Cruise Control = Engine Stall?? - Part 1 (Ram Cummins Diesel)
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- Опубликовано: 14 дек 2024
- Don't see this weird symptom every day...
This 2005 Dodge Ram Cummins Diesel runs great, EXCEPT when you try to SET the Cruise Control! When you touch the SET button, the truck momentarily loses power, surges, and comes back to life in 1 second.
What could be the problem?
Enjoy!
Ivan
Ivan's most favorite thing. A Chrysler vehicle with a weird electrical problem. Can he figure it out or will he have to call his lifeline Keith ???? Stay tuned for part 2 !!! The suspense builds !!!😀😀😀
Have the brake bulbs been swapped for LEDs? Ask me how I know that can be an issue.......
if that causes these types of issues that thats some seriously bad engineering like those should be isolated even if networked should have a failsafe incase their is a major issue. it doesn't surprise me in the least that its a thing that may happen, just doesn't make sense that it is a thing.
I got lucky. My LED lights only gave me TCM codes and put me into limp home mode.
@@dbowpku and here i thought my volvo's network was weird.. i pulled out front ceiling light housing to replace bulbs with LEDS (T10 style) and it triggered airbag sensor failure and steering sensor related codes. after a bit of using wiring diagram i think the airbag indicator light that is in there (and already an LED) nd is indirectly connected to the airbag controller (SRS modules) and thus makes that entire unit part of airbag network? weird but it makes little more sense than tail lights = critical TCM/ECM errors
Time for circuit board testing before replacing TIPMS or ECM?? Cant wait for Part 2. This is what you do best Ivan, lol.!
I am going to go on a wild guess here... and I am sure you already solved the problem, but its entertaining to :)
when cruise control is activated, the ECM wants to light up the cruise on light and also wants to check the brake pedal switch...
one of those things is shorting to ground or to power and triggers an ECM reset....
Interesting guess...but should set a code for a short instead of crashing the ECM :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics should. But it's a Chrysler product. :)
I have a 2011 town and country whose transmission goes into limp home mode when using the cruise control downhill.
@@ekaftan That's annoying lol
You should enable the high idle function for the truck. It’s used for trucks that have a PTO accessory or to just warm the Cummins up properly at 1100 RPM. It is engaged and controlled by the cruise control buttons. If the high idle works then the problem is while the vehicle is in motion.
These trucks have a very sensitive network. You said the voltage drop never dropped below 13v and that may be true. However, you need to look to see how much it dropped. As in percentage drop or V dropped. I am betting it’s a bad clock spring or a bad wire between the cruise button and the PCM. Something is causing a large percentage voltage drop very fast which the truck does not like.
I’ve seen an air compressor that was wired directly to a 12v source stall a truck when it turned on while driving. I switched it to a relay switch turn on and it solved the problem. But my point is these trucks do not like large voltage draws.
It’s worth looking in to the connector for the fan clutch just to rule it out if the high idle function works since the fan would be turned on while driving the truck, but any connection that has 12v and 5v reference in the same plug would be suspect. Chrysler is not know for great wiring.
The ghosting wipers is a common problem with this generation of Rams. It’s the wiper motor 9 times out of 10.
It seems like there's some correlation between the fuel pressure and the cruise control issue. Since Diesel engines alter fuel injection amounts to control engine speed, there has to be some link between the issues. Maybe the ground for the fuel rail pressure sensor is different from the ECM grounds and only opens when the cruise is activated because the ground is shared with something cruise-related. It's a strange issue, but it doesn't seem like the ECM is at fault since it works fine at all other times. This is definitely a case where thinking outside the box is required. I wonder if a faulty fuel injector could be causing the issue (although I'm not sure exactly how).
Hey, I think you're on the right track as opposed to the ecm going bad. I haven't watched p. 2 yet, but my dad's 06 5.9 just had a similar issue (not too far away on the PA turnpike from Pine Hollow) on dec. 24th at 5am. Near 0F, 65mph, cc on and boom, almost like a misfire we would lose power to the drivetrain and get it back while not losing electrical. P2509 and P0483, cooling fan speed. Turned around and drove the hour back and swapped into the VW. Trouble-shooting now to see if it might be related to a bad lift pump. No diagnostic tools, just flipped the key 3x for the codes, so unsure of fuel rail pressures.
Happy Birthday Ivan!
Happy birthday Ivan, I am very impressed with your videos..keep walking..keep growing..GOD bless you.
Thank you Claudio!
You are a good patient detective with these vehicles!
Cruise problem? Unplug it!! That was Ford's solution until they came out with the fused harness to cut down on fires (with the whole brake fluid shorting out the cancel switch in the master cylinder). Interesting fault, I was first thinking of a clockspring short or computer pin shorting an adjacent pin. But since it doesn't act up until the cruise can be activated (minimum speed required}, rather than anytime you push the button... I would think it would be an output problem. However this just uses the electronic throttle control. Seems like your on the right track with condemning the computer!! Can't wait for part 2...
That wasn't a cruise problem so much as a cheap switch-raging fire problem.
I believe the cruise would work until the vehicle burned to the ground...
Watching now but I remember the Chrysler products from the late 90’s would set tps codes when the problem was actually the clock spring.
Interesting. This is the weirdest problem I have ever seen...truck runs perfect otherwise!
I was wondering about clock spring too since that would be a place it could short to other wires, but I couldn’t think of what it could trigger. I wonder if there are shared grounds to cause that?
@@cullenmiller8170 If the clockspring was bad usually the buttons on the wheel don't work at all neither does the horn.
Oh, it gets better -- 97-01 Jeep Cherokees throw a failed transmission computer code when the alternator is going out ...
@@TechOut That's a big assumption. I've seen this exact sort of thing when there is a short and the button bridges the short - still works but it shorts other things out.
Not knowing the history of this vehicle, I would look for TSBs and also verify that the installed PCM is the correct one for this car (and that the calibration is correct). It seems to me as if it the PCM software is somehow not configured for cruise control, and enabling cruise triggers a PCM reset.
Did you try disconecting the fan clutch like the recommendation in the SnapOn tool? Seems like an easy low hanging fruit test to try.
No, since that would have nothing to do with Cruise control, and the truck runs perfectly all day long. But would have been interesting nonetheless :)
Almost at 100k subs
Keep up the good content
Thanks Johnathan!
I vaguely remember there were some problems with wire harness wearing thru on intercooler piping on that generation of Dodge Cummins. It would cause some weird problems, but no clue how that could relate to this problem, though.
The steering wheel switches are multiplexed and send varying analog voltage signals to the ECM. These get translated to digital commands and affect ON /OFF, SET, ACCEL, CANCEL, RESUME. As such the system operates on a regulated 5 volt power feed from the ECM. Pressing the SET switch feature sends a higher voltage signal ( 0 - 5 v range) to the ECM. I am thinking that the feed circuit to the speed control switches is receiving a voltage signal much higher than 5 volt maximum.
Chrysler electronic modules have circuit logic that monitors for excess voltage and / or current flow. If excess voltage or current flow is detected it will immediately shut down the offending circuit to protect the ECM from permanent failure. When you press the speed control SET button, the return circuit to the ECM is seeing excessive (system voltage???) and is momentarily shutting down the ECM and engine operation.
I would suggest checking the VT / violet wire at pin #46, connector C2 at the ECM for voltage. You may have to test for voltage with the vehicle speed above 30 mph. For safety the ECM may not energize the 5 volt feed to the speed control switches until a minimum vehicle speed is attained. I believe it should have 5 volts power. If it has more than 5 volts then there is either an internal ECM failure or a short to voltage in the connector C2 wiring harness.
Happy Birthday Ivan!!! Keith let the cat out of the bag!
Thank you 😁
"3.7L/4.7LGas Engines and/or Diesel With
Automatic Trans.
The speed control system is operated by the use of a cable and a vacuum controlled servo. On all engines except diesels, electronic control of the speed control system is integrated into the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). If equipped with a diesel engine, electronic control of the speed control system is integrated into the Engine Control Module (ECM)"
"A cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. This is a servo-less system."
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Two engines were available with the 2005 Ram 2500 truck. 5.7 V8 and 5.9 I6 diesel. At time interval 6:45 in part 1 video you show an Alldata schematic of the cruise control system. It is depicted for the 5.9 I6 diesel. That is incorrect and misleading. It is the diagram for the 5.7 V8 which is drive by wire (no mechanical cable attached to the throttle valve). The 5.9 I6 diesel uses a mechanical cable for acceleration control and vacuum servo cable for cruise control. Both are attached to the bell crank on the fuel injection pump. I verified this by reviewing documentation in a 2005 Ram 1500 / 2500 / 3500 service manual.
Did some further research and did confirm that the 2005 Ram 2500 with 5.9 I6 diesel was a "drive by wire" throttle / acceleration control. There is no mechanical cable from the accelerator pedal to the fuel injection pump and no vacuum servo mechanism for cruise control. So that means the 2005 factory service manual was not updated to reflect the change. That means there are differences in the wiring to the speed control switches. Inaccurate factory service data can make solving weird electrical problems even more challenging. Kudos to Ivan for NOT getting misled as I was.
@@acarlX you had me sweating there for a second 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics This entire scenario has really become quite puzzling. I have been watching your channel for about 5 years and your diagnosis is always top notch and puts "others to shame." Challenge Ivan and you will quickly look like a fool ! :-) Anxiously awaiting part 2 on the cruise control problem.
Could be engine computer coding, or even bad chiptuning. In very rare cases, a bit in the coding can flip which can result in the strangest faults. It's always worth reprogramming and coding the engine computer before you replace it. You need to be able to do that anyway if you install a new computer.
Checked service information for the P0602 and it called it a “checksum error” the troubleshooting was literally to reflash the ecm and try again. I would be very careful reflashing this ecm because there is a known issue with Cummins ecm flashing and Chrysler immo going wild after the flash. There shows to be a “dlc” 3 pin connector on the communication diagrams. In my experience Cummins puts a 3 pin deutch connector with 2 pins on their harnesses for INSITE to connect to the ecm off the public bus. I would see if you could get a laptop with INSITE and a 3 pin connector with an RP1210C adapter. Here is a link to an adapter that shows the 3 pin harness. Talk to your local truck shop (heavy duty diesel) and see if they will rent you their laptop and adapter with Cummins INSITE and you might be able to flash it that way. The 16 pin DLC has a receive and transmit wire that go to the Cummins ecm and the 3 pin is a private connection Cummins installs on all their engines.
Snap on gave you a hint to test it and what to do. Why did you not start there? And then run your checks.
It’s more than likely a problem in the fcm Or tipem is there also an 0483. I’d start with the fan clutch and end with the rear door wires
Fcm, fan control module? My dad's truck had something similar happen, but with cc engaged, not while engaging. It threw P2509 and P0483.
I think your making the right call. P0602 is a checksum error which will typically require computer replacement to correct. Definitely odd that it's acting up when setting cruise. I did have a gas powered Ram where it would downshift the transmission and set a TPS voltage high code when you attempted to set the cruise. Problem was failed clock spring shorting horn circuit voltage to the cruise switch. This would pull the V ref voltage over 5 volts and skew the TPS. You did lab scope the cruise set switch voltage when this occured? Good luck. Waiting for part 2...
Yeah that P0602 code = PCM death haha
Not the button, as you proved by pressing it while under 30MPH, so it's nothing in the column. Battery voltage IS sagging, looked like your scope was set to 2s/div, so maybe not fast enough to catch it going lower. Unless that dip was just the alternator turning off for a second. I can't make the correlation on why the cruise would do it, but I wouldn't go swapping ECUs just yet since you did see a voltage drop before the computer. Unplug and re-seat all connectors, but maybe that one module is pulling down the voltage. That high fuel pressure could be due to the ECU not commanding the regulator when it looses power and the regulator is failsafe to maintain pressure. So that could just be a side effect of the ECU shutting off.
But, as many have said this video was shot a while ago, so curious as to what the problem ultimately ended up being.
These instructions they give in the ALLDATA tool. I have to wonder is it because they have actually experienced a short from 12V to 5V on the fan connector or are they just speculating by looking at the schematic. I was asked many times to examine my schematic and "guess" at what failures could happen. Not a task I embraced. Most of the time when some other engineers who were big advocates of the process would do it they would come up with "possible failures" that made me roll my eyes clear out of my sockets.
I think the brake light switch on this vehicle is a multi gang switch. Step on the pedal and one circuit makes while another breaks. Also the switch has to be adjusted. It may be border line out of adjustment.
modern cars, that is crazy indeed, i'm looking forward to solution in pt2 Ivan..
Doesn't the ecm control injectors when in cruise . My be it will not engage as fuel pressure to hi and yet runs perfectly well when not engaged . Ecm cannot control injection with this problem .I would need to know . Funnier thing have happen 😁
maybe a short inside the cruise switch? grounding ? maybe try replacing the switch first.
I think that the non-ECM codes are all spurious, and occur after the ECM reboot. I agree with another poster who suggested disconnecting the fan controller and trying to see if the problem goes away.
Lot's of good suggestions. I do not have a "killer" idea of what the problem is.
The Guess... The electric vacuum pump.
I did some "Sunday Research" which produced the small novel you see below.
The 2005 Dodge Cummins (with an automatic transmission) did not use a electronic injector pump (it has a VP44 is installed). Cruise control without an electronic injector pump is always going to be a "Rube Goldberg Solution".
The 2005 Dodge Cummins with a manual transmission has an electronic injector pump. The ECM only needs to "talk" to the injector pump. No servo. No vacuum. Much simpler.
With the solution in play with an automatic there is no relationship between the engine vacuum and the engine speed, or between the engine vacuum and the engine load. Nothing useful...
What Dodge did is not much different from what Mercedes was doing with the 300TD back in 1984.
Anyway after reading what you see below, this is my call, "the electric vacuum pump". The pump is unhappy and pulling a heavy amp draw. It is "close enough" to the ECM (or the alternator) and starves the ECM. The ECM reboots (an removes the demand to the cruise control electric vacuum pump).
From www.cumminsforum.com/threads/cruise-control-acting-up.338750/
"Here is a brief description about how it works:
In the cruise control circuit a "Reference" signal (cruise set point) is electronically added to a "Feed-Back" signal (actual vehicle speed). The computer then calculates the difference between the "set" and "actual" speed which is called the "Error" signal. The computer then used the error signal to determine how much throttle to apply to drive the error signal back to zero, when the error signal = 0 the truck is at the cruise set point. If the error signal grows too large the the cruise control will "give up" thinking that it cannot maintain the set speed or even close to the set speed; it will then disengage when the vehicle slows down approximately 10 MPH below the set point.".
Possible Causes:
1.) The computer may not be receiving a proper feedback (vehicle speed) signal.
2.) The computer may not be calculating the error signal properly.
3.) The computer may not be able to increase throttle because of faulty servo motors or connections.
What to Check:
1.) When this behavior occurs do your speedometer and tachometer appear to be working properly, if YES then you may rule out the vehicle speed sensor or crankshaft position sensor. If NO then you may want to check the sensors and wiring for any obvious visual problems. I'm not sure how to test these sensors.
2.) Run the truck down the highway and set the cruise. If you place your foot on the throttle you should be able to feel the pedal move up or down when the cruise control system applies or removes throttle. If you cannot feel the pedal physically move then you know the output of the cruise control is not able to apply/remove throttle for some reason. In this case I would check the connection from the computer (I'm not sure which module handles this function at the moment) to the cruise control motor which is moving the pedal up/down. You may also want to check the cruise control motor circuit for a blown fuse or other obvious wirting or visual problems.
3.) Straight from the manual... "5.9L Diesel Engines With Automatic Trans. - If equipped with a diesel powered engine and an automatic transmission, an electric vacuum pump and vacuum lines are used to supply vacuum to the speed control servo. A vacuum reservoir is not used.
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - ROAD TEST
Perform a vehicle road test to verify reports of speed control system malfunction. The road test should include attention to the speedometer. Speedometer operation should be smooth and without flutter at all speeds. Flutter in the speedometer indicates a problem
which might cause surging in the speed control system. The cause of any speedometer problems should be corrected before proceeding. Refer to Instrument Cluster for speedometer diagnosis. If a road test verifies a system problem and the speedometer operates properly, check for:
* A Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC). If a DTC exists, conduct tests per the Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures service manual.
* A misadjusted brake (stop) lamp switch. This could also cause an intermittent problem.
² Loose, damaged or corroded electrical connections at the servo (if used). Corrosion should be removed from electrical terminals and a light coating of Mopar MultiPurpose Grease, or equivalent, applied.
* Leaking vacuum reservoir (if used).
* Loose or leaking vacuum hoses or connections (if used).
* Defective one-way vacuum check valve (if used).
* Secure attachment of both ends of the speed control servo cable (if used).
* Smooth operation of throttle linkage (if used) and throttle body air valve.
* Failed speed control servo (if used). Do the servo vacuum test."
Checking out the Servo (if you have an auto)
"OPERATION
A speed control servo is not used with any 5.7L V-8 engine, or with the 5.9L diesel engine
when equipped with a manual transmission. The following information applies only to
vehicles equipped with a mechanical servo. When/if a servo is used on gasoline powered vehicles, the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls the solenoid valve body. When/if a servo is used on certain diesel powered vehicles, the Engine Control Module (ECM) controls the solenoid valve body. The solenoid valve body controls the application and
release of vacuum to the diaphragm of the vacuum servo. The servo unit cannot be repaired and is serviced only as a complete assembly. Power is supplied to the servo’s by the PCM/ECM through the brake switch. The PCM/ECM controls the ground path for the vacuum and vent solenoids.
The dump solenoid is energized anytime it receives power. If power to the dump solenoid is interrupted, the solenoid dumps vacuum in the servo. This provides a safety backup to the vent and vacuum solenoids. The vacuum and vent solenoids must be grounded at the PCM/ECM to operate. When the PCM/ECM grounds the vacuum servo solenoid, the solenoid
allows vacuum to enter the servo and pull open the throttle plate using the cable. When the PCM/ECM breaks the ground, the solenoid closes and no more vacuum is allowed to enter the servo. The PCM/ECM also operates the vent solenoid via ground. The vent solenoid opens and closes a passage to bleed or hold vacuum in the servo as required. The PCM/ECM duty cycles the vacuum and vent solenoids to maintain the set speed, or to accelerate and decelerate the vehicle. To increase throttle opening, the PCM/ECM grounds the vacuum and vent solenoids. To decrease throttle opening, the PCM/ECM removes the grounds from the vacuum and vent solenoids. When the brake is released, if vehicle
speed exceeds 30 mph to resume, 35 mph to set, and the RES/ACCEL switch has been depressed, ground for the vent and vacuum circuits is restored.
Wow you did some really in-depth research! Great suggestions!
The fuel delivery is not matching the speed sensor? causing the system to boot out.
PCM replacement on a Chrysler, Eric O would call that job security!! 🤣🤣
From the looks on the data stream, the pci bus peaks to 12v when activating the cruise control which is way too high! Clearly indicating a short to a 12v line when activating. The PCM will shut off immediately by preventing damage on the computer circuits.
My next would be to check if the signal at pin 24 on c2 connector at pcm is dropping or not. also keep an eye on S103.
The cruise control electronics? Short inside of it or similar? Anything else that is supposed to accept a signal from the "set" button? Not likely but even the clockspring could have a limited issue.
I’ve gotten the power intermittent from weak battery’s . When cranking the voltage dropped and it was too weak to start the truck. Tried it a few times and it threw the code.
You showed the set switch PID but did you try turning the steering wheel at the same time? Maybe wire shorting on back of airbag or something in column? I was going to suggest fuel pressure but it seems electrical in nature just by how quick the problem occurs. I hear you when you said I hate calling ECM's. The vehicles I used to work on the computers were reliable to the point I would suspect them last on the list of being the actual problem. Maybe corroded wire that only acts up with load applied? Bizarre for sure.
So close 100k, amazing content.
Common problem with these is the grounds around the top of the qtr panels. Clean each one, especially the ones near the dr. side battery, and most ECM issues disappear. I suspect when you hit the CC it turns on the vac. pump which probably also uses the bad ground connection and causes further voltage drop.
I'm surprised that you read this very thing on your computer but didn't go through all those grounds.
What about hooking the scope up on cruise signal wires and see what they're doing during the network drop out?
I've never heard of a ECM affecting cruise control I wonder is it turning off the engine because of the high fuel pressure it's seeing or because it can't control it
So, that P0088 for the fuel pressure is most likely a symptom, not an actual fault. When you engage the cruise CTL, the ECU crashes and reboots. Hence the voltage drop (no more load command to the alternator), reduced comms on the bus (ECM is not sending any data), and the weird PIDs in the scan tool (during boot, the ECM may report an incomplete list of PIDs supported). After this reboot, the actual and the desired fuel rail pressure do not match; the debounce time for this fault is very short. Pressure does not get back into the desired range within that debounce time, boom; DTC is set.
The symptoms are quite consistent with my experience of a crashing ECU; I've had this happen on development units. Why it doesn't set a Level 3 Monitoring fault is questionable, though. Also, the fault may not lye within the ECU, though with cruise on a Diesel, that is unlikely (Cruise and regular operation use exactly the same inputs and outputs).
I would have checked that the brake lights weren't replaced with LED versions, that can cause problems on some cruise systems. I also would have taken a look at the speed sensor to see if anything wonky was going on there.
What happens if you hold the set button down continuously instead of momentarily? I also think the clockspring, cruise buttons (anything can short internally so if the button is supposed to send a ground signal to the PCM and it’s sending positive to the PCM it would be shutting down as a safety precaution?) as well as unplugging the cruise at the servo and trying the button again. Idk, reprogramming the SKIM, keys, remotes and modules just seems like a PITA and a last resort.
Ivan have a subscription on cliffhangers.
I'm kinda curious as to what might share a ground with the rail pressure sensor...A high value on a sensor's signal could be from a bad ground.
If the ground is "regulated" by the PCM, it is possible that the driver cannot cope with the load of also commanding the throttle.
🤷🏿♂️
-100
Cruise control brake switch issue?
I would try scoping the network again with the scan tool disconnected. Any mods or relative repairs to it the owner is aware of?
Seems that there could be a short between the wire that controls the fuel flow (for cruise control) at the injector pump....which is close to the ECM on that engine and the wire that shuts down that pump....I didn't see how you isolated the engine computer in this one.
Wire that controls the fuel flow for cruise control? Didn't see that on the diagram...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics - I think there are 2 places the throttle needs to control, the throttle body on the intake and the fuel level on the injector pump, Since the truck probably has drive by wire, there has to be a solenoid by the injector pump which would be powered by a wire from the TCM.....but I am just guessing!
Maybe 🤔 a case of the green crustys on the wire harness to the ecm
You have ECM/PCM reset (power fault) and instrument cluster fail. Is the Cruise control light on dash powered directly from the ECM/PCM? What if that line is shorted to ground or 12V? When you are stationary, no problem with input, as the cruise does not engage. But when you have enough speed, it engages and turn on the light on dash, get shorted, over current, reset the ECM/PCM, which turns off the cruise control and you are in the square one, with a module power fault code due overcurrent protection kicking in and some random other code due ECM/PCM not controlling something while it rebooted, like fuel pressure as the injectors were not firing.
I have had a few ghosts in these almost always been a TIPM or the injection pump
Those trucks you can use the cruise control as a stationary idle control also.
I would also put your scope ground on the ground of the sensor while testing to see how much noise there is when the symptom happens.
Interesting thought. Bernie teaches scope ground is always on Batt NEG, and then use a channel to test for noise :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I have heard him reference the scope ground to the most zero point of potential very true. However since your on battery ground you will get noise from the entire electrical system. If you go on the sensor ground you should get a cleaner signal because the computer uses capacitors to help reduce the noise. So if your signal has a lot of noise and you are on sensor ground you have a shielding issue for the wires or their is a issue inside the computer. I have seen this happen before on Acellerator Pedal Sensors with 2 potentiometers where the shielding failed and I had too much noise on the circuits causing my Accelerator Pedal codes. I would just hook up real quick and compare it when it stumbles to see if there is any difference. Also get a capacitance Decade box to test the theory as well.🙂
@@trainer2018 Love the detailed engineering explanation! You can also think of the battery as a giant buffer/capacitor. I'll have to experiment with ground noise levels on different points on the vehicle :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ivan, I'm pretty sure Bernie's 'scopes are common ground. Using a single ground to B- is the correct way to hook up that type of 'scope.
On something like a Pico with individually grounded/isolated channels there's nothing wrong with using sensor ground/low ref when 'scoping a reference circuit. I agree with busjockey1 that the signal should be cleaner because it removes the "noise", or voltage drop, on the modules ground circuit.
I had a recall on my cruise control on my Dodge journey it could have been doing the same thing they need to check see if there's a recall for reprogramming
I wonder if it’s something to do with speed sensor or an abs sensor dropping out but I would think a code would set, wonder if Chad is right about clock spring issue. Very interesting.
Hi ivan, looking at the diagrams it seems like the switchs on the steering wheel should be getting both a signal and ground wires from the pcm, assuming the switch or the wires are shorted they maybe over loading the pcm's circuit causing a momentary shut down ?! Just a thought ; eitherway its a very interesting problem indeed 🤔. Very much looking forward to part 2. Btw thanks alot for sharing, absolutely love your videos, very educational and like a good film never lacks an interesting twist at the end 😀!
I would ask the owner of the dodge truck. If truck was wrecked and rebuilt or any steering column work was done recently?
did you try unplugging the fans anyway? just to be sure. maybe your scope isn't catching the event.
Can you bypass the clockspring wiring? Sounds like the wires may be broken inside touching each other.
I would think power/ground issues, with the wipers being related.
wasn't there an issue with ignition switches or where the harness goes through firewall on those trucks? I may be thinking complete wrong truck though and probably just chrysler's famous ground corrosion :))
Used to happen to me with my '89 Econoline, 5.0 W AOD. At highway speed trying to climb hills in OD the lockdown would not engage & upon attempting to accelerate under cruise control the engine would just bog down & CC would disengage leaving you with a 😬 look on your face !
kickdown not "lockdown".
Something in that module sends bad signal and made mistake in ECM.
Why does it keep setting the high fuel pressure code? And what about the 'ghost wipers' problem? Could they be related to the cruise control issue? I'm clutching at straws
I know why you say that. When attacking a problem, gather all the data that you can. Then sit down and think. Anything in common? Sometimes, however, you must put the blinders back on and track one symptom down at a time.
@@hudzgh that's my issue. He gathered the data. Couldn't find a problem. I'll have to wait until tomorrow, see how it turns out.
Those are killer sunglasses. Where did you find those?
I think it the computer shorting out or it coud also be bad brake swich ?Another symptom of a potential problem with the cruise control vacuum reservoir are engine performance issues. If the vacuum reservoir breaks
or leaks, it may cause a vacuum leak that can affect the performance of
the vehicle. Depending on the severity of the leak, the vehicle may
experience a decrease in acceleration, power output, and fuel efficiency.
Foliage is suspiciously green. Must have pulled this one from the archives. :-)
Nice to see mechanic/techs wearing collar shirts. need to see it more often! We have to change what the public thinks of us mechanics! Maybe someday. what about
AC volts? That B+ looked really noisy from 350 miles away:)
It looked noisy from here too! In order to use a scope probe properly, you would have to use the small clip on grounds with each and every probe. Then some of the noise will go away.
Cruise Switch is shorting whole circuit when pressed bad cruise switch blocking signals
This video had to recorded sometime last summer or early fall. Ivan it must be hard to answer these questions when you know everything already.
Diesel don't use throttle for rpm control, they use fuel delivery. You can remove the throttle and it would still rev up.
The throttle valve on a diesel is a shudder valve , it crests a nice shut down, turbulence and is used for egr dpf .
Run the wipers while driving, AND hit cruise on.
Could you lift truck, remove drive wheels, run in gear in garage, vented exhaust, simulate
driving, so easier to look around/under hood?
Think about what cruise controls on a diesel? Throttle. It monitors vehicle speed?
Did you try pressing and holding the cruise button?
The p2509 could be the fan plug or loose battery connection on the left battery. The p0602 the pcm needs flashed if the code comes back it needs a ECM
Does the Cruise Control Wiring share the same connector or harness segments with the wiper and/or the power going to the PCM? Im curious if you were to hold the Set Cruise button whether you would see the Data Link drop out for the same time as you held the cruise switch. It appears that you get about the same packets with the key off as you do when the cruise button is pressed. Perhaps there could be some corrosion inside a connector or possibly the PCM that grounds out the signals or back feeds when you hold the button down?. My Coworker had a similar year Ram (non diesel) and he had to have his PCM replaced due to internal corrosion causing very interesting symptoms.
Did you ever do what the snapon tip said to try / check at the beginning unplug the cooling fan or what ever it said?
Ivan, great video!! TIPM more than likely @ fault, corrosion in connectors???? Just a WAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I’d rather not use the cruise than spend all that on a new ECM. If it’s the ECM, wouldn’t it do it randomly and more often? I think we’ll find out it’s something in the steering wheel, the switch itself or a wire from the switch. A wire is pinched or exposed where it shouldn’t be.
Yah you don't need cruise control your right foot works just as well
@Rövhålgren CP Arselstedt Maybe only when it’s pressed? Guess we’ll see.
So close to 100k that I'm excited for you! Congrats!
Someday, maybe, I'll add a few digits..
Cruise control bugs need black flag! Any problem I've ever had were shared grounds, and or transmission solenoids...
I think ECM has some internal cold joints problems on power pins. When it tries to activate cruise control it needs more power so more internal voltage drop and messes up the ECM, you cannot see it since you scope it externally.
Perhaps. Not sure why the cruise control would draw more power; it's just logic circuit.
Did you try just holding the cruise button down instead of just tapping it?
Hi ivan! That is really weird problem. As Diesels relying on electricals!! Ive never seen that happen in any Cummins I've driven. I would be interested to see when the ecm is replaced. I figure it is loose joints in the board? That would be interesting to see
Is it possible the set switch is going to ground? It showed on the diagram that it is a dedicated circuit signal and signal return. I have had rubbed wires in the steering column that had caused radio related gremlins, you may be chasing the same gremlins for the cruise.
Yeah I Would say the cruise control IC or circuit is shorting, Did you check all the PCM powers ?, I do not know if the part you where testing is for one side of the PCM and not the cruise control power side, because it has more than 2 power wires for a reason, like some cars got a transmission fuse and engine fuse, if the transmission fuse go the car would still drive in limp home mode, but the PCM and TCM is one
Morning coffee and a PHAD video. Ghost wipers and a crazy ECM. I'll bring the holy water and sage to burn my friend. BTW checked the Camaro with the pressure transducer. number 5 cylinder was the issue. Probably could have found it with mechanical tester but was a great learning experience.
That's awesome, Bill! Make sure to save those waveforms :)
My guess is the tipm. I can see there is voltage, but will it carry a load? I had a Jeep that had a tipm issue and it took three trips to the dealer before they found it.
Did you think of checking the fuel rail pressure sensor to see if it was actually going above 4.5v to be set to a P0088? From what I read if the fuel pressure goes high, the ECM goes into limp mode. Do we know whether the CC on button is pull up or pull down?
Dear Ivan, If you try it at night with lights, blower on to put more electrical load, would the engine stumble or stall in a more intense manner, i.e. would it be an alternator or battery just barely started to fail ?? and I wonder if the PCM have a very sensitive voltage sensor that makes it shut below a tiny threshold. Great investigation. Take Care and Enjoy Tour time. John Kaplanian
Hey Ivan great video. Could it be the clock spring.
He fixed it along time ago, but will he tell you, no. Thats how Ivan is, and he is getting worse the older he gets, middle age Xer the worse kind. Sick Kicks at best.
Is the data packets you see when it acts up from the scanner?
when cruise kicks in it takes a second to find the sweet spot. is it possible its torqueing just gight to cause a short in the 5 volt circuit or a 12 v circuit is shorting to the 12 v circuit temporarily.. would explain that fuel pressure high code too.
i own a 05 ram 1500 and mine was the fuse box and FCM box because of the green death
I have an 02 cummins with an 01 ecm. I have read ( unconfirmed ) they are the same ecm but have
diferent programming . My cruise control is dead as well as oil preasure gauge, but truck is 100% besides
those 2 things. Has someone installed an update or something in this truck? I am trying to find someone
who knows their stuff to see if my 01 ecm can be updated with software to have 02 programming. But no luck yet.
Maybe try reseting the ECM memory by disconnecting the battery for 20+ minutes? Part of the ECM algorithm must include storing the cruise set speed in memory; maybe there is a value stored in there it doesn't like and it kills the ECM momentarily when it tries to store the set speed? A long shot, indeed, but this is a bizarre one.
I wonder how much current is drawn when you activate cruise it could be causing an issue in the ecm so you won’t see it measuring outside voltage and grounds.
Also one code was 12v below voltage which again would be measured inside the ecm?
Did I see an issue with the obd glitch at the same time? Which again would point towards the engine computer
Do a Reflow on board if u can reflow board
Schematic reading should be a basic course early in life. Either way, these All Data schematics with the circuit trace feature (the highlighting of the circuit) is a killer feature. What does that subscription cost?
Clockspring? Because its direct to ecm.
Check the battery's and connections.