I found you locally through FB marketplace, your videos have been extremely helpful in figuring out how I'm gonna design my system. Looking forward to buying some panels from you.
Very cool. Glad they have been of some use! I’ve got grid tie inverters in stock and I am a reseller for the eg4 line of inverters and batteries if you need something along those lines.
Great overview! I have an SMA 5000W string inverter and 16 Tigo TS4-F MLPE to comply with rapid shutdown. It's fun to go out and flip that RSD switch to see the inverter behavior- that array voltage goes from 400 to 0 volts in seconds!
Thank you! Took me a lot of research to find the right solution for my install so I wanted to share what it looked like installed. I was surprised at the affordability, many times something like this would make the micro inverter solution win.
@@BeeneEnergy I'm not seeing a Dual Input version of the AO 🤔 it would be nise to put 2 460 Birasials on a single Optimizer/Module.... You think they would be able to make something inline and small as an Emporia Smart Plug atleast for monitoring.
Man I like these last few entries you had man. I am currently shopping for a home solar system and I was hesitant to get 2 smaller inverters as opposed to 1 large one. Now seeing it i action makes more sense. I had no idea about the regulations though I will have to check my area
I'm adding a 15 panel 6KW array to the roof above my garage, and have the panels, disconnects, inverters, battery bank, conduit, etc. The one part that I'm still missing my plan for Rapid Shutdown. Recently my county went from 2014 NEC to 2017, so now I'm supposed to go with a module level shutdown, but I don't know that I'm going to get it formally inspected anyhow, so I don't suppose it matters, however I do want everything to be safe. I was wondering if you've compared the TIGO solution to the IMO Fire Raptor option? Not a lot of content out there on the Fire Raptors. Great Channel BTW!
@@BeeneEnergy After doing a fair amount of research on both, I'm leaning towards the TIGO solution, just because it can do optimization and monitoring. I'm thinking of just going with the TS4-A-0 model that has all options since it's just 15 panels and the cost isn't crazy. I'm just not certain of the other components that I need. If I get the CCA and TAP, do you know if I also need the RSS transmitter that you mentioned in your video? From what I gather, I should just be good with the CCA and TAP - still need to read through the whole manual though. Essentially I just want to have a setup where they can press the big red botton near the meter and turn off the panels. My set up will technically be off-grid, since it'll just be powering select loads in my house, so I don't believe that the requirement is there to also turn off the inverters via the red button.
Hi Beene, Why do you need an "inverter" in the loop for the TS4s to work and turn On/OFF the string output? Can't you just use a Voltmeter instead of an inverter to look at the voltage at the output of the string and test the functionality of your TS4 RSDs? I've tried to power up the Tigo transmitter with a 12v dc adaptor and see if it can turn ON/Off the TS4s but I found the string output was just sitting at 0.6v per TS4 module and the modules not turned ON even when the transmitter is sending the Keep-alive signal in. I can't see how/why the TS4 must need an inverter in the loop to work. Thanks for making this video, you explained it really well.
Great video, I really appreciate you producing this and providing all of this detail. I have a couple questions about your setup since it is so similar to what I’m working on. I have 18 450w bi facials in Wisconsin and two h6 inverters. I am planning to run them in two strings of just over 400v / 4000w each. From what I understand each mppt input can handle up to 4.5kw and is most efficient around 400v. Why did you decide on 4 strings vs 2 at higher voltage? Do you also need a utility service disconnect to satisfy your provider or do you think the RSS will suffice. If mine wants a disconnect at the meter, I suspect that would serve the RaPid shutdown needs as well since the transmitter would lose power and open the circuits?
The four strings instead of two was a miscommunication between me and the person doing the plans. I’ll combine to have longer strings later when I add panels. That way it frees up a pair of wires I can use to get another set of panels to the inverters. My utility specifically stated they wanted an ac disconnect by the meter. I gave them documentation and drawings showing how the rapid shutdown works and they approved it. Ymmv for sure. My rapid shutdown breaker is in my breaker panel so it wouldn’t lose power if I disconnected my inverters. I’m sure there’s a way to wire it so the ac disconnect also triggers rapid shutdown though. Thanks for watching, glad it helped in some way!
@@BeeneEnergy Ahh, I wasn't sure if you were trying to avoid overdriving the MMPTs, that's been my concern. I still am not sure if running two inverters is the way to go, or just the one ( keeping the other as a backup) because I have a feeling I will almost never be nearing the full 6kw, and running one might be more efficient. How close to your panel ratings does your output typically come? Have you come up with any software means of graphing output or just the LCDs on the inverters? I saw in the eBay listing, but not on their website, that Signature Solar has a stark warning about not driving it at or over 6KW or risk significantly reducing its lifespan. That suggests they had at least a few die on customers and that was their assessment. But the manual made it sound like up to 9KW of solar would be ok. I guess we'll see. After watching your other more thorough system overview, I found the answer to my other question, that's cool they were ok with the DC disconnect as I'm sure having to run another disconnect for AC would have been a drag. But you took the whole rapid shut down mandate with stride. I already bought most of my parts and thought I was almost ready to install before I found out about it. At first it felt like a major setback, but ultimately I guess it could be worse. Your attitude helped me see past it and consider the upside. If you don't mind me asking, who did you have prepare your plans? ( Sorry if you mentioned in the video, I didn't catch it ). ( It was cool to see your reply and that your still active, I'm subscribed and looking forward to see how things progress )
@@sjetmand Wow I hadn’t seen their comment about not over paneling. That’s disappointing! I see about 75% of my 8.4kw array in the hot summer. That’s spread across both inverters of course. Don’t know what the cool sunny months will provide yet. With the warning you pointed out maybe I won’t over panel like I had planned. Might add another 3-4kw and be done. It will be a west facing array so that should prevent peak generation too. I use the sense energy monitor with solar CT’s to see my data. I’ll put a post up here on RUclips showing what the interface looks like. I’m happy with it, just another few hundred to spend :).
I am a newbie and have a couple questions so bear with me. The solar pv ac disconnects, is it wired from the inverter to it and then to the electricity wires from the meter? also the tigo system is wired to your ac disconnect box or your dc disconnect box? I know they maybe dumb questions but please bear with me. Thanks
No worries. I need to walk through the entire setup so you can see how each piece is wired in. So there are two knobs on the inverter. Left knob is dc disconnect which kills panel to inverter connection. This is redundant to the rapid shutdown. Knob on the right is actually just a bypass for any ac devices in a critical loads panel. So for this setup it’s useless. The tigo system is in my dc box. It does have ac running to the power supply but that’s the only ac running into that dc box between the inverters.
if you have a outdoor circuit breaker before the pv ac disconnect from the meter (wires running from meter to circuit breaker then there is a pv solar ac disconnect panel is the wires from the line going directly to the main panel inside ?
I don’t quite understand but I’ll explain and you can tell me if that answers it. Inverter ac lines run directly to the breaker panel in my utility closet. They do not run outside to the disconnect switch. My only ac side disconnect is the breakers in the panel. The switch out by the meter turns off the power supply that runs the tigo rapid shutdown piece.
@@BeeneEnergy Thanks for replying... Here in Indiana...they will nickel and dime you to death with regulations, etc. We here suspect they have a cozy relationship with the grid people..so make it as difficult as they can for homeowners. I plan to install my whole system using a mobile method for just that reason.. I mean.. I can just pull my van up to the house and plug the house in..yes? lol.. independently..not to the grid panel.. I of course still plan a safe setup regardless though,, not to mention I can move it to follow the sun..and of course be ready if I have to escape when the SHTF.. your advise is excellent and we all appreciate your efforts :o)
Please consider holding a discussion on the pros & cons of combining LiFePO4 batteries with Lead batteries. A lot of people with existing Lead Acid battery banks may not want to discard their investment in Lead batteires - but they may want to upgrade and start using LiFePO4 ... It can be done (under very controlled conditions - if the LiFePO4 is set up as the primary and the voltage level is held at 14.0 V - in both the Lithium and the lead battery banks ) the real trouble issues are preventing the Lead from degrading the LiFePO4 and It is my opinion that this can be done with a good low voltage shut - off in line between the LiFePO4 system and the Lead acid battery system.
That's a hard one. Sounds like you have a fairly good handle on it and I agree the big problem is the resting voltage. Lead Acid will be 12.6-12.8v maybe and LiFePo4 will be up at 13.5-14v. While charging I think everything would be fine. But constantly connecting and disconnecting battery banks sounds like a challenge for relays and an arduino as I don't know that there would be anything off the shelf.
@@BeeneEnergy I was think that by using the LiFePO4 as the primary bank - and charging it & keeping them both at or above 13.2 would work pretty well. A good low voltage cutoff between the two systems that activates when the lead falls below 12 volts. should prevent damage to the LiFePO4 ...
@@BeeneEnergy I have done a bit more thinking about this and I don;t think it is too wise to try and combine Lead acid batteries and LiFePO4 on the DC side (too many problems ) - but I think that it may be just fine to combine them on the AC side.
@@smde1 I don’t know why I hadn’t thought of ac coupling. If I had a lead acid 48v I could run one growatt with its own set of panels on that bank and another growatt with the lithium. I think the problem then would be battery banks that are independent, and controlling which inverter is providing the energy as you’d want to balance it so the batteries deplete somewhat evenly.
@@BeeneEnergy It seems much more manageable than trying to combine the Battery banks on the DC side with different chemistry / resting voltages, etc. The easiest would be to use the LiFePO4 for high demand-use things like AC, refrigerators, garage appliances-shop tools. while using the Lead Acid for lights, water heater, etc and other things that are not so high-demand.
I've looked at the birdhouse, but with the TIGO system all I need is an AC switch. So for now this will do great. Thanks! Of course we'll see what the inspector says when they come out!
What did the inspector think? I’m working on a system now. Going to use a 3 phase fusable disconnect to kill the inverter to grid. As well as kill the power to make the Tigo go dark. Kill two with one switch. Crazy?
I found you locally through FB marketplace, your videos have been extremely helpful in figuring out how I'm gonna design my system. Looking forward to buying some panels from you.
Very cool. Glad they have been of some use! I’ve got grid tie inverters in stock and I am a reseller for the eg4 line of inverters and batteries if you need something along those lines.
Great video.
Great overview! I have an SMA 5000W string inverter and 16 Tigo TS4-F MLPE to comply with rapid shutdown. It's fun to go out and flip that RSD switch to see the inverter behavior- that array voltage goes from 400 to 0 volts in seconds!
Thank you! Took me a lot of research to find the right solution for my install so I wanted to share what it looked like installed. I was surprised at the affordability, many times something like this would make the micro inverter solution win.
Kan your monitor individual panel produktion?
Not with the ts4-a-f. The -o version which is also an optimizer does have monitoring per panel.
@@BeeneEnergy I'm not seeing a Dual Input version of the AO 🤔 it would be nise to put 2 460 Birasials on a single Optimizer/Module.... You think they would be able to make something inline and small as an Emporia Smart Plug atleast for monitoring.
Man I like these last few entries you had man. I am currently shopping for a home solar system and I was hesitant to get 2 smaller inverters as opposed to 1 large one. Now seeing it i action makes more sense. I had no idea about the regulations though I will have to check my area
Very helpful thank you
Awesome. Do you still need a fusable DC disconnect going into the inverter? Or do you only have the dc Disconnect on the inverter?
Code did not require a fusible disconnect for me. Just the dc disconnect at the inverter.
I'm adding a 15 panel 6KW array to the roof above my garage, and have the panels, disconnects, inverters, battery bank, conduit, etc. The one part that I'm still missing my plan for Rapid Shutdown. Recently my county went from 2014 NEC to 2017, so now I'm supposed to go with a module level shutdown, but I don't know that I'm going to get it formally inspected anyhow, so I don't suppose it matters, however I do want everything to be safe. I was wondering if you've compared the TIGO solution to the IMO Fire Raptor option? Not a lot of content out there on the Fire Raptors.
Great Channel BTW!
Thanks!
I’ve actually not heard of the IMO option.
@@BeeneEnergy After doing a fair amount of research on both, I'm leaning towards the TIGO solution, just because it can do optimization and monitoring. I'm thinking of just going with the TS4-A-0 model that has all options since it's just 15 panels and the cost isn't crazy. I'm just not certain of the other components that I need. If I get the CCA and TAP, do you know if I also need the RSS transmitter that you mentioned in your video? From what I gather, I should just be good with the CCA and TAP - still need to read through the whole manual though. Essentially I just want to have a setup where they can press the big red botton near the meter and turn off the panels. My set up will technically be off-grid, since it'll just be powering select loads in my house, so I don't believe that the requirement is there to also turn off the inverters via the red button.
Hi Beene,
Why do you need an "inverter" in the loop for the TS4s to work and turn On/OFF the string output?
Can't you just use a Voltmeter instead of an inverter to look at the voltage at the output of the string and test the functionality of your TS4 RSDs?
I've tried to power up the Tigo transmitter with a 12v dc adaptor and see if it can turn ON/Off the TS4s but I found the string output was just sitting at 0.6v per TS4 module and the modules not turned ON even when the transmitter is sending the Keep-alive signal in.
I can't see how/why the TS4 must need an inverter in the loop to work.
Thanks for making this video, you explained it really well.
That’s very curious. I didn’t know there had to be an inverter for the modules to turn on. I’ll have to see if mine act there same.
When do you think they will make a Single 1000 watt Panel 🤔
They have 650w panels but they are so big physically! I think we will have to get beyond 20% efficiency before a 1000w panels becomes reality.
@@BeeneEnergy so 80% efficiensy will give us a 1000 Watt Panel the size of a kurrent 250 Watt Panel 😎
Great video, I really appreciate you producing this and providing all of this detail. I have a couple questions about your setup since it is so similar to what I’m working on. I have 18 450w bi facials in Wisconsin and two h6 inverters. I am planning to run them in two strings of just over 400v / 4000w each. From what I understand each mppt input can handle up to 4.5kw and is most efficient around 400v. Why did you decide on 4 strings vs 2 at higher voltage? Do you also need a utility service disconnect to satisfy your provider or do you think the RSS will suffice. If mine wants a disconnect at the meter, I suspect that would serve the RaPid shutdown needs as well since the transmitter would lose power and open the circuits?
The four strings instead of two was a miscommunication between me and the person doing the plans. I’ll combine to have longer strings later when I add panels. That way it frees up a pair of wires I can use to get another set of panels to the inverters.
My utility specifically stated they wanted an ac disconnect by the meter. I gave them documentation and drawings showing how the rapid shutdown works and they approved it. Ymmv for sure.
My rapid shutdown breaker is in my breaker panel so it wouldn’t lose power if I disconnected my inverters. I’m sure there’s a way to wire it so the ac disconnect also triggers rapid shutdown though.
Thanks for watching, glad it helped in some way!
@@BeeneEnergy Ahh, I wasn't sure if you were trying to avoid overdriving the MMPTs, that's been my concern. I still am not sure if running two inverters is the way to go, or just the one ( keeping the other as a backup) because I have a feeling I will almost never be nearing the full 6kw, and running one might be more efficient. How close to your panel ratings does your output typically come? Have you come up with any software means of graphing output or just the LCDs on the inverters?
I saw in the eBay listing, but not on their website, that Signature Solar has a stark warning about not driving it at or over 6KW or risk significantly reducing its lifespan. That suggests they had at least a few die on customers and that was their assessment. But the manual made it sound like up to 9KW of solar would be ok. I guess we'll see.
After watching your other more thorough system overview, I found the answer to my other question, that's cool they were ok with the DC disconnect as I'm sure having to run another disconnect for AC would have been a drag.
But you took the whole rapid shut down mandate with stride. I already bought most of my parts and thought I was almost ready to install before I found out about it. At first it felt like a major setback, but ultimately I guess it could be worse. Your attitude helped me see past it and consider the upside.
If you don't mind me asking, who did you have prepare your plans? ( Sorry if you mentioned in the video, I didn't catch it ).
( It was cool to see your reply and that your still active, I'm subscribed and looking forward to see how things progress )
@@sjetmand Wow I hadn’t seen their comment about not over paneling. That’s disappointing!
I see about 75% of my 8.4kw array in the hot summer. That’s spread across both inverters of course. Don’t know what the cool sunny months will provide yet.
With the warning you pointed out maybe I won’t over panel like I had planned. Might add another 3-4kw and be done. It will be a west facing array so that should prevent peak generation too.
I use the sense energy monitor with solar CT’s to see my data. I’ll put a post up here on RUclips showing what the interface looks like. I’m happy with it, just another few hundred to spend :).
I am a newbie and have a couple questions so bear with me. The solar pv ac disconnects, is it wired from the inverter to it and then to the electricity wires from the meter? also the tigo system is wired to your ac disconnect box or your dc disconnect box? I know they maybe dumb questions but please bear with me. Thanks
No worries. I need to walk through the entire setup so you can see how each piece is wired in.
So there are two knobs on the inverter. Left knob is dc disconnect which kills panel to inverter connection. This is redundant to the rapid shutdown.
Knob on the right is actually just a bypass for any ac devices in a critical loads panel. So for this setup it’s useless.
The tigo system is in my dc box. It does have ac running to the power supply but that’s the only ac running into that dc box between the inverters.
Hi Beene! Can you mix the Tigo 700w rated with the 500w rated ? Thanks
Oh gosh, I don’t know.
@@BeeneEnergy hehehe thanks anyway
if you have a outdoor circuit breaker before the pv ac disconnect from the meter (wires running from meter to circuit breaker then there is a pv solar ac disconnect panel is the wires from the line going directly to the main panel inside ?
I don’t quite understand but I’ll explain and you can tell me if that answers it.
Inverter ac lines run directly to the breaker panel in my utility closet. They do not run outside to the disconnect switch. My only ac side disconnect is the breakers in the panel.
The switch out by the meter turns off the power supply that runs the tigo rapid shutdown piece.
@@BeeneEnergy thanks for the rely
Are there code rules for panels on vans, rv, or other vehicles? You have an awesome setup for your home by the way :o)
Thanks!
As far as I know there aren’t rules governing panels on a vehicle.
@@BeeneEnergy Thanks for replying... Here in Indiana...they will nickel and dime you to death with regulations, etc. We here suspect they have a cozy relationship with the grid people..so make it as difficult as they can for homeowners. I plan to install my whole system using a mobile method for just that reason.. I mean.. I can just pull my van up to the house and plug the house in..yes? lol.. independently..not to the grid panel.. I of course still plan a safe setup regardless though,, not to mention I can move it to follow the sun..and of course be ready if I have to escape when the SHTF.. your advise is excellent and we all appreciate your efforts :o)
Please consider holding a discussion on the pros & cons of combining LiFePO4 batteries with Lead batteries. A lot of people with existing Lead Acid battery banks may not want to discard their investment in Lead batteires - but they may want to upgrade and start using LiFePO4 ... It can be done (under very controlled conditions - if the LiFePO4 is set up as the primary and the voltage level is held at 14.0 V - in both the Lithium and the lead battery banks ) the real trouble issues are preventing the Lead from degrading the LiFePO4 and It is my opinion that this can be done with a good low voltage shut - off in line between the LiFePO4 system and the Lead acid battery system.
That's a hard one. Sounds like you have a fairly good handle on it and I agree the big problem is the resting voltage. Lead Acid will be 12.6-12.8v maybe and LiFePo4 will be up at 13.5-14v. While charging I think everything would be fine. But constantly connecting and disconnecting battery banks sounds like a challenge for relays and an arduino as I don't know that there would be anything off the shelf.
@@BeeneEnergy I was think that by using the LiFePO4 as the primary bank - and charging it & keeping them both at or above 13.2 would work pretty well. A good low voltage cutoff between the two systems that activates when the lead falls below 12 volts. should prevent damage to the LiFePO4 ...
@@BeeneEnergy I have done a bit more thinking about this and I don;t think it is too wise to try and combine Lead acid batteries and LiFePO4 on the DC side (too many problems ) - but I think that it may be just fine to combine them on the AC side.
@@smde1 I don’t know why I hadn’t thought of ac coupling. If I had a lead acid 48v I could run one growatt with its own set of panels on that bank and another growatt with the lithium.
I think the problem then would be battery banks that are independent, and controlling which inverter is providing the energy as you’d want to balance it so the batteries deplete somewhat evenly.
@@BeeneEnergy It seems much more manageable than trying to combine the Battery banks on the DC side with different chemistry / resting voltages, etc. The easiest would be to use the LiFePO4 for high demand-use things like AC, refrigerators, garage appliances-shop tools. while using the Lead Acid for lights, water heater, etc and other things that are not so high-demand.
Only issue is those inverters don't last I've gone thru 3 of them in 1.5 years
One of mine just failed too! Funny that I had just installed a hybrid next to it so I just moved the panels to the new one.
Mine only had 4kw of panels on them and in temp controlled environment…
I have a birdhouse if u need one brother
I've looked at the birdhouse, but with the TIGO system all I need is an AC switch. So for now this will do great. Thanks! Of course we'll see what the inspector says when they come out!
What did the inspector think?
I’m working on a system now.
Going to use a 3 phase fusable disconnect to kill the inverter to grid. As well as kill the power to make the Tigo go dark. Kill two with one switch. Crazy?