Besagews, Rondels for the Shoulder and Armpit
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- The gap between the breastplate and shoulder armor, or the opening in the armpit can sometimes be left vulnerable by even sophisticated plate armors. The besagew, and other forms of rondel for the shoulder can be an effective solution to this potential problem.
Arne Koets - Grand Tournament of St Wendel - • The Grand Tournament o...
Jeff Wasson - Armorer - www.wassonartis...
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"Hey Buddy! My eyes are up here!" My wife looked at me like I was insane with the way I laughed.
By the way, Ian, I do NOT like the hound skull bascinet (can't for the life of me remember the original term). But that harness? You make it look good. Definitely making me rethink my distaste for the aesthetic of the bascinet!
Haha, you'll come around one day... as for the term, disappointingly it's mostly just referred to as a 'bascinet' or 'bascinet with visor' in various spellings. All the fancy houndskull, hundsgugel and everything else is modern.
Knyght Errant Interesting. Just how many types of different bascinet visors are there?
@matthewmuir8884 I think there are like 3 designs with a few variations on each but idk 🤷♀️
I think the Arrows vs Armour 2 documentary by Todd and Co really showed how vulnerable the shoulder is to arrows. It would be interesting to see how well besagews could protect the shoulder area that's only covered by mail.
I can attest they work very well. I've used mine for years and they've done an amazing job of protecting my armpit (without maille). Great video as always, Ian!
-Reece
Before I started watching your videos, I thought that the besegew is a silly idea. I mean, it's just a free-floating disk. That surely can't be much use, it can just be pushed away. Moreover it's pretty much the only freefloating piece of armour. But after watching your videos, and seeing how often the point of swords and polearms gets blocked by the besegew, I was forced to revise that stance. This is a surprisingly useful piece of equipment.
Could you do a video about the different types and styles of gambeson?
thanks to a particular example of fluted gothic besagews I've always jokingly referred to them as nipple umbrellas.
it's remarkable seeing what a difference they make in defence, at least visually just from your demonstration
Excellent video. By the way, I was wondering if you would make a video about jack chains. You mention a lot of armour that was used by the wealthy, but I think (I could be wrong) that a video on jack chains would be your first video on commoner's armour that wasn't a helmet.
Wow, it was incredible, how much more complete your armor looks when these rondels are added. The level of protection for the upper body, really seamed that much more gap less. And this is purely coming from an initial aesthetic point of view. Incredible! Keep up the good work.
Holy shit, how do you only have 44k subs? This is fantastic.
Without a doubt, one of my favorite channels.
Thank you for this explanation of armour pieces I considered mainly funny-looking. Now I know for sure that I will make them for my 15th century Gothic model armour reproduction. Sure this armour serves no purpose, but I am trying to get it as good as possible. Now I know why these thingies existed.
This is an old comment, but I believe he was talking about the reproduction he is making not serving a purpose, not besagews in general.
These are the most useful videos for people working on historical video games / movies / books!
I've seen a few english and german full plate sets with basegews and always wondered why, the context of lance riding really put it into perspective
Arne is a brilliant human :D and an awesome teacher at that. Rode in his classes twice.
Brilliant work on the vid. As always.
Indeed, and that must have been a great opportunity! Thanks Martin!
It was :) Youre welcome. Keep those videos coming ;)
Pinned! Such a great work one again. Take care of your shoulders Ian ;)
Thank you very much sir!
Ian. Would you be interested in doing a set of videos on firearms (handgonnes/culverines) evolution from 1300s to 1400s to 1500s and their effects on armor and use in battle?
Other interesting topics might include:
-Cog ships and other high medieval European ship types and naval battles. (YOU WERE IN THE NAVY, YOU SHOULD CARE. I CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONE.)
-Medieval War Darts and the mercenaries and soldiers that used them.
-Fire bombs/clay pot naphtha grenades used in an attempt to defend Constantinople from the Turks.
I'm not sure if you've seen, but Tod recently did a video with war darts.
ruclips.net/video/cJotBsrqbwI/видео.html
As for medieval naval battles, I thought that they really didn't have them much, except in the Mediterranean where they could use galleys. Sailing ships just weren't very good for fighting before cannons.
" Dished Concavity" - respect to you sir !
Good timing. I made some besagews last week and I've been wondering how high to mount them.
Such an awesome work. Congratulations, Ian
You said full pauldrons also have their own compromises. Could you please elaborate on that?
They are heavier and more restrictive. They are really intended for cavalry armors where one may not need to raise their arms very high. In many period sources we see Italians shedding their pauldrons to fight on foot because they may be too restrictive. Sometimes we even see pauldrons being shed when operating in a light cavalry role. A spaulder will generally allow you to retain more shoulder mobility at the cost of reduced protection.
@@KnyghtErrant cool
Audio's perfect on my end.
Also, I was among the ones who thought it was more to cover the armpit rather than the shoulder's joint.
Excellent video! Very informative.
Enlightening, thank you.
Your kit is amazing
Another fantastic presentation! Besagews are my new passion. Seriously, The Queen should knight you for such outstanding work. A++
The British Monarch/Queen can NOT really 'knight' a foreigner/American. She can only give a 'honorary knighthood'✌🏻....so sadly no "Sir" for Mr. Ian Laspina 🙁
Your videos continue to be some of the best presented, most informative videos out there. Thank you so much for all your hard work.
Yeah, every time I mention Ian's videos to people, I just can't stop gushing about how great they are. This channel is the single best resource on the internet I've seen for understanding armor. So much information, but with a very clear presentation that makes it easy to follow and understand.
Thanks guys!
Excellent explanations. Bravo. It's always a treat to see a notification of a new video.
This is awesome. Nice production quality and super informative.
Yes! Ian's back!
Thanks for a cool video. During the 14th nad 15th century it seems that it was popular to have rondels protecting the elbow as well. Can you say something about the pros and cons of a rondel as compared to the more "winged" shape?
This is great very hard to find info on that piece of armor
Besagews on examples you've shown look like they are placed even higher up... or is placement affected by whether you have aventail or not?
My aventail will prevent them from going much higher. _If_ I end up with a great bascinet in the future, it should provide less interference.
Thank you very much for the clip, well done. Besagews could be interesting for my brother, he wears a replika of the Leeds Briganntine around 1470. For me Basegews are not interesting i have a milanese suit with large pauldrons, so no large gaps at all.
Informative as always. Great job!
0:51 please elaborate! What are the benefits and drawbacks of the full pauldron?
Weight and mobilty/range of motion? Mounted vs foot combat?
Could you do a video on hair styles and facial hair in the medieval and renaissance periods? Also, what did they use to shave? In Achille Marozzo's _Opera Nova_ , many of the illustrations are of clean shaven men, while some others have rockin' beards.
Great video as always.
"Juicy arteries"
words I'd never though I'd hear from a video like this.
Interesting video, as always. Never gave much thought about these before. That deflecting potential against frontal thrusts is especially interesting, and it's really not obvious at first glance considering how simple, and apparently basic, the shape is.
But do you have any idea how it comes you call it "besagews"? It clearly is a sort of English spelling for the French word "bisaiguë", which roughly means "doubly-acute" or "doubly-sharp", but I really don't see how it came to describe these. Unless it came during the period when they had spikes in the center, and as as they came in pairs, with some stretch of imagination, they could have been called that, though the "bi-something" kind of word construction usually refers to a single object (bicorne is the two-tipped cocked hat, bigorne is the standard anvil with two horns (and deformation of the latter word), bipenne is the double bit axe, bifide is the two-ended tongue of serpents, etc, and the bisaiguë is actually a double-bitted carpentry tool somewhat related to the English twybil). In French, at least in modern terminology, these are referred to as "rouelles", which simply describes their shape (rouelle literally means small wheel), and it seems likely that this term had been used in the period, precisely because its basic and quite descriptive.
Rouelle is the equivalent of the English 'rondel' which can mean a slightly more general piece of armor as understood now. The word besagew in various spelling is the one found in many period sources. The earliest I've seen is the 1322 inventory of Roger de Mortimer which predates the 'spiky' ones by quite some time, so I'm not sure exactly what sort of etymological transition took place, but a lot of Anglicised armor words are bastardized pronunciations and sometimes don't bare as much resemblance to the original word as we'd like. Another period term for these is _motons_ .
Yes, rouelle is also a more general term for any such circular piece, be it at the armpit or elbow joint. As far as I know, there is no specific word to precisely mean the one from the armpit. On a much less funny side, "rouelle" was also the name given to the round piece of fabric Jews had to sew to their clothes. But Anglicized spelling is still often pretty close to some French version of the word of the time. For example I discovered the word "rowel" (which is the closest spelling you can get in English of "rouelle") existed, though it had took a very specific meaning. And "rondel" is also pretty close to the French "rondelle" (small circle). But the case of "rowel" illustrates how a foreign word quite generic to begin with can be lexicalized into something quite specific. But where do you find all these primary sources? While the lexicalization of "rowel" is not too far fetched, that of "besagew" is!
Now as for "moton", which can harmlessly be spelt "motton", it seems to be the diminutive of "motte", which gave "moat" in English. "moton" and "motton" aren't used in "main" French anymore, but are in Québec, and it's basically a heap, a lump, a volume protruding from something, and we see more easily how this could refer to the raised center of the besagew.
Sometimes these specialized armor words originate in a third or fourth language and by the time it gets to French or English has already lost some of its original meaning after being phonetically copied from another language but morphed into the new language's sound profile. Take _sallet_ for example. A lot of people look at the word and think it's an Anglicized French word, but the first recorded term for that helmet was by its Italian inventors, and was called a _celata_ . The French term for the same helmet is a _salade_ which as far as I know (I don't speak French) literally translates to _salad_ in English, which is nonsensical when thinking about armor, but not if both _sallet_ and _salade_ are really just a mangled pronunciation of what people were hearing when they encountered Italian exporters with their fancy new _celati_ for sale. I dunno... but I do find the linguistic side of history fascinating, what little exposure I've had to it anyway.
The linguistic side of things is indeed a very deep insight into the core reality of history. That's why I like to enquire every time I get a chance. Also, one thing we tend to forget is that before national unifications, mostly during the 19th century, people spoke in dialect most of the time, and it formed a dialect continuum to a point where our modern concepts of "national languages" are anachronistic. I have a good part of my family coming from the South of France, so this is something I took some interest in, but someone from Marseille would probably have had less trouble understanding someone from Firenze than a parisian. If you listen to the dialect of Nice (Nissa), to a modern French it basically sound like Italian. Where I live now, in Auvergne, is the upper boundary of that region of "most romance French", now called "occitan". And in the dialect my grand-father spoke when he was a kid, there are sounds you also somewhat find in Portuguese!
But the same goes with germanic languages: when you know a bit of German and a good bit of English, and some spelling and pronouncing rules, you can figure out words in Flemish. But I believe English had a relatively specific and separate evolution, and the vocabulary has borrowed a huge amount of words from other languages. But you feel the reality of this once very real and very tangible dialect continuum, and how people had a very different approach to language than we now have. By the way, I believe it the little exposure we have, on relatively narrow topics, that also make it so interesting to us. We simply did not expect to find it there, we just stumbled on it by surprise, on actual slices of life of our ancestors, and it makes it so much more lively and real than if we had learnt about it during a boring lecture.
As always a very good educational video, it broadened my view of the simple little piece of plate it thought it to be, never gave it much thought about how it moved under impact and what a juicy target it protected.
I do have question however, regarding decoration, were they ever painted?
There is sculpture that implies painted decoration, usually heraldic in nature or the Cross of Saint George.
Excellent! Thanks for the reply.
Im building a kit for an italian sea captain from the period around 1440, i found some sources that say which type of gear was worn according to rank (im not sure if its from "The Book of Michael of Rhodes" or some Genoese source, my book is still in the mail). The captain was said to wear a helmet, gauntlets and a breastplate in battle, apart from that the description is rather slim, but since no shoulder protection was mentioned, it feel that a besagew would add that little bit of protection that is missing without adding too much weight, and would ofc look good.
That was a great video about something that I knew very little about.
Question for you, do we have any documentation on the development of armor, such as requests by a Sir or Lord so and so to a smith saying I'd like you to make me a new set of armor with the following changes because the last battle I was in I nearly got run through in those spots? Or possibly discussions between smiths and their clients soliciting information on how to improve their armor, or even just simply journal entries by men at arms mentioning shortcomings they're finding in their armor and what they'd like too see done to overcome them?
I'm not aware of anything that specific (that doesn't mean they don't exist), but my understanding is that these things are more a matter of seeing stuff like the lance rest become very widespread at a certain point in time, and then shortly after besagews come back into use with a vengeance etc.,
I figured as much, but I thought I'd ask anyway. It would be pretty interesting to know just how these improvements came about, I think that it would be kind of fun to read the discussions that went back and forth between men at arms and smiths. I really wonder if improvements were coming many from smiths who either had once fought for their lord or just made guesses (possibly by talking to clients or friends/family who returned from a campaign) or were people coming back from fighting making requests/demands of these smiths. TLDR, which came first, the chicken or the egg.
Do you have any videos about the economics of armor during this period? I'd be interested to see a discussion of the costs and infrastructure associated with the industry during this time period.
I don't, but a friend of mine did a podcast for the Askhistorians Reddit group that does cover a lot of interesting material concerning the armoring industry and guild structure etc., I think they are worth a listen:
Episode 1 - askhistorians.libsyn.com/askhistorians-podcast-082-the-european-armoring-industry-and-techniques-1300-1600
Episode 2 - askhistorians.libsyn.com/askhistorians-podcast-083-the-european-armoring-guilds-and-people-1300-1600
Knyght Errant thanks Ian, I'll check those out.
I got here after I learned about grogu's rondel from the mandalorian season 3 ep 4..
Well done as always! Keep up the good work. :)
I had to laugh out loud about my eye placement... guilty as charged. Ha! Great vid!
I learned a new word today. Now I have to track the etymology...
Have you ever considered doing a video on shields?
Honestly, I never placed too much attention on that piece of armor. I didn't even knew it has a name.
The flower in the centre is war of the roses style i feel. Both the lancs and yorks had the white and red roses respective.
Love the besagews! I think a nice next step would be to get some tailoring done on the mail sleeves :P you should hit up Isak :D continue the great work! :)
He does do great work! My sleeves are already highly tailored though :)
Regarding evaluation of rivets in leather tab of besegews in your kit: Was there a choice to not have them spin? What is your preference, What is accurate to period pieces? Regarding mine: I found glanced better with one rivet allowing it to rotate, but I have spurred (star shape) edges.
I love this kind of video. I'm very interested in 14th to 15th century armor, and I must say that I have difficulty to place the role of scale armor in this period. I saw plenty of cuirasses, fauld, helmet, greaves and even sabaton made of them in manuscript, but I never really seen any reconstitution (except one helmet you showed in a previous video) of it made or worn by someone. So do you have this topic in mind for a future video?
Mr. Errant, can you help me determine if the shoulder protection of this set of armor is spaulder or pauldron?
www.rct.uk/collection/71650/composite-cap-a-pie-field-armour-of-the-marquess-of-waterford
How does one classify a spaulder anyway? This particular case seems to be an oversized spaulder that covers much of the back of the armpit and shouler, but frontally it is just a spaulder.
A lot of the terminology is fluid in period, but a pauldron generally refers to larger shoulder defenses with articulations. I would call the shoulder defenses on the linked armor pauldrons as opposed to spaulders, since they have articulating lames and overlapping coverage on the chest and back. That armor though is not a real medieval armor, it's mostly modern.
@@KnyghtErrant So, this is a more authentic replica of a spaulder, right? It does cover quite a bit of the chest even without a besagew, but it is fundamentally spaulder, right?
www.eysenkleider.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2430470574.jpg
www.eysenkleider.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2430632616.jpg
www.eysenkleider.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2430632615.jpg
Thanks for the informative response! I really think that you should make a video on the shoulder defense as a whole ;)
Please make a video on oversize couters or elbow protection on the left side of the body matched with oversized pauldrons and gauntlets
I just want to know in what situation they would be used in tournament, joust, foot battles or more than just singularly one
Love the armor series! I feel almost ashamed to run around in my suit of armor in Kingdom Come and, as I adore history, hope to pursue a re-enactment hobby one day. Question, though, will you do a video on the Frogmouth helmet? I found your pinterest gallery most interesting.
Thank you! I will have a helmet that features a frogmouth style visor in the upcoming months, while not a _true_ frogmouth helm on its own I think It will relevant enough to allow me to address frogmouth helms. I know a few people with jousting quality stechhelms as well, so maybe I can get a hold of one of those one day too!
Knyght Errant Very excited for it!
Ian, I was wondering, did anyone wear armor made of Bronze scales sewn or riveted to rawhide or cloth after the Roman age?
I'm sorry this question is coming in a little late, but when you showed the besagews that were integrated into the spaulders, were they made that way initially, or are there any examples of bedsheets initially being separate pieces then getting divided into the shoulder plates?
Hey Kyght! I'm working on building a late 14th century German long swordsman kit for SCA. But I'm not sure exactly how it should look. Could I get some pointers?
Here are some sources to look at for the latter half of the 14th century in the HRE. I would suggest by first narrowing it down to a decade at maximum, which will help you refine your search, but these links will give you a feel of the aesthetic and equipment used for that broad period in that geographic region:
effigiesandbrasses.com/search/?year=1350&year_end=1399&country=4&country=2&tags=&institution=&name=&costumes=1
manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?year=1350&year_end=1399&country=4&country=2&tags=&institution=&manuscript=
another thing that it defends against there, and I've personally witnessed this at a recent Longsword tournament, is that it defends a stab from not penetrating, but dislocating a shoulder via leverage. This may have been a freak thing, but the point of the feder got right in that joint and popped this guy's shoulder right out. I would imagine that had he a rondel there, it wouldn't have gotten into the joint like that. It was actually kinda messed up how it happened.
I like your Lord of the rings editions on those book shelves. There's Silmarillion and probably some other US editions of Tolkien, right?
Thank you, yes that is our Tolkien shelf :) Several editions of The Lord of the Rings, a few Hobbits, Silmarillion, Beren and Luthien, Children of Hurin, some Alan Lee and John Howe artwork...
@@KnyghtErrant do you find Tolkiens descriptions of the first age arms and armour appropriate to the level of knowledge we had in the early 1900
I always have wondered, how good of an armor could we make in modern day if we seriously made one for similar fighting situation as what you would have in medieval times. It just would be so interesting to see what we would end up with. Bu this I mean basically that if some company took this task on like military contract.
Pretty dope beard though
He, the tv series "vikings" and 2 more inspirations are the reason why i have a fairly similar beard right now.
Took me about 2 years...
Edit: You can do it too. Bit of patience and a competent barber...
It's fun to go back to his early videos and then watch the facial hair become more and more epic. Particularly the "Effigy appropriate mustache."
E
Hello lan, I was wondering if you could make a video about 13th century ailette on armor, because it's a very unknown part of the Templar armor that i only discovered recently. If you could describe it in depth, it would help me a lot. Also, it's interesting to see that at the same era, the knight used the same shoulder protector as the samurai and its a very strange resemblance
It's not very strange, since if something works it has probably been discovered. Both medieval Europe and feudal Japan were in constant wars and developing similar techniques isn't weird.
He covers ailettes in his video on the arm harness. He seems to believe their function was solely as heraldic display, rather than as armor.
I do have ailettes on my list of potential video topics. I think they deserve their own treatment, I just don't know when that will be.
I would like to know where I could get my own harness. I’m thinking of actually getting a set. Although I don’t know where to get a reliable set.
Hi Ian I have a question . Where can I buy the rondels by themselves? Every website I checked they sell them together with the pauldrons .and I already have pauldrons thank you .
I had mine custom made be Jeff Wasson (www.wassonartistry.com). I'm not sure I've seen anyone sell pairs off-the-shelf, but any custom armorer should be able to make you a set.
@@KnyghtErrant cool I'll check his website. Thanks
You are such a fucking boss my dude.
Love your vids, really interesting
you should talk about kastenbrust armor sometime
So I have got a question. Do you know which types of helmets (for the footmen) that were used in the late 14th/early 15th century? I'm trying to reenact one in a game. Right now I'm wearing a gambeson/kettle hat combo, but I'm pretty certain other stuff are out there. It's just that I'm bad at finding what
The kettle hat (provided it's in the right style) is ubiquitous throughout virtually the whole of the Middle Ages, but if you want something different, one of the more common helmets seen is a simple open-faced bascinet for that window of time.
Ah, I see. And if I were to reenact a knight fighting on foot, I noticed that a lot of the artwork picture them using spears or some sort of pikes instead of halberds which I thought were used during this time period. At least I assume they're knights because they're wearing hounskull bascinets and what seems to be late coat of plates/corazzinas.
Am I right on track to assume this, or were halberds used?
A piece of armor about which I have always wondered. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
what are the strange historical pics with round plates on the helmet (eararea)?
So I wear armor from 1380-1390s England or France. My chest protection is a coat of plates. Is it historical to still wear a besagew with a coat of plates or do they only go with full plate?
I would think the time period is the more questionable aspect here for including besagews, not necessarily the use of a coat of plates.
Thanks! Also, my Houndskull just came in today and I was wondering if there is a way to keep the visor up without holding it? I see helms do this, but mine just falls back down into place. It does have a pen to hold it down when it closes (i know that is not historical, but for the sport im in, it is required)
I seem to recall some mention of this in a previous video. I think partly it was done with slightly non-aligned pivot points for the visor. I don't recall other ways.
It sounds like the pivots may be too loose. You can peen them from the inside with a hammer to expand the shank of the rivet and that will tighten them up a bit, but be careful if you're not comfortable doing that sort of work.
thank you soooo much guys! :)
It makes sense to not cover the armpit with these as getting a trust in there is almost as unlikely as a cut to the foot
6:30
"Then you get to bleed to death..."
yeah, that was a bit funny how he just casually says it....its also a bit dark 'o'
I was hoping for a sneaky dab at 9:43
Hi, I wonder if decorations like etchings were common among armors at that time, or are they restricted to wealthy nobles to afford them? What do battle-ready armors for low rank nobles look like? Did they keep the decoration minimal for combat and economical concerns?
Etching is not something a lower ranking individual would be able to afford. A lot of decoration is reserved for the wealthy, but there are simpler forms of decoration that may have been employed by less wealthy individuals (like painting). For a little more on decoration I will shamelessly plug by own video - ruclips.net/video/rdI6PoJXmZg/видео.html
Thank you for the explanation! I noticed that a lot of recreated armors have little decoration on them (like the one you have) compare to the historic ones exhibited in museums (which belongs to kings and dukes) and thus have the question. Painting was a interesting approach I've never seen or thought of, partly because few exist today.
Part of the reason is that decoration is still very expensive today, especially if you want it to look right :) For me personally, most of it is out of my reach financially, but on top of that it would be inappropriate for the living history I do. In my group I portray a landed Esquire, having too much decoration would give my armor more of a knightly appearance, so I intentionally keep my level of decoration modest. Painting is a bit of a tricky one. Very little painted armor survives, and what does is mostly from the 16th century onward or was modified after the fact, but there is some evidence for its use here and there in Medieval proper, although its sometimes very contextual.
I've noticed a bunch of low-fantasy armor designs in the past years where the besagews are shaped like heraldic shields and have heraldry on them.
I can't think of any reason this wouldn't work on a real set of armor, but do you know if it ever actually happened?
Here's an image of an example
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonsdogma/images/5/56/Fake_guard-002.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151016075517
Do you mean specifically _heater shield_ shaped? I've never personally observed a besagew shaped like a _heater shield_ specifically (at least I can't think of any) but there are quite a few that are _shield_ shaped, they just happen to be shaped like a _pavise shield_ rather than a _heater shield_ .
Yes, heater shields specifically (for the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were called when I was writing that first post). I'd never heard of pavise-shaped besagews before, which made me wonder if I'd been too hasty when dismissing heater-shaped ones as ahistorical.
Thanks a lot for the reply!
Seems weird to choose besagews when all you have otherwise is maille. I would've thought something like jack chains would be more useful for a similar amount of steel. But I guess that's from a HEMA mindset, in real war it's not about where you get hit, but where the hit is most likely to penetrate.
Were besagew ever used with churgburg armour?
Can you be more specific? The armoury at Churburg contains dozens of armors, some include besagews, some do not.
Knyght Errant ahh ok. I’m making the globos style that has the lower back covered with multiple plates that wrap around. The breast plate has the 3 plates with the brass trim along the edge. I don’t think I’ve seen them on it in any pictured.
Ah ok, so CH13. No, that one is too early for the return of besagews. For what it's worth, the real CH13 doesn't actually wrap all the way around the lower back. A lot of modern reproductions make it that way, but the real one just barely gets around the sides of the body. The back would have been primarily defended with the coat of mail worn under the breastplate.
Knyght Errant cool thanks for the info and your videos. Really appreciate your work.
So the protection provided from lance strikes is now obvious to me, but English knights most often fought on foot against people on foot, why'd they bother using them?
GenericFakeName Just because they weren't lancing didn't mean they couldn't be lanced. I imagine it was a serious concern as they added several extra defences against lances, like the raised portion under the aventail.
I would also add that they are probably very useful for keeping that area safer from arrow and crossbow shots.
It would also provide protection against poll arms, something that was very popular during throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance.
+Riceball01 *pole (I'm a grammar nazi) and btw, pole arms have been popular for forever, and they were pretty much always your main weapon. Swords were generally just backup with a few exceptions
TheBeetle The misspelling was intentional, I just figured that if the pollaxe is spelt the way it is then so should poll arms.
were besagews ever painted?
It's likely that some were. Sometimes we see besagews on effigies decorated with the arms of the wearer or other things like the cross of St George. There's a good chance that similar decoration on real armors were painted in such a way.
Damn I wish my armour will behave like this. Getting mail under cuirass almost immobilizes my arms...
I think he have mail sleeves attached to a doublet and not a full mail shirt.
His new harness is distinct sleeves with a full curiass, but his previous harness (which likely still gets used for 14th century events) had a full shirt and a breastplate (no backplate).
9:43 SOMEBODY GIF THAT
Sure I can fill the void between the spaulders and breast plate...but what about the void in my heart?!!
Mmmhh...
Juicy.😳
Do they also go on the back ?
No, but we do see similar rondels curiously appear on the back of armets specifically.
If i'm not mistaken the rondel on the back of armets is to protect the leather of the wrapper plate.
For some reason I'm getting this in slightly speed up chipmunk audio version o.0
Why do some people were these on the back of their helmets during reenactment battles?
They wear an extra reinforcing piece for the face and throat, the most dificult parts to protect . It's kind of having a second and independent visor which is laced in the back of the neck to the helmet, the piece is there to prevent targeting of that lacing.
Ian already made a video about this:
ruclips.net/video/MrFwI4eFhf0/видео.html
I recommend to see the whole video.
Taijess Basnaw their are present on armets to provide protection and support for the straps of a wrapper plate. There's an entire video Ian made about the armet if you want details.
It protects the strap of additional throat and facial protections that were used with armets, iirc. It's in one of Ian's other videos, the one on the armet/close helmet I believe. Example: www.medievalwarfare.info/pics/armet_wrapper2.jpg
for amets it's to protect the leather from the wrapper plate
HUSSARS???
I have seen dipictions of knights in medieval art wearing these in all matter of weird places. 🤣 You see them on the back of the neck, on the troat, on the ass, covering there croatch, on the top of the foot, and even on the fingers of people wearing fingerd gauntlets. These really are under appricetaded cause they were used to cover bassicly every type of gap in armor you can come up with not just armpits. 😂🤣😂 Some types of these used for tournamants of peace were bassicly the size of bucklers. I'm kind of sad you don't talk more about them cause there is a awfull lot to say about these.
Is anyone else getting the problem of the audio suddenly speeding up to ultra-fast, making Ian sound like a chipmunk?
No, but I have heard of that happening due to connection issues of some sort. The audio de-synchronizes from the video then tries to catch up.
..I wish. That would be hilarious!
Bryan Schmidt I must admit, I did lol a bit when it first happened. It's pretty annoying not being able to understand what he's saying, though...
Came here to find out what a rondel was after the Mandalorian.
Someone needs to make a gif if your gay jaunt at 9:42. It's amazing.
2:42 "Pavesa's" ?
blindbrick blindbrick Pavises.
Thanks
Unfortunately, I don't get a clear sense of where and how the besagew is attached to the armor.
Around 11:09 you can sorts of see where it goes. In the earlier part, when showing the back side of it, you can see two holes on the top of internal leather strap. Those are used for tying the laces. BTW, unrelated to this video, love the Outsider comics!
It's simply tied to the rings of his mail sleeves, using the piece of leather on the back.
Are we related?
This video is just so under like.....
Nth
A little too fast to understand
Sinra Industries it's a perfectly normal speed for most people, but you can always change a youtube video's playback speed if you want.