What happened to the NBA big man? | NBA Countdown
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Jackie MacMullan chats with Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, DeAndre Jordan, Kevin Love, Shaquille O'Neal, Marc Gasol, Mark Cuban, Roy Hibbert, Charles Barkley and Joel Embiid to discuss the evolution of the NBA big man, from a post-up-heavy emphasis to today's focus on 3-point shooting.
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![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
*Victims of the Modern NBA*
Al Jefferson
Roy Hibbert
Jahlil Okafor
Greg Monroe
thelegendsqb1 Ben Simmons, Joel Embiid, deandre Ayton, Andre drummond, Blake griffin, Demar derozan, Dwight Howard, jabari Parker, Carmelo Anthony, John wall, russel Westbrook, Derrick rose, Dennis Smith jr, etc all better fit for the previous 3 decades styles of play.
CPGoat #3 I would throw in guys like Ivica Zubac, Hassan Whiteside, Steven Adams, Enes Kanter, and Boban Marjanovic as big men who would thrive in the old days.
Jefferson, Hibbert, Monroe never had a good enough offensive game.. maybe Jefferson at one point... Okafor doesn't wanna play big.. if he posted up 90% of the time teams would have to adjust.. he doesn't tho. He likes his 3's and jumpers too much.
Okafor would’ve been a star in the 90s he’s a postup powerhouse
@@TheIcemanthomas Drummond would be a beast in the 90s/00s fr
When shaq said i wish spud webb woulda switched out on me i laughed. 😂😂😂😂
Barbecue chicken
Shaqtin a fool 😂😂😂
Ain't no one switching when you can't shoot
Yomali Martinez ur dumb
Switch anybody below the 4 onto Shaq & it's easy buckets ik its a new era but u can act like u forgot if u want to there's a reason hes still considered the most dominant center ever
But when the world needed them the most, they vanished - Avatar
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The NBA created rules to open the paint.
6:14 R. Hibbert did have a point back then kids that where tall was only held to certain drills because of there height that wasn’t right messes up developing there full potential
Y T yes I agree, it’s disrespectful
Alot of high school guys who were 6'4" to 6'8" but just happened to be the tallest guys at their school had their potential diminished in this way if they failed to hit a second growth spurt.
FighterCK That’s not on the school or the coach. That’s on the player. You can only go as far as you are willing to work.
Every guy on my high school teams, had the opportunity to take the same extra drills, play in the summer camps, and work out after practice.
Only the ones who made it their priority, and sacrificed other stuff like partying, make anything out of sports.
I only made a D2 school, but it got me free university, and no student loans to pay off.
Doctor Cthulhu it’s easier to get better as a guard, they weigh 30/80 lbs less
GodAgainstMe__ Your weight has nothing to do with an ability to get better, unless you’re not eating properly and you are at an unhealthy weight for your size; like Shaq was after 2003.
Even height has nothing to do with it. There are tons of 6’6” to 6’11” guys who can run a 4.4 to 5 second 40. That’s all due to their hard work and sacrifice.
The foot speed and athleticism you need to run like that, could have any PF/C running the point, like 6’10” Ben Simmons, or 7’ Greek Freak. As long as you also worked on your ball handling and other skills.
When Shaq said, “I am playing today...my name’s Greek Freak” I got chills
Shaq took slim fast
Me too man #34
I cried 😭
But even Greek Greek shooting 3's now too.He's not that great at it , but he takes them.
Shaq wouldn't be able to shoot in today's NBA. His hands are way too big. Shaq would be still dominant offensively but would be somewhat less effective on defense bc centers would be running back to shoot 3s.
I think Shaq would average more ppg if the coach would use him right in today's NBA.
The Golden State Warriors murdered the Center position
BiG NeL so what happen again the cavaliers 2016 & the raptors 2019
No they didn't. It's all in your head
Stay off the crack
Nah it wasn’t them at all. The three second rule happened.
@@mackmittens313 3 second rule was part of it, and the fact theres less 7+feet tall guys, that means less centers and probably less skilled ones compared to the hordes of 6foot tall players in all basketball leagues, the 3pt line affected them and then bringing the 3pt line in closer nullified the center position a bit more. Its basically been a few factors some from rule changes that had a side effect of making a specific position less valuable.
I miss Duncan, nowitski, shaq, prime Dwight, Bosh, and all those guys..
Duncan, Bosh and Dirk would be even better this era.
Why everybody sleep on Stoudemire?
Masco 24 far from sleep he was just injury prone and his teams to the chip. Plus he just slipped my mind fr. I love Amare
Masco 24 his teams never got to the chip*
KG?
Deandre idolized some skilled players but never showed any offensive skill his whole career.
LoftyXsWaGX34 ^^^ Brandon Knight approves this message
Peezzy Yhm LOL
He should have said Stromile Swift
I idolize some of the greatest players also, but i don't know how to play basketball.
LoftyXsWaGX34 right 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This is great content ESPN! IM sure it took a while to produce but we want more of this.
also as a fan, I agree with this. Analytics are killing the fan experience in some ways. The games your team doesn't shoot the 3 ball well are miserable to watch.
Facts ESPN been bs'ing their content but this gives me faith in their production department.
Think about it like video games, the playstyle when the game first comes out is different from the playstyle 3 years later. People find more effective ways to play the game, I understand fans may not like it but people will do what ever it takes to win. Change and adapt, or run the risk of falling behind the meta.
@@Ghostkiller__166 the problem is sports are entertainment first. If fans don't watch the NBA makes no money. This is the case when a team sucks for so long that they lose their fan base and move cities
@@RipleyJ they will always make millions, they make a bunch off of sponsorships, and fan base will never decrease enough to affect them.
@@Ghostkiller__166 this isn't subjective. This is fact. Google all the pro North American teams that have relocated due to bankruptcy. Google before reply with opinion as fact
It's amazing that these NBA teams don't realize: The post up doesn't have to end in a dribble, dribble, hook shot. It's an effective way to initiate offence--especially if the post player has great IQ to spot cutters and drifting defenders for open threes. BBallBreakdown recently did a great video on the topic of post play.
ala Jokic
Exactly...you can always work inside out. They dont even fight for post position anymore.
Wing players have become way more of an offensive weapon than big men. That's why. You feed the post all night you're going to get all your wings outa rythem. You can have 2 dominant perimeter players but not 2 dominant down low
@@lekzintshering7666 jokic is trash this year
@Slime Bishop wasn't translating to wins
It's cute.
~Shaq
Soft rules is what happened.
Exactly!
Completely right
soft rules is why center do less post-up? what? doesn't "soft rules" means "more defensive fouls"?
In that case, attacking the paint should be more rewarding. (I mean it's also easy to get fouls for shooting...but my point is softer rule doesn't necessarily reward shooting more than attacking the paint).
I think it's pretty obvious that {allowing zone defensive} is why spacing is so much more important. If a team has bad shooting, the defensing team just need to clog the paint and zone out any drive attempt or post-up attempt. With zone defensive (nowadays basketball), shooting and spacing is so important. Without zone defense (pre-2000 basketball), players has to 1 on 1 or double team...they are not allow to just clog the paint and zone.
soft rules would mean bigger, stronger players would dominate inside MORE not LESS.
Soft rules would make centers more effective, not less. They'd get more foul calls. What really happened is your dirk, kevin garnett, kevin Durant came along and they were more skilled with the ball and they dont want to post up
Because fans and media fell in love with crossover, dunks, and 3s. So they made rules to favor guards because fans cant emulate a 7fter
Steph Curry change the league in this error and the hand checking rule
@@pinbarbecue1100 have you watch that video ? Shaq said the more he dominated inside the more he watched big man starting to spread the floors ....
Iverson had better chance to score if the center was at the 3 points line ... who was that kid who grew up in the 2000 and wanted to play like a center instead of Kobe Iverson d Wade LeBron ...
Roy Hibbert said coaching staff tell him posting was inefficient ...that was before the warriors was successful. And yet you repeat that narrative" Steph curry change the NBA "
Go watch 2013 and 2014 NBA final
And tell me why San Antonio was taking so many 3 points
Stefone D the league was changing well before curry. The center position started dying off around 06.
False very false
Wilt to Jordan, "When I played they changed the rules to make it harder for me. Now they've changed them to make it easier for you."
5:34 Thank you for being Charles Barkley 😂😂😂😂
💯💯💯
7 foot dummies 😂
Facts
Tim Duncan is the last traditional big man to win MVP.
Last traditional big man and Shaq was the last traditional Center (Duncan mainly played the 4 during his MVP seasons)
Duncan played center for most of his MVP seasons. Robinson was relegated and Malik Rose was playing the 4.
Tim both PF/C
The last traditional big man to win MVP was Kevin Garnett in 2004.
@@marcbibanga5601 nah Tim was listed as the 4 in his MVP run. He played some 5 but his main position was the 4....
Please show me who's making 50% of their 3's...
Fo real Cuban just talking nonsense again smh
George hill
G hill
George Hill making 52% of his 3s
Okay, then who is making 60% on post-ups? Jaylen Brown has the highest points per attempts on post-ups at 1.32 PPA, on a very low number of post-up attempts. That translates to 44% on 3PA. Embiid scores 1.12 PPA on post-ups at the second highest rate in the league, Aldridge 0.90PPA on the third most, that translates to 37% from three for a player to be more efficient than Embiid (just above league average from three to score more efficiently one of the most dominant bigs of the decade) or 30% from three to be a more valuable shot than Aldridge's post-ups.
Conversely, Harden is scoring 1.19 PPA on isolations at a crazy high rate.
Think about a dude like KAT. He has all the moves to be a very effective low post player...but he shoots 43% from three. That's effectively 65-ish% from two. That's more efficient scoring than Shaq ever had and every basketball fan knows he is one of the two or three most physically dominant dudes in history.
A 50% 3 point shooter is equivalent to a 75% 2 point shooter, 40% 3 point shooter to a 60% 2 pt shooter, 35.4% from 3 (league average) to 52.1% from 2, etc.
Math is a cool thing.
The white kid who couldn't play ,now has a job in the nba as a analytics expert, that's what happened
You know, back in the mid-90's, two of the biggest three-point shooting teams were the Magic and the Rockets. They used their dominant centers to command attention from defenses and work inside-out to get more three opportunities. You can still do that today, it's just that today's bigs don't have a lot of skill in the low block, thus making post-ups inefficient.
In short, it's not that post-ups are bad, it's that players have become inept at post-ups and can no longer leverage those for either easy baskets or three-point attempts.
No defense and soft rules have changed the game
Fans and the old nba guys always over look illegal defense. Back then you couldn’t help off your man unless you were fully committing to double teaming the ball. Shaq and other great bigs often played one on one with no sagging, or zone and clearly defined double teams. For as hard as we are on modern defense, it has legalized zone defense and help defense modern post players see much more sophisticated coverages than those of the 80s and 90s
Ik what ur saying but comparing the old time and now its become less intense less interesting to watch the whole game and boring
LeeTravius Mckay Ben Wallace and Walt Chamberlain approve this message!
@LeeTravius Mckay exactly i agree wit ur comment
LeeTravius Mckay softer rules that favor the offensive player for sure but No defense? I disagree because defenses have gotten smarter and more complicated actually
Quick answer: Dirk
He was so far ahead of his time.
Yep Dirk started it and GS ended the C/PF position
@@baskeplaye009 I don't understand why people say c and Pf are dead? Like bruh they need all players to be good, you can't say a position is useless, pay them min and don't expect the opponent to use it as an advantage. Why does everyone say that?
@@diegosmurillo Basically because what a C and PF represents disappeared.
A PG runs the ball
A SG is meant to be a scorer
A SF is an all-around
A PF and C play with their backs facing the basket and usually play under the basket.
Those are the Actual roles for each position.
Now a days PF and C are playing similar to the SF, SG and sometimes like a PG rather than playing how the PF and C position are meant to be played. So since C and PF play like a SF, SG or PG now a days and not like the traditional PF/C you can say that those positions are dead since no one is playing those position the way is meant to be played.
But do not forget
80% of Dirk's points came from the POST!!!!!!(POST FADEAWAY).
Even then, Dirk was still traditionally a post player 1st. He just had the range in his arsenal as well, but Dirk made his living in the post to mid range
I think similar to how the 49ers and Ravens have dominated the NFL this year with a power running/strong defensive style and completely swinging the pendulum from the air raid style offense, I think NBA teams will become so dependent and predictable strictly hunting 3's and free throws that in a few years a teams gonna come along with all big guys who can defend and score in the post and dominate.... mark my words!!!!
100% fact.
Perfectly said
Philly tried that this year and guess what happened??? 6th in the east 😂😂😂
@@groovygrumpig I would agree but no.... Ben Simmons. Too many conflicting playing styles
Remember the Lakers with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol. A team like that would destroy these small teams today. The problem is that guys like Shaq, Pau and Duncan are rare. Let's see what happens with Taco Fall. Taco is proof that people still want to see the big guys.
Shaq to spud webb: I've eaten burritos bigger than you 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If Joel was put in the post more he would be the most dominant centre in the game no cap
Embiid is soft is the problem he actively avoids the post as much as possible.
The center has always been my favorite position. My all-time favorite player is Hakeem Olajuwon because of his post moves. I'm really disappointed that the center position has basically disappeared.
Ngl I'm pretty sure the '15 Warriors murdered the entire concept of the post lol.
Steph curry happened lol
This is true, it actually started with D Rose and AI, AI was the most marketable player it super hard to sell big man because they are unrelatable to most people but everyone thinks they can be an small pg all they need is to buy the shoos. The analytics that kill the big man is market research
nah hes a little man
Right!!!! Let’s not forget about that pace. Big men dominating the paint is cool but would take more time in the possession, and they would lose to the fast 3 point
@@dedauphin4347 what? Steph is a little man this does not apply with him. Little dudes always shot threes.
More like the Warriors small ball Hampton 5s lineup. They were outrunning and outgunning opposing teams that the hulking big man couldn’t stay on the floor.
Quick fix: bring back hand-checking
That won’t help that much for bigs
N remove zone defense n bring back illegal defense n watch james harden average 50
CPGoat #3 it would make perimeter play less efficient, and thus encourage teams to incorporate more post play.
Exactly..just that one rule..that's the one I want brought back the most
@@TheIcemanthomas Of course it will help bigs. No easy shots from the perimeter anymore, teams will look inside for easy points. Outlawing the hand-check changed the game from big man (paint) dominant to small man (shooter) dominant.
When I saw Mark Cuban my head started spinning with maths 🧮
We don’t talk about Shaq’s athleticism enough. To be as big as he was and to do the things he was able to do is completely remarkable
Prophecy Gaming Obviously but still, Shaq came into the league hovering around 300 lbs and to get off the floor as quickly as he did is mind blowing
Basketball is plane ugly to watch now I still love it but it’s ugly
For real its not the same 90s was the best
Giannis is the craziest thing I've seen since LeBron
6:23 one of the greatest sentences i've heard in basketball
The NBA went Euro, which essentially caused soup kitchens for 7 footers
Big man are so skilled and well rounded today. Guys like Patrick Ewing are no match for them. We should be happy that we can watch all this great players today and ballers became that much better.
That last thing hibbert said is true. My brother is 6’3 and was always kind of tall so they wanted to put as a center but I always would tell the coach to let him handle the ball. Now in high school he’s a 6’3 shooting guard. Imagine growing up he never learned to dribble ? 6’3 is no where near close to being center
"The big tough guy is a dinosaur. The future belongs to the smart guy." - Mike Tyson
nba wanted a more european approach. It leads to high scores and 3pt shooting. I honestly didnt like the 80 pt games of the pacers and Pistons in the early 00s but it was better defense etc It would be one thing if the league average was 40 percent. But its near 35 i Believe. Toronto just shot more 3s then 2s the other day. 6 of 41. wo wants to see that>?
Start mentioning Moses Malone along with Russell, Chamberlain and Jabbar.
MARC D. Shaq and Hakeem were better than Russell and Chamberlain. Those two just had the luxury of being the two biggest dudes in a 10 team league
MARC D. Disrespectful. Moses, Shaq, and Hakeem are every bit as good as chief dipper and cap. U buggin.
Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Shaquille O'Neal are the best centers of all time!!! That is because Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain have become a myth and a legend with their stats and accomplishments... No one will ever be even close to what they accomplished... As for me... Kareem Abdul Jabaar is the 🐐 center... I have spoken...
Jason Barnes the fact you said Karl malone is a center tells me everything I need to know
@@Sam-oe4dt I know that he's considered a power forward you genius... But his game and dominance during his prime years came from his unstoppable post game and pick&roll... In my eyes that's center skillset... I can't put the Mailman next to Dirk, KG and TD, if you understand what I'm saying...
4:24 That statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Offensive rebounds have PLUMMETED in today's era, and was limited to a single digit league average for the very first time in 2018.
jp3813 That’s What one of the analytics guys told him; those weren’t his words lol
@@Thanosdidtherighthing Never said it was his.
Very interesting that Olajuwon wasn't mentioned in this piece. He abused the likes of Ewing and Shaq with a quicker and smarter postup play style. You can see that legacy in the games of centers like AD and Embiid. More a 4 than 5. I think he was the vanguard in terms of this evolution away from traditional bigs.
@1:07
the video is so chilling and thrilling until A.smith appear
Nikola Jokic gets majority of his pints in the paint, bully ball.
Well purely traditional center play style is incredibly inefficient in today's NBA, but it doesn't mean it has to die off completely. A good example is Embiid who's setting the example on how the center should play in today NBA. Dominant in the paint and contributing enough behind the arc. I would be surprised if Embiid doesn't win at least one MVP in his career.
If guys like Olajuwon Shaq and Robinson played today they would legitimately average 35 and 15 with ease. The game is such a joke now.
They are not giannis problem is the game and pace are so high now that shaq would not be able to play more than 20 max he would be so tired that even his post game would suffer its simple
they wouldnt lol by the time shaq goes to the other side of the court the other team is switching on defense after the oppsing team just shot a 3 lmfao sit down kid
@@nonanimeprofilepic seeing how Joel Embiid can get down the court himself, and this era would probably make Shaq become the Orlando magic Shaq then, he's not wrong. And his post game wouldn't suffer because he himself would make the defense tired of guarding him.
I think Kevin Garnett started it, he was the first player to be able to use his speed and agility to his advantage while being 7ft tall. He sometimes played the small forward position back in the day which now you think about it is crazy. He was a midrange god doing stepback jumpers. Then Nowitzki came another 7footer, who wasnt that athletic but dominates the 3 point line
i feel like some teams and "analytic guys" do a bad job of understanding their players strengths and weaknesses. its like theyre trying to turn joel embiid into kevin durant instead of letting joel embiid use his own natural advantages as a post players. for the legitimately great 3 pt shooting big men, like durant and KAT, it makes sense to have them shoot a lot of 3s. but whenever joel embiid (33% from 3) and anthony davis (30% from 3) shoot a 3, theyre just being a mediocre offense player in that possession, when they could instead be a dominant player in the post.
like if olajuwon played today he wouldnt be settling for being a medicore 3 pt shooter, he would instead be going to the post and dominating and also get to the free throw line constantly.
33% or higher is viewed as effective because you go 6/18 from 3pt that's 18 pts you shoot 50% from 2pt range 9/18 that's 18pts. And yes I agree they do a bad job it doesn't always properly apply like in playoffs if LeBron had Jordan's or kobes mid range game he would be 6-3 or 7-2 in finals.
@@resColts i looked it up and right now joel embiid is shooting 52% for 2 pointers, so its technically slightly more efficient than his 3 pt shot right now. but I think the big difference is that hes gonna draw a lot more fouls going to the rim than he will taking 3s. most players, especially big men like embiid, arent gonna draw many fouls shooting 3s. there can be so much added efficiency from going to the line and also putting the other team's players in foul trouble can be huge but i feel like the analytic people never bring that up.
@@mvpmvp2980 yeah I agree I'm just using an example of how most likely these analytic guys are coming to these conclusions.
... here we go... the reason bigs are out there, is not to make the 3, its to be a threat from the outside and move the defender away from the basket. You ain`t gonna leave Embiid or AD completely open on the 3... you have to guard them. So lets say someone like Rudy or KP who are great shot blockers are guarding the rim... and the play is for the guard to cut to the basket. All thats gonna happen is they will get their shot blocked. But if the big with a 3pt shot is on the outside - the defender has to leave his spot and make room for cuts. Thats why Porzingis is playing on the 3 so much, because it opens up room for Doncic to cut to the basket. If a big doesnt go out to guard KP he will swish the 3pt. If somebody slow comes to guard him, he goes past him with a dribble.... from which stuff like alley-ups to other bigs... passes to an open player.. or dunks can happen. Those plays have much higher chance to be effective. No matter how much Embiid or Davis would push with their backs to the basket, there are plenty of players who can stop them. Even the freak can be stopped when he has no momentum.
@@mvpmvp2980 he takes three to bait the players so that he can drive unfortunately lol people are not falling
Wished they showed more Alonzo Mourning clips when he was a Hornet. I think he was at his most dominating while in Charlotte.
Some sports Geek who NEVER played basketball sitting behind a computer destroyed the Center position...Analytics...NUMBERS DO LIE...Bring Back the POST. It's beautiful basketball
Tacko fall is our final hope
no,drummond and abedayo,both double double monsters
@@noitsnot239 and capela
@@ericthibodeau6821 13 pts 14 rebounds,yeah
Yes that's definitely true. But however unless the Celtics are willing to trade him to another team I seriously doubt they're going to allow him to be a dominant actor on the Celtics team
Look at Anthony Davis.Chet Holdrem. Those guys have old school type NBA playing styles.
Everyone wants to play like Steph Curry 🤷🏾♂️
Of course they do he's the best shooter to have ever played in the nba
Someone will be the savior. 2030. Dude will be 7’5 320 and fastttttttt, there will be another genetic freak at center
Yeah. Combined with passing of Jokic and shooting/handles of durant
Less physicality and more 3s and less emphasize on defense
What Happened Was Shaq Changed The League And Forced The NBA To Change The Rules. Now You have Quick, Nimble, Fast Ball Handling Players Shooting 3's. Eventually It Will Turn Into A 3 Point Shooting Game, And Force The NBA To Change The Rules Again. Shaq Is The GOAT
Vote Bam adebayo to the all-star game even Chuck and Shaq agree. Bam is helping leading his Heat team with the second highest record in the east and playing lights out defensively. He has wins over players like Joel embiid, Pascal siakam, Myles Turner, sabonis, Drummond, Rudy gobert antetokounmpo and much more.
Bam is playing like a traditional big. Guys like him & Montrezz Harell play like traditional bigs in the paint but they know how to adjust. When Bam gets the ball in the post his first option is to pass to the open cutter or shooter before he scores & a lot of the time cuts to the rim or scores from pick & roll. Montrezz is kinda the same way except the passing, he takes off the dribble & even when post up their quick moves. In today's NBA, u can still post up but u cant do too many moves in the post, u just faceup & do a quick move. Joel Embiid has stopped using hook shots & dream shake pivot moves & even Melo stopped using the jabstep. Teams feel if u spend too much time in the post your hurting spacing in this era of the NBA
@Notorious W.I.D.E tacko fall? he cant even get a double doubld yet a back to back triple double
Seeing Embiid, Jokic, KAT, being not a MVP contenders. I gonna agree with Shaq,Barkley, and Stephen A that Big Centers must go to the low post more.
If you will rank a top 5 or even top 10 centers of all time , most(if not all) are all low post or inside players. (Hakeem,Shaq,Kareem,Ewing,Robinson, Wilt,Russell, Mikan, etc)
It is cool for a center to have range in the 3 point area. But not to the point they will take 10 to 12 threes a game. Maybe 3-4 attempts will do.
Ps: Anthony Davis and Giannis Antetokoumpo are not centers, they are power forwards.
"I'm big, man. And I don't turn my back to the basket - not even on defense."
Lebron James, 2016-2019
You gotta see the rim to score and the floor to create
🤣🤣🤣
3 words.. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Top 10 NBA GOATs Kareem and Hakeem barely mentioned. Where was Robinson? What about the first post up/3 pt shooting elite big man Rasheed Wallace? Very suspect ESPN! 🤔
I strongly believe the Cavs could've won more championships if Kevin Love stayed with his post-up game
I think if he stayed healthy they win 2015 and 2016. But when KD went to GSW, Cavs wouldve been outmatched
Blame lebum and le stat pad and le dribble and kick
How does this video not mention the rule changes in 2001? That's when the NBA legalized the zone defense and made it more difficult to post up. Back in the day, you couldn't zone up on anyone. It was pure one-on-one defense or a hard double team, both of which benefited post and wing players on isolations. That's THE biggest reason why it's inefficient to post-up today and why you don't see it as much. You have to shoot from the outside when they overload the ball side with extra defenders or go in pick and roll. So it's not a matter of centers disappearing. It's a matter of centers adapting if they want to stay in the league.
Steph erased it. Roy Hibbert took LeBum and his superteam to 7 games in 2013 and now he’s a twitch streamer.
he never developed anything. hes a streamer cuz he sucked
He really does twitch?
What happened? Mike D'antoni happened. Playing Shawn Marion a 3 as a stretch 4 shooting 3's and Amar'e a 4 at the 5 changed everything. Phoenix was winning 60 games and getting to the conference finals without playing an actual center. The rest of the league followed suit. The modern NBA has all been about copiying D'antoni. He was the 1st guy talking about points per possesion, the value of the 3 over post-ups and stuff like that. Kinda irresponsible to talk about what happened to the NBA big man and not bring Mike D'antoni up.
Kelly Oubre trying to dunk on Shaq😂 ... out for the rest of the season
Yes kids, The ABA killed the NBA big man. When the ABA died it injected the NBA with a few teams... But more importantly the NBA took the 3pt shot as it's own. And thus the normal NBA big man began to become extinct.
It took quite a while before the poison took effect. But, when (no) D'Antoni began his 3's or layups revolution the statistics began to prove that shooting Way more 3's just makes sense. Any average 3pt shooter can have more effect on the game than nearly any post scorer. 33.33333% shooting from the 3pt line is the same as shooting 50% from 2pt land. You see! An average 3pt shooter will score more than any great center if they take the same amount of shots.
So, that's it! Unless they put the 3pt line further out, the post up Big Man is dead.
Roy Hibbert, player development specialist? This guy couldnt develop himself as a player...
howard mighty he developed himself into an All Star and All Defensive player so he clearly didn’t do that badly (he just played too passive and the game outgrew his style
@@dayoungsta94 he's trash..
Although Giannis has brolic physique, he’s not a traditional back to the basket big man. His style is new era hybrid jack of all trades type repertoire. So yes Shaq was the last traditional dominant “big man” an Tim Duncan was the last traditional fundamentally sound “big man”, that started adapting his game to fit the new NBA.; simple.
Rule changes is why smaller guys were dominant! Even 4 u youngsters, look at the beginning of this tape u would see the difference of aggression back then
Quite simple reason: rule changes. Zone defense is allowed now, 5 second back to the basket (thank Barkley on that one, he would back up guys for 10 sec straight). Hand-checking is not allowed anymore. When you breathe on a three-pointer shooter it's a foul but if you hit a guy in the post it's ok. I don't get why the former players can't at least acknowledge that.
Man, i miss the days when basketball had domiant big men.
Zenigundam 😂😂 while you give a straight forward male perspective on this. The game changed for a faster game for the offense. The big 7 flat footers slowed down the game. There was always 6 or 7 top centers in the league and the rest average.
Shaq most unstoppable force any sport has ever seen... RIP bigman
@@RobbieStacks90 oldest gen z is 20 and not yet established in most major sports leagues but ok
Boomer
@@robertlong6 rodman and wallace locked him down man, rodman is 6'7
The NBA abolished hand checking for 3 point shooters and passers! It easy to make triple double bec of the removal of that part of defense! Stat padding at finest of todays lgbt players.
Math killed the center position.
3 > 2
Stop complaining and get better you tall lanky SoB’s.
The rules are different and the game is much faster now. I also really liked the slow big man game.
But some of these legends should stop with their bashing of the "new" nba. They have done great thinks in the past but now other players and skillets took over.
So please don't continue that really old man philosophy of in the past everything was better, now everyone is soft, nowadays they playing with baby rules,....
You are grown man with a lot of accomplishments. Please there are other ways to show the younger audience how great you've been.
Unless you’re putting up 23 points on 70% shooting I doubt the coach will even let you post up
Shaq against these small centers would easily average 70% field goal percentage
Pretty much unless the effiency is off the charts
Lucifer Luci Shaq is getting doubled and tripled literally everytime he gets touches down low. Hack a Shaq would be employed probably even more often
Tod Wilkinson even at 70%, the post-up would lose against 10-20. math is not that difficult
Tod Wilkinson 50% on 2s equals 33% on three‘s per possession which is well below the league average. therefore, they shoot threes.
Why do people forget how dominant Shaq was. Not Shaq who played too long but Magic and Lakers Shaq
The realest commentary was sir Charles. Just because Dirk and KD should do it doesn't mean you should. If you're not shooting close to 40% or more quit chucking up 3s.
a cox Bro chill, 40%😂😂 Steph Curry averages 43% for his career, and is considered the best 3 point shooter in HISTORY. You setting that bar a little too high there buddy
@@BrownPatriot316 I am averaging
70-80 % from theee as a 6'11 Pf/C. But I also post up a lot. And average a ton of assists.
Yes. I do that in 2k😂😂😂😂
Get another Orlando shaq like player you will soon see who you think is strong and who isn't he avg 40 honestly ben wallace would easily avg 30 today I watched that man go toe to toe with Prime 350 shaq at 6 9 250 and not only compete he down right made shaq look weak this Analytics is cool but I look at the rockets and wonder so james Harden dribbling 50 times before he shoots is efficient there is a reason why a dominate post player was the most important position to draft for 140 years itd one of those things where if it aint broke dont fix it
The NBA is a reflection of society today. Dudes are soft these days. Nobody wanna bang heads anymore. Everybody gets a hug and a trophy.
The way the NBA is played now every team plays the same way just some more effective than others based off personal....its boring to watch.
Man I the 90s and early 2000s when you could hand check and foul
And this is why Lucca off mags gets too much credit. He wouldnt be doing that in that era
LeeTravius Mckay
You couldn’t foul back then, but okay.
Yeah whatever dude, Jordan the small guy 6'6 dominated that 90s era, not Hakeem or Barkley or other big men.
2000 too with Kobe. And Kobe is even a smaller guy than Jordan, on the NBA he's listed as 6'6 but Kobe himself stated that he's only 6'4.
His wife also confirmed the same thing.
Brock McClain
Lol you’re wrong on so many levels. Kobe Bryant is not 6’4”. Gtfo for reals.
Yeah I miss those paint clogging, non shooting slugfests.
It’s not that the big man went out it’s just the big men started doing worse or putting less effort in as the littler men came in, If Joel Embid put the effort in or KAT there would be insane 🤷♂️Joel Embid is the only person I see be capable and to stop the greak freak 😂
Analytics has destroyed the game. Math nerds who have never even played telling owners what to do.
You mad they figured out the best way to play? Go ahead and put a traditional team with post up 4 and 5s. They gonna get run out the building
@@TeacherGary - I'd take Jordan's Bulls or Shaq and Kobe's Lakers against any modern team you want and they'd eat you for breakfast.
🎯
@@TeacherGary The 3pt contest NBA is losing money. If I wanted to see jacked up 3s I'd go to a local gym.
@@TeacherGary Fact is they haven't - they're all simpletons who came up with a basic conclusion lol
The 3 ball has killed basketball no defense or big man anymore! NBA has changed big time in the past 10 years heck 20 years if you think about it
Centers still in they feelings about this lol like wake up, the NBA has evolved.
Wilt would murder everyone today
You mean it's regressed into being no different than the Harlem Globetrotters.
@@therumbleinthejunglee but would still lose to a 6'8 lebron in the perimeter or a 6'3 steph curry
@@TheHKZero no. You tried.
@@IllMatic97 Nah, i didn't. When people are shooting from 45ft, flopping around like fish and taking 8 steps with the ball the game is indistinguishable from the Globetrotters.
Trust me Fans of the 80`s and 90`s ....this era of ball will come to a end ...no one wants to see 5 guys shooting 3 pointers the whole game..its like watching a game of horse
Cuz the league is soft and the "big" guys are even more soft especially KAT
Today's big men just aren't as good as the big men of yesteryear. The only exceptions are Giannis and AD, and they dominate the post.
*Barkley keeps it 💯 24/7*
I think they should move the 3 point line further back to 25 feet. Decrease the value of the 3 point shot, and increase the value of the 2.
Did anyone ever find out what happened to the Center ?🤔
Its cyclical. Post players will be back soon.
Remove the 3 seconds rule. Or make it 4 seconds. Traditional Low post players will dominate again like Wilt.
Sadly, they make the rules favored perimeter players.
I love Jordan. But Nba made rules ro stop Wilt. Nba made rules to favored Michael Jordan.
If Jordan played in 1960- 1970s, he will lost against Wilt and Bill Russell. Because the rules doesnt favor him yet back then.
Ps: I still consider Michael Jordan as the Goat. But stating some valid points.
can someone tell me what would be more efficient in todays game. Having a big that can score like
Charles Barkley
23ppg
14.6rpg
5.7 orpg
.594FG%
Or Steph Curry
23.8ppg
7.7 apg
.487 fg%
.443 3pt%
And b4 people say bigs would be done because of zones. Barkley was great at passing out of double teams when the help comes. Also, you cant double theirs 3 point shooters everywhere on the perimeter. Also, he could take a shot b4 for the help even gets their. If he takes a fadeaway away from the help defense side.
@@KISS_MY_CONVERSE
Depends on the team. Post players need shooters to complement their game. Shooters need good rebounders to complement their games.
But to answer your question, post inside dominant players would be more efficient. Imagine shaq or barkley or hakeem or kareem play in this era.
What happened to the big man in the nba umm.. steph Curry 😂
They’re down because of the rules are so guard heavy and bigs can’t punish people like they used to.
There really is no better way to explain it.
“the post up game is on life support”
They act like big men today still don't guard the paint and get physical. Modern day centere just know how to shoot threes cuz in certain situations it can be a disadvantage to clog the paint.
i like how hibbert said that when his son do plays basketball, he will tell coaches to train home all the skills and not just drills for a certain position in the game.
3s not only ruined the nba but ruined 2k aswell...everybody wanna be like curry
He has skill now unlike 50% FT shooters shaq and wilt chamberlain
the dominate big man vanished because of the zone defence. if they bring back the man to man defence and illegal defence not only it will bring back the dominant center and the game will be more exciting.
The 3 point shot destroyed Kevin Love
I'm a Lebron fan but lebron destroyed kevin love.
@@jqa16 Yet he been gone 2 years and KL is still destroyed
I think people don't realize that the top center in the 90's developed an all-around game not just post-up. They are physically strong, can run, defend other bulky guys, shoot mid-range jumpers, rebound, interior defense. It's not all post-up if you watch players like olajuwon, barkley, robinson, ewing in the 90's.