Does Prusa Control Voron?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Why does Prusa have meetings with the Voron team? Could it be that Prusa is leveraging the Voron project as a means to generate sales and attack their perceived enemies without appearing to be the driving force behind it all?
Before anyone actually says it. I know what your criticism is going to be "Dude, Prusa does not control Voron. They are just a friendly open source company being nice to another open source project." My answer is this: Why doesn't the Ratrig have a vocal and toxic group of fanboys? Why isn't Ratrig meeting with Prusa and bragging about it while sucking up to Prusa on Twitter? Who are the team members designing Voron printers? Why did they decide to make the Switchwire and the Enraged Rabbit Carrot Feeder? Everyone knows that bed slingers are inferior to CoreXY, and everyone knows just how dysfunctional the MMU2 is. Why would the Voron team waste their time copying faulty flawed and otherwise bad designs when they already had a killer portfolio of CoreXY designs? The obvious answer is because they are being manipulated by Prusa to make Prusa's products look better in comparison.
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so ad hominem is ok if it's aprons?
ap roninem
@yodasscrotum Here is a sample of the comments I have received in just this video:
"You're a sad sad little man. Get therapy.":
"What drugs are you on?"
"You should really question what this mad man says"
"Nurse! He's out of bed again."
"Man, you need to take your Valium! :))"
"your mental health getting progressively worse bruh"
These qualify as Ad Hominem because all of them attempt to dimish my worth as a person or presenter instead of addressing the validity of my statements.
The assertions I made in the video can be summarized: Conspiracies actually exist. Nobody really likes Prusa, but we are made to think that some people do, He and his company are very large and as such they must manipulate things from the shaddows in order to keep growing. One such manipulation was to grow Voron and use it for Decoy Pricing.
To fight against me and not engage in Ad Hominem you must dispute or disprove the assertions I made in the video. Attacking my person instead of addressing the points I made is Ad Hominem.
I addressed anything of value which NERO said. I called him out for his bad behavior laughing at me for having a conspiracy theory before admitting that he is part of the conspiracy. Wearing an Apron is a statement. Just like wearing a MAGA hat is a statement. By showing how stupid it is to wear an Apron when 3D printing I am attacking the statement not the man. "Hominem" literaly means man in latin. I attacked his attire becuase it is a stupid statement.
You are guilty of playing politics and ignoring truth. You just want your team to win. You try to use my own words against me because I'm winning. I'm winning because I serve the truth and the greater good. STOP PLAYING TEAM POLITICS. I don't care if you like me or not. Just acknowledge the trugh and see the other players for their flaws. All you do is attack me instead of asking if Prusa is a good thing for the hobby of 3D printing and if NERO isn't just a lackey for Prusa. You don't care how wrong your team is as long as you win. You are ruled by ugly emotions. What's worse is the fact that I got two of this same comment within a minute of eachother. You are on some other forum forming a mob to hate on me. This is like gang rape. I'm just one guy here. Does this behavior make you feel powerful?
@@DesignPrototypeTest dude it's not on us to disprove you, it's on you to prove you're right, if we're talking logic.
i don't see any proofs, only your distorted imagination interpreting social media.
Also, what are you winning exactly?
@@DesignPrototypeTest It is silly to wear a shop apron to 3d print, I sometimes don't even wear pants :)
@@CrazyT0sser if you can't see how subjectively not his opinions and feelings he hasn't proved how toxic this community is going after him because he told the truth and then questioned why other people that should have done the same don't other RUclipsrs aside it's not anyone else's fault you don't understand how he didn't very clearly show this garbage going on and yes the burden of Truth is on the Accuser so if he makes a claim and then gets this same BS from people like you who make a claim and then he makes another video showing you how he comes to his conclusion if you don't want to believe it it becomes your burden of you or don't say it at all
Dude... let it go.. be happy.. do things that you love. Spread love instead of this. You will live much happier.
If you are engineering minded and find politics to be "toxic" it is best to not engage even for a minute. I've never heard from you before. Your statement here makes me question your involvement and motivation. If you want to facilitate me making content which isn't "toxic" how about rewarding my technical content by commenting positively on those videos when I release them. Leaving comments on my "toxic" content encourages me to make more videos like this.
@@DesignPrototypeTest i want to understand you standpoint.
How is voron competing with prusa? The target groups are verry different. Voron is a diy project for tinkerers and prusa is more of the tun key method for the people that want a tool that works (of course you can build your prusa yourself if you choose to). Prusa gives you a working product and most importanty the security of service, wich is key to people who want to use their machines as tools and don´t have time or interest in figuring out their machines, something you won´t get with vorons.I just don´t see the connections between the two, especially because voron isn´t an actual company that would be interested in profit.
And what was the point with the apron? i didn´t get it
@@DesignPrototypeTest you are right.. its best not to engage.. ill focus on on more positive things.
@@derbacksteinbacker4942 There aren't many options available these days for Kit printers with a really good reputation on the Internet. If a DIY minded person wants to build a Kit and end up with a great printer. He would go on the internet and see what people had to say. Since nobody is talking about Railcore anymore and hardly anyone talks about Ratrig, It is most likely he would narrow his choices down to the Voron or a Prusa. He only needs one printer. He chooses the Voron. That means that Prusa just lost a sale. Now, think about how many printers Prusa sells. If only 10% of guys choose Voron over I3 that comes to $670,000 PER MONTH in lost revenue. If you don't think this is a big deal to Prusa, you don't understand business.
@@DesignPrototypeTest another option would be a VzBoT :p
LOL.... I don't think you have to worry about other creators hurting your image. You're doing a fine job all by yourself..
DPTs fixation on putting down every popular 3dprinter company is getting out of hand.
How is that a problem when a channel built for the community to show what printers and what companies are worth buying or dealing with how is that a bad thing maybe you should think of other RUclips channels which I'm not even going to name they do nothing but either get paid for reviews which whatever they want to be independent advertisement companies fine but even when they tell you they weren't paid for something a lot of them just seem like they want what all the other guys want people to watch their shit they take popular Trends and make videos of them what they don't show you or most of the time anyway is they had to deal with the same exact problems with hey almost $1,000 prusa printer as they did a $200 Ender 3 it's not a fixation it's not a complaining it's him throwing us a bone to not waste almost $1,000 on a printer that we can pop Parts off of a $200 printer that are going to be for your average person no difference
Yes. Actually the 2:1 dislike to like on this video is shockingly positive. I would have expected 10:1 dislike to like.
please use punctuation
The Voron comunity is litterally the most helpful comunity i can think of, i spent hours and hours on the discord figuring out what´s wrong with my build and they never were disrespectful or something like that in any way, they were juist patiently helping me until i got it right.
I love hearing these stories from people 😃. 3d printing in general has been one of the most positive hobbies and groups. I came to Voron for the printer. And ended up staying for the community.
The only time I've ever seen them be disrespectful is when it was deserved. IE: People asking for advice, being given advice, disregarding said advice and then bitching and telling people that they're wrong or demanding more help when the previous given help was ignored.
The Voron community is awesome. If there is a negative corner in the 'Voron community' it's the klipper enthusiasts... That said, even the overwhelming majority of the klipper guys are awesome too!
The Voron community is one unlike any I’ve ever been a part of. If you come to them with a problem, then they genuinely want to help you resolve it. And, the kindness and patience they extend is extremely contagious, because everyone can relate, and has been there.
A lot of people would disagree with you. Good printers the community holds it back though some of the most toxic people I ever had to deal with. If your not an engineer or wanna be engineer your pretty much trash. Nero is the only reason why I have a trident he’s a good dude.
I think you’re way overthinking it. Prusa knows they still have a big corner of the market. A lot of people are not willing to put in the time and effort or even possess the ability to assemble and get a voron up and running. Prusa prides itself on ease of setup and reliability. Prusa having involvement with voron is just them supporting the community as a whole and shows they have interest in other parts aside from just what they are doing. It’s good for the community.
I worry you are dealing with other issues outside of this and I hope you can find help. I wish you the best.
Most of people who ask me for recommendations for 3d printers they specifically ask me for least amount of tinkering with the printer, they don't want even prusa kits.
If you were suggesting Prusa has a vested interest in Voron’s success as a way to capitalize from the open source development and innovation that comes out of the Voron community, I could entertain that idea. But saying a corexy Voron is intentionally needlessly difficult to build as part of Prusa’s marketing plan to incentivize people to buy a cartesian Prusa seems pretty bonkers.
I want to preface this by saying I’ve been a subscriber for a while now and have always valued your opinion, but this seems startlingly reactionary and deep into the field of conjecture. I do not own a Prusa, though I have used them.
You brought up Prusa’s sales figures for an unknown reason and are intentionally quoting numbers in gross sales, not trying to calculate net profit.
There’s a big difference between having met someone or knowing someone versus actively working with someone, especially as this seems to be the basis for your claims.
I don’t understand how you got the impression Voron presents themselves as the only platform for input shaping, it’s widely known input shaping can be used on any printer.
It’s much easier to buy a Prusa than a Voron because… Voron doesn’t sell printers, they design them and support vendors in the community who supply kits. Selling printers is not a Voron priority. This has made the market more competitive and better for consumers as there are multiple Voron kits available from reputable suppliers at varying price points rather than one option from Prusa.
I really wish I could understand your perspective and point of view as it seems you really believe what you’re saying. I would love to see you get back to sharing your true passions, and I hope that doesn’t mean more videos like this :(
Thank you. Extremely well said.
Nailed it. Thanks
Voron taking 40 hours to build and Prusa Mk3s being 8 hours to build is the only piece of information in this video that is real, everything else in the video is astrology and chicken intestines.
And tea leaves.
Your subscriber number is probably plummeting. You probably are blaming it on prusa and his bots. However, your tinfoil rants are NOT what we have all subbed for... please go back to your old content before we all eventually find someone new who is doing interesting innovative
printer content.
Ps: marlin does NOT have input shaping.
I'm on my 4th Voron. I wouldn't buy a Prusa. I have nothing against them. The fun, for me, is in the building of it. Klipper also isn't specific to Voron at all. You can run it on just about any printer. Voron is popular because some 3D printing people like to build as much as print, and the Voron printers are excellent machines, if you build them properly. You can also take as little or as much time as you like to do it.
And prusa is popular because because some people just want to print and want the simplest and yet reliable printer
Marlin doesn't have input shaping like klipper or reprap or at least if it has it for the last year and it's definitely not that easy to set up. Reprap has it (I am not sure if it had it before klipper), but you can't run reprap on cheap machines without having to spend a lot of money for the boards and basically use their ecosystem. (for you it might be worth it but for others spending 100+ for a new board when you can even use an old phone and rig up klipper on it ) This basically makes klipper a TON more accessible for the average tinkerer. Toxic communities exist about everything so calling the klipper community toxic is a great generalization.
So for this fact you said, I disagree. Yes, there might be conspiracies and people are in it to make money(shady guys as well), but not everything that doesn't agree with your opinion is a conspiracy.
What the hell dude? Although I didn't always agree with you, I respected your opinions. Now, I am basically done listening. Even if you are correct about everything you say...
(Feel free to call me a prusa guy if you like) I only have an ender 3 for the last couple of years, with klipper on it. Call me a hater or whatever you want.
Also Klipper was just the flavor they chose to put on voron it doesn't mean you can't run anything else on a voron like installing a duet or running marlin or octoprint ect. Nero himself had to make numerous videos on the Klipper community to stop the toxicity so I don't undestand the bashing of voron for the Klipper community, I've personally never had any issues with toxicity with Klipper either,but to each there own.
GloomyAndy helped put together a port to run Reprap on a few different SKR boards. My steel prusa clone runs on that exact setup with a WIFI module plugged in. It's quite nice, though you are more limited in the number of bed mapping points that you can use due to lack of available RAM and there is no way to run a screen that I am aware of using this type of connection. This allows for replaceable drivers, which is quite nice also.
I run several Vorons. I hate Prusa. I don't see any connection between the 2. Also If you search for the MOST watched voron 2.4 build series -- no klipper, no input shaping. He got quite a bit of flack for it from the klipper community, despite the voron community supporting him in the build. They really don't care which firmware you run. Klipper is simply the recommendation and where they focused their own documentation efforts. I agree with a ton of stuff you say on your channel, but this time I think the tin hat comments take it. You are going nuts as of late. Makes me question any thing else you've said on you channel. Chill out and go back to making interesting build-relation content.
You should really question what this mad man says 😅
I mean this isn’t his first time… you must be insane to be subscribed at all.
So you're saying that Voron is the Prusa of CoreXY... LOL
@@retromodernart4426 learn to read. I specifically stated there is no connection and that I hate prusa printers. they are overpriced pieces of shit. if a voron was a prusa core xy, I'd likely not own them.
Nuno And 14 q literally sound like sock puppets... Not people
There is no official Voron kit, you have to source and buy all the parts yourself. There are some Chinese companies that have assembled kits but there is no official Voron kit. You are basing that Voron and Prusa are the same based off them saying they have met with a Voron people? I have met with Microsoft people before, does not make me part of Microsoft? Not sure how you are linking them together, not saying they are not but if you go to the official Voron discord a lot of the people in there are not all that fond of Prusa printers.
There was at one time. Interesting history. The original run when it was early in the process. When RCF was still thinking about making it a company. There are exactly 20 VK printers that exist. Drop in the discord it's interesting.
RRF has only recently supported inputting shaping and I don't think Marlin supports it. I think you are thinking on Pressure Advance/linear advance.
Marlin has the S-curve acceleration which is the close enough attempt.
@@instazx2 you think S-Curve is like input shaper?
@@95LegendGS nope, just that it's the closest Marlin offers
RRF "input shaper" is quite inferior in comparison to Klipper too.
There isn't good reason not to use Klipper if you are running RPi for octoprint. Zero2 will run both Klipper and Octoprint just fine. :p
That Nero3dp response doesn't say anything about the voron team working with prusa. He simply said that they've met members of prusa staff and that they do not have an antagonistic relationship... Ultimately RCF controls voron with HUGE input from the voron design team. (Voron design is very open about how they are structured and most of it happens in public view right on the discord), Voron is also an open source project, I can't recall off the top of my head exactly what license they use (I think it's gnu gpl if i'm not mistaken which would mean if you don't like what's going on, you can fork it so long as you attribute the original work back to the voron design team and include full sources for both unmodified and modified versions.)
saying that voron is controlled by prusa is like saying hp is in control of dell because they don't hate each other and have similar designs in the same market.
GPLv3.
okay mr DPT - Why don't you show us how the Voron designs could be simplified? Don't chat without anything to back up your claim.
I am subscribed to your channel and have been watching your videos for a while now. I've liked quite a few that regarded actual 3D printing tech and not ones regarding Prusa. I don't own an actual Prusa, but I do own a steel knockoff frame that Orballo made that I cobbled into a decent printer using a Turbo 1.4 mainboard etc. Prusa hasn't made dime one off of me and I'm not a fanboy. I've watched Nero's channel as well. He comes off as acerbic, but genuinely does seem to want to help the community while making a living from it just like you do (nothing wrong with that).
With all those qualifiers out of the way, the Voron team are all strong 3D Print enthusiasts and they likely met Prusa while separately walking around at various MRRF or other maker-centric gathering places over the years. That is almost certainly what Nero meant. I doubt there was some formalised meeting where the Voron guys all packed up to meet with Prusa specifically. I don't think the Voron guys have even met each other as a group to be honest. I get that Nero upset you with the GIF, but it just seems like you spun out of control on this. Lotsa people in the comments trying to steer you back towards 3d Printer content and away from whatever this is with Prusa. Just saying...
Both of you are rationalizing something which has no need to. These statements from the video warrant no attention. It's ridiculous.
@@eraldylli why do you care? Someone made a video talking about something, if people choose to watch and respond that's up to them. No one asked you to chime in on what is and isn't worth discussing.
@@Schwift3DSo, by that logic I'd say to you... Why do YOU care? No one asked YOU to chime in.
@@Schwift3D How do you go from "if people choose to watch and respond that's up to them" then to "no one ask you to chime in". I thought it was up to him. Logic fail
This creator seems to be having a paranoia induced psychotic break, I don't know (that seems extreme). He has seriously gone down hill with this Prusa obsession lol.
Marlin does not support Input shaping
the voron community isn't toxic......
also marlin doesn't have input shaper, I know as marlin does not as I use marlin on my printer
The current like/dislike ratio is 75% dislikes. Dude is a man child that mocked someone for wearing an apron, spent hours trash talking prusa, then got mad over 2 GiFs.
He isnt mocking him for wearing an apron, he is saying that Nero is an Influencer so wearing the apron to appear like he has more authority then he really does.
You are so obsessed with Prusa.. please do your own stuff
Prusa Fans are obsessed With their overpriced 3d printed parts frame dinosaur printers 😂👌
Exactly, Who cares who works with who... Its all open source and that's the meaning of open source is to share.. This guy is just butt hurt he isn't invited to anything because his videos are jokes..
The normal content is much better than these rants, anyway, i'll keep on suscribed by now.
@Yeetman I mean it's a 5year old printer lol can't be more outdated than that. Bamboo is clearly better rn but why compare the two it's like comparing galaxy s8 and google pixel 7.
Met != Collaborate. I have met the prime minister of Australia, doesn't mean we work together.
Oh God I had to stop laughing to be able to type. Joseph Prusa built a good reprap printer. Voron built a good reprap printer. There is mutual respect between them. That does not need a conspiracy theory to explain that. This is what happens when people have mutual respect for each other. And I can say I don't take any marching orders from Joseph Prusa I work on what I want to within Voron. And Voron is not a company. We participate because we want a platform to drive the hobby forward for all members. You should take the relationship between the 2 groups as an example of how civilized people behave. Instead of making up conspiracy and unverified claims. It's literally that simple. Why does a respectful interaction between too groups seem so strange to you? And I know you had to have started this video before it came out. The Prusa family is grieving a loss in their family. And I very much think the respectful thing to have done was to have waited to release this video. I hope that I am wrong and you were just unaware. I think you should learn to build bridges in the community instead of running around with this chip on your shoulder.
Well said!!
The growth of interest in Voron is due in large part to the more than 500,000 views of Tom Sanladerer's video, where he calls it "My new favorite 3D printer" ruclips.net/video/0E0dM0ZdpRE/видео.html
and CNC Kitchen's video, 495,000 views where he calls his V0 "awesome" ruclips.net/video/4VSu_gG-nlk/видео.html
Voron printers are not for everyone. They are designed by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. Enthusiasts see a complicated and well documented 30-40 hour build as a challenge, not a cost. Maybe you should try building one?
Voron’s great aesthetic draws lots of appeal, and the machines have the performance and features to actually back up the looks. The BOM and instructions are beautiful and well laid out. It’s marketing 101 honestly. Aesthetics + performance + good documentation = successful open-source project.
Someone wearing an apron in a shop isn't any weirder than wearing one to bake. It's a simple and easy way to keep yourself clean and prevent "bits" from hitchhiking everywhere else. Makes a big difference any time you're working with oils, dust (filing), etc
Not to mention carrying any tools ( including small flash lights ) you might carry while printing)
I’ve never owned a Prusa. I built a Voron from scratch and also own a heavily modified MPM mini delta. And in it sided to own a SeeMeCNC Rostock v max 2.
No Prusa isn’t behind Voron. Voron isn’t complicated, unless you build the Voron 2. The Voron 1, and the Voron trident and the Voron 0, and the Voron switch wire are all simple printers.
Marlin doesn’t have input shaping, maybe you are thinking of pressure advance?
Klipper got so popular, because it has the performance of the Duet boards on much cheaper hardware.
Now it can’t do some of the non-printer stuff Duet can do (like cnc carving), but it’s very good software.
Or the solution is even simpler: Prusa and Voron have a good relationship as they are in two different niches of the market, so they are not competitors. Someone who buys a Prusa will never consider building a Voron as an alternative and vice versa, as someone who builds a gaming pc won't consider buying a macbook air.
All the major diy 3d printer communities will probably behave toxicly with you if you tell them you want to build one of their printers but with Marlin or RepRap, there's an abyss of distance to Klipper! The software is an extremely important part of the printer, to continue with pc analogy it's like if you wanted to get a brand new macbook air M2 to install macOS 9, asking on the forums a lot of useless questions on how to install it and making it to work.
And no, marlin doesn't have input shaping at all, RepRap has something, but comparing it to what Klipper have is like a joke, Klipper basically allows you to double acceleration and speed while increasing a lot print quality, it's like magic! But it would be really cool if you wanted to take all 3 firmwares and making a video comparing this feature!
If you ever get the chance to attend an event like MRRF/ERRF/RAPID etc, its amazing, the vast majority of people in the 3dp community and these companies just wanna make cool things and hang out and chat. There are many different ways to make a plastic boat.
@@CanuckCreator no you’re wrong everyone is toxic and under our prusa overlords 😂
@@CanuckCreator I have seen your coverage of the latest MRRF, probably nowhere near to being there, but the atmosphere of friendliness and cooperation was still palpable. It couldn't have been remotely possible if it would have been between toxic communities or people conspiring behind the users to seek for a profit increase.
This is funny... I have a mk3s+ built by prusa, a voron 2.4, v0 and a trident on the way. I also build my own gaming machines but I also have a Macbook Air xD
@@panzarkatten Of course, but when you decided to buy a Prusa you were undecided between it and a Voron and vice versa? And you didn't know if you wanted a gaming pc or a macbook? They fill different use cases, but nothing prevents you to have both needs.
The Voron 2.4 is so damn good. It's like a professional machine for a reasonable price.
Really sad to see wasting your time against Prusa!
Really sad seeing you waste your time saying a comment like this to someone who has clearly showed this toxic Community attacking him for a subjective review of a company and how they truthfully take advantage of their customers
@@MrCAPSco "truthfully take advantage of their customers" LOL I have both a voron AND a prusa, where the fuck was I taken advantage of. Please tell me.
Or better yet, which back alley did YOU get taken advantage off? Where did the prusa man touch you?
I’ve been running klipper on a tevo tornado for years. Input shaper is definitely nice. Pretty easy to setup too.
Yea I run input shaper on my ender 6 which t does make a difference for sure
Can we stop with the prusa videos, I don’t want to unsubscribe be because I like your reviews but this is getting annoying to be honest.
As for the subject of this video imo I don’t care if prusa has a leg or an arm in voron as long as I can build one I’m fine with that, I just finished building my V0.1 two days ago and it was so much fun and the print quality is amazing.
But I would hold nothing agents anyone buying a prusa sure there is a better bang for the buck in China but that’s the case for many things so I’m fine with it
What are you going to do with your old Prusa can I buy it for parts?
Since when does Marlin have input shaping? What define in configuration.h would I have to look for? For me it at this time is THE reason for using Klipper. Sure, the WoW with config file editing on the Pi and after a firmware restart seeing the effect has some appeal, but the requirement of always needing a Pi is also a major drawback of Klipper vs. Marlin. So, if Marlin has input shaping now, I'd love to know more ...
Thank you for this correction. RRF does have input shaping but apparently Marlin does not yet have the feature. I don't think your comment was inferring anything but just to nip the issue in the bud I want to make it clear that this MINOR incorrectness in the video in no way affects my overall narrative or even the specific point I was making when I said Marlin has input shaping.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Bummer. I would have loved Marlin finally getting input shaper. I wonder whether current STM32F1 boards would really be insufficiently powerful for coping with the needed math.
What happened to the great printer test videos you used to do? Always this tinfoil hat shit now ;/
Can you prove him wrong can you prove it's tin foil hot shit because he's proved it's not he's obviously not someone who takes disrespect and lies down like you do he's not complacent he'll defend himself at the cost of hearing stupid shit from people man that's respectable even when he tries to drop and let go of this issue and he does a normal printer review or design some new parts he still gets prusa trolls trying to ruin his channel so you can't blame someone that has to deal with other people's problems you didn't start this but I guarantee he will finish it maybe you've never stood up for yourself in your lifetime I don't know but he is no punk on the playground he's the only one that subjectively shows how Prussia has been taking advantage of people for a long time the beginning of Prussia seemed pretty honest and innocent and for the community but at a certain point that changed prusa changed now he's no better than any fucking other maker by ultimaker company that takes advantage of people selling printers that aren't any better literally are not any better than a printer you can build yourself for a fraction of the price or even a printer you can buy from creality for a fraction of the price sorry but start to search prusa printers problems you'll see there no better than any other printer but you're paying so fucking much more for him I'd rather buy two Ender threes spend a couple hundred bucks on each of them still come in less than a piece of shit I3 from Prussia double my workflow with the same Quality Parts I respect everyone's opinion until you make comments like tin foil hat shit when he's clearly proven unfair treatment towards him and his channel for his own valid opinion of how garbage the quality per the price of these garbage printers
Exactly this! He had really great content regarding testing and modding (his delta printers).
Nero saying they've met Prusa doesn't mean they work with him.
Maker community is huge and small at the same time. You'll met the same folks time and time again in different maker events.
You've dug way too deep, man.
Also, you saying that Prusa is way too complicated to build when it's clear that you don't read the manuals perfectly and blame it on Prusa's complexity says that you don't know how to follow instructions, even if you've built a lot of printers.
I have subscribed to your channel for a reasonably long time and while I'm not serious, I'm not joking either. So, we all know like anything conspiracies exist but not all theories are accurate... So here is probably an absurd theory but wanted to throw out there just because and not as an insult either... Here goes..."You actually work for Prusa, because by creating drama and steering your content away from technical, you mention Prusa's name more than videos that talk positively of Prusa..... And by being so extremely negative, people will not believe you but by hearing Prusa name over and over in your video, now what are people going to leave your video with.... Prusa on the brain and if they do, they're own research mostly positive stuff will pop up.... like you said when they balance out quality vs cost vs time to first print Prusa hits an easily marketable sweet spot.... Anyways I as mentioned in previous posts I thoroughly enjoy your tech breakdown but do tire of hearing the same old rehash..... I wish you well and keep holding on for more techy stuff, I hope you find this theory both preposterous and funny.
I love it! Isn't it funny that this comment makes me happy. Your theory is as good as mine and even if it gets my motivations wrong it might actually be true by outcome. Good thinking!
Since when marlin has input shaper?
And RRF input shaper isn’t has good as klipper lol
You clearly have no idea what you talk about.
call me crazy, but saying that you held meetings with some other business does not imply that you are working on a complex marketing operation along them.
When you're supposed to be a non-profit and you 'have talks' with a business(in context of contract work).. It sounds and smells even worse considering that Prusa doesn't have anything to contribute towards Voron, but everything to leech from Voron. 🧐
@@fenrir4046 no where does anyone say they "held meetings" or have "had talks" with Prusa. They have met Josef and other Prusa employees at events, just like they've met a lot of people at events. Meeting someone and meeting with someone are two different things. The amount of straw grasping here is absurdly ridiculous. Also, Voron is not a non-profit, which implies it's a business.
I'll retort this bit by bit here and tell you why you're wrong.
1:50 -- Josef isn't unlikable. Have you ever been to MRRF? Because I haven't seen you. But I've seen Josef there. And you know how many people are eager to talk with him, including me? -- He's got a bit of an odd personality, but many of us do. He's Czech, and you simply don't understand the culture that exists there. This misunderstanding is what makes him feel "Unlikable" to you. No man behind a curtain, he just simply has existed since the early days of RepRap (btw, have you ever built a Sells mendel? Because Prusa is the guy who made that whole thing much more approachable...hence his popularity). He knows his shit, from an engineering perspective - mechanical, electrical, and otherwise.
2:00 -- This is an argumentative fallacy. Just because conspiracies exist, does not make _your_ conspiracy theory true. This is a tactic that people who spread disinformation regularly use.
2:10 - 2:53 - "Prusa is raking in". Another misdirected fallacy. You are using gross revenue, before expenses (net revenue) to argue that Prusa is some sort of gigantic corporate overlord. Litter this with "I think they" and "but they sell filament" and using that to make these hugely inflated claims is just rife with bias. Another - common - tactic that disinformation artists use.
5:31 - The same reason you don't understand Prusa's "likeability" is the same reason you don't understand the Voron. There's a group of core enthusiasts who have existed for 12+ years at this point (myself included) - including names like Nophead, Triffid_Hunter, Adrian Bowyer, Whosawhatsis, Thomas Sanladerer, Gina Haubage, and god...I have like 100 other names that I could go on listing from my Hangouts (a remnant of the G+ era) that basically drive this space. We're what you CLAIM to be. We are all the OGs in the space who didn't have chinese vendors available to us at the time in order to get cheap parts. We're the people who bought everything at Home Depot, and Lowes, and junk yards and scrap yards just in order to get some rickety garbage to move. Some of us had to order our own microcontrollers and etch PCBs ourselves for the first machines to come to life. We failed, and failed, and failed over and over and over and over again - so that you could stand on our shoulders with easy to use machines and not ever have to think about why overconstraining your Z axis is a stupid as fuck idea, or why screwless-ball-bearings are dumb, etc. Many of us still enjoy doing this, and advancements in the space such as the things that the Voron are doing, are exciting to this core group of people. Sorry that your shit-talking people on RUclips doesn't seem to be driving any major statistics yet.
6:01 - Uh, no - neither of them had input shaping. Even now Marlin doesn't. You are grossly misinformed. RRF only released input shaping in APRIL of 2022. Marlin still doesn't have it as far as I'm aware - so you need to fact check yourself. Here again, you make a dishonest argument. Marlin has resonance compensation, but does _not_ have the level of feature parity that Klipper has in its implementation. Klipper has had this feature for a long time, and it only just recently became available on RRF; which is a terrible ecosystem to begin with. Nobody in their right fucking mind wants to use 15 different files to configure their machine through various .g files and impossible-to-remember M-codes. So, RepRapFirmware sucks ass - and Klipper doesn't. Wow who would have thought that everyone would want to use Klipper! What a conundrum! How ever will we figure out how this happened?!
6:57 - This shows clearly your true colors. Voron isn't a competitor to Prusa. You don't understand the community at all. It isn't a commercial venture. None of us see each other as enemies like you've grown accustomed to out in the normal world. EVERY...SINGLE...ONE...OF...US...ARE...PROFESSIONAL...FRIENDS. We aren't out to eat each others lunch. We're here to grow and adopt and expand the thing we love so much. You don't understand the community. You are obviously not a part of the community. You're a confused, sad little man who's out of the loop and you're screaming at the world because you don't get it.
8:31 - I do more than 1400 printer repairs/rebuilds/refits (including kits like the Tronxy, Prusa, Voron, custom Deltas, etc) in a year at my shop. So wow...you've done 8.
9:02 - Again - showing you don't understand the community whatsoever. Voron isn't some massive outfit dude. They aren't venture-capitalists looking to spin up a new product and hiring engineers to spin up slaves in China. People doing 3D printing are just your average every-day first-world person with a real job on the side.
9:44 - Decoy pricing only works like this if it's a similar product. You can't put a 2 door economy out for $15k on the market, and use a $100k supercar as your "Decoy Pricing". Not how this works, and you're grasping at straws at this point. Prusa's product line doesn't overlap with Voron. They sell kits of the Prusa; sure - but the reasons for that have more to do with Prusa's roots in the DIY community. Prusa has mentioned to the community many times that he wanted to stop producing it, because in terms of wasteful spending - the Prusa kit almost loses them money in the amount of ridiculous support that the people usually end up needing, etc. He even played with the idea of maybe making the DIY kit MORE than the preassembled kit due to how much extra it was costing them in support.
10:50 - what kind of asinine leap of logic is that? You can't even read a direct quote as it's meant to be read? No wonder he's laughing at you...
11:35 -- what? If you come from a prior job where you've learned to use an apron, why is it that far fetched that someone would feel comfortable doing so working with other machines? This is again, an odd leap.
12:37 - dude...I already told you who "we" are. We...are not you. You are _not_ part of the 3D printing community. I've never seen you at a Midwest RepRap Festival, East Coast RepRap festival, MakerFaire, or anything of the like. I've never heard anyone in the community even mention your name. Who even are you anyhow? You've been doing this for 5 years and all you've managed to do is make enemies? Why would you even continue this? It's obvious nobody likes your behavior.
13:31 - Josef, not an admirable person you say? He designs all of his stuff as open source, has had many millions of people congeal around him because of his repertoire into communities that passively - without any coordination from Josef himself - praise him and his products, and that's not admirable? Oh you doth protest too much sir. Sounds like haters gonna hate. And baiters gonna bait. Keep up the rage-bait videos for your channel, it seems to be working.
People aren't attracted to the man. They are attracted to the aura of success. You as well just wanted to touch the upper echelon of your hobby. If Prusa didn't occupy the position you would not find anything to like about him.
Jeebus, every one of your assertions that I've read so far is wrong. How can you expect me to believe that you are an earnest person? Being this wrong can't happen by chance. You must have an agenda. A need to defend the indefensible. I'm going to waste my time and go through your comment point by point. You think the things you said are hard hitting? You are just an ideologue defending an egotist. Here we Go:
>Just because conspiracies exist, does not make your conspiracy theory true.
I never said it did. I made the statement because I don't want my theory to be dismissed out of hand by being labeled as a conspiracy theory. This is the CHEATING TACTIC that Josef is using on me by refusing to talk to me and instead posting memes comparing me to Alex Jones and insinuating that I am a conspiracy theorists who's words cannot be believed. Shame on you for twisting this in Josef's favor and making it sound like I said things I did not say.
>"Prusa is raking in". Another misdirected fallacy.
NO! it's not. Prusa's gross revenue is the very definition of "Raking in." If you said "He raked in $1000 at the casino" nobody would assume you had accounted for taxes, or deducted the tip he paid to the Limo driver. They would know you meant that he got $1000 in winnings and walked out the Casino doors with that money.
>Voron...There's a group of core enthusiasts
Mmy channel has a group of core enthusiasts too. My patron account has hundreds of names in it. Why am I not nearly as talked about on the internet as Voron? Why is the dominant narrative not as positive. Forget about me. Why isn't the Ratrig nearly as successful? There are hundreds of people who have been associated with that project too.
>We're what you CLAIM to be.
OH I GET IT! You take my very existence to be an affront to your ego. I never said anything about you. I never insulted you or hurt anything that you love (except Prusa). You have no right to be mad at me. You are projecting onto me your problems and dissatisfaction with your life. Now that I know this I'm not going to waste any more of my time. I hope you start to feel better about yourself. The first step is to stop comparing yourself to strangers on the internet.
@@DesignPrototypeTest ratirig a is company and not a community. Oh well and the usual tactics just cherry picking on what you answer.
Dude! Terrific assessment. I'm standing on my desk, applauding! Well, _metaphorically_ I am.
Just a word of warning: you can't argue with stupid and you can't reason with crazy.
@@DesignPrototypeTest "You as well just wanted to touch the upper echelon of your hobby." -- Nobody knew who the hell Prusa even WAS back when I first met him. So your assertion there is wrong. Like your entire premise of the video.
All I’ll say is this: it’s difficult to be able to critique something fairly unless the thing under scrutiny exists in your hands.
So, buy a Voron kit from one of the suppliers (I’d recommend LDO) and (using the points you made in this video) see whether your claims are grounded, or unfounded. (In so far as being needlessly complex, whether the design is able to be simplified, etc.)
Oh, and the apron? Nero’s clothes were getting caught in and chewed up on the edge of the bench resulting in holes getting torn into them. So, instead of needing to constantly purchase new clothes, the apron was purchased as a wear-resistant layer to prevent that from happening.
Marlin does not have input shaper. Reprap firmware only just got a somewhat limited implementation of input shaper.
I don’t agree with your suppositions about voron being a prusa puppet - I’ve spent a lot of time in a bunch of the discord communities like voron, Doomcube, annex, vez3D etc. These printers have mostly developed organically. Yes voron and annex have core members who have started those communities. Yes some of those core members have met with prusa, but that’s only been fairly recently.
The switchwire exists because someone thought corexz was a cool idea and decided to design one using some of the voron design principals. Reading more into it that that is just wildly off base speculation.
I agree the voron community can be toxic, but literally every large community I’ve found(and it’s far larger than rat rig) trends that way. That’s why so many other communities have spun off in recent years. And those communities are where the really cool stuff is happening. Lots of people like me trying new cool concepts to see what we can make work.
I’ve built two printers that could be considered vorons but they have been so heavily reworked and re-designed by me and using the work of others they can’t really be called vorons.
I’d love to see so videos from you about the new shop, the sorts of 3d projects you’ve been working on and any new 3d printer related things you’ve been working on.
There are a bunch of toxic fanboys saying “voron is the best”. Objectively not true, at least not any more, there are better projects. But this kind of fanboyism happens every time a community gets large. It’s no different to die hard apple/android, windows/mac, intel/amd, nvidia/amd, gm/ford/Japanese cars/European cars/Tesla etc. someone designs a good thing and it gets big, you get toxic fanboys. Such is life
@@The.MrFish hey can you mention some of the better than voron options? i am curious? vzbot & ratrig come to mind.
You know part of the reason why no body takes you seriously and just makes jokes about you is simply because, when ever some new part of the community makes a joke, about some of the ridiculous things you say, they have to be part of the grand prusa conspiracy. The Idea that simply holding a meeting with another entity means you are working with them is absurd, I have meat several restaurant managers, some of them have given me advice, but by no means do i work for them. It Could be that Josef prusa, is a guy who wants to see 3d printing expand, who knows, But claiming that voron is a marketing tool is just crazy. In that tweet, you said, voron has done more damage to prusa than you had, So why would any smart company decide to market something that cannibalizes their own product sales, without any replacement revenue, because voron doesn't sell and offical kits. But yeah nah, voron is marketing tool. People like prusa aren't making fun of you because you are getting at the dark roots of the some huge cover up, but because you have become a meme. You will and already do blame so much stuff on prusa, that anyone who takes a step back recognizes that prusa had nothing to do with it. A creality rep, could make fun of you and your next video would be about how creality are in bed with prusa. Please, take some time off and re-exam your situation. Look at the dragon lord situation in germany to get a view of how the 3d printing community looks at you
Lots of people take me seriously.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Who does, I am not saying to be mean or anything, I genuinely haven't seen a single person take you seriously. And that's all you have to say about the points I brought up
Just got this comment:
@DPT Laid out a coherent argument, with examples, clearly said which parts are factual and which parts are his observations, and why.
Perfectly reasonable.
He has been responded to with ridicule, that even if true is immaterial to his argument and certainly doesn't get anywhere near close to starting to refute him.
It's a pity so many are slaves to bootlicking, running-dog fanboi-ism - maybe that's why we have a diapered vegetable as POTUS, the UK has a perverse, degenerate, usurping, german nazi family as hereditary tyrants over them, etc.
@DPT doesn't like the hype and BS, is compelled to publicize it.
That doesn't make him insane, it makes him a Man of Principle.
Obviously mid-wit neuters can't grasp this concept...
@@DesignPrototypeTest Yeah some of those comments miss the mark, but you still haven't provided a response to the counter points that I laid out, I guess you are right, there are some people who do take you seriously
Yeah. I didn't get beyond your first line which was a text book "ad populum." You've shown that you are a cheater. It would be a mistake to earnestly engage with you.
I would really like to see someone build a tech2c hyper cube and then a voron and see the difference if any. Also try to build voron style gantry with less parts
I think this was where you jumped the shark bro.
someone took some crazy pills.
Ratrig isn't free open source, they switched to a cc-nc license some time ago.
He seems so nuts also making absolutely no sense at all.
Last point I want to make. Is Voron has a open community if you have questions. You can ask. It might help to ask questions have some sources.
You're seeing enemies and attacks where there are none. Just take up yoga or something. Be better to yourself. A part of me thinks you do these theatrics for views... Watching this channel in the last years has been like watching trash tv.
Not everything is prusa manipulated Bruh
I'm sorry but you are wrong in this instance;
Marlin does not have input shaping. Marlin does have something that is supposed to work similarly but it doesn't.
Klipper is not at all related to the machines anyway, I'm running Klipper on all my printers and I have zero Prusa machines, or Vorons.
Other than that, spot on.
Klipper comes in useful once you have dozens of dissimilar 3d printers that all require their "own" firmware configuration.
Also, I'd like to ask, considering you have experience, what would you recommend over Voron? I built a large Voron and didn't feel it was THAT complicated, BUT I am in need of more of that caliber printers, so I'd gladly do a simpler kit?
Have you ever watched tested or even heard of Adam Savage because that's the whole reason for his apron trend
Adam Savage does work that could actually necessitate an apron. All NERO needed to do was sand the edge of his desk and his problem would have been solved. Aprons encumber movement in your legs and they pull on your shoulders/neck uncomfortably NERO wears an apron as a statement. It's a nonverbal cue which attempts to manipulate your esteem of him.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Can you elaborate on how his choice of clothing in his home is a statement? I don't think I can follow this logic. And I truly am curious as to the logic.
No. I don't believe your statement of earnestness. "Clothing makes the man" everyone knows that. You are playing dumb trying to trick me into saying something you can use against me.
Attacking Voron, Nero and Klipper is definitely not going to win you any friends lol. I'm embedded in the Klipper community and building a Voron as well as visiting the Voron discord regularly. If Prusa is building a CoreXY, why *wouldn't* they confer with the designers (who aren't under contract, nor take any paychecks) of the most popluar CoreXY systems in the world? It doesn't mean anything more than what It looks like at the surface. I think you're really going down the wrong hole here.
That's huge! Marlin has input shaping? Didn't know that. Thanks I like marlin I will check it out.
It does not. He is wrong.
The code is open source if someone wanted to implement it. But the issue I can see is that there may not be enough processing to do it. Maybe a fork that breaks marlin onto an external controller as well. But man that would be a lot of work.
@@Dustinspeed1 Marlin should release a version that runs on raspberry pi then, same as Klipper.
@@Dustinspeed1 Even RRF has no proper implementation. For the exact same reason processing power.
@@TheOfficialDarkICE Yeah I have not looked at it but from what I understand something with having to not allow split accelerations. But I am sure someone else can explain it better.
"You are on some other forum forming a mob to hate on me. This is like gang rape."
"I attacked his attire becuase it is a stupid statement."
"You are ruled by ugly emotions."
Wild watching you work.
I've met mr prusa as well, talked with him, can't stand him, am I part of the conspiracy as well?
I've never been inclined to Prusa. I dont have a Voron because I'm broke, but when I wasn't broke, the BOM work turned me off. They all have BOMs to work through though. But not once was I ever on the fence about Voron or Prusa. In my book, they aren't even in the same category. Its like saying if I don't get the Cadillac, I guess I'll just go with the AMC Pacer. Different animals and really, different taraget markets. Its a STRETCH to think complicating Voron's build process will push people to Prusa. It defies logic.
I don't know Josef Prusa and don't own one of his printers. I considered it because there are many real people who own those machines and think highly of them. The company seems to have a reputation for standing behind their product in a way that Creality and the like historically (at least) didn't. So people willingly paid money to mitigate their concerns over product quality because who wants a lemon for their first printer. Many of those buyers ultimately had very good experiences and didn't mind telling others. These people get called fanboys for the same reason vocal iPhone users do. They like the product and are willing to say so. When you make video after video telling all those fanboys that they were duped and therefore stupid, why would you be surprised that some in that community might be angry with you? Also, guess what? Companies have all kinds of reasons to have discussions and cooperate.... Sometimes to the advantage of the wider community they serve.
I'd ditch the Prusa vendetta as no one really cares tbh, most of your subs just want useful technical content and most probably do not or never will own a Prusa, I have been using a Sidewinder X1 for the last few years, a great little printer, the core xy stuff has me intrigued so currently building a RatRig V3 and I might build a Voron 2.4 after that. For people who like to self build the Voron and RatRig along with the Hevort are the go to designs at the moment and are all well documented open source projects. For those that want a solution that works out of the box depending on your budget buy an Ender 3, it just works and for the money you can't fault it, if you have a bit more cash to splash go buy the Bambu, all the early reports are very positive. I don't know why people would actually buy a Prusa, nothing against the guy at all but people clearly aren't educating themselves or researching properly, as I mentioned above there are better/cheaper solutions depending on your budget. For your own sake please take advice from your subs and stick with the technical content, educate people by showing just how good printers like Ender 3/Hevort/Ratrig/Voron can be, that would be far more useful and effective than trying to convince people Prusa is the devil incarnate, because most of us could not care less.
I sold my mk3 raplaced it with X1 combo. Stiil you are focused on prisa because he did not spoke with you back then. NOW Nero makes fun of you and hop Voron is part of Prusa conspiracy .... hello huston do you read
Prusa bought Printed Solid and they were already selling Voron stuff so Prusa sells Voron stuff now because of Purchase !! Thats it no conspiracy !
Design, Paranoia, Tantrum
This channel seems to have turned into print-anon, shame as it used to be one of my goto liked channels until it turned into this dystopian nightmare.
Im honestly more upset about him not liking my apron than anything else in the video
@@CanuckCreator I like your apron, I have one in my workshop, but mine is cooler, its denim....
@@CanuckCreator maybe its time to have a live stream titled apron-anon
@@CanuckCreator Me too.
I don’t think you understand well Klipper (not Voron). I literally have Klipper installed on 3 “ender 3 clones” with input shaping working. You don’t need to have a Voron printer to use Klipper or Input Shaping dude… sorry, but you need to research more about Klipper before saying such things :P
I'm not your "dude" and I don't need to do any research. What exactly is it that I said which you consider to be incorrect? Your comment is easily construed to be hostile. You appear to be looking for a fight so that you can defend Klipper. Is Klipper like a religion for you? Do you have a Klipper tattoo?
@@DesignPrototypeTest Ah, I see. You are not looking to learn or for constructive criticism. You just want to be rude and stupid. I am not looking for a fight, you are…
You can't claim umbridge when you came here. Insulting me first. You set up the acrimonious atmosphere. Now you want to accuse me of having a bad attitude because you can't actually point to anything that I said wrong. Your entire comment hinges on some made up notion that I don't understand Klipper is distinct from the Voron project. Cheaters always accuse you of what they are guilty of. So I will say it again: please explain precisely what I said that was wrong in this video about Klipper.
@@DesignPrototypeTest OK, so, I re-watched your video and here are the main mistakes (just about Klipper) listed by time:
5:48: Main selling point of Klipper is not Input Shaping. This is just one of many innovative features that Klipper has, and yes, other platforms also adopted (Marlin Input Shaping was based on the Klipper implementation, since both projects are 100% open source).
The main difference that Klipper offers is the fact that the main processing of the print is done in a separate CPU instead of the printers mainboard. This is normally using a Raspberry Pi but can be anything running Linux. This has multiple benefits but one of the most interesting ones (and the main reason Voron adopted Klipper) is the ability of having multiple printer boards (also known as multi-mcu) so you can build more complex printers because you are not limited by the main board maximum number of steeper drivers.
6:05: Where do you have the information that Klipper is only for Voron printers? It is the exact opposite. Klipper was created before Voron, it was NOT adopted by Voron on their first printers, and it was ALWAYS designed to be installed on ANY printer. Like I told you, I “klipperize” my Ender 3 and my Elegoo Neptune 3 (both cheap chinese printers) and doing so I have all the benefits (like Input Shaping) on those printers with just the “cost” of a Raspberry Pi (or any other SBC Linux computer). Voron and Klipper are two completely different and disconnected projects. It just happens that the latest Voron designs decided to use Klipper. They could have done with Marlin if they wanted to, so what?
6:22: Lockdown by patterns? What? Which patterns? All Klipper does is fully open source and anyone can use it. Marlin did their Input Shaping heavily based on Klipper’s code, and that is great! That is what open source is supposed to be.
So, do your research, read Klipper’s code (github.com/Klipper3d/klipper), read it’s main forum (klipper.discourse.group) and learn what it is and what it stands for before making up false facts.
About Voron and Prusa, I could care less. I don’t care about Voron and specially not Prusa (don’t like Prusa also), but Klipper is a very important project, and together with Marlin both projects are evolving 3D printing as a whole, so, they must be properly explained on educational platforms like your RUclips.
I have liked your previous content and I am a fan of many different 3D printing channels because I enjoy learning about all kinds of new printers. I don't particularly like the "obsession" with Prusa - I just think that seems to be replacing the kind of better content you have historically focused on. For full disclosure, I do have a MK3 (later upgraded to MK3S) that I have reliably and happily used for 3+ years with only a thermistor needing to be replaced (and that was about 3 months ago). 3 years ago the value seemed a bit higher, especially since I was new to 3D printing and back then the Chinese clones weren't (on average) as good as they are now. In 2022, yes, the Prusa may appear overpriced for a bed slinger with an 8 bit MCU, moderate but not overly large build volume, no built-in wifi, and a small monochrome screen. So I get that. But "overpriced" is in the eye of the consumer. Some people are willing to pay a premium for something where they get great support for a pretty polished user experience. If people don't want a Prusa - don't buy a Prusa. I just got a Bambu Lab XC1 and I am enjoying it so far. I am considering building a Voron 2.4 and have also considered adding an IDEX printer like the Sovol SV04. I am not wed to only Prusa, but will likely continue to keep and use my MK3S as long as it keeps running. I say, just buy what you want and like and what fits your budget and technical expertise (where kits or BOM parts are concerned). Do we really need to divide the 3D printing community into iPhone versus Android style fanboy debates? Can't we say what we like and why and yet respect other people's opinions for what they like, even if it is different than our choices? I hope so.
Great comment. I agree. Aggressive Prusa marketing speech aside: If Prusa would not be able to deliver to their promises mainly, the many hundreds of thousands of buyers would have regretted their decision to purchase a Prusa machine and most would likely stopped using it. Being part of a bigger 3D printing community myself I never experienced this is actually going to happen. Sure, not all are happy, there are complaints and issues, and people who do not want a Prusa. That's totally normal. Taste is different.
But DPT treats all the Prusa buyers and users like being dumb fools who got all tricked by genius Josef. Nonsense!
I think, the vast majority of people who purchased a Prusa (despite saying its overly priced or outdated technology lalala...) have made a reasonable and informed decision on their own. Only because there are more modern 3D printers becoming available nowadays, there is no need to say anything bad or negative about users still using their old and outdated machines if they still run well and do the job as expected. No one changes her car every few months just because someone else came out with a better feature or a newer car. Stupid logic! Like Cameron said: if you want a Prusa: buy one! If you don't like Prusa: skip it. Period. Show more tolerance towards other options and decisions, don't make this a religious discord.
Be assured, I am not a fan-boy. As an engineer myself, I just love and enjoy my 3D printing hobby and the variety of options, machines and communities available to make this hobby real fun. I have many Chinese printers in active use (2 x Anycubic I3 Mega, 1 x Sapphire Pro, 1 x Artillery Sidewinder X1, 1 x Artillery Genius, 2 x FLSun Q5), I built two larger Hypercube Evolution myself and also purchased a Prusa MK3S+ Kit and a Prusa Mini+ pre-built. The latter two machines being absolutely reliable machines - even being considered "outdated" in 2020 - still producing great print results. I use them for rapid prototyping. Both Prusa machines are in the original state, only a nozzle and a teflon tube had be exchanged so far. All my Chinese printers,I also like very much, but literally ALL, had to be modified, upgraded and tuned to make them work reliable and silent (how many noise cheep ass Chinese fans have I replaced? 20? ...). If asked which printer I can recommend to beginners: my fist answer is always: well, ideally you start with an "old & original" Ender 3 to ge a feeling for the hobby ... however: I also love my Prusa printers, sorry.
HI
I will start at why I never post on your videos (you did ask about it 2~3 videos ago ), so most time, I just play my watch list in the background during work so I don't put notes/likes (some time I remember to go back to put like but its let's say 1 out of 30~40)
now back to your last video (disclaimer I build v0,v2.4, and Prusa clone MK3S+ and more not related printers I get about ten printers running at any time ), so I will give you feedback based on your points
1) Voron VS Prusa ... so it's not just Prusa, but a lot of companies send/talk to the Voron team nowadays (e3d, ender,Bambu team,BTT, and more) to look "cool" (like "E3D RapidChange Revo Voron" it's just Revo in red color)
2) voron is more like today's lego. Its a fun build (for me) i don't do "speed benchy" and so on its just a good relatable printer (after you put the 40h of a build as you say, I did put about 60~70h, FYI)
3) nero apron issues, so he did talk about it in the past. He gets it to copy Adam Savage, and now it's his trademark?
4) Nero subscribe is fast because he left his day job, and now he does youtube full time and about 2~4 live every week and youtube love it and he is the "most know voron build howto" nowadays ("Steve Builds" is the 2th) so if you stuck in build Nero will be the first video you are going to find to help you
5) last point is Chris warkocki i just looked i did watch 3 of his videos in the past (review ones) i do remember the face; that is all the feedback I can give about him)
ok, now I'm going to leave feedback on the rest of your videos
In my opinion, Prusa does well because, like me, there are thousands (millions?) of people who “just want to print”. They don’t want to be bothered with learning what makes it work. Vorons are for mechanical types who want speed and the satisfaction of DYI builds. Sure, Prusa has DYI builds but they provide hand held support from start to finish. I only got into 3D printing because my main hobby, FPV drones, can use lots of TPU parts. My first printer was an Artillery SWX1, 95% prebuilt. My second was the Prusa MK3S+, 100% factory built and because of my laziness, would 100% recommend to anyone not wanting to learn and just wants to print. I think Nero’s apron is more of a Shtick than it is about getting dirty and your presentation of it was funny. What I find interesting is, how will Prusa compete with Bambu Labs Carbon X1 or if they even can? If I want to spend $1500 for my next printer, it would be for the Carbon X1 over the Prusa XL.
I love my Bambu X1
Nero: "We have met Josef Prusa"
You: "PROOF THAT VORON HAS WORKED WITH PRUSA ALL ALONG"
Excuse me, but please go grab a dictionary and look up the definition of "meet". And while you're at it, also look up "straw man", thanks.
I have no horse in this race at all but this stuff leaked into my feed so I came to take a look as I used to watch your videos and hadn't seen one for some time. All I'll note is that "have met" is not necessarily the same as "have had meetings with" at all, and when I read that post about having met Prusa and members of his team, I do not get any impression that it relates to business meetings. Unless you've got knowledge that business meetings took place, you appear to be deliberately taking the most extreme possible interpretation of those words.
🤷♂
You do realize his apron is part of his brand right? It's just an apron.
I met Chuck Yeager once. Nice guy.
Doesn't make me a pilot though.
Nero said he met Prusa. Ok. Great. Saying that proves a conspiracy is a logical fallacy.
I built a Voron and it didn't take all that much time. About 10ish, but I didn't do it all at once. I am not sure where you can say it takes days of work. It really doesn't.
Input shaper isn't Voron exclusive. It's Klipper. Klipper can be used on pretty much any FDM printer, and ergo so can input shaper. In my humble, but highly accurate, opinion, if a machine is built well and doesn't have a bunch of loose stuff flopping around, input shaper is of minimal use. Yeah, it makes things look nicer at higher acceleration, but it wasn't a "God appears and gives me the quest to find the holy grail" moment. So, I am not sure where you get the idea that's Voron exclusive.
The Voron is complicated. But, as I built it, it was as simple in each aspect as it could be. In essence, a 1927 Model A is a car. So is a 2022 Charger. Yes, a car can be simple, like the Model A. But, it will never do what a new car will. Imagine trying to put air bags, antilock brakes, and all the safety equipment we now take for granted on a Model A. Even if you kept each system as simple as possible, that Model A would be just as complex as a new rolling canbus computer network...sorry...car.
I miss your old videos where you showed us where you made things better or explained something useful. All the recent negative videos where you attack the Voron, Prusa, the BTT filament sensor, et al. are really getting old. Please go back to being interesting. Please?
So that meeting with the pioneer of supersonic flight had no influence on you. Nothing that he said guided you in any direction whatsoever? You are still talking about it years later. Seems to me like a single meeting can be pretty impactful. Just because you aren't a pilot doesn't mean it didn't guide your decisions.
Did someone order the bat guano? 🦇💩🤯
Let's see how long it takes for this comment to be deleted or me to be banned from the channel. 🥥🥜🌰
Question regarding the presentation of Prusa sales...
Yes, if true the company "rakes inn" 750USD per kit sold.
But that's not a definition of cash to the owner(s).
The overhead cost of materials/parts, labour, manufacturing, shipping, buildings and logistics. Cannot be ignored and presented as not existing.
It would surprise me if Prusa made any more than 5 to 15% pure profit per kit sold. Which is a reasonable number to put out for any company which has the economic balance to stay in business.
To rephrase, if Prusa as a company made even close to 30% of the "kit price" as pure profit on their products sold. Prusa would be one of the best companies in the world to invest in.
I don't get the whole apron thing, he clearly has pens and tools in it. Just seems like a pointless thing to bring up
I mean, ive mentioned it on stream SEVERAL times why i wear the apron, it isnt exactly a secret lol
@@CanuckCreator That can't be it, there must be some deeper meaning. I think "a-pron" is code for "a prusa", and in fact you're thusly subliminally influencing your viewers to ignore your actual recommendations and comments but instead buy "a prusa" printer. That's obviously the real explanation!
After all, no way members of one 3D printing community would talk with members from another 3D printing community unless they're involved in a dark conspiracy, mostly aimed at destroying a 3rd party who isn't a competitor or anything.
@@marcus3d OR, and let me just put some thoughts down.
My workbench had a plywood top, and i lean against it, which was actually damaging my shirts over time
I dont want accidental grease/oil/other dirty stuff (i use my bench for other projects) on my clothes
I wanted some sort of consistent apparel item across the streams and videos as some sort of "branding"
I work/worked in a toolshop and was used to having things like pens/markers/small scale on me while working, apron solves that at home
I watched a YT vid from the channel TESTED with Adam Savage about the exact same apron I wear and thought "ya know what, this solves the above issues"
and again, all this has been said on stream in the past for reference lol
@@CanuckCreator Now I'm not sure if you realized that I was joking, or if I'm just too dumb to read your message correctly. 😅
So, just to be clear, obviously "apron" isn't code for "a prusa". And of course people in the same field are often talking with each other. It would be insane conspiracy nutcase reasoning to think otherwise.
Also, I'm a fan of your shows, although I'm a little disappointed that you didn't show how you decided to use the magnets in that battery clip thingy yesterday and how well that solution worked out for you. (Or maybe I just missed that part somehow.)
I'm looking at your video and all I see is Melamine counter tops. The Shelf in the background has a particle board core and a Faux Melamine top. I don't see any Plywood. Maybe I missed it. Maybe you aren't lying. I don't know how clumsy you are, but I RARELY rub my belly against the table while working on 3D printers and I think I have a fatter belly than you do. Not only that, but anyone who's ever worn an apron knows how restrictive they are to you leg movement. I only put mine on when I'm doing filthy work like solvents on grease that splatter or when I'm grinding metal. We both know the real reason you wear it. The reason why you put up with the restricted movement and pull on your neck/shoulders from the strap for hours and hours of your live streams. It makes you look more accomplished. It is a signifier of authority. It gives off an air of professionalism. It's like a uniform. It is a statement to your audience that you have the uniform and your judgement is to be deferred to. In otherwords. It's just you fronting. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fronting
Met Joseph and the team....they go to the same conferences and events you joke.
What if Voron just wanted to know where Prusa was getting their haribo candies?
If anyone makes anything inventive and is not protected by patents, is it fair to him? Why would anyone give away his invention for free? One situation for this is when the inventor is unaware that his great product or idea becomes free for all to use and make when he disclosed his product without any protection. So, while Patent is not perfect a system, what is your Solution for alternative to Patent system? If You have a great invention, tell me, will you not want to be protected? Any opinions?
You don't have to disclose anything. But if we're going to first principles, why should I have the power to prevent you from doing whatever you want with your tools and your material in a way that doesn't affect me directly? Because that's what parents are. They are used to restrict people from using their own property.
@@marcus3d No one can prevent me from using my invention but disclosing it without protection makes my great idea free for all to benefit. If that's your intention, it's OK. But how many would not want to get financial reward for a great invention using patents? Patent system does not stop one from disclosing .
@@RefreshingJohn Wrong. If someone patented (a part of) your invention then they can have the government force you to stop distributing or even using it. It doesn't matter that you never heard of the patent in question, it can still be used to prevent you from doing what you want with your property even if that's something you came up with yourself.
Also, sure, it would be lovely to get paid for what you like to do, but that doesn't mean you are entitled to. Especially if that restricts what other people are doing with their own tools in their own time. I'd like to get money for whenever I correct someone stupid on the internet. After all, they're benefiting from it, and might very well use whatever I tell them. But again, just because someone else benefits from something I did doesn't entitle me to have the government force them to give me their money.
Ok, so people at Prusa met with those at Voron and this means Prusa is controlling Voron development. I don't know what I wonder most about - if you have followed Voron development at all or what you're smoking. It must be rather good stuff. Please tell!
Voron = Linux
Prusa = Windows
Ultimaker = MacOS
Creality = Android
FormLabs = IOS
Creality = Symbian
Haha love this analogy.
Disagree
Creality= windows, they keep pumping out cheap crap that is the same
Prusa= Apple, crazy margins even though their products aren't worth it
Ultimaker= IBM or maybe Oracle.
I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a Voron build. I'm currently running a tevo tornado that is heavily modified. I've never wanted a prusa. It's reminds me of Apple. I wouldn't put it past being a thing, but how does one make the jump from a voron to a prusa. They attract two different personality types.
Come to the darkside (Voron) we have cookies! be sure to join the discord server, thats where te voron community really shines.
Thanks, I'll have to check it out.
He's getting his tentacles in voron to take the designs later and sell them
$5m a month is nothing if your costs are $6m.
I love my two vorons.
;)
This is just kind of sad, man…
You don’t sell stuff? Don’t you sell a backpack/bag with some kind of new revolutionary buckle system? If did Prusa steal that idea from you too?
My understanding is you passed an apology through Nero to me?
Regrettably, I cannot accept an apology second hand. I'm easy to find on discord, or you could chose to apologize here, just click "REPLY".
If you truly wish to apologize, I would suggest directly asking us your questions, and posting a video that clears up the misconceptions in your previous video.
For example to the question "Why did we design the switchwire?" thats pretty easily answered just looking at the launch video. RCF designed in in a few short months, by himself, as a surprise to the community. There was no outside influence.
"Why did we design the ERCF?" You answered the question yourself: the MMU2 doesn't work very well. Is it so suspicious that some of us decided to make a better one?
In both cases, I'm really confused by your premise. How does it benefit Prusa that we made a better bed slinger or a better MMU2? Our designs are cc 3.0 licensed, anyone can use them even for commercial printers. And Prusa isn't using them himself (though he's welcome to them) So how does this benefit him?
To be clear: even if it did benefit him in some indirect way, that's not evidence supporting your hypothesis we are controlled by Prusa. For that you would need something more direct. Here are some examples:
1)direct evidence our designs and Prusa share the same design language, indicating they are designed by the same people
2)timing evidence that lines Voron releases up with Prusa's
3)message evidence (we are most visible on discord, it has a search function)
4)Evidence of financial backing
I'm confident you won't find any...because I know such does not exist.
@Badnoob I absolutely did not pass on an apology through NERO. Whereas I have gone out of my way to say nice things about NERO he laughs at me behind my back while trying to suck up to Prusa. He didn't tag me and neither did Josef because they don't want me to see/hear what they are doing. This shows that they are fully cognizant that what they are doing it shameful. Birds of a feather flock together and feel empowered in their numbers. Despite having found each other, these are weak character men.
You do a good job of walking the line of ambiguity both in this comment and in your previous one. Given the vast number of negative and hateful comments directed towards me you can understand why I would assume you are not my friend and base an entire video around your words. Especially because there is nothing in the comment which can be seen as friendly toward me. If you want to be my friend, I await an unambiguous signal and we can have a jovial repartee. Until then I will continue to treat you as vaguely hostile.
James Mackay is the one who did give me unambiguous signals of good will. He assured me that you are a good person and on his word I reinterpreted your comment and asked him to relay an apology to you. Reading this comment here from you, I don't think I owe you an apology. I will not be going on discord as you suggested.
Your arguments here do nothing do dissuade me of my suspicions. At best there is a significant mingling of interests between Prusa and the Voron Project. Worse, some of the engineers from Prusa are making projects and labeling them as "Voron" or worst of all Josef Prusa himself is directing and shaping the projects that the Voron "community" chooses to make. NERO tells us that Josef has meetings with Voron Project members. I don't know who "RCF" is. To you those initials probably mean something. To me it's just some guy you mentioned. I thought Maksim Zolin designed all the Voron Printers. It's not like there is an "About the Voron Team" tab on the website. The power players in your "community" are pretty anonymous. How do you know that RCF didn't get paid by Prusa to make the Switchwire? Also, who made the ERCF? Why would anyone clone a piece of poop? It's the successful things that get cloned, not the failures. If you spent any time looking into the MMU2 (like if you were cloning it and wanted to understand it well enough to try and improve upon it) you would know that it doesn't work because the idea is fundamentally flawed. You can't do better than Prusa. The technique itself is the wrong strategy. I suppose there is an explanation that supports your viewpoint. The person who made the ERCF has a chip on their shoulder combined with an outsized ego. They thought they could out-do Prusa. I've seen this type of behavior in my comments. Guys who show up and want to swing their D around proving they are more talented or knowledgeable than I am. They want to compete with me. Is this typical of the membership in the Voron "community?" Is this what motivates you yourself? If so, maybe it explains the toxic vibe.
@@DesignPrototypeTest you are upset that nero didn't tag you on his tweet... does that mean I should be upset you didn't notify me about your video?
Its clear you know very little about voron, how we operate, and why we do what we do. I've offered to help you understand all of that.
I don't know why but it seems like you are taking that as hostility. there's no subtext here, no sides, no ambiguity. if you have a question, just ask it on discord.
Why would I have any questions for you? As I said, previously I didn't plan on building a Voron and given my experience with two of the most prominent Voron community members I can almost guarantee I won't spending so many of my precious hours to do so now.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Alright.
I'm not sure why you seem so hostile towards me here...You requested information on how the Voron team decides to work on things, I provided it without hostility or subtext. Isn't that what you were asking for?
Well, if you do have any questions, you know where to find the answers. Have a great day then.
"Guys who show up and want to swing their D around proving they are more talented or knowledgeable than I am. They want to compete with me. Is this typical of the membership in the Voron "community?" Is this what motivates you yourself? If so, maybe it explains the toxic vibe."
Is that how you see the world? That anyone trying to make a better printer is somehow "swing(ing) their D around" or "want(ing) to compete with (you)?" I hope not.
Speaking for myself, I'm not competing with you in any way, nor do I care to.
You've asked what motivates me and what motivates the Voron team. It's simple:
We just want to make printers better, and help people build better printers.
We do it because helping people out feels pretty good. I'm sure you agree on that: isn't that why you started making videos?
Isn't it nice when someone sends you a note telling you your video helped them?
Thats why we do it.
It's no wonder why we're not seeing quality content from you when you're hung up with the sheer amount of real estate in your mind that is occupied by other people and their business. Design-Prototype-Test should start another channel called Fuss-Moan-Complain, and put serious effort into separating content between the two.
Think of a Prusa like an iPhone - no one is buying for the latest features, because Android is dominating the market in fresh tech before Apple is. What they are buying is into the ecosystem. Prusa has a very basic product, but is able to provide support unlike most Asian countries, and people are willing to pay a premium for support because at the end of the day not everyone is into electronics and no one wants a huge paperweight sitting on their desk. Note: I am not a fanboy and do not own a Prusa.
I enjoyed a lot of your previous content, as much as the other content creators I have followed over the past 5 years here on RUclips. However, none of them are going through this much effort to complain about a man and his company. Several of your recent videos have stood out as whiny for this sort of dribble.
And Nero said they have met Joseph Prusa, most likely referring to at a trade show, convention, etc. At no point in your entire rant did you provide any shred of evidence that there are any sort of "secret" or "public" meetings between the two businesses. You are digging, and digging deep, to associate some nonsensical theory that does nothing at the end of the day.
Further, and just to point out because I did not see it mentioned in any of the comments, that machinists wear aprons. Check of some of Adam Savage videos here on YT where he often wears one when machining parts. When you're assembling a 3d printer, if you're doing it correctly, you're lubricating the rails and guides, which Nero does in all his builds I have briefly watched. Parts also come from the factories covered in a grease, which gets all over everything. No one wants glue, silicone, grease, or oil on their clothes...so there's that.
You'll notice I do not comment on videos frequently, and out of all your videos I have only ever commented (in support) of one of your other videos. I simply do not have the time to provide input as I work and have a family. I hit my like button and move on. But the fact that I have taken the amount of time I have now to type all this out, should be evidence enough that I don't want to see you fall further down your rabbit hole. I sincerely hope you don't take any of this the wrong way, and I encourage a more positive approach to future video content and leave all this dribble in the past. Go back to Design-Prototype-Testing things, and start a different channel for rants no one wants to see.
I wonder how Prusa fills about Bambu lab then because it basically a voron
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! And a Geo Metro is basically a Ferrari.
I can definitely see some design elements that were Voron DNA to them. And that is what Voron as a reprap project is for. If it works use it to make it better and to pass it forward to the next generation.
@@DesignPrototypeTest you do know Bambu said they took inspiration from Voron right?
How can you have so little knowledge about 3d printing and talk so much garbage?
@@DesignPrototypeTest i do believe what u are saying is true about Prusa an all, but I mean the Bambu lab x1 carbon is basically a commercial voron just not as good as one
Are you still deleting comments and banning accounts, DPT?
so ad hominem is ok if its ad apron-em?
@Caittastic Here is a sample of the comments I have received in just this video:
"You're a sad sad little man. Get therapy.":
"What drugs are you on?"
"You should really question what this mad man says"
"Nurse! He's out of bed again."
"Man, you need to take your Valium! :))"
"your mental health getting progressively worse bruh"
These qualify as Ad Hominem because all of them attempt to diminish my worth as a person or presenter instead of addressing the validity of my statements.
The assertions I made in the video can be summarized: Conspiracies actually exist. Nobody really likes Prusa, but we are made to think that some people do, He and his company are very large and as such they must manipulate things from the shadows in order to keep growing. One such manipulation was to grow Voron and use it for Decoy Pricing.
To fight against me and not engage in Ad Hominem you must dispute or disprove the assertions I made in the video. Attacking my person instead of addressing the points I made is Ad Hominem.
I addressed anything of value which NERO said. I called him out for his bad behavior laughing at me for having a conspiracy theory before admitting that he is part of the conspiracy. Wearing an Apron is a statement. Just like wearing a MAGA hat is a statement. By showing how stupid it is to wear an Apron when 3D printing I am attacking the statement not the man. "Hominem" means man in Latin. I attacked his attire because it is a stupid statement.
You are guilty of playing politics and ignoring truth. You just want your team to win. You try to use my own words against me because I'm winning. I'm winning because I serve the truth and the greater good. STOP PLAYING TEAM POLITICS. I don't care if you like me or not. Just acknowledge the truth and see the other players for their flaws. All you do is attack me instead of asking if Prusa is a good thing for the hobby of 3D printing and if NERO isn't just a lackey for Prusa. You don't care how wrong your team is as long as you win. You are ruled by ugly emotions. What's worse is the fact that I got two of this same comment within a minute of each other. You are on some other forum forming a mob to hate on me. This is like gang rape. I'm just one guy here. Does this behavior make you feel powerful?
Oh boy…
I own a Prusa Mini+ because I like 3D printing not 3D printers. It's a fine machine for the price. I'm not really sure what all this conspiracy stuff is about or why I should care. Even if they are secretely the same company why should I care? Just buy what you want.
It"s a conspiracy! It's a plot! Its a scheme!........Hyperventilate.......Anyone who doesn't agree with me is in on it! Anyone who makes fun of me is in on it! You are all in on it! DAMN YOU PRUSAAAAAAA!
AAAAAAaaa mediatiooon :))
I allways thought Mr Prusa is Elvis....
Ok, so let me get this right, just having a civilized chat and mutual respect for each other means you are jumping into bed and getting it on now? That is your proof. I think even Alex Jones will be ashamed of how these dots are linked.
Why doesn't the Ratrig have a vocal and toxic group of fanboys? Why isn't Ratrig meeting with Prusa and bragging about it while sucking up to Prusa on Twitter? Who are the team members designing Voron printers? Why did they decide to make the Switchwire and the Enraged Rabbit Carrot Feeder? Everyone knows that bed slingers are inferior to CoreXY, and everyone knows just how dysfunctional the MMU2 is. Why would the Voron team waste their time copying faulty flawed and otherwise bad designs when they already had a killer portfolio of CoreXY designs? The obvious answer is because they are being manipulated by Prusa to make Prusa's products look better in comparison.
Maybe you should do more research? Maybe watch the interview with the guy that started Voron, watch the people that are part of the Voron team? Steve, Eddie the engineer etc? The enraged rabbit feeder was not a Voron specific thing I believe but more klipper specific. I believe the guy that designed it was invited to be part of the Voron team, so to the person that designed and made the hartk pcb boards. In general I like your videos but for this one, I think the lack of research and what Voron is all about really shows. Maybe build one yourself and join the community to get some insight? As far as Ratrig goes, not really a true open source printer, some parts I think are proprietary and the cost more than a Voron in general. Sometimes things are popular because they are good.
@@DesignPrototypeTest the obvious answer is you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you're making shit up. Ratrig has no more or less toxic community than Voron. Who's on the team, that's publicly posted knowledge, you did zero research. The switch wire was a COVID project by one of the team members to explore coreXZ, ERCF was not even a Voron project lol! You've got nothing but incorrect information and baseless attacks, all because your feelings got hurt on Twitter.
These are good points, but they are about as flimsy as my arguments. NERO is the face of Voron. He's shown a history of sucking up to Prusa. Why? What does Prusa do for NERO to buy this kind of servile behavior? I can easily believe that not all of the Voron "team" are tied up with Prusa. This video was an accusation to justify the implied question. Now I'm hoping that some light will be shown on the relationship between Voron and Prusa. There clearly is a relationship but the extents of it are just speculative by your and me. We need those involved to clarify. Something that will never be clarified is the "Why doesn't the Ratrig have a vocal and toxic group of fanboys?" question. You think the answer is "Sometimes things are popular because they are good." but I say the Ratrig is as good as the Voron. and the reason for the fanboy behavior is because it is spillover from the toxic Prusa fanboys (sock puppets?).
@@DesignPrototypeTest The only collusion between Prusa and Voron may be when to head somewhere for happy hour. And you can take that to the bank.
If you think a Voron is complicated to assemble, don’t build a RatRig then, from your way of thinking RatRig must also be controlled right? 😂
I’ve been a member and supporter of your channel for years but I’ve had enough. You clearly have gone over the deep end. And I’m going to do the only thing I can do and walk away with my subscription. I hate that I even gave you a watch for this insane video. I hope others will do the same. You just need to go away you really have lost it dude.
Your aren't a member of my channel you lying manipulator. I don't have a single channel membership. Did you support me on Patreon to make this claim? You are just trying to make people think I'm unlikable and to follow your lead. Don't you get it? Everyone who actually supports me at this point is rock solid in their reasoning and this type of attack doesn't work to make them feel insecure about me. Your last video was from 5 years ago. I think this is a hacked account. SOCK PUPPET! How about you say these words to my face showing showing me YOUR face and letting me hear your voice.
@@DesignPrototypeTest bruh... member of your community... you are really money driven if he only counts when he pays u on pateron or in any otherway
@@DesignPrototypeTest and again wanting to dox people. Your understanding of a community sounds more like a cult.
you tube channels with amazon links is rampant, salesmen comes in all shapes and forms
Sad to admit, but your are tilting at windmills. Prusa did a successful startup that grove up into big company, and employing bunch of people in his home country. These 10m that he makes also go to salaries, research, materials, and probably taxes - this means that net income may be way lower. Voron - they are amazing community that design amazing printers. It was started by one man and obviously / naturally he has weight in this community. The fact that they communicate with Prusa (does not mean that they work with them nor for them) means that this is healthy competition and nothing else. As for Klipper - not sure how your missed that it is open source - you can use it on pretty much any 3d printer. I tried it few months back on my custom CoreXY and it is amazing thankfully to great support from Voron team..
arguments that don't make sense:
1. "all movements have a leadership" (meaning: grassroots movements do not exist. clearly false. see: gnu/linux)
2. "vorons aren't the only ones with input shaping" (meaning: FOSS groups shouldn't have arguments/preferences about open source tools. clearly false. see: any argument about linux distro choice, DE choice, WM choice, text editor choice, IDE choice, etc)
3. "voron having meetings with prusa means that voron is manipulated by prusa" (meaning: interaction implies association/control. clearly false. see: valve's interactions with oculus in the early days? )
4. "vorons are purposely obtuse, hard to source, expensive" lol ignoring literally all the kits that exist.
5. decoy pricing... you have to be making the conscious decision to ignore the bambu labs x1, right? core xy, mmu, prebuilt, input shaper... it was all the rage a few months ago, and nero3d as well as all the voron fanboys love it. it's even cheaper than a voron.
6. attacking nero for... his clothing choices? character assassination.
last thing, you saying that everyone is attacking you sounds like you're saying "oh no, the consequences of my actions!" you make an outrageous claim like saying that voron is an inside job by prusa to limit competition, and you immediately make both voron fans and prusa fans mad.
1) WHAT???!? So, there is this guy named Richard Richard Stallman, also another guy named Linus Torvalds. These are the leaders of the GNU and Linux respectively. There are a number of other key players. If you went back in time and removed these people, FOSS would not exist today. Leadership. What do you think the word means?
You live in some sort of fantasy fiction in your mind where you think there are no difference between people and if one person did not do it, another person would. There are no leaders in your illusion. GNU and Linux your two examples ABSOLUTELY have leadership. The unequivocal falseness of your first assertion is so ludicrous! I won't poison my mind by reading any farther and allowing your faulty bran patterns to infect mine.
@@DesignPrototypeTest
the reason you stated "all movements have a leadership" was to imply that movements do not grow separate from their leaders. you scoffed that a vibrant community could form on its own around an open source project. however, gnu/linux is a perfect example of a community that grew separate from their leaders influence (and some say, despite it). my criticism stands.
also, I watched your entire argument when I engaged with it. how about you do the same?
This is a bit of a stretch and also includes misguided information. I can't speak to Joe Prusa's personality, but in the maker space people talk and collaborate all the time. That does not mean one controls the other.
Voron does not claim to be the only way to get input shaping (which does not exist in MARLIN). Klipper does. I can say I have seen a small amount of toxic people in the Klipper community, but NOT the Voron commuy.
You need to learn the different areas you are talking about. Pressure and linear advance are not input shaping. Voron doesn't claim to be the "only one".