Medieval Material Culture - Quality: Then vs Now
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- A common point of confusion within medieval reenactment is the assumption that low-quality reenactment products are approximating low-quality historical objects, but this is often fundamentally untrue in important ways. Let's dive in and examine how quality differs in the modern versus historical context and how we can approach this subject more critically.
Toby Capwell - Building Medieval Plate Armor An Operator's Guide - • Dr Tobias Capwell: Bu...
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0:00 Intro
0:07 Overview
1:58 Ground Rules
2:08 What survives vs what was
3:18 Are inexpensive modern goods analogues for inexpensive historical goods?
4:14 Objects trying to be something they're not
6:19 Churburg Infantry Breastplates
6:58 Sallet Progression
9:47 Modern processes
11:19 How this applies to clothing and other goods
12:23 Specific Characteristics and Properties
13:38 Uses and limitations of modern lower quality gear
14:50 Til next time!
#medievalarmor #knyghterrant #livinghistory
"It's ugly for the right reasons which to an armor geek makes it beautiful."
Thanks for putting into words how my brain works Ian. Love this channel.
@The Reckoning thanks, it's an armet, search for the Armor of Charles I, in the Royal Armouries. (You can easily find it on google, search for XVIIth century Dutch cuirassier armor)
@@Velkan1396 my boi velkan got a heart :o
@@gigproductions887 hehehe
Indeed. A cheaply made, roughed up, simply shaped, utilitarian, poorly finished helmet churned out by the hundred made to fit the generic soldier well enough, produced with little regard to appearance, not made to imitate anything, with its own unique asymmetries and idiosyncraticies, just made to do it's job is always nicer looking than cheaply made mass produced imitation of something else with little regard to quality or accuracy.
Holy shit its velkan from the PTKA discord
Ian where are you man? its been 2 years, miss you bro, your the go to medieval armour professor guru expert professional
He's still active elsewhere. He had some medical issues he needed to sort out - possibly an injury but I'm not entirely sure. He's posted lots with his improved harness.
@@nutyyyy where elsewhere? I’d like to see.
@@nutyyyy where?
Funny paradox is that in modern times, making good quality medieval poorman's kit can at times be more expensive than rich ones.
Specially with the soft kits. Those 100% natural wools and linens cost an eye and an arm where I live.
@@Mtonazzi See if you can find some cotton ones. Cotton tends to be much cheaper than wool or linen in my experience.
Not that much of a paradox. Thats the industrial revolution for ya.
@@hawkticus_history_corner Cotton was for the rich in the middle ages as it was both labor intensive and an import from the Middle East.
@@BlaBla-pf8mf Yes it was, but it's much cheaper now and isn't immediately obvious when looking at it so it should work for a cheaper alternative.
Plus it could still fit depending on their reenactment area
He has hair. I don't know how to feel about that.
What if he shows up with no beard/mustache?
Ian's rocking that roman emperor look
my guy lookin like a greek scholar
He's going for his namesake's Ian McCallum long hair, but less AR/AK more Longsword/Sallet.
this is very strange. must be due to social distancing.
Mate we need you back, I have no idea what's going on in your personal life. (hope all is well) I just hope that you will find your way back to us to share your knowledge of the period we all love your great at teaching the subjects you choose to discuss. Keep well and hopefully one day you will have the time and energy to make medieval content again.
He's still active elsewhere on social media.
@@nutyyyy W h e r e ? I must see how this man is doing, he literally is armor Jesus!
@@nutyyyyWhere?
@@nutyyyy where
So we have premium replicas of premium originals and cheap replicas of premium originals, but we need more premium replicas of cheap originals.
Pretty much. Honestly, I think making the cheaper originals should still be cheaper than making the really nice ones. I mean, it's still saving time
It's easy to say, but the problem is whether there is really a market for premium replicas of cheap items. Unless the price difference is significant, I suspect that there isn't.
Specialty of ie Tomasz "Tomala" Samuła. He has 5 levels of rough finish to choose from :D
Even if you can't afford his work, they're amazing to fawn over.
@luigi mario I would agree that brigandine would require more labor,, just not necessarily more human labor. There's no reason that you couldn't couldn't make a brigandine coat with a machine. The machine would feed in the backing, place the plates, cover them, then rivet them in place, then moves it out to start the process all over again.
@@Riceball01 This would only be cheaper if you would want to mass produce brigandines. For the current demand you would just sink huge amounts of money into automation that is never going to pay off...
Idk if you still make videos on this channel but I feel as If I at least have to say thanks for sharing your wonderful research and presentation skills over the years.
I'm gonna second that. I've always had an interest in the Middle Ages, along with many other historical periods. With so many I like, I go through phases. I few years ago, I went through the Medieval phase again. Your videos were a big part of that. Thanks man :)
He hearted your comment so at least we know he still has access to the channel.
Analogy:
a faithful future reproduction of an Honda Civic, might be almost expenensive to make,
as a faithful future reproduction of a Porsche 911
Every once in a while youtube recommends a video from you because they know I will always click it and watch it again. Good luck in life, sir, wish you the best.
Reasons armor would have been cheap historically: made from multiple pieces of metal, made from metal of lesser quality, no polish or decoration, entirely utilitarian shape
Reasons modern armor is cheap: made into a shape that requires less work, often in a shape that impedes function, made by people who aren't trained armorers
We have technology to cheaply produce materials that would have been absurdly expensive 600 years ago. However, we have far fewer people today trained in armorsmithing than Europe did in 1420, so the work itself is more expensive.
I suppose there's just one thing that didn't change - getting customized, fitted armor is still more expensive ;)
@@Tennouseijin well, yeah...
The good modern sports buhurt armour is cheap for just the same reasons it was cheap armour then.
Work has been minimized and reduced to simple tasks, maternal's are the lowest quality and every thing done to a simple pattern.
Today that means cutting and drilling sheet metal, useing plain steel instead of titanium or harden steel and produceing a brig with fewer large plates an less drilling.
I agree for the most part, but with today's technology, you really don't need armorsmiths, you just need people to put metal into a machine, press a button, and pull it out. With modern metal pressing technology, a full suit of plate armor could be all machine made fairly quickly and easily with the only had working needed being a little bit of fit and finish work. I just think that, in most cases, the companies that make the cheap stuff aren't taking the time and effort to produce accurate masters to base their tooling on and probably don't care either. But if someone were willing to invest time, money, and effort, they could very easily mass produce munitions grade plate armor in small, medium, large, and extra large using metal pressing machinery. It could even be almost fully automated with only 2 people per machine, one to make sure the machine is always loaded with sheet metal and another to pull the final product out of the machine for final fit and finishing.
@@Riceball01 Except the startup cost for an armour pressing assembly line will be in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And unlike other mass produced sheet metal items like car body parts or construction components, the demand for mass-produced replica armour is most cases too small to justify sinking in that much money to sell a few hundred breastplates at $100 each year. Not when they could just pay some metal fabrication shop in China or India $10 an hour to quickly rough out a breastplate from 18 ga stock with an old surplus pneumatic power hammer.
The face on the armor on the left at 6:19 lol
That's one of my favorite pieces of existing armor for that reason alone!
@@KnyghtErrant Does anyone make a good reproduction of it? It'd certainly be a good conversation starter. Same goes for some of those cheaper painted salets and the like. That one in the Wallace collection with the monster face for example. It's distinctive and interesting, yet not super fancy.
The borders of at the arms and neck those infantry breastplates beautifully illustrate something not often understood. A solid plate of metal is weaker at the edges than in the dead center even if the thickness is the same. Those ridges might not solely be there as 'stopping ribs' to stop glancing blows but also to reinforce structurally weaker points on the armour. Perhaps they even provide some structural rigidity to the plate surface next to it to resist deformation.
I hope he makes more videos. I really enjoy his contributions.
two years later i thought this dude still uploaded
@@Yianfranco he regularly goes years without posting. he'll probably be back.
Basically, a low quality reproduction of a high quality item =/= a high quality reproduction of a low quality item.
That is not correct :) low quality reproduction of High quality item is spoiled work. Wrong shaped bascinet will not function as proper shaped bascinet :) Improper balanced sword will not work. It can damage your wrist, you maybe even force to "cheat" some techniques....etc,etc.
That is it. Any craftsman, took care of his reputation. And selling spoiled work was a cheating of customer. It is now too :)
Excusing poor reconstructions with the bad quality argument always seemed wrong to me and I really like this clarification on what cheap armor actually looked like. And it make perfect sense that a soldier short on his money would choose to go cheap on the looks rather than the protection. I wonder how good mobility would have been in a cheap munition grade armor. If it's made to fit a certain "size" rather than fitted to the person, I can imagine that it could be very annoying to move in. Although I don't think that people short on money would invest in a complete set, they'd probably settle for an half or 3/4 armor.
As someone that makes illustrations (or used to, alas) this is just like when I have someone that never studied or practiced human anatomy and then defends himself with the good old "it's my style".
Now, onto armor making or buying, the problem is having reallistic goals and time-spans for them... I did that mistake myself when I was a newb xD
Only All warfare is 99% boredom and back then that 99% was marching an standing around.
There's clear evidence that people with the choice some times chose lesser but comfortable amours often quality brigandines.
Its the same as people today not takeing rifle plates or leaveing some parts behind.
A lot of the cheap Italian armours where made an sold like off the peg suits from vast armor where houses.
SuperFunkmachine A lot of times a person who was guard, didn’t own his armour it was just General Issue for Guards just like how modern soldier doesn’t own any of his gear as it is owned by the state.
@@Mtonazzi "...defends himself with the good old "it's my style"." this reminds me of when someone defends completely unbelievable and bad writing with 'Well, it's fantasy...' :)
@@KnyghtErrant Exactly! D:
hi I wanted to say that even though you stopped making new content, your resources have been a lifesaver for me. As a child of a anti-gun family with considerable amounts of money i (In half desire for defense and the other half wanting to have a cool sword) bought myself a reproduction sword at a cheap blades shop. I loved it so much that i told my dad a year later i would not ask him for anything that cost money for months if he got me a suit of armor for my birthday, which he did. Later my mom matched the gift with a fine sword from Toledo and though i loved both very much i had no idea how to care for them. Thanks to your videos I now can keep it in shape so maybe when im old i can give it to my kids as well.
Awesome story dude. Also, have you ever wondered if the tempered steel plate armor is at least bullet resistant?
dang... 2 *YEARS* since the last vid. Hope you're good dude.
Um, excuse me Ian, are you suggesting that this $90 mirror-polished sword I got from the internet, that was made by stock removal from a bar of mono-steel with an electric grinder and weighs 5lbs, isn't what a lower-class medieval soldier would use? Fake news.
@Jimmy De'Souza Those zombies won't stand a chance against my trusty sharpened crowbar!
but does your sword have a removable pommel?
@@krogg5868 Yes to due the zombies in rightly
@Snackdubbz but only once
Really miss this channel.
Some of the best advice I'd ever gotten: Buy once, cry once.
Awesome video, as always.
Yeaah ! Welcome back Ian ! (and Ian's hair apparently !)
Was he hairless before?
I saw "material culture" and had to tune in. We had an argument along these lines in undergrad anthropology. Fun stuff, thanks.
I went to the city of gratz which has the largest medieval armory in the world. Seeing all of that high quality munition grade armor was amazing. Those pieces were handed out to men when ever the city was attacked and then given back, most were even “proofed” against bullets to show their protection
I miss this channel, I hope you’re doing well and come back to RUclips eventually!
And when the world needed him most, he vanished
Excellent point Ian, there is often a confusion with the term high quality impression, thought to mean someone of high class. However it means creating an impression using as close as period materials and reproduction equipment as possible.
This could mean patched clothing and repairs to gear.
The modern eye is so used to mass produced items, it can be physically jarring for us to see items that are not homogeneous.
Once you get your hands on the highest quality period armors and weapons you start to notice the blemishes that hand crafting cannot remove, even Henry VIII Cloth of Gold tourney armoury has defects.
It is reasonable to have some level of defect in you kit as long as it is accurate.
I would also ask a question: is it for example possible to ask Todd for a reproduction of an historical low quality thing? I know he spoke about it on a video about a sword, that his reproduction are better quality than the original, because the market asks him so. And if he agrees, does it then reduce the price of the thing? As less polishing, less straightening... Has to be done. I might try that myself on leather or wood goods if I find a good example. I have to remember that for a video. (L'atelier de la sentinelle)
To your first point, I think for similar reasons a lot of people are reluctant to do an impression that uses _historically_ low-quality equipment because they feel like it makes their impression _low quality_ in the other sense of the term... which is a shame, because we really need more of that kind of impression; high-quality low-quality impressions!
And yes! Even the highest quality period armors have some pretty funky defects to our modern eye! Even the best armorers today have trouble reproducing the errors in the real stuff. It's hard to de-program our expectation of machine precision and symmetry, but it's really part of the charm! Today people would look at a flute on armor that wanders or a sword fuller that's not straight and think of it as an error when things like that are all over even the _best_ surviving objects. If you look at the example I gave of the fine sallet in this video, it's still not straight!
@@christophe7723 This is a good question, should an artisan charge less for perceived lower quality merchandise? If I was to sew a gown in wool thread not silk I am still putting I the same hours, if I intentionally patch a garment that takes time.
@@KnyghtErrant I too think that this is a shame, looking at militant depictions militias make up the bulk of the fighting forces. I believe it is a great gateway into a combat impression without being too hard on the pocket, where some of the kit can be upcycled later..
Having both impressions and those in between gives a fuller representation of the stratum of society of the past.
@@KnyghtErrant don't get me started on quality of period arms and armor, I have at times had people in the community tell me that period pieces that I have handled and photographed are poor modern replicas because the roping was wonky.
We miss you , man :'(
Wow, I love to hear about this. Sometimes I am a little frustrated with all the attention on the blinged-up high end kit over the stuff that was more widely used. And it is an important, basic, point that the modern ways of cheaping on the manufacture are very different from the old ways of cheaping on the manufacture.
Also, the first rough-and-ready sallet looks OK as an improvised stabbing implement of last resort.
We really miss your videos Ian.
its been a while and im assuming you wont be coming back so i would like to thank you for being such a consummate professional here on youtube, i knew going into each video that at the very least it would plunge me into a specific aspect of something and i would leave with a broader perspective which is invaluable here on youtube the land of clicks and "edu-tainment"
HE HEARTED IT??????
@@nedflandersmustache he lives!!
Glad to see you back, and well worth the wait.
So good to see a new video here again!
He returns to us now, at the turn of the tide! Great to see new content from you as we know it will be considered and clearly presented before we even press play. Thankyou!
Knyght Errant hits it out of the park again. I can’t wait for the next one!
It’s about time! 😂
Thank you for taking the time to make a new video very well done and helpful!cheers from 🇨🇦
Nice to see a new video from one of the best historical channels on this site!
Hey! Welcome back,
Great content, interesting and thought provoking
Good to see your still making video lectures always enjoy your detailed and well worded explanations
Fantastic video! I'm always jazzed to see new content of yours come across my feed
Great video, hope to see more!
Love the video, glad too see someone talk about this. Make more please
This is a fantastic video - both informative and compelling. Thank you!
Thank you very much for making and sharing this. I learned new things.
Plzzzz come backkk
I loved the topic of this video. When your see "did X work on Y" abour medieval weapons and armor, it's always top-of-the-line, not average or even lower tier. Your perspective of "they're bad copies of great stuff" is very good.
Your videos are always worth the wait :) as someone getting into reenactment, it's information like this that lowers the barrier to entry for the hobby and prevents artificial hurdles of buying many cheap versions of an item until you find the right historical analogue. Great watch :)
Well said. I just got my first dagger from Tod Cutler. It was kinda pricey, but hopefully I won't have to replace it for quite a long time, if ever.
You're in good hands with Tod.
@@KnyghtErrant I think Tod might be the only seller I've seen that makes those high quality reproductions of lower end kit. Which is a shame.
@@DoktorWeasel Matt Easton has previously mentioned Fabrice Cognot as a very good maker, similar to Tod. He employs traditional methods, so that the steel will have inclusions/flaws.
hey man hope you are doing good! i’ve been amassing my own collection of armor recently and this video has given me valuable insights on what armor to acquire and what armor to avoid. idk if you are done with making videos but if you do make one might i suggest you show off your updated personal collection! i might start making my own videos soon as you have been a huge inspiration. have a good one!
I find this style of topic wonderful!
Along these lines I wish more content creators would spend more time focusing on presenting these ideas/ this kind of content: more about the "low end/economic" armor of the different ages. I was fascinated when I first learned about "Jack Chains" and the different textile armors.
Thank you for your knowledge, investment of time and professional delivery of the subject matter. It is greatly appreciated.
as always your content is awesome, insightful, & absolutely appreciated!
Thank you for everything that you do.
History, as well as myself has greatly benefited from every ounce of effort that you have put into it.
again,
Thank you!
First time I've ever seen a video from this channel, really like the pace and content.
Oh you're in for a treat if you go back and watch his other videos. I haven't seen anyone give a more accessible, understandable but also detailed look at medieval armor.
@@DoktorWeasel Thanks for the rec. I do historical reenactment and have been doing research lately to see about getting a fighting harness built. (Or at least, ya know, planned..) but I'm #lazy and wanna listen to people instead of tracking down translations of 16th century German documents.
Fantastic video! Thank you for this!
Came across this video from a Skallagrim recommendation. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness, production quality and clarity of your explanations. Would be great to see more from you!
I chuckled when I saw your hair....then I looked in the mirror ☹️
Welcome back and thanks for making the lockdown a bit more bearable
Hello Mr. Ian LaSpina. I've noticed you haven't done too many videos lately, but you seem to still read comments so I'm going to make a few questions that I've been wondering.
This one is about your personal harness. Why do you, and practicaly every other reenactor of the same time period wear a mail shirt, but not mail chausses? The mail shirt is an essential part of the harness, but I rarely see anyone wearing mail chausses.
Secondly, why did proper plate cuisses get replaced by very long, elongated tassets that go down to the knees?
Mail - so in my current harness I wear a mail skirt and pair of mail sleeves, not a full mail shirt although a full shirt can be done in some configurations. This helps reduce some of the unnecessary redundancy under the plate cuirass. As far as mail leggings, there is no room for them under a properly fitted leg harness. They mostly fall out of use as fully developed plate legs become more common. We do see specialized voiders of mail worn behind the knees and the front of the ankle to fill in gaps though. On occasion in artwork we see mail cuisses, but usually worn with incomplete plate legs or just on their own. There are other variations of brayettes with extended upper legs too, but complete mail leggings under a complete plate leg harness would not be typical.
I'm not sure why the extremely long tassets came into favor in the 16th century. I don't spend too much time on 16th century stuff. I know that they _do_ become popular, but _why_ I don't know. I have no personal experience with them.
@@KnyghtErrant Thanks
May I suggest a video topic if you ever come back to making videos. Something about the coat of arms in the Medieval period. I dont know what exactly, anything about them I suppose. Their meaning, how they developed over time, when they first started being in use. What ever you think is best to talk about, youre the expert after all. Thanks for the great videos!
In 1800's Australia Ned Kelly was kicked out of his LARP club after his first try at recreating a replica Churburg harness.
Really enjoy your videos; they are well-researched and always provide great context.
Along the topic of this video specifically - at a certain point it has to be frustrating or even disheartening to see so many people in the business of selling at best "conceptual simulations" (and at worst simulacra) of what existed in antiquity, as opposed to a faithful attempt at creating something authentic. There is no shortage of "faux medieval" anything being imported and re-sold, though at least most of the time they have the dignity to sell it at bottom dollar.
This is an incredibly important point.
You look like you’re straight out of Renaissance Italy with that beard/ hair combo!
Thank you so much for putting to words what I couldn't portray!
YOU'RE BACK I'VE MISSED YOU
Great video, thanks
I just love these videos talking about the armor made for and wore by common men. Please do more! go into detail on why the lower quality pieces are not as good as the high end ones, like you did with the sallet!
Ian, you haven't posted in a while, I hope you are doing well! You are my favourite historical youtuber, I hope you'll return to continue delivering quality content.
He is alive!
Why did the videos stop? Did he leave RUclips? Did something happen irl?
Anybody know what happened? I loved his videos about armor, but there hasn’t been anything in at least a year.
He still alive, he will even like or reply to a comment sometimes, and still working on his kit, he tailored a jupon, got his new helmet and a shield, based the last post on his facebook page before he took it down some 2 or 3 months ago.
But why he stoped making videos and even took down his facebook page and other social media stuff? I dont think anyone that isnt a close friend of his knows the why and i havent seen any word from him on this.
I can imagine the he doesnt want to make videos if he doesnt has anything worth saying, but for putting down his facebook i have no idea.
Mr. LaSpina wake up, 2022 and there are no such good channels on yt about medieval stuff as yours. the world is changing who now has the strenght to stand against the rule that nothing is true, everything is permited, only you!
After 2 moths the man is back 👌🏻
Thx Ian, on point as always. Good to see you in good health. Greetings from Viking Denmark
I try to keep within 50 years of a specific era. That way there is some wiggle room with accuracy. A lot of items changed or were adapted but some larger items stayed the same. Soft kit changed quickly, hard kit changed a bit slower. Great video for those just getting into this lifestyle!
in some cases yes, in others, i mean, the tunic barely changes in design for 400-500 years
Hi Ian! I just finished watching all of your videos from the oldest one (the Led Zeppelin guitarplay was magnificent by the way!) to this last one. I hope you still have monetization on these videos and I was able to earn you a few bucks with the ads, because they are all excellent. I don't want to sound like I'm demanding more videos, but if you ever decided to upload your more recent escapades, like the habergeon you made last year, I'd most definitely watch it. :)
Also, if I can buy a Knyght Errant shirt or hoodie somewhere, please let me know! I wish you good luck in whatever you're into nowadays!
Glad to see Ian is finally back. Man, I did miss you.
How is your health? What is the future of the channel? Please give your fans an update.
Video, beautiful in simplicity. Thank you. It is difficult to find quality quality, and good enough kit.
Glad to see you back in another video, Ian!❤👍 We don't get a lot, but it sure is quality! And of course that's far superior to quantity.😉
Are you ok my dude? I was going to check on your facebook page, but both you blog and your facebook page seems to be inaccessible.
thank you for the refreshing video tht cures the ailment of the confinement era, not being able to see stuff with your own eyes
😭😅
but hey, free knowledge! with fine distilled imagery to accompny it 😃.
thank you vey much 👍.
Been missing your videos bro
I purchased a cuirass that was obviously intended to be high end late medieval but wasn't, it was strapped on both sides but the sides didn't line up exactly as you would expect to find in knightly armour etc. Luckily it was kind of made to my dimensions so has the right length and reasonable curves, similar to the infantry breastplates on this video, so I reconfigured the side straps to a belt strap coming round the front, enabling me to put it on on my own, another aspect of lower order armour, no team of squires! Now I think it's a reasonable pass for munition armour, 2mm mild steel, except for the finish, no where near mirror but still pretty shiny! Totally agree with the don't try and convince yourself it's something it's not thing. Great video.
Fantastically worded and referenced
Hi Ian, you haven't upload any new video for a long time, is everything ok mate?
I'm doing fine, thanks for checking on me!
@@KnyghtErrant We all miss your videos. We didnt even got to see on video the stuff you have been working on like your new helmet and jupon.
@@KnyghtErrant Phew! Glad to know you're doing fine, I was a little worried. Best of luck mate!
Awesome topic!
Stumped upon this channel... Now I want to do reenactment!
Thanks for this video. I hate how "shiney" everything on sale for cheap is. I feel there is a market gap for, exactly as you say "Munitions Grade" equipment that is slowly being filled when it comes to all elements of medieval life. We see "Monty Python" poverty and shiney Lords in hollywood etc, but untill very recently if you wanted "everyday functional" items you had to make them yourself, and while there is something to be said for the accuracy of this approach (people being much quicker to make themselves what they needed in previous times, simply because of market access) it did put many items outside of many people's reach.
A thing about historical personal possesions often overlooked by TV etc (for budget if nothing else) is how they would be, for the most part, decorated personally. If you had no TV and the main entertainment in the evening was purely audio (listening to your family/workmates/fellow guards/etc tell stories and talk silly banter) you would be sat about with nothing to do with your hands: if you weren't crafting everyday little items, you would probably embellish your stuff, a lot. We see these "cheap" armours now in the bare metal, but I am willing to bet that many of them would have been painted in a million different ways, sheathes and scabbards painted and carved, even grandads walking stick: he has it on him all day, he has his pocket knife, he doesn't have to do the hard labour anymore: his walking stick is gonna look great after a long winter. We all gotta spend the time somehow and not go mad :D
TL:DR Get the plainest (Functional) item you can and spend the time decorating it yourself to really make it authentic "everyman's" kit, instead of everyone walking around as Shiney Knight Number 237.
As always, Excellence!!
The A81 sallet really look like it's been at least ground, and possibly coarsely polished. Removing forging scale is a nightmare, and if an item is left raw from the forge, you don't see the metal underneath. Though in a different context, as a billhook collector, I wondered for quite some time why tool manufacturers always delivered their tools ground, rather than left in forging scale, while they were mass produced and cheap. And the reason became apparent when I bought a cheap cleaver made in Thailand: forging scale can be used to hide serious defects, such as cracks, burnt steel, or bad welds. Grinding is expensive, but it's a way to show the customer there is no major hidden defect. A truly black sallet, left in its forging scale, would probably have been very significantly cheaper than even the A81 shown here, as not only does it significantly cuts on manufacturing time, but also there is lot less loss during manufacturing, since only extremely gross defects would require the raw forged helmet to be scrapped.
One of the problems we face is almost none of them actually retain their original surfaces. Many were 'cleaned' by collectors and museums in the 19th century (i.e., they polished away what they didn't like) and we're only lift with some of the deepest pits and crevices.
On the chance this crosses your eyes Ian, i was curious on if you think itd be feasible in lieu of an arming doublet for arm defenses to be laced directly to the maille underneath. And if so if you know of any historical reference for it.
More videos please Ian!!!
Go look up close at a museum exhibit. There's a dragon shaped pitcher that I always admired. Got to see the actual object. Being a metalsmith myself I was interested in the details and construction. Wow! It stunk! What a revelation. Bad joint where it was put together. Lots of details not polished or finished. This made me wonder - exactly how many of this piece were made? And I also wondered who it was originally made for, and sold at what price. Definitely opened my eyes. So this obviously was about other things besides armor as well.
I do love your eloquence!
It's kinda neat to realise that you can just stop at various stages of the process of hammering out a sallet and still call it a helmet...
This leads me to wondering what sort of stratification you could see in the equipment of common soldiers. The most basic protections are generally understood, but what heights could their equipment reach and in what social stratas? I.e. the mercenary captain to his veterans, and so on? Well-to-do Burgher militia?
LIKE seriously we need you to upload more often. Who doesn't like historical helmets. I'm not sure how familiar are with the Hellenistic era helmets but a series about the origins, classification and the evolutions of so many crazy variations and subvariations would be plainly AWESOME.
There is a modern tendency to avoid good low end kit. It is as expensive to have bad high end kit, as bad low end kit. Conversely good low end kit is as expensive as it's high end cousin. So the natural choice is to go towards high end, good or bad, leaving very few examples of the lower end (good or bad).
I think there's a stigma in people's minds where many reenactors (especially newcomers) feel like doing a 'low end' kit means it won't be fun, or it makes the impression 'low end' in the other sense of the term. It's really a shame, because a high-quality low-end kit is so incredibly important, and in many ways more relatable to people you meet at events who just want to understand how _normal_ people lived their lives in the Middle Ages.
@@KnyghtErrant In our group we have our newcomers start dressing as farmers and then they can "rank up" with time. But we try to make the experience fun for them . This system also allow the more senior members to curate the stuff they will make or buy before they spend money on them.
I think this saves a lot of "feel bad" moments
Over the years I've only seen lower class kit done well a few times. The best, I had to go back and check the car was locked, they looked that disreputable. It's hard to do poor kit well and there's little incentive.
I think it is an omission but a natural one. Modern reproductions cost pretty much the same whether you dress as a king or a peasant. Modern material costs are low, labour is expensive a reversal of the medieval situation. It's a natural thing to want to get the best 'value for money'. So if you're going to spend hundreds of pounds (or dollars) there is a tendency to go for upper class kit. And often doing it badly.
Peasant kit isn't cheap. No good quality reproductions are cheap.
@@Mtonazzi This is similar to how our group is set up. We generally encourage newcomers to start with a commons impression. We get them in loaner gear, help them develop their kit, etc. You're generally expected to have a full kit that meets standards in about a year. Every new piece of material culture we introduce into the group (recruits and veterans alike) go through a vetting process. The person presenting the equipment will show it with documentation and/or some explanation of how it fits into their kit and then we vote on it (with guidance along the way obviously... ). Many people find they enjoy the commons impression and choose to stay there and keep improving while some others will develop a higher end impression and some go back and forth depending on the scenario we're doing.
Loving the Covid-19 haircut, Ian. Cheers!
I'd never have thought that Ian's hair might be so curly.
Christian Changer His beard and his southern Italian look gives away what’s his hair might look like.
Damn bro you are frigging brilliant! Respect!
Please come back!
Any plans for a video on the evolution of the nasal helmet? From the late roman spangehelm all the way to its evolution to the early greathelm? It is such a prolific style of helmet for the early and high middle ages and a proper video on the topic would be great.