Very well put together video. I can definitely agree that this story is too afraid to really commit to *anything,* let alone shaking up the status quo. It doesn't commit to full-on camp, since it tries to have plenty of emotional moments. But it doesn't fully commit to those moments either. And the characters literally worshipping You, The Player, Also Known As Jesus, could've been an actual dynamic (beyond the weird player worship that's super gross and weird), considering Alear expresses not wanting such treatment. But they still never commit to that either. By the last third of the game where a million ridiculous plot points are dumped on you, I was just checked out at all the nonsense being thrown at me rapid fire.
As a fan of Engage, (like seriously #1 fav in the entire franchise) this was a great video I think you covered the game's narrative shortcomings fairly and concisely. Without getting bogged down in smugness. Just a really effective and hard-hitting critique, with the underlying feeling of "this could have been better" Great video. I think it deserves more exposure, your content in general seems fantastic
That makes perfect sense. Like it's frames the reason why I dont love Engage very well. It's literally the same reason I have issues with Fates. Both had some interesting ideas in the narrative that simply could have been done better. Id elaborate more but im about to finish my break rip
Man, that bit about the characters all loving you unquestioningly really resonated with me. I spent my time with Engage waiting for someone on my side to point out Alear's flaws, to be a thorn in their side pushing them to do better, to form a rivalry with them. Someone whose personality was even the slightest bit standoffish or rude, but still clearly on Team Good Guy. Previous FE games have had characters like this--Felix in 3H, Shinon in PoR, even Hector/Lyn to each other in FE7 to an extent--so I was hoping that something similar would crop up in Engage...but it hasn't yet. (I'm only on Chapter 20, maybe somebody that fits this description shows up later, but if so, they should have been introduced earlier!) Everybody I've recruited so far seems to have a generically "nice" personality with one or two extra traits slapped on top for flavour. I'm sure some folks would say that that's just how FE characters have always been, but I feel like it really stands out in Engage without a wide range of temperaments and outlooks to fill the ranks. They all blend together after a while, without anything to really set them apart from each other besides "likes tea" or "digs holes". And as someone who comes to FE for the characters and the story in addition to the gameplay, that really doesn't cut it for me. Engage could do so much more and be so much better if it just had a bit more fun variety in its cast.
I used to be in the camp of "eh, Engage's story is awful, but it's not trying to be a fantastic story, it's just a filler game with a filler story for an anniversary celebration". But honestly, after seeing the writers who worked on this game, and taking a closer look at how much the story here emulates other awful stories (the beats are incredibly similar to fates overall, especially Birthright), I can't keep giving this game slack, it feels like it truly is just terrible, not just "haha fun terrible but it's fine, it's not a serious game", because the sort of "twists" or other terrible tropes this game throws at you are exactly what the writers kept writing on the other supposedly "serious games".
I’ve been thinking Engage is a story with good ideas that are poorly executed since I beat it, and I think you articulated why exactly that is better than I ever could. Like, a lot of the moments you talked about in this video were moments I liked in isolation, but looking at the story as a whole I never truly cared about what was happening the way I did in Sacred Stones, or Radiant Dawn, or Thracia 776, or even a lot of Three Houses. It’s weird too because I feel an overwhelming sense of potential from this story. I loved a lot of the characters and had fun reading their supports, I agree that small tweaks to the main plot writing could’ve made a world of difference, the whole game feels like it had a lot of care in it and that includes the story to me. But something went wrong when it came time to fit it all together, and it leaves us with what is in my opinion not the worst story in this series but one that felt especially unsatisfying.
The way I view it has great ideas such as the relationship between characters but all the small parts about it counter the good parts as if they thought this was good enough. So though the story is okay it missed so much because of it. Basically it combined a bunch of story elements good or bad in fire emblem games into one which is literally engage in a nutshell.
This "everyone loves you" dynamic has been very prevelant since Fates and it's never explained very well in the story. The series has picked up in popularity since doing that however and all it shows me is how starved we are of kindness in this cruel world...
Partly do it to ourselves when we expect others to be kind back after excessively destroying the other person's life purpose. My problem with this games is not the "everyone loves you", as it makes some sense. You are the "divine dragon". It's how often each character apologizes after doing nothing wrong. It's mildly annoying but it's so weird sometimes.
Great video, new sub! What I disliked the most about Engage is just how empty the game felt, like, no one cared about the story besides Alear, all the characters just threw you generic lines (I remember wanting to talk to Kagetsu all the time cause' he is cute, but I stoped doing it because he just would say how cool he was in battle-), like, not even the main lords seemed to care about the story most of the time, and if it wasn't because they appear in the cover art and the opening I wouldn't be able to guess they are the supposed main characters at all. It didn't help that even on the supports they never talked about the story (or backstory) at all, they were just throwing their quirky shenanigans, not just with Alear but the whole cast (like what you mentioned about Ivy and Diamant having a whole conflict story behind them but they are pretty chill with each other). So in the end, I really felt kinda alone on the game, it wasn't the story of Alear and their friends overcoming their obstacles to save the world, it was just Alear and a bunch of randoms whom's utility in battle was the only important thing they had to offer. Being in the Somniel made me feel even a little sad for that reason lol, it was just so lonely being there, after all the only true friend Alear had was Sommie-
Exactly. They should avoid the same mistakes as fire emblem engage and I want the next fire emblem game to be something like this. Melange, an unknown substance that could dramatically advance human society. In the past, this substance caused a cosmic catastrophe on planet Bashtar that engulfed the surrounding star systems, and eventually its very existence was lost. Decades later, the Melange reaction was confirmed again on planet Bashtar. In search of the unknown substance that should have been lost, various speculations begin to swirl. Various parties are getting involved; The government, corporations, cultists, and unknown mercenaries... The protagonist is one of them.
Excellent video, and I particularly like your conclusion. It seems that the fandom is more concerned in poking fun at small inconsistencies or campy moments, rather than directing criticism to the lack of commitment that makes those moments fall flat in the first place, both in this game and in past entries of the series. I think that if they had the brazenness to keep Alear dead for a few chapters, and use that window to set up a Veyle redemption arc without relying on the artificial personality cop-out, it could have been a great payoff, but alas, by the end of the chapter we have to go back to our flying resort to do push-ups. Don't misunderstand me, I absolutely loved the game overall and the peaceful, carefree vibe of the Somniel, but losing it for a while would have made it all the more precious when you ultimately got it back. Instead, it's hard to care for much when many of the plot's elements (and even characters) seem to exist in a vacuum and ready to be shelved as soon as the chapter is over.
It's a frustrating place to be in. I had a lot of fun with Engage and I'm going to replay it down the line like the others and I'll enjoy it then too, it just sucks that the game's story feels like a rough draft that never got time to be fully thought out.
Funny you should mention Veyle being the main character for a few chapters when Alear died, because I thought the exact same thing at the time! The chapter 21-22 sequence is still really cool, but they could have done a lot more.
Great video! I've always wondered if the need to have a stable hubworld structure to fall back on in the three FE games you mentioned (Fates, 3H, and Engage) limited their capacity for storytelling, or shaking up the status quo in any meaningful way. Do you think having those Somniel type hubworlds limits the main characters from having big narrative setbacks or is it something else entirely?
I wouldn't say that it's dogmatically true that they don't. Every chapter in PoR/RD for example has bases (with a couple small exceptions), but a need to hang onto it as a gameplay mechanic can be limiting. So it's okay to have it and it's okay to use it and never deprive the player meaningfully or whatever, but when the game wants to make big, dramatic pushes on the story, it undercuts the ideas presented that, for example, Corrin can just teleport into a different dimension whenever, or, as another example, that a full-scale war can be waged by an army that once a month goes out from the monastery to do battle then pull their troops out to return home whenever. tl;dr it's not a bad thing inherently, but it can be poorly handled.
I always don't like to see the excuse of fans that said this game story not suppose to be taken seriously it just reference but no the game actually want the players to take it seriously. If the intention of story suppose to be comedy I don't think it is good comedy because the comedic moment actually not much. edit: I want to continue a bit. So some cutscene is genuinely good in vacuum not in the whole package story. I can be more lenient for a game story that so ambitious end up falling a part at least they try. However, engage that suppose to be simple should not have much problem.
Technically with the everyone likes you part in Three houses... Not really. For the most part yeah... but At first Seteth doesn't really like you, and unless your in Edelgard's Route... Hubert will never really like you... so... Not really but it can kinda feel like it.
Really great points. To the point "everyone is so nice to Alear" is understandable because Alear is everyone's deity, just like Byleth was eveyone's professor / collegue for the adults, with Seteth being the only one who questions Byleth. Still, I really would have wished a character who would have tried to shake things more. I think Fates had it better since there were characters like Niles and Takumi, who were very suspicious of Corrin, and that you were going to piss off the other side with your choices. That's why I think Soren was a good addition to Engage even though I haven't played the game he and Ike are from, he is very much contrast to the usual niceness in Engage.
I think the fact that people know what liking a teacher is but not what behaviour is normal for deity-in-the-flesh-worship, especially since I don't feel like you ever do all that much for the characters. You don't get to see the reasons for why they should trust you, nor is there any variation in how that trust is. It's just worship through and through
Absolutely A+ video. I can only hope they put some decent effort into the next story. Fire Emblem deserves good stories too, it shouldn't have to coast along on just it's fantastic gameplay.
I really liked this video, is normal for media to just want to be comfortable for the consumer but when I think of the cool story moments of Fe I think of 4's battle of belhalla and 5's Manster arc wich totally shake up what you were doing up at that point and pretty much leave you at a point where you can't return to what you were used before, those moments are great story wise and gameplay wise and leave a good impression of the player and I wish Fire emblem did them a bit more or at least do stuff out of the ordinary, like Idunn in 6 being an unconventional final boss. Sadly videogames more than any other media seems to be afraid of making the consumer not be comfortable and is very dissapointing.
Part of that is to be expected. If a movie takes you out of your comfort zone, you're still probably going to finish it and see the payoff. You're more likely to drop a book or a series that makes you uncomfortable, but there's still the promise of a payoff. If a video game takes you out of your comfort zone, firstly, you have to put effort into powering through that and secondly, it might not be intended and there may be no payoff. There are plenty of games where I've hit the brick wall where my build falls apart because I picked some options that don't scale well into the late game, in those cases, the fact that I'm out of my comfort zone won't have any payoff because it's not intended so I'm just having a miserable experience for no reason. Even if it is intended, the experience can be unnecessarily harsh depending on the player's previous actions - if you've trained up the wrong people in Thracia, losing them to a scripted event might effectively soft-lock you and there's no way of knowing without playing it out. In short, it's a risky move, especially in games with a lot of moving parts. It can have an amazing payoff, but you're likely to scare a lot of people off by going for it.
@@aurtosebaelheim5942 I don't understand what you are saying about losing trained units in Thracia due to unavoidable events, the only unit is gone for a considerable amount of time out of your control is Eyvel and she is a level 12 prepromote not much room for training her. You might lose the earlygame squad in the Manster arc but you get them all back in 5 or so chapters so I don't see where you are coming from.
@@maxyaju4293 I don't have a good memory of Thracia and forgot just how many new characters it gives you for the prison escape. I also forgot how early it was. I think I was blurring it with the ability to miss recruiting Lithis and Dalsin into a general "you can completely tank a run early-game" thought. I maintain the point that prior decisions can change it from "good story arc" to "absurd, frustrating difficulty spike" and a first time player likely won't know where on the spectrum their experience falls. But you're right, unit training isn't a part of that, there isn't really time for it to factor into the equation.
Very good video, hits on basically all my critiques with the narrative well. Slight correction on the Voice Direction, Seitz directed Awakening, Heroes, 3H and Engage (maybe the Warriors games too, not super sure), Echoes was done by Wendee Lee.
RIGHT I COMPLETELY FORGOT. Huge oversight on my part, I remember finding out it was Wendee Lee on Echoes and being stunned and I just... forgot?? I am sorry, but yes, you're 100% right on this
Great video! As someone who genuinely likes this game and it's characters it's good to have a critique of it that's not drowning in smugness and a sense of superiority. It's honestly so hard to openly talk about this game and it's characters in the community without someone trying to be smug or sarcastic with it and it's really sad to see. Perhaps one day people will be able to honestly talk about games like these without defaulting to pointless "artstyle bad" or sweeping generalizations but for now this video is pretty much all that's there. Let's just hope that IS learns from their mistakes and makes something truly great next time around. Although, knowing this community I doubt it would matter to people if they don't agree with the visuals.
Interesting, I wholly agree that FE Engage has writing problems, but my issues are completely different. You say that the chapter 10-11 sequence is well done. And while it's nice for the gameplay, I think it's awfully executed. You reach the cathedral with your army, talk with the villains, the four generals are introcuded and SOMEHOW lose all that stuff. Veyle just uses the time crystal to nab the rings off of you and even mocks you for how easy it was apparently. Then you just somehow retreat past the four generals that were just introduced surrounding you. But I guess since they're out of frame, they don't exist anymore and game hopes you forget about them. This basically combines two of my main issues with the writing: It's incredibly obtuse and contrived at times. The beginning already rubbed me wrong way because it hid information that should've been given or asked by the characters. The enemy SOMEHOW invaded this holy temple, sure thing I can suspend my disbelief for that. But it's not really clear where we fight them, when the rings are stolen or even which rings are stolen and which were saved. No one even asks which rings were stolen, which is just weird at that point cause that's the first you'd wonder. The contrived part is pretty obvious I think. Villains just SOMEHOW escape several times because you don't really capture them. This might be fine once or twice and has been done before with other Fire Emblems, but that usually involved teleportation magic or some other means. In Engage, however, it just happens because the writer wants it to happen. Even in the one case where Marni is taken hostage, she's taken to the enemy for no apparent reason. The only reason is so that she can die for the plot. This makes Engage seem more like a sunday morning show where villains are repeatedly used. But it just doesn't work for a strategy game where technically you're at war with whole armies on both sides. Old FE games got around that by usually not having villains talk with the protagonist's army with a few exceptions. Bosses in many chapters are just some throwaway generals that provide their part before the chapter while talking to higher ups or hostages. Rare exceptions are Lyon due to the naivety and hope of the twins for him. But at the very least that's a good reason to not execute him on the spot. Engage just killed my suspension of disbelief with every chapter after 12 or so.
I think you've done a pretty good job of covering the shortcomings of Engage's writing. A lot of what you say echoes my own thoughts as I was playing through the game for the first time, especially the Fates comparisons. ...but I can't get over the part where Blazing Blade is being held up as the good alternative. I guess the combination of nostalgia and the game's own dissembling to conceal its shoddy writing is pretty powerful. I honestly think Sombron is a better villain than Nergal in a lot of ways.
You're gonna have to forgive me my childhood on that one. I think the point isn't that fe7 is like... fundamentally better or whatever, but that it was able to construct itself in a way that ended feeling whole and consistent with itself. Part of it is absolutely my own nostalgia for fe7 though lmao
@@VivianAladren Yeah, Blazing Blade is definitely a "falls apart on close inspection" thing. Engage's plot doesn't need all that much inspection to fall apart, lol.
@@aclashoffireandice4084 if I really had to sit down and think of a stronger, cleaner example of consistent writing in the series I'd pick something like Sacred Stones or SoV (even though they both have their faults) but I liked settling on fe7 kind of because the story wasn't super deep or thoughtful. It worked within the constraints of being a prequel and so it instead made sure to make the emotional through line (Eliwood's journey to find his dad and helping Ninian) landed, and I believe they did that.
Legit like I’ve valued FE stories since I was a younger playing the franchise, and the straight up dismissal of Engage’s plot is a bit disheartening tbh. I agree a lot with the video, and it helped with unpacking some feelings I’ve had towards Engage, so I hope it does super well legit great work!
It's been difficult to see a community kind of leave talking about the game's story off the table because it's campy, and I really hope that this mood doesn't carry up to the writers, because I don't want to keep playing mechanically fun games with incredibly lazy and slapdash writing
Related to you right from the start re: playing Fire Emblem (7) on the GBA as a kid (early high school for me) and having it cast a shadow over my relationship with all future Fire Emblems. When I find myself thinking the newer titles are lacking in comparison, I know I may be falling into the nostalgia trap that says the media of our childhood is better than the media of our jaded adulthood. Still, I don't think the criticisms are without merit. Anyway, I enjoyed listening to you talk about Engage! I haven't played it and I probably won't, but it sounded like you were fair in your critique, and these are writing problems with the series that I wish were better.
I think you were able to summarize my own thoughts on this game’s writings. I’m still a little wishy washy, and still want to go back and take another look at the story, but I think this is what was bothering me: that lack of commitment. The goofy and one note characters make it first seem like ‘ha ha fun adventure’ which I can get behind, and I do enjoy plenty of the supports. Yet there’s no depth to them, or there’s something interesting there, just waiting to be unearthered or explored, but it’s never mentioned or seen ever again. When I initially finished the game, I was thinking ‘it’s self-aware and making fun of itself’, but the more I think about it I don’t think that’s the case. The thing with engage is that for its story, it DOES take itself seriously at times, but the times it does never *hits* or feels substantial. It feels surface level. The bandit chapter with Yunaka has the entire village massacred, chapter 17 sees a thriving port town burned to the ground, and the characters express sorrow, but it feels…it reminds me of when someone says ‘my condolences’ or ‘I’m sorry’ when you first tell them of someone close to you dying. It’s an expectation, not a reaction. The kind of story engage could be, one that is campy and goofy yet allows itself to be serious and heartfelt at times, is one that makes me feel disappointed and sad because what we got was a skeleton of that. It frustrates me because that kind of story/game can work. Maybe that’s just me; I’ve always been a sucker for comedies with serious undertones or heartfelt moments or heartbreak, etc. meh, whatever. This’ll be the object of my interest for however long before it is captured by something else. I’ve got a cake to bake.
This game’s shortcomings culminated into day 1 dlc instead of polishing and finishing the base game. But people are now suckers for dlc so this is the world that we live in 😂
@4:30, Which fascist character in particular are you referring to? Camilla? Edelgard? Someone else? Anyways, overall great video. This feels like a massive step down from 3Houses, or even Fates character and story wise
After watching this one all the way through, I really understand your complaints with this game. You wanted something with more bite to it but I feel very differently as a big fan of engage. I guess to put into words why I like it, it is exactly why most people dislike it. Engage is like a 4kids anime you catch on Saturday mornings as a kid with all the campy cheese and basic anime tropes you'd find there and that is exactly what I wanted out of engage. Not that I want every fire emblem to be like that but several years of 3 houses political discourse and just general misery I so desperately wanted something cozy and not serious and I was given that and I love that for it. I guess I just feel like I and other people get looked down on for liking engage for that and it really bothers me but I feel like you haven't done that and it's appreciated. I just hope what I'm saying makes sense, I just wanted something comfortable and fun and that's what Engage is to me.
You make good points but they are extremely scattershot and you tend to go into tangents that are hard to track. Took me repeat views to digest, listen and watch. Would recommend using a script or something.
Not a bad video, but after the stories of Fates and Three Houses, I was more than happy for a fire emblem game to say "Hey man, you can skip the cutscenes in this game, completely guilt free" I genuinely love the lighthearted tone and the fact that the game absolutely refuses to acknowledge its own story. In subsequent playthroughs of fire emblem, particularly fates and onward, the story go from what plot is written to what cool things the little guys they give us get to do. Beruka becomes friends with Oboro and is inspired to take up the spear, Vander becomes a martial monk so he can more aptly protect Alear, Bernadetta gets recruited to every house. I do miss when FE had pretty good stories but ultimately even my favorite ones end up getting skipped after so many playthroughs.
I watched this and your 3Houses video good stuff But I highly recommend you write a script unless you already do. 2nd. Cut out your failed takes. It might be more effort but it will improve the quality of your videos
Lumera and Luna were both sacrificed for the sake of "The feels" but I don't know much about either character to feel anything.
Wait did they really turn marth evil by making him red now?
“I’m not Marth… I’m… Enemy Phase Marth.”
Same with Marni and Madeline
Very well put together video. I can definitely agree that this story is too afraid to really commit to *anything,* let alone shaking up the status quo. It doesn't commit to full-on camp, since it tries to have plenty of emotional moments. But it doesn't fully commit to those moments either. And the characters literally worshipping You, The Player, Also Known As Jesus, could've been an actual dynamic (beyond the weird player worship that's super gross and weird), considering Alear expresses not wanting such treatment. But they still never commit to that either. By the last third of the game where a million ridiculous plot points are dumped on you, I was just checked out at all the nonsense being thrown at me rapid fire.
As a fan of Engage, (like seriously #1 fav in the entire franchise) this was a great video
I think you covered the game's narrative shortcomings fairly and concisely. Without getting bogged down in smugness. Just a really effective and hard-hitting critique, with the underlying feeling of "this could have been better"
Great video. I think it deserves more exposure, your content in general seems fantastic
Thank you so much! I do mean it when I say that I like Engage, it's just frustrating to see all the bad habits in writing still here lmao
That makes perfect sense. Like it's frames the reason why I dont love Engage very well. It's literally the same reason I have issues with Fates. Both had some interesting ideas in the narrative that simply could have been done better. Id elaborate more but im about to finish my break rip
Man, that bit about the characters all loving you unquestioningly really resonated with me. I spent my time with Engage waiting for someone on my side to point out Alear's flaws, to be a thorn in their side pushing them to do better, to form a rivalry with them. Someone whose personality was even the slightest bit standoffish or rude, but still clearly on Team Good Guy. Previous FE games have had characters like this--Felix in 3H, Shinon in PoR, even Hector/Lyn to each other in FE7 to an extent--so I was hoping that something similar would crop up in Engage...but it hasn't yet. (I'm only on Chapter 20, maybe somebody that fits this description shows up later, but if so, they should have been introduced earlier!)
Everybody I've recruited so far seems to have a generically "nice" personality with one or two extra traits slapped on top for flavour. I'm sure some folks would say that that's just how FE characters have always been, but I feel like it really stands out in Engage without a wide range of temperaments and outlooks to fill the ranks. They all blend together after a while, without anything to really set them apart from each other besides "likes tea" or "digs holes". And as someone who comes to FE for the characters and the story in addition to the gameplay, that really doesn't cut it for me. Engage could do so much more and be so much better if it just had a bit more fun variety in its cast.
I used to be in the camp of "eh, Engage's story is awful, but it's not trying to be a fantastic story, it's just a filler game with a filler story for an anniversary celebration".
But honestly, after seeing the writers who worked on this game, and taking a closer look at how much the story here emulates other awful stories (the beats are incredibly similar to fates overall, especially Birthright), I can't keep giving this game slack, it feels like it truly is just terrible, not just "haha fun terrible but it's fine, it's not a serious game", because the sort of "twists" or other terrible tropes this game throws at you are exactly what the writers kept writing on the other supposedly "serious games".
I’ve been thinking Engage is a story with good ideas that are poorly executed since I beat it, and I think you articulated why exactly that is better than I ever could. Like, a lot of the moments you talked about in this video were moments I liked in isolation, but looking at the story as a whole I never truly cared about what was happening the way I did in Sacred Stones, or Radiant Dawn, or Thracia 776, or even a lot of Three Houses.
It’s weird too because I feel an overwhelming sense of potential from this story. I loved a lot of the characters and had fun reading their supports, I agree that small tweaks to the main plot writing could’ve made a world of difference, the whole game feels like it had a lot of care in it and that includes the story to me. But something went wrong when it came time to fit it all together, and it leaves us with what is in my opinion not the worst story in this series but one that felt especially unsatisfying.
The way I view it has great ideas such as the relationship between characters but all the small parts about it counter the good parts as if they thought this was good enough. So though the story is okay it missed so much because of it. Basically it combined a bunch of story elements good or bad in fire emblem games into one which is literally engage in a nutshell.
This "everyone loves you" dynamic has been very prevelant since Fates and it's never explained very well in the story. The series has picked up in popularity since doing that however and all it shows me is how starved we are of kindness in this cruel world...
Partly do it to ourselves when we expect others to be kind back after excessively destroying the other person's life purpose. My problem with this games is not the "everyone loves you", as it makes some sense. You are the "divine dragon". It's how often each character apologizes after doing nothing wrong. It's mildly annoying but it's so weird sometimes.
Great video, new sub!
What I disliked the most about Engage is just how empty the game felt, like, no one cared about the story besides Alear, all the characters just threw you generic lines (I remember wanting to talk to Kagetsu all the time cause' he is cute, but I stoped doing it because he just would say how cool he was in battle-), like, not even the main lords seemed to care about the story most of the time, and if it wasn't because they appear in the cover art and the opening I wouldn't be able to guess they are the supposed main characters at all.
It didn't help that even on the supports they never talked about the story (or backstory) at all, they were just throwing their quirky shenanigans, not just with Alear but the whole cast (like what you mentioned about Ivy and Diamant having a whole conflict story behind them but they are pretty chill with each other).
So in the end, I really felt kinda alone on the game, it wasn't the story of Alear and their friends overcoming their obstacles to save the world, it was just Alear and a bunch of randoms whom's utility in battle was the only important thing they had to offer. Being in the Somniel made me feel even a little sad for that reason lol, it was just so lonely being there, after all the only true friend Alear had was Sommie-
Far and away the best analysis of FE Engage I've seen online. I couldn't agree more.
Exactly. They should avoid the same mistakes as fire emblem engage and I want the next fire emblem game to be something like this.
Melange, an unknown substance that could dramatically advance human society. In the past, this substance caused a cosmic catastrophe on planet Bashtar that engulfed the
surrounding star systems, and eventually its very existence was lost. Decades later, the Melange reaction was confirmed again on planet Bashtar. In search of the
unknown substance that should have been lost, various speculations begin to swirl. Various parties are getting involved; The government, corporations, cultists, and unknown
mercenaries... The protagonist is one of them.
Excellent video, and I particularly like your conclusion. It seems that the fandom is more concerned in poking fun at small inconsistencies or campy moments, rather than directing criticism to the lack of commitment that makes those moments fall flat in the first place, both in this game and in past entries of the series.
I think that if they had the brazenness to keep Alear dead for a few chapters, and use that window to set up a Veyle redemption arc without relying on the artificial personality cop-out, it could have been a great payoff, but alas, by the end of the chapter we have to go back to our flying resort to do push-ups. Don't misunderstand me, I absolutely loved the game overall and the peaceful, carefree vibe of the Somniel, but losing it for a while would have made it all the more precious when you ultimately got it back. Instead, it's hard to care for much when many of the plot's elements (and even characters) seem to exist in a vacuum and ready to be shelved as soon as the chapter is over.
It's a frustrating place to be in. I had a lot of fun with Engage and I'm going to replay it down the line like the others and I'll enjoy it then too, it just sucks that the game's story feels like a rough draft that never got time to be fully thought out.
Funny you should mention Veyle being the main character for a few chapters when Alear died, because I thought the exact same thing at the time!
The chapter 21-22 sequence is still really cool, but they could have done a lot more.
I only just hit Chapter 10 myself....but this does give me a greats heads up to know what to look ahead to. Wonderful video again Viv!
Great video! I've always wondered if the need to have a stable hubworld structure to fall back on in the three FE games you mentioned (Fates, 3H, and Engage) limited their capacity for storytelling, or shaking up the status quo in any meaningful way. Do you think having those Somniel type hubworlds limits the main characters from having big narrative setbacks or is it something else entirely?
I wouldn't say that it's dogmatically true that they don't. Every chapter in PoR/RD for example has bases (with a couple small exceptions), but a need to hang onto it as a gameplay mechanic can be limiting. So it's okay to have it and it's okay to use it and never deprive the player meaningfully or whatever, but when the game wants to make big, dramatic pushes on the story, it undercuts the ideas presented that, for example, Corrin can just teleport into a different dimension whenever, or, as another example, that a full-scale war can be waged by an army that once a month goes out from the monastery to do battle then pull their troops out to return home whenever.
tl;dr it's not a bad thing inherently, but it can be poorly handled.
I always don't like to see the excuse of fans that said this game story not suppose to be taken seriously it just reference but no the game actually want the players to take it seriously. If the intention of story suppose to be comedy I don't think it is good comedy because the comedic moment actually not much.
edit: I want to continue a bit. So some cutscene is genuinely good in vacuum not in the whole package story.
I can be more lenient for a game story that so ambitious end up falling a part at least they try. However, engage that suppose to be simple should not have much problem.
Technically with the everyone likes you part in Three houses... Not really. For the most part yeah... but At first Seteth doesn't really like you, and unless your in Edelgard's Route... Hubert will never really like you... so... Not really but it can kinda feel like it.
Really great points. To the point "everyone is so nice to Alear" is understandable because Alear is everyone's deity, just like Byleth was eveyone's professor / collegue for the adults, with Seteth being the only one who questions Byleth. Still, I really would have wished a character who would have tried to shake things more. I think Fates had it better since there were characters like Niles and Takumi, who were very suspicious of Corrin, and that you were going to piss off the other side with your choices. That's why I think Soren was a good addition to Engage even though I haven't played the game he and Ike are from, he is very much contrast to the usual niceness in Engage.
I think the fact that people know what liking a teacher is but not what behaviour is normal for deity-in-the-flesh-worship, especially since I don't feel like you ever do all that much for the characters. You don't get to see the reasons for why they should trust you, nor is there any variation in how that trust is. It's just worship through and through
Absolutely A+ video. I can only hope they put some decent effort into the next story. Fire Emblem deserves good stories too, it shouldn't have to coast along on just it's fantastic gameplay.
I really liked this video, is normal for media to just want to be comfortable for the consumer but when I think of the cool story moments of Fe I think of 4's battle of belhalla and 5's Manster arc wich totally shake up what you were doing up at that point and pretty much leave you at a point where you can't return to what you were used before, those moments are great story wise and gameplay wise and leave a good impression of the player and I wish Fire emblem did them a bit more or at least do stuff out of the ordinary, like Idunn in 6 being an unconventional final boss. Sadly videogames more than any other media seems to be afraid of making the consumer not be comfortable and is very dissapointing.
Part of that is to be expected. If a movie takes you out of your comfort zone, you're still probably going to finish it and see the payoff. You're more likely to drop a book or a series that makes you uncomfortable, but there's still the promise of a payoff.
If a video game takes you out of your comfort zone, firstly, you have to put effort into powering through that and secondly, it might not be intended and there may be no payoff. There are plenty of games where I've hit the brick wall where my build falls apart because I picked some options that don't scale well into the late game, in those cases, the fact that I'm out of my comfort zone won't have any payoff because it's not intended so I'm just having a miserable experience for no reason. Even if it is intended, the experience can be unnecessarily harsh depending on the player's previous actions - if you've trained up the wrong people in Thracia, losing them to a scripted event might effectively soft-lock you and there's no way of knowing without playing it out.
In short, it's a risky move, especially in games with a lot of moving parts. It can have an amazing payoff, but you're likely to scare a lot of people off by going for it.
@@aurtosebaelheim5942 I don't understand what you are saying about losing trained units in Thracia due to unavoidable events, the only unit is gone for a considerable amount of time out of your control is Eyvel and she is a level 12 prepromote not much room for training her. You might lose the earlygame squad in the Manster arc but you get them all back in 5 or so chapters so I don't see where you are coming from.
@@maxyaju4293 I don't have a good memory of Thracia and forgot just how many new characters it gives you for the prison escape. I also forgot how early it was. I think I was blurring it with the ability to miss recruiting Lithis and Dalsin into a general "you can completely tank a run early-game" thought.
I maintain the point that prior decisions can change it from "good story arc" to "absurd, frustrating difficulty spike" and a first time player likely won't know where on the spectrum their experience falls. But you're right, unit training isn't a part of that, there isn't really time for it to factor into the equation.
Very good video, hits on basically all my critiques with the narrative well. Slight correction on the Voice Direction, Seitz directed Awakening, Heroes, 3H and Engage (maybe the Warriors games too, not super sure), Echoes was done by Wendee Lee.
RIGHT I COMPLETELY FORGOT. Huge oversight on my part, I remember finding out it was Wendee Lee on Echoes and being stunned and I just... forgot?? I am sorry, but yes, you're 100% right on this
incredibly insightful! I havent beaten Engage, but I had noticed that the game never actually wants to "hurt" the player, if that makes sense.
Great video! As someone who genuinely likes this game and it's characters it's good to have a critique of it that's not drowning in smugness and a sense of superiority.
It's honestly so hard to openly talk about this game and it's characters in the community without someone trying to be smug or sarcastic with it and it's really sad to see.
Perhaps one day people will be able to honestly talk about games like these without defaulting to pointless "artstyle bad" or sweeping generalizations but for now this video is pretty much all that's there.
Let's just hope that IS learns from their mistakes and makes something truly great next time around. Although, knowing this community I doubt it would matter to people if they don't agree with the visuals.
Interesting, I wholly agree that FE Engage has writing problems, but my issues are completely different. You say that the chapter 10-11 sequence is well done. And while it's nice for the gameplay, I think it's awfully executed. You reach the cathedral with your army, talk with the villains, the four generals are introcuded and SOMEHOW lose all that stuff. Veyle just uses the time crystal to nab the rings off of you and even mocks you for how easy it was apparently. Then you just somehow retreat past the four generals that were just introduced surrounding you. But I guess since they're out of frame, they don't exist anymore and game hopes you forget about them.
This basically combines two of my main issues with the writing: It's incredibly obtuse and contrived at times. The beginning already rubbed me wrong way because it hid information that should've been given or asked by the characters. The enemy SOMEHOW invaded this holy temple, sure thing I can suspend my disbelief for that. But it's not really clear where we fight them, when the rings are stolen or even which rings are stolen and which were saved. No one even asks which rings were stolen, which is just weird at that point cause that's the first you'd wonder.
The contrived part is pretty obvious I think. Villains just SOMEHOW escape several times because you don't really capture them. This might be fine once or twice and has been done before with other Fire Emblems, but that usually involved teleportation magic or some other means. In Engage, however, it just happens because the writer wants it to happen. Even in the one case where Marni is taken hostage, she's taken to the enemy for no apparent reason. The only reason is so that she can die for the plot.
This makes Engage seem more like a sunday morning show where villains are repeatedly used. But it just doesn't work for a strategy game where technically you're at war with whole armies on both sides. Old FE games got around that by usually not having villains talk with the protagonist's army with a few exceptions. Bosses in many chapters are just some throwaway generals that provide their part before the chapter while talking to higher ups or hostages. Rare exceptions are Lyon due to the naivety and hope of the twins for him. But at the very least that's a good reason to not execute him on the spot. Engage just killed my suspension of disbelief with every chapter after 12 or so.
I think you've done a pretty good job of covering the shortcomings of Engage's writing. A lot of what you say echoes my own thoughts as I was playing through the game for the first time, especially the Fates comparisons.
...but I can't get over the part where Blazing Blade is being held up as the good alternative. I guess the combination of nostalgia and the game's own dissembling to conceal its shoddy writing is pretty powerful. I honestly think Sombron is a better villain than Nergal in a lot of ways.
You're gonna have to forgive me my childhood on that one. I think the point isn't that fe7 is like... fundamentally better or whatever, but that it was able to construct itself in a way that ended feeling whole and consistent with itself. Part of it is absolutely my own nostalgia for fe7 though lmao
@@VivianAladren Yeah, Blazing Blade is definitely a "falls apart on close inspection" thing. Engage's plot doesn't need all that much inspection to fall apart, lol.
@@aclashoffireandice4084 if I really had to sit down and think of a stronger, cleaner example of consistent writing in the series I'd pick something like Sacred Stones or SoV (even though they both have their faults) but I liked settling on fe7 kind of because the story wasn't super deep or thoughtful. It worked within the constraints of being a prequel and so it instead made sure to make the emotional through line (Eliwood's journey to find his dad and helping Ninian) landed, and I believe they did that.
Legit like I’ve valued FE stories since I was a younger playing the franchise, and the straight up dismissal of Engage’s plot is a bit disheartening tbh. I agree a lot with the video, and it helped with unpacking some feelings I’ve had towards Engage, so I hope it does super well legit great work!
It's been difficult to see a community kind of leave talking about the game's story off the table because it's campy, and I really hope that this mood doesn't carry up to the writers, because I don't want to keep playing mechanically fun games with incredibly lazy and slapdash writing
Related to you right from the start re: playing Fire Emblem (7) on the GBA as a kid (early high school for me) and having it cast a shadow over my relationship with all future Fire Emblems. When I find myself thinking the newer titles are lacking in comparison, I know I may be falling into the nostalgia trap that says the media of our childhood is better than the media of our jaded adulthood. Still, I don't think the criticisms are without merit. Anyway, I enjoyed listening to you talk about Engage! I haven't played it and I probably won't, but it sounded like you were fair in your critique, and these are writing problems with the series that I wish were better.
Wait what character was being called a fascist for their armour? If Edelgard…well, there were many many many more reasons
I think you were able to summarize my own thoughts on this game’s writings. I’m still a little wishy washy, and still want to go back and take another look at the story, but I think this is what was bothering me: that lack of commitment.
The goofy and one note characters make it first seem like ‘ha ha fun adventure’ which I can get behind, and I do enjoy plenty of the supports. Yet there’s no depth to them, or there’s something interesting there, just waiting to be unearthered or explored, but it’s never mentioned or seen ever again. When I initially finished the game, I was thinking ‘it’s self-aware and making fun of itself’, but the more I think about it I don’t think that’s the case. The thing with engage is that for its story, it DOES take itself seriously at times, but the times it does never *hits* or feels substantial. It feels surface level. The bandit chapter with Yunaka has the entire village massacred, chapter 17 sees a thriving port town burned to the ground, and the characters express sorrow, but it feels…it reminds me of when someone says ‘my condolences’ or ‘I’m sorry’ when you first tell them of someone close to you dying. It’s an expectation, not a reaction.
The kind of story engage could be, one that is campy and goofy yet allows itself to be serious and heartfelt at times, is one that makes me feel disappointed and sad because what we got was a skeleton of that. It frustrates me because that kind of story/game can work. Maybe that’s just me; I’ve always been a sucker for comedies with serious undertones or heartfelt moments or heartbreak, etc.
meh, whatever. This’ll be the object of my interest for however long before it is captured by something else. I’ve got a cake to bake.
This game’s shortcomings culminated into day 1 dlc instead of polishing and finishing the base game. But people are now suckers for dlc so this is the world that we live in 😂
@4:30, Which fascist character in particular are you referring to? Camilla? Edelgard? Someone else? Anyways, overall great video. This feels like a massive step down from 3Houses, or even Fates character and story wise
There was a lot of "Edelgard is a fascist" discourse in my circles when Three Houses came out lol, and thank you!
@@VivianAladren Sounds about right.
I don't speak Fire Emblem at all, so all I can really say is that Roy > Marth in Smash and I won't hear any argument to the contrary.
Roy was my main melee. Roy fans forever. Roy.
After watching this one all the way through, I really understand your complaints with this game. You wanted something with more bite to it but I feel very differently as a big fan of engage. I guess to put into words why I like it, it is exactly why most people dislike it. Engage is like a 4kids anime you catch on Saturday mornings as a kid with all the campy cheese and basic anime tropes you'd find there and that is exactly what I wanted out of engage. Not that I want every fire emblem to be like that but several years of 3 houses political discourse and just general misery I so desperately wanted something cozy and not serious and I was given that and I love that for it. I guess I just feel like I and other people get looked down on for liking engage for that and it really bothers me but I feel like you haven't done that and it's appreciated. I just hope what I'm saying makes sense, I just wanted something comfortable and fun and that's what Engage is to me.
i agree with you i was exciting i thought the story was gonna like you said but yeah🤦♂story was meh
Was it written by the fates team?
You make good points but they are extremely scattershot and you tend to go into tangents that are hard to track. Took me repeat views to digest, listen and watch. Would recommend using a script or something.
Not a bad video, but after the stories of Fates and Three Houses, I was more than happy for a fire emblem game to say "Hey man, you can skip the cutscenes in this game, completely guilt free" I genuinely love the lighthearted tone and the fact that the game absolutely refuses to acknowledge its own story. In subsequent playthroughs of fire emblem, particularly fates and onward, the story go from what plot is written to what cool things the little guys they give us get to do. Beruka becomes friends with Oboro and is inspired to take up the spear, Vander becomes a martial monk so he can more aptly protect Alear, Bernadetta gets recruited to every house. I do miss when FE had pretty good stories but ultimately even my favorite ones end up getting skipped after so many playthroughs.
Jesus christ woman you need to get to your point quicker. How long did it take for you to actually state ehat your problem was with the game.
I watched this and your 3Houses video good stuff
But I highly recommend you write a script unless you already do.
2nd. Cut out your failed takes.
It might be more effort but it will improve the quality of your videos
if u expect good writing from fire emblem you will be disappointed.
its family lovers and child soldiers looking to kill an evil dragon.
Exhibit A of telling someone to not play Fire Emblem by lying: