This huge 3D printer was fun, but absolutely no one should buy it - Formbot Raptor 2.0 review!
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- What happens when you try to baloon up a 3D printer’s spec sheet, but don’t actually know how to build a decent 3D printer? Well, Vivedino happens.
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How long till they send an email begging to take this video down and "We sent it to you to give us feedback, why did you upload a malicious review!?" We have already fixed these issueS! >_> Seen this all before, 2020 it has to stop.
"malicious review!?" UGH!! Remind me to never be an "influencer."
Thanks for the review of this. I learned a lot. I had the same issue with a Creality CR10. It was dangerously assembled and I sent it back.
Better if you guys just refuse to “ review” them. Like you did the A8 which never set any house on fire…nor did any of 5 I have had and sold on 4 …all still running the only heat they produce is beds and nozzles.
Huge Kudos to you Angus, Thomas for this review and your peers in the YT space that always manage to give the straight forward unbiased reviews. Showing backbone, ethics and morals while looking out for yours and others interests outside of "making the almighty buck" makes you and the gang, a great bunch of professionals. Don't think for a minute we don't notice it and appreciate it because we do. Thanks for the review Thomas. As painful as it was to get through that. The irony to me in all of this is the fact that the makers of these things don't realize that even newb's like myself, while not a PRO at 3d Printing? I've spent 25 plus years in tech, as an engineer, and would've beat this up for all the same reasons Thomas / Angus / All would. It doesn't take a pro in a particular vertical market to recognize flaws of this nature. As such, it's an insult to sell me a what, thousand dollar machine? With the level of shortcomings this one brought to the table. /End Rant...
AHEM COFF COFF ~Anet~ COFF COFF
"one should not assume malice for what stupidity can explain" that's great.
Hanlon's law
@Bryant RudolphThat would explain what's going on with Congress right now.
There's also Grey's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice".
@@nyyotam4057 Sound like an inverse quote from Arthur Clarke:_"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" jajj...
@@Zitropat Indeed. Grey didn't hide the fact that his was the opposite of Clarke's third law.
Thanks for being honest, and telling us the real information and not the marketing spin. Appreciate it.
Releases neurotoxin
GLaDOS approves
The cake is a lie...
@@misadventuresin3dprinting.545 You will be baked and then there will be cake!
I thought the exact same thing when he said that. LOL!
There will be cake.
Иван Снежков I came to comment exactly that... I guess not now
Oh no! It reminds me of my Tevo Tornado. I COMPLETELY rewired it with proper 3 core flex, added fuses, changed the ridiculous 10a fuse in the PSU, changed the wiring so that it is now fused on the live and not the neutral and doesn't present exposed mains voltage to the connectors at the rear of the control box, added Protective Earth to the frame, added strain relief to the unearthed skinny mains powered heated bed cables at both the bed and control box ends, added extra insulation to the skinny mains powered heated bed cables, shimmed-out the frame to make it straight, added a bltouch and blue tape to to heatbed (after trying various other solutions like glass etc) to compensate as best as possible for the warped bed, uploaded completely new firmware with thermal runaway protection enabled, changed the power supply for a decent one, changed the solid relay for a decent one, changed the fake FTDI chip on the mainboard to allow Octopi to work and allow it to communicate properly with a computer, added a Rasperry Pi with Temperature Failsafe and Smartplug plugins to shut down power if the temps started misbehaving, added a smoke alarm linked to a hacked 433Mhz socket to shut it off if there was smoke, changed all the wirewrap, changed the SD (which had been programmed to report a fake size).... I still won't turn my back on it and it still needs Pritt Stick to print anything reliably but is at least usable. Other than that, it is great. Last time I buy anything from them...
Ill keep rebuttal very short and simple. Some points ill fill in background.
First off, compare it to anything else in the price category. Its a $1k USD machine, not $5k. That's less than a CR10S5 that only heats the center 300mm. Feedrates you're comparing a bondtech geared extruder to a el cheapo. Please keep price category of the machine in mind. Same with filament spool management. I don't like it either but its what I expect for coming with a machine in this price range. Its almost a given you'll be doing something else shortly.
As for firmware safety features, aside from a batch shipped the very first week, which they openly admitted was mistakenly shipped with a bad flash, these do have thermal runaway flashed on every machine. Also as a plus, they did not hesitate to publish source. It matches a build from Marlin 2.0 Bugfix dated Sept 23rd 2018. Same date snapshot as code provided by one of the core Marlin developers to them for the Trex machine. Given that, it was a validated snapshot in most regards with issues larger than a release would have being outside what was in use on the machine. 32 bit HAL's were the primary development focus. Im not sure what other safety features you think are missing but it seems a good area to focus more on.
When I put a meter on the Formbot machines I have, I get continuity from the bed to the main ground plug. Lack of one on the keenovo side is irrelevant. On the statement of the Y stepper, it is a nema 17 but a fairly large one. Not quite super whopper size but almost.
I do agree it should have had more testing before going out, as the cable chain issue was addressed somewhere around 8-10 months ago and the XY drivers were changed to TMC2209 to drive a little more current and generate less heat. I wont argue those points. On the temperature claims, the bed is adhered with the keenovo provided adhesive which they rate to 250c. I have personally run one up to 180c with Kapton tape instead of PEI without an issue there. A disclaimer on print surface not withstanding full bed capability would be nice however. I had a BMG-M mounted to it with a nice mosquito running much more interesting materials (3DXTech CF infused is great stuff!).
The hotend temperature claims on the other hand were born from some very bad miscommunication between Capricorn and Formbot. In part because of the way its marketed and in part because of Formbot's lack of validation, they took the 350c melting point statement and ran with it. The thermistor is rated for the temperature however so they have that much at least. I have discussed with with both Ada Fang and Mohammed Baz and the whole thing is quite unfortunate.
"Lack of one on the keenovo side is irrelevant." no its not irrelevant, because if you've just got that plugged in the machine is not grounded which is unsafe. If they had combined the two cords then this would not be an issue.
@@jaro6985 In all seriousness is anyone going to run it like that? In any normal situation it wont matter. Yes it would have been nice but under operation irrelevant. Just means during maintenance be smart and pull both.
I didn't know you had a cameraman until I saw him at 7:17.
Not sure it's him.
I thought the fact, that the camera is moving several times while tom's speaking with both his hands clearly visible is a dead giveaway... but on the other hand, it's tom and he could've built his own robot arm to control the camera. 🤷♂️
Tom is so angry at this printer, he didn't even care the cameraman photobombed his shot :p
Na, that is just Tom again. Its' a special abilities of Germans to be in the two places at the same time for greater efficiency.
@@ElectraFlarefire True, you know those Germans always make good stuff.
I have a "Trex", cousin of the Raptor. I would say these printers are valuable to small group of people. They are definitely not for everyone. I agree with so many points you have made. The wiring is horrible. Mine had a custom POS ribbon cable going to the carriage. It caught on everything. Im glad my cat chewed it in half. Weak does not begin to describe the extruders. It is a crime to call the included hot ends e3d volcanos (not even a 1/4 of the quality). But, the machine has a nice motion system that is rigid and smooth. After a few years of messing around, mine will produce prints that are better than my Ultimaker3 can make. It takes more involvment though. I upraded to 32 bit board (first week), real E3d extruder and hot end, 0.9 degree steppers, and custom bed holders. Interestingly, ive never had trouble with the steppers skipping, even at .7 amps. I now have trinamic step sticks, and they will skip if i push it to fast. It appears the only name brand item on the printer is the BL Touch sensor. I also take advantage of the large build platform for laser engraving (not the peice of crap that was included) and light rotary engraving. It does very well.
Thanks for reading!
maybe I'm just tired but "I'm glad my cat chewed it in half" is so funny to me
Wow, what a rant!
deserved !
Thomas, I think you need to get off the fence and tell us what you really think of this machine ;)
No rant, just an honest product warning.
It's a bit disingenuous to call the bugfix branch the "beta" branch. It is what everyone should be running since the prod release has a LOT of issues that bugfix fixes. It it was running the dev-2.1.x then that would definitely be a beta line.
I will say this the hotend is using genuine Capricorn PTFE which is rated to 340C
I really appreciate an honest review like this, I am sure it will prevent some people from burning their house down or worse using a printer they thought safe.
This machine is safe, mine had all the protections working out of the box, and works fine after some tuning. Its nowhere near as bad as he says..
I actually like having the heated bed on a separate power cord. I have my electronics and extruded plugged into a UPS, so a power flicker doesn’t ruin a print. A 750w bed heater would drain that quickly enough that it would be expensive to a battery or it wouldn’t last long enough to be useful. The rest about this machine though .. woof.
Great point about the UPS. I've never used a printer with a heated bed, but it seems once the first layer is down, it becomes less important anyway....?
@@McTroyd For PLA, a not having a heated bed is all right especially with smaller prints but even then, a heated bed still helps. But if you're printing in PETG/ABS/PC you do need a heated bed.
@@shadow7037932 Duly noted, thanks! At the moment my printer is PLA only (stock Da Vinci Jr), but that info will be helpful when the time comes to hack it for upgrades.
@@McTroyd once your heated bed cools, the expansion differential between the bed and the part causes it to release. in some cases, i could see this absolutely causing a failed print. that said, i would hope the heated bed had enough insulation on it to keep that from happening during a minor power interruption. for a prolonged power interruption a UPS will do no good anyway.
@MichaelKingsfordGray Which should not cause any issue. As long as you not cheaped out the cabling and insulation. It should pass 2.5kV RMS HiPot testing, right?
I love the exposed ground wire randomly attached to the back of the control box
I absolutely love that you dismantled the printer at the end and showed us all that nitty gritty. Too many reviewers out there don't bother doing that and just want to keep their free machine intact for personal use.
SUPERB review, as usual. Have you ever contacted a manufacturer and asked something like, “What were you thinking? Didn’t you realize that customers would notice your flawed engineering?”
I’ve had the 400x400x700 for almost a year. I had a few layer shifts that I corrected by installing a better fan for the motherboard. Upgraded the hotend to the E3D V6 and use a polypropylene bed. Reasonable upgrades and it prints like a dream! No signs of any unusual wear and tear...
Well, that is not the point, isn't it? You should not need to invest more money to correct mistakes which the manufacturer should not have made in first place. It is shifting the burden to the customer and pretends a seemingly good price but has a hidden cost on top.
Still a fire hazard!!
I had to use this thing for work for a year. We logged well over 1000 hours on it. At times it was great, but always, always required constant tinkering. PLA used around the hotend... Give me a break! The very fact that your hot end cable can catch on your print shows that it could have never been tested to its maximum volume.
Thomas, nice to see someone really pointing out the crap.
"they even include a laser upgrade kit, cause you know, laser are safe" i LOL'd so hard :)
This was so much fun to watch. This technical precise reviews are crucial do dicern the crap from good designs.
1:15
"It costs between 900 dollars and 1100 euros."
I like how you managed to make sure that almost no one will be able to fully understand the price range.
It is simple - US price and EU price. US uses $ EU uses €. Simple.
They are different and EU price uses to be considerably higher - due to the tax.
Like know one will no what a night in shining armor will do on the knight of Christmas eve and who nose what to do? Oh I no know what!
It's really easy dude think of a euro as 1.1 usd and it's like 900 to 1250 usd or around 800 to 1100 euros.
It's somewhere between a rock and a hard place.
@@antonisautos8704 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
@@mungo7136 the issue is the word "between". He didn't say it costs $x USD or €y Euro. Ranges are usually given in the same units. Much like you wouldn't say that you're going to hike somewhere between 5 miles and 10 kilometers.
It's all okay though, we're just having fun with that one quote.
I own the Trex 2 + it is a fine printer and with the right upgrades it prints like a dream. I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner but with the right upgrades they do perform great with large prints. I run stock hot ends and extruders and have no issues pushing filament for long prints and I get good prints with larger nozzle sizes as well. I have had no issues with wires chafing but the rex 2 + didn't come with a cable chain.
Glad to see your results fit with my warning that it wasn't worth the time. And glad to see a nice honest assessment of the machine. Sadly many of these issues are present on earlier models as well. I'm shocked to see they remain on a newer revision. Hopefully the companies building these will take this feedback and make the needed improvements now that someone with a voice has said these things.
This printer turns your house into Volcano hot end.
Care to provide your data for this statement ? Documented cases of these printers causing a fire ? Or you just spewing bs some reviewer said "could happen"?
@@mhanson762 If mine had any issue it would sound a loud alarm and shut the printer off
@@mattmeyer6471 exactly any one that has a 3d printer and a brain has some sort of fire detection and supression system . I would never trust the printers thermal runaway protections anyways.
@@mhanson762 I own this machine and it sounds alarms if i have issues. After seeing fires on other machiens i have stuff setup but i trust this printer at this time. I do however go over all connections before i start a multi day print to ensure its gtg with any printer i own.
@@mhanson762 Watch the part with the heated bed cable chain again. Even assuming marlins thermal runaway protection is enabled ( I not sure if it is ) A 220v cable just needs a few seconds to start a fire when the insulation is rubbed through.
love you Thomas, the only 3d printer reviewer out there who tells it like it is instead of just giving a glowing review for every machine for kickbacks *cough*3d printer nerd*cough*
Makers Muse has been calling them out for some time
@@youngster30uk that's fair. i forget about him because he took such a long hiatus
I made the mistake to buy the original Formbot T-Rex at full price back then when I started 3D printing and knew nothing, around 2k€ ... After a few years of trying to get it to print better than "good enough", it ended up as nice supply of aluminium extrusion for my Corexy project. I could've built the same printer for less than 700€, but I guess you always get burnt when you start, especially a few years back when the choice was much more limited and less reviews were out there
Thanks for doing your part in keeping consumers informed and safe!
I had similar fears before buying my Sidewinder X1 v4 last Black Friday for US$350. Nothing but total delight so far, but I'm keeping a close eye on it.
What I like most is how well it prints those "goopy" cheap metallic satin PLA filaments. Shockingly good results with no fuss at all, using standard settings. This after wasting time, filament, nozzles, heat-breaks (and heartbreaks) on my other printers. Love the Volcano melt zone!
I'd love to see this printer rebuild video to make it a good reliable machine
If I ever see this printer for sale used, and I can get a good price, now I know exactly what to alter and replace. Excellent review, thanks!
“One shouldn’t assume malice for what stupidity can explain”
There’s a fantastic quote right there :) sums up many machines and kits
Thank you for showing us how a 3D printer shouldn’t be made! Already, I am very keen on how the Voron 2.4 build plate stays static - I can see how that is a good thing when it has a 230V heater. I currently run a modified Tronxy x5 and am looking at ideas for my next printer. Note that the Tronxy also uses a 40-pin interconnect between controller and extruder/hotend wiring, but it actually serves a purpose there by lifting the interconnect ‘daughterboard’ to near the top of the frame, so the wiring from extruder/hotend is standard length while the electronics stay low-down for cooling. It seems the designers of this Raptor completely missed that purpose of having an interconnect board. Perhaps they never had to change a fan or thermistor. No malice, just stupidity :)
I have this machine haven’t experienced any of the issues you talk about. I’ve done several multi day prints not had any shifting. I’ve checked my wire chain and after a year of use no signs of wear at all. I’m not saying it’s a perfect machine but I really feel it doesn’t deserve the beat down you gave it
A friend of mine just bought this. the store selling it updated the wiring to pass CSA standards. He's been going crazy figuring out the layer shifts.
The issue is the moving bed. The increasing mass, increases the mass moment of inertia, causing more and more unstability. A printer this large should be a fixed bed, with a full 4 stepper motor gantry that does all movements. CNC milling machines etc, are designed that way for a reason. The increase or decrease in mass is happening on a fixed location, while the moving gantry does not shrink or gain any mass..
Agreed. An HyperCube, that is :-). EDIT: Well, a Delta could also do it, but a Delta with its complex movements and its flimsy head.. I like the HyperCube idea better.
Off topic: RUclips rephrased your comment into "CNC... Are designed that way for a read more..."
I found that quite funny.
I know nothing about 3-D printing, but I used to be a cabinetmaker, so I know a little bit about handtools and woodworking machinery. I'm almost happy to see that this printer is so flawed. You know why? Because it gives an essential kick in the rear to every manufacturer who thinks that this remarkable new(-ish) technology should be cheap and available to all.
But it shouldn't be, and people need to see videos like this to appreciate why. Frankly, quality still costs money! It's as true now as it was 1,000 years ago. In my field, a good woodworking chisel can cost upwards of £100. It'll take and hold an edge you can forget about, meaning you'll be able to devote every scrap of your attention to getting the job done. The tool just becomes 'you'. A cheapo £3.00 chisel won't be much use for anything more than prising the lids off tins of polish.
A decent smoothing plane can cost £350. It will never let you down and will produce consistently excellent results for literally hundreds of years. Yes, really. A cheap and nasty copy will only cost £15 but it will be crudely finished, impossible to 'fettle', adjust and fine-tune, will damage the job you're working on, and will give unpredictable degrees of finish. Of course it'll let you make things, but it'll only let you do it... badly. Rather like this dodgy 3-D printer.
The same applies to woodworking machinery. Setting up a workshop? Try to buy quality. You'll never regret it. Don't buy new unless someone else is paying, because you'll go bankrupt. Buy used stuff with cast iron beds, enormous old-school motors and huge, solid, heavy, finely-calibrated hand-wheel adjustments. Forget about electronics and LED screens and fancy automation that lets you run it from your mobile phone - such things are included at the expense of the bits that really matter. So a lot of people will seek out vintage machinery that's 'matured' over 60 or so years of daily workshop use. It'll be better than any of the shiny flimsy stuff built down to a price and which will need constant attention and repair and give lousy results in comparison.
The old adage about a bad worker blaming his tools is entirely reasonable if the tools are decent, but it's fair criticism if you're holding a piece of rubbish in your hands. 3-D printing would seem to be no different. A few years ago these were exotic industrial machines costing £50,000 or more. So why should people think that a hobby-grade version costing £800 will be wonderful? It may be fun to experiment with, but you'll spend more time improving it than actually using it. So the hobby becomes not printing, but fiddling. Lots of people get hooked and absorbed in buying cheap then upgrading their 'toys' - which seems like a harmless enough thing in itself and is actually very satisfying - BUT it can be ludicrously expensive (be honest with yourself!) and it sends out the wrong message to manufacturers. To wit: why should they produce quality goods when their uncomplaining customers are prepared to do the work for them!
Thankfully, this kind of proper assessment and review should help to stop people making some unfortunate purchasing decisions. 3-D printing is fascinating and clearly brilliant fun, but not if you're expecting to get professional results from what's basically a half-finished machine.
And it's not the buyer's fault that he thinks his hobby-grade printer will be great; it's the fault of the unscrupulous manufacturer who's filled his head with unrealistic expectations.
Bravo for an honest review, sir. Let's hope the manufacturers take note.
"...since it has some of the essential safety features of Marlin disabled..." SERIOUSLY??
Damn.
Does it come with an automatic fire suppression system?
I thought not.
Nice review. Maybe the best ever, anywhere.
I bought the T-Rex 2 when it came out. If you think the raptor is bad, consider yourself lucky. they used to use a long ribbon cable to the extruder with nothing holding it up. it would catch on the bed ant on parts. The bed was controlled by a stand alone controller instead of by the printer. there was no belt tensioner for the Y axis. There were other issues, too. After spending as much on replacement parts as I originally spent on the printer, I eventually gave up and scrapped it for parts.
It can print noodles
And if you try often enuf, it can cook Ur noodles too, with a side serve of neurotoxin.
Tom, I understand your complaints, but at the same time I use a gCreate gMax 1.5xt at work. The gMax came with most of the same issues for a price of around $3500 USD. My opinion is for the price your getting a better priced starting point. As for your skipped steps. On our gMax, I swapped the stock pulleys for smaller ones to allow for more torque as well as using drv8825 drivers on the x, y and z. Should printers come with these problems? No, but considering what you get, I would gladly take the Raptor as a project. That said, I recently purchased a SainSmart Coreception and think it's one of the best values available. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks always for your content.
honest and non biased review 👍
I bought a troodon, nothing but issues like yours, and I complained in the FB group. The admin decided to make an announcement that all the issues I had were due to customs and that she was not at fault and my machine was thoroughly inspected and I was crazy to think it was their fault. She then kicked me from the FB group. This company is horrible, and you were right to post this.
Bringing these issues to light helps the rest of us identify similar issues on other printers we have that might not have a specific review. Thanks for the warning.
Imagine someone in your company willingly sending Tom your shotty product without anticipating how honest and thorough his review will be.
When I saw the belt tensioner I started chuckling 😂
The two power leads make sense to me. IEC to UPS for reliability - especially in rural areas. My large printer has the same arrangement. Mine was made by ADMG and Alex there has a lot of experience with large printers -- he says that everything gets exponentially harder with printer size.
Danke Thomas für diese Vorstellung, endlich mal ehrliche Worte und kein Hersteller gesteuerter Review.
Saubere Arbeit💪 und Grüße aus Berlin
Thank you for your review !! I couldn't agree with you more !! This machine is dangerous !. Like you said it needs weeks to produce parts and upon printing i almost caught fire !! The wires under the bed melted !! And generally the extrusion set was weak !. The bed heat is exactly as you said also ! It bubbles when you go over 85.
Aww, I kinda liked you dodging the raptor that was shooting lasers out of its eyes featured previously in the thumbnail!
Those heatsinks are not even in contact with the PCB. Guaranteed to have overheat cut out of driver's. So many issues, Great honest review.
If they sold just the frame they could make some money.
OUCH! i bought a formbot raptor after seeing your video. I have had some issues with it but not as bad as yours. Yes that extruder was garbage. I have upgraded to 2209 drivers and the firmware was upgraded as well from tiny machines. I have done many 40 hour print jobs with no issues. I did upgrade to the spring steel sheet and that made a big difference on the bed platform. But for the price the other options like the creality cr10max after adding all the high end options that printer goes well above the price for the raptor.
Yeah he seems extremely negative, I have one too, its a chinese machine, needs some love. But for the price it works great imo. It does not really feel like a review, more like a rant
one of the issues with 3d printers is that no one uses " flex" cables. so yes the cables fail but if you get proper drag chain compliant cables you should be fine. although it is a bit expensive
I bought a Raptor 2 + that can print 400x400x700 in September last year because I needed a printer that could print 620 mm. I had no problems with the printer, all I changed was the bed to glass and the hotend to a copper. I have no problems with layer switch, of the 3 printer I have this is my go to when the model is to big for my ender 5.
I think the heated bed has its own plug maybe because it could exceed a home circuit... Its also a keenovo mat, so its just off the shelf with its own power.
For US users, at 120v, the 1200w mats start to tap out a 15amp circuit where you may need to branch out to 2 different circuits.
The Schuko connector is actually fine since the alternative Europlugs (EN 50075) are only allowed for up to 2.5A or about 600W. It is perfectly OK to use a Schuko plug without its name giving Schutzkontakt actually :)
10:36 Glados has entered the chat.
I think the reason they advertise 350C is because of the dedicated fan for cooling the throat. They probably believe that they can establish enough of a temperature differential between the hotend and the throat that they can keep the PTFE from degrading.
This thing surely has potential . Frame and mechanicals are solid and after a few days of work it would be fantastic .... but only after those afew days :)
Well, and a fairly hefty chunk of cash.....
Mine was awesome out of the box, one slightly noisy fan, but otherwise great. Best benchy I've ever seen as a first print. Been printing full scale storm trooper armor for a couple of weeks now, flawless (actually 70 percent scale parts, for my son, but big pieces nonetheless.)
I have this machine and so far, I did a BMG mod, moved the SSR to the PSU box, installed a flex plate, and bigger nema17. currently, I’m working on upgrading the board
so basically changed everything? Why not build one then from the beginning?
Btw, my machine is two years old and it got all of the same issues.
nukularpictures Because I have already bought it. I was fooled by the specs.
My friend has the T-Rex plus or whatever. Dual independent x axis print heads. The design was okay. But the ball screws are silly. When you need 2 z screws and you don't have a way to sync them like mach3 cnc machines can do with dual limit switches it's probably best to have a frame mounted Bowden extruder or at least an extruder that doesn't require you to compress a spring as it's easy to back drive the lead screws and de sync your axis. If some sync process isn't an option like stalling the axis against a stop then it's probably beneficial to use single start lead screws as they don't back drive like 4 start or ball screws making it less likely for accidental desyncs.. The z screws or couplings run out and it proved an improvement to remove the top support bearings. Some of the guide bearings weren't well adjusted, the head bed has an external controller. It's 24v drive which sounds nice but really only helps travel moves as these small stepper drives often make a little less torque with higher voltages. The bed is so heavy the acceleration must be slow. The drives came adjusted for 12v and needed to be turned down for 12v operation. Although we did get it tuned it wasn't for beginners. They never released source code or a pins.h file and it had weird issues when trying to connect it to a terminal. I want to flash it but with the 40pin header I just don't trust that the ramps pin configuration is correct and am not taking things that far until I have the hardware to replace it if need be. I just don't have the time to write programs to wiggle the pins and reverse engineer the pins.h file. We are probably going to change over to a big tree tech 32bit board once I get the dev environment figured out and just wire it from scratch. Most printers I consider a kit. Like 20 years ago you'd buy a model airplane and you'd change like 80% of the hardware to your own liking as time went on. Yet somehow creality printers seem okay out of the box despite all the designs that look like shortcuts.
Hmm, I've got this printer and it's awesome. Seems very solidly built and runs well. No print flaws at all, prints better than my cr20 pro. I've had it running almost constantly for the last couple of weeks, no issues. The supplier I bought from (here in Canada) added a power enclosure to pass CSA inspections and included a fan assembly for higher temps.
You are renewing my trust in German language talent. There still is a tiny trace of an accent, but your English is perfect, excellent vocabulary, and you can tell you have fun speaking it. Thanks for that. Apart from that: Great reviews, dude. Well done.
There are so many carp products out there today. The race to the bottom seems to be picking up speed every day. Products like this make the el cheapo plastic-framed printers of a few years ago look good.
Thanks for keeping us all Alive🤓
Did the manufacturer's competitor send this to you for review? 😁
I had a similar experience with the Wanhao Duplicator 9(not as bad as this). The mark 1 was terrible, and i really struggeled to get a successful print out of it. They released mark 2 not long after, and I had to buy an upgrade kit that they should have given out for free. Tricking people into buying unfinished 3d printers and betatest them seem to be way too common these days.
Well at least the aluminum frames and lead screws are great spare parts for other machines.
Not really for 1000 us
I would take a Raptor over 2 Prusa's any day !!!!!!!!!!!!!
me too, and id like to see a montage of all the excuses tom has made for e3d and prussias quality control issues. i love toms videos and am a regular listener to his podcast but this review is clearly biased. i am biased too i am happy with my trex2+ and the customer service from the factory.
Well, I have a printer like this for two years now, actually two of them.
But no, I won't defend it, Thomas is right, most of its parts are junk.
On the other hand I have constantly pretty good results with them somehow.
Both are still stock, but the plan is from minute zero to replace its motherboard and hotend-extruder combo.
I would say that the latest images were more eloquent than the whole video: you completely disassembled the printer and never did it with other tested products.
I really think you didn't do it to fix their mistakes, but to reduce a useless footprint. :-)
The guides of the printing plate, however, were well made: an extruded aluminum with steel bars on the points of wear. Very useful for an upgrade to other printers
Thanks dude, nice to see some of my concerns were justified.
Wow! What a shoddy piece of kit! Well done for calling out the manufacturer! It can kill you in so many ways!
Odd, I have one of these printers. Granted, my reseller has had the SSR that controls the heated bed modified, moved and enclosed in a grounded aluminum electrical box on the side of the printer and not under the heated bed (which is then UL and ETL certified in canada), and the firmware is not a beta version of marlin. I've had nothing but successful, large prints out of this. I only print PLA so I haven't pushed the temp settings, nor would I bother printing something like ABS in a printer that isn't enclosed. It's also quite fast, and I frequently turn up the feed rate on it to 120-140% I find that I do need to turn the temp up a bit on PLA to avoid under extrusion when doing large layers. But I'm printing tables and helmets on the thing and it's been perfect thus far. I'm coming from a CR-10 so I find it a lot tidier and better built than that.
I am concerned about the wiring under the heated bed and how it will hold up over time, but it's no worse than how the CR10 managed it (I had printed the guard that supports the bed wires for the cr10 not to mention I had to print legs for the CR10s control box just so the z-axis wire could reach the top of the printer on tall prints). I'm probably 300 hours of printing into ownership of this printer and I've not seen any undue wear under the machine from the bed wires.
I'm curious Thomas, what printer you'd suggest that has a volume similar to this?
TL;DR: I have a heavily modified version of this printer and it works fine, what's your problem!?
@@WalkerRileyMC lightly modified, and no beta software.
How do you own this machine and not print an extremely large Benchy?
it would probably kill him or burn his house down before he could
@@willmoran5694 beat me to it. Using this while knowing all these flaws is suicide.
Although it gives you good plausible deniability in a homicide.
"Here, borrow my printer for awhile and tell me what you think"
@@spamcan9208 hmmmmm
I agree with you on about everything except the belt tensionning system for the Y axis I like seeing a manufacturer include a tensionning system and a belt aligment system. Especially soo if the belt motor and tensionner are not on a the same Aluminium profile . It allows tracking adjustment of the belt. Only problem I would see is this adjustment vibrating loose since i didn't see any way of locking it. While it could have been made better I don't see it being a major issue.
I like that you didn't put an affiliate link, some people would be like 'It could easily electrocute you, and if you try to run it at stated temperatures it'll melt down and release neurotoxins, click the buy link in my description to help support the channel'
Well, well, well. Talk about serendipity, Thomas. I was just about to order one of these. Thanks for the awesome video and warning.
Thankyou for your honest review. They had the raptor 2.0+ on offer on 3d prima but I’ll think I give it a miss…
I have an Anycubic Chiron.. Also 400x400, but only 450mm height.
It has it's own set of issues, but easily tweaked, tuned and upgraded, and only about half the cost of this machine with decent support from Anycubic. And... I only need 1 plug. :)
To clarify for those wondering, you're correct that this machine requires CE or other electrical safety certification (UL, CSA). This is the case because there is wiring, connections, and devices working at mains voltage.
Most 3d printers do NOT need this certification, provided the power supply used in the printer does have the appropriate certification, and that power supply reduces the voltage below about 60v (may vary by region).
This machine requires this certification for the high voltage heated bed, because the regulators want to prevent.... This....
Perhaps the bed has UL listing itself so that's why they opted for having a second power cable, thinking it doesn't apply, but my non-lawyer opinion is that since they have connections for the solid state relay and not a straight cable from the wall to the bed that wouldn't fly.
Greta..i just got the troodon. It has some quirks but is printing ok so far. Might make a review of it myself. Thank you for your honest review.
It seems like a fun printer to tinker with. It’s got some pretty decent base components
Thank you for calling them out. Some youtubers will make excuses for the manufacturers and say they will probably fix it. We don't need another printer that catches fire and ruin the whole 3dprinter industry by giving 3dprinters a reputation for being unsafe. It will turn people off, it will turn parents off from getting one for thier kids, Institutions will get turned off in having 3dprinters. .
You'll find that wierd red/orange wire may only be a single ground connector in shielding. I've see that before on silicon heated beds.
I got a CR-10 S5 a few yeárs ago, for about the same price, and it's much crappier than this one, but the only thing Creality got right was that they put in a beefy NEMA stepper for the Y axis.
I was left with replacing the warped bed with a cast aluminium pláte magnetic buildplateánd silicone heater, replácing the hotend with a Mosquito Magnum, replacing the melzi board with a Duet WiFi board, installing linear rails. Now I'm looking at getting a Flex3Drive or Zesty Nimble extruder
I spent more on parts than I payed for the CR-10 S5
2 years ago I bought a Raptor 1 on the advice of a vendor. It's been nothing but trouble, and many of the problems I've had are mentioned in this video: shifted layers, bad crimp, melted connector. Can't print the entire 400x400 bed area because the heater is only in the central 200x200. This was a $900 mistake. Now it's a doorstop.
I'm liking the second camera man. I just wish the motions were smoother, kinda jarring with the abrupt zooms and jerky panning.
Really makes me appreciate the quality of my Creality machine.
i bought a new cr10 dual axis clone right before xmas it was 1/3 the price as a new cr10 da... i hated it t first because it was poorly made and i was a new bee...but after a couple of weeks i got it up to making high quality prints with no problems and now i love it...like 170 total into it... and i feel i really know 3d printers very well now...both this machine and my ender 5 had every issue you can think of... but now they are golden and real work horses...
Well, great share. I realized my notification got changed by YT - glad to be back in the chain, again.
Appreciate the honest review. Some other RUclipsrs would have simply done a "Introducing the BEST NEW 3D printer! Click on link below to purchase" video and overlooked the flaws. In fact, I am willing to bet lots more of these are going to get sent out to review, with perhaps more strict guidelines imposed by the manufacturer.
Hi Thomas! Love your videos! I'd love to see a 2nd video reconditioning that printer to something else! :)
Good and honest review - good stuff Tom and all of your observations are very valid!
That printer seems like a pain.....Anyways..... When I built my clone Prusa MK2 I chose to use a silicone heater from Keenovo that has its be own controller that I plug in separately. I actually like it a lot better at times than just using the one powered and controlled through the printer itself. It's not ideal for all situations but it has its pros. For one it heats up a lot faster and can be adjusted on the fly with a quick push of a button. I can get a lot higher temps with it as well. Only down side would be the extra steps to turn it on and of. It wont turn off after the print ends, at least not in the current for I have it setup to. So you can't let the print run and walk away to have it turn off after the print ends without you around. But really you shouldn't leave your print unattended anyways, even though I bet we all do it.🥴
Anyways I don't regret one bit going that route. I'd do it again if I had the chance, and I just might for the CoreXY I'm building.
Edit: Oh before I forget. My Keenovo silicone heater came with a grounding wire. I remember you mentioned in the video that, that one didn't. That's not good. For anyone that gets one make sure to get one with proper grounding.😉
Yeah man. Hats off toy you for your honesty.
First video I've seen from you and I am glad you're honest unlike some of the paid critics out there. Very good video, helpful and comfy to listen to
Great video, Tom. Very informative. Keep up the good work.
One slight suggestion: Have your videographer turn off auto-focus and have him (her?) use manual focus. When watching the close-ups, going in and out of focus starts giving us headaches.
Sounds like a 3D printer I would build. But then, I don't even HAVE a 3D printer yet. I'm watching RUclips videos before I get one.
They should have hired a consultant with experience before building the thing. But perhaps they did, and hired the wrong one. And the factory managers did not know enough to be able to tell that he was incompetent.
They DO have a great marketing department though. They have managed to get many other companies to rebrand and sell it. Pity the product is so bad. But this is a very valuable review.
TOM, SORRY FOR CAPS, BUT PLEASE ... WHATS THE PROPER AND SAFE WAY TO PUT WIRES IN DRAG-CHAINS ?
REBUILD IT :) would be fun to see.
I like your conclusion in which you rightly point out that any MANUFACTURER willing to sell garbage like that is not to be trusted. It seems that the games industry's practice of soft releases where the customers pay to be beta testers has spilled over to the 3D printer industry. :-(