I did the test on my guitar with 9-42 so I found that changing the outer springs angled vs straight didn't added or reduced tension BUT changed the FEEL of the whammy bar, so, changing the angle of springs won't make your guitar go out of tune if it's already set up properly, having the springs angled makes the whammy bar more precise, angled springs have increased LOAD not increased tension
I'm new to having a FR and am worried about screwing this up. So changing springs does not impact the bridge? It will remain flat and the guitar will stay in tune regardless of whether I remove a spring, change the angle, etc?
@@SpookyApparition No, I said that changing the angle of the outer springs doesn't increase tension, it increases load force, it makes the tremolo bar more precise, you can try it, just block the tremolo bar before removing springs
I angled the springs on my RG655's Edge trem recently. It's a great trem as it always returns to pitch and has the best flutters you could want. The problem was, it was too easy to send notes sharp when playing hard. I installed new springs and still it wasn't quite right, so I angled them and it did seem to make a difference.
Angeling two springs does not increase string tension as much as most might think. If the outer two are pulling more, the middle straight one has to pull less. So the increment is minuscule. 😉 But then again: spring tension and string tension are allways in perfect balance. This means, if the springs are pulling harder, the open strings are getting sharp. So you have to release the claw, wich results in balancing the spring/string tension to intonated open strings . 🤷🏻 In the end, angling two springs is like having two and a half springs working. Maybe good, if two springs are too soft, and three are not enough stretched to work properly. 🤔
Angling some springs will put the springs into different states of their stretch, effecting the rate at which your springs are trying to return to their set position, this is great for balancing the trem to return to pitch better than 3 or 4 applying the same force.
I have the angled setup on my rhoads. I found it to be a bit on the stiff side at first but I'm used to the tension now and it gives me more control when I'm doing things like Jeff Hanneman's whammy bar fills in the South of Heaven "chaos rampant..." parts. I was doing setup adjustments on my guitar yesterday when it was time to change strings and just as I had the float position and neck relief right I decided to tweak the string height as it was a little too high. The high E string broke near the tuning peg as I was tuning it up one final time and it was too late to pop out for new strings. So I left the guitar in the case and got new strings this morning (2 sets and an individual E to replace the broken one). What happened? The B string broke this time! So I threw away the whole set and put on one of the new ones I bought this morning. I had to adjust the screws to get the float right again because I think adjusting the bridge to tweak the string height changed the float position as well. Anyway, with all my tweaking and adjusting, I finally got the bridge to sit right, the guitar tuned up and haven't had to touch the intonation because the 12th fret harmonics are still the same as the fretted notes. I left the guitar in the case to rest overnight with the nut unlocked after stretching and playing in the strings. I'll give the tuning one last tweak in the morning, lock the nut and it should be good to go.
Quick question.. I have the \ | / right now on one of my dimebag guitars and I notice when I try dime squeals the Lower E strings goes more lower then my other strings and I pick up extra noise while I’m trying to do my thing so I get more noise. How do I fix that?
I think there is a lot of snake oil on the subject. Angles don’t add spring tension it adds spring load. The spring tension has to be equal to the string tension regardless of angled or straight. I think all it does is play around with the spring load meaning how far it is stretched. This is what effects the available travel and how much resistance to movement the whammy bar has. You always want enough spring load that you can pull up and not drop the springs out of the block or off the claw…. If you have the springs super loaded, the bar won’t want to dive easily or very far. I like 2 springs angled with a moderate spring load. It feels equal going up or down and works best for me
Thanks, now it makes sense and lines up with some old luthier advice to go to 2 angled or 3 straight ‘light’ springs if I want to use the bar close to the bend while rolling the volume.
It's one of the most meaningful topics that I have do more struggling than anything for the last 47 years, so I need all the info I can get my hands on, but for Floyd rose tremolo, extra light strings, what brand trem. springs would you prefere, Floyd rose, FM, others?
I found the setup that works on all my guitars is Fu-tone Titanium saddle blocks and screws with the biggest brass big blocks that pituitar guitar can take. I have that same set up on my original 1989 Kramer Nightswan, Kramer Dave Sabo guitar and my 1996 Hamer Californian. It was actually a huge difference on the Hamer as someone previously had 5 springs in it and played like crap. So 3 red Fu-tone springs solved that lol. All guitars use .011-.46 pure nickels strings and are tuned to E standard. All guitars flutter and stay in tune no matter hard you are on them. I actually highly recommend Fu-tone for any floating bridge, not just foe the improvement in tone, but the reliability is much better as well.
Yeah I had a fight setting up 10's on an RG560. 3 springs had the claw screwed all the way in = limited dive. 4 springs did the job but the hard won lesson... When adjusting the claw screws, only an 1/8 turn at a time.
I‘m not an advocate for angled springs. Reasons: 1. for slightly more tension just screw the claw deeper 2. angled springs will slightly rotate at their anchor points, while the trem gets used. This unnecessarily increases friction, wich prevents getting back in tune. 3. the above mentioned rotational friction is even higher on the angled springs, what makes it harder to set back in tune. 4. the springs will ring at two different pitches. Could clash with each other and the notes played on strings, causing a dead spot at a certain pitch where the note does decay rapidly. If you already have a dead spot, now you end up with two. The only nice effect you have with angled springs is the initial softer feel of the trem and it has more resistance the more you push/pull on the trem, because of the straight spring engaging later. But everybody can do what he likes… Cheers ✌🏼😊 Edit one year later: I just realized, that angling two springs does not increase string tension as much as you might think. If the outer two are pulling more, the middle straight one has to pull less. So the increment is divided by two. 😉 But then again: spring tension and string tension are allways (ideally) in perfect balance. This means, if the springs are pulling harder, the open strings are getting sharp. So you have to release the claw, wich results in balancing the spring/string tension to initial. 🤷🏻 In the end, angling two springs is like having two and a half springs working. Maybe good, if two springs are too soft, and three are not enough stretched to work properly. 🤔
Thanks, i have a few follow up questions. I got a Harley Benton Fusion III with FR1000. It came with 3 springs and the outer were angled. I'd like to get a kit of 5 noiseless springs (not sure if it's a gimmick tho) to experiment with, should I get the regular or heavy duty strings? Thanks.
@@Ben-ld1qi Hey Ben. To prevent string noise you can stick soft foam under them lightly touching them with no pressure. Or, what I did too: shoving a thin strip of foam into each string . So, you don't necessarilly need the noiseles springs. I think they are just plastic coated. Five springs will help better to get back in tune after using the trem. If they should be stiff springs or soft ones, depends on your playing style and if you like the feel of a hard to push trem. If you play aggresive, you might like the feel of stiff springs. They provide a faster attack, and pull the strings better in tune. Softer springs will provide a more "springy" sound. My Slick SL57 has three very stiff springs (parallel), and it gets 99% back in tune even after dive bombs, but I don't like the very stiff trem. Also I feel the sound is constricted somehow, it lacks some airyness. I intend to swap them with 3 or 4 regular springs, or the "Fender pure vintage" (19€), or the soft "Raw vintage" (expensive, 36€). And keeping in mind the option of 4 springs. As for heavy duty springs, I find there has to be a certain amount of stretch to work properly. If a very stiff spring is just stretched by only 2-3 mm, it is not able to pull properly. So, better 4 or 5 soft springs than 2 or 3 stiff ones. Cheers 🤘
@@Augrills Sure, angled springs are looking less boring. If it helps to be in a more inspired mood with angled springs, just go for it. That helps for sure! The difference in functionality is almost neglectable. As I don't care for the cool look in the back of my guitar, I tend to go for effectiveness and functionality. At the moment, I don't see a benefit of angled springs from physics perspective, but as often happened, I learn and have to change mind. 🤘
@@lone-wolf-1 Appreciate your reply. I have to mention that I'm just a beginner and as much as floyd rose can be suffering, I'm sharing the mentality with another poster that said 'my first guitar was a floyd rose, no other can hurt me now' LOL. So instead of 'omg just make it work', I'm trying to learn as much as I can. To be honest I don't believe I've even heard any noise from the springs, or perhaps I just did not notice. But I saw there were noiseless springs, and I read up about it and thought why not, I also so people using the foam inside the springs trick. My current issue with the FR1000 on the Fusion III is that, after divebombing a lot, is that the strings go just a tad bit flat, then I return using the fine tuners, then I dive comb a lot agian, and then some of the strings go flat again etc etc.... and then the opposite effect happens if I pull up, except this time some of the strings go a bit sharp, I retune using the fine tuners, pull up a lot again, then some are sharp again etc etc... In terms of dive bombing with the current springs the low E string can drop below a B where the guitar tuner won't register it, but it's not difficult to drop to B. I'm mostly concerned about tuning stability, all I need is be able to push down a bit, using it like a simple tremolo, practicing surf rock style for now. The things I considered were: 1) Rearrange the original 3 strings to be straight instead of angular to test if the stability improves 2) Get a pack of 5 regular/heavy duty strings and test out different variations By the way regarding the springs airyness and sound, I recently saw a video called 'Strat Tremolo Springs Make a Difference in Guitar Tone' where he swapped out the strings to Fender Raw Vintage (not %100 sure on that) and he said it just sounded way better than the stock Gotoh springs. So there's an interesting after thought. Thanks for letting me know about the stiffness with heavy duty springs and how it might affect pulling up, I'll probably just go with regular ones. Thank you so much. I find it awesome that the "floyd rose community" is so supportive and helpful to one another. Edit: I can't people some people would put angular just because it looks cooler. After hours upon hours of suffering the first priority for it would be stability and functionality, for all I care the back can have springs with bunny years in zigzags.
If the springs are oriented symmetrically, there should be no problem. There would be no uneven load on the system under those circumstances. So it doesn’t really matter guys.
@@martianmurray indeed angle decrease amount of tention (divide force of spring in 2 directions) but it also affects Length of spring and it looks like you use shorter spring.
it does matter the tension being pulled by the springs centers the energy in center line with the guitar neck. 40+ years working on and playing guitars, string gauge matter too, electric guitars most of all of them designed for 9-42 strings, they're engineered for that size.
I never use angled springs, straight springs always stay in tune better in my experience. I can get the same benifit of angled springs by just adjusting the screws and without the loss in stability. I usually go for 2 springs on a floating setup on a non locking trem and 3 springs on a Floyd or a decked setup. On my Gotoh and my Wilkinson bridges I like to have almost no resistance (and I already use light strings)
No. With a Floyd rose, the tension of one string affects the tension of the others. For instance. If you tighten the b string, the g string loses tension,
I’m going from 9 to 10 and it’s got my tremolo offset a lot bc it already was with 9s. So I’m getting some heavy duty springs and I’m gonna mix and match and see what gets me the best position
2:14 angling two springs does not increase string tension as much as you might think. If the outer two are pulling more, the middle straight one has to pull less. So the increment is divided by two. 😉 But then again: spring tension and string tension are allways in perfect balance. This means, if the springs are pulling harder, the open strings are getting sharp. So you have to release the claw, wich results in balancing the spring/string tension to initial. 🤷🏻 In the end, angling two springs is like having two and a half springs working. Maybe good, if two springs are too soft, and three are not enough stretched to work properly. 🤔
have just uptunned me Jackson Stealth EX to E, from B after many years. I'm now using 11-49 D'Addario strings to get to E after removing the 11-52 gauge that got me to B. The bridge is tipped up with both screws at the spring block all the way in i.e., no thread showing, no more travel is possible. Is it advisable to add another spring to pull it back do you think? Thanks.
Hi Nik thanks for making this video very informative and helpful. I have a question related to springs and orientation. The guitar originally had 9-42. But I use 10-46 gauge standard E tuning but it kinda feels stiff at times less flutter . I have stock springs and v setup . Is there way to make it flutter ? Like feel less stiff
I find less tension gives me better flutters. Less springs the better. I currently have 10-56 in c# standard with 2 heavy duty noiseless angled in and flutters great. Also an e standard with 9-42 with 3 springs that also flutters well. Both FR 1000 bridges
Hey Mate , Could you please explain me whats the difference between 2 springs and 4 springs , since you need the same tension to set your floyd bridge flat ? For example 9.42 Gauge on a 25.5 Scale guitar needs around 93lbs to counter the tension from the neck on E Standard. So whats the difference between getting 93lbs from 2 spring vs 93lbs from 4 spring ? You will tight the screws more with 2 spring than you do with 4 spring to match the same tension. İ am asking this , because İ have a Loproedge guitar with 09-42 on E Standard which has 3 springs atm. İ never find myself tuning my guitar unless i change the strings and i bend alot. But the tension under my fingers are pretty stiff. Do you think, taking off 1 spring gonna make a difference when it comes to bends? The reason that am asking it is because i want to play in Estandard wih 9's but want the feeling of half step drop looseness. İ tryed d# and i loved the smoothness and feel. So am curious if taking out 1 spring can make similar effect :) Thanks for you time cheers
Need help , i have a newer jackson mij DKR 24 that ive tuned 1/2 step down (9s) and my bridge is perfectly level but when ever i bend a string and theres overlaying tones from other strings you can hear it pull out of tune with the bend and i know to a degree this is normal but compared to say my PRS CE OR MY CHARVEL jim root /floyd rose 1500 its way more extreme on my jackson , do you have any advice where i should start to address this should i add a spring ( i have the 3 factory now) or move my bridge float forward some ect ... any advice would be great thank you love chanel
I recently bought a new brass bottom block for my Floyd rose tremolo and the springs keep jumping out now I checked and one way the springs angle down the other correct way it’s leveled I couldn’t believe that such a stupid thing could happen to me but it did so inform the folks about such a simple but major important thing
Why can it move less up or down? Because it‘s not the case. One (lower) spring pulls the trem up, but the other outer spring pull the trem down. Both are kinda cancelling out each other.🤷🏻♂️
I have an Inanez RG480 that I bought new in 1994. I was playing the other day and hit the whammy bar and the trem dropped. I took the back off and all the springs detached. Also it had a horrible squeak sound. I reattached springs and put electrical tape over the springs. Probably just need to replace the springs.
Great video thanks. I have just purchased a Kramer Baretta Vintage. The Floyd Rose has three springs angled in a “V”. I feel like I will need to start going to gym, to be able to do a dive bomb. It’s really stiff. I have read of guys who remove one string. But after tightening the spring screws, there’s very little difference in the tension, just getting flutter is a bit easier. Any advice? Thanks.
@@nikaxeguitar Standard tuning and the 10 to 46 strings that are standard issue on the guitar. The springs are standard for the Floyd Rose 1000 series.
Put 9s.on it, and remove one spring. 10s with three springs is stable, but is a lot more stiff than a floating, recessed cavity trem (which fhe Baretta is not)
I will tell about my experience. I bought Ibanezrg550 genesis and i was ready to throw my guitar out of the windows...but i didn't give up. I found a way to tune it and make the bridge like this __. I lock the tremolo i screw all the way in the 2 🔩 behind it. Then i tune it ( the fine tuners are almost all the way in) and so when i tune the guitar in E and remove the block the guitar go to F or F#. Then i start to loose the bolts when i get this position ___ im using the fine tuners ( i forgot to mentioned it , when i make the guitar in E then i lock the locking nuts ) so when the guitar is in tune its not a big problem i played like 2 weeks and i did a lot of whammy and dive bombs but the guitar still stays in tune. /|\ my springs are looking like this triangle. Sorry i can't speak good english but i hope this comment will help someone. Peace \m/
t does matter the tension being pulled by the springs angle method centers the energy center line with the guitar neck so angle method centers the energy better creating better sustain and resonance, the body and the neck become in unison better. It directs the tension/energy towards the guitar neck better than straight method. Centering energy is always better than spreading the energy. 40+ years working on and playing guitars and engineering degree, string gauge matter too, electric guitars most of all of them designed for 9-42 strings, they're engineered for that size. Also the lower you can get your tremolo system into the guitar cavity the better sustain and resonance. My 2001 Ibanez RG470, 2006 Ibanez Jem 555 and 2004 Ibanez RG2550E play like a dream! I specifically setup my guitar for the best tone optimization.
The angles make the springs less effective because they reduce the force the spring can pull back against the string tension. If they are parallel they're more effective. So all this means is you will need to tighten the screws a little more on the angled setup for same string gauge and tuning. Now what it feels like when you're doing deep dives, it may feel different. One may feel better to some. Easier to push trem arm for deep dive bombs. So it's all personal preference. Try both ways and see if you like one better. I personally think it won't. The angles are canceled out by the screws tightening. If you run out of tension with the angles then you need to add a spring. Doubt that would happen either.
The angle introduces a vector component, if you will. The spring is being stretched to a greater distance to produce a greater spring tension. However, the angled spring tension (force) that pulls the trem along the plane of the strings is less than the direct pull from the claw to the trem. Even so, the force (vector) of the angled spring that is parallel to the strings should be greater than a straight spring. Now, how do I know to put dampeners on the springs? (I edited for this question)
i’ve learned I’m too old for patience with this system lol. been messing around with my jackson soloist. bringing mine to my local tech and will pay for setup lol
Seems like all these replacement or aftermarket springs you can buy all put excessive tension on the bridge compared to stock ones. Then you have to loosen off claw end that far to get bridge level again that it looks unnatural or worse it’s barely hanging on because screws are wound out too far!
@@adrianbennett5707 i have the same issue on my strat, which uses 3 angled springs. i will throw in some higher tension springs, and pull back the claw a fair amount.
Two very important things you didn't mention. 1) You talk about moving the adjustment screws on the claw if you add springs, but never mention what the person is trying to accomplish by doing this. "Counter balance the string tension, yes". But what they are actually looking for is that the floating tremolo is parallel to the body when in tune. Any changes in tuning, string gauge or spring tension will throw this off and need to be adjusted accordingly. 2) Angled springs can prevent hanging up on the body, depending on the relief the body was routed. I've had factory guitars where angled springs are absolutely necessary in order to prevent the springs from hanging up on the body. So straight springs or adding springs may not even be a choice for some people. In which case they will need to buy springs with greater tension. I would say- before you even bother touching the springs, tuning or string gauge you should understand all of this. Otherwise you're likely to really be one of those "my Floyd Rose is garbage" types. Floyd Rose is the best tremolo in my opinion, if you plan on using the whammy any regular amount. However, it's also the most finicky. It's really a double edged sword.
I found your video trying resolve a constant issue with my Ibanez RG 652 prestige edge trem. It is a nightmare to get in tune due to the springs and tension screws I play in E flat to E standard and every very very very slight touch to a fine tuning screw changes the tuning pitch and Intonation as soon as you stop trying to turn a fine tuning screw it's higher than you thought I'd lower it can go either way but tuning pitch and Intonation are never balanced due to this crappy ass bridge tried adding springs which had loosen the screws HORRIBLE idea! Same with angling them I finally just decided to buy another guitar because it's so fucked up and it's been this way since day one and not the one person with this issue so ESP here I come and Ibanez can go to where the sun never shines . Any solutions
Actually seeing the tremolo move in a desired way really made me think it's more of a taste thing and it has to work. Never liked Angled. Never liked straight. I could use a mix now im buying a seven string.
I have foam tucked in between my springs. When recording you can hear the springs make a sound when you stop playing, it's quite noticeable. With the foam pieces in there, the sound of the springs goes dead.
I have been playing for over 30 years and I can feel right away without looking if springs are angled or straight. Straight the strings pull funny on my fingers, but when angled I feel like load or tension is more even on outside 4 strings. Nobody’s talking about what it feels like. And don’t tell me there is no difference
I don’t know why so many people use the angled method. It’s wrong , I’ve been told this by countless techs. If the springs are all under different tensions, you run the risk of the lower tension springs popping out. If you’re not getting enough tension to counter balance your strings, put in another spring. ALL springs should be parallel to one another.
Im not saying your techs are wrong, but in decades of playing, I have never had a spring pop out. I usually have 2 outside, angled, and that’s it. But it really depends on the individual guitar.
@@hotmetalslugs that’s fair. Being from an engineering background though, having identical components carrying dissimilar loads makes absolutely no sense to me. If you’re not getting enough tension to counter act the string, for what it’s worth, get another spring. Differing loads is not right.
I also want to add, if one is looking to ‘fine tune’ their trem resistance or zero point, that’s exactly what the claw positioning screws are for. Any level of resistance you’re looking for is perfectly achievable by altering the amount of springs in conjunction with a correctly adjusted claw position. Yet again, there’s no logical sense in running your springs at different levels of tension from one another.
Hi engineer guy, if you angle the springs symmetrically, it’s not an unbalanced tension force overall. The individual spring in the middle would be a different tension than the angled ones, but ultimately that doesn’t really matter because it’s symmetrical.
So many theories on this. But he saved the best advice for the very last moment of the video: “play around with it”.
I did the test on my guitar with 9-42 so I found that changing the outer springs angled vs straight didn't added or reduced tension BUT changed the FEEL of the whammy bar, so, changing the angle of springs won't make your guitar go out of tune if it's already set up properly, having the springs angled makes the whammy bar more precise, angled springs have increased LOAD not increased tension
I'm new to having a FR and am worried about screwing this up. So changing springs does not impact the bridge? It will remain flat and the guitar will stay in tune regardless of whether I remove a spring, change the angle, etc?
@@SpookyApparition No, I said that changing the angle of the outer springs doesn't increase tension, it increases load force, it makes the tremolo bar more precise, you can try it, just block the tremolo bar before removing springs
@@Alex_Martz awesome, I will give it a try!
Great info Nick. Thank you !
I angled the springs on my RG655's Edge trem recently. It's a great trem as it always returns to pitch and has the best flutters you could want. The problem was, it was too easy to send notes sharp when playing hard. I installed new springs and still it wasn't quite right, so I angled them and it did seem to make a difference.
Angeling two springs does not increase string tension as much as most might think. If the outer two are pulling more, the middle straight one has to pull less. So the increment is minuscule. 😉
But then again: spring tension and string tension are allways in perfect balance. This means, if the springs are pulling harder, the open strings are getting sharp. So you have to release the claw, wich results in balancing the spring/string tension to intonated open strings . 🤷🏻
In the end, angling two springs is like having two and a half springs working.
Maybe good, if two springs are too soft, and three are not enough stretched to work properly. 🤔
Angling some springs will put the springs into different states of their stretch, effecting the rate at which your springs are trying to return to their set position, this is great for balancing the trem to return to pitch better than 3 or 4 applying the same force.
I like that. I said a similar thing. It may feel different while the arm is going full dive and return. Or maybe it won't.
I have the angled setup on my rhoads. I found it to be a bit on the stiff side at first but I'm used to the tension now and it gives me more control when I'm doing things like Jeff Hanneman's whammy bar fills in the South of Heaven "chaos rampant..." parts. I was doing setup adjustments on my guitar yesterday when it was time to change strings and just as I had the float position and neck relief right I decided to tweak the string height as it was a little too high. The high E string broke near the tuning peg as I was tuning it up one final time and it was too late to pop out for new strings. So I left the guitar in the case and got new strings this morning (2 sets and an individual E to replace the broken one). What happened? The B string broke this time! So I threw away the whole set and put on one of the new ones I bought this morning. I had to adjust the screws to get the float right again because I think adjusting the bridge to tweak the string height changed the float position as well. Anyway, with all my tweaking and adjusting, I finally got the bridge to sit right, the guitar tuned up and haven't had to touch the intonation because the 12th fret harmonics are still the same as the fretted notes. I left the guitar in the case to rest overnight with the nut unlocked after stretching and playing in the strings. I'll give the tuning one last tweak in the morning, lock the nut and it should be good to go.
Very informative, thanks for all of your knowledge and hours of research you did!! Keep the awesome content coming! ( Great channel BTW)
Appreciate that my man
Thank you! Very helpful
Quick question.. I have the \ | / right now on one of my dimebag guitars and I notice when I try dime squeals the Lower E strings goes more lower then my other strings and I pick up extra noise while I’m trying to do my thing so I get more noise. How do I fix that?
I think there is a lot of snake oil on the subject. Angles don’t add spring tension it adds spring load. The spring tension has to be equal to the string tension regardless of angled or straight. I think all it does is play around with the spring load meaning how far it is stretched. This is what effects the available travel and how much resistance to movement the whammy bar has. You always want enough spring load that you can pull up and not drop the springs out of the block or off the claw…. If you have the springs super loaded, the bar won’t want to dive easily or very far. I like 2 springs angled with a moderate spring load. It feels equal going up or down and works best for me
Thanks, now it makes sense and lines up with some old luthier advice to go to 2 angled or 3 straight ‘light’ springs if I want to use the bar close to the bend while rolling the volume.
It's one of the most meaningful topics that I have do more struggling than anything for the last 47 years, so I need all the info I can get my hands on, but for Floyd rose tremolo, extra light strings, what brand trem. springs would you prefere, Floyd rose, FM, others?
I have Tuned my Guitar to Drop C. Should I add a 4th spring or change the angle of my 3 springs?
I found the setup that works on all my guitars is Fu-tone Titanium saddle blocks and screws with the biggest brass big blocks that pituitar guitar can take. I have that same set up on my original 1989 Kramer Nightswan, Kramer Dave Sabo guitar and my 1996 Hamer Californian. It was actually a huge difference on the Hamer as someone previously had 5 springs in it and played like crap. So 3 red Fu-tone springs solved that lol. All guitars use .011-.46 pure nickels strings and are tuned to E standard. All guitars flutter and stay in tune no matter hard you are on them. I actually highly recommend Fu-tone for any floating bridge, not just foe the improvement in tone, but the reliability is much better as well.
Yeah I had a fight setting up 10's on an RG560. 3 springs had the claw screwed all the way in = limited dive. 4 springs did the job but the hard won lesson... When adjusting the claw screws, only an 1/8 turn at a time.
Exactly! That’s a good tip!
I‘m not an advocate for angled springs.
Reasons:
1. for slightly more tension just screw the claw deeper
2. angled springs will slightly rotate at their anchor points, while the trem gets used. This unnecessarily increases friction, wich prevents getting back in tune.
3. the above mentioned rotational friction is even higher on the angled springs, what makes it harder to set back in tune.
4. the springs will ring at two different pitches. Could clash with each other and the notes played on strings, causing a dead spot at a certain pitch where the note does decay rapidly. If you already have a dead spot, now you end up with two.
The only nice effect you have with angled springs is the initial softer feel of the trem and it has more resistance the more you push/pull on the trem, because of the straight spring engaging later.
But everybody can do what he likes…
Cheers ✌🏼😊
Edit one year later: I just realized, that angling two springs does not increase string tension as much as you might think. If the outer two are pulling more, the middle straight one has to pull less. So the increment is divided by two. 😉
But then again: spring tension and string tension are allways (ideally) in perfect balance. This means, if the springs are pulling harder, the open strings are getting sharp. So you have to release the claw, wich results in balancing the spring/string tension to initial. 🤷🏻
In the end, angling two springs is like having two and a half springs working.
Maybe good, if two springs are too soft, and three are not enough stretched to work properly. 🤔
But it looks cool. And even though no one can see them when you’re playing, that matters
Thanks, i have a few follow up questions. I got a Harley Benton Fusion III with FR1000. It came with 3 springs and the outer were angled. I'd like to get a kit of 5 noiseless springs (not sure if it's a gimmick tho) to experiment with, should I get the regular or heavy duty strings? Thanks.
@@Ben-ld1qi
Hey Ben. To prevent string noise you can stick soft foam under them lightly touching them with no pressure. Or, what I did too: shoving a thin strip of foam into each string . So, you don't necessarilly need the noiseles springs. I think they are just plastic coated.
Five springs will help better to get back in tune after using the trem. If they should be stiff springs or soft ones, depends on your playing style and if you like the feel of a hard to push trem. If you play aggresive, you might like the feel of stiff springs. They provide a faster attack, and pull the strings better in tune.
Softer springs will provide a more "springy" sound.
My Slick SL57 has three very stiff springs (parallel), and it gets 99% back in tune even after dive bombs, but I don't like the very stiff trem. Also I feel the sound is constricted somehow, it lacks some airyness. I intend to swap them with 3 or 4 regular springs, or the "Fender pure vintage" (19€), or the soft "Raw vintage" (expensive, 36€). And keeping in mind the option of 4 springs.
As for heavy duty springs, I find there has to be a certain amount of stretch to work properly. If a very stiff spring is just stretched by only 2-3 mm, it is not able to pull properly. So, better 4 or 5 soft springs than 2 or 3 stiff ones.
Cheers 🤘
@@Augrills Sure, angled springs are looking less boring. If it helps to be in a more inspired mood with angled springs, just go for it. That helps for sure! The difference in functionality is almost neglectable.
As I don't care for the cool look in the back of my guitar, I tend to go for effectiveness and functionality. At the moment, I don't see a benefit of angled springs from physics perspective, but as often happened, I learn and have to change mind. 🤘
@@lone-wolf-1 Appreciate your reply. I have to mention that I'm just a beginner and as much as floyd rose can be suffering, I'm sharing the mentality with another poster that said 'my first guitar was a floyd rose, no other can hurt me now' LOL. So instead of 'omg just make it work', I'm trying to learn as much as I can. To be honest I don't believe I've even heard any noise from the springs, or perhaps I just did not notice. But I saw there were noiseless springs, and I read up about it and thought why not, I also so people using the foam inside the springs trick.
My current issue with the FR1000 on the Fusion III is that, after divebombing a lot, is that the strings go just a tad bit flat, then I return using the fine tuners, then I dive comb a lot agian, and then some of the strings go flat again etc etc.... and then the opposite effect happens if I pull up, except this time some of the strings go a bit sharp, I retune using the fine tuners, pull up a lot again, then some are sharp again etc etc...
In terms of dive bombing with the current springs the low E string can drop below a B where the guitar tuner won't register it, but it's not difficult to drop to B. I'm mostly concerned about tuning stability, all I need is be able to push down a bit, using it like a simple tremolo, practicing surf rock style for now.
The things I considered were:
1) Rearrange the original 3 strings to be straight instead of angular to test if the stability improves
2) Get a pack of 5 regular/heavy duty strings and test out different variations
By the way regarding the springs airyness and sound, I recently saw a video called 'Strat Tremolo Springs Make a Difference in Guitar Tone' where he swapped out the strings to Fender Raw Vintage (not %100 sure on that) and he said it just sounded way better than the stock Gotoh springs. So there's an interesting after thought.
Thanks for letting me know about the stiffness with heavy duty springs and how it might affect pulling up, I'll probably just go with regular ones.
Thank you so much. I find it awesome that the "floyd rose community" is so supportive and helpful to one another.
Edit: I can't people some people would put angular just because it looks cooler. After hours upon hours of suffering the first priority for it would be stability and functionality, for all I care the back can have springs with bunny years in zigzags.
If the springs are oriented symmetrically, there should be no problem. There would be no uneven load on the system under those circumstances. So it doesn’t really matter guys.
Angling adds a little more tension if needed.
@@martianmurray indeed angle decrease amount of tention (divide force of spring in 2 directions) but it also affects Length of spring and it looks like you use shorter spring.
it does matter the tension being pulled by the springs centers the energy in center line with the guitar neck. 40+ years working on and playing guitars, string gauge matter too, electric guitars most of all of them designed for 9-42 strings, they're engineered for that size.
I never use angled springs, straight springs always stay in tune better in my experience.
I can get the same benifit of angled springs by just adjusting the screws and without the loss in stability.
I usually go for 2 springs on a floating setup on a non locking trem and 3 springs on a Floyd or a decked setup. On my Gotoh and my Wilkinson bridges I like to have almost no resistance (and I already use light strings)
That’s fair. Appreciate you stopping by!
I like to play a lot of dimebag squeals but my guitar always goes out of tune every time I do so. Please help me how to adjust the springs 😥
If I only have 2 springs would that be the cause for another string tuning up and down as I tune another string?
No. With a Floyd rose, the tension of one string affects the tension of the others. For instance. If you tighten the b string, the g string loses tension,
I’m going from 9 to 10 and it’s got my tremolo offset a lot bc it already was with 9s. So I’m getting some heavy duty springs and I’m gonna mix and match and see what gets me the best position
2:14 angling two springs does not increase string tension as much as you might think. If the outer two are pulling more, the middle straight one has to pull less. So the increment is divided by two. 😉
But then again: spring tension and string tension are allways in perfect balance. This means, if the springs are pulling harder, the open strings are getting sharp. So you have to release the claw, wich results in balancing the spring/string tension to initial. 🤷🏻
In the end, angling two springs is like having two and a half springs working.
Maybe good, if two springs are too soft, and three are not enough stretched to work properly. 🤔
My head just blew off!! But thank you for the lesson 👍😅
have just uptunned me Jackson Stealth EX to E, from B after many years. I'm now using 11-49 D'Addario strings to get to E after removing the 11-52 gauge that got me to B. The bridge is tipped up with both screws at the spring block all the way in i.e., no thread showing, no more travel is possible. Is it advisable to add another spring to pull it back do you think? Thanks.
Yes, or, get stiffer springs. The Floyd Rose branded green ones are stiffest, then red, then black, then silver is normal.
Hi Nik thanks for making this video very informative and helpful. I have a question related to springs and orientation. The guitar originally had 9-42. But I use 10-46 gauge standard E tuning but it kinda feels stiff at times less flutter . I have stock springs and v setup . Is there way to make it flutter ? Like feel less stiff
I find less tension gives me better flutters. Less springs the better. I currently have 10-56 in c# standard with 2 heavy duty noiseless angled in and flutters great. Also an e standard with 9-42 with 3 springs that also flutters well. Both FR 1000 bridges
Hey Mate , Could you please explain me whats the difference between 2 springs and 4 springs , since you need the same tension to set your floyd bridge flat ? For example 9.42 Gauge on a 25.5 Scale guitar needs around 93lbs to counter the tension from the neck on E Standard. So whats the difference between getting 93lbs from 2 spring vs 93lbs from 4 spring ? You will tight the screws more with 2 spring than you do with 4 spring to match the same tension.
İ am asking this , because İ have a Loproedge guitar with 09-42 on E Standard which has 3 springs atm. İ never find myself tuning my guitar unless i change the strings and i bend alot. But the tension under my fingers are pretty stiff. Do you think, taking off 1 spring gonna make a difference when it comes to bends?
The reason that am asking it is because i want to play in Estandard wih 9's but want the feeling of half step drop looseness. İ tryed d# and i loved the smoothness and feel. So am curious if taking out 1 spring can make similar effect :)
Thanks for you time cheers
Yes, less string tension = easier bends.. 2 springs can probably handle 9-42
Need help , i have a newer jackson mij DKR 24 that ive tuned 1/2 step down (9s) and my bridge is perfectly level but when ever i bend a string and theres overlaying tones from other strings you can hear it pull out of tune with the bend and i know to a degree this is normal but compared to say my PRS CE OR MY CHARVEL jim root /floyd rose 1500 its way more extreme on my jackson , do you have any advice where i should start to address this should i add a spring ( i have the 3 factory now) or move my bridge float forward some ect ... any advice would be great thank you love chanel
Message me on IG @nikaxeguitar
I recently bought a new brass bottom block for my Floyd rose tremolo and the springs keep jumping out now I checked and one way the springs angle down the other correct way it’s leveled I couldn’t believe that such a stupid thing could happen to me but it did so inform the folks about such a simple but major important thing
That usually means the block is on backwards.
A quick thought: angled springs may help with stability because the trem is less likely to move up and down on the sides.
Why can it move less up or down? Because it‘s not the case. One (lower) spring pulls the trem up, but the other outer spring pull the trem down. Both are kinda cancelling out each other.🤷🏻♂️
@@lone-wolf-1 The two side springs have more tension on them, so they are less likely to move where they not supposed to be.
My first string is hard !! the second is too saggy, the other 4 are good and smooth. what is wrong ??? Ibanez 370RG floyd rose.
I have an Inanez RG480 that I bought new in 1994. I was playing the other day and hit the whammy bar and the trem dropped. I took the back off and all the springs detached. Also it had a horrible squeak sound. I reattached springs and put electrical tape over the springs. Probably just need to replace the springs.
The only angle mine is to make them easier to grab on too for removal with my fingers if I want to remove them for any reason.
Hi, I like your videos😁
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Also I got a question. What do you think about Wilkinson Floyd Rose?
The Wilkinson trems? I like them for a non locking option. Super easy to use too. It too complicated. They also keep the cost down on most guitars.
When I use the whammy bar my guitar goes out of tune. Should I maybe add another spring?
Not usually the case my friend. Give me a message on IG @nikaxeguitar so we can talk about it
Great video thanks.
I have just purchased a Kramer Baretta Vintage. The Floyd Rose has three springs angled in a “V”. I feel like I will need to start going to gym, to be able to do a dive bomb. It’s really stiff. I have read of guys who remove one string. But after tightening the spring screws, there’s very little difference in the tension, just getting flutter is a bit easier. Any advice? Thanks.
What is your tuning and string gauge? Also, do you know if the springs are heavy duty?
@@nikaxeguitar Standard tuning and the 10 to 46 strings that are standard issue on the guitar. The springs are standard for the Floyd Rose 1000 series.
Put 9s.on it, and remove one spring. 10s with three springs is stable, but is a lot more stiff than a floating, recessed cavity trem (which fhe Baretta is not)
@@philfrank5601 Thank you Phil. Much appreciated. I will give it a try.
I will tell about my experience. I bought Ibanezrg550 genesis and i was ready to throw my guitar out of the windows...but i didn't give up. I found a way to tune it and make the bridge like this __. I lock the tremolo i screw all the way in the 2 🔩 behind it. Then i tune it ( the fine tuners are almost all the way in) and so when i tune the guitar in E and remove the block the guitar go to F or F#. Then i start to loose the bolts when i get this position ___ im using the fine tuners ( i forgot to mentioned it , when i make the guitar in E then i lock the locking nuts ) so when the guitar is in tune its not a big problem i played like 2 weeks and i did a lot of whammy and dive bombs but the guitar still stays in tune. /|\ my springs are looking like this triangle.
Sorry i can't speak good english but i hope this comment will help someone. Peace \m/
t does matter the tension being pulled by the springs angle method centers the energy center line with the guitar neck so angle method centers the energy better creating better sustain and resonance, the body and the neck become in unison better. It directs the tension/energy towards the guitar neck better than straight method. Centering energy is always better than spreading the energy. 40+ years working on and playing guitars and engineering degree, string gauge matter too, electric guitars most of all of them designed for 9-42 strings, they're engineered for that size. Also the lower you can get your tremolo system into the guitar cavity the better sustain and resonance. My 2001 Ibanez RG470, 2006 Ibanez Jem 555 and 2004 Ibanez RG2550E play like a dream! I specifically setup my guitar for the best tone optimization.
The angles make the springs less effective because they reduce the force the spring can pull back against the string tension. If they are parallel they're more effective. So all this means is you will need to tighten the screws a little more on the angled setup for same string gauge and tuning. Now what it feels like when you're doing deep dives, it may feel different. One may feel better to some. Easier to push trem arm for deep dive bombs. So it's all personal preference. Try both ways and see if you like one better. I personally think it won't. The angles are canceled out by the screws tightening. If you run out of tension with the angles then you need to add a spring. Doubt that would happen either.
The angle introduces a vector component, if you will. The spring is being stretched to a greater distance to produce a greater spring tension. However, the angled spring tension (force) that pulls the trem along the plane of the strings is less than the direct pull from the claw to the trem. Even so, the force (vector) of the angled spring that is parallel to the strings should be greater than a straight spring. Now, how do I know to put dampeners on the springs? (I edited for this question)
i’ve learned I’m too old for patience with this system lol. been messing around with my jackson soloist. bringing mine to my local tech and will pay for setup lol
I'm using all 5 to keep my tremolo flat leveling __ mine was angled way high on the knife /
Seems like all these replacement or aftermarket springs you can buy all put excessive tension on the bridge compared to stock ones. Then you have to loosen off claw end that far to get bridge level again that it looks unnatural or worse it’s barely hanging on because screws are wound out too far!
I have the opposite issue my springs don’t have enough tension and the claw is as far as it goes
@@adrianbennett5707 i have the same issue on my strat, which uses 3 angled springs. i will throw in some higher tension springs, and pull back the claw a fair amount.
Thanks for sorting out the bullshit about angling springs. What you said makes good sense!
Yessir!! Appreciate you stopping by!
I try out different spring tension until it I found the right ones without having to mess with the screws.
Credit where credit is due: EVH
i cant tighten the screws to increase spring tension anymore
Two very important things you didn't mention. 1) You talk about moving the adjustment screws on the claw if you add springs, but never mention what the person is trying to accomplish by doing this. "Counter balance the string tension, yes". But what they are actually looking for is that the floating tremolo is parallel to the body when in tune. Any changes in tuning, string gauge or spring tension will throw this off and need to be adjusted accordingly. 2) Angled springs can prevent hanging up on the body, depending on the relief the body was routed. I've had factory guitars where angled springs are absolutely necessary in order to prevent the springs from hanging up on the body. So straight springs or adding springs may not even be a choice for some people. In which case they will need to buy springs with greater tension. I would say- before you even bother touching the springs, tuning or string gauge you should understand all of this. Otherwise you're likely to really be one of those "my Floyd Rose is garbage" types. Floyd Rose is the best tremolo in my opinion, if you plan on using the whammy any regular amount. However, it's also the most finicky. It's really a double edged sword.
Great point!
I found your video trying resolve a constant issue with my Ibanez RG 652 prestige edge trem. It is a nightmare to get in tune due to the springs and tension screws I play in E flat to E standard and every very very very slight touch to a fine tuning screw changes the tuning pitch and Intonation as soon as you stop trying to turn a fine tuning screw it's higher than you thought I'd lower it can go either way but tuning pitch and Intonation are never balanced due to this crappy ass bridge tried adding springs which had loosen the screws HORRIBLE idea! Same with angling them I finally just decided to buy another guitar because it's so fucked up and it's been this way since day one and not the one person with this issue so ESP here I come and Ibanez can go to where the sun never shines . Any solutions
Actually seeing the tremolo move in a desired way really made me think it's more of a taste thing and it has to work. Never liked Angled. Never liked straight. I could use a mix now im buying a seven string.
Flutters work better with 2 springs not four. Fout would actually make them dye fast.
Somehow springs do change the acoustics of how the strings sound of the bridge
I have foam tucked in between my springs. When recording you can hear the springs make a sound when you stop playing, it's quite noticeable. With the foam pieces in there, the sound of the springs goes dead.
I like springs ,2 on the outside and 1 in the middle
Same here
I have been playing for over 30 years and I can feel right away without looking if springs are angled or straight. Straight the strings pull funny on my fingers, but when angled I feel like load or tension is more even on outside 4 strings. Nobody’s talking about what it feels like. And don’t tell me there is no difference
I did that 30 years ago. Calm down.
I don’t know why so many people use the angled method. It’s wrong , I’ve been told this by countless techs. If the springs are all under different tensions, you run the risk of the lower tension springs popping out. If you’re not getting enough tension to counter balance your strings, put in another spring. ALL springs should be parallel to one another.
Im not saying your techs are wrong, but in decades of playing, I have never had a spring pop out.
I usually have 2 outside, angled, and that’s it. But it really depends on the individual guitar.
I don't know man, I've used my guitar with angled springs for 28 years and never had a problem. 🤷♂
@@hotmetalslugs that’s fair. Being from an engineering background though, having identical components carrying dissimilar loads makes absolutely no sense to me. If you’re not getting enough tension to counter act the string, for what it’s worth, get another spring. Differing loads is not right.
I also want to add, if one is looking to ‘fine tune’ their trem resistance or zero point, that’s exactly what the claw positioning screws are for. Any level of resistance you’re looking for is perfectly achievable by altering the amount of springs in conjunction with a correctly adjusted claw position. Yet again, there’s no logical sense in running your springs at different levels of tension from one another.
Hi engineer guy, if you angle the springs symmetrically, it’s not an unbalanced tension force overall. The individual spring in the middle would be a different tension than the angled ones, but ultimately that doesn’t really matter because it’s symmetrical.
“conundrum”…stop making up words dude!!! 😳
😂😂😂
@@nikaxeguitar …hahaha…I knew you’d get it !!!!!
@@eddiejr540 My man. Thanks for stopping by!
Why do all Floyd Rose techs have backward baseball caps?
We’re unionized. Don’t mess with us.
@@nikaxeguitar Nice haha.
THIS GUY IS JUST BLA BLA BLA NO TESTS OR SOMETHING ELSE WHAT A CRAP.