Preston Jacobs Explains the Main Problem with The Winds of Winter and George Finishing the Story
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 май 2023
- ▬▬ Description ▬▬
Preston answers a question on why the book is taking so long and if he thinks it'll be released anytime soon
This Clip Was Taken From: • Live From Taipei: Was ...
▬▬ Links ▬▬
Carmine's Channel: / xiiicarmine
Preston's Channel: / @prestonjacobsthesweet...
Soundcloud: / redteamreview
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6gHQpk2...
iTunes: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/g...
Google Play: tinyurl.com/tu4c6kh
Discord: / discord
Merchandise: teespring.com/stores/gotpodcast
▬▬ Information ▬▬
Carmine of RedTeamReview and Preston Jacobs discuss all things A Song of Ice and Fre and everything in between from the characters, to theories and even the latest episodes and news from HBO's television adaptation: Game of Thrones. New episodes debut every month on either Carmine or Preston's channels as well as SoundCloud.
#gameofthrones #houseofthedragon #podcast #hbomax 
Развлечения
Maybe the real 'Song of Ice and Fire' was the friends we made along the way....
😅😅😅
I just threw up in my mouth; This way so CHEESEY, AND ACCURATE. Lol im stealing this for everyday use.
It is known
No it wasnt
As long as Hotpie sits the Iron Throne. I'd say it's story for the ages.
I’m a long time publisher, and have had a number of authors who’ve gone off the rails like George, bitten off too much and then can’t finish. I think he needs a co-author. Elio and Linda might be acceptable to him. They structure the story, make decisions that George can’t or won’t, but don’t actually write chapters. They just push him forward. I suspect his problem is that he’s now done the easy stuff - written the chapters where he knew what was happening. The problem then isn’t time, it’s decisions. And decisions can be delayed forever. I’d recommend that, and/or serialise Winds. The fandom goes crazy over a single chapter. Release a chapter a month. He probably has 40 chapters complete. That keeps his 10,000 biggest fans happy for 3+ years and the drip drip pressure of knowing he only has to finish a chapter a month might push him onto completing the book before those 40 months have passed. I doubt it’d even diminish book sales.
He doesn't write in a linear way though as he has repeatedly explained
Even if he has 30 linear - or close enough to linear - it’d work. I suspect it’s more an excuse than a reason for not releasing more chapters. That’s exactly the type of reasons-why-not he (and his publisher) needs to get past. Again, a relatively common author issue. George is unique to us, but he’s not unique. Biographers have his problems quite often - the tale grows in the telling.
dont think his ego will allow contributors on his magnum opus. pretty sure i wouldnt (even if it was the reasonable thing to do)
He can call them writing assistants if that helps him get it done.
Yuuuup😮
At this point, I'm beginning to question if davos will even find the one piece
underrated comment
One thing I will point out.
Here in the UK A Storm Of Swords was released as two books because it was so big, Part 1 and Part 2.
In Part 2 every 50 pages was big events. Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, Several attacks on the wall, Tyrion's Trial etc etc.
A lot of stuff was wrapped up and the events is very dense. Winds Of Winter could be similar.
Yeah I think we are underestimating George. He could surprise us and kill off important characters. We assume that the "good ones" are eventually going to converge in Winterfell and the bad ones are gonna start dying and shit, but honestly it could be completely different and it could still make sense lore wise and character arc wise. It doesn't have to be like we think it's gonna be. As long as George sets his mind to it then it could be done.
@@JLchevz one Theon chapter of Stannis fighting winterfell could resolve that.
Mareen, Barriston/Victarion/Tyrion and that could be done. That story I think it doesn't work for Dani and she's forced out.
So for Westeros she learns she can't conquer and expect them to love her. She needs to get them to want her.
We could have a 2 parter where the second is key events.
Im pretty sure George himself said a few years ago that winds will be expansive in the vein of feast and dance. So yeah, expect yet another book filled with countless set ups and no pay offs.
@@akeelyaqub2538agreed
Now I understand why George loves working with TV.
"The author shits, the showrunner picks up loose ends."
The showrunners shat...and left MANY loose ends.
This is one of the major problems of gardener style writers. The ride is entertaining and interesting, but tend to not have well put together endings.
That's not really true in regards to George, some of his other books have amazing endings, it's just ASOIAF is so sprawling it's like, 100x more difficult toe nd
I truly think GRRM could come up with the perfect ending that satisfies all the promises he's made while still expanding the story as much as he likes... if he had enough time. He just doesn't. He's gonna die in probably 10 years or less. Hopefully he can at least finish TWOW in a few more years
@@heythere9371 It is not about time, he has the time. If he actually has a decade he could write 3 books if he has the desire to, in fact, that's precisely what he did for Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords. Really he wrote Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords in 4 YEARS and they are MASSIVE BOOKS. It is not about his ability to write this much content, he DOES NOT WANT TO! He lacks productivity and ambition, he DOES NOT WANT TO FINISH IT. Or he has lost his passion for it. Regardless we are screwed not because GRRM cannot write it but because he has abandoned it.
Yeah,like that show 'Lost" they have no clue where they are going and get stuck.
I do hope he does some significant cast burning in WoW so that whatever notes for Dream of Spring that leak out after he dies are coherent enough to paint a picture for us
realistically i doubt there will be that many deaths in WOW. Jon , sansa , arya , bran , stannis , cersei , jamie , tyrion , varys , littlefinger , faegon, danaerys will all be alive by ados . I think euron might survive past winds , theon prolly will . maybe the tyrells and martells will die
Those “unnecessary” things made the story good and readable. It made it real. It wouldn’t be the same story without the filling
10000%
It’s the reason why we can still talk lore 12 years later and say “holy shit I had no idea! That’s crazy!” I have conversations everyday with a friend. It’s a real world.
And completely unfinishable
10 months later. It's now 4/23/2024 - still no The Winds of Winter :-(
2025 apparently? Who knows anymore.
The question shouldn't be if WoW is coming out, it's whether Dream of Spring is ever coming out
I dont think that's much of a question. No one thinks ADOS is coming out, unless GRRM massively increases his rate of pages per year, or he lives to be like 110 years old and sharp minded the entire time
that question is not often made cause it answers itself
N O
We’re more likely to get visited by aliens than ADoS ever coming out, that includes after George dies because he says he doesn’t want anyone else to finish his story
A Dream of Spring is another Dune 7- it's never happening.
I had an idea that no one has really figured out yet or came up with why not us the phantom finishes it instead
Thanks for these clips. Sometimes I cannot get to the full livestream ☺️
It seems mentioning Chroyane or The Sorrows wasn't needed but it does have a big part to play, mostly because it explains where all the stone men are left, and what happened to Tyrion who passed through on the boat. and how Jon Connington gets greyscale, which will be a massive impact later on as he's now in Westeros. Its weird that he's got greyscale and there's a reason why. It also gives us an understanding of the background, such as what happened there long ago at the spice wars.
I've resigned myself to never seeing this book. If I'm wrong, I'll be thrilled.
Kill the dwarf. Kill the dwarf, Sweetrobin, so that the giant can be born
I'd add there is one major aspect simmilar to one you described that should be counted.
Original ASOIAF plan was trilogy very different from what we get, but later plan like alpha of this saga was two trilogies with 5 year gap between them.
GAP between SoS and DwD.
And we can see that GRRM was kinda putting our young heroes in places where they could spend 5 years in training, growing, to jump easily - Bran crossed the Wall to find 3 eye raven, Sansa become Littlefinger protege, Arya moved to Braavos, Jon become Lord Commander, Dany decided to stay in Meereen, and so on and so on.
But there were important fiddly bits despite it that would make GRRM plan very hard - Stannis would definitely not stay on Wall 5 years waiting for Boltons to died on their own, King's Landing was left in great mess so did Riverlands. That would make explaining all those things AFTER gap extremely hard. On the other hand - without gap he has problem with kid heroes that should become young adults by Westeros standards - so he tried to fill the gap, and this just was too much. CoK and SoS together was less than a year (in fact I think GRRM was pushing things too fast, medieval wars were usually slow, grinding endeavours - he could totally for instance make realistic long sieges instead of unrealistic successful storming after storming and allow political situation to stagnate for months - and timeline to progress SLOWLY with simmilar ammount of chapters and bigger gaps) - and here he had gap of 5 years.
It was doomed to collapse.
The fact that the Lannisters won the war in under a year was insane. Compared with how long the Wars of the Roses lasted, it just doesn't seem right. Especially with Westeros larger than South America.
Given that we know the story and characters have evolved in so many ways over the years and the song has become so much more than the author originally intended; why can't the idea of only having two more books to complete the story also be revised? I'm not so desperate to see the conclusion as I am to see further chapters and development.
I really think setting this arbitary deadline has created the problem of trying to conclude everything all at once, when, in reality, there are so many disparate stories, it doesn't even make sense for them all to directly collide. The potential war between Aegon and Dany could fill a few books alone
"bUt graramUrTin iS a gArdNeeeR" yea mate, and the garden is out of control
@chogboogus Honestly this is the first I've heard it. But I kinda turned my back on this series out of frustration since like 2014. It's a love/ hate relationship at this point but that love part has me watching asoiaf vids lately
Overgrown, unmanaged and the fruit has rotted on the vine
asoiaf is gonna be the first book series that's gonna be finished with the help of ai
Hey! Preston is not a robot!
actually I'd like to know how the AI chatbots think asoiaf will finish, or if that's impossible just specific plot threads
ChatGPT is far more disciplined then GRRM, I'll tell you that much 😂
Even if the quality won't be good, at least there will be an ending lol
Chat gpt is still worse than an average writer.
Brandon Sanderson is an AI??
The guy made zero progress in 2023, zero progress so far in 24. Do we need another near apocalypse for this guy to actually work on his book?
"Help us Covid-24, you're our only hope"
In my fanfic, i cut off Tyrions tongue and made Jon an Other. Neither are POV characters anymore, but are still characters in the story.
What the fuck is Tyrion supposed to offer without being able to speak, it’s his only weapon
@@roronoalaw7772 A creative author can make it work.
@@roronoalaw7772 he's pretty good at juggling
Why would a gardener ever be stuck? George has been at 75% of the book for nine months. That should mean that he's completed the chapters for 15 of his 20 POVs. Since Lady Stoneheart is not given any chapters that leaves 4. Who might they be? Davos, Bran, Jon (mostly as Azor Ahai, Reborn) and Daenerys. Since George has not come out and said so, I can only speculate. George has told us the he came to the last POV for one book and had to rewrite the entire book. Here's hoping that won't happen with this book that has already been delayed so long.
The most mind boggling thing is him still wanting to finish in 2 books idk how he thinks thats possible the stage he has set is like a 12 book series now
The first 3 books are so amazing to read but once you get to Feast it feels like he went full scatterbrain. He just started a million random plot lines that are in my opinion very uninteresting compared to the first 3 books which were much tighter.
I was thinking the same thing. Alaras who? Why is he introduced 5 books in and what's his role in the story? Faegon and Jon Con?! Cmon, George, you pulled these two outta your a** 😂😂
It would hilarious if he finished the books but they are loaded with oddities like mixed up characters.
Tyrion Giants Bane (brother of the Kingsguard)
Daenerys Lannister
(Sister to Jamie the Oath Keeper)
Brienne Stark
(Of Dorne in the Westerlands)
Jon Rivers
(a Faceless Man of Asshai North of the Wall)
Melisandre
(The Mother of Dragons)
“God Save Queen Cersei, man…”
Was someone vacuuming while he was broadcasting?
In short, the plot after SOS is complete clusterfuck.
You hear he is a gardner a thousand times well maybe thats all he knows what to do is grow stuff not resolve anything.I assumed HOT D was done, Dunkin Egg. I saw if he was writing tjust wo paraghs a day or something he would be done with Winds of winter.
The problem with Winds is that he start 2 new storylines: The iron islands and dorne
I don't think that was the problem. Theon was the one POV introduced us to the Iron Islands in ACOK.
But with Winds, George now has to deal with Areo, Arianne, (formerly Arys), (formerly Quentyn) for Dorne; Asha, Victarion, Aeron for the Iron Islands.
I know many of them have been killed or moved off, but seriously, adding 6 new POVs just for Dorne and the Islands again, this gardener is a fool
Everyone of us has that thing we’ve been meaning to get around to but just never do.
I don't think this is the justification you think it is my guy 😂
Being 30 and having never been in college, I can totally relate.
I think Preston is way off in the wrong direction, TWOW isn't going to be about expanding the storyline - it's about converging it. Preston isn't really thinking like a writer, you have to look at the story as a whole. AFFC was a midpoint book so it made sense that the story was still growing. TWOW is going to take us to right before the climax, so the story will be contracting.
That means less POVs, not more. Some of this will come from characters dying, but others will be from characters meeting and arcs converging; many POVs were introduced so the reader could watch the story play out in a place we had no existing POVs in. I think Preston has become so bitter that he interprets every decision by GRRM in the most uncharitable and unreasonable way.
It's almost insulting to GRRM's intelligence to suggest that he is so unaware of the mechanics of his story that he would start introducing new POVs and arcs at this stage. It's also quite uninformed since GRRM confirmed a while ago that he would not be introducing new POVs (barring the prologue).
Dude, he is not saying WHAT George should do, he is analyzing what he did before and is forecasting what may actually happen if the book comes out. It is logical for George to wrap up loose ends, but he explains that it is taking him so long because he literally does not know how to wrap it all up, Books 4-5 are smell of being unfinished as each lacks climax and he added more storylines into them. He predicts that is the reason our author is struggling and if the book comes out it will reflect him not being able to overcome this struggle and not have enough loose ends wrapped up anyway
Underrated comment
This is exactly what I was thinking
Hopium.
I am really praying GRRM is pulling off a massive surprise for all of we cynics. Hoping he's writing the whole thing and lying to us before he dies. Posthumously published. It's my only faith in getting to the end...
Sweet summer child..
I really hope Preston doesn’t mess up Jon’s story just to be “edgy”. It’s literally my favorite story in the whole series but I can tell Preston either hates Jon or hates what Jon stands for in the story and is going to write him off in some stupid way just to be different.
Please elaborate what you think Jon stands for and why you think Preston hates this.
Super curious!!
He’s the classic reluctant good guy fantasy hero. If ASOIAF was any other fantasy story he would be the only POV or the most important of only a couple. He’s someone anybody who loves their family and just wants to do the right thing can relate to. IMO in the real world most people are like that but in Westeros there’s not many which makes him special in a way that his heritage and rank can’t. I personally think he’s the beating heart of the story and would love for him to lead the charge in the fight against winter both politically and on the battlefield. I’m not naive enough to think anyone in the story will get a completely happy ending but if anyone deserved it it’s Jon Snow. I would love to see him fight for Sansa, Danny, Faegon or even the others if he felt he had to. I wouldn’t mind if his story is about how a good person can go “bad” and have him turn selfish and take winterfell or the iron throne for himself becoming a true cold hearted king of winter like the Starks of old. Just don’t kill him. I had to read about Ned dying which broke my heart then the red wedding smashed it into pieces they can’t take my boy Jon too lol. Preston has said multiple times he sees Jon as the bathroom symbol for a mens restroom and while I understand what he means I find that such a gross simplification of Jon’s character it’s almost ridiculous. There are so many paths you could go with Jon’s character you would be lying to say his story is “boring” or “predictable” which is what most haters say including Preston. Jon is needed not to be a leader (though he could and probably should be) but to unite the people who hate each other because Jon can almost always find common ground with someone which is a super rare trait in Westeros. I mean I could go on and on but I feel like I’m just saying the same thing in different ways lol. Thanks for asking though I love talking ASOIAF. What do you think of Jon? Do you think my reasons are stupid?
@@KingOfWinter Man, you know that Jon was KILLED in the last book right?
@@jolopolo4761 hes obviously getting ressurected
@@aDsnow why are you so sure?
way back when the tv series surpassed him I felt it was pretty obvious that he would never be able to finish the books. He allowed D&D to destroy his baby.
Yeh
They will be released when they're finished.
So nwver
when i don’t have you i’m losing my midn
Jon better not die. In either story.
I think I over estimated him and I dedicated a lot of my time to those books and youtube to understand more and it's frankly an insult for him to be annoyed at us.
He has a right to be annoyed, and we have a right to complain
It comes down to George's priorities. He has prioritized writing spinoff shows for hbo rather than continuing to work on his magna opus. He isn't distracted by these other projects. He has prioritized them above ASOIF. I do agree that he has made his story bigger than it needed to be, but! To put it simply I think it's his greed. He can make more more money more easily selling shows to HBO. He could make ASOIF a series that contains ten books. Why is he constraining himself to two more books? Because he simply doesnt care about anymore. My opinion is that the main reason he hasn't progressed the story has nothing to do with the story itself. It has to do with real world things. His greed is why we dont have more ASOIF and ultimately why GoT ended so disappointingly.
I don't think it's greed. Listen to GGRM or even read his books and you'll see he's a very sensitive person. He deletes entire chapters if he gets self conscious about them. He has a lot of empathy and he knows millions of people are going to be disappointed if he messes up the final books. So he prioritizes less stressful things like HBO shows (which don't effect his magnum opus). I'm not saying that's a positive trait but it seems more likely he's afraid of ruining the series with a bad ending so he's avoiding it.
It's basic procrastination. He's stuck, he's written himself into a massive hole and it's a depressing struggle to make any progress. If he's doing something else he can feel like he's productive and just put Winds into the back of his mind. It's not about money like he could just finish it if focused on it, if he had not worked on anything else apart of Winds I think we'd be in pretty much the same spot, just with no F&B, no TWOIAF. It would have a drastic affect on his mental health, he probably have just stopped writing anything.
Agreed
The thing he likes to write most is the endorsement on checks HBO gives him for more adaptations of more incomplete stories
It should have been a D&D campaign setting instead of a novel series
He might as well give the Script to chat gpt at this point
Haha, 11 months later I was about to comment that
Anyone else not dig how, as another comment put it, “uncharitable” and pessimistic Preston is towards GRRM? Bad vibes bro.
how is he being uncharitable? Also, Preston is being pessimistic because Grrm has gone 12 years without releasing an asoiaf book and he is only 75% done. There is no way in hell you can spin that in an optimistic light.
If the House of Dragon show flopped, GRRM would’ve released WoW *expeditiously* and that’s the real tea
Hopefully Brandon Sanderson isn't his backup😅
He either hasn't been working on it or he has been working on it but can't figure out where to take the plot.
I genuinely don't understand the take that winds of winter won't release. We know for a fact he has worked on it. We know that alot of effort has gone into not only this single book but the entire series. Maybe dream of spring won't come out but winds 100% will
Yeah people are switching lanes fast
it used to be
“well he will never write WoW”
then “he will never finish it”
then “we will get WoW but not DoS”
then it seems to be coming to “he will never fit everything into two books”
It’s funny ti see iver the years how the fandom switches and always finds the ways to be harsh under the mask of “i’m just being realistic”
Only one thing we know for a fact...
0% chance George releases Winds. If it ever comes out, it will be like Christopher Tolkien compiling his dad’s notes for a (sort of) narrative. He’s just lost.
@@title4445 lmfao. People be wilding if you think that's the case. He's already said he doesn't want some one else to finish it.
He has come out recently talking about his progress on the book
@@MrMythul he literally said the same thing a decade ago. It’s never happening
Preston, do you still have this opinion today?
5%....oh crap.
c'moooooon. tyrion is one of the most interesting povs.if he dies before the ending i'll die inside. many ppl complain about his dance chapters, but i think his slavery time should've lasted longer. it would've been some of the best character development i've read. this way it feels somewhat unrealistic, just like most things in Essos. george isn't the best at depicting foreign cultures, even through western eyes. the slavery chapters are still fab ,just like everything lannister related. they behave like real ppl. CHARACTER PSYCHOLOGY IS WHERE GRRM SHINES AND COMPLICATED FAMILY DINAMICS ARE HIS SPECIALITY . I'M aware that it's her story, but ,imo, daenerys after AGOT is the most useless pov. she feels way too perfect to be likable. somehow she manages to be the savior and a girl next door at the same time,as well as a wise politician and humanist ,all at the age of 16.
GRRM is getting into way too much detail. He needs to whittle it down.
Preston Jacobs regressed from being a bitter critic of D&D to being a bitter critic of GRR Martin
That’s not regression dude.
@@eleineg That depends. Preston is extremely unlikeable in this video
@@StommelenGames he’s pretty unlikeable in most of his videos these past couple of years. Completely agree with your assessment.
i mean, he doesnt really sound very bitter. He was just answering the dudes question
The truth hurts man.
When will people realise that George doesnt give a phuck about winds anymore. It was probably scrapped years ago with no progress besides the samples. All of his attention is on the spin off shows, hes always wanted to work in television but wrote books because he couldn’t. Now that he can you think hes gonna just turn it down. The money, the fame, the attention, the much easier work, the opportunity to just sit on his a*s all day? Nah. He only continues to lie and lie and lie about winds being worked on so the fandom can stay interested in westeros in hopes that, that interest would transfer to the spin offs. Hes given hints of this for years, his constant contradictions with the books progress, countless failed deadlines and bitter attitude towards his fans and praise for hbo and the access media. He hates his fans, doesn’t care about his story or legacy and wants to spend the rest of his days larping as a studio big wig. Thats your king…. Stop being blinded by his writing and see him for who he really is. Whens the last time he’s even said anything positive about his readers? Has he ever? Every chance he gets to talk to or about the fandom its ALWAYS negativity and always passive aggressive in tone.
I can't imagine being so arrogant as to think, if I find this hard, GRRM can't do it. Reducing books to "a number of pages" is ludicrous. I can never figure out why anyone listens to this guy.
Preston says a lot of dubious things (like saying based on pagecount GRRM must not have been writing during the show even though we know ADWD would go down in pagecount in some years), but GRRM's inability to finish the story is something he's been demonstrating for years without Preston's help.
wanna bet actual money on A Dream of Spring ever coming out?
put your money where your mouth is :^D
@@inigo137 is that supposed to be a response to what I actually commented or are you just as reactionary as you seem?
Thank you! The audacity amazes me, and from a man whose built his livelihood off the back of GRRMs writing.
@@Mwezi828 Grrm doesnt owe his fans anything. the corollary of that is "we don't owe Grrm anything"
i think his comments on george are accurate but the fact that hes so cavalier about killing tyrion means he doesn't really understand the story
I've been waiting for this kind of content🙏🤌