Love on the Spectrum Helpful or Harmful to the ASD Community?
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2022
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I watched this show when the first season came out and I liked it and liked what it was trying to do but I agree that the infantilization was a little off putting. I haven’t kept up with it since then but I’m glad it hasn’t been cancelled prematurely because I think it’s important-autistic people want to find love too.
Just made a post on reddit about how it was to autistics if it was for autistics. I watched a few episodes and I saw a lot of infantalization by the parents and them interviewing the adults parents in front of them.
I have a child with autism. The infantilization of autistic children by their parents is a real problem. I don’t go to support/play groups for this reason.
I haven’t watched the Aussie version so just speaking on LOTS US: i think they did a great job of getting people with different levels of autism as well as finding people that had different paths/journeys regarding when they were diagnosed and what they’ve dealt with/experienced(some early age diagnosis, some diagnosed in their adult years).. in the U.S. version, i noticed Connor was pretty embarrassed with his mom talking about physical touch with his dates, as well as James getting frustrated with his parents constant advice (totally typical with literally anyone) HOWEVER, i never once experienced their parents getting embarrassed with their kids. All of the parents seemed to absolutely be in their kids corner and they would break down in tears of joy when they made one small step towards finding relationships, truly heartwarming stuff.
People gotta give this show a chance and not look too far into it. I do not think the show is making fun of their struggles, i believe its very wholesome. It is one of the FEW reality shows showing people find actually authentic love/relationships who may had never found love without the help of the show.
I think it can be helpful. Dating is a big struggle for a lot of people with autism, particularly if you’re more impacted. We’re disproportionately more likely to be single, virgins, never married, and to have never dated compared to the neurotypical population, and this is especially true if you’re a man with autism.
So I think this show can do a few things. 1. Brings awareness that people with autism do indeed want to date 2. Dating is a struggle for many on the spectrum and 3. There should be more help and resources for autistic people when it comes to improving their romantic life.
I agree. There’s really not enough resources at all for a lot of autistic adults in realms like this. Which is so infuriating and doesn’t make any sense!
I think the show also managed to show the differences between autistic people, making NTs question their (often wrong) beliefs about autism usually derived from fictional characters of pop culture
I am totally with this take.
Don't worry about looking at the camera! I actually find it soooo much more comfortable watching your videos because it doesn't feel like you're staring into my soul lol
same!
I agree. There’s no need to be looking into the camera
You make a good point about the infantilization. I LOVE Pixar movies, so that definitely explains why I was drawn to it. But also a good point that people of a certain age do NOT want to be infantilized.
The bird-chirping in the background ☺️
🎤🐦
I get the impression that part of the show’s message is hope for people with ASD and their families, true love can happen for them and they deserve it like everyone else does.
I agree with you on the critique of the show, but if a high masking person like me would be on that show I wouldn’t necessarily seem autistic. Just maybe a bit “different” in a way people can’t really put a word for. I just come off as a really tired, messy and lazy person honestly. No one ever suspects I’m autistic. They see the mess in my life and a person with low energy and not much motivation. In my head it’s like a storm… I have adhd too. They see a tired person running around and making more of a mess around her than was before.. and some people even say I take over conversations even though I’m really shy?! What’s that about? It’s because I never learned how to know how to take turns and to have a good flow in a conversation. But I never look autistic, just rude and weird 😢 sometimes I even wish I had a more common or stereotypical autistic body language voice and way of being so people would get I’m disabled, not a rude messy person who doesn’t care 😖 I care immensely and I try so hard! That said, I think they had to choose people who appear clearly disabled and in an endearing way so people would be like.. “awhhh that poor soul!” Not like they would with me “omg can she just stop being so lazy and entitled!!!”
Your self description sounds a lot like me. I tried to get a diagnosis this year, but all I got diagnosed for was depression, with mentions on the side about autistic and ADHD tendencies. I still suspect I have AuDHD, which I think causes my depression. Still, I don't know for sure, and often feel like an imposter. Your comment helped make me feel less alien, and like I probably trulychave AuDHD.
Also, I agree on that last part too. I've read/heard many people criticizing the show for being patronizing, and portraying the participants as adorable. In truth I think it's a fine line to walk, between making autistic people seem unbearable on the one hand, and adorably helpless on the other. If I had to choose between one of the two extremes I'd definitely go with the latter one, not only because I think it's less harmful, but also closer to the truth.
Thank you for your comment :)
Yes this makes so much sense. I really don’t think the show should be criticized because of how far on the spectrum the people are. Obviously it makes for a better show if the people are obviously autistic. I’d actually love to watch something about more functional autistic people dating too but that’s a different show.
The participants in the show seem fully capable of consent. I was once a part of a documentary (not about neurology) and wasn't too happy with the editing, but I did consent to it. They had more than 70 hours of me and had to reduce to about 20 minutes, so I knew the editing would *inevitably* frame things through the eyes of others. The agency of the Autistic participants almost never gets addressed in these discussions; even those who strongly dislike the show are often talking ABOUT the participants and not letting them speak for themselves. As I see it, Autistic people chose to be a part of the series and have every right to make that choice and speak about it afterwards.
I found your channel recently and love it ❤️ Im in the process of being diagnosed with ASD and never suspected it until about a year ago - your monologues make me feel normal!
I think it can be infantilizing at times but I really enjoyed watching it. I loved seeing other fellow autistics navigate the dating world.
Can i ask how it can be infantilizing?
People like me who are dying inside while adhering to societal norms, thank you for all that you do. As a minority woman whos mexican ameican I am see so much of myself in you. Everything you say is spot on us woman of lower economic backgrounds are invisible. We don't exist. Much less be autistic, which explains why I was ganged up on so many times on work. I have a bachelors degree and compete on the same playing fields these NTs. NTs can be so cruel, and I have gotten by to the point that I was so burned out with adrenal fatigue, the state covered my diagnosis which I finally got. I plan to eventually do what you are as soon as I get my life more in order. I would love to meet your or collab one day on youtube you are a Godsend.
hey I know its hard, but its not worth putting your mask on at the cost of your mental health, I wish you the best and I hope you to get the help needed if you need
You are awesome person love your intelligent videos I was diagnosed ( late ) with autism a few years ago and videos like yours help me make sense of the world love you so much thank you
Im 32, and have had so many of your experiences too
I work in a company that is very autism-inclusive, and I feel the need to share. For the last couple of years, we got an email from our board of directors, inviting us for an opportunity on the show. The way it was framed, I had the takeaway that it was a documentary, and being a little scared of my personal love life, I turned it down. I personally want the people on the show to find love, and I don't hold any part of the experience away from them. I wish I can find love myself, I'm glad for the autistic individuals who found help, I'm just wondering, Who is out there that really cares about me?
As a high masking autistic I really admired the individuals profiled (I haven’t watched all the seasons.)
Honestly, I didn’t appreciate all of the editing choices, but I think there is something to be said for radical visibility. It also makes me examine my own internalized ableism.
And I think it’s a disservice to frame all media as having the goal of entertainment. Maybe I’m being a bit pedantic here, but could what some are labeling as entertainment be considered compelling?.. I respect the individuals I saw and I found their stories compelling.
Also, it’ll be news to no one in the community, but those who want to bully and infantilize us are going to do so bc they’re assholes.
Instead, if you are super high masking they’ll just say you’re not autistic. So we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
I’m over trying to convince anyone, including NTs (not that they’re all assholes) to accept me or give me permission to exist.
We’re allowed to be visible (maybe not all of us in all situations, but let’s at least press for that visibility.)
Ok, love vibes to all ❤ stay chill folks 😊
As an autistic person, while I found elements of the show a bit icky and condescending I was overall pretty cool with it. I enjoyed getting to see weirdos like me on my tv and being able to actually relate to people instead of feeling like an outsider
I really appreciate the nuances of your cancel culture take! I'm AuDHD and work as a neuroemergence guide and I recently came across your channel, I think looking for takes on neurodivergence and personality typing systems (a special interest!) What you say about the changing dynamics is especially important-it's unfortunate that there's so much fighting where anyone who uses the term cancel culture then gets pegged as a right-winger who hates social justice, because I think a lot of us who've gotten frustrated with it really are just speaking to the aggressive and fear-based nature of it, while still very much being grounded in principles of justice and liberation.
I'm trans, neurodivergent, disabled, queer, and passionate about ending racism and colonialism and capitalism, but I also experienced the burnout and breakdown of being in social justice-oriented communities where were so focused on getting it right that many of us were falling apart. Especially with autistic sensitivity and RSD it turned into a whole perfect storm personally of "I just want to do the right thing, and that's impossible!" and then feeling like I had no support and didn't deserve any. Yikes! Whereas of course the key to transforming a lot of these harmful systems is trust and relationship and community. It's been really healing to become aware of how punishment culture language gets internalized and creates these dynamics, but it's still tough when I know people are experiencing real pain and real oppression to say "I actually need to step out of the virtual room for a moment," and there's always that autistic justice meter going "are you doing enough? are you going too far in the other direction?"
As for the show, I felt very mixed as well. Some of the editing felt a little patronizing, or like the audience is supposed to empathize with the neurotypicals more than the autistic people. On the other hand I really liked that they showcased an autistic professional, and I've forgotten all the names but I LOVE the one blonde woman in the most recent season who's all about her dog and her best friend and annoyed at the country boys. She reminds me so much of me and my friends, I want to be like "...have you considered the queer dark side?" 😂
As someone with 2 autistic brothers, I love this show. I love the representation. It shows autistic individuals as whole ppl and doesnt mock their needs. Its not infantalizing. Everyone is meeting them where they are. Did it occur to the critics that those with low support needs or are high functioning are maybe already in relationships or are undiagnosed and that's why they're not in the show? Like if my dad was born today, i think he would he have been diagnosed as autistic, but he's lived a full, successful life and has been happily married to my mom for over 3 decades. Maybe to add another layer to the show, they could interview autistic ppl already in long term relationships.
I remember when we were routinely sterilized for even having severe learning dissabilities and it was openly discussed in scientific literature. I wrote a paper on Learning disabilities and read these Textbooks as a person with severe ADD.. We have to start somewhere. In my country We lose most of our Social security benefits if we get married in the twentieth century think about it!
I love the show! I’ve always really loved dating shows in general because I think finding love in a romantic partner is such an important thing. I personally haven’t struggled with dating but I know that it’s a lot harder for autistic men. I really like the idea of everyone being able to find their special someone. I actually really liked all the parents other than conners mom. She’s the kind of woman that just wants to make her son “normal” and it’s no wonder he’s so anxious.
I'm on the high end of the spectrum and have lived with it my whole life. I was diagnosed as a toddler ironically because my parents thought I was deaf since I didnt respond as most toddlers do. I had to deal with 16 intense years of not only behavorial therapy but also speech therapy since I couldn't speak very well and still struggle with stuttering. I had to be enrolled in special classes in school to help me get decent grades and to help me manage school life in regards to interacting with other students. Even with all the help my parents tried to get me, I still can't handle social gatherings, was prone to being bullied and can't make friends easily. I'm also apparently too honest with how I feel about certain things that it upsets other people if they don't like being criticized. I've only interacted with one other person on the spectrum and we became very close because we understand each other as well as share many hobbies.
My dad never really came to terms with my disability. He didn't mistreat me or anything but I dont think he ever fully understood what I've had to deal with and what life is like for me. As a result he tried to raise me like a normal child like my sister and got frustrated when I had breakdowns or did things he thought was not appropriate like still having dolls into my teen and adult years. I told him that dolls were a source of comfort for me, and my mom told him this too, but he didn't believe it and thought I was being immature.
But Love on the Spectrum, he told me, really helped him finally understand that some of my quirks are just who I am. In each of the people featured on the show he said he saw me in them in various forms. He told me he never meant to hurt me if he had over how I was treated by him growing up. I never held it against him though: he was just a dad doing the best he could with a child on the spectrum.
As for my personal opinion on the show: I've tried to watch it but I have to keep stopping. Probably because I never really interacted with other people on the spectrum besides my friend, it was a bit jarring to see people who were like me. I feel a bit overwhelmed with some of them and how they are trying to get by in this world.
I do relate with having a dad that just doesn’t get it. My dad always said “you’re so shy!” And he’d say it in a way that made me feel like I was doing something wrong. The thing is, I wasn’t shy. I never felt shy but I operated differently because of autism. Over the years I developed shyness and a lot of social anxiety because of years of being made to feel like a weirdo who couldn’t do anything right in social situations. I can honestly say that NOW I am shy and anxious. They should have classes or something that teach people how to raise autistic kids because parents and other adults (like teachers) can do so much damage by accident.
ASD is also genetic, so the parents may have their own social anxieties.
I think it would be good to explore having an autism led and developed alternative show to Love On The Spectrum.
Moreover, it would be good if the autistic individuals featured could in addition to being paid the going rate for their participation, have some options by which to protect their identity / be involved in editing decisions.
Quite frankly even non autistic individuals would find it hard having cameras in their face in such a potentially emotionally vulnerable situation for it to then be televised to all and sundry.
I just discover your channel and i'm watching all of your videos bc I can relate so much to you and your experiences. My diagnosis now is bipolar type II, BPD and OCD (but this one is kinda confusing to me because my psycologist said that I was ocd on my personality, no my behavior), but for a while I've been suspecting that I may be autistic or adhd. Anyways, I watched the show (the US and AU version) a couple of weeks ago and I have mixed feelings about it. I loved it, sometimes it felt really authentic and empathetic, but in some situations I felt weird and cringy. In one particular ocasion I discovered that I felt that way bc the coach or the psycologist that helped some of them was trying to make them look and act as a neurotypical person would. When I realized that, I felt so bad and I understood where the cringy feeling came from. Instead of embracing some of the differences in the cast personalities, they were trying to erase them. The show could've been so much inclusive if the coaches would teach them to communicate their struggles instead of etiquette rules (wich I personally find so unnecesary in life). Even when for the most part they were dating autistic people too, it could've been a better aproach to teach them how to find what works for them. It would look like an acomodation for the dating experience and I believe that would help a lot of people to learn about the uniqueness of the human experience too.
I think that I have a lot to say on that specific topic bc I'm all about diversity, but also because I'm a filmmaker, so I feel that I can see more the intention of the show and just infuriates me to think that they were trying to make it more about the entertainment rather than genuine interest on knowing about autistic people.
sorry if my comment can sound rude, that wasn't my intention, english is not my first lenguage (spanish is) so I struggled a little bit with finding the right words to express myself. I'm just passionate about equality, respect and diversity, and I think that in some moments the show lack of these. But, of course I also think is a good start on representation of non fictional autistic people.
Good point about getting them to act neurotypical with other autistic ppl. It would be like 2 native english speakers who barely know french, trying to speak to each other in french instead of english.
Is this creating a spectacle while at the same time going for appearence of autheticity. I am not saying they are actors. I say they chose candidates that would stir up the content with getting people with certain additional probrlms to give it a more spicy profile.
The candidates were bot random but cursyed to create fuss.
Thats why I hate it.
I just watched the two seasons and I have mixed feelings. Overall I would say I thought positively of the show and I found it very entertaining. I am 42 and just got diagnosed autistic this year so I have been finding it very interesting to learn more about autism.
I agree they should have had more of a sort of diversity with the types of personalities with the autistic people. They were all particularly sweet and innocent and I can’t say that’s a terrible thing because I have been told I have a childlike nature myself and I would agree. I’m a teacher and I honestly feel more of a connection to a lot of my students than I do many adults. But I have had autistic friends and family members over the years and we are not always so sweet or seemingly unaware of some things.
I could see myself agreeing to participate in the show though just to have more opportunities to date and to have a unique life experience so it isn’t like the participants did not feel some benefit to being a part of this.
I felt very awkward or uncomfortable with some parts of the show just watching it for various reasons. Some moments were just sort of cringey and maybe some reminded me of how awkward I must be myself. Also I didn’t like how overly involved I felt some of the parents were with their grown children’s dating lives. I would feel so embarrassed if my parents were knowing and asking as much as those parents did.
I cannot make eye contact to save my goddamn life and had no idea how any of these people could with the camera or even other people they were dating. But I was never diagnosed late was diagnosed in early early childhood. I'm starting to realize just how messed up this show actually is. I do feel like it was patronizing abd infantalizing their adult child. I was trying to be positive about it but now I just cannot ignore it anymore. Maybe I was just too desperate to watch once I noticed they had used the infinity loop symbol instead of the puzzle piece. I've just realized that I've been much too desperate for media for autistics about autistics...i hate how my standards have been set so low cause they've literally given us the bare minemum. Idk. As a high support needs autistic its really sad to see this kind of explotation done to other autistics. For just NT to see and watch for their intertainment or inspo porn
the more struggling people with AUTISM often cant get tested because they don't have the money or have tol wait and are denied the support by some very vocal members of the community.!
I think the problem is that it’s a reality show and they’re going to try and entertain neurotypical people. When we watch it, it just feels like they’re having natural interactions and it’s nice but it seems the show plays some of those interactions for laughs. And when I see neurotypical people react to the show it’s like ohh hahaha they don’t get social stuff, or sarcasm, or look how blunt they are. So if anything that’s the issue.
Where’s your lamp from pls 👀❤
I liked the show but agree with peoples views on the infantilization. I watched it with my friends and my husband. We started to look into autism after the show because my husband noticed that he may be on the spectrum. We both identify as neurodivergent now. I was diagnosed with NVLD in Aug 2022
Oddly enough, before I discovered that I may be autistic, I wanted to watch that show and put it on my watch list. Fast forward to 2023 and I'm an undiagnosed autistic and I DON'T want to watch it. I'm still in the early stages where I'm struggling with the idea that autism is considered a "disability" even though I know there levels to it. Some are higher needs than others. I only struggle with the idea because I simply see the world and communicate differently, and whose to say that's a disability? Whose to say what's "normal?" Maybe we're the "normal" ones? Anyways the point being that I struggle with the idea that they may pick higher needs autistics for entertainment purposes, so I haven't bothered to watch it.
YES 🔥🔥🔥 I say this all the time in regard to mental health, as a person who has been called “crazy” by others (mostly NT ppl) I’m like well what if we are sane and the “normal” (typical) ppl are the ones who are illogical, unrealistic and contradictory 😅bc that is the way I see others as a neurodivergent person.
Also, I meant to comment on your statement about Neurodivergence NOT being a disability! 👏🏻 I think Irene said something similar in another video, that people who are neurodivergent are not disabled it’s just that we are forced to live and produce in a society set up for Neurotypical people. Our environment is actually what disables us, not our diagnosis and this is specifically true under capitalism!!!
Maybe it’s just that I attract neurodivergent people as one myself, but we are all anti-capitalist, and I see a correlation between people who are neurotypical are more likely not anti-capitalist or at least don’t take a stand so by default (IMO) they aren’t anti-capitalist.
It seems that most of the infantilization occurred in post-production (music, voiceover, marketing, etc) and THOSE areas, the areas that are the set dressing for the viewer, are JUST as important (if not more so because it's subtle/subliminal) in shaping public perception of autistics. Also - who the showrunner is is VERY impactful as they are the one's shaping the narrative (editing, what questions are being asked during confessionals, etc). It's likely there was virtually no autistics BEHIND the camera and THAT is the problem.
Just like any shows/movies with gay, trans, poc, etc good representation does not mean the talent in front of the camera. Representation is ESSENTIAL in ALL areas of production!
I wasn’t a fan it sorta felt like they were making a nature documentary out of these people
I liked the show a lot more than “The Undateables”, which is an older UK equivalent of Love on the Spectrum. Not that the former is a bad show or something I am morally against, but it’s just not that nuanced. It’s also very much a part of the shallow group of British lifestyle programming which hams up the entertainment factor rather than portraying a fully accurate and in-depth depiction of the topic. LOTS, however, surprised me with its presentation. They seem to take a lot more care when displaying the individuals seeking love. It feels like a lot more attention and effort went into portraying that autism is in fact a spectrum disorder. There are people all over the spectrum on that show, and I like how it shows the process of trying to coach the clients on social cues and advising them on how to go about their dates. I find that, no matter how ethical a project is, some individuals with always infantilise autistic individuals by getting angry about jokes or media which they think is offensive to our sensibilities. What happens is people end up stigmatising autism even more by trying to shield us from the rest of society. By telling neurotypicals they can’t tell certain jokes, make certain documentaries, or even talk about autism in general, they’re removing our autonomy and inhibiting our full integration into society.
I thought the parents were great in the Australian version, especially Michael's mom from the aus version, you could tell his mother really loves him. I thought the cast from aus showed different aspects of the spectrum. I could see myself in a few of the characters. What I'm not much of a fan of the US version. I feel like both shows are wholesome and sweet, I'm happy to be represented, but the US version seems very staged and seems more exploitive. There's something "off" about Connor's family. The issue I have is how everyone on both shows are upper middle class and I keep wondering how the cast with autism got involved in the show and if it was something they wanted to do, or if they were talked into it.
I'll tell you. For a lot of these people who see someone make an insensitive mistake and then jump on that person and hurl abuse at them, the reason people do it is not to fix problems, not to help people learn. It is to bully. It is to feel good by hurting someone else, and strengthen their bond with people that do likewise. And they think they have found targets whom they can bully guilt-free. They don't say, "This system where some people hurt others is wrong, and it needs to stop." They say, "This system where some people hurt others is WONDERFUL! And it needs to continue! The only thing that needs to change is, WE should be the ones who get to hurt others!"
And of course, this is one of the most efficient ways to convince someone that they are right and you are an asshole.
I wish they show low needs level 1 autisic people on the show.
So confused about who is attacking. Maybe I'm just not on those corners of the internet. None of the comments you read sounded like an attack to me. Just constructive criticism. Disagreement isn't an attack.
How about be happy that are you even been shown as part of society not just a burden on families, as previous narrative!! Be happy for progress and push forward for more. With more people on your side because of this exposure from these types of shows. Without these shows many people would still think it is fake issue, just bad behavior caused by bad parenting. Without shows like these people would still be uneducated about what ASD is or looks like... Lets he happy for forward movement even if its not perfect directions or perfect perspectives. Without forward movement we will die standing still or rot in the past.....
Isn't there a guy named Steve Spitz on the series, I don't know if it's true, but on Reddit, they say he is a guy in his 60s and never had a girlfriend before, is it true?
If so, it's another cruel and harsh reminder how a guy can be normal looking but he can still struggle to get a girlfriend
@Eru O I haven't seen any episodes of the series yet, did he reject a woman on the show? Or was this a woman he rejected from many years ago? I wonder if they were any women that were interested in him when he was much younger