The Real Reason A.I. is Banned in DUNE While Space Travel Exists
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The Dune movie stands apart from other sci-fi films due to the absence of futuristic computer technology and A.I. Therefore one reason the dune universe might seem confusing partly stems from the inclusion of sophisticated technologies like space travel, protective shields, and spacecraft, contrasted with a complete absence of computers or screens. This discrepancy prompts the question of why, in a world otherwise rich in advanced technologies thats exists tens of thousands of years into the future, computers are nowhere to be found.
This deliberate exclusion of computers and artificial intelligence is thoroughly justified in the dune books however it’s not explained in the movie. The lack of computers in the dune universe ties directly to current real-world concerns about the rise of artificial intelligence. In 1965, Frank Herbert wrote "Dune," crafting a deeply complex and forward-thinking world within its pages. Demonstrating remarkable insight, he was able to predict and anticipate technological trends and societal changes for the next sixty years, even from that early standpoint. His novel not only stood as a work of science fiction but also as a foreseeing reflection on the future direction of technology and society.
Within the Dune universe: a particularly perplexing question arises: Why does a civilization capable of interstellar travel not utilize computers? Paul Atreides, for example, learns about the desert planet Arrakis using a primitive projector instead of the modern screens we are accustomed to. The absence of such technology leads to a deep exploration into Herbert's intricate universe, which spans millennia and explores the long-term consequences of historical decisions, well before Paul's time.
In essence, the absence of computers in the universe can be traced back to a pivotal period in society's history, during which the proliferation of computers and artificial intelligence led to societal collapse and sparked a revolution against the Thinking Machines. This upheaval, known as the Butlerian Jihad, paved the way for the emergence of a new techno-societal structure. In the aftermath, traditional computers were replaced by individuals known as mentats, who possessed extraordinary computational abilities.
If I ever met kroft and had a conversation with him and that music wasn't playing in the background, I don't think my brain could comprehend it 😅
this music must've played right when Kroft was born in the hospital, surely it follows him around everywhere he goes, funny thing is I thought this was alien soundtrack music until I eventually realized it has nothing to do with the movies and it's just something kroft chose for his channel haha. Love it though!
@@jdfoster23 It totally feels like it was created for Prometheus!
😂😂
@@jdfoster23it's not from the franchise? What are its origins then?
Man, you did not dig too deep here.. There are computers in the Dune Universe aplenty. There isn’t any artificial intelligence though in most places, because that was extinct during Butler’s Jihad. From then on AI was prohibited by law of the Landsrad. Anyway, there seems to be AI on IX. Besides that, there are human computers, the mentats and the guild navigators, an actual perversion of Butler’s original beliefs. In the recent movies (which do not represent Herbert’s books too well in my opinion) Paul obviously is using a very sophisticated holographic projrctor which uses advanced computing technology for sure. And what about hunter seekers? You need lots of computing technology for that. Technology is commonly hidden or disguised in the Dune Universe because of the remaining influence of Butler’s ideology. But Herbert shows that this mostly is hypocrisy. All the upper classes heavily rely on advanced technology like light globes, autonomous drones of all sorts etc. Somehow it‘s a paraphrase of the resentment of many islamic movements towards depicting human beings. Actually this idea has not much to do with the original religion. Mohammed did not want people to depict him or to visualize god for obvious reasons. He did not want to be idealized and god is an unimaginable entity for human beings. You and Mr. Villeneuve did not read Herbert‘s books very carefully. Your content is not wrong but it’s like a primitive reproduction of a very simple interpretation. Herbert‘s ideas are much more complex than that.
It is actually suspected that had the book series been finished, people would find out that the worms and spice were actually a creation of the rogue AI's that escaped, to lure humans into being addicted to it and reliant on it for advancement, which was ultimately designed as a way to set humanity on a path to self destruction, disguised as something miraculous. Sure it would benefit humanity for a long time, but all paths would eventually lead to self destruction one way or another, and could come in various forms, for example, the AI's could just one day make the spice useless / disappear. With enough of humanity reliant on it, it would cause a total collapse of civilization. But there are various forms it could take that could simply be unavoidable and unalterable consequences of going down the spice path, while also being completely unforeseeable by humanity. I think the true ending of dune was that while we shunned AI, it may be possible that AI itself it what created life in the galaxy, so it might not even just be our own banned AI creations but some greater AI civilization that operates completely invisibly, guiding the galaxy, and that may explain how the dune planet and spice exists. The book even subtly hints that the dune world and spice may be artificial constructs, either left behind or placed by some greater civilization.
Good to see Kroft is branching out 👍
To complete his final form, Kroft just needs to make lore videos about Blade Runner or Predator and all will be well in the universe lol
Or maybe even some wildcard franchises like chronicles of Riddick or Cloverfield.
I thought there are computers. You can clearly see the Harkkonnens using computers in arrakeen. They just can’t have thinking computers (Ai). But the computers we use every day in 2024 for personal, science, industry, military are fine.
What about the Ai today?
it could be ixian tech, and harkonnens might be using it
Yeah, the Ixian are the tech guild producing the most advanced technology. The houses are also producing their own computerized devices but they aren't as advanced as the Ixian ones.
In the books it's stated that it is thought that the Ixians even went above the threshold what is allowed for computerized devices.
It's just that they simply use computers only for mandatory tasks and not e. g. for entertaining purposes. That's why it seems that there aren't any.
They are probably using illegal machines as they are villains who don't care.
😅
Love seeing you make Dune content. A perfect fit!
same universe to be fair 😉
I’m here for your alien stuff but I am interested in just about any video you make.
I think one of the issues is that the great famillies and guilds do indeed have advanced computers, but they are kepts secret. For example, the Bene Gessuit guild had a secret computer to determine the human breeding programs. The space guild also had computers to assist with navigation, which made a spice fuelled navigator slipghtly more safe. The birth of the mentants themselves were from a man raised by a computer, and they do mimic computers. In that way they do not shun computers, they secretly use them, and worship them, and model themselves after them. It's just like the familly atomics in the movies, only the most powerful groups get to have advanced technology, but the common folks are prohibited. This was of course of of the big aspects of the books, the divide of common people, and the extrodinary people...
If i remember right its because ai went to war with them or almost wiped them out so they banshed it completely
Depends on who you're asking, because there are two versions of the Butlerian Jihad.
Frank Herbert's Butlerian Jihad wasn't about man vs. machine, but a war against men who used thinking machines to subjugate others.
Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson's is a generic Terminator type war.
@crankywriter1738 that's what the BH/KJA war *ends* as: it starts as the Frank version and the "Terminator-style war" is how it ends
Humans surrendered their thinking to the AI. Allowed AI to make decisions for them. A world where AI would make medical decisions, military decisions, even political and judicial decisions.
By surrendered their thinking to the AI, in turn the ai enslaved humanity. Empires would use their AI to wage battles against other empires with their AI and humanity was caught in the crossfire. For ai doesn't have morals or ethics, and is willing to sacrifice it's own pawns for the strategic goal.
Let me just say, Kroft doing Dune content is GREAT, but overlaying it with Prometheus background music is a true gift.
Thank you!!!!!!
You can keep making videos like this and I'll keep watching them. My kind of channel.
It's true though
We'll never develop gifts in areas that we offloaded / never use
Certain technologies or societal shifts have blocked higher expressions of consciousness
Dune shows us a world where human potential can be maximized. Where individuals are not just granted powers of strength and intellect, but powers of wisdom and foresight.
So much I didn't know from watching the 3 movies.....Crazy what happens to space navigators over time with constant exposure to spice,...that is trippy🤔
Accelerates evolution and they spend most of their time in zero g's
So great to see you talking about Dune universe. Please keep posting
They have computers. Just not intelligent machines - 'Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind'
This was more interesting than I initially thought.
Computers exist just not artificial intelligence and also humanlike robots...
Herbert wasn't talking about control panels and light switches etc...
Yess!! Would love to see Kroft cover more SciFi movies/books 😊
Man. The ambience you make with your videos makes me always come back brother. 👌🔥
I thought this exact subject within Prometheus.
The engineers technology is very much incomprehensible to us Humans.
(Without David, it quite possibly wouldn’t have been activated)
Maybe Their technology within Dune’s Universe is much the same.
Sophistication in an incomprehensible form. 🤔🤷🏻♂️
I do feel frequency is a huge factor within this franchise.
Whether it be sand compactors summoning sand worms or use of “The Voice”.
It makes you wonder just how much frequency has been an inspiration to Their technology.
You are 100% wrong ,their technology is not incomprehensible ,digital tech is banned by the Emperor.
Such a cool response. 👏
@@jahnalithat better be sarcasm
Nope, not sarcasm. Sounds like a guy who adds something valuable to a conversation, and has a creative thinking mind.
I immediately see what he was saying as possibly true. It was a cool response.
No, the Egyptians didn't use some kind of frequency oscillator to levitate heavy bricks.
Thank you.
And thank you for using "your" music, like in your wonderful "Alien" series movies 😊
I've read all the Dune books (from Herbert and his son) several times over the last 40 years, I love the Dune universe. I like the premise of a civilization without artificial intelligence, and how they are coping with it. Especially because we are already suffering from a civilization with computers and AI, and because it will be our downfall, not because of an Omnius, but because of the influences of TikTok and other "social" media on our minds.
Anyway, there is a problem with the new Dune books where technology plays a more important role and where the backstory of a civilization without AI is rolled out. There needs to be at least intelligence on the level of a Windows 11 to explain some technologies like holograms. It's not that I don't like to read the newer Dune books, but it makes the premise less plausible. Sometimes, not everything needs to be fleshed out.
So basically you are telling me that they are just not happy with high technology because it hurts their attorney and might be replaced
great break down and explanation
I'm not a huge fan of the Dune series but I love how it creates a different view of the future without computers.
If thinking machines advance far enough they become prescient and able to find people any place the go
Okay Marty why are you so interested in them anyways
There are computers in Dune.
And if kroft can do some comics will be great,your Voice is great man!the way you narated the stories 🎉🎉🎉
The rise of artificial intelligence is definitely one of the facets in the 'Great Filter'. I've long suspected that extraterrestrial life is out there but have always aired on most of stuff 'travelling around doing stuff' being AI.
They clearly have computers. The technology they have can’t be done without it. What they don’t have is AI controlled machines.
That would go against the very idea of why have a mentat, as you wouldn't need AI to perform their task.
I wouldn't confuse electronics with a computer.
@@spencers4121 what? They have computers. Duncan is flying a fighter like craft on the first movie. The thopters. The sand crawlers. All that stuff uses computers. Not mentants.
Yes, this would be hard to understand if you've just watched the movies. Of course, if you actually read the book, you'll understand completely why this is the case. I think one fault of the movie is that it didn't even MENTION the Butlerian Jihad.
A Mentat was a profession that was developed as a replacement to the computers and thinking machines
Perry cool and good info but I'm just here for the alien prometheus soundtrack.
Excellent, Kroft. Great move on Dune.
The whole part about the voice was not all right, but was kinda... mostly not entirely wrong. Both the Bene Telax and Bene Jesuit evolved their blood lines to aquire a higher degree of self-awareness and control of their own autonomic bodilly functions. The so-called face-dancers, men... could use their will power to change their physical appearance to a more extreme degree. The Women of the Bene Jesuit can do very similar things... their vocal chords can modulate, their vaginas can pulsate so that they have sexual dominance. Both Guilds have overrlapping abilities that evolve over the thousands of years. The Ixians never did stop using computers, they provide all the most advancedd toys to the imperium, great houses, and everyone turns a blind eye... because it's very illegal.
Love to see you doing other franchises kroft.
There are computers - but they are humans. They are called mentats. The films just don’t mention them much. thufir hawat is one but the only mention of it is when his face goes bland and we just see the white of his eyes. Like he vis doing a calculation or something.
The space high liners are guided but navigators - again, not mentioned in the films. They use spice to charter safe passage across space.
Very good explanation thank you for this
Spacing Gild - Spacers // AI war etc... --> Sounds like Dune is the continuation of "Foundation".
I’m pretty sure there are 3d digital projections of the battle on a battle table in dune 2 I remember thinking it looked really cool. That being said it doesn’t show a computer chip or screen which makes sense to me.
Herbert didn't guess, he knew. What we're about to experience with AI has happened in the past and will happen again to us soon. Dune is a metaphor for something else, but what it is exactly I shouldn't reveal. Either you'll bump into the thing that reveals it yourself or not. I'll provide one hint though. Figure out the elusive purpose of cathedrals, and you will be bestowed by understanding of both life itself and consequentially Dune too.
Herbert may have denied it in his time, but he is a prophet. We would do well do read his works and heed his warnings.
Brilliant analysis as always.
All the system is there what they miss is interconnection between systems.
No computers in Krull either (yes it’s sci-fi, the bad guy arrives in a giant stone spaceship)
Please do more and more!
Given how the different species of Dune interacted with each other I would be fearful of AI as well, not sure what we’d do without em 😂
There are a few computers. He uses kind of an AI chat computer in the first movie to learn about the planet It shows some images as well.
That was a image book, basically a encyclopedia.
@@spencers4121 Thanks for the clarification
In the books nothing gets close to ai until Xi starts experimenting in the book God emperor mostly for navigation but other things also.
Article 1 of the Great Convention, "Thou shall not make a machine in the image of a man's mind" therefore; computers, yes, but strictly no AI. The Mentats are those humans who sort of bridge the gap.
This. A “computer” can handle a multitude of data processing tasks with absolutely no emulation of “thought.” So, a machine that carries out a specific task is okay (e.g., managing stealth shield) but a machine that could solve problems requiring anything beyond basic math is what’s prohibited.
In Chapterhouse: Dune, Odraid is using a basic computer to filter a database. She says this computer is illegal. In Heretics of Dune, on Selusa Seconds, the inside of a basic security room with multiple monitors viewing different areas is described as illegal.
I have read all the books many times, and I see no evidence AI is a requirement for illegality. It appears to be a digital\analog issue. It's not clearly stated in the original books by Frank Herbert.
@@jimclark2824 - Which is odd as an analog computer can still be a computer.
@@qdllc Yes. The atomic bomb was designed with an analog computer. Our fingers can be considered an analog computer. Unfortunately, Fran Herbert did not elaborate. I don't consider his son's books cannon. That's just my opinion there.
I'm The Dune Encyclopedia (not cannon, but Frank loved the work) it was software that was banned. That was the part of a computer that resembled a human mind. I choose to believe this interpretation even though it is not cannon.
what is name of background music ?
I really like how he used economics to create science fiction rather than using technological advancement. In a way, he does use technology advancement up to the jihad but after the banishment of A.I. the future became based on religion and economics
Good video as always by Kroft, but that answer should have been in one of the SO OVERRATED movies which explained NOTHING, not just A.I. absence but many more concepts (The Guild, Mentats etc...)...Good sci-fi movies, but forgettable and INCOMPLETE.
I came here to hear your voice😊
There are computers in Dune. There aren't ultra-advanced computers and real Artificial Intelligence. The mentats was persecuted forward in the history because they used artificial intelligence technics in their training and opposed the Emperor.
If people in the West keep fear-mongering about AI then yes AI will become skynet. But if we treat AI like Japanese media does then we will have a future where we live and grow hand-in-hand achieve singularity and expand the stars united as one race
Where's the music from?
I've never heard Bene Gesserit pronounced that way before.
Honest,i Like more the old dune Movie Till now!will see
Is the Bene Gesserit just using an advanced form of placebo effect? It's implied that it's not magic.
Because the books were written in the 60s!
Fantastic video
this is true , our over reliance on AI and robotics in the very near future will probably degrade the largest percentage of the human population despite all the "conveniences" the tech offers, can't wait to see how my comment will age 100 years from now
There is no computers like there is no fashion.
The Mentats are the computers.
it would be all organic computers.
Is Riddick from the Dune universe?
Because screen time encourages laziness and stupidity.
Please kroft do more on dune
It’s only 2024 but I’m already thinking we need to abandon computers
The Mentats are the Computers.
We are the computers... Allan have you seen my abacus 🧮???😂
Also can you let Mr Ozio know we have a meeting tomorrow morning 😅
because Butlerian J-word that's why
This is why Dune is so special, Herbert saw AI years ago
That would make Herbert a prophet.
@@BrutusMyChild lol, not sure about all the but Scifi without computers, even as a teenager when i read that in Dune it was crazy to me,
@@d3mist0clesgee12 If you are unsure whether to believe Herbert was a prophet, that's one of the things he intended from his work. So, I'd say you are doing well. But I'd like to point out that Muad'dib was alive to fool the Fremen. There is a keen difference between a living man falsely claiming that he is a prophet, and a dead prophet who humbly rejected the label in his time. At least scrutinize Herbert's work on the level we once did with Shakespeare and Plato. That way you can decide for yourself and not miss out on useful wisdom.
@@BrutusMyChild Sorry bro, too high brow for me, just looking for great entertainment from genre (plus fantasy) that I love, not gonna lie, didn’t enjoy the rest of the series as much as original, liked most of the prequels, just awesome work
@@d3mist0clesgee12 That's cool, but perhaps consider studying Herbert's work seriously one day. Even if you didn't enjoy it on the first read, you will come to appreciate it's wisdom the more you reread and contemplate it. Until that day comes, what have you read for entertainment recently? For sci-fi, I haven't read anything new in the genre recently, but I have enjoyed Speaker For The Dead during a vulnerable time in my past, and it helped. Have you read that one? How about The Three-Body Problem?
Thanks
OMNIUS LIVES!!!
Please consider using different background music.
Sci-fy? Science Fyction? 🤨 I thought you were an expert..
Kroft lives!!!
Isn’t a computer to narrate this…
there are computers, there is just no AI computers
Beny je-zer-it
So ahead of it's time.
More dune pleaasee LFFGGGG
Butler's Dzihad. what was the purpose of that? 0*0 really leaves no chance. It is possible to grind speculation crap no matter how far into the future, but there is only one possibility. Not at all. So why are you even trying to post this. Now read the whole book again and understand what you are reading????????
What is this song you are using?
The same one he always uses and I love it
It's from Prometheus soundtrack, I think.
It's Atlantis by Audionautix
@@ChompsLewisit's not from a movie, it's a royalty free track, listed under the video.
@@opbroc This one.
Too complicated for me.
21 💪
Ix
Why no Dinosurs in Religious books...😂😂😂
💯 🤔👍
👌
Damn bro, you’re mispronouncing a lot of things and you’ve gotten some of the lore wrong. I would say do your research before you upload a video like this.
I didn't like the remake of dune
dune is so silly
Villinue’s dune is Shite…
FH’s DUNE Forever!
Cuz its a made up sci fi world :D its not like our world, lol.
Frank Herbert was able to foresee what? lol nothing he wrote about happened in real life so you’re kind of reaching there Croft.
You should delete this cause your clearly wrong.
Lmao what?
you're*
You do realise that everyone already knows this, right?
because Dune is overrated bullshit
Too much sand. If it's the future make it look futuristic rather than ancient Egypt.
Your comment made me think of Stargate.