Deltarune chapter 2 is still stuck in my brain, and every year I wish toby had waited to release the full game instead of this agonising wait between chapters. I am lucky in that the chapters do seem to come out around my birthday month in september, so i'm hoping the next update comes out then in 2024
Yeah I could tell because of covid he wanted to put something out and then it became a big thing and maybe he felt he would have every chapter done every year. But I'm glad he's taking some time to put multiple chapters out at once omg I can't wait
I actually feel the opposite. The excitement of waiting for a new chapters + the amount of fan content that gets born from the interval + the shorter gaps of waiting for something to release are super strong pros
Nah I couldn't wait 2018-2030, I'm glad he released chapter 2 in 2021, and it's not like he's rushing it or delaying anything at all, hes just working on it so it wouldn't change anything in the end, chapter 3 and 4 are gonna release together in 2024 prob while chapter 5 also probably comes as it's own chapter separately from 6 and 7 (and yes 3 and 4 comes separately from 5, Toby did this because it took longer than expected)
I just think he should release them one at a time rather than waiting for 3 and 4 together. He basically said that Chapter 3 is finished, he could release it now, but for some reason he wants to wait to do 3 and 4 together.
@@Sylvia_Corvidev Yes, because Toby stated that chapter 3 will be less lore relevant than other chapters and he wants to charge the money for the releases past chapter 2. It's nice of him to try to make release worth its price.
6:54 Another consequence is that Noelle also becomes more assertive in the real world in Snowgrave than in the Normal Route. To what extent this is, we don't know yet. But we do know that presumably she was alot more... "forward"...with her feelings with Susie when you come across her room on your journey through Queen's castle. If Susie's reaction is any indication, Noelle might've worked up the nerve to do whatever warranted Susie to get flustered enough to want not talk about it at the time. If I remember correctly, she's also more outspoken. She straight up asked Susie in the Weird Route whether or not she had a tail, and in the regular route she tried to subtlety look and see if she had one before being called out by Susie.
Yeah! I think that definitely falls under changes that were made to characters but the end point is the same. I'm curious to see if that level of assertiveness from the weird route gets kept up or if she'll default back to regular her from the normal route!
3:49 Actually, the interesting part of the Spamton fight is how much Kris themselves wanted to help Spamton. You'll notice they (not we) ask Susie and Ralsei three times to stay away from the shop/the basement and let them go alone. So I actually think this is just another instance of goals aligning even if they didn't like the outcome.
Tbh I think the “one ending” might just be Kris casting us out of them and the both of us having to live with what we’ve made them and everyone else do, whether it be good or bad, and us being unable to see the results of what we’ve done. I can see the end being really vague as to what we think Kris is going to do next, like, them saying goodbye to Susie and going inside their house (specifically the “see you tomorrow.” Susie Sticker), but we can’t follow them inside anymore, so we’re going to just have to let them go and do their own thing like a parent letting their child have their own agency and not being over their shoulder all the time, but in a more ‘Toby Fox meta narrative’ kinda way.
I like that! The ending stays vague even if we do all the "good" things. Maybe it'll be for Kris to learn how to be themselves again. We aren't needed anymore :)
@@AlleyDreamer Or maybe our discarded vessel comes back and gets to be our player character, We could interact with kris as a separate entity, And they'd wonder what's up with us, Maybe gradually put it together that we're the soul, I feel like that'd be cool. On a side note, I'm surprised there aren't many fangames out there that use the discarded vessel as a player, So much potential in the personality-less entity.
@@TJ-hg6op Maybe not hang out with them, I'd assume they'd go on their own journey to stop the knight, Meeting THE LANCER FAN CLUB every now and again. As the gang would seal fountains, The vessel would hunt down the knight.
something about the "Old Player" Theory, there's soemthing curious about the code itself, there seems to be slots for chapter from 0 to 8, even tho 0 could just be a placeholder so the game won't crash in Chapter 1, there might be a hint that the world might reset and possibly going into a loop in our perspective, since in the files there's 2 particular songs named "W" and "D" from Chapter 1 and 2 respectively, and if there's like 8 chapters, it could fit perfectly with the name WDGASTER, and you know what happen to the game when the name is called when we name our Vessel. (also i believe that Chapter 5 will be a fake ending, but that's for another story) about the One ending, this could be just like Steins;Gate, where even if there are variations on each worldline, they all still lead to the same destiny in the major side of events. (like for example, even when in both worldlines you have your friends or not, or even if the whole city is changed, in both WW3 will happen) so the timeline of Deltarune could be the same, no matter what we do, there will be 1 ending in the mayor side of events, while the choices we made, both the context of the ending and the feeling will be different.
Thanks for the details about the files! It's the one thing I know like nothing about because I have no idea how to find that stuff 😭 but definitely interested in the steins;gate theory it sounds cool!
So glad im not the only one who has returned to their deltarune hyperfixation 😭 ive been a fan for three years now and literally just days ago my brain decides to start thinking about nothing else but deltarune
2:40 WELL NOW, lets not get it twisted, Undertale never makes excuses for the player and anything that happened in Genocide is absolutely 100% our fault.
If you think about it, Kris in chapter 1 (at least) didnt really eat anything outside the dark world (and in, they just eated some dark candies and stuff like that) and they probably were starving. I think he took out the soul so we couldnt stop them or distract them from eating the pie that Toriel made. I know, a theory about something that isnt actually important to the game, totally not unnecessary xd
Guys Toby doesn’t want plushies of the lighteners because those can only exist in the dark world, and vice versa. So all we have to do to get them is stab the ground hard enough
My current theory as to the inciting incident (mainly just because I think it’s an interesting idea more than it’s actually evidenced) is that at some point in the past Kris, Asriel, Noelle and Dess went to the bunker in hometown and opened it, when something happened that resulted in Dess disappearing and Kris starting to act unusually - possibly because they’re being controlled by another entity to the player, maybe Gaster as a ‘test’ to see how possession via soul works before the player begins their control. Noelle blocked out the memories of the incident, and Asriel went to college as a way of trying to escape what he saw. My main evidence for this is that there’s a definite connection between Kris and the bunker, the bunker and Gaster (who is also linked to the player’s control of Kris), and some history between the Dreemurr and Holiday family that seemed to abruptly end. The specifics are mostly just plot points that I personally think could be cool tbh
I like to think that toby telling folks not to make light world merch is like telling players “what? you want a Kris plushie? a tiny little Kris on your bed so you can cuddle your favourite wee lil moss eater? sorry, can't do that! turns out Kris would rather sell their soul to the creepy salesman devil than be anywhere near you. and Susie isn't an option either, she would go ‘shame on u 4 controlling my friend with your controller, creep!’ or something, so she wouldn't join your shelf. yep, no plushies. Sucks to be You! >:-)”
Toby doesn’t want plushies of the lighteners because those can only exist in the dark world, and vice versa. So all we have to do to get them is stab the ground hard enough
I feel like I see this a lot but in my opinion, i don't think kris hates or even dislikes what is happening a majority of the time. We have seen multiple instances of Kris wanting to go back to the Dark world without the soul making him. I feel like he just wants free will while it happens. I do agree with the whole trauma thing with spamton and stuff.
I have the same hyperfixariin as you right now. I was also like, "Why not FNaF? There is a new game" and my brain was like "no." Oh well. Can't complain, I guess!😅 Oh, and I dragged my brother in with me!😂
You aren't alone, sadly. I could be doing anything else, hyper fixating on anything else. However, my brain chose Deltarune my heart chose this video and my finger chose to click the subscribe button. No regrets on the last part, honestly.
Ok I don't know about the "old player" stuff but something you offhandedly mentioned about Gaster experimenting on the player as well as the world of Deltarune kind of clicked with me. I kinda feel like that's the best idea for his motivations I've really heard. Mostly what we know is just that he's experimenting in the world of Deltarune, having connected the player to Kris and being somehow behind the dark fountains... But why? Why does he care so much about this one world? There's been theories about how he's trying to escape from wherever he's trapped or whatever, but I feel like the idea that his main focus is the player makes a lot of sense. Mainly because in Sans in his fight talks about discovering an "anomaly" that was messing with the timelines, and even though it's not confirmed that Sans and Gaster are connected, that information had to come from *somewhere,* and I feel like Gaster, the royal scientist, has gotta be where that comes from right? So if this is his way of contacting and experimenting directly on the "anomaly", AKA the player, that would make sense to me.
Your thoughts are pretty grounded and sensible, actually! I've read... A _lot_ of Deltarune theorizing, and this is good speculation! (Altho maybe I'm just biased because I also suspect the One Ending will have the same basic events, with the characters and context being what changes...)
i have this speculation (can't make a full theory) that Dess disapering is a cataclysm event that made the world (Hometown) and the characters who they are now. Kris is seemingly depressed from text clues, although there are many reasons why they are depressed a lot of them seem to stem from Dess disappearing. when the Vessel is Discarded it's unknown who's talking because the "Typer Value" is not conected to any character (Typer Value tells the game how to write the text in a text box as well as the talking sound). we know that Kris speaks seperet from us but we never get to see their textbox so we can never see their Typer Value, so since both of these have each other unknowable it is 100% possible that they are connected. it is repeatedly shown that Kris can get rid of us (unless it's a 3rd entity) so if we cause them so much heart each then why keep us around unless they need us. Kris Choices may not matter but our choices may matter, Kris is told that his don't matter but Ralsei who seem to know about the player as a seperet entity while faining talking to Kris assure US and enables US that our chooses do matter, and if we look in the game file it do keep track of the choices we make. maybe we are the human the prophesy talks about and maybe we can chose who the monster and prince are, as it is now it's too early in the story for the 3 heroes to show up as in the legend, perhaps Ralsei is trying to push US in a prethought out direction... what matter as to the Video is that i speculate that Kris NEED us to fix something
no clue how this channel doesn't have way more subs + views, loved this loved ur holiday special vid it all feels like hanging w a friend!! hoping u blow up soon ✨
My Deltarune brainrot is back in full swing and this video makes me go “:]” also Kris analyses are the bestest 😤 they’re just super mysterious!! I wonder if making merch of Kris would feel “immoral” because they don’t want to be a game protagonist in the first place 🤔
Here to second this, PLEASE play Undertale Yellow, it may make you cry, the music is INCREDIBLE, and I've been following the guy who directed it for years, his music is amazing and it's the best fangame I've ever seen that made me feel like I was playing an actual new but authentic Undertale experience. It's great stuff.
My personal theory is there will be no Lightner merch because deltarune will be completely erased. There will be no merch in a meta sense cause the characters no longer exist. Everyone except sans. I also believe that no matter what we the player cannot change this however the worst route is the Canon route because remember. "Do you believe even the worst person can change." - Undertale Sans
you calling Reid “someone I guess who works on the team” hurt me a bit 😭😭😭 that’s the cofounder of fangamer & the original inspiration for asgore as well as one of Toby’s good friends !!
@@AlleyDreamer really interesing video btw, everything you said about the fact that your actions may not affect the ending but affectsthe characters is smth ive been thinking for a while in real life, you can dictate your actions, but you cant always dictate the outcome of said actions on other people or events, that could show in deltarune, and it'd contradict susies original "your choices don't matter" (kinda like how floweys like "kill or be killed" and then that statement is directly shot down) because they DO matter, just not in the way most people think i saw someone point this out in some youtube video... i dont remember exactly what but people get (and idk if they still do) so hung up on that one line by susie but it is kinda similar 2 how the flowey scene went (big bad "evil" says thing that is bad because they think thats right) also something i wanna bring up, maybe you already felt some of this cause youve watched molly's video but the game seems to have like.... a "set path" and the snowgrave route is kinda like a bug in a game when ralsei is like "dont you wanna know what theyre up to!??!?!" when susie goes to save noelle in the snowgrave route, he could be freaking out about it because he doesn't have a time to go off and have crazy conversations with kris, but it also could be that he like.... knew what was supposed to happen next but that thing DIDNT happen like it was supposed to, so kinda like a bug in the system, the thing that was supposed to happen didn't and ralsei freaked out sorry if none of this makes ANY sense or has nothing to respond to,,,, i have a lot of thoughts in my brain im just so bad at getting them out into words and alot of them come from things ive heard from other people
@catticus6637 it totally makes sense! I constantly wonder about ralseis role and what you said makes sense he would be trying to make sure we play the game the "right way " maybe if Kris is aware of what ralsei is doing maybe that's why they don't like him
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAITTT WHATTTTT 😭😭 WHY ARE THEY CALLING HER HOMPHOBIC???? (I mostly meant the title as a joke because my theory isn't as well researched as it could be but omg that's crazy)
@@AlleyDreamer basically he said that they divorced because Rudy and Asgore had an affair (wild guess but ok) and Toriel is mad because of that (doesn't make her homophobic though) and because in the pacifist ending she doesn't want Frisk to see Undyne and Alphys kissing. It's not well constructed and takes wild guesses
did my entire comment get deleted ????? (maybe check in held-in-review..) Re-stating the last thing I wrote: this was an amazing starting-off point and speculation! I'd love to discuss more about this
I think that Undertale is built around a deconstruction of grinding. Is it really okay to kill these characters? Aren't they just as much a person as the main characters? Aren't there consequences? I think that Deltarune is built around a deconstruction of the player character. Are they someone you can customize to fit yourself? Are they their own person, with their own past? Do they want to be here? Do they want to do what you make them do? We assert our will on the Light World, and the Light World asserts its will on the Dark World, making this criticism both meta and diegetic.
@@AlleyDreamer at first I made it as a joke like I mean hey wouldn’t it be cool if it was revealed that he was a robot but when I started looking into it, I realize that there was actually evidence
I don't think I the voice at the start of the game is gaster and until we have actual evidence i think it's pointless speculation and a massive logical leap to tie this game back to undertale. The only possible connections we have are the characters reoccurring between games with no apparent memory of undertale since they've lived different lives, and the little cheeky references from sans but that's almost entirely on the player's part and not sans himself. I think the fans constantly going "gaster did it!" and making the soyjak reaction face every time we don't have an explanation for something is incredibly lazy and has literally no basis in any of the game lore and connected media released by toby fox. Gaster doesn't exist beyond fan creation and honestly I'm tired of theories that use gaster as damning evidence and no one questions it. My personal take on it is that i think Kris himself isn't the Knight, he's just the vessel and it's the player and the Knight fighting for control as we the player go through dark world after dark world to close the fountains the knight created. You see it all through out the deltarune chapters where there are actions you can take and dialogue options that indicate Kris has no choice in what you do as the player despite being able to remove the player soul assuming it's Kris doing that. In chapter one when you're meant to go home after the dark world you can go into your inventory and try to drop the ball of junk. You can hit drop and Kris really doesn't want to let go but you the player force him to do it. If you fight spamton neo normally, Susie and ralsei ask Kris if he's ok. If you choose yes it comes out very forced and strained but when you choose no Kris shouts it at the top of his lungs. However, when you just make Noelle kill berdly Kris is silent as if you've assumed full control and you're not trying to keep up appearances. On the other hand, whenever the night segment starts we lose control of Kris as he shambles around like a zombie.
Lol I do agree gaster is kind of a catch all for things outside of the normal game and I know there's not solid evidence for it that's why I said "gaster or whoever" I do think based on Kris's reactions to what we make then do in game I feel like they've gone through this before!
Gaster is a bit of a catch all, due to the fact we know so little about him that he could do anything and it'd "work" in the story in the same way that the Knight could technically be someone we've never met before. But there is some evidence that it's him in the intro. 1. The person in the intro speaks in all caps. Which makes sense for gaster since he speaks in all caps wingdings 2. The track is called ANOTHER HIM, it's in all caps, and gaster's theme in the game files of undertale is something like snd_tst_him 3. The music has gaster's theme in it as a leitmotif, which means there's a connection. 4. The deltarune website before chapter 1 came out had wingdings referencing THE LEGEND in deltarune stating "THREE HEROES APPEARED TO BANISH THE ANGELS HEAVEN" 5. The day chapter 1 came out we had a mysterious person speaking in all caps on the undertale twitter, speaking how gaster speaks (he said "VERY, VERY, INTERESTING" that's like the second most iconic gaster line) Like, it's possible it's not gaster, but there's clear evidence pointing to gaster in deltarune, and some good evidence pointing to him being the guy in the intro. An interesting thing to to note is that the lines that our vessel being thrown out and our choices don't matter is not written the same way (all caps) which implies a third party of sorts said that. There's probably more evidence of gaster in deltarune that I've forgotten about but this is what I remember.
@@MaxNexus everything except for the solid wingdings is speculation. The theory is essentially a paper ladder stacked on top of another paper ladder because yet again the evidence you presented is more fan speculation. For the sake of argument let's say that it's not fans jumping to conclusions for once and all of these evidence pieces are true. To start with, there can be no other experiments after the determination experiments because gaster doesn't exist anymore within the lore of undertale. People just outright ignore the fact that gaster was shattered across time and space but even when it is vaguely mentioned it's treated as "oh he's just elsewhere now" or they just ignore the massive plothole of how he just mysteriously retained his ability to speak, the sum of his intelligence, the ability to interact with the world and others, and the resources necessary to experiment despite it EXPLICITLY being stated that he was shattered across time and space and quickly swept under the rug. This implies that he has to have created deltarune before the determination experiments which also can't work because if he has the capability to make an entire world with copies of the undertale cast living entire lives within this world INCLUDING graves for gerson and the dead monsters which were the amalgamates in undertale, then why would he not just free the monsters from the underground? There's more that just doesn't add up but i don't like having to search again and again for shit that I already know in-game just to prove a point in an argument I think is pointless to start with.
@@Ultimate_Gamer_3000 1. If we're thinking about the same thing, The determination experiments were done by ALPHYS, we know this due to her entries in the true lab. (why do so many people make this mistake, it's not just you, I've seen people say this before.) Gaster made the CORE, or at least is implied to according to the wiki. Alphys made flowey, is the reason why the amalgamates exist, and built the DT extractor (Gaster might have designed it, the blueprints for it are remarked to look like either symbols or bad hand writing if I remember correctly.) 2. We don't know how exactly gaster ties to deltarune, we know for a fact he's in here, evidence 4 (and the extra evidence 1 at the end of this) makes that clear. But anything outside of that requires some amount of speculation, like for example claiming he created Deltarune. (A more reasonable claim is that he is somehow connecting us, the player, to Deltarune with the line "ARE YOU THERE, ARE WE CONNECTED?") 3. About the shattered across space and time, what does that entail? I ask that question because we don't know what that truly means. And thus it's speculation to assume he doesn't have any knowledge. The closest thing to anyone being shattered across space and time we see are the goners/ gaster followers and who we theorize is gaster in the mystery man room due to the fact gaster has ties to the number 666 and the FUN value needed to get that hallway that room spawns in is 66. But outside of stuff like this, we don't know. 4. Why are you so insistent on denying the possibility. You deny everything outside of outright proof. You constantly speculate as to reasons why it can't be him as if its an obvious truth while comparing the evidence to paper ladders. You didn't even try to disprove any of it. You could've pointed out that A CYBER'S WORLD is in all caps but doesn't have any sort of direct ties to gaster (outside of a weak gaster leitmotif which is arguably not there if memory serves me right.) Because much of my evidence is circumstantial evidence (as in it doesn't outright prove its gaster but can be used to reinforce evidence that it is gaster.) (And to clarify I still think ANOTHER HIM being in all caps is evidence, because it provides a reason as to why it's in all caps. A CYBER'S WORLD is in all caps due to its relation to computers, many cyber world tracks are in all caps, like for example, WELCOME TO THE CITY. Maybe you could argue ANOTHER HIM follows a similar idea since before beating ch1 of deltarune, the save select menu looks like an old computer terminal, and the dialogue when deleting and copying saves is also in all caps, like in the intro... or you can follow the more obvious gaster connection with a side note of computers being involved here.) 5. Yeah, this argument is pointless. The only reason why i've bothered in the first place is that I have nothing better to do and because I don't like it when people go and try to deny that gaster exists in deltarune (because there is evidence he is here. You don't even need to go into circumstantial evidence for that. The deltarune website pre chapter 1 is evidence of this.) (Also as a side note I don't like it when people try making gaster into the most important character ever. It's weird and it isn't how toby fox has written him up to this point. Like we don't have any evidence as to why gaster is here like for example his goal. Just evidence that he is here.) Extra evidence 1: also before ch1 came out, deltarune had a page called him.png which is an excerpt of ENTRY NUMBER 17. This supports gaster being in deltarune and the connection ANOTHER HIM has to gaster. Extra evidence 2: in undertale a npc that's called clam girl speaks about a girl named "Suzy" in the switch port she suddenly takes on the look of a goner/gaster follower and mentions how the time to meet Suzy is fast approaching. This was a month before chapter 1 of deltarune came out.
i have a small theory/headcanon: In the Spamton Sweepstakes, there's a page about Noelle where she talks about Kris coming over and playing the piano for hours. My theory is that Kris is just playing Gaster's Theme over and over again. And that may be part of the ritual that got them in this predicament in the first place. When you play Gaster's Theme in the sound test room in Undertale, it will not turn off. Also in Undertale, playing Asriel's theme on the piano causes the door to open, so maybe music is a version of magic in these universes? idk i didnt think of much else outside of that.
![Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE [Theory/Analysis]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T2IeUXG96_M/mqdefault.jpg)
my headcanon is that frisk is in a similar situation as kris, but frisk is younger and more willing to go along with your choices
Interesting point!
Frisk does do some things the player never intended, like telling Asriel their real name.
Deltarune chapter 2 is still stuck in my brain, and every year I wish toby had waited to release the full game instead of this agonising wait between chapters. I am lucky in that the chapters do seem to come out around my birthday month in september, so i'm hoping the next update comes out then in 2024
Yeah I could tell because of covid he wanted to put something out and then it became a big thing and maybe he felt he would have every chapter done every year. But I'm glad he's taking some time to put multiple chapters out at once omg I can't wait
I actually feel the opposite. The excitement of waiting for a new chapters + the amount of fan content that gets born from the interval + the shorter gaps of waiting for something to release are super strong pros
Nah I couldn't wait 2018-2030, I'm glad he released chapter 2 in 2021, and it's not like he's rushing it or delaying anything at all, hes just working on it so it wouldn't change anything in the end, chapter 3 and 4 are gonna release together in 2024 prob while chapter 5 also probably comes as it's own chapter separately from 6 and 7 (and yes 3 and 4 comes separately from 5, Toby did this because it took longer than expected)
I just think he should release them one at a time rather than waiting for 3 and 4 together. He basically said that Chapter 3 is finished, he could release it now, but for some reason he wants to wait to do 3 and 4 together.
@@Sylvia_Corvidev Yes, because Toby stated that chapter 3 will be less lore relevant than other chapters and he wants to charge the money for the releases past chapter 2. It's nice of him to try to make release worth its price.
6:54 Another consequence is that Noelle also becomes more assertive in the real world in Snowgrave than in the Normal Route. To what extent this is, we don't know yet. But we do know that presumably she was alot more... "forward"...with her feelings with Susie when you come across her room on your journey through Queen's castle. If Susie's reaction is any indication, Noelle might've worked up the nerve to do whatever warranted Susie to get flustered enough to want not talk about it at the time.
If I remember correctly, she's also more outspoken. She straight up asked Susie in the Weird Route whether or not she had a tail, and in the regular route she tried to subtlety look and see if she had one before being called out by Susie.
Yeah! I think that definitely falls under changes that were made to characters but the end point is the same. I'm curious to see if that level of assertiveness from the weird route gets kept up or if she'll default back to regular her from the normal route!
i think susie was hurrying up the team after seeing noelle because she just trauma dumped the last few hours, and susie now knows what we did
3:49
Actually, the interesting part of the Spamton fight is how much Kris themselves wanted to help Spamton. You'll notice they (not we) ask Susie and Ralsei three times to stay away from the shop/the basement and let them go alone. So I actually think this is just another instance of goals aligning even if they didn't like the outcome.
Yes I almost forgot about that! There's so much interesting things about that fight!
so did we all suddenly get really insane about deltarune again out of nowhere
and also all these points are so valid and real dude ur cooking
Omg yes idk why but the deltarune brain worms came back so randomly 😭
And thank you! Glad my ramblings made sense lol
YES FR
Yes
Talk about Captain Laserhawk because frog & duwang go brrrrrrrrrrrreere
I just looked it up omg it looks cool!
Tbh I think the “one ending” might just be Kris casting us out of them and the both of us having to live with what we’ve made them and everyone else do, whether it be good or bad, and us being unable to see the results of what we’ve done. I can see the end being really vague as to what we think Kris is going to do next, like, them saying goodbye to Susie and going inside their house (specifically the “see you tomorrow.” Susie Sticker), but we can’t follow them inside anymore, so we’re going to just have to let them go and do their own thing like a parent letting their child have their own agency and not being over their shoulder all the time, but in a more ‘Toby Fox meta narrative’ kinda way.
I like that! The ending stays vague even if we do all the "good" things. Maybe it'll be for Kris to learn how to be themselves again. We aren't needed anymore :)
@@AlleyDreamer Or maybe our discarded vessel comes back and gets to be our player character, We could interact with kris as a separate entity, And they'd wonder what's up with us, Maybe gradually put it together that we're the soul, I feel like that'd be cool. On a side note, I'm surprised there aren't many fangames out there that use the discarded vessel as a player, So much potential in the personality-less entity.
@@skullofglory10Bro imagine the soul vessel just hanging out with the gang, that would never happen in deltarune but would make a fun web comic.
@@TJ-hg6op Maybe not hang out with them, I'd assume they'd go on their own journey to stop the knight, Meeting THE LANCER FAN CLUB every now and again. As the gang would seal fountains, The vessel would hunt down the knight.
something about the "Old Player" Theory, there's soemthing curious about the code itself, there seems to be slots for chapter from 0 to 8, even tho 0 could just be a placeholder so the game won't crash in Chapter 1, there might be a hint that the world might reset and possibly going into a loop in our perspective, since in the files there's 2 particular songs named "W" and "D" from Chapter 1 and 2 respectively, and if there's like 8 chapters, it could fit perfectly with the name WDGASTER, and you know what happen to the game when the name is called when we name our Vessel. (also i believe that Chapter 5 will be a fake ending, but that's for another story)
about the One ending, this could be just like Steins;Gate, where even if there are variations on each worldline, they all still lead to the same destiny in the major side of events. (like for example, even when in both worldlines you have your friends or not, or even if the whole city is changed, in both WW3 will happen) so the timeline of Deltarune could be the same, no matter what we do, there will be 1 ending in the mayor side of events, while the choices we made, both the context of the ending and the feeling will be different.
Thanks for the details about the files! It's the one thing I know like nothing about because I have no idea how to find that stuff 😭 but definitely interested in the steins;gate theory it sounds cool!
Ooooh lordy. I cannot wait for Deltarune to continue!!!!
Please do take care of yourself okay!
Sameee! And I'm doing fine! Semester is finally over 😭
Im drawing kris as i watch this! Im literally OBSESSED with this game. It's unhealthy :3
Omg feltttt 😭 it takes over my brain at least once a day
So glad im not the only one who has returned to their deltarune hyperfixation 😭 ive been a fan for three years now and literally just days ago my brain decides to start thinking about nothing else but deltarune
2:40 WELL NOW, lets not get it twisted, Undertale never makes excuses for the player and anything that happened in Genocide is absolutely 100% our fault.
Yeah I don't think the game does but rather the player. Easier to disconnect if you think your chara
I mean, can you really blame people for thinking that? Lines like "It's me, Chara" or "I unlocked the chain" are valid evidence.
If you think about it, Kris in chapter 1 (at least) didnt really eat anything outside the dark world (and in, they just eated some dark candies and stuff like that) and they probably were starving. I think he took out the soul so we couldnt stop them or distract them from eating the pie that Toriel made.
I know, a theory about something that isnt actually important to the game, totally not unnecessary xd
Aww that made me really sad 😭😭
Guys Toby doesn’t want plushies of the lighteners because those can only exist in the dark world, and vice versa. So all we have to do to get them is stab the ground hard enough
If I stab the ground hard enough, will my Ralsei plush come to life?
@@caltheuntitled8021 I don’t know Ralsei is a weird in between
My current theory as to the inciting incident (mainly just because I think it’s an interesting idea more than it’s actually evidenced) is that at some point in the past Kris, Asriel, Noelle and Dess went to the bunker in hometown and opened it, when something happened that resulted in Dess disappearing and Kris starting to act unusually - possibly because they’re being controlled by another entity to the player, maybe Gaster as a ‘test’ to see how possession via soul works before the player begins their control. Noelle blocked out the memories of the incident, and Asriel went to college as a way of trying to escape what he saw.
My main evidence for this is that there’s a definite connection between Kris and the bunker, the bunker and Gaster (who is also linked to the player’s control of Kris), and some history between the Dreemurr and Holiday family that seemed to abruptly end. The specifics are mostly just plot points that I personally think could be cool tbh
I love this theory! Kris definitely has some connection to that bunker so it makes sense 👀
I like to think that toby telling folks not to make light world merch is like telling players “what? you want a Kris plushie? a tiny little Kris on your bed so you can cuddle your favourite wee lil moss eater? sorry, can't do that! turns out Kris would rather sell their soul to the creepy salesman devil than be anywhere near you. and Susie isn't an option either, she would go ‘shame on u 4 controlling my friend with your controller, creep!’ or something, so she wouldn't join your shelf. yep, no plushies. Sucks to be You! >:-)”
Hahaha I definitely get that angle! He's probably just really protective of the characters what they mean
Toby doesn’t want plushies of the lighteners because those can only exist in the dark world, and vice versa. So all we have to do to get them is stab the ground hard enough
I feel like I see this a lot but in my opinion, i don't think kris hates or even dislikes what is happening a majority of the time. We have seen multiple instances of Kris wanting to go back to the Dark world without the soul making him. I feel like he just wants free will while it happens. I do agree with the whole trauma thing with spamton and stuff.
Yeah! I don't think they completely hate the player but I think it could go left really fast 😂
I’ve also been on a real deltarune fix lately and I am shaking rapidly waiting for any updates or the winter newsletter
Omg I'm so hoping for a winter or end of year newsletter like plsss
The brainrot is real... And im experiencing it too
Good to know I'm not alone!
@@AlleyDreamer >:D
Me too
@@silly.f let's brainrot togetherrrr
I have the same hyperfixariin as you right now. I was also like, "Why not FNaF? There is a new game" and my brain was like "no."
Oh well. Can't complain, I guess!😅
Oh, and I dragged my brother in with me!😂
Omg glad I'm not the only one! So much new stuff out right now and my brain is just like nopeeee deltarune only 😈
You aren't alone, sadly. I could be doing anything else, hyper fixating on anything else. However, my brain chose Deltarune my heart chose this video and my finger chose to click the subscribe button. No regrets on the last part, honestly.
🫡 solidarity. Thanks for joining us in the brainrot
Ok I don't know about the "old player" stuff but something you offhandedly mentioned about Gaster experimenting on the player as well as the world of Deltarune kind of clicked with me. I kinda feel like that's the best idea for his motivations I've really heard. Mostly what we know is just that he's experimenting in the world of Deltarune, having connected the player to Kris and being somehow behind the dark fountains...
But why? Why does he care so much about this one world? There's been theories about how he's trying to escape from wherever he's trapped or whatever, but I feel like the idea that his main focus is the player makes a lot of sense. Mainly because in Sans in his fight talks about discovering an "anomaly" that was messing with the timelines, and even though it's not confirmed that Sans and Gaster are connected, that information had to come from *somewhere,* and I feel like Gaster, the royal scientist, has gotta be where that comes from right? So if this is his way of contacting and experimenting directly on the "anomaly", AKA the player, that would make sense to me.
Your thoughts are pretty grounded and sensible, actually!
I've read... A _lot_ of Deltarune theorizing, and this is good speculation! (Altho maybe I'm just biased because I also suspect the One Ending will have the same basic events, with the characters and context being what changes...)
Ahh thank you! I'm glad it made sense I was worried it didn't sound right lol it would be cool to see what the one ending would mean definitely 👀
i have this speculation (can't make a full theory) that Dess disapering is a cataclysm event that made the world (Hometown) and the characters who they are now. Kris is seemingly depressed from text clues, although there are many reasons why they are depressed a lot of them seem to stem from Dess disappearing. when the Vessel is Discarded it's unknown who's talking because the "Typer Value" is not conected to any character (Typer Value tells the game how to write the text in a text box as well as the talking sound). we know that Kris speaks seperet from us but we never get to see their textbox so we can never see their Typer Value, so since both of these have each other unknowable it is 100% possible that they are connected. it is repeatedly shown that Kris can get rid of us (unless it's a 3rd entity) so if we cause them so much heart each then why keep us around unless they need us. Kris Choices may not matter but our choices may matter, Kris is told that his don't matter but Ralsei who seem to know about the player as a seperet entity while faining talking to Kris assure US and enables US that our chooses do matter, and if we look in the game file it do keep track of the choices we make. maybe we are the human the prophesy talks about and maybe we can chose who the monster and prince are, as it is now it's too early in the story for the 3 heroes to show up as in the legend, perhaps Ralsei is trying to push US in a prethought out direction... what matter as to the Video is that i speculate that Kris NEED us to fix something
Ooo definitely agree! I do think dess caused the inciting incident because like no one talks about it! Very cool notice eitht the typer value!
0:22 honestly my brain stabs itself everytime I remember Antimatter Dimensions and how I could play that to pass the time to Deltarune Chapter 3
Oooo interesting 👀
@@AlleyDreamer yeah antimatter dimensions is a blast
no clue how this channel doesn't have way more subs + views, loved this loved ur holiday special vid it all feels like hanging w a friend!! hoping u blow up soon ✨
Awww that means a lot thank you so much for being here! 😭❤️
THANK YOU! EVERYONE THINKS I’M CRAZY WHEN I SAY CHAR-A AND NOT CARE-A
I guess because of the word "character" being used by it sounds weird that way 😭
I fell into the Undertale/Deltarune rabbit hole in early 2023, and ever since, my brain has hyperfixated on it. you are not alone.
We're in this together 😭
My Deltarune brainrot is back in full swing and this video makes me go “:]” also Kris analyses are the bestest 😤 they’re just super mysterious!! I wonder if making merch of Kris would feel “immoral” because they don’t want to be a game protagonist in the first place 🤔
Loveee Kris they're my fav rn. And yeah I wonder if that was the reason. Maybe it felt weird to Toby lol
Just your intro made me subscribe you, love that energy xD
:D yay! Welcome!
I know we can only hope Toby blesses us this Christmas
It would be so cool to get a demo or something 😭 or even something lore related
I don't have Twitter but I can scour the internet for any Toby posts
Nice video^^ BIG RECOMENDATION to play Undertale yellow on stream btw! (It's amazing)
Maybe I willllll 👀👀
Here to second this, PLEASE play Undertale Yellow, it may make you cry, the music is INCREDIBLE, and I've been following the guy who directed it for years, his music is amazing and it's the best fangame I've ever seen that made me feel like I was playing an actual new but authentic Undertale experience. It's great stuff.
My personal theory is there will be no Lightner merch because deltarune will be completely erased. There will be no merch in a meta sense cause the characters no longer exist. Everyone except sans. I also believe that no matter what we the player cannot change this however the worst route is the Canon route because remember.
"Do you believe even the worst person can change." - Undertale Sans
For being called the worst Deltarune theory, this has actually been the most rational theory I’ve seen in my streak of watching of DR theories
I guess I'm so used to the 3 hour multiple part completely in depth theories 😭 thank you!
Ah yes, a fellow deltasane(insane) person to share in the brainrot...
Omg I love that name for us insane deltarune fans 😂
you calling Reid “someone I guess who works on the team” hurt me a bit 😭😭😭 that’s the cofounder of fangamer & the original inspiration for asgore as well as one of Toby’s good friends !!
😭😭😭 I didn't know who they were that's my bad I've never gotten merch from fangamer
Ness is actually Kris guys I swear
Omg # confirmed
i NEED jockington plush
Omg I would loveee that
its okay the deltarune obsession worms got to me too and have been there for like Almost a year
Good to know I'm not the only one 🫡
@@AlleyDreamer really interesing video btw, everything you said about the fact that your actions may not affect the ending but affectsthe characters is smth ive been thinking for a while
in real life, you can dictate your actions, but you cant always dictate the outcome of said actions on other people or events, that could show in deltarune, and it'd contradict susies original "your choices don't matter" (kinda like how floweys like "kill or be killed" and then that statement is directly shot down) because they DO matter, just not in the way most people think
i saw someone point this out in some youtube video... i dont remember exactly what but people get (and idk if they still do) so hung up on that one line by susie but it is kinda similar 2 how the flowey scene went (big bad "evil" says thing that is bad because they think thats right)
also something i wanna bring up, maybe you already felt some of this cause youve watched molly's video but the game seems to have like.... a "set path" and the snowgrave route is kinda like a bug in a game
when ralsei is like "dont you wanna know what theyre up to!??!?!" when susie goes to save noelle in the snowgrave route, he could be freaking out about it because he doesn't have a time to go off and have crazy conversations with kris, but it also could be that he like.... knew what was supposed to happen next but that thing DIDNT happen like it was supposed to, so kinda like a bug in the system, the thing that was supposed to happen didn't and ralsei freaked out
sorry if none of this makes ANY sense or has nothing to respond to,,,, i have a lot of thoughts in my brain im just so bad at getting them out into words and alot of them come from things ive heard from other people
@catticus6637 it totally makes sense! I constantly wonder about ralseis role and what you said makes sense he would be trying to make sure we play the game the "right way " maybe if Kris is aware of what ralsei is doing maybe that's why they don't like him
@@AlleyDreamer ralsei is such an interesting character... whatdoes he KNOW
If you're calling this the worst Deltarune theory ever you clearly haven't heard about Toriel is homophobic
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAITTT WHATTTTT 😭😭 WHY ARE THEY CALLING HER HOMPHOBIC????
(I mostly meant the title as a joke because my theory isn't as well researched as it could be but omg that's crazy)
@@AlleyDreamer basically he said that they divorced because Rudy and Asgore had an affair (wild guess but ok) and Toriel is mad because of that (doesn't make her homophobic though) and because in the pacifist ending she doesn't want Frisk to see Undyne and Alphys kissing. It's not well constructed and takes wild guesses
@@kosuzumotoori I hope it was a joke lmaooo
still better than the sans is ness theory
oh hell yeah this is a great theory (/theory starting point)
Thank you so much! I'm glad it made sense 😂
my hyperfixation on deltarune is never ending istg same with undertale
I know it's been like years 😭
God may be with you in your degree sis
And it's not a bad theory you know
Thanks! Good to know my rambling made sense to somebody 😭
did my entire comment get deleted ????? (maybe check in held-in-review..)
Re-stating the last thing I wrote: this was an amazing starting-off point and speculation! I'd love to discuss more about this
I didn't see it in held in review :o thank you for commenting regardless! And I'm glad it made sense 😭
Lore of The Worst Deltarune Theory You'll Ever Hear momentum 100
I think that Undertale is built around a deconstruction of grinding. Is it really okay to kill these characters? Aren't they just as much a person as the main characters? Aren't there consequences? I think that Deltarune is built around a deconstruction of the player character. Are they someone you can customize to fit yourself? Are they their own person, with their own past? Do they want to be here? Do they want to do what you make them do? We assert our will on the Light World, and the Light World asserts its will on the Dark World, making this criticism both meta and diegetic.
What if Chris is a robot?
What if 👀
@@AlleyDreamer OK hear me out Chris is a android which was created by gaster to be the host of the player
@apoole54 that could be really interesting!
@@AlleyDreamer at first I made it as a joke like I mean hey wouldn’t it be cool if it was revealed that he was a robot but when I started looking into it, I realize that there was actually evidence
@apoole54 yeah lol Maybe in the way kris acts
Did you write the subtitles or does auto-generated subtitles think Chara is "charara"? very unrelated to the video sorry lmao
Unfortunately I do not have the time to do my own subtitles so they are auto generated 😭
Charara Dreamer @@AlleyDreamer
I LOVE YOU
LOLOL THANK YOU
I don't think I the voice at the start of the game is gaster and until we have actual evidence i think it's pointless speculation and a massive logical leap to tie this game back to undertale. The only possible connections we have are the characters reoccurring between games with no apparent memory of undertale since they've lived different lives, and the little cheeky references from sans but that's almost entirely on the player's part and not sans himself. I think the fans constantly going "gaster did it!" and making the soyjak reaction face every time we don't have an explanation for something is incredibly lazy and has literally no basis in any of the game lore and connected media released by toby fox. Gaster doesn't exist beyond fan creation and honestly I'm tired of theories that use gaster as damning evidence and no one questions it.
My personal take on it is that i think Kris himself isn't the Knight, he's just the vessel and it's the player and the Knight fighting for control as we the player go through dark world after dark world to close the fountains the knight created. You see it all through out the deltarune chapters where there are actions you can take and dialogue options that indicate Kris has no choice in what you do as the player despite being able to remove the player soul assuming it's Kris doing that. In chapter one when you're meant to go home after the dark world you can go into your inventory and try to drop the ball of junk. You can hit drop and Kris really doesn't want to let go but you the player force him to do it. If you fight spamton neo normally, Susie and ralsei ask Kris if he's ok. If you choose yes it comes out very forced and strained but when you choose no Kris shouts it at the top of his lungs. However, when you just make Noelle kill berdly Kris is silent as if you've assumed full control and you're not trying to keep up appearances. On the other hand, whenever the night segment starts we lose control of Kris as he shambles around like a zombie.
Lol I do agree gaster is kind of a catch all for things outside of the normal game and I know there's not solid evidence for it that's why I said "gaster or whoever" I do think based on Kris's reactions to what we make then do in game I feel like they've gone through this before!
actual INSANE person (only the gyaster part)
Gaster is a bit of a catch all, due to the fact we know so little about him that he could do anything and it'd "work" in the story in the same way that the Knight could technically be someone we've never met before. But there is some evidence that it's him in the intro.
1. The person in the intro speaks in all caps. Which makes sense for gaster since he speaks in all caps wingdings
2. The track is called ANOTHER HIM, it's in all caps, and gaster's theme in the game files of undertale is something like snd_tst_him
3. The music has gaster's theme in it as a leitmotif, which means there's a connection.
4. The deltarune website before chapter 1 came out had wingdings referencing THE LEGEND in deltarune stating "THREE HEROES APPEARED TO BANISH THE ANGELS HEAVEN"
5. The day chapter 1 came out we had a mysterious person speaking in all caps on the undertale twitter, speaking how gaster speaks (he said "VERY, VERY, INTERESTING" that's like the second most iconic gaster line)
Like, it's possible it's not gaster, but there's clear evidence pointing to gaster in deltarune, and some good evidence pointing to him being the guy in the intro. An interesting thing to to note is that the lines that our vessel being thrown out and our choices don't matter is not written the same way (all caps) which implies a third party of sorts said that. There's probably more evidence of gaster in deltarune that I've forgotten about but this is what I remember.
@@MaxNexus everything except for the solid wingdings is speculation. The theory is essentially a paper ladder stacked on top of another paper ladder because yet again the evidence you presented is more fan speculation. For the sake of argument let's say that it's not fans jumping to conclusions for once and all of these evidence pieces are true. To start with, there can be no other experiments after the determination experiments because gaster doesn't exist anymore within the lore of undertale. People just outright ignore the fact that gaster was shattered across time and space but even when it is vaguely mentioned it's treated as "oh he's just elsewhere now" or they just ignore the massive plothole of how he just mysteriously retained his ability to speak, the sum of his intelligence, the ability to interact with the world and others, and the resources necessary to experiment despite it EXPLICITLY being stated that he was shattered across time and space and quickly swept under the rug. This implies that he has to have created deltarune before the determination experiments which also can't work because if he has the capability to make an entire world with copies of the undertale cast living entire lives within this world INCLUDING graves for gerson and the dead monsters which were the amalgamates in undertale, then why would he not just free the monsters from the underground? There's more that just doesn't add up but i don't like having to search again and again for shit that I already know in-game just to prove a point in an argument I think is pointless to start with.
@@Ultimate_Gamer_3000
1. If we're thinking about the same thing, The determination experiments were done by ALPHYS, we know this due to her entries in the true lab. (why do so many people make this mistake, it's not just you, I've seen people say this before.) Gaster made the CORE, or at least is implied to according to the wiki. Alphys made flowey, is the reason why the amalgamates exist, and built the DT extractor (Gaster might have designed it, the blueprints for it are remarked to look like either symbols or bad hand writing if I remember correctly.)
2. We don't know how exactly gaster ties to deltarune, we know for a fact he's in here, evidence 4 (and the extra evidence 1 at the end of this) makes that clear. But anything outside of that requires some amount of speculation, like for example claiming he created Deltarune. (A more reasonable claim is that he is somehow connecting us, the player, to Deltarune with the line "ARE YOU THERE, ARE WE CONNECTED?")
3. About the shattered across space and time, what does that entail? I ask that question because we don't know what that truly means. And thus it's speculation to assume he doesn't have any knowledge. The closest thing to anyone being shattered across space and time we see are the goners/ gaster followers and who we theorize is gaster in the mystery man room due to the fact gaster has ties to the number 666 and the FUN value needed to get that hallway that room spawns in is 66. But outside of stuff like this, we don't know.
4. Why are you so insistent on denying the possibility. You deny everything outside of outright proof. You constantly speculate as to reasons why it can't be him as if its an obvious truth while comparing the evidence to paper ladders. You didn't even try to disprove any of it. You could've pointed out that A CYBER'S WORLD is in all caps but doesn't have any sort of direct ties to gaster (outside of a weak gaster leitmotif which is arguably not there if memory serves me right.) Because much of my evidence is circumstantial evidence (as in it doesn't outright prove its gaster but can be used to reinforce evidence that it is gaster.) (And to clarify I still think ANOTHER HIM being in all caps is evidence, because it provides a reason as to why it's in all caps. A CYBER'S WORLD is in all caps due to its relation to computers, many cyber world tracks are in all caps, like for example, WELCOME TO THE CITY. Maybe you could argue ANOTHER HIM follows a similar idea since before beating ch1 of deltarune, the save select menu looks like an old computer terminal, and the dialogue when deleting and copying saves is also in all caps, like in the intro... or you can follow the more obvious gaster connection with a side note of computers being involved here.)
5. Yeah, this argument is pointless. The only reason why i've bothered in the first place is that I have nothing better to do and because I don't like it when people go and try to deny that gaster exists in deltarune (because there is evidence he is here. You don't even need to go into circumstantial evidence for that. The deltarune website pre chapter 1 is evidence of this.) (Also as a side note I don't like it when people try making gaster into the most important character ever. It's weird and it isn't how toby fox has written him up to this point. Like we don't have any evidence as to why gaster is here like for example his goal. Just evidence that he is here.)
Extra evidence 1: also before ch1 came out, deltarune had a page called him.png which is an excerpt of ENTRY NUMBER 17. This supports gaster being in deltarune and the connection ANOTHER HIM has to gaster.
Extra evidence 2: in undertale a npc that's called clam girl speaks about a girl named "Suzy" in the switch port she suddenly takes on the look of a goner/gaster follower and mentions how the time to meet Suzy is fast approaching. This was a month before chapter 1 of deltarune came out.
i have a small theory/headcanon:
In the Spamton Sweepstakes, there's a page about Noelle where she talks about Kris coming over and playing the piano for hours. My theory is that Kris is just playing Gaster's Theme over and over again. And that may be part of the ritual that got them in this predicament in the first place.
When you play Gaster's Theme in the sound test room in Undertale, it will not turn off. Also in Undertale, playing Asriel's theme on the piano causes the door to open, so maybe music is a version of magic in these universes?
idk i didnt think of much else outside of that.
Oooo very interesting 👀👀👀 I definitely wanna see more gaster
omg another black girl who has a crazy deltarune hyperfixation 😭😭😭
Yessss!!!!
Been back in my Deltarune bag lately so I feel you there, Alley. 😭🩵
Omg join meee lol
@@AlleyDreameryou got it, girlie!!