Kaliningrad, city, seaport, and administrative centre of Kaliningrad oblast (region), Russia. Detached from the rest of the country, the city is an exclave of the Russian Federation....Good call out 😊
Thank you for the video as always Cap. I was going to hold my comments for the entire video, but the Typhoon being taken out by a 400 knot R-37M pushed me over the edge hah. It really highlights how terrible DCS AI are at BVR. No legitimate NATO pilot with appropriate support (radar, AWACS, air controller, etc.) in the world would ever be caught dead engaging a one-trick pony (Mig-31) with R-37Ms and response by flying at 20,000 feet at stall speeds. Put someone like Growling Sidewinder in those jets, assessing the threat, and they would run cold or coordinate with the rest of the flight to establish a firing line and bait line, running those lower agility missiles out of energy while the Mig's would have a lower chance per their aforementioned (by you) kinematic ability to avoid threats. You deserve a better game Cap! Your efforts exceed what DCS is capable of.
Yeah I have seen this from the Eurofighter before, something in the mod doesn't mesh with the AI. They end up fighting down at stall speed all the time, its makes them sitting ducks. As you say in real life this aircraft would traverse the altitude layers very fast up and down to defend and attack, that's what all that performance is for!
- S400 within artillery range won’t happen. And even further away it would be a priority target for F35 and cruise missiles. - Patriot bought by Poland is PAC3 MSE Love you videos!
Define artillery range? Both sides have systems that have ranges of 300km in terms of Atacms, Smerch. Iskander. Russia is quite capable of performing artillery standoff to 70km with Lancet and nato with switchblade and brimstone. Missiles can strike Germany or Moscow the moment it’s hot.with missiles and drones launched north of Latvia and south of the west of the Netherlands.No where is “safe” from artillery. A pointless statement really. The reality is Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania wouldn’t exist anymore. Russia wouldn’t waste the time even assaulting them. And likely the first third of Poland wouldn’t exist. for there to even be artillery. Belarus Kaliningrad are wasteland. From tactical nuclear weapons. There wouldn’t be satellites to do Cruise missile strikes. Any strikes would be 10-30m CEP of Inertial guidance on possible locations from +7 days intelligence. If there’s even a world left. The war is so bloody and destructive peace is probably Signed within a year and the Baltic states no longer exist and the World divides into hard east and west with the border defined a radioactive exclusion zone larger then Ukraine. a new Cold War in the fallout that destroys the world economy. And everyone wonders why the fuck it was started in the first place just to reduce the world population by 30 million. Russian doctrine is very clear when confronting a first tier power. they open with nuclear and emp the Atmosphere with Graphite nukes to decapitate Airpower and Smart weapon strikes. Before Their industry or economy can be destroyed. Those are the ones on the mobile Land launchers. Armageddon is on the submarines and silos. If the S400 sites that close to the border its only purpose is to be a target for counter battery radars to work and to preform stand off with the batteries in Kaliningrad to prevent a preemptive strike. They’re sacrificial anodes. Anything west of Saint Petersburg and east of Warsaw is gone the moment this theoretical war starts. That is why it hasn’t started. Because no one wins. The sad fact about Ukraine is. No one really cares what happens to them. They’re not worth saving with war in the ruling classes eyes. Ukraine is as sacrificial to Europe as Belarus is to Russia. Russia has wiped their hands of them. Poland is happy they’re not the ones being slaughtered or nuked. Ukraines been irrelevant on the world stage since 1991. Georgia has seen what’s happened to Ukraine and wants no part of it. Any active conflict between NATO and Russia or Russia and China (which almost happens in early 2000) is very different. Theres no play fighting. Putin told Xixingping in 2008 when China said they were owed Vladivostok various times with more intensity since 2006 in no uncertain terms that if China even moved an army to their border they would not fight them. They would just nuke China. They would nuke Vladivostok. No matter the outcome. The world would burn and the Chinese would lose before they held an inch of Russian soil. Russia and China were still very sour in 2014. I hope this illustrates the futility of arguing over small gun ammunition in a war that would start with nuclear weapons.
Kaliningrad was German, Prussian to be exact (at least before WW2), after the war, the Russian FSSR of the USSR took it directly, more or less for its strategic value. So when the Germans were unsettled and deported, most of the new population was Russian. They've also built nuclear facilities there during the Cold War, as well as nuclear weapons sites. After the fall of the USSR, all of the Russian Federative Soviet Socialist Republic turned into what is now Russia, which included the Kaliningrad Oblast, since it was filled with Russians, nobody really wanted it tbh, and Russia would not give it up, considering its strategic value.
I think they offered it to one of the nato countries at one point that said "no thanks" because the Soviets had forced out the true native locals and replaced them with ethnic russians. I think it was lithuania and they did not want to add that many russians to their population for obvious reasons
I expect that when Ukraine finishes destroying the russian economy and military, that one of the terms of russian surrender will be either giving up Kaliningrad entirely, or more likely the complete demilitarization of the enclave. Other things we can expect to help ensure russia doesn't try again in ten or twenty years with whatever military aged citizens they manage to birth would include forbidding russia to use Belarus to base assets, forbidding russia to export arms in general, and the institution of a dmz of 100km inwards from all russian land borders, subject to inspection and the destruction of any military personnel of assets found within 100km of any neighbouring nation. That in addition to the return of Crimea, the Donbas, the payment of massive reparations, and hopefully the confiscation of their nuclear forces. Wishful thinking? Probably not. Russia will collapse militarily and economically very soon, has passed the tipping point at which they could have recovered from their blunder already. Soon Russia will be unable to defend their economic infrastructure entirely (as opposed to just doing it very poorly) and Ukraine can literally just keep blowing things up in russia until the surrender and submit to drastic demilitarization and confiscation. And every European nation not in Russia's pocket will support them, until russia gives up their ability to project power outside it's borders entirely. Russia might emply tactical nukes in Ukraine, but that would simply bring the local powers in early, Poland is slavering at the thought of erasing russian military powe, and turkey among the other potential stakeholders will only gain power with russian decline. The Eastern Europeans and possibly turkey, acting under the protection of the NATO nuclear umbrella, would be the actual end of russia entirely. This might actually be the most desirable outcome, as I suspect most of us are tired of russia and their imperial ambitions and hybrid warfare bullshit, and lets face it, between Ukraine, Poland, and some air defence and strike aircraft from the others, Russia would be toast in weeks.
Interesting exercise but that S-400 would most certainly be targeted by ground to ground missiles or long range cruise. We've seen S-400 defeated multiple times without exposing aircraft.
@@Remix2366 I mean Cap himself comments that the scenario is not realistic, the creator od the scenario states that the russian aircraft are grossly overpowered and do not reflect reality, and everyone knows that Europe outnumbered the Russians overwhelmingly even before the Russians lost a ton of airframes and pilots, and degraded their air assets substantially by being so foolish as to invade Ukraine...
If you watch the video from the start, you will see that the request didn’t include them, and the role play doesn’t need them. He wants it to be focused, so let’s just let cap do what he does best and enjoy the video rather than critiquing it all. 👍
Amazing. Love your videos CAP. You were talking about people wanting to fly the older jets more and there is a great scenario from the Tom Clancy book “The Bear and the Dragon” in chapter 55. The gist is that in 2002 there is a flight of 4 F-15C’s on air to air patrol in Siberia (Russia joined NATO…) with 8 AM-RAAMs each and a couple of sidewinders and behind them there is an E-3B Sentry. There is a flight F-16CG’s flying near the Sentry but they are mostly air to ground, but have a couple of sidewinders and a cannon. About 26 Chinese J-8’s (Chinese versions of the MIG-21) are spotted about 250 miles out and are trying to get at the AWACS. The J-8’s split to distract the Eagles while the rest try to get to the AWACS. I think it would be a fun scenario to run with players in the f-15’s and f-16’s trying to defend against this with the f-16’s the last line but with only their Sidewinders (being laden with bombs).
If you watch the video from the start, you will see that the request didn’t include them, and the role play doesn’t need them. He wants it to be focused, so let’s just let cap do what he does best and enjoy the video rather than critiquing it all. 👍
I'm not sure if those are available for DCS. Making a plane in this game is very difficult (at least if you want it to be even remotely satisfying to fly) and it is a fairly niche game, so maybe they just aren't available.
@@davidcanoy8579 If thats the reason then drop the Spanish ME2000... those are unlikely to fight on that front... The Gripen would be one of the first planes in combat in that area.... He wants to represent reality then make it more real...
@@kieranwheatcroft3703 The person who requested the video based his request on what could really happen in that area... if the US isn't involved then we should expect Sweden and Finland to utilize their air force to safeguard the Suwałki Gap and Poland to utilize their ground forces.
Cap, don’t worry about your voice. I’ve been watching this channel for a pretty long time and haven’t ever noticed your voice changing, or making the content worse. Thanks for making great videos for us! Keep it up Cap
The UK doesn't have typhoons. (If you think UK weather sucks, try living in Japan, which does have them.) No, it's just because the RAF likes to name all its aircraft. Other countries tend not to do this.
Dear Super Cap: Kaliningrad is not an independent country, it comprises territory that was formerly part of east Prussia, and after the Second World War was directly annexed into the Russian SSR within the USSR. Thus after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Kaliningrad remained a part of the Russian Federation, much as Crimea as an Oblast of the Ukrainian SSR would become a Oblast of independent Ukraine after 1991.
Very good aircraft you rarely hear anything about. I know ukraine correctly prioritised f16s and dismissed using eurofighters at first but I wonder if the question will come back around
CAP I know you probably don't want to talk about it and I don't blame you brother but people are really really bugging out here about your HEALTH!!!! Can you please give us something for information about how your doing I am worried about you man we all are right everone give a thumbs 👍 if your worried about cap ?
For short range, Spain and Germany are using IRIS-T missiles (very similar to ASRAAM). Spain is using AIM-120B and Meteor in Eurofighter, but in the scenario you are playing, the most probable is Meteor and IRIS-T. Spain also use Thales Scorpion helmet, with line of sight target designation. About the naming, the program was called EFA (European Fighter Aircarft), Eurofighter, EF2000 (Eurofighter 2000) and then the British decided they need a name for an aircraft any else needed to be named, and they use the name of an aircraft which had harrased Germany 60 years before. Germans use Eurofighter, Spain and Italy EF2000 and UK the name they wanted (but nobody else uses it).
Patrior interceptors actually dont need guidance after a certain point. they have internal sensors and can change between guidance. They can guide on Jam or radar reception. There was a video on this on another channel from data provided by patriot operators.
@@greybuckleton I don't know that he has cancer. I respect his privacy. I haven't seen him be specific openly. I only know he has a health problem that centers around his ability to speak.
Cap, I would love to see a rerun of your carrier defense interceptor competition, now including the Super Hornet and AIM-174. Perhaps if the first 8 or 12 aircraft just carried 2x -174 and 2x -120D keep them fast and reflect the limited supply of the big sticks. Good work! Sorry you can't sim as much as before.
All good except no one in NATO is allowed to place down any red lines, because America is blocking NATO taking any action or measure to even stop RU from sabotage inside any NATO country. RU can freely perform attacks and sabotage with out a single repercussion. Smart world we currently live in where nuclear and political blackmail is the norm.
With the number of assets we have in Europe the U.S. would be the first in conflict and towing the line, he’s dead wrong on a few days delay tho cap your situation is infinitesimally more possible
If you want a reason for the USA to stay out of the conflict at first maybe it's because China and/or India has threatened to join Russia if the US gets involved. The US would probably still get involved, but it would probably delay to reinforce the Pacific
We don't need an upgraded Phoenix, we made an SM6 air to air/ground/ship. It's range is nearly a hundred miles farther than the F-18's carrying it can see.
Russian armed forces product is designed as of nerds in a video game. They are stats optimized. This is really a result of top control. For instance a T72 tank have excellent power to performance, excellent armor thickens, and excellent fire power. So it looks like its a excellent tank on a glance. The issue is that it have poor human interface, poor visibility, sub par instruments, its cramped, it lack gun depression, it slow backing up. It don´t shield it IR emissions and so on. So that is basically the reason why it look superior to say the Leopard and Abrams on paper, but is not in reality. For planes like the SU57 there is somewhat of a similar story, but not quite. First plane few in 2010. But that was not really a Su57, but more of a prof of concept plane, say what the YF22 is to the F22. The YF22 first flight was in 1990, F22 first flight was in 1997, and it was introduced in 2005. 15 year from concept to introduction. Su57 concept first flew in 2010, it was introduced in 2020, but wait, here is a catch. The aircraft is not quite finished yet. They are still developing subsystems for it, mostly the engine, that will be available at the earliest 2026. So that make the aircraft introduced before its finished. This is actually how it usually goes in Russian airforce. There is no right or wrong way of doing this. One sort of "advantage" of doing it this way is that it make it look that Russias development cycles are shorter and they introduce advance stuff sooner... The sort of "disadvantage" is that its really not the case. At the same time Su57 have supposed good range, good radar, and good thrust to weight, and high top speed, high G force rating. The issue is again if you look a bit closer on it, its not that simple. Firstly, if we compare Su57 to the F22, its much more reheater dependant getting 60% of the power from rehater compare to 30% from F22, that provide a clean top speed of mach 1.3 to 1.8 for F22. That is quite a large diffrance. Even with no reheat the engine of the F22 have a ~30% better efficiency, a diffrance that increase on reheat. And remember, we comparing a 20 year old aircraft with one that is technically not finished yet.
Correction Cap, the F-35 has a confirmed flight test done recently by the U.S. Airforce where the plane hit 1480MPH or about Mach 1.93 The top speed for the F-35 needs to be updated. Its a big difference on speed.
The Grim Reapers are probably readers of the Newspaper "The Sun" (With the naked girl on page 3) and probably hate Frenchie’s, that's all !.. it's a kind of tradition of English working class....
If you watch the video from the start, you will see that the request didn’t include them, and the role play doesn’t need them. He wants it to be focused, so let’s just let cap do what he does best and enjoy the video rather than critiquing it all. 👍
Hey GR, could you do a Norway vs Russian CSG battle? Norway may have 1 or 2 NASAMS batteries at their disposal, and while they have a total of 27 F-35As, 12 of them are based in Iceland leaving 15 in the mainland. It could be neat to see 15 F-35As vs 24 MiG-29Ks. Also, regarding the Suwalki Gap and Kaliningrad, Kaliningrad had been directly annexed by the Soviet Union; when the Cold War ended, the Russians actually offered the region to Germany, but the Germans didn't care much for it as the population was mostly Russian then. Germany and Russia then figured that Russia would be better off keeping it.
Why Kaliningrad? Because Europe seems to like leaving troublesome loose ends that trigger a subsequent war after a major geopolitical change. It's like you can't end a movie in a way that doesn't allow for a sequel, right?
Kaliningrad is one of those territores where after WWII we let the soviet union have them and after 91 they wanted to remain under the Russian Federation banner, and have been since.
why did we call it the typhoon? Because we have a sick naming convention for aircraft we may as well keep. Were the planes themselves good? Heh... *cough* But they had awesome names! Meteor, Hunter, Javelin, Lightning, Harrier, Tornado, Typhoon, Tempest (when that thing properly exists again and not just as a ww2 prop fighter), Vulcan etc
We need more 1v1 fights between nations. Turkey vs Greece, France vs UK, Germany vs Russia. People are also a bit quick to think Russia would go nuclear, they forget is can hit an airfield with VX slime and take it out of service for quite a while.
Kaliningrad is Russia's unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Baltic. During the Potsdam conference following end of WW2, it went to Soviets, who repopulated the region after the Prussians/Germans left. Following the fall of the USSR it remained in Russian hands as Lithuania proclaimed independence few months earlier. I believe one of the NATO objectives if war with Russia ever goes hot will be to turn any naval, electronic warfare and surveillance assets as well as airbase in Kaliningrad into scrap metal within first 3-6 hours of the hostilities.
To be honest Europe would win even if the amount of aircraft were the same, Russia doesn't have enough combat ready or combat deployable aircraft left and not to mention the severe lack of experienced pilots. None the less, very entreating
In the scenario, this is a NATO win as 4th/5th gen aircraft can control the airspace over the Suwalki with a pretty high degree of impunity. Additionally, NATO airspace is clear of any offensive SAM threat and can operate further sorties from their eastern most airbases. Financial loss sure, but a massive tactical gain IMO.
A flight of 4 British F-35s at high altitude over Eastern Lithuania ready to throw sticks as soon as the Mig-31s turned towards the Eurofighters would have completely changed this battle I think. With the very similar observability between the Eurofighters and the Migs and the sheer power of the R37s the Europeans had no real chance of winning that engagement, but 4 air to air stealth jets already in firing range could have rained down on the Migs and wiped them out before they got a chance to retaliate. I don't think NATO would ever attempt an air battle with Russa using only 4th gen jets.
Is there any way DCS could model the absolutely stunning and terrifying Russian incompetence? Could they model sergeants and captains selling the explosive reactive armor out of their tanks because they haven’t been paid properly in a decade?
GR, I don't think your premise of the US not joining is plausible at all. For one, it would completely break NATO if their prime adversary can get the biggest member to stay out of a war just by threatening nukes. Nobody would trust the US to uphold any defence agreement after this, especially as it would leave a frankly underarmed Europe to try hold the line itself, and post war be determined to develop its own military industrial complex and potentially NATO like group without the US. Which would leave America with a lot less influence. A much simpler ans better set up is that this strike was a Euro gig because the USAF can't do everything everywhere.
FYI there are 8 NATO fighters constantly stationed within the Baltics, different airforces take turns stationing their jets there in 4 month rotations, for example last year from august to december it was Spanish Typhoons. Mostly they are stationed in Ämari air force base in Estonia but because it's currently getting a overhaul, they are temporarily stationed in Latvia instead. These fighters have to intercept russian jets about 300 times a year because for some dumb reason russia loves to send it's jets into NATO countries's airspace. In any case, Suwalki gap is in a permanent pincer. Not to mention that Kaliningrad is small enough that it can be completely leveled by regular artillery from well within Poland and Latvia.
For everyone talking about standoff weaponry; by your logic, there would be no need for Airborne assets in this battle as there are already U.S. Army Typhon launchers in the baltics & PrSM has been/will be delivered to various countries in 2025. Thus, there would be no need for Air assets; irl, this would be a surface-surface ballistic/cruise missile strike, which wouldnt be very enjoyable, would it? Theses videos are meant for entertainment, after all.
@@dexlab7539 Seeing as Eurofighter is essentially a British Aerospace EAP then after designing and building the prototype we were probably due one. Not Foxtrot Oscar.
That's all nice, but we should start calling the exclave by its proper name, Königsberg. I'm not saying that it has to be returned to Germany. For all it's worth, it could become some sort of Baltic trading hub. Just as long as the Russkies don't get to keep it.
Kaliningrad was German territory (called Konigsberg) until WWII. After the Soviets occupied it, they annexed it into Russia and the German population forcibly relocated. Its large ethnic Russian majority and the strategic value of threatening the Baltic-NATO supply lines and placing military assets a few hundred miles closer to the heart of Western Europe are why Russia continues to hold it.
The constant use of Su-57 bothers me a bit. The aircraft just isn't operational, at least not in any meaningful way. If this is a simulation of a conventional conflict you ought to be using acutal operational airframes. That means Su-27's and Su-35's, not Su-57 that really only exist as a testbed.
Kaliningrad is Russian territory. Also Cap, it appears that the Spanish would have been using IRIS-Ts on their Eurofighters. I am not seeing anything about the ASRAAMs being operated by Spain as of yet. Also they call it different just like the Sherman tank had different names based on which country was using it. For example, Canadian Shermans built under license were called Grizzlies. Also the M3 was Called the Lee or Grant Tank. The PAC-2 missile itself does have a doppler radar so even if the battery radar doesn't have line of sight, the seeker head would. At the end of the day, this mission would have been a failure by NATO and Russia would have been happy with their performance. They could just move another S-400 system into the area whereas it would be hard for NATO to scrounge up 12 more Eurofighters as easily.
@@rebelliousfew A lot of data from air combat over ukraine seems to indicate that R-37 are only really used by VKS fighters to force Ukrainian fighters to go defensive and usually to compromise Ukrainian air missions while keeping VKS assets safe.
I can’t see a scenario where ‘Russia’ launches any nuke outside their main borders. They know exactly what will happen. M.A.D. Has been I thing for decades. No one wins, if so…they would have used a Tactical nuke, but only once and the world suffers. Canadian Army Veteran
This is exactly the danger of Russia. Their cost effective equitment that does equally or even surpass in some aspect for the same job. Their military industry complex has also proven how effective they are in mass producing in short amount of time. NATO may run out quicker due to high cost and at the same time produce slower. Also Russian equitment can be repairable at the field while NATO equtiment mostly must be toed back to the factory. The ugly truth with NATO vs Russia and NATO wouldn't hold up against Russia in long run if the US wasn't apart of NATO but in the long run without involving nuclear weapons NATO would win due to share numbers alone but if China decide to get involved there woun't be any men left to fight.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Nothing like the daily sound of „Valued Viewers“
I hope you're all doing very well.
it‘s „valid viewers“ valid…
Yup
Viewington Wooington Booington.
@@joed1015 I hope you are doing very well!
Kaliningrad isn't a country, it's a Russian oblast.
Kaliningrad, city, seaport, and administrative centre of Kaliningrad oblast (region), Russia. Detached from the rest of the country, the city is an exclave of the Russian Federation....Good call out 😊
Thank you for the video as always Cap.
I was going to hold my comments for the entire video, but the Typhoon being taken out by a 400 knot R-37M pushed me over the edge hah. It really highlights how terrible DCS AI are at BVR. No legitimate NATO pilot with appropriate support (radar, AWACS, air controller, etc.) in the world would ever be caught dead engaging a one-trick pony (Mig-31) with R-37Ms and response by flying at 20,000 feet at stall speeds.
Put someone like Growling Sidewinder in those jets, assessing the threat, and they would run cold or coordinate with the rest of the flight to establish a firing line and bait line, running those lower agility missiles out of energy while the Mig's would have a lower chance per their aforementioned (by you) kinematic ability to avoid threats.
You deserve a better game Cap! Your efforts exceed what DCS is capable of.
Yeah I have seen this from the Eurofighter before, something in the mod doesn't mesh with the AI. They end up fighting down at stall speed all the time, its makes them sitting ducks. As you say in real life this aircraft would traverse the altitude layers very fast up and down to defend and attack, that's what all that performance is for!
- S400 within artillery range won’t happen. And even further away it would be a priority target for F35 and cruise missiles.
- Patriot bought by Poland is PAC3 MSE
Love you videos!
Define artillery range? Both sides have systems that have ranges of 300km in terms of Atacms, Smerch. Iskander.
Russia is quite capable of performing artillery standoff to 70km with Lancet and nato with switchblade and brimstone.
Missiles can strike Germany or Moscow the moment it’s hot.with missiles and drones launched north of Latvia and south of the west of the Netherlands.No where is “safe” from artillery. A pointless statement really.
The reality is Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania wouldn’t exist anymore. Russia wouldn’t waste the time even assaulting them. And likely the first third of Poland wouldn’t exist. for there to even be artillery. Belarus Kaliningrad are wasteland. From tactical nuclear weapons.
There wouldn’t be satellites to do Cruise missile strikes.
Any strikes would be 10-30m CEP of Inertial guidance on possible locations from +7 days intelligence. If there’s even a world left.
The war is so bloody and destructive peace is probably Signed within a year and the Baltic states no longer exist and the World divides into hard east and west with the border defined a radioactive exclusion zone larger then Ukraine. a new Cold War in the fallout that destroys the world economy.
And everyone wonders why the fuck it was started in the first place just to reduce the world population by 30 million.
Russian doctrine is very clear when confronting a first tier power. they open with nuclear and emp the Atmosphere with Graphite nukes to decapitate Airpower and Smart weapon strikes. Before Their industry or economy can be destroyed.
Those are the ones on the mobile Land launchers.
Armageddon is on the submarines and silos.
If the S400 sites that close to the border its only purpose is to be a target for counter battery radars to work and to preform stand off with the batteries in Kaliningrad to prevent a preemptive strike.
They’re sacrificial anodes.
Anything west of Saint Petersburg and east of Warsaw is gone the moment this theoretical war starts.
That is why it hasn’t started. Because no one wins.
The sad fact about Ukraine is. No one really cares what happens to them. They’re not worth saving with war in the ruling classes eyes. Ukraine is as sacrificial to Europe as Belarus is to Russia.
Russia has wiped their hands of them.
Poland is happy they’re not the ones being slaughtered or nuked.
Ukraines been irrelevant on the world stage since 1991.
Georgia has seen what’s happened to Ukraine and wants no part of it.
Any active conflict between NATO and Russia or Russia and China (which almost happens in early 2000) is very different. Theres no play fighting.
Putin told Xixingping in 2008 when China said they were owed Vladivostok various times with more intensity since 2006 in no uncertain terms that if China even moved an army to their border they would not fight them. They would just nuke China. They would nuke Vladivostok. No matter the outcome. The world would burn and the Chinese would lose before they held an inch of Russian soil.
Russia and China were still very sour in 2014.
I hope this illustrates the futility of arguing over small gun ammunition in a war that would start with nuclear weapons.
What a pathetic wall of textual diarrhoea 🤡💩🤣
Kaliningrad was German, Prussian to be exact (at least before WW2), after the war, the Russian FSSR of the USSR took it directly, more or less for its strategic value. So when the Germans were unsettled and deported, most of the new population was Russian. They've also built nuclear facilities there during the Cold War, as well as nuclear weapons sites. After the fall of the USSR, all of the Russian Federative Soviet Socialist Republic turned into what is now Russia, which included the Kaliningrad Oblast, since it was filled with Russians, nobody really wanted it tbh, and Russia would not give it up, considering its strategic value.
True
It’s also one of Russia’s only non freezing ports that side of the country.
I think they offered it to one of the nato countries at one point that said "no thanks" because the Soviets had forced out the true native locals and replaced them with ethnic russians. I think it was lithuania and they did not want to add that many russians to their population for obvious reasons
I expect that when Ukraine finishes destroying the russian economy and military, that one of the terms of russian surrender will be either giving up Kaliningrad entirely, or more likely the complete demilitarization of the enclave. Other things we can expect to help ensure russia doesn't try again in ten or twenty years with whatever military aged citizens they manage to birth would include forbidding russia to use Belarus to base assets, forbidding russia to export arms in general, and the institution of a dmz of 100km inwards from all russian land borders, subject to inspection and the destruction of any military personnel of assets found within 100km of any neighbouring nation.
That in addition to the return of Crimea, the Donbas, the payment of massive reparations, and hopefully the confiscation of their nuclear forces.
Wishful thinking? Probably not. Russia will collapse militarily and economically very soon, has passed the tipping point at which they could have recovered from their blunder already. Soon Russia will be unable to defend their economic infrastructure entirely (as opposed to just doing it very poorly) and Ukraine can literally just keep blowing things up in russia until the surrender and submit to drastic demilitarization and confiscation. And every European nation not in Russia's pocket will support them, until russia gives up their ability to project power outside it's borders entirely.
Russia might emply tactical nukes in Ukraine, but that would simply bring the local powers in early, Poland is slavering at the thought of erasing russian military powe, and turkey among the other potential stakeholders will only gain power with russian decline. The Eastern Europeans and possibly turkey, acting under the protection of the NATO nuclear umbrella, would be the actual end of russia entirely. This might actually be the most desirable outcome, as I suspect most of us are tired of russia and their imperial ambitions and hybrid warfare bullshit, and lets face it, between Ukraine, Poland, and some air defence and strike aircraft from the others, Russia would be toast in weeks.
@@MrNwnwnwnw that is exactly correct.
Interesting exercise but that S-400 would most certainly be targeted by ground to ground missiles or long range cruise. We've seen S-400 defeated multiple times without exposing aircraft.
If were gonna critique these videos based off realism both sides would have performed differently. It's best to just enjoy the video. 🤷🏿♂️
@@Kalergiplansupporter I would agree except when Cap deliberately limits the blue side in the name of being "realistic ".
@@forMacguyveror perhaps you "deliberately" think too much of blue for (or too little of redfor,whichever is)
All high end stuff that was hit on both sides on video is inflatable in Ukraine conflict
@@Remix2366 I mean Cap himself comments that the scenario is not realistic, the creator od the scenario states that the russian aircraft are grossly overpowered and do not reflect reality, and everyone knows that Europe outnumbered the Russians overwhelmingly even before the Russians lost a ton of airframes and pilots, and degraded their air assets substantially by being so foolish as to invade Ukraine...
Hearing your banter brightens up the dark 🇮🇪 evenings Cap. Thank you for your (sim) service
The lack of rafeles disturbs me
If you watch the video from the start, you will see that the request didn’t include them, and the role play doesn’t need them. He wants it to be focused, so let’s just let cap do what he does best and enjoy the video rather than critiquing it all. 👍
Reason: The French wanted to stay home, surprised 😂
The went as fast as possible in the opposite direction
Amazing. Love your videos CAP.
You were talking about people wanting to fly the older jets more and there is a great scenario from the Tom Clancy book “The Bear and the Dragon” in chapter 55.
The gist is that in 2002 there is a flight of 4 F-15C’s on air to air patrol in Siberia (Russia joined NATO…) with 8 AM-RAAMs each and a couple of sidewinders and behind them there is an E-3B Sentry. There is a flight F-16CG’s flying near the Sentry but they are mostly air to ground, but have a couple of sidewinders and a cannon.
About 26 Chinese J-8’s (Chinese versions of the MIG-21) are spotted about 250 miles out and are trying to get at the AWACS. The J-8’s split to distract the Eagles while the rest try to get to the AWACS.
I think it would be a fun scenario to run with players in the f-15’s and f-16’s trying to defend against this with the f-16’s the last line but with only their Sidewinders (being laden with bombs).
good book that
Why are you leaving out Swedish Gripen and french rafaele? these planes are also stationed near that area.
If you watch the video from the start, you will see that the request didn’t include them, and the role play doesn’t need them. He wants it to be focused, so let’s just let cap do what he does best and enjoy the video rather than critiquing it all. 👍
I'm not sure if those are available for DCS. Making a plane in this game is very difficult (at least if you want it to be even remotely satisfying to fly) and it is a fairly niche game, so maybe they just aren't available.
Rafale and Grippen are good planes, but Cap has hardware limits, so he likely dropped what he thought might be ineffective or least effective.
@@davidcanoy8579 If thats the reason then drop the Spanish ME2000... those are unlikely to fight on that front... The Gripen would be one of the first planes in combat in that area.... He wants to represent reality then make it more real...
@@kieranwheatcroft3703 The person who requested the video based his request on what could really happen in that area... if the US isn't involved then we should expect Sweden and Finland to utilize their air force to safeguard the Suwałki Gap and Poland to utilize their ground forces.
I am about 90% certain I know exactly how this will go before I even hit the play button, but I also am about 90% certain I'm going to watch anyway.
these wargames are fantastic demonstrations and I appreciate your insight
would have loved to see some gripens in there but also awesome you stuck pretty much with the script 😀
Cap, don’t worry about your voice. I’ve been watching this channel for a pretty long time and haven’t ever noticed your voice changing, or making the content worse. Thanks for making great videos for us! Keep it up Cap
Why did we call the Eurofighter the Typhoon? Because our weather sucks.
hey!!
The UK doesn't have typhoons. (If you think UK weather sucks, try living in Japan, which does have them.)
No, it's just because the RAF likes to name all its aircraft. Other countries tend not to do this.
I was going to say, if it was named after British weather it'd be called "Dreary" or "Miserable"
That's funny.
@@timonsolus You must be fun at a party.
Dear Super Cap: Kaliningrad is not an independent country, it comprises territory that was formerly part of east Prussia, and after the Second World War was directly annexed into the Russian SSR within the USSR. Thus after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Kaliningrad remained a part of the Russian Federation, much as Crimea as an Oblast of the Ukrainian SSR would become a Oblast of independent Ukraine after 1991.
Love seeing the Typhoons makes a nice change from the American jets
Very good aircraft you rarely hear anything about. I know ukraine correctly prioritised f16s and dismissed using eurofighters at first but I wonder if the question will come back around
CAP I know you probably don't want to talk about it and I don't blame you brother but people are really really bugging out here about your HEALTH!!!! Can you please give us something for information about how your doing I am worried about you man we all are right everone give a thumbs 👍 if your worried about cap ?
Love the use of Tornados. Also a really good battle
Finally spain in a GR video!
For short range, Spain and Germany are using IRIS-T missiles (very similar to ASRAAM). Spain is using AIM-120B and Meteor in Eurofighter, but in the scenario you are playing, the most probable is Meteor and IRIS-T. Spain also use Thales Scorpion helmet, with line of sight target designation.
About the naming, the program was called EFA (European Fighter Aircarft), Eurofighter, EF2000 (Eurofighter 2000) and then the British decided they need a name for an aircraft any else needed to be named, and they use the name of an aircraft which had harrased Germany 60 years before.
Germans use Eurofighter, Spain and Italy EF2000 and UK the name they wanted (but nobody else uses it).
No France? 🥺
France is prepping the foreign legion for a March to Moscow.
Patrior interceptors actually dont need guidance after a certain point. they have internal sensors and can change between guidance. They can guide on Jam or radar reception. There was a video on this on another channel from data provided by patriot operators.
With your personal situation, every new video is deeply appreciated. Your health must come first, then money. Fans must come last.
Is his cancer flaring up again?
@@greybuckleton I don't know that he has cancer. I respect his privacy. I haven't seen him be specific openly. I only know he has a health problem that centers around his ability to speak.
Commenting for the Algorithm to tell it to keep showing you to me daily, darn it!
Cap: please excuse my voice.
Also Cap: proceeds to speak normally.
Add the Nordic countries , Poland and France into the equation :)
How about other smaller countries, like the Dutch and Danish, who also have F-35's😅
I believe we called it the "Eurofighter Typhoon" and our respective countries choose to abbreviate differently.
Just finished reading Debt of Honor. It has some great scenarios to try out I reckon.
Thanks Cap
Thanks
@ CAP and GR. How about a mission incorporating the use of the weapons of the S-3 Viking? Great video :)
The kettle is always on if you ever visit Coningsby again
Cap, I would love to see a rerun of your carrier defense interceptor competition, now including the Super Hornet and AIM-174. Perhaps if the first 8 or 12 aircraft just carried 2x -174 and 2x -120D keep them fast and reflect the limited supply of the big sticks. Good work! Sorry you can't sim as much as before.
Good idea!
The scenario designer is way off base with reality. But it was a fun exercise to watch.
All good except no one in NATO is allowed to place down any red lines, because America is blocking NATO taking any action or measure to even stop RU from sabotage inside any NATO country.
RU can freely perform attacks and sabotage with out a single repercussion.
Smart world we currently live in where nuclear and political blackmail is the norm.
With the number of assets we have in Europe the U.S. would be the first in conflict and towing the line, he’s dead wrong on a few days delay tho cap your situation is infinitesimally more possible
Endless F16 videos get tedious. People want to see the massive amount of European aircraft involved with NATO
Tornado in black with the iron cross is a thing of beauty
Can’t wait for the follow up! Typhoon did not do so well
You seem to have missed a small detail : what about France ?!?!
Just a reminder : France is a founding member of NATO.
Unless not being equipped with F-35s makes France undesirable to join your sim??
But then why Tornado’s and Eurofighters, and not Rafale’s???
Is it you or DCS that has something against the Rafale ?!?
@@joso5554 im a eurofighter fanboy, but i know that the rafale is one of the best too, so im sad that its not featured here aswell
I suspect that Rafale mod might be too out of date or incompatible with other mods, thats why
@@liquidgoose1518 yes, but GS and his fellas edit the mods
Now this is interesting
If you want a reason for the USA to stay out of the conflict at first maybe it's because China and/or India has threatened to join Russia if the US gets involved.
The US would probably still get involved, but it would probably delay to reinforce the Pacific
I agree. I doubt Americans leave the defense of our strategic interest up to the Europeans completely
It might depend on which president gets elected and whether he gets a phone call from his Russian buddy.
@@donkeysunitedyeah Biden would probably bow out.
@@Nr15121: Biden won't be President for much longer (gone by Feb 2025) - so that leaves the other guy.
BINGO! No way US gets involved if Russia and China combine
We don't need an upgraded Phoenix, we made an SM6 air to air/ground/ship. It's range is nearly a hundred miles farther than the F-18's carrying it can see.
Rafales should have been added, IMO.
If only a couple.
Uh, maybe a mirage ?
But how would it look if this it happened in the 50's, 60's, or 70's ?
We might need a Valued series!
Russian armed forces product is designed as of nerds in a video game. They are stats optimized. This is really a result of top control.
For instance a T72 tank have excellent power to performance, excellent armor thickens, and excellent fire power. So it looks like its a excellent tank on a glance. The issue is that it have poor human interface, poor visibility, sub par instruments, its cramped, it lack gun depression, it slow backing up. It don´t shield it IR emissions and so on. So that is basically the reason why it look superior to say the Leopard and Abrams on paper, but is not in reality.
For planes like the SU57 there is somewhat of a similar story, but not quite. First plane few in 2010. But that was not really a Su57, but more of a prof of concept plane, say what the YF22 is to the F22.
The YF22 first flight was in 1990, F22 first flight was in 1997, and it was introduced in 2005. 15 year from concept to introduction.
Su57 concept first flew in 2010, it was introduced in 2020, but wait, here is a catch. The aircraft is not quite finished yet. They are still developing subsystems for it, mostly the engine, that will be available at the earliest 2026. So that make the aircraft introduced before its finished. This is actually how it usually goes in Russian airforce. There is no right or wrong way of doing this. One sort of "advantage" of doing it this way is that it make it look that Russias development cycles are shorter and they introduce advance stuff sooner... The sort of "disadvantage" is that its really not the case.
At the same time Su57 have supposed good range, good radar, and good thrust to weight, and high top speed, high G force rating.
The issue is again if you look a bit closer on it, its not that simple.
Firstly, if we compare Su57 to the F22, its much more reheater dependant getting 60% of the power from rehater compare to 30% from F22, that provide a clean top speed of mach 1.3 to 1.8 for F22. That is quite a large diffrance. Even with no reheat the engine of the F22 have a ~30% better efficiency, a diffrance that increase on reheat. And remember, we comparing a 20 year old aircraft with one that is technically not finished yet.
I mean t-72 did take out an Abrams with one shot
@@marshalljulie3676 well.. yes, and what is the number of T72 taken out?
Hi Cap your beloved Typhoon is getting a new radar
Yay1
Don´t forget: In the Kaliningrad (Königsberg) Oblast is the Harbour of Baltisk (Pillau in German) with the Baltic Fleet.
Correction Cap, the F-35 has a confirmed flight test done recently by the U.S. Airforce where the plane hit 1480MPH or about Mach 1.93
The top speed for the F-35 needs to be updated. Its a big difference on speed.
I just gave it a quick google and everywhere is still reporting M1.6
Thanks cap
The reason for the Diffrent names is that they all use Part of the Name,
The complete name if Eurofighter EF2000 Typhoon
Cap you keep apologising for your voice, it never really sounds different to me.
Plus it's great to listen to for this purpose! Clarity is superb to my ancient ear!
France ???
The Grim Reapers are probably readers of the Newspaper "The Sun" (With the naked girl on page 3) and probably hate Frenchie’s, that's all !.. it's a kind of tradition of English working class....
Poland, Romania, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Turkey
Dude hates France for some reason, doesn't want to include them
If you watch the video from the start, you will see that the request didn’t include them, and the role play doesn’t need them. He wants it to be focused, so let’s just let cap do what he does best and enjoy the video rather than critiquing it all. 👍
They surrendered 1minute into the sim
Odd how the AI Typhoons want to *climb* when a AAM is shot at them...
Hey GR, could you do a Norway vs Russian CSG battle?
Norway may have 1 or 2 NASAMS batteries at their disposal, and while they have a total of 27 F-35As, 12 of them are based in Iceland leaving 15 in the mainland. It could be neat to see 15 F-35As vs 24 MiG-29Ks.
Also, regarding the Suwalki Gap and Kaliningrad, Kaliningrad had been directly annexed by the Soviet Union; when the Cold War ended, the Russians actually offered the region to Germany, but the Germans didn't care much for it as the population was mostly Russian then. Germany and Russia then figured that Russia would be better off keeping it.
I am quite certain my daughter and I saw a Tornado flying over our neighborhood in the Netherlands last week.
Why Kaliningrad? Because Europe seems to like leaving troublesome loose ends that trigger a subsequent war after a major geopolitical change. It's like you can't end a movie in a way that doesn't allow for a sequel, right?
Your voice sounds the same as always. There's no need to apologize for it.
It's about getting air dominance and the removal of the S400, in that case it was worth it.
Kaliningrad is one of those territores where after WWII we let the soviet union have them and after 91 they wanted to remain under the Russian Federation banner, and have been since.
why did we call it the typhoon? Because we have a sick naming convention for aircraft we may as well keep.
Were the planes themselves good? Heh... *cough*
But they had awesome names! Meteor, Hunter, Javelin, Lightning, Harrier, Tornado, Typhoon, Tempest (when that thing properly exists again and not just as a ww2 prop fighter), Vulcan etc
We need more 1v1 fights between nations. Turkey vs Greece, France vs UK, Germany vs Russia. People are also a bit quick to think Russia would go nuclear, they forget is can hit an airfield with VX slime and take it out of service for quite a while.
Kaliningrad is Russia's unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Baltic. During the Potsdam conference following end of WW2, it went to Soviets, who repopulated the region after the Prussians/Germans left. Following the fall of the USSR it remained in Russian hands as Lithuania proclaimed independence few months earlier.
I believe one of the NATO objectives if war with Russia ever goes hot will be to turn any naval, electronic warfare and surveillance assets as well as airbase in Kaliningrad into scrap metal within first 3-6 hours of the hostilities.
Russia kept Kaliningrad(Konigsberg) homie, its pretty interesting to read about.
To be honest Europe would win even if the amount of aircraft were the same, Russia doesn't have enough combat ready or combat deployable aircraft left and not to mention the severe lack of experienced pilots.
None the less, very entreating
As usual not enough electronic countermeasures or command and control, in favor of bravado. It's a game after all...
Fookin TORNAADOOOO.
Love a Tonka
Eurofighter pilots were exceptionally stupid today, flying around really slowly at high AoA just begging to be clobbered by long range missiles…
Yeh that was pretty stupid.
In the scenario, this is a NATO win as 4th/5th gen aircraft can control the airspace over the Suwalki with a pretty high degree of impunity. Additionally, NATO airspace is clear of any offensive SAM threat and can operate further sorties from their eastern most airbases. Financial loss sure, but a massive tactical gain IMO.
A flight of 4 British F-35s at high altitude over Eastern Lithuania ready to throw sticks as soon as the Mig-31s turned towards the Eurofighters would have completely changed this battle I think. With the very similar observability between the Eurofighters and the Migs and the sheer power of the R37s the Europeans had no real chance of winning that engagement, but 4 air to air stealth jets already in firing range could have rained down on the Migs and wiped them out before they got a chance to retaliate. I don't think NATO would ever attempt an air battle with Russa using only 4th gen jets.
They probably wouldn't unless it's out of necessity.
Scoreboard does not include the S-400 system that was taken out, correct?
Yeh I don't have most of the the ground units in the SB.
Hello Cap! Quick question. Did you draw the borders yourself or is there a way to somehow copy and paste it in DCS from somewhere else?
You have to draw it manually.
Love the videos, but just as an aside, has Cap ever not had a cold?
Since my baby arrived I actually can't remember not being ill...
@@grimreapers😢
can you do more scenarios with the Italian Air Force or the Italian Navy?
finally a mission with tornado
Ooh fun!
Russian breakthrough not happening, so depressing hypothetical by contributor not required. That said, interesting scenario & outcome.
Is there any way DCS could model the absolutely stunning and terrifying Russian incompetence? Could they model sergeants and captains selling the explosive reactive armor out of their tanks because they haven’t been paid properly in a decade?
GR, I don't think your premise of the US not joining is plausible at all. For one, it would completely break NATO if their prime adversary can get the biggest member to stay out of a war just by threatening nukes. Nobody would trust the US to uphold any defence agreement after this, especially as it would leave a frankly underarmed Europe to try hold the line itself, and post war be determined to develop its own military industrial complex and potentially NATO like group without the US. Which would leave America with a lot less influence.
A much simpler ans better set up is that this strike was a Euro gig because the USAF can't do everything everywhere.
FYI there are 8 NATO fighters constantly stationed within the Baltics, different airforces take turns stationing their jets there in 4 month rotations, for example last year from august to december it was Spanish Typhoons. Mostly they are stationed in Ämari air force base in Estonia but because it's currently getting a overhaul, they are temporarily stationed in Latvia instead.
These fighters have to intercept russian jets about 300 times a year because for some dumb reason russia loves to send it's jets into NATO countries's airspace.
In any case, Suwalki gap is in a permanent pincer. Not to mention that Kaliningrad is small enough that it can be completely leveled by regular artillery from well within Poland and Latvia.
For everyone talking about standoff weaponry; by your logic, there would be no need for Airborne assets in this battle as there are already U.S. Army Typhon launchers in the baltics & PrSM has been/will be delivered to various countries in 2025. Thus, there would be no need for Air assets; irl, this would be a surface-surface ballistic/cruise missile strike, which wouldnt be very enjoyable, would it? Theses videos are meant for entertainment, after all.
F35’s wouldn’t be in the cons ffs
So are Russian nukes actually functional if they require maintenance while in Stand by?
Where are the Rafales ? Nevertheless great video as expected !
Why the map says Rovaniemi and Kemi-Tornio in Poland?? Those are in Finland.
A better question: Why did the UK get so little of the Eurofighter workshare?
Too lazy.
@@tonyflaherty1351 Foxtrot Oscar
It was their tea time
@@dexlab7539 Seeing as Eurofighter is essentially a British Aerospace EAP then after designing and building the prototype we were probably due one. Not Foxtrot Oscar.
Kaliningrad IS part of Russia proper tho. Its an exclave. No NATO fighters could ever fly over that unhindered.
That's all nice, but we should start calling the exclave by its proper name, Königsberg. I'm not saying that it has to be returned to Germany. For all it's worth, it could become some sort of Baltic trading hub.
Just as long as the Russkies don't get to keep it.
Kaliningrad was German territory (called Konigsberg) until WWII. After the Soviets occupied it, they annexed it into Russia and the German population forcibly relocated. Its large ethnic Russian majority and the strategic value of threatening the Baltic-NATO supply lines and placing military assets a few hundred miles closer to the heart of Western Europe are why Russia continues to hold it.
Interesting... Now, if this somehow should resemble a realistic scenario, how did you manage to convince the Swedes to stay totally out of it?...🤔
The constant use of Su-57 bothers me a bit. The aircraft just isn't operational, at least not in any meaningful way. If this is a simulation of a conventional conflict you ought to be using acutal operational airframes. That means Su-27's and Su-35's, not Su-57 that really only exist as a testbed.
Kaliningrad is Russian territory. Also Cap, it appears that the Spanish would have been using IRIS-Ts on their Eurofighters. I am not seeing anything about the ASRAAMs being operated by Spain as of yet. Also they call it different just like the Sherman tank had different names based on which country was using it. For example, Canadian Shermans built under license were called Grizzlies. Also the M3 was Called the Lee or Grant Tank. The PAC-2 missile itself does have a doppler radar so even if the battery radar doesn't have line of sight, the seeker head would. At the end of the day, this mission would have been a failure by NATO and Russia would have been happy with their performance. They could just move another S-400 system into the area whereas it would be hard for NATO to scrounge up 12 more Eurofighters as easily.
"lets assume the EU, by which he probably means Europe" that's some shade.
Axeheads are massively over-modelled in DCS, no way they're that good IRL, Cap.
And your evidence is?
@@rebelliousfew A lot of data from air combat over ukraine seems to indicate that R-37 are only really used by VKS fighters to force Ukrainian fighters to go defensive and usually to compromise Ukrainian air missions while keeping VKS assets safe.
What about Europe using JASSM-XR, Barracuda-m and Jackal?
India vs Canada 🇨🇦 and Australia 🇦🇺 please
What do you think of the new Sea Power game coming out?
I can’t see a scenario where ‘Russia’ launches any nuke outside their main borders. They know exactly what will happen.
M.A.D. Has been I thing for decades. No one wins, if so…they would have used a Tactical nuke, but only once and the world suffers.
Canadian Army Veteran
Russia took more damage dawg. The radars cost is not added to the scoreboard.
still nato would have two times of costs at the least
Nah our shit is just over priced
Definitely not, in terms of cost. NATO equipment is downright expensive.
@@rebelliousfew thats what im saying, natos cost would be way higher???
@@MacedonianChristian In an all-out war, (no nukes ofc) yes, the cost to NATO and the US especially would be astronomically higher.
This is exactly the danger of Russia. Their cost effective equitment that does equally or even surpass in some aspect for the same job. Their military industry complex has also proven how effective they are in mass producing in short amount of time. NATO may run out quicker due to high cost and at the same time produce slower. Also Russian equitment can be repairable at the field while NATO equtiment mostly must be toed back to the factory. The ugly truth with NATO vs Russia and NATO wouldn't hold up against Russia in long run if the US wasn't apart of NATO but in the long run without involving nuclear weapons NATO would win due to share numbers alone but if China decide to get involved there woun't be any men left to fight.