Infield Fly No-Call Leads to A's Double Play vs Rangers - Reviewing Umpire Ordinary Effort Criteria
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- Опубликовано: 10 апр 2024
- Rangers batter Jared Walsh's soft infield pop fly turned into an A's inning-ending double play when 2B Umpire Tom Hanahan, initially appearing to signal an infield fly, suddenly signaled "safe", ruling that sliding Oakland 2B Zack Gelof couldn't catch the ball with ordinary effort. Article: www.closecallsports.com/2024/...
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The question of whether Walsh's hit on the infield qualifies as an "infield fly" or not depends not on where the ball landed (the infield), but rather the particular language of baseball's infield fly rule, which have much more to do with infielders than the infield itself. 
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To me an umpire should make the judgement decision to call infield fly when the ball starts to descend. If you wait until you see if the fielder slides for the ball it is too late for the runners to react. Also once you make the signal or call you should not be able to take it back.
The trouble is that it requires some speculation. *Could* an infielder catch it using ordinary effort? Or does the fact that he had to slide for it indicate that it required something extra? It's not always clear when the ball comes off the bat, and may take a few seconds to calculate.
As umpires, we are trained to try to make the "call" at or near the "apex" of the flight of the ball. This clearly would have been a very late call, even if he had called it, as he was just making the call just before field attempted the catch. This clearly was not an infield fly, and the correct call was not to call "Infield Fly", however it appears the umpire started to point up, (the correct mechanics for the signal/call), and it appears was even starting to say it, but, then waved it off. I put this one on him.
@@XXelpollodiabloXXwhich is why judgement calls like ordinary effort should be taken out of the rulebook.
If it's a fly ball that would land anywhere in the infield make it an infield fly. That way the runners know they can advance.
Anything else and the runners don't know what to do until it is too late.
@@ericblair5731 Then how do you define a fly ball? If this ball had a little less height and landed in front of the second baseman, is it still a fly ball? There’s going to be a judgment call that has to be made somewhere.
@@ericblair5731 That wouldn't even protect the runners, as you don't know where the ball lands until it does. Better to have some call while the ball is still in flight (e.g. at the apex of it's path) while the runners can still react.
All very good points, but the definition specifies "average skill at the position in that league." This is the Oakland Athletics...😆
lol
Funny, but in that league, not in that team.
Oakland "lacking in" Athletics amirite? Anyone? Hello? Why is this room empty all of a sudden?
Love your screen name by the way!
The umpire mechanics stuff is what keeps me coming back. Aw, hell, I like all of it. Keep up the great work, Lindsay!
The rule is there to protect the runners, do you think they exhibited “ordinary effort”? Any big leaguer shoulda made that play…..protect the runners, that’s the spirit of the rule.
I think that was a “TV” slide (thanks to Gregg Zaun for that). I think that if he kept on running he could have easily caught the ball - ordinary effort. The way he slid his feet were infront of him so by sliding he slowed down. Infield fly all the way. I had a centre fielder who slid like that whenever he caught the ball - made the easiest fly balls look difficult.
Does everybody miss Zauny?
If you can get under the ball it's easier to catch, and a slide to get under the ball shouldn't be anything unexpected from an MLB infielder. I would call that ordinary effort in that league.
Even without going to his knees, he was sprinting from quite a distance just to get to it. Not ordinary effort. Was a great play just to get there.
Running at full speed (since he didn't have time to get there and stop) and catching a ball that is coming mostly straight down is VERY difficult. Sliding makes it much easier by slowing you down faster as well as giving you the ability to lean back farther if you DO overslide. You also have more control over your catching hard laterally while sliding than running full speed.
This was definitely not an ordinary effort play. It just wasn't hit high enough to get under it comfortably.
@@MwD676 Because the pitcher slacked off.
Or was this a brilliant acting job by the A's second baseman to drop the ball without getting called for an intentional drop? Catching the ball is the worst thing he could have done there, as the A's will only get one out. If the umpires call either an infield fly or an intentional drop, the A's get that out anyway. If it drops, the A's get a possible double play.
Give me a break. Bobbling a ball in full slide could have EASILY resulted in everybody safe. He could have bobbled that ball much farther away. NO WAY he did it on purpose.
@@FUGP72idk man
@@FUGP72 Not if he had situational awareness that the runners were still standing on their initial base. I know high school players who are that savvy (and tried to pull similar things).
@@ericjohannsen yea we used to try to get the runner to move off 2nd base by dropping it if the popup would land within a step or two of the bag
Exactly. During ANY infield fly situation the fielder should fumble the ball, then throw for the force out. They have NOTHING to lose, and can only trick umpires.
Don't like it either first baseman could have caught it with ordinary effort
ordianary effort also means that a fielder is camped under it, which no fielder here was
This is an ordinary play for F4 in MLB; no camping necessary for catches by MLB infielders to be ordinary. I agree with commenters that say F1 is not expected to make the catch on infield pop-ups. None of the other infielders should hesitate for an instant thinking that F1 is going to make a play on this ball. My coach taught me this when I was 12 and I was a below average little league second baseman. This is a good example of the defense making a routine play look difficult.
@@TPinesGold Or, its a good example of a smart fielder getting around a dumb rule
The question I have is, how soon do they have to make the call? Here, it seems he waited until the ball was already dropped. As a runner, I'm not taking much of a lead if I think the catch can be made. That's the whole point of the rule.
They're supposed to call it basically immediately.
It's to be called after, I repeat after the player is camped under the ball which is dropping.
@@sonnybowman False. Per MLB, "In these situations, the umpire will declare "infield fly" for the benefit of the baserunners as soon as it is apparent that the fly ball qualifies as an infield fly. "
@@CoachTabe Not false. You’re stating the rule. He is stating the accepted interpretation.
It qualifies as an apparent infield fly when the fielder is “camped” under it with only the need for ordinary effort.
It should be called when apparent-not immediately.
@@MwD676 Yes, of course in stating the rule. That's what we should be going by. And ordinary effort doesn't mean you have to be camped under a popup. It just means a player of average skill should make the play.
Either way, this call was egregiously late - and wrong. An easy popup right next to the mound is an infield fly. Period.
So next time you have an infield pop fly take your time and slide into the ball. Easy double play.
Exactly, this leaves room for abuse.
@@doohuh Especially if you have the person who should make the play slack off and basically stand there, making others compensate.
for the Pete Kozma play, I'll add he wasn't *sprinting* toward the outfield with his back to the infield (which I'd say is extraordinary effort), but rather is drifting backwards at an ordinary pace with his body squared up to the infield (so, infield fly applies)
Yes, those are artificial turf pellets and not waterlogged field water sprays coming up during the slide (I did not realize that Texas had Shaw Sports B1K Sports (Artificial) Turf as their surface... only 1 of 5 stadiums to have a turf field). So in this case condition of the field is not a consideration like I thought at first. Still, it was a non ordinary effort play.
That is a close call. Someone should make a youtube channel about all the close calls in baseball.
I'm confused. The rule says "can be caught". It does not say "was caught by ordinary effort". Humpback liners no ordinary effort. This seemed to be an ordinary effort catchable infield fly. MLB infielders are smart. Will we now see them running around in circles under a fly ball to get a double or triple play? Do you wait till the infielder butchers the play? U2 had his hand up because it was a fly ball that could (can in the moment of his putting his hand up) be caught by ordinary effort.
So the pitcher could have taken a few more steps and got there with little effort, but he was waved off by someone that was trying to get there with extra-ordinary effort.
Extraordinary is 1 word.
But hyphen-ate it for emphasis and to point out irony…
Pitchers only field fly balls in self defense.
@J.C... it was ordinary effort, there was just an extra amount. That extra-ordinary effort.
Except this is the second baseman's ball all the way. Pitchers are taught to not pursue fly balls.
I guess I don’t understand how the 2nd base ump can signal infield fly, then change his mind after the runners go back to their bases. I understand the unusual effort piece, but in my mind once the ump signals infield fly, the call should stand.
as a former umpire for 25 years (after my catching days ended), this was (unfortunately for the Rangers & their fans) absolutely correct. In that situation. Had this been a pop-up that was easily catchable, the umpiring crew would've IMMEDIATELY pointed to the 'pop up' and (audibly) called/yelled, "Infield Fly Rule, Batter is Out, If Fair". The fact that none of them did, showed that this umpiring crew knew their sh*t (which many DON'T!). Lastly, this same play happened to me, but I was batting (and it was the only double play I hit into since I was in Little League!)
So I would’ve deemed as the pitcher to be the primary fielder as he was in an ordinary effect position. So ruling should’ve been infield fly batters out.
Never seen a pitcher catch a pop up in that location ever in the MLB. Let alone one with average defensive skill.
the pitcher is busy pitching and then recovering from landing after throwing a pitch. They have to then figure out what happened to the ball, then find the ball, then run down a mount to get to where it was landing to catch it over the shoulder.
Not routine.
OK so, then you don't understand baseball then. This is NEVER the pitcher's ball to catch.
@@FUGP72again this pop up isn’t high so if the judgement of the umpire deemed the pitcher to be the primary fielder than I would’ve called infield fly. He stopped when he saw the second baseman. I’m good with the no call but also good with infield fly
@@FUGP72 That doesn't mean he couldn't have caught it with ordinary effort. He could have.
Great explanation. Always easy to second guess with the benefit of multiple replays, of course. But to my eye the pitcher could have easily made the play had he not been called off. I don’t think the rule in any way contemplates one player being called off by another (in this case, semi erroneously I think). I am also not convinced the second baseman needed to slide to make that catch. Simply staying on his feet, running and turning his glove over for a below the belt catch would, it looks to me, have gotten him there in plenty of time. Kind of a fielding error, really.
So all you need to do as an infielder is wait a moment to move to catch the pop-up, then slide on your knees as you drop it, setting up an easy double play.
The Cardinal shortstop only looked away from the popup when he heard someone calling behind him. (It was the LF ump calling an infield fly.)
Honestly, this isn't an infield fly any day of the week, but U2 didn't help the situation.
I learn so much here.
The umpire was signaling no catch with his safe signals. He was not waiving off the infield fly. You either point up and state infield fly if fair or don't move your arms. Safe signal indicated no catch, especially doing two safe signals as he did.
Which, since he signaled infield fly, by the raised index finger, he shouldn't have been signalling safe on the dropped catch. He should be assessed a 5 yard penalty for invalid fair catch signal.
If it’s an infield fly, the batter is out. He is not safe on a no-catch. The signal stays up to be clear.
So he in fact did wave off his own infield fly signal.
@@MwD676 On a dropped infield fly the umpire still has to indicate the dropped ball because that determines if the runners need to tag up before they attempt to advance. Remember, it's still a live ball and runners can still run if they want to.
Lindsey is suggesting he is waiving off his infield fly signal and he is not. He is waiving off a catch.
The problem here is that the ump began to signal infield fly and then changed his mind when the fielder dropped the ball. This gave the runners absolutely no chance in the situation. Also the umps judgment seems to be based not on effort, but on the fielder catching the ball.
Two areas of concern for infield flies. The area between home plate and pitcher's mound, and the arc between the pitcher's mound and the bases on the grass (an arc if you will, foul line to foul line).
Reason being, as Lindsay says, it's difficult for the pitcher to field behind the mound after striding toward home plate.
The area between home plate and the mound is problematic since the catcher is down in his squat, which delays his ability to get a jump on the ball.
Lindsay is using the Oakland feed. The MLB Network used the Texas feed. The Ranger play-by-play annoucer was miffed at the no-call. Complaining that the Rangers suffered an inning ending double play, which the IF should have prevented.
But he asked Dave Valle the Ranger analysis guy for his take and Dave agreed with the call. Valle a former catcher explained no fielder had ordinary effort.
I too agree with the outcome.
It's the 2024 A's, every defensive play requires extra ordinary effort.
When that ball peaked in height they should have called it. You have two players who could have made an easy catch. They made it look hard to catch by reacting slowly.
Ordinary effort is the key. Great explanation. We have the luxury of time, replays, more time, more replays. The guys have to call it now. There it is again with the broadcast crew, "what's your FEELING on the ifr?" Facts, not feelings.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
He did call it now. Now being when he signaled IFF. He should have stayed with that call.
When I saw it...the IF came close with extraordinary effort... I have nothing on that... Yeah, we hear it at lower levels too... many want the call when they don't get it...
I believe the rules said that any player could handle a ruled infield fly ball as long as it could have been caught with a normal effort by an infielder.
I think the 1b, 2b, and pitcher could’ve had it with ordinary effort. Maybe 1b more so than the others since we assume gloves are just an aesthetic accessory for pitchers
100% could have been caught with ordinary effort. The 2nd baseman thought the pitcher was going to get it, realized to late he wasn’t and went for it late, causing the slide. Poor call, in my opinion.
Yeah, just because 1 guy slacked off, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been caught with ordinary effort.
Looks like the pitcher was moving that way but was called off. Probably should have been a bit faster there, but at that point it wasn't his call to make.
No pitcher is going to get that. Every 2b in the league would be calling him off. Besides, pitchers are taught to not pursue fly balls.
Wrong in this case. It was a good call
@@karlroveyIrrelevant.
Off the bat it looked like it should be a routine popup and an easy infield fly call. With the early timing needed for an infield fly and the devastating outcome if it isnt called I would think you would have to err on the side of infield fly rather than not calling it if it is close.
I've watched a lot of your videos. One point of constructive feedback I want to give is I would like to see you conclude videos more often with your opinion of the situation. Most of your videos are just reading the rulebook and then asking the audience what they think. Do you think this should've been called an infield fly? If you're the ump, what's your call?
Yeah, six small steps? That's ordinary effort for sure.
Six small steps… and still wasn’t near the ball
If you understand why this rule was adopted, then you can understand an average pitcher can make this catch look ordinary. This idea that pitchers should field as little as possible does not excuse the fact they can field the position like a professional baseball player. This is an infield fly and a good umpire would have called time once it became apparent a double play was going to occur.
All the pitcher would have to do to catch that ball was take 3-4 steps and easily could have caught it but he didn't - he just stood there and expected everyone else to catch it. The second baseman didn't have to slide to catch it either but that's what he did and he still muffed it. I think they got this one wrong
Lindsay, when showing how the pitcher wouldn't have been and to catch it with ordinary effort, you circle where the 2B starts his dive. The actual location where the ball landed is MUCH closer. Any MLB pitcher could have caught that easily. Very bad call.
oh stop........the last pitcher I can remember who caught an infield popup was Cliff Lee in the 2009 World Series. Just because a fielder "can" make a catch doesnt mean hes camped under it and ready to catch it
@@mptr1783 tell me you don't understand how IF pop ups work without telling me you didn't understand how IF pop ups work
I was looking for this kind of comment. The pitcher chose not try and catch the pop-up because pitchers typically let the infielders make the catch. If the pitcher had not hesitated, I think he could have made the catch with ordinary effort.
The entire point of this rule is to prevent an easy double play that the base runners are unable to avoid...which is exactly what happened here. Terrible call.
I think it's more to prevent intentionally dropping the ball or allowing it to fall untouched, creating the easy double play. If the missed catch wasn't intentional, then it's OK. That's why "ordinary effort" is in the rule; it's hard to directly gauge intent, but "come on, you really should have had that" comes real close to that and is a bit more objective than judging intent. Here, it's not all that clear that the drop was intentional, so I'm OK with the outcome given what I think the rule is intended to prevent.
@oxwof the only reason is was a "tough play" was because the second baseman reacted late as he thought pitcher was going to catch it. That doesn't make it suddenly a non routine play.
I am not a fan of the infield fly rule, but I have a solution. On any pop fly within the infield, or should be expected to be caught by an infielder of ordinary skill and effort, runners do not need to tag up before advancing to the next base; however if the ball is caught the runners must return to the base previously occupied before the at bat. The wording needs refinement but; the idea eliminates infielders intentionally dropping balls to get an easy double play, the question of what runners should do on an in field fly, and does not penalize the defense so long as they make the catch.
"Ordinary effort" is like "strike at the ball"-vague, thus subject to (widely) variable interpretation.
IThe pitcher could have definitely caught that pop up with "ordinary effort". He clearly stops tracking the fly when he spots his infielder charging in. Because the infielder is facing the ball and because he's a lowly pitcher, he yields. The infielder probably could have caught that with ordinary effort but hesitated then charged late. Either way, blown call.
Infield fly. For a major-league middle infielder, that would have been ordinary effort. This is one of those calls the umps have to make immediately, because hesitating causes exactly what we saw, the runners not knowing what to do. Both R1 and R2 treated it as an infield fly, which I think would have been the correct (and fair) call. As for sliding into a catch on a ball dropping in this manner, I was doing that 40+ years ago and I was neither a major-leaguer nor a particularly talented fielder even at rec-league levels. It's simply the way you catch a popup when you get caught in between glove-up and glove-down.
2B Ump should clean up those mechanics, and also the call should be made earlier so that the runners can react appropriately, but I've got no infield fly without question. Ball didn't have the hang time to make that an ordinary effort play, given the location. Nobody's settling under that ball, period.
That ball could have been caught with ordinary effort. The pitcher was getting position, but called off. The second baseman could have caught it with ordinary effort had he stayed on his feet. He could have caught it in the slide also. The umpire needs to make that call with sufficient time for the runners to make a decision, one way or another. That is the purpose of the rule.
The problem is that it makes the hitting team have a huge disadvantage
Misplaying a ball or getting a bad read and a late start shouldnt be rewarded with a non-call on the infield fly. The pitcher absolutely could have made the play and the 2nd basement didnt have to slide. He got rewarded for a bad read and a late start. The other issue I have is, there is NOTHING the baserunners could have done in that situation to protect themselves from a purposeful or accidental drop. That call has to be made immediately, the umpire waited for the outcome to call it. If you notice...he has his hand up and is just about to call it, then sees the drop and changes his mind. What exactly the purpose of waiting for the outcome to make the call, the protection of the runners is gone at that point.
I would call an Infield Fly. As others have stated, I do think that the pitcher and the 1B could have made the play with ordinary effort, but it seems that 2B called them off. Also, that pitcher was not giving much effort at all.
Given that wasn't called an infield fly, if I am keeping score (especially since this one went against the home team), I would charge E4.
Well, it's certainly not an *error* . The A's got *two* outs on the play in exchange for allowing the batter to reach base. That's a double play, 4-1-5-6. No one gained a base as the result of the second baseman's drop. Quite to the contrary, the A's got an extra out because of it. And therefore, by definition, it can't be an error.
I think that is an infield fly rule and was a missed call. That was not some all out stretched out fielder catching a ball. Yes he had to leave his feet but at the MLB level I would still consider that ordinary effort.
That being said, I wouldn't argue it as a missed call if I was the Rangers. Just a judgement call that didn't go their way.
I feel as though any infield fly signally by an umpire should be made before the ball is in contact with an infielder, he didn't signal anything until the ball hit the second baseman. When is the infield fly rule expected to be made, comments are say the apex of the ball but I don't recall you saying that, and I re-watched it, if the rulebook does indicate the apex as the point when infield fly is to be called then this video didn't address the bigger issue of how late the call was made.
The rule is "When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners." Though this often does align with the apex, for hits that are lower, it sometimes occurs only near the end of the ball's flight.
@@CloseCallSports I appreciate the clarification, however that raises the bigger question on the "ordinary effort" standard. A fly ball to the infield, especially a low one, are typically shorter hang times; so after determining that a fly ball will land in the infield how is the Umpire expected to know that it could be caught by ordinary effort without determining the location of the infielders? I still like my rule change from a different comment "I am not a fan of the infield fly rule, but I have a solution. On any pop fly within the infield, or should be expected to be caught by an infielder of ordinary skill and effort, runners do not need to tag up before advancing to the next base; however if the ball is caught the runners must return to the base previously occupied before the at bat. The wording needs refinement but; the idea eliminates infielders intentionally dropping balls to get an easy double play, the question of what runners should do on an in field fly, and does not penalize the defense so long as they make the catch." I also think this rule should be in place with runners on any base and any number of outs.
Texas could have avoided the double play if the batter passed the runner on first before the force out at third. Batter would be out, same as an infield fly, but there would be no force play.
Honestly, I feel like it should just be any fly ball in the infield is an IFR. This one to me should have easily been caught, either by the pitcher, or by the 2B WITHOUT a slide. The slide actually made it worse for him.
IDK, maybe that would give unnecessary freebies to the defense, but the situation doesn't come up extraordinarily often (I would guess a couple times per game max).
F1 could have made that play with ordinary effort as any pitcher could. Just because they don’t normally field balls doesn’t mean they can’t. I would call this from 10u to 18u.
Literally seen several pop ups like that fall untouched (from 10u-18u) and all runners were safe.
Infield fly rule should be called in the air and therefore based on the rule’s satisfaction at that time, not on the rule’s satisfaction or not when the ball is dropped.
Atta babe! Love this channel getting into the rulebook.
Can’t infield fly be retroactively applied? I believe it can be in NFHS. If it can be in the majors, this would be an appropriate use since the 2nd base Ump faked out the runners by starting to signal infield fly.
Fed is the only ruleset that allows a "corrective" infield fly call. OBR and NCAA ruleset indicates that an infield fly not called is not an infield fly, even if all the criteria are otherwise met.
My answer to this is that it's an infield fly only if it is so-called by an umpire. Unless you hear it called, as a base runner you should try to advance. In this case, should the umpire have called an infield fly. Damn right he should have. This BS about whether the infielder should have been able to catch it, is just BS. If it's a pop fly in the infield, and it is not caught, it's an error, especially if it it's in and then out of the fielder's glove.
I think it's ridiculous that pitchers don't take pop flies, but also, the second baseball coulda made that catch without sliding
As a HS and NCAA D2 D3 Softball Umpire I was taught to judge ordinary effort by the fielder being camped under the ball when it is at its apex. So based on this video I would not judge this as ordinary effort because the second baseman (F4) had to charge and go to his knees to attempt to catch this ball.
But the pitcher?? The pitcher could have camped under it and was on his way to doing so. He stopped when he say the infielder charging in to avoid a potential collision.
@@frgabrielmary4620No way would the pitcher be able to camp under that ball. That would be an over the shoulder catch. Furthermore, no pitcher is going to even attempt that.
@@karlrovey It fell three steps in front of him, but yes I understand that it would have been an over-the-shoulder catch. If that would be considered "extraordinary" then the call is fine, but to base the judgment on the infielder's charge seems mistaken to me.
@frgabrielmary4620 What is normal defensive effort for a pitcher? The only pitcher I can think of who would have gone for that ball is Greg Maddux, and he retired back in 2008.
@@karlrovey
Ron Darling. Kenny Rogers.
Absolutely IFR
I agree with those saying it should have been an IFF, but that said, where was R1? As soon as it was obvious that the IFF was not called, he should been heading to second, and would have been there in plenty of time.
It was never obvious that it was not called. U2 points his finger in the air which is the sign for an infield fly. There's no mechanism in the rules for an umpire to call takebacksies on an IFF ruling. The runners did exactly as they are supposed to do and the umpires blew the call.
@@ssmith7074Now that I look at it again, I agree with you.
Why not bring up the 1st basemen. It looks like he could've made the play, but we shouldn't have "could've" in a rule.
There was no reason for the 2nd baseman to slide. He could have caught that ball on the run. Hell, "I" could have caught THAT ball on the run. This should have been "ordinary effort" because there was no reason to slide.
A agree completely with @Noordhof and @kerrytodd3753. The rule as I was taught is to protect the runners and you have to call it latest on the summit so that each runner can position themselves. The rule does not make sense if you as an umpire wait to see the "ordinary effort" of any infielder is ok or not.
This umpire can’t get consistent when making a call infield fly. blocking the plate when catcher already has the ball. Calling balls and strikes
Thank you! I have always been confused by the MLB infield fly rule. After watching this video, I am still confused, but not as much as before. I did NOT know about the hand signal from the umpire. I had seen it before, but I thought the umpire was from Hawaii and just doing a shaka sign to tell the players to hang loose. Next time there's a potential infield fly, I'll pay attention to the umpire to see if he does the shaka sign.
The A's got away with this one. No question about it.
If it's a fly ball in the infield, it should be an automatic call.
It’s an infield fly only because that was the second base umps first signal. It wasn’t by definition. Why the ump does that the runners are f c k d
If the ump immediately changes to a “safe” call (as he did), then he did not call it an infield fly.
@@bernier42 All the safe call is doing is indicating that the ball wasn't caught. Once the infield fly call is made the umpire can't undo it. This was just a simple blown call.
@@bernier42 so what was his first call. Hey f the runners . It wasn’t an infield fly but the ump screwed it up
@@ssmith7074 watch his first motion . Not safe . I agree he blew it ,
@@ssmith7074 You would never signal a no-catch on an infield fly. You continue to point up to indicate that the batter is out (not safe on no-catch).
So in fact, he did cancel his initial infield fly signal.
Infield Fly all day. The 2B has nothing to do with it tbh, the ball at it's apex was in a position for an easy catch by P or 1B. The fact the 2B went for it has nothing to do with it. Think of it this way - if the LF called them off from all the way over in the outfield, would that affect the ruling? No. So why should the 2B affect whether the others could catch with ordinary effort, which both P and 1B could.
ANY pitcher on my son's JV high school could've caught that ball. Should've been classified as ordinart effort and infield fly. Crap call by the officiating crew.
It's a shit call. The umpire has his hand up signaling infield fly and the runners shouldn't be punished for following that signal. The safe call is just indicating that the fielder didn't make the catch. If leaving the feet is all it takes to negate an infield fly then infielders are just going to 'dive' for everything and get free double plays.
The runner never...never watch the umpire make infield fly call.
Correct call.
You are wrong
@@DinkinFlicka11 Nope. Even the video knows I'm right. The judgment comes down to 'normal effort' on the part of the fielder and no scorer in their right mind would give a hit on that play if there were no runners on.
@@donh6416 Are they just supposed to randomly run around and guess what's going to happen?
So the defense gets rewarded for being sloppy?
Original call on field was infield fly. You cant wave that off, sorry. Also, if a fielder is poorly positioned, and they make a mistake, that is assessed an error even if they dive. That should be called an infield fly simply because the second baseman had to cover his own mistake for a late start. The definition says "an infielder" not "that infielder". So individual positioning or skill DOES NOT MATTER. Its an infield fly all day. 31/32 teams would easily catch that.
Ump should have to make the call early enough for the runners to react to it. Or else not fair to the runners.
I think it should have been an infield fly rule
This is a trash call. It's an easy popup that should've been easily caught. If nobody is on base and the exact same thing happens, you think Texas won't be mad that their infielders dropped it? Of course they would be.
The umpires waited way too long to make the call and screwed the runners. On an easy popup that landed right next to the mound. That should never happen.
Might have been mad. But wouldn’t be scored an error because it took more than ordinary effort.
@@MwD676 I disagree that it took more than ordinary effort. The ball was in the air nearly four seconds.
I agree with your fundamental point, but I think Texas would have been okay with the drop if the bases had been empty. It was Oakland that dropped the ball.
@@georgenewman4464 LOL. Dang it. Yeah, Oakland.
Seeing this called non-infield fly and the Atlanta game called infield fly, shows you how screwed up and inconsistent this rule is. This one was an easy infield fly call. The Atlanta one is the worst call in the history of baseball.
The Atlanta one was correct by rule. You had an infielder camped under a pop fly.
Infield fly rule should have applied
Either it is a bad call by the umpire or a bad rule by mlb
This was clearly an infield fly.
So now pitchers can stare at balls they could catch easily and let the ball fall so an IF can get a dp?
Ball should have been caught. This is professional baseball - the second baseman should have fielded the ball cleanly.
Angel Hernandez would have call it a ground rule double.
HBP 🤣
I believe that pitcher is a defensive BUM if he is not able to and more importantly if he does not practice on how to field that ball.
Personally I'd consider an MLB infielder having to slide (as opposed to a full length dive) as being something that in the MLB should be "ordinary effort for an average player in that league".
Let's get to the basics of the infield fly rule. The purpose of the infield fly rule is to prevent the defense from making a double play out of an ordinary/routine play. The mechanics of the infield fly rule is to point your hand in the air above your head and scream, "Infield fly if fair"! The umpire began to point his hand and realized (as she beautifully explained it), he realized this wasn't an ordinary effort by the player making the play on the ball, I.E. the 2nd baseman. The umpire's mouth didn't open and scream infield fly or point to the sky. The ball was never deemed an infield fly by any other of the umpires. The only signal was the 2nd base umpire who made a safe call, I.E. the ball being dropped.
Take note of the level of play of the current game, I.E. MLB game. The 2nd baseman is sliding and he ends up dropping the ball. Why did he drop the ball? He dropped the ball because he was attempting a sliding catch. He isn't dropping the ball intentionally, (if he did it would be an intentional drop rule), and he didn't purposely let the ball drop in front of him to make a double play, (The purpose of the infield fly rule).
For the pitcher to be considered to have an ordinary effort on the play he must make an effort to field the ball. Secondly, it is very rare for the pitcher to make an attempt at any batted infield fly behind the pitcher's plate. Commonly the pitcher goes for any play in front of him between him and the catcher.
It's been a few years but I was taught, Plate umpire will make the infield fly call. Field ump can point to help give the Plate Ump his opinion but, the call will come from the plate and the other umpires shall echo the call. Anyone else remember or taught this way or did the Mandela Effect get this one too? imo Infield Fly on this one
Modern mechanics permit any umpire in the infield to make the infield fly call. This is a good no-call.
@@teebob21 Mandela Effect strikes again. It is interesting to not have a call responsibility on this play meaning that 3 umpires could have adjudged, no infield fly on a play, but the 1 dissenting opinion would overrule those. We almost had it on this one with the umpire pointing his single finger to the sky. On this call, tough call but the result of the play is exactly what the rule tries to prohibit. You can't go half way on a pop up to the pitcher or you'll get doubled up. But... This game is easy to call from this office chair. Thanks for letting me know on modern mechanics. One last question for you since it has been a while. I know I can turn a no call into an infield fly. (Mandela Effect can't steal that one from me) I can't remember if we can turn an infield fly into a no call. I don't believe we can, but like I said, I've been away from this side for a few years. Thanks again.
@@joshnaudi NFHS is the only ruleset that permits a infield fly call after the fact. No other codes do; not Little League, NCAA, nor OBR.
@@teebob21 You're on top of it, TeeBob.
Running at full speed (since he didn't have time to get there and stop) and catching a ball that is coming mostly straight down is VERY difficult. Sliding makes it much easier by slowing you down faster as well as giving you the ability to lean back farther if you DO overslide. You also have more control over your catching hard laterally while sliding than running full speed.
This was definitely not an ordinary effort play. It just wasn't hit high enough to get under it comfortably.
I don't like the call, due to the runners are trapped on their bases. In my opinion, any pop up on the infield is an Infield Fly Rule. That rule needs to be changed.
They aren't trapped. Runner is expected to be halfway.
@@CybeastID if you're halfway then you're out either way. That's why the rule exists.
@@CybeastID "Obviously you're not a bowler."
~ The Dude 🎳
@@CybeastID No runner is reasonably going to be half way on a pop up to the infield. If there was just a runner on first with no out, in which case an infield fly cannot happen, and there's a pop up to third base, the runner on first will not be going HALF WAY to second base. That would be asinine.
You're only taking max 4 steps off the base in this case.
@Mark-wd5zb Okay fair enough. However to say that any pop up in the infield should automatically be an infield fly is asinine.
In full speed, that's the correct call, really hard to see it any other way. In slow-mo, there's a case but the umpires don't get a shot at that.
The rule was definitely properly applied, but this play shows that it should be either rewritten or reinterpreted. A rule that exists specifically to protect base-runners from cheap double plays should protect them if any reasonable player would assume the ball will be easily caught while it’s still in the air.
Maybe we should allow the batter to declare himself out on an infield fly.
bad news bears
Its a good loop-hole... just have the out of position player "try" to make the catch... easy double plays all day...
Sam Hollbrook still screwed the Braves in the playoffs because of the infield fly
side note I commented before the video was even over, thanks as always!
Not an infield fly. I had this one in a HS game. Very similar situation, except the knee lawn darted in the dirt and somehow the second baseman made the catch.
I think at the level the game is played at (which the definition includes consideration for) a simple slide like that would be considered ordinary effort.
But the distance and speed needed to get there would need effort that is beyond ordinary.
Pretty obviously not an infield fly call. The pitcher doesn't have an easy play, the 2nd baseman is playing back and thus also has a tough play. There's some consternation about the failure by the 2nd base umpire to signal correctly immediately, but he starts to signal while the ball's already landing on Gelof's hands. If the runners weren't moving by then, they weren't beating anything out anyways. And he doesn't even make the full infield fly call before quickly amending it to a 'safe' call. Like a lot of these complaints, it's sour grapes about a play going against a team in a way that's confusing if you don't know the rule.
2:01 the pitcher is an eligible infielder only if he reported in as such before the play or attempted play. Otherwise it's a technical foul and you are charged with a 2 minute penalty. The other team gets ball in hand behind the line.
Not ordinary effort, at no time was the fielder in a position to make a play on the baseball.