Dark secrets of German museums | DW Documentary
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- For centuries, Europeans lusted after exotic treasures from all over the world. Millions of objects were stored away by German museums during the colonial era. That’s left a cultural vacuum in former colonial countries.
Today, the restitution of these objects to their cultures of origin does happen - but it is the exception, rather than the rule. According to Bénédicte Savoy, a critic of Berlin's Humboldt Forum museum, most institutions are still stone-walling. "Their greatest fear is arousing desire. They don’t want to give things back. So they keep quiet."
Sealed off from the public, artifacts stored by German museums are often treated with neglect. Berlin's new Humboldt Forum won’t change that. There, some 10,000 artifacts are planned for public display. But the entire collection is one million objects strong. This means that the vast majority of artifacts continue to be stored in a facility in the suburb of Dahlem, which suffers from flooding, dampness, and infestations of vermin.
Indeed, many museums do not even know how many cultural artifacts they possess. Munich's Fünf Kontinente Museum has records of just 57,000 of its estimated 160,000 pieces, while Hamburg's MARKK, formerly the Museum of Ethnology, has no idea which objects are in which boxes following roof damage and the disposal of asbestos.
The Netherlands and France have undertaken the complete digitization of global artifacts. But in Germany, budget and staff shortages are standing in the way. When will indigenous communities be able to finally look at their own cultural relics held in Germany? And how well equipped are ethnological museums to make such heritage available to the cultures that created it?
The documentary takes a critical look at the situation, making it clear that the problems are not the fault of often extremely-dedicated museum staff. There are structural problems, and solving them will require increased resources, research, and transparency.
#documentary #museums #Germany #dwdocumentary
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I have to give credit to DW and by extension to Germany as very few countries in the west would openly talk about this subject. Can you imagine a world where there was only a few Gutenberg bibles left and Germany, where it was printed, didn't even possess one? Can you imagine Germans having to travel to Tonga to see a German historical innovation that revolutionised the world??? Well many countries have their single copy manuscripts in British and American museums instead of being at home. It is utterly shameful and needs to be rectified.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts on the topic!
@@DWDocumentary Yes, being willing to look inward and reflect the dark corners of it's own history is what really sets apart Germany and the rest of the Western countries, especially the U.K. Thank you DW!!
British museum looks nervously for the dislike button....
But where is the button?
That Sa v oy. Women looks straight-up MEXICAN😂🎉!
The dark secrets of ALL major museums in the world.
Also very weird that the issue is delapidation, not stealing.
That part stealing! ( All Love from oakland California)
Every time that I see that kind of BS I remember Taliban exploding statues of Buddha at Afghanistan or ISIS shooting the hell out the temple of Baalshamin or the city of Hatra. Imagine all these african artifacts in countries like Congo, Ghana and others with endless conflicts.
The issue is stealing!!!! We know Captain Cook and those two Germans did not pay for these treasures. They took them by force, illegal or immoral means, so stealing is the chief issue Sir!!!
That's not always the case though. The majority of artifacts in all museums were purchased or gifts. Even the last few minutes of the documentary discusses this.
Louvre and British Museum: finally a worthy opponent. Our battle for the return of artifacts would be legendary difficult.
We're still looking at them 🇬🇧
Probably wanting to store more
@@kkman7394 sounds good to me👍
This is interesting because a lot of European countries say that they refuse to give artifacts back to communities as they feel those communities would not take care of the objects as well as they would, but this proves that that is subterfuge.
Yet the communities were obviously taking good enough care of them for them to be available for the taking.
they are only copies of the originals...
Wow. It’s one thing to steal millions of precious objects from their native homes, but to let them rot in storage is a serious failure. Astonishing that a wealthy Western nation like Germany would let this happen.
Do not be amazed at that and do not believe that it's only Germany where something like this would happen. This could be any country, they all have their big big issues and secrets in one way or the other
"Traded... stollen... leeched out...".
Since when is trade the same thing as theft??????????????????
It is crazy to see these priceless artifacts rotting away in a basement. I wonder how many museums around the world suffer from these problems.
All of them
And keep history away from us...
Museums do not have the space or equipment to display every artefact. The cost of storage alone prevents most museums from acquiring equipment and staff to maintain the 1,000's of artefacts. Having worked as a volunteer at a local museum helping to catalogue pieces, it's overwhelming. People don't donate time or funds needed to do the work, People do not attend museums as one hopes, so there is little or no interest. Seeking funds from local authorities is daunting, especially in the face of deteriorating economics and the upheaval of societal concerns.
An example: A single article of clothing, needs to be cleaned (by a time consuming, expensive and delicate process), then it has to be kept in specialized containers , which are expensive and makes them difficult to acquire and finally stored in climate controlled storage facilities or display case, again that equipment is very expensive. To save this single piece can cost several thousand dollars. Multiply that by the 10's of thousands of artefacts most museums have. With minimal funds, almost no personnel and apathy by the public, these artefacts will eventually disintegrate into dust.
They are not priceless.
@@itkapatanka No, not when they've been basically mass produced and given away as gifts.
It would be so much easier if museums just dropped the pretense of "acquired objects" and referred to them as "phat loot"
Serious note, here is my opinion: If source country A) Wants it back and B) is politically stable and economically well off enough for a proper museum to house it without the reasonable fear of some gangster or fundamentalist destroying it, then there is no decent moral justification for withholding it other than "to the victor goes the spoils"... Which, admittedly, is a pretty compelling argument in a fundamentally amoral world.
I completely agree.
However, where does it end? The reality is much more complex than that. For example, Egypt claims the Rosetta stone, which is in a British museum. The thing is, modern day Egyptians are not related to those who made the Rosetta stone, as it was made by Greek settlers who ruled over Egypt during a period called the Ptolemaic dynasty. Thus, why should modern day Egyptians, who mostly descend from Arab settlers who moved to Egypt relatively recently, be allowed to claim what is actually a Greek artifact?
@@PG-3462 The Rosetta Stone wasn't stolen.
@@joeb134 I'm not exactly sure to understand how that's related to what I just said, and I'm not sure to understand how you think it ended up in a British musuem if it wasn't stolen at some point. Egypt wouldn't be claiming it back if Egypt itself gave it to the British museum
@@joeb134 I can give you another example to illustrate my point. For example, Istanbul in Turkey was first a Greek city, and the Ottoman empire colonized tons of other countries, including Egypt. Thus, Turkey's museums are also full of ancient Greek and Egyptian artifacts. But for real, who own those artifacts? Turkey invaded those regions so long ago that the artifacts in its museums belong... to Turkey's museums. Would you want Turkey to give back the entire city of Istanbul to Greece? And could Greece claim Alexandria in Egypt? After all, it was built by Alexander the Great (and still has his name)
why do i feel so much heart ace watching this? .. "Colonial" Europe stripped the world of culture & profited every step of the way.
It is called white guilt. As many others you subconsciously fetishised it.
Bring Nefertiti back to Egypt please
Not only Egypt. They robbed half of Poland and never returned keeping them now in their own museums.
what stops them from requesting it back? not trying to be condescending, im just genuinely curious.
Start by 3-Digitzing ALL objects and then vacuum seal them regardless. This alone, will preserve them near indefinitely.
“Preserving” cultural artifacts from the same cultures you pillaged and destroyed for centuries makes me understand exactly what sort of peoples you are..…Blatantly jealous of what you haven’t been blessed with…
Is this a "white people don't have culture" comment?😆
@@hope1575 you clearly don't have culture, trust me, but it's more than that, i think it's easier for people of color to see that
Did you even listen? Many of the Tonga pieces were gifts and the Tonga people dont want them back because that would be a violation of the trust in which the gift was given.
None of those objects would exist today if they had stayed in Tonga.
The artifacts could and would have survived with the original people’s because they would have a better connection to their past and would keep Making them because they would have an understanding of these artifacts better than these Eurocentric people who came and took things
Very few museums from Moscow to California are without some questions regarding provenance of some of their ethno collections.
This is a problem in all of Europe. An Austrian museum has Moctezumas headdress that was originally stolen by the Spanish. It is the last existing aztec headdress and Austria refuses to give it back to Mexico.
Who cares
Exactly. Austria has so far refuse to give it back to Mexico.
@@annoncesmessages6713 Some people obviously care. It is a part of their history and culture.
That's just awful! 😭
@@annoncesmessages6713 The Mexican people???? It is a really important cultural relic...
Serious question.
How is it possible these pieces of history sat deteriorating for so long when they were amongst numerous people?
These people would have surely cared since it’s their specialist field. What have they been doing all this time, doesn’t seem to make sense no one really spoke up earlier?
I have a really hard time believing the people of the stolen artifacts' home country were willing to accept German made replicas rather than get the artifacts back that were actually touched by their ancestors...It makes 0 sense to me.
It is likely that Tonga lacks the facilities or expertise to restore and curate artifacts, it is a very involved process and it is expensive. Also, they explained at 21:00 the Tonga indicated they were royal gifts and could not be taken back.
If you paid attention the reason was explained, the objects were NOT stolen but given as gifts. To return the items would be an insult.
@@flightographist It is also likely that if they don't have the necessary facilities or ability to care for/restore their items that it is theirs to squander. It's more insulting for another country to squander it for them.
@@LaRhondaTurner It appears you missed the part where the elders visiting the collection to help interpret the items indicated they were royal gifts and it was not permissible in their culture to take them back- but hey, your opinion is more important than their culture right?
@@oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164 While that explanation might explain the non-return of certain items with certain types of designs, it doesn't explain for hundreds of thousands of other items that were taken by force according to the Foster's diaries at 19:45. One of the people even said that some museums were not displaying everything so it wouldn't lead to covetousness or island people wanting their artifacts back. You can't tell me these islanders would rather their stuff sit in a basement and be eaten by bugs and trampled by rats than have it back on their own island for their people to look at, learn from and enjoy as long as they can. At least if its destroyed/unpreserved, it would be done by their own hands.
Britain needs to return it's colonial thieving, no ifs and buts nor excuses.
The Americans created Liberia to help achieve this exact goal. Unfortunately they were not successful
@@basictrainer
Yes, a very strange created country. No idea what it's like these days, but they have had their 'moments', I know.
@@basictrainer UK created the US
Please Germany return the artifacts you have robbed from POLAND in during the WWII ❗❗❗
IT'S A SHAME FOR YOU ❗❗❗
They did, why not talk about how much of what the Germans took is still locked in Russia from when the ussr took it? along with huge amounts of German property? Also, consider that every culture has stolen from another, every culture, it doesn't make it right but also consider that the Europeans are the first to even consider giving them back, its not fair, its not justice, its not enough; but its a start, and from small acorns mighty oaks grow.
It's a bit of a tricky issue. Colonialism casts a long shadow, it's true, but did you see what happened in Syria? Egypt? Their population overran their museums and took it upon themselves to destroy their collections of ancient, priceless artifacts. They're making a lot of noise over mold in these museums, but in your heart of hearts, what would have happened to these artifacts had they not been collected / pillaged?
Most of the Nazi war loot has been forcibly (and justly) returned. What remains has largely vanished into the dark underworld of private collections, so.... Good luck.
PleasePoland return the 27% of pre war Germany you stole in 1945 Shame on you !!!!
@@johnsmith-mq4eq 😂😂 Please Germany pay back 1 billion dollars for destroying all the country and pay back for murdering 6 million people in total with your lovely friends from Russia.
I’m amazed the artifacts survived WW II, either due to bombing or looting by Goering and his ilk or Soviet rampaging.
Some stuff was destroyed, unfortunately. These one of the few spinosaurus fossils in the freakin world.
The Soviet Union wasn't quite as big on deliberately destroying cultural heritage as, say, Cultural Revolution china was. They sold off most of the Tsar's art collection, and when ancient undesciphered Mayan texts previously held by Berlin fell into their hands, they actually played a big unsung role in helping decipher the enigmatic script.
Most of Goering's collection was seized and returned to its rightful/"rightful" owners.
Dont forget in 1945 the Americans stole all Goerings private property including the many items he purchased at fair prices before the war . Germany was looted liked no other country in 1945/6 buy all 4 allied powers. From the lowest ranks to the high ranks.
Yes, Soviet troops were very brutal on occupied territories after WW2. Germans, Austrians, Hungarians know it so good. But Americans, British and, especially, French were very cruel too.
@@camilla_k97 any proof or just your opinion based on the mass-media? and on the contrary any idea on the brutality of the Germans, Austrians, Hungarians during the 4 years beforehand?
@@Natalia-ix9rw It's a fact. It was hidden for too long, but now we have more and more open information. And atrocities of Axis powers before don't matter here. For example, Hungarian civil population wasn't involved in this.
So glad to see the return of artefacts or its replicas to my neighbor island of Tonga. Malo e lelei!
Did the Tonga people eat human flesh before the Europeans came to their island?
Return all the items to their native countries and communities. Do it quietly if you must. Just do it already and hopefully the other European museums and collections will follow in your steps. Enough already.
Shame on Germany! This is someone's heritage, culture, history, ancestors. If you have respect for your own culture, how come you don't see and show the same respect to other cultures? Isn't it obvious, they should return ORIGINALS back to where they belong?
Just like America and the UK, Germany doesn't have any respect for its culture. That's why they are aggressively importing non-Germans, to replace the indigenous white people that live there and their pesky culture/values.
@@ronfroehlich4697 maybe because they know something you don't. What exactly are indigenous white people? According to Benjamin Franklin in the 1700s the people in Germany weren't even considered white. Actually, many European countries were inhabited by people not considered white by the people who started applying the term to describe people.
Shame on you for creating a celebration and speech to return replicas. Germany and any other countries that stole items in the name of reserving them should be reprimanded.
Nice video & excellent journal coverage of this enlightening issue belongs to antiques, elder foreigners civilizations tools & instruments. Remains in Germany more preservatives than returning to their classic lands .thanks for sharing excellent documentary (DW)channel..
Thanks a lot for watching and for your positive feedback. We’re glad you liked the documentary!
@@DWDocumentary welcome with pleasure at any times..thanks
Why not give back the original items, and have the replicas in foreign museums?
Ohh myyyy.... almost all stolen artifacts in the first half of this documentary are from my homeland, and it makes sense because we were colonialised by the Germans
If you don't actively show it right now, open to the public, you have to put it on a list from which countries can have it returned. Self pickup.
This is a case of bad actions having good consequences.
Everyone agrees that the method of 0batinaing these items was bad.
However, the fact they have been kept in a cold climate has preserved them. The collections from tropical regions in particular, through no fault of their own and due to the climate these artifacts can simply not survive 200+ years in a tropical environment.
Hopefully both parties involved will come to an amicable solution. But let us not forget, that is these items had not been traded/pilfered/stolen in the first place the likelihood is that 99% of them would have been destroyed by the tropical environment.
How funny...
So many of these objects are gorgeous- I can understand why the original plunderers took them from an artistic standpoint. No fear of repercussions and feelings of superiority just sealed the deal for the takers. Something else to consider though… how many of these items were actual legitimate gifts or legitimately purchased ? And could that even be provable?
Most of those were curious.
Nobody really knows how they were aquired. They may have been taken from a rubbish tip. They may have been purchased. They may have been otems that nobody had any use for. They may have been stolen. They may have been gifts. Nobody knows.
They preserved them
Exactly.
In their native countries, these object would be in Museums; in the West, they are in "Ethnological" Museum; that speak volumes.
British museums, all museums for that matter should return objects to their country of origin. It's not right to have someone's ancestry on a shelf in a storeroom or on display.
so much of awakening , so much of regrets & so much of reversal
Museums preserve the past. Nothing should be off limits.
I don't know why it never occurred to me, but one of the Native peoples I am descended from, the Saponi, have pretty much no surviving culture. I wonder if any artifacts of ours still exist in museums, not just in the US, but in Europe?
Give those Artifacts Back to the Rightful owners. Y'all STOLE them from their original home Land! ( Love from oakland California)
This was hard to watch, being Tongan myself and seeing that some of our artefacts have withered away while in a place away from home. I wish they would be returned to Tonga and the other respective islands. We would love the chance to have them with the descendants of the ancestors who made those artefacts.
Well done, as usual!!
@1:10 they ask "what do the conditions mean in a post colonial world" nevermind Germany gave their full support to Israel while they committed their latest war crimes against Palestine and Palestinians..
Hmm a very difficult problem. Who should they give the objects back to? Many of the tribes of the lands don't exist anymore, because of colonization too... :'(
Its never black and white, many of the items may never have survived if they hadn't been taken, and if they were sold it becomes a whole mess, its like the Elgin marbles/Parthenon statues in the British museum; culturally and morally they should be in Greece, but had they not come to Britain they would have been destroyed completely either in the Greek wars with the Turks (the Turks once occupied the Parthenon and were braking it apart to get at the lead joints in the stone for bullets, so the Greeks who were fighting them GAVE them bullets to save the structure)or in ww2, they were also bought, but from the Turks not the Greeks though the Turks ruled Greece at the time, so is the sale valid? did they have the right to sell? you can't apply modern morals to the past, just like you can't make laws retrospective, all you can do it try and do the right thing now.
@@jhfdhgvnbjm75 The Turks preserved the Parthenon. yes, a minaret was added and it was defended against the venetian danger. The Venetians bombed, not the Turks.
To the country of origin?
umm the vast majority of them died of disease they had no immunity to
@@ecstasy5022wow they are the source of human , they do have immunity , they are not the one whose dying of flu, we all were expecting to see that it might be a catastrophe in Africa , NOPE ! They are breathing. While we in Europe are straggling to breath .Technology and modern society and intellectual didn’t save you all . And you , you think you know about immune , you just let the world to know how empty head you have .
This is soo sad!! Thank you for shining a light on this!!
The fable of the dog in a manger totally applies here.
Isn't being systematic and exacting a stereotype of German society and institutions??
Perhaps the neglect is more deliberate than this piece discloses
It is a form of psychological warfare to disconnect peoples from their own identity, so it cannot be used as a source of power and self awareness. Before you can colonize a land you must first colonize the minds of the people who live there.
2:36 time slot...They are presenting "replicas", not the originals taken therefore, the artifacts has not been returned.
i love how you didn't even watch the piece before commenting. At the end it's revealed that those objects were royal gifts to the expedition, and that from a Tongan perspective, they couldn't be returned. It's at 20:26
Maybe stick to making soap instead of trying to comment on something you havent even finished watching
@@mailio4536 I saw it... I stand by my statement. If they weren't taken in the first place they would not needed to make replicas. I heard what he said. He didn't say it was a gift to the expeditioners. He said they were given as royal gifts...as in giving them to royalty and therefore couldn't be returned because they were given ceremoniously. They were not given to the expeditioners.
@@rehobothsoapcompany7355 in no way is that implied. A royal gift can be to various people who arent royalty, nowhere did they say "it were a gift from one royalty to another" or anything similar to that.
If it were a royal gift from one Tongan royalty to another Tongan royalty. Then Tonga, as the successor nationstate would be fully within their right to claim it back. But that's not the case here at all, you're just doing backflips with your mental gymnastics
@@mailio4536 You may be right... But claiming it back and getting it back is two different things.
@@rehobothsoapcompany7355 They literally said they didn't want it back + got exact replicas. There are 10000's of items that have real arguments for a return, but those aren't one of them.
"these properly acquired items are problematic because they arent at the givers house anymore" isn't an argument
I'm curious what the conditions of these artifacts would be if they hadn't been taken - stolen - traded - gifted in the first place. Would they even exist and in what numbers.
It seems it would have been a good addition to the documentary to explore those questions.
I do love that across the western world that many are finding ways to return, even if not the actual items, the old culture one way or another. It does good toward societal healing and continued health
Typical condescending white savior comment.
@@Snowy265 awww.... what a sweet little thing you are. Scoot along now, honey. You've showed your ass while projecting what you want. Your noble work is done
Different times, different laws! These objects were conquered under the terms of that time. What do you think the conquered tribes would do to the weaker tribes?
Are you serious?!! These things still belong to other nations and these countries that stole it in the past are still thieves at the present.
@@miram143
The fact is that both of these statements are simultaneously. That is the delightful paradox of these sort of moral parlor game. Otherwise it would be boring :)
@@miram143 Nobody owns anything.
@@adoe2305 this is the thieves logic to justify their crimes.
Great vid, thanks.
Nice presentation.
Omgoodness there too beautiful to be sitting there hope one day soon they will find a way to send them all back to the islands ❤
£44 trillion was stolen from India in a span of 200 years plus all the treasures from different Kingdoms! ❤🤦🏻♂️
Where did you get that figure from?
@@johnsmith-mq4eq up urs.theres where u'd love to say.go find out.
It was legal back then so its not a theft
@@Cortesevasive legal? to be robbed?
@@jakowako7157 The right of conquest ? Trial by combat ? etc ?
Collection or loot? Giving back a copy is a disgrace, don’t taking care of the objects is outrageous
You did not pay attention, the gifts in question could not be returned, according to the prevalent culture; 20:49
To be ceremonially offered replicas of artefacts created by own people! Let that sink in!
Europeans mainly claim they are the fore front of Earth's high culture and civilization but their past global colonisation policy might prove other wise.
nah taking over the world kinda just proves the point that our culture is strong
Definitely wouldn't see the Hope Diamond kept in poor conditions like that huh.
Return artifacts now
Don't worry Germany, whatever you have done, Britain did worse. I know this because I'm from India and know what are in the London Museums.
Yes we (or rather ancestors from the same cultural group, my ancestors were only in India in the 40's fighting to keep the Japanese out who I can guarantee would have been much worse) did terrible things, every culture has, they've all stolen, all enslaved, even India or its precursors, but also consider that Britain, France, Germany are all starting to give things back, its not much and its still early days but in human history that is unheard off. We can bear grudges and fight the old battles of the past forever and ever and ever and get nowhere, or we can move on, accept we are born from the past but not off the past, I certainly hope many of the treasures squiraled away get returned to where they belong, but also that people stop fighting the past and accept people and countries for who they are now.
Well done! Thank you.
Thank you for your comment!
@@DWDocumentary
You are welcome, dear one.
Merry Christmas and happy New Year.
The even darker secrets of North American and Europen museums is the number of skeletons, especially skulls, which were collected and reside in museum basements.
06:40 - Bluddy hell, criminal negligence!
You put fir plant in the rooms for air and good ventilation clove works for mites. Then spray the outside with peppermint oil gets rid of spiders and deter them. They have a surfacide cleaner UV-C LIGHT
More Capitalist Hoarding.💔💔💔💔💔
Still a million times better than socialism hoarding ❤❤❤❤
What sorrow and yet HOW TREMENDOUSLY EXCITING! I certainly hope the global community OVERWHELMS these museums with money but even more importantly, an eagerness and will to house these irreplaceably magnificent treasures as beautifully as France is doing.
I want them to give them back to the cultures they were stolen from. Sorry but France is notorious for stealing sacred objects from the Native American community.
This is soo hard to watch, I'm crying for our artefacts!! I'm crying for my history!!
Knowing the Germans, they will now clean and tidy, inventorize and preserve everything properly.
They should be 3D imaging all these objects, not just photographing them. Hopefully they all get the care they deserve. It's also good to see at the end that many artifacts were indeed gifts or were legally purchased, not wrongfully pillaged, although we have to assume some portions in all museums were. It's good to see some countries being accountable for that and either returning a certain portion and or gifting back replicas to museums of origin.
Cook was murdered for trying to capture a Hawaiian 💀
32 Positions and 42 Freelanced specialists to archive 275.000 Items over 5 years... Quick Math tells me that this means every staff member on average archived about 5 Items per DAY.... That sounds to me line they are heavily understaffed and probably would need another 500 ethnologists to handle that enormous task.
What waste of money
Well its public sector, sure nobody is exerting themselves.
Ironic that a commercial for a museum appears when I clicked on this...
The fact that you made this documentary proves how screwed up present day Germany is. I wish Germany will finally wake up to be independent rather to sleep under the influence of others.
I don't think they can while countries such as the US are preventing them from flourishing. Like !S!S and the taliban is totally the US' fault but Germany and other EU countries have the burden of taking in refugees.
🤦♂️- they obviously care about them, look how they’re letting people handle these artifacts. No gloves. Hard floor. On a plinth. That one guy picked up that mini table thing with one hand so casually.
Interesting to compare the sub-standard storage conditions of these artifacts with those of Otzi and the Dead Sea scrolls.
Better this then being looted and sold on the black market. Look at Egypt and how much has been lost to private collections.
They are the same, an "atrocity"... 👀
Did you know that dozens of mummies were sent from Egypt to Victorian London just to be unwrapped and turned into paint? Mummy red, they called it.
I'm all for holding onto artifacts in the name of preservation when their area of origin is too unstable/poor/etc. to care for it properly... but let's not get *too* comfy on our high horse.
@@balargus319 do you really think they acquired every single artifacts that was to be found in the respective country? Europeans valued those artifacts more so then the people who made them and thus kept them. Yes some were acquired violently however warfare, plundering, slavery, colonialism and genocide were nothing new to any society on the planet.
@@alexanderricky3811 do you really think everyone else aside from the Europeans were living peacefully?
Why did European colonizers want the art, the people there were considered "sub-human savages." Turns out they were more creative than boring realistic cookie cutter church craft, not really art. Picasso thought so by imitating African indigenous art, not even mentioning the source of his inspiration. He only said: : "good artists imitate, great artists steal." Now we know why.
The Romans also "acquired objects" as did the Chinese. This isn't a europe thing. This is a power thing. People love to display their power by displaying other people's shit.
Also, one could make the legitimate argument that sometimes it truly is in the artifacts best interest to be extricated from its source if the source is unstable... but that's a recent moral twist that elevates the matter of stea er acquiring objects to a higher cause.
We wuz Picasso n sheeeit
Picasso didnt copy mudhut art lmfao
go study art history :)
Bs they named the museum after the thieves that neglected and ruined the treasures.
Love from Nepal 🇳🇵
Just return all items to origin countries if you have no interest in taking care of them.
Not saying they shouldn’t be returned, they should! But to say they were all stolen is a bit disingenuous. Many many of these artifacts were in fact sold or given licences to be exported from the countries of origin by their respective governments at the time. Back when many of these artifacts were collected many countries administrations were complicit in allowing them to be sold off.
I’m not saying this was the case a lot of the time, but I think it should be mentioned as it is the factual history of how many of these objects made their way to museums around the world. What also must be mentioned is many of these governments were both independent countries and colonies. The colonies make for a big conflict of interest in the sale. I also think we must also not judge the past actions by the morality of today. That would be disingenuous as well. Allowing these priceless artifacts to rot is absolutely inexcusable! If we these museums are to return these artifacts they must be returned to a museum in their respective countries that have the funding and facilities to keep these objects safe, along with emergency exit plans in case of conflict! The loss of priceless objects in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan was so heart breaking, and I was conflicted at that point knowing that many objects were safe in the British museum away from the destruction they would have inevitably been subjected to if they were not safe their… This is a complicated situation and I think we must be very very careful in how we decide to proceed! This is also the fault of governments cutting funding to our museums and our governments should be held accountable to for the destruction of these priceless objects!!!!
I’m interested in what commenters think, and I’m open to having my off the cuff opinions to be challenged and corrected.
So what do you all think?
I think the governments with these collections should be held financially responsible for the destruction of these collections due to poor funding! They should be forced to provide emergency funding to restore ALL objects that were damaged by their funding shortfalls! Governments should be held legally responsible and sued for the damages and the cost to restore and properly house these objects and then move to safely repatriate objects that should be repatriated!
I’m so glad they brought in then descendants of these objects to provide much needed cultural context, maybe this will be the first step to them being returned!
Most of them are stolen, so stop twisting truth, it is disgusting!!!!
@@miram143 I never said they weren’t can you read? Or are you blind? It’s just disingenuous to not give the context as to how they were acquired. In Egypt the government there provided export licences for huuuuge numbers of artifacts. Not giving accurate historical comments and saying they were all violently stolen is just completely false! I even said it still wasn’t right and many times the governments were installed by the western occupying or coercive governments. I’m just calling for accurate history and not giving a blanket “they were all stolen” response! Many were traded for goods as well, also In the past they were not valued like they are now. That doesn’t make it right but we must still portray history as it was and not with a modern biased view as you clearly have. Many were violently confiscated especially from places like the pacific islands but giving a blanket uneducated simplistic and emotional response is just ignorant. And I know you know that if you have studied the subject at all. Your comment is just plain ignorant. Saying everything was stolen is just false! I never said that it was morally right from our modern perspective! Grow up and maybe don’t skew my words and make such an ignorant comment…
I don't think these artifacts would have survived at all if they had stayed in the countries of origin, they would not have been considered valuable and therefore would not have been preserved
They aren’t even giving them back the real stuff they stole/took. They are giving them replica’s. Well isn’t that rich.
not only in museums but in BIG families too like MALRAUX ( pilleur ANKGOR )
none of this would have survived without europeans everything would be lost to history.
What doesn't glitter they don't treat as gold. The problem with tonga is that they took the objects when tonga people had use for them- they are returning it when neither Europeans nor tonga people has any use for them
Hey, @DW Documentary. Where did your video about Indigenous people of canada ("Robbed of Culture") go? I was going to watch it and now it says the video cannot be found.
If they are stolen they can get sued,fined, and charged. For making profit. Including the workers right now. That is not right.
They can't take care of it but still refuse to return them too
The bust of Nefertiti still has not been returned to Egypt who have very sophisticated and advanced techniques to preserve the relics of their ancestors royal and common
If a neighboring tribe attacked and conquered another nearby tribe and took all their belongings, who owns what? In today's politically correct society, there is a trending moral rule that you should return what you took, after keeping it for 100 or so years...
I hope they return the art they are able too. If they can't take care of it then give them back to their original countries who can hopefully care for it better instead.
Moral compasses were askew in past times - no doubt Omaha native people sold them to buy food to stay alive? Got to look into the context of the time.
Anyone visited the Horniman Museum, anthropology, in Forest Hill, South London? I well recommend it
Who are you to speak of morality? O.o
So, now when you cant take care of these stolen artifact, you planned to give it back? Funny 😂
The museums should have the reproductions and all the artifacts should be returned to they rightful countries at cost to the museums. If my local museums managed to fill themselves mainly with local artifacts the big museums could do the same
Uh…what’s the point of all museums only featuring local exhibitions? How dull.
@@h0rriphic they can borrow from the rightful owners and create exhibits.....museums do this ALL OF THE TIME. Return these objects back to their rightful owners.
It's a Crime and a Shame !
People always whine about this, but the truth is that many cultures use ceremonial artifacts for maybe a generation or for a few years and then they dispose of them. By keeping them in these museums it keeps them alive and to be passed down for generations. Not to mention that with all the different tribal conflicts and all the different conflicts these Third World countries have had, they would have been destroyed.
Our history held in the hands of foreigners. Tonga was never colonised but trading our beliefs for Christianity is just as bad. I can connect with a lot of the Christian philosophy but I can’t on a Genealogical level because it ain’t my heritage.
You may happily dump Christianity. It makes no sense to believe in non existent figures and fables that were edited again and again over centuries. Watch Richard Carrier's talks on YT.
GOOD JOB returning things though❣️👍🌏🌠🌠🌠
This concept would make a great last Indiana Jones movie.
Indy breaking in to the moldy rat infested German stockpiles of ancient relics of swindled goods just in the nick of time to save them from certain demise.
Safely returning them back to the lands from which they were pilferred.
With a hot woman by his side.
I'm trying to put a dollar tag on the cost of restoring and properly preserving all those objects in storage. Seems like an astronomical, waste of money. Downsize? Like money could be better spent I'm sure...
Can you even imagine how mad the Germans would be if some African countries/Pacific islands had hoards of their cultural treasures molding in their museum basements??? There'd be a war....
Cry me a river, they would have been long gone if they stayed where they were!
do u have a crystal ball? nothing but ignorant.
What influence such practices still persist. The abrahmic blind confidence is a menace.