Debunking "The Book of Mormon is a Different Gospel!"
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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People online are always telling me that it's a "different gospel". I tell them I read all that stuff in the anti-Mormon books I found in Christian book stores over 40 years ago, when I was first trying to learn about the Church! I finally found "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder" by LeGrand Richards in our local public library. But over 40 years later people are STILL saying the same misconceptions and lies, over and over.
The taking of children to the temple at 8 days old were for circumcision; all Saints in all ages, including in the Old Testament, were baptized at 8 years old or older (this is why John the Baptist baptized before Christ even started His ministry).
Additionally, for Genesis 50 and John 1, Joseph Smith translated the Bible by the inspiration of the Spirit, not academically as the King James translators did, and thus Joseph wasn’t wrong because he was aided by God, unlike the KJV translated who used reason and not revelation to translate.
@@catherinemcdavid1533 Isaiah spoke of Joseph smith
@@lukev483 I’m gonna say Google this one
@@lukev483 I don’t know.
But I know by direct revelation that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon is true, of which the Bible prophesied.
The Prophet Joseph appears in Isaiah 11:11 and Isaiah 29:14 to foretell the gathering and restoration of Israel at the time of the coming forth of additional scripture. They shared use of the Hebrew word yāsap, which literally means “to add” and also the name Joseph. The patriarch Joseph, is said: “And she called his name Joseph [yôsēp], and said, The Lord shall add [yōsēp] to me another son” (Genesis 30:24) The two prophecies together through their common use of yāsap, is a wordplay on the name Joseph, it is the seed of Joseph that would be gathered and another Joseph, the Smith, was sent to gather and bring forth of scripture.
The "other gosple" Paul referred to was that of pushing the Law of Moses on gentile converts, not versions of Christ crucified. If they think Paul was referencing Mormonism, he may as well have been referencing the creeds, or Islam, or any number of sects.
It’s a different gospel. A different God and a different Jesus. Not Christian and LDS are not saved.
@Holiday-Music man, thank you so much, I was worried I wasn't going to make it to hell. I need to inform the devil worshipers to come join, they in the wrong churches.
It absolutely refers to the false gospel of LDS.
@@SHREKfiona1234mocking a Christian will not turn out well for you. Neither will rejecting the true gospel.
Paul absolutely was talking about Mormonism
This is the battle I’ve been finding on Twitter. Glad you’re talking about it.
The “How to be Christian” guy and Trent Horne are both really cool.
Oh wait, they’re Catholics.
Thank you for the funny and non cringy jokes Kwaku
The modern version of Evangelicalism has been around less than 100 years, but pretends it was with Paul and the first apostles.
they claim the creeds, but don't like Catholics even though they should be thanking the Catholics (and other groups) for preserving their creedal Christian view for almost 2000 years. I dare say that Evangelicalism is soft-atheism since they limit what God can and cannot do more so than most
@GwPoKo well said brother
It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
@@GwPoKo It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
1) Read the Book if Mormon and 2) pray about it. The Spirit will help and guide you.
"It is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America-it will fill the world.” - Joseph Smith, 1834.
Oh yeah, Sugar Dumplings, oh yeah!!!!
When it works in their favor, anti-mos use interpret at face value, but when the face value favors the restored Gospel then they’re always like, “Well in the original Greek and in ancient times this word means…” 😂😂😂
Bingo!
Ironically, if all of you actually understood the original context and writing of the Bible, you'd all have a much different gospel.
Are ye not Gods!!!!
@@wes2176 No.
@@jmut714 This is an example of a scripture from the Bible which clearly tells us we have the potential to become gods but the Evangelicals say, "Oh no, that's not what that means, you see, here in the Greek translation. . ."
When people say "Where's the endowment and sealing in the BoM?" or "Where are the 3 degrees of glory?" don't understand the fullness of the gospel. If the gospel is "Jesus Christ was sent by the Father to die for our sins and resurrect so we may all be saved by Him" then the Book of Mormon clearly explains each part of that statement indicating what we are commanded to do. The endowment and such things complement that whole message. If there are people who say "the Bible says the exact same thing with the same amount of detail... I've read the New Testament countless times and it doesn't, in books like Hebrews it talks about things as if we already know what's going on, so that explanation is missing.
@@lukev483 Don't even pretend like you believe in Jesus, Reprobate.
People who ask, "Where's the endowment in the Book of Mormon" haven't listened to Don Bradley yet.
Yet the temple contains saving and exalting ordinances. So are those not included in the fulness of the gospel? They're just a complement?
This is such a silly argument, since no book of scripture or collection of books of scripture contains all of God's words to men. Everything is a building upon or complement to other previous scriptures.
@@JD-pr1et If you're going to claim that the fulness of the gospel is in the BOM, then it would be entirely reasonable to assume that all the ordinances required for salvation and exaltation would be included in it. Otherwise, temples would be extraneous to the gospel and not considered part of the fulness.
Mormons own 'the real Jesus'. He is all ours. Christians lost him after they started preaching that 90% of humanity will burn in hell for all eternity, Jesus didn't like that, so he dumped them, dumped them hard. He decided he needed to start from scratch so he chose 1830, North America. He's done pretty good so far. 17,000,000 members worth over a hundred billion dollars in less than 200 years. God sure loves His people.
@@lukev483 Heh heh, don't get your pink panties in a bunch, Big Guy.
@@lukev483 Not only do we own Jesus, we own God the Father, or should I say, He owns us, and only us.
Now, the hard task of convincing the public and the Pope to not believe what they read in the Bible, but to believe just what's in the BOM.
@@joeoleary9010 No, of course not, the Bible, at least most of it, is true. There are talking donkeys and talking snakes and unicorns and witches and giants and large seven-headed creatures rising out of the sea, but still, most of the Bible is true.
That is LITERALLY BLASPHEMY
Brother Joshua, thank you for the six points!
Welcome! Your next challenge is to find them in other BOM places. Hint: like every major Book of Mormon sermon or writer declares these 6 points in their own words. Have fun!
A CALL TO HISTORICAL INVESTIGATION OF MORMONISM: "If we have the truth it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it should be harmed by investigation"
Not only is the Book of Revelations not the last book, but possibly contemporary to Galatians. Why does Paul think an angel will come to the earth with a Gospel? Sounds just like Moroni. Paul is referencing Revelations' angel who brings the Gospel after the anti-Christ overcomes the earth. Fulfilled by Moroni. So, Paul is talking about Moroni. Though the "other" Gospel is "circumcision" that Peter was preaching, not Moroni. Paul's Gospel was one received by new revelation, long after the ascension of Christ.
No no no that reference was not talking about Moroni. The false gospel is what Moroni brought. It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
@@blue-planet-cinema Says the dead branch of the dead tree of Catholicism. There can be only one true gospel. Its either the perpetuation of the Gospel and you are an apostate they cut off long ago, or the Restoration of the Gospel which you reject at yourr own peril.
The problem is evangelicals have been told so many times we members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints are following the devil and that they should not read the book of mormon. If they do truly seek to find the Gospel in the church they maybe scared they might find it and then have to do something about it. They like their low demand religion.
Dearest @alexmunro2640,
Thou hast touched upon a delicate matter that hath been a topic of much discussion among the faithful. Verily, many evangelical brothers and sisters have been counselled to steer clear of The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. Such caution might be rooted in sincere concern, yet it also might limit their understanding and appreciation for the fullness of the gospel it proclaims.
It is notable to mention, as thou hast alluded, the distinct nature of the ministry within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Unlike many religious institutions, our clergy doth not receive financial recompense for their service. This lay ministry, supported not by pay but by pure love and commitment to the Savior’s work, serves as a testament to the genuine devotion and unyielding faith of its members.
While it may be that some prefer a faith that demands less, it is our fervent prayer that all may come to know the richness and depth of the restored gospel. May our conversations always be guided by love, understanding, and a sincere desire to share the fullness of the Savior's teachings.
With heartfelt testimony and understanding, Amen.
ya they're scared they might have to follow the word of wisdom and stop getting drunk or smoking darts and drinking coffee. Worldly folks i tell yah !!
The LDS church says that there is no salvation outside the LDS church and that there are only 2 churches: the LDS Church and the Church of the devil. So, Mormons believe that Christian’s are of the devil. Why do Mormons hate Christianity so much?
@@TylerDaSaint Jesus drank wine. Think about that the next time you read the Word of Wisdom and try to make that make sense.
@@Eagle_Powers It's not hard to make sense of it, unless you want to drink LOL
The real presence in the Eucharist, transubstantiation. I’d like to hear his take on that… I really appreciate you guys so much. Always enjoy the show and learn and grow!
I’d love to see some missionaries on the podcast! Are they allowed to do podcasts? Maybe not on the debunking videos but id definitely want to see a segment with some missionaries👍
I think it depends on the mission president, I know the APs in my mission went on one, wish I could rememeber what it was
So glad Kwaku is back.
They freed kwaku. Based
Lol, I totally miss reading that as black 😂😂
Ah, here come the Christians full of love and understanding telling us we will spend eternity roasting in hell, along with 90% of the human population.
Jesus warned more about hell than any other subject in the Bible. How hard is it to just stop rejecting God's love and acknowlege He is the one and only Lord who demonstrated His love on the cross? People choose to be their own god, and thus will spend eternity away from the love of God, and burning on planet kolob.
@@howardkenneth5569 we love Jesus immensely. We good, bro
@@GwPoKo You love Jospeh Smith's moroni jesus, who is not the resurrected Jesus of the Bible. You are following a false prophet just as Jesus said in Gal 1.
@@howardkenneth5569 reject God's love? You must have thought you were responding to atheist ⚛️ 🤔? I guess?
@@SHREKfiona1234 Mormon's reject God's love by believing they are going to earn their godship in direct rebellion to the one and ONLY God. God's love is received only by a heart trusting alone in the atonement of their sin by Jesus's gruesome death on the cross, and subsequent resurrection.... and then following Jesus as the ONLY Lord, now and in eternity.
Evangelist (the kind that posts on these videos): Believe in Christ and you are saved! OSAS! Nothing can nullify your salvation after that!
Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: I believe in Christ. So, by your own belief, I too am OSAS.
Evangelist (the kind that posts on these videos): You believe in the wrong Jesus!
Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: The Holy Ghost testified to me that the Jesus of the NT is true. I believe in that Jesus. So, whatever else I might believe or not believe or whatever else I might do or not do cannot nullify that.
Evangelist (the kind that posts on these videos): But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but.....
@@howardedward5339 Brother Edward, been there done that. Probably have read more such things than you have. Probably have read more everything than you have, including the Bible. But, I believe in Jesus. The very one of the NT. So, according to you I am OSAS. So, your job is done here. You can move on with your life.
@@lukev483 Brother Luke, yep. Well, and technically for those playing along at home, we all essentially locked in our salvation from before the Creation when we kept our first estate by choosing to follow Christ then. So, yeah, salvation this or that was never our main purpose in coming to this realm. We are eternal beings on a journey of eternal progression. Salvation from sin and death is just incidental. But, anyhow, for those evangelicals that wish to somehow save members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from going to Hell according to the evangelical paradigm, you can save your time and effort. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have already locked that one in with their belief in the Jesus of the NT.
@@howardedward5339 The CES letter lies lies lies!
@@lukev483 Brother Luke, Jesus is recorded as having said, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” In other words, we are commanded to become completely developed as Father is, which yes, means us becoming gods eventually. Obviously, Jesus wouldn’t command something that isn’t possible. The path in this realm to becoming as the Father is being yoked with Jesus via the covenant path, which includes temple covenants. As we abide in Jesus through the covenant path, Jesus is able to facilitate our development to become like Him and the Father by providing us with the necessary nutrients that only His living water can provide.
@@lukev483 Brother Luke, it is a development process. Growth. You are thinking in terms of natural man/carnal mind (as to always messing up). God wants us to fully develop = perfection. It isn't about ceasing to make mistakes, it is about fully developing. Just as all mortal fathers want their children to grow up. This mortality is just one small part of the overall development process. It is the circle of eternal life. Sure, God could have done things in a different way, but apparently this is the way things are done throughout infinity and eternity.
I missed you Kwaku 🙏 Really glad you're back! Also, for last winter I was in Phoenix, AZ which isn't far from Scottsdale and they seemed like very nice people! I was only there for a season, but still. It sounds like you have an interesting story to tell I guess. 😉 I grew up in WA and ID so I hope you've had good experiences with them. And I have also lived in other states since then.
Great vid. Your comments were on point - I always love what you have to say! 🙏 And everyone else had great comments too. I missed "the shadow" in this one though.
The gol-den pla-tes lay hi-i-den, deep in the mountain side!
@@lukev483 Wrong, sir, you are most certainly wrong indeed!
@@lukev483bro they were already doing that before the angel appeared.
We follow Sola Rock-n-Rolla Scriptura. Joseph Smith being the Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rolla!
Sola Scriptura is soft-atheism
A conversation I had.
Apologist: "Paul said not to believe an Angel who brings another gospel and the book of Mormon is another gospel"
Me: "the bible isn't the gospel, the bible contains the gospel in it. The gospel message is all mankind is fallen and lost and only an infinite atonement could save us and the son of God fulfilled that sacrifice. That message is in both the bible and book of Mormon"
Apologist: "I know the bible isn't the gospel, you didn't have to tell me all that."
🤦🏻♂️
The BOM is a different gospel. A different God and a different Jesus. Not Christian and LDS are not saved.
@@Holiday-Music the book of Mormon prophets were commanded to bring brass plates with them to the new world. They found on them the five books of Moses and the writings of the prophets up to Jeremiah at the time in 600 BC. What do we call that today? The bible! That means there is no book of Mormon without the bible.
I've already made a video showing Jesus in the book of Mormon is the same as the guy from the new testament and what a different Jesus actually looks like. Your minister lied to you for job retention.
What is the gospel taught in the book of mormon? How did you arrive at that conclusion?
@@outof_obscurityyou believe satanic lies. That is utter nonsense.
@@outof_obscuritythe LDS church is the temple of satan. Proven.
@@blue-planet-cinema is it? What do you mean by that? How'd you arrive at that conclusion?
If you listen to Jeff Durbin's testimony, he tells of an LDS friend he had when he was a kid in California who had him listen to the missionaries. Then at some point when Jeff rejected the message because he went and found all of the anti Mormon books in the local "Christian" bookstore, and his LDS friend confessed that he knew it wasn't true but he was so entrenched in it with his family that he couldn't leave. I'd like to know who his friend was and if his story would match Jeff's.
And the thorns grew up and choked them.
You’re literally proving your unbiblical and Antichrist. The false gospel is what Moroni brought. It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
the trinity is bs
You’re basically denying who God is and bringing denying Christ his proper honor
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The doctrine of a Trinity of persons in the unity of the divine essence is, without controversy, a great mystery of godliness. The ancient Jews used to call it the sublime mystery, and the mystery of all mysteries, which if a man did not endeavor to make himself acquainted with, it would have been better for him if he had never been created..
- John Gill, The Doctrine of the Trinity Stated and Vindicated
That is blasphemy
Jerusalem-NHM-Bountiful, baby, Jerusalem-NHM-and fricking Bountiful!!!!!
QUESTION: is it true that many members of the LDS apologist group FAIRMormon have now renounced Joseph Smith and BOM after they studied the historical evidence????????
Probably but many have not as well.
@@spideyN8R THINK ABOUT IT. An intelligent faithful mormon raised in the church looks at the actual historic evidence and then conclude Joseph Smith is a fraud! PLEASE for the sake of your own soul, look at the historic evidence, and then cry out to the Jesus of the Bible for help!
Based if true
Welcome back, Kwaku 😊
@@lukev483 Why would he need to repent for saying something true?
And we don't circle the wagons....
@@lukev483 McConkie's grandson isn't the lord's annointed.
Ha! My 1st and 2nd great grandmothers were good Methodists in Tasmania, Australia, when they heard the Restored Gospel and were baptized!
Josh did a fantastic job, of explaining the beauty and simplicity of the Book of Mormon. The LDS members did not really appreciate the depth of this message. It's unfortunate that the Mormons quickly turned the conversation away from the beauty and simplicity of the Gospel in the BOM to a dialogue of how everyone persecutes the LDS.
Most of the Christians here today are not interested in "persecuting' mormons. It is more a case that mormons are asserting truth claims that do not hold up under historic and anthropologic and biblical analysis. The mormon truth claims are false and are leading people into darkness.
The BOM is a different gospel. A different God and a different Jesus. Not Christian and LDS are not saved.
@Holiday-Music and here we have a perfect example of "opinion from ignorance"...
You’re literally proving your unbiblical and Antichrist. The false gospel is what Moroni brought. It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
@@TheRegimentalscot You’re literally proving your unbiblical and Antichrist. The false gospel is what Moroni brought. It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
Btw, I haven’t even read the whole Book of Mormon but was pleasantly surprised to find verses about being saved by grace ❤
The BOM is heresy and blasphemy
I want to hear Kwaku’s take on the Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist.
The doctrines of the LDS are exactly the same gospel that Jesus taught, but definitely NOT the same gospel as that which the "Evangelicals" teach. Evangelicals know almost nothing about the true gospel. They don't even know the basic truths, like the fact that they are the literal children of God.
Show the biblical verse that teaches we are the literal children of God. Don't quote me no Joseph Smith or the book of Mormon. Since they are the same message from the Bible you should be able to demonstrate this in the Bible. Please just the verse not your interpretation. Thank you
Then why does the Bible talk about being adopted as a child of God. How do you adopt a child that is already yours?
@@Eagle_Powersfirst, love the Nacho Libre icon. My thoughts on your question: God does not force us into covenant relationship with Him. We have the agency to choose our masters - or the God we will serve and follow. I feel that when we choose to enter into that covenant relationship with God, starting with baptism by proper authority, we are being adopted back into his family - where otherwise we are metaphorical orphans.
@@cldrawings1224how about Romans 8: 16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
@@mycatwould the verse before states spirit of adoption, it refers to us being children by adoption. That is in line with other passages from Paul.
It doesn't say literal children or even insinuates that.
What you stated to CTR Jesus, is your interpretation based on Mormon theology, the text doesn't even come close to stating that.
I asked for a verse that states we were always literal children of God.
Poor BK Durbin, he never gets it HIS WAY.
Love seeing your videos! Hope you guys are well!
Wow Josh and Brad really brought it tonight.
Kris Murphy dumped in his pants, he had to go home and change them.
NINETEEN THOUSAND SUBSCRIBERS 🥳🎉 💥 💣💥 🎉🥳 🧨 🎉🔥🎉
Most holy rollers think they know the gospel.......most. but they have very little truth. They do the best with what they have. They just don't know other gospels, meaning other scripture that tells the same truth.
You’re literally proving your unbiblical and Antichrist. The false gospel is what Moroni brought. It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
Kwaku is back!! 👊🏽👊🏽👊🏿
I just love this channel and your conversations! Very helpful
Thanks, Sister Ingram!
You’re literally proving your unbiblical and Antichrist. The false gospel is what Moroni brought. It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
13:40 Hosannah!
David Alexander is humble sincere and honest. He is joyful. And he has the modern priestcraft figured out.
READ Joseph Smith's DC132 prophecy where he says the RESTORED GOSPEL requires you to commit polygamy to enter the highest heaven. SICK SICK SICK
It’s not that you HAVE TO live the law of plural marriage - but be willing to. Like the Abrahamic test of slaying his own son. There was a commandment not to murder - yet he was commanded to kill his own son. Both Abraham and Isaac were willing to obey, though it likely broke their hearts - and this was seen as righteousness. Many of the ancient prophets were given multiple wives by God which were righteousness before him, but those not given by God (like Bathsheba), were seen as a sin before God.
Even in the early days of the church when plural marriage was taught, it was one of the hardest things these saints had to do - and nobody was forced to live it, but were directed to pray to understand for themselves after being taught the principle. Once they accepted it, and lived it, most saw it as a beautiful thing, and when the time came to end the practice, it was equally as hard for these families to be broken up.
I don’t get it, and I don’t believe anyone will be forced to live in a plural marriage in order to obtain the highest kingdom of glory - but we are required to enter into a covenant relationship with God and our spouse through a sealing ordinance so that our marriage relationship will continue beyond this life, and like God, be able to continue to create - something no man can do alone.
@@mycatwould Were you raised in the LDS church? Is there a possibility you are brainwashed?
I like this fella,maybe I should look into these Bickertonites
The people who say our Gospel is a “different Gospel” probably have never read more than 3 verses from the Book of Mormon
It is more a case of, we have studied the mormon history. And so have a ton of people leaving mormonism, as you full well know.
@@MaryLeonard-mj9ng 20+ mainstream Christians join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for every one person who leaves the church and joins mainstream Christianity.
@@ItsSnagret That is a lie.I can tell you just from the wards in my area, mormons are dwindling as they see the true mormon history on the internet. The Swedish Rescue was just the tip of the iceburg.
Your source is not a valid stance if it is the point of contention. Bring proof from other sources and make your case.
@@taylorcleblanc Might want to read the Salt Lake Tribune?
”Utah’s growth of about 34,000 members represents the majority of the church’s 42,000-member growth in America overall over the past two years.”
Did you get that? US membership growth outside of Utah has been just 4,000 members per year for the past two years. With 6 million US Mormons, that’s an annual growth rate of about .06%. However, that’s basically equates to a NEGATIVE growth rate when you factor in deaths and inactive members and those outright leaving the church!
WAIT, can we just all agree that polygamy was taught by Joseph Smith as part of the RESTORED GOSPEL in DC132 in order for women to get to the highest heaven?!?!?!?!?
Not really. Eternal marriage is almost always monogamous, but might be polygamous for some if they were living in one of the few outlier times when the Lord allowed polygamy. Both situations can occur.
@@JD-pr1et Joseph COMMANED polygamy in DC132 in order to reach the highest heaven. BUT somehow the U.S. President threatening to send an army to utah caused god to change his mind.
@@MaryLeonard-mj9ngfor the temporal welfare of His church, God revealed that it was no longer prudent to continue plural marriage at this time. We believe in being subject to our governing bodies - and in this case it was necessary to discontinue plural marriage as the government would otherwise not allow Utah statehood, and was seizing property owned by the church.
@@MaryLeonard-mj9ng Oh my goodness! Are you THAT ignorant of history and scripture?
First, the Lord told Joseph about eternal marriage being necessary for eternal life and exaltation. He also revealed the restoration of polygamy for a time. If you actually read the scriptures, you would ee that those are two separate topics.
Second, Joseph was murdered by the antichrists way before the end of polygamy.
Third, the government did send an army to the Utah territory in the days of Brigham Young after false reports from the antichrists about the Saints rebelling against the government made their way to Washington, DC. Polygamy did not stop as the Lord had not commanded that yet.
By the time Wilford Woodruff received the revelation to cease the practice of polygamy, the government had been imprisoning Church members taking money and assets and other harassment for about 25 years. A law prohibiting polygamy was finally passed towards the latter quarter of that period. Wilford's own writing noted that he would have continued the practice despite all the harassment and pressure had not the Lord not commanded the stop of the practice when He did.
Boy 25 years sounds like caving in to a single event, doesn't it? 🤣
Too bad that real history doesn't match the antichrist fantasy land.
Please learn history and scripture before making uneducated, stupid comments by just parroting the antichrist talking points tripe.
@@mycatwould THAT is the difference between the god mormons follow that the one true Christians follow. Our God doesn't back down to a any king or pharoh or U.S. president.
Arizonan here, the Florida of the west…I’m dying 😂😂
Great episode...
I'll tell you a verse that is in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon,
"Now it shall come to pass in the latter-days that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established on the top of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills and all nations shall flow to it."
Oh yeah, Sugar Britches!!! Oh yeah!!!!
How is this a slam dunk in any way? Joseph Smith had access to a Bible, he could've simply copied it into the Book of Mormon.
@@jmut714 funny how the critics used to know that Joseph Smith would not have been able to write that book so they came up with all of these theories about who really wrote it, but when they found out nobody else did they had to flip it 180 and say he is some genius. lol. Critics were right in the beginning. Joseph could not have written this off the top of his head. And that is because it is true and he translated it through the power of God.
@@lootingiv4058 It doesn't take a genius to write a book. Especially when it's heavily inspired by several other texts. What are you on about?
@@jmut714 alright,
Write a history of ancient Tiber covering a period from 600 BC to AD 450. Why ancient Tibet? because you know no more about Tibet than Joseph Smith (or anyone else in the 1820s) knew about ancient America.
There is to be no research of any kind.
Your history must be 531 pages and more than 300,000 words in length.
other than some grammatical corrections, and a few other minor changes, you must make no modifications in the text. The first edition, as you DICTATE it to your secretary must stand forever.
No notes or looking back on what you previously said
You must change your style of writing many times to represent various authors.
Subsequent archeological discoveries must support the truth of the objects, events, and names you refer to.
You must invent about 280 new names of people and places that will stand up under scrutiny through the years as to their proper application and derivation.
Thousands of great men, intellectual giants, national and international personalities, and scholars must accept your history and its teachings as true.
Tens of thousands of salespersons (i.e., missionaries) must give eighteen months or more of their lives, paying their own expenses and bearing witness of the truth of this book.
You must finish writing this book in sixty-five working days or fewer.
Then we can talk.
@@lootingiv4058 Talk to me when archeological discoveries support the BOM. Or when you can explain why many of the names in the BOM resemble names found around the time and place of Joseph Smith.
Hillsdale College explains the reason for creeds:
Early Christians relied on creeds to spread the faith because (blank).
most of the population was illiterate
(blank) was developed by followers who were taught by the apostles, and it became the rule of faith for early Christians.
The Apostles' Creed
You guys should check out Hello Saints podcast!
Ok, done for now! 😊
Bros love the show I converted from Catholicism but recently I have been studying deeper into Catholicism and have actually reconverted to Catholicism unless someone can prove the great apostasy actually was a full removal of the priesthood... the thing is when Paul said that about an angel preaching a different gospel, he meant different than the faith passed on by the apostles... main one being Christ truly and physically present in the Eucharist... until the 1500s everyone believed this truth.. the protestants came with a new Gospel saying that the bread and wine are merely symbols... so technically both LDS and protestantsare preaching a different gospel.. from John 6 to Polycarp to Ignatius to Francis we have written documents proving this belief has not been lost until the reformation. Then Joseph Smith adopted the symbolism instead of restoring us back to belief His flesh is food indeed and his blood is drink indeed
BTW was gonna give you guys free music to use but I never got an email back
Every year Jesus and the apostles had a lamb to eat on passover but the last night there was no lamb on the table and he said eat me I am the new passover lamb. I am the bread of life. Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you. This is why we can't partake unworthily... you can't be unworthy of bread but if it is His Flesh an Blood we best examine ourselves prior to. This is the Gospel this how he abides in us and we in Him. The BOM omits the importance by not mentioning why we take the sacrament therefore if one only had it one would be missing the fullness of the Gospel... Sola Scriptura is a heresy invented by protestants... the new testament letters was written to Catholic churches already established that held to the traditions passed to them by the apostles so we must have the tradition to interpret correctly. Whether by word or letter...
They can leave the Church, they just can't leave it alone.
@wes2176 Didn't say I left and I am not nor will I ever start bashing the Church.. I'm just reinvstigating the claim of the full apostasy.. completely agree there was a falling away ever since Martin Luther... and to my astonishment there are literally writings from the early church fathers that are clear and nowhere is there a mention of apostasy but there is much said about people denying the real precense... but I haven't left
@@wes2176 unless all the writings are fake that is a possibility but if that's the case ... we can't trust anything
I try to watch this channel but get so tired of the main guy doing his yelling and over the top reactions and impersonations. He over talks the other guys and it’s just exhausting. Also, too many screen switches to the payment methods and himself.
It is ALL just hipster smoke and mirrors. Mormons, especially the young ones, are leaving the LSD church as they read the historical evidence online. WAR RADIO is just trying to slow down the exodus, but they don't realize how NUTSO they sound, to the degree that I have mormon friends that have left moronism after seeing some of their episodes.
It’s the wheat being separated from the tares. It has long been prophesied that in the last days, even the very elect will be deceived. The church is growing quite healthy, but those not willing to do the work to gain their own testimony will not be spiritually strong enough to withstand the challenges of the last days (roughly quoting Pres Nelson). When we see our friends and family leave, it breaks our hearts, but it does not shock us, as we knew this would happen in the last days, and knew it would affect many of us.
@@mycatwould Funny Jesus says I am in the palm of His hand and no one can snatch me from him. Meanwhile you say I need to starting jogging onthe mormon treadmill of ceremonies and obedience to mormon authorities.
I’m not Mormon - but I’m impressed with your boots on the ground apologetics - you’re muuuuch better at this than say Jehovah’s Witness or 7th day adventists which always get lumped in together with you
It is not the same gospel because it is not the same god. The God of Israel and the Christians isn't going to reinstitute the Old Testament rituals and sinful polygamy. Mormons are following a deceptive spirit right into hell.
If I were you, I'd pissed too. Your pastor spends more time talking about Mormons than about Jesus right? what a shame. It's like those times I attended sermons with my friend who was part of an Evangelical church. The pastor spent an entire sermon bashing Jehovah Witnesses lol and I was like "when are you going to talk about Jesus?" No wonder his congregation only had about 20 people in it and not 200.
@@GwPoKo in 30 years I have never heard a pastor mention mormons. I think it is assumed they are just strange cult people that no one in their right mind would follow, as evidenced by the mormon numbers DROPPING as people read the truth on the internet.
I 100% agree with Kwaku. Jeff Durbin has no light in his eyes. I've been saying this for about a year and it's nice to finally hear that someone sees the same thing.
Man looks on the outer appearance, God looks at the heart ❤️
@@GrandmaKnightLife yes and that's why we've been given eyes to see and ears to hear. I don't know the desires of his heart but I hear his words and see the way his eyes go blank when he's falsely quoting The Book of Mormon while refusing to open it.
@@tonymason9855again you can't see the heart and only God can. Samuel didn't think David would be king! And he was a prophet.
@@cldrawings1224 ok so Jeff Durbin is like David? Did David ever blatantly misquote scripture and refuse to open the book he's doing it from? I don't need to see his heart to know I shouldn't follow him when he misleads people and gets paid while doing it.
@@tonymason9855 so how did you come to that conclusion, that I was saying Jeff is like David? Lool, if that is how you understand the statement, I am concerned about your interpretation of scripture.
My point was just like Samuel is a man and can't see the heart of the person, neither can you see the heart of Jeff by looking at his eyes! Only God can.
It's not hard to understand that. No wonder why you think Jeff mishandles scripture.
Jesus doesn't kill anyone in the new testament...
It is a different gospel and the LDS church is blasphemous.
Yet you have not one text from the Book of Mormon that proves your point. Illiteracy does not win debates.
@@suem6004 Sure I can. The entire book is demonic.
@@suem6004 The entire Book of Mormon is satanic
Ever thought that God and Jesus being two seperate dudes is not in the Bible.. you better read Hebrew 1:1-9
Hebrews 1:2 God appointed Jesus heir of all things, by whom he made the worlds
Hebrews 1:3 Jesus being in the brightness of Gods glory, and the express image of Gods PERSON
Hebrews 1:4 Jesus BEING MADE so much better than the angel
Hebrews 1:9 Jesus loved rightousness, and hated iniquitty, THEREFORE God had anointed Jesus above OTHER FELLOWS
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The Trinity is the most unbiblical doctrine ever
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THE MORMON GOSPEL IS in a single sentence????? What are ALL the things I need to do to go to the highest heaven???
In the bible Jesus said I just have to trust in my heart that he loved me enough to pay my debt on the cross, and then follow him as the one and ONLY true LORD of all....... THAT IS IT! But what do mormons believe?
Ill do u one better one word "Marriage"
@@six1nyne Do I just have to be married, or do I have to be married in a mormon temple?
Josh spells out the 6 points of the gospel (Christ's gospel, not the evangelical gospel or the Mormon gospel or any other breakdown, just THE gospel) towards the beginning of the video. Anything beyond those six points, by any sect or faith group, are only appendages to THE gospel. Start there.
@@howardkenneth5569 your body is a temple don't u know that and the spirit of God dwells in u. Just marry the bride groom and don't worry about the man behind the curtain
@@DannyAGray Seriously, can you just type them out for me? Why are they so hard to grasp? 6 points???!?!?! The Christian gospel is so simple a child could understand it.
Not trying to sound mean but I don’t think Mormons should speak on the Bible . BOM is another gospel.
@@lukev483Temples have always been a part of the Lord’s church. Wherever God’s people have been, they have built temples. This is also in the Book of Mormon. The covenants we make in the temples are of a sacred nature and are not described in scripture, but has been revealed to prophets through the dispensations old and modern.
Revelations 14:6 Speaks of an angel with an everlasting gospel which is clearly separate than what we have in the Bible today. The angel Moroni fulfilled this prophecy by revealing to Joseph Smith the gold plates which he translated into English by the gift and power of God.
The BOM is an abomination and false gospel.
@@jamesnielsen1220 The angel Moroni is ACTUALLY a fallen angel. The same angels that appeared to Joseph Smith. Who by the way was a practitioner of the occult, Eastern mysticism, Kabbalah etc. The LDS organization is an ABOMINATION. And unfortunately the LDS people have been living under a curse since it's inception. This is coming from someone who was raised LDS and is from Salt Lake City Utah.
How about Pastor Paul Washer? He teaches obedience and rips Evangelicals for the false teaching about the Sinners Prayer like no one else.
Interesting. Vids?
@@alejandrovalenzuela377 Google him if you dont believe me.
He sounds like he would hate The Chosen too
@@GwPoKo Not sure why you would think that. He simply preaches that if you are going to say "your saved" you need to "live like you are saved" (a new creature than you were before).
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many that enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14.
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
John 17:3
It’s a different gospel. A different God and a different Jesus. Not Christian and LDS are not saved.
Well, to some, the gospel, meaning "the good news" is only a good news, if its also a bad news to someone else... (Edit: Refering to the idea of some Evangelicals that their gospel sees all LDS ending up in hell).
Only the Restored Gospel preaches a God who has the desire, the capacity and the intent on saving absolutely every human soul who ever lived. THAT is the Good News.
@@WARDRADIO I actually agree, what I was refering to is the argumentation of many Evangelicals who claim that "Mormons are not Christians" for believing in a false gospel, defining "their good news" by it automatically being a bad news to all who are LDS..
In my view it even goes one step further, I think that with the Good Samaritian we see that Jesus called someone good that did not even believe in him, nor did he get all doctrine right, all he did was to show mercy, and so I think that in the end, God will not judge by religion, but by the amount of charity people have...
So, sorry if my comment got misunderstood, I am on your side ;)
Wait, actually that's super insightful! The Samaritan just did the will of the Father and that was what Christ was highlighting. He did believe in Christ. According to the Jews, that Samaritan was theologically heathen. This is a great point!
We are totally gonna steal this... thank you!
@@WARDRADIO You are very welcome to do so.. I always like to say, the Good Samaritian was kind of the first Mormon, and the Jews were the ones believing to believe in the "true Christ", the "true gospel" and still were the ones that betryed Jesus..
There is another insight I would give along, and that is that Paul in 1 Corinthians 13 says very clearly that though people have all knowledge and understanding, all faith to remove mountains, working mighty miracles, its all worth nothing without charity..
Now, Evangelicals always state that they love Mormons, but that Mormons are too much about Charity, and I think they just dont really understand what Charity is, for it is way more than just kindness, and there can never be enough of real charity.
But there is way more to it, actually.
Ask an evangelical how they truly know what they believe is true. And that is a really vital question for all of us, of course.
And I think there is only one way we can know for certain. .
Jesus told us clearly that we are to discern truth from erroe by the fruits it brings forth, menaing, once we taste of the "good fruit", we also know the tree (source of information) is good... So, what are these good fruits?
Paul made clear that it can be neither good works, neither the working of mighty miracles, neither faith to remove mountains, for all these are of no value without charity. But lets be real, even charity can be faked and pretended by people as an outer act...
So the way I understand this is that the only way we can know whether something is true, whether that be things from the outside like people (prophets), books (Bible etc), religions and even visions, dreams or near death experiences, or whether that be things from the inside like our Intuition, Emotion,. Reason, Experience or even judging things on its moral outcomes (sonce morals change depending on our surroundings etc), is by the amount of charity it brings forth WITHIN US..
In that sense, everything that inspries so to become more patient, forgiving, kind, gentle, standing for truth, embracing and loving truth no matter where it comes from, being less judgemental etc, is of God..
... and this, to me is excactly what the Good Samaritian is telling us, God will judge us on our inner state, on our heart, on how much mercy and charity we show towards others..
The fun thing is, for Evangelicals, all Mormons will end up in hell, even if they have charity, but yes, the God of the Old Testament, at the same time, was willing to save the whore Rahab from destrcution due to her faith and works... But Paul made clear that Charity stands above faith and hope, and so that leaves the question, what about people that have no faith, but that do have charity? Meanig, the whore Rahab got saved (in some sense) from destruction because of faith and works, but LDS will end up in hell even when having charity.
That faith means nothing without Charity is excactly what Paul was saying..
And so, sorry for the long response, but the only way we can truly discern spiritual truth from error, as I see it, is by the fruits it brings forth within each one of us-
It would be different if they said;"Hey guys, lets have a good discussion about our differences".. But many Evangelicals are so sure of them beig in possesion of that one and final truth, that it cuts them from embracing greater truths unfoldng along the way., even becoming judgemental about people that they know nothing about in regards to their amount of charity, still seeing them end up in hell --
So, that was what my original statement was about, for it seems their good news is only good as long as its bad for others, not understanding that even God himself stated in Timothy that "he wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth".
But well yes, thats at least one thing many Evangelicals are united in :)
Probably the most vital lesson I learned along my way is, the more wisdom and knowledge a person posesses, the more he will admidt to the fact that he does not know much at all, for he understands that only that kind of humility will prepare his heart and his mind to accept even greater truths, whilst the conviction to have already arrived at that one, final truth of things, would cut him from letting these truths into his life.
And thats what I love about Joseph Smith, he always invited us to seek out truth in all things...
Have fun guys, love your chanel
"The idea" of some Evangelicals? Do you mean those who can read the New Testament and find the numerous explicit references to hell by that guy named Jesus?
In the age of the internet, you can just research the history of the mormon church and listen to both sides. It won't take long to determine who is out of their friggin mind.
It is amazing how people get our beliefs wrong and say they know more about the things we believe than we do, even though they are our beliefs. Talk about being out of your mind.
@@spideyN8R The CES Letter is written by a former mormon raised in the church, who had legit historic questions that the LDS CES department refused to answer. There have even been FAIR Mormon and offical church scholars who have looked at the historic evidence and have concluded that Joseph Smith is a fraud.
The only people fighting the truth about mormon history are the people that haven't looked at it.
@@kendarcie6613 The CES Letter is all lies.
@@wes2176 Well, lies with some truths mixed in which is partly why it can more easily deceive.
@@spideyN8R How do people get your beliefs wrong? Joseph said in the D$C that god commanded polygamy in order to be exalted. That is sick, and did not come from God.
Kwaku, I’m from AZ, but the White Mountains of AZ. You should come visit. I think you will find a wonderful people.
Fom the get-go “the Book of Mormon matches what’s in the New Testament.”
Yup, to include known modern errors that shouldn’t be in there!
In the end, though Jesus never existed, and his words were never written down because he never said them.
OK, first an introduction: I'm a retired evangelical (BTW I'm Free Methodist) pastor. I spent nearly a year conversing with three sets of LDS missionaries and I am currently close friends with an LDS bishop. I don't know if you are trying to convert anyone - but your insults are not going to do it, neither will passing reference to Ehrman - who is also loved by Muslims. You might ask why he has not accepted the Book of Mormon? Simple, there is even less manuscript evidence than for the New Testament....... as in zero.
Now, for perspective let me be clear - evangelical theologians DO NOT contend that everyone in the past, or even all LDS, are lost. Furthermore, we are not saved by having all our theology correct (as important as that is), or by believing that the New Testament text is reliable, or IMHO, having the exact deity of Christ doctrine correct. We are saved by trusting the risen Christ for the forgiveness of our sins..... and I personally have met many LDS who are doing this. I have also met some LDS who are not, but the same can be said of many Protestants....
That said, you should consider this: Here’s what Ehrman says in an interview found in the appendix of Misquoting Jesus (p. 252):
"Bruce Metzger is one of the great scholars of modern times, and I dedicated the book to him because he was both my inspiration for going into textual criticism and the person who trained me in the field. I have nothing but respect and admiration for him. And even though we may disagree on important religious questions - he is a firmly committed Christian and I am not - we are in complete agreement on a number of very important historical and textual questions. If he and I were put in a room and asked to hammer out a consensus statement on what we think the original text of the New Testament probably looked like, there would be very few points of disagreement - maybe one or two dozen places out of many thousands. THE POSITION I ARGUE FOR IN ‘MISQUOTING JESUS’ DOES NOT ACTUALLY STAND AT ODDS WITH PROF. METZGER’S POSITION THAT THE ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN BELIEFS ARE NOT AFFECTED BY TEXTUAL VARIANTS IN THE MANUSCRIPT TRADITION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT."
So Ehrman essentially undercuts your use of his material......
Now I will give you this much: Ehrman contradicts Ehrman at this point - which is why I do not believe he can be trusted. I also find it ironic, that you might accuse me of "Priestcraft" - while completely overlooking the fact that Ehrman has made a huge amount of money with his popular book sales! He certainly has a conflict of interest when it comes to the NT. BTW, like many (actually most) pastors, I was working a outside the church most of the time - so I can relate to my LDS Bishop friend.....
Let me suggest to you that instead of attacking the New Testament reliability - which is a fools errand - you embrace it. Having read the entire Book of Mormon, I find little to nothing that does not agree with my faith. Which is why you are getting 3/4 of your converts from the evangelical church. The doctrinal material can be interpreted as agreeing with the NT. I think we all know that it is later "revelation" that begins to widen the theological gap between us.
Put another way, if you asked me to provide EVIDENCE for the Book of Mormon, I would start by providing evidence for the New Testament and then argue that since the Book of Mormon is theologically compatible, it is Scripture. That is not enough to convince me, but it is evidence.....
When Joseph Smith stated that there were significant errors in "translation" of the NT and OT texts, the number of Greek manuscripts available was tiny, compared to the mountain we have now - not to mention early translations and early quotations - which number in the tens of thousands - all of which confirm all but a tiny fraction of the NT text. Furthermore, any modern translation footnotes textual variants so the reader can know what they are (except for obvious spelling errors - which is what most of the variants are!). Of course, when it comes to the Old Testament, we now have the Dead Sea Scrolls.....
Another thing that I wonder if you are aware of is that Professor Stephen Robinson of BYU, who co-wrote "How Wide the Divide", and was an expert in ancient Scripture and languages, said that he would sign the Chicago Statement On Biblical Inerrancy, which takes a classic view of both New and Old Testament reliability. He was LDS and clearly DID NOT agree with Ehrman, or the position you seem to take in this video. I would give you the page number, but my LDS friend has my copy and sadly, it's out of print :(
IMHO How Wide The Divide is perhaps the best book in the last 40 year on the subject of LDS/Evangelical relations - if you can get a copy, it is worth a read.
Well, I have probably written more than most can or will read. May Our Lord Bless You!
Arizona is awesome. Come on now
Place all of your faith in the Bible, a book with giants and unicorns and witches and talking snakes and talking donkeys and huge seven-headed creatures rising out of the sea. Don't place your faith in the Book of Mormon, I mean, where are all those Nephites coins!!!!
The Arizona slander is just too much... but yeah, Tempe sucks
I'm in Phoenix and you got it all wrong Kwaku my ward is amazing. Love my city peeps!
Evangelicals, have you found those chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea?
14:30
and the actual fight started at the protestant reformation.
Kwaku, most of Arizona is the exact opposite of Scottsdale.
Exactly!
The CES letter lies lies lies!
@@howardedward5339The book claims the signatures of the eight witnesses are in Oliver Cowderys handwriting. Lies lies lies!
@@lukev483 You've heard them say it. Now, due to the fact that you refer to yourself as "Satan" the biggest liar the earth has ever seen, you will not admit it, however, I am referring to these guys; "Oh yeah, the Church is false, Joseph Smith was a con man, the signatures of the eight witnesses were in Oliver Cowderys handwriting!"
You've seen them all over RUclips, I don't care if you deny it. Those guys all, every single one of them, got that from the CES letter. They openly acknowledge it. And you know this, May-on!!!!
Lies lies LIES
Lucifer loves his lies.
@@lukev483 I notice you did not deny the dishonesty of you fellow Anti-Mormons. Perhaps you do have a bit of honesty deep down inside trying to come out.
11:35 - Almost slipped out there, 'Gospel of Pride' oopsie!
IT IS LITERALLY A DIFFERENT GOSPEL ! Just compare the words between the Christian gospel as found in Roman 10:9-11 and John 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15 to what the mormons say the gospel is. "YEAH, WE BELIEVE THOSE THINGS, BUT WE NEED THIS OTHER STUFF FROM THE MASONIC TEMPLE CEREMONIES, AND POLYGAMY AND blah, blah, blah
I love when there's a video presenting a case, and some dipshit comes in the comments sounding like he didn't even watch the video. Seriously stfu
come back to earth bro itll clear your head a bit
You are assuming that Hellenized Christianity of the 4th century and beyond was the original. That is always the assumption made. A good look at scripture and early Christian history notes that it is not. That knowledge helped me look for the Lord's true Church as I moved from Roman Catholicism to Evangelical Christianity to finding the Church of Jesus Christ. And if you had a clue about masonry and the temple, there is very little from masonry that made its way into the temple rites, but the pedagogical style of masonry. Most of what is in the temple can be seen is first temple Judaism and early Christian, scriptures, other writings, history, and iconography, but that is never told by the antichrist literature crowd. The simplistic lip confession and sinners prayer and "Jesus come into my heart, you are my Lord and Savior, so now I can get my magical "get out of hell free card" just aren't scriptural as you would know if actually knew the scriptures. For example, the word that Paul notes as faith has three components 1) knowledge of the object of faith, 2) mental assent to the object of faith, and 3) obedience to the object of faith. Faith for many Christians ends up as being only mere belief instead of scriptural faith. If you look at how John defines belief through all of his writings, he uses that as Paul uses faith, not modern "belief". Although everyone is saved by the atonement of Jesus Christ (or grace), the next verse of being made for works is ignored by most Evangelicals following a cheap grace route rather than what is in the scriptures. Grace in the New Testament is charis which is a reciprocal relationship of which both parties have specific duties towards each other within that relationship. In the early Church that was a covenental relationship. What we do and become is how we accept the atonement of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. No we do not earn our way to heaven. Only one person followed that path to salvation: Jesus Christ. However, thinking the members of the Church of Jesus Christ think they earn their way to heaven shows an ignorance of what is taught in the New Testament Church and its modern day Restoration.
In all 18 years growing up in the LDS church I was never taught about God’s grace. It very much was a earn your way to heaven teaching.
@@GrandmaKnightLife That is odd as I have heard that many times as we have studied the scriptures in Sunday school over that past 36 years since joining the Church of Jesus Christ.
There are two paths to salvation and exaltation noted in the scriptures. The first is through the law of justice where every commandant of God must be followed to attain that. Only Jesus Christ has done that. For everyone else, the law of mercy applies. That is for everyone that has sinned at least once (🤣), the atonement of Jesus Christ paid the price to cover those sins. What we do doesn't earn heaven, but is how we accept that atonement, by entering into a covenantal relationship with Him and obeying Him to think, do, and become like Him. The Greek word charis, translated as grace, denotes a reciprocal relationship and is tied to the patristic gift of that day and time. The giver of the gift always delineated the terms of how the gift could be accepted by what the receiver would do (I am unsure if you know anything about the Greek and Roman cultures and societies of that time.). In their society, the gift is freely given by the giver, but the receiver complied with the terms of the giver to accept that and obtain the favor, protection, or other blessing given by the giver. In other words, it is not a 20th or 21st century understanding of a gift. That is often not realized by most people. Hopefully, that helps
And join a real Bible-believing Bible-based church, not the Mormon one. Perhaps one where everyone throws snakes at each other, or one where some mad lunatic runs up and down the aisles healing people like a psychopath, or one where everyone rolls around on the ground speaking in tongues, or one where they dress in white sheets and burn crosses in people's front yards. You know, good ol Bible-believing folks!
Gimmie that ol time religion, gimmie that old time religion, gimmie that old time religion, it's good enough for me!
There is a great protestant scholar, Michael Briggs, who has done a thorough examination of the Gospel as laid out in the New Testament.
His book Salvation by Allegiance Alone lays it out along with a great argument that Faith is best understood as Loyalty.
Jesus pre-existed with the Father
He became incarnate and fulfilled the promise to David
He died for our sins according to the Scriptures
He was buried
He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
He appeared to many, showing he was raised from the dead
He is seated at God’s right hand as Lord and
He will come again as judge.
Kwaku, come to east Mesa. It’s cool over here, nothing like the hoity toity Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall :-)
18:45 nice
In Galatians 1 Paul went on to certify and IDENTIFY the gospel that he taught:
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is ****NOT AFTER MAN****.
12 For I neither received it OF MAN, neither was I taught it, but by the REVELATION of Jesus Christ. --Galatians 1
So ironically Galatians 1 actually supports Mormonism as the same gospel that Paul taught. Why? Because both were given by revelation and not by men with no revelation teaching their traditions.
Today there are multitudes of persons who admit they have no revelation teaching divergent traditions of what Paul taught. How can anyone tell which one is teaching the correct tradition?
But when revelation is given, and an open hearted person who is ready is given a spiritual witness of the revelation, then it makes perfect sense to trust revelation from God over tradition taught by men with no revelation.
If you want to understand the real origins of the Protestant reform, you must read the true story of « CASTELLO AGAINST CALVIN » This account was cancelled
For over 500 years! I thought I knew a lot about the reform, but this really opened my eyes and is also sadly pertinent for what is happening in our society today. Beautifully written by Stefan Zweig, a Jewish historian who saw the writing on the wall and fled Germany just before Hitler came I to full power. Meaningful read.
Germany
You can find all of Philippians 2 in the Book of Mormon. It's an interesting exercise to mark a verse to verse comparison.
Anyone who thinks it's a slander to call someone else an "Apologist" doesn't understand the word.
Apologists are responsible for the public perception that an apologist is a paid Yes Man who would rather jump off a cliff than ever admit his religion was ever wrong about anything.
Which Arizonan hurt Kwaku? We're not all that bad.
Joel O'Steen looks like Martin Short impersonating Tim Allen.
I have not laughed so hard in weeks. That is perfect!!!
I immediately googled this guy, after Brad said that, and he was spot on😂
Does the Book of Mormon teach the gospel of the Kingdom of God?
I am confident that I can change some of Kwaku's opinions about people residing in AZ.
Is it really true that Joseph Smith said that to get the highest heaven in the RESTORED GOSPEL that you HAVE to be married in the mormon temple??? AAAAH, is that why he instituted polygamy??? I thought he just wanted to sow his 30 year old wild oats! NOW I GET IT.
What a lot of people conviently don't mention about this is that there was a lot more women in the church than there was men. Most of the womens husbands were not members of the church so thus why Joseph married them for eternity, not time and eternity, just eternity.
Interesting that Ravi Zacharias was caught with 200 whores on his phone in 2020. So, your version of bible is to accrue as many extra marital affairs as possible while faking the gospel. No way
I have no idea what denomination these guys fall into, but I really like the guys at Bible Project, and the messianic Jews at So Be It 24:30
Y’all need to come to the EAST side of the PHX valley in AZ - it’s literally the best!!! Don’t hate on us ALL, okay?! 😂😂
Did you know that Hyrum Smith went to college prep school from 1811 to 1815 on the Dartmouth college campus? Did you know that Joseph Smith's relative was a theology professor at Dartmouth from 1775 to 1804, named John Smith? Did you know that Professor John Smith's writings are virtually identical to mormon doctrines? Did you know that Professor John Smith taught Ethan Smith who wrote the View of the Hebrews in 1823? Did you know that Ethan Smith was the pastor of Oliver Cowdery's family? Did you know that View of thet Hebrews has many similarties with the BOM? Did you know Dartmouth College was only 5 miles away from where the Smith's lived?
Haha what a joke.
@@suem6004 If moronism weren't so eternally deadly, I would laugh also.
What are these pre-pauline texts that Paul quotes??
20:23 yeah you're right cardon. Protestant Christianity is just a popularity contest 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Just listen to David Alexanders episodes where he answers letters and comments. One lady discovered the church David was a pastor of and said his church was always considered a cult and not Christian 😂. It's a popularity contest.
"You're NOT Christians!!!"
"You're right. We're Samaritans... the BEST Samaritans."😊
@@lukev483 You're new name is Sticky Fingers Johnson. Fricking perv.
Pride goeth before the fall.
@@jmut714 Righto. Glad you agree with me that there is nothing more prideful than playing God by denying the Christianity of Christians. Sad that they must fall, but better to disarm such error with the humble use of a bit of time tested humor. 😆 ❤️
The proof within the argument of this not being another gospel cannot be the other gospel. An argument from authority is pointless if one does not believe the source.
Thank you for, quite literally, rejecting any author of the Bible not named Paul. That is the only way your point lands without being completely anachronistic to the New Testament compilation.
I have an inspired response to these things
Yes, people often throw Gal. 1:8 at us and say that Moroni must be a false angel and therefore our doctrine is demonically inspired, etc etc, justifying the way they tend to treat us.
Moroni 7:17 reads: But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
This right there is the description of a false gospel. Any idea that is pushed that tells people they don't need to rely on Christ for salvation is a false gospel...that is very clearly not our gospel. The verse before, 16, describes the correct gospel and is perfectly in-line with what we practice and preach.
What Paul was essentially saying was, 'Guys, I don't care if I come there and tell you the exact opposite of what I've told you before, I don't care if an angel appears to you and tells you something different...if it tells you not to rely on Christ, reject it, it is not true'...which is supported by the Book of Mormon.
To go even further, the ENTIRETY of Alma 30 is about a false angel preaching a false gospel and the consequences that came from allowing it to influence people. It's an ineffective, lazy way to try to tear down the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Gospel is the best thing in my life and I've never been happier. I have hope, and I know what we have is true. This is the Kingdom of God on the earth and it will stand forever. I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
The bible came 2000 years before the BOM. Lies often are mixed with truth. Galatians 1 warn of false prophets. Can you really blame Christians for wanting to evaluate if Joseph Smith is speaking the truth when he says god commaned him to have sex with other women when married to Emma?
@@MaryLeonard-mj9ngfind a credible source that there were any sexual relationships with Joseph and anyone but Emma. No children ever came from any other plural wife. The early instructions for plural marriage was not to collect trophies in marriage and sexual partners - it was as an Abrahamic test of obedience and to raise up a righteous people. Again, it happened. I am a product of an early plural marriage from the 1800’s myself - and m grandparents kept great records, none which indicates anything but a loving family relationship.
I don't think "messianical" is a word. Messianic on the other hand is a word.
Galatians 1 shows that God knew that the Gospel would never be lost in the first place. Jesus is the restoration, not Joseph Smith.
Actually, that is not true. The silly if an angel from heaven thing noted by the antichrist literature crowd just is wrong on so many levels. First, an angel from heaven would not bring a message different than from what was taught by the early apostles. Paul is speaking in hyperbole. What is assumed here is that the Hellenized additions and changes to the original gospel from the 4th century onwards was the original. A good study of history and scripture digging into the language and culture notes otherwise. Then we run into Daniel's noting of the kingdoms of the world and the kingdom of God in Nebuchadnezzar's dream where it is noted in the days of the kings that have come from the old Roman Empire that God would set up a kingdom that would grow until it fills the Earth. If God has to set up a kingdom in the days of those kings, then the kingdom of God is not on the earth at that time. In other words, a restoration, as we know Christ set up the kingdom (also known as the Church) in the days of the legs of iron, or the Roman Empire. That is not the setting up of the kingdom in the last days as noted by Daniel by his noted timeline. Also, in the Book of Revelation, an angel is to preach the everlasting Gospel to the inhabitants of the Earth in the last days. As anyone with a cursory knowledge of the scriptures knows, angels (or heavenly messengers) are only used in giving those messages when there is no human being in the area that can give those directions from heaven. If the Gospel has to be brought to Earth by an angel in the last days, then no person on Earth has the Gospel at that time. This notes both an apostasy of the original Church and a last days restoration. Paul also speaks of the apostasy of the Church in Thessalonians and other scriptures and the early history of the Church, post-New Testament has many references to how the Church will not survive. It is a time consuming but worthwhile study.
@@JD-pr1etwell-said!
Brother/Sister Gateway, the fact that the author of Galatians is writing what they wrote is indicative of just how quickly the converts started straying from the truth.