"You should be one of those three things..." re- military, LEO, or competition. Sorry, but no. The entire mindset of each of those three things is completely different than a civilian defending themselves. Military and LEO each have completely different legal obligations and job responsibilities, and competition is about time pressure and scores. Can competition make you a better shooter? Sure. Does it inherently make you a good instructor? Nope. Neither do the other two.
And when it comes to Lucas he’s not even a good competition shooter. Google Duskin 3gun 2018. Lucas took 200th place lol When it comes to how he markets himself, it’s usually “tactical” looking drills. He won’t say outright he’s a “tactical instructor”, but it sure does look like that’s how he’s trying to be perceived. I’d say Lucas markets himself more as a tactical instructor than he does a competition instructor. Neither of which he’s any good at.
Everything you said is true, BUT. You're leaving out a crucial element, civilians defending themselves so have very different legal responsibilities and limitations and it's essential to understand what they are. However, just because you're in a position to defend yourself, doesn't necessarily qualify you to be an instructor. The very best instructors ARE still ex-military and LEO personnel, because it is what they do. They do it professionally. They undoubtedly have the most real world experience. If you want to shoot competitively, learn from an Olympic Gold Medalist. If you want to learn defensive shooting, then learn it from a veteran. And no one's saying that you have to pick either or. No one is saying you can't do both, just know the difference between the two.
Did Michael Douglas Thervil aka Luican Black ever threaten to sue you too? That guy is a soup sandwich and chock full a nuts . Voda makes everyone on Caleb's list look safe, sane and honest.
Voda is honestly not worth the time. He's so bad that it's self-evident. He's basically a walking meme. These other guys are good enough to dupe good people who aren't quite in the know. Voda only swindles people who don't know what end of the gun the bullets come out of. That doesn't make him better, just much less of a threat.
VODA has gone on record admitting that he has NO professional training.... not a single class. He claims that they "have nothing to teach him". The arrogance..... Ironically, he's a Sonny Puzikas fan and Sonny laughs at him! Why should anyone invest in an instructor who doesn't invest in himself???
Did you not notice how he also stated "competition" in his criteria of what makes a good instructor? You just really should have first hand experience of some sort, whether in a martial context or a sporting context to be able to back up your knowledge. Why would you train witj someone who doesn't have any of that experience when there's hundreds of instructors who actually have legitimate experience to back up what they're saying?
@@Flemdragon Competence in your field - paired with the ability to clearly and concisely pass that knowledge along - qualifies you to teach your skillset.
Why does someone “have” to have a background in Military, Law enforcement or competition shooting in order to be an instructor? It shouldn’t matter what a persons background is as long as what they teach is good. I know plenty of Leo’s and Military guys who don’t know enough about firearms to be a firearms instructor.
Gun Nuts Media I know that. I never implied that you were saying that. Im saying that being former military or a Leo shouldn’t be a must for an instructor. Knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge to others is what an instructor needs. Does someone have to be a former Sniper to teach long range shooting?
No they don’t need to have been a sniper, but they better have shot some Palma or PRS matches. The reason I put that caveat in the video is that there are way too many people with zero qualifications who are “instructors.”
@@MrRevolver how do you justify this with the multitude of self taught hunters who can reach out and touch their targets without a law enforcement, military, or competition background?
regarding Front Sight, they've since come under new ownership and Ignatius Piazza is not involved anymore. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Sight_Firearms_Training_Institute
Military or police, you don’t know what your talking about. I’ve spent my life around and working with these people. They are not well trained with firearms. Those jobs do not indicate expertise. Good teachers are rare, teachers who are warriors more so.
I can literally name ten people off the top of my head who are decorated combat veterans and excellent instructors, and who also aren’t assholes. Stay in your lane since you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I would agree that just because your military, law enforcement, or competition shooter should be the standard for which you judge people on their ability or qualification to be a firearm instructor. There are individuals civilians, military, law enforcement, and probably even competition shooters that just suck at firearms safety, running the gun, and even how they think. There needs to be a good set standard that instructors should judged by. I have luckily had some mentors in my life that where very good at running firearms, some of them where very good at communicating and transferring their skills to others and others that were very bad at teaching others. I will say that I can run a ar15 style rifle fairly well from my training, but during my time I only trained with a side arm twice. But I'm sure that you could find someone from a different unit that trained with a side arm a lot. Looking into that guy that shot a fellow instructor I found that there have been several accounts of law enforcement trainers both civilians and law enforcement who have shot themselves or others during training. Now I'm not saying that these backgrounds are not good indicators of a good instructor or even help give credibility, but I dont think that it should be the standard.
@@MrRevolver I can give a list of SEALs that I'd still trust my life with, but I wouldn't trust them for shit to give a civilian firearms training! And, they would AGREE WITH ME!!! 😂 30 seconds of full training: "Mag in the gun. Rack the gun. Point the gun at the douchebag! Shoot him in the nuts. Now, shoot him in the face! Shooting his boyfriend in the nuts. Let him bleed out! Good class everybody!!!"
@@MrRevolver nypd has a 30% hit rate when they aren't taking fire. I'd hope your average civilian that carries is better than your average LEO, we're actually responsible for our bullet placement.
IMO, being military or police does not matter as an instructor. I say this as a former Army instructor and drill sergeant. Little I did there helped me become an instructor other than being in front of people. Going to rangemaster and John Farnam classes has taught me more in teaching civilians self defense than uncle Sam ever did.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary I left out the third option for two reasons. First, a record of shooting competitive courses well gives no indication of an ability to instruct. Second, it supports the idea that civilians can train military and law enforcement, which invalidates the other two requisites. Military and LE experience also have no inherent causual relationship with being able to either shoot or instruct. Anyone can do it. I would like to see anyone in this comment section demonstrate that they can outshoot Lucas by a significant margin, then also give examples demonstrating inferiority in his instruction. I think T-RA's clientele speaks the loudest to what level of shooter and instructor he is.
@@Konvinced89 Military and Law Enforcement provides opportunities most dont experience or have an opportunity to experience. Blanket LE or Mil alone isnt enough though.
You’re right, just being a cop or a mil dude or an accomplished competition shooter isn’t enough. And in fact, there are great instructors out there who are none of those things, but they’re the exception, rather than the rule. I use mil/LE/competition experience as a starting point for when I vet an instructor. As in “does he have one of these three things” and then if they do, I can proceed further into the vetting process. I’ve gone to instructors who had none of those things as well, and some were great and others were awful.
@@MrRevolver Understood. I'm saying it depends on what your requirements are. Could you link to confirmed data that Lucas speeds up video? I've seen tons of accusations but nothing substantive yet.
I guess this guy doesn't realize Lucas from Trex trains special mission units for the DOD . Just because you've never seen combat , or kicked in a door doesn't mean your not a good teacher . I'm pretty sure Lucas is a Grand Master Comp shooter . I know he shoots in a shit ton of comps .
@@seanwhite304 he's not a grandmaster. He hasn't even placed in the middle of the pack yet. He's even admitted to the fact. He doesn't do well at comps.
Being military myself, and coming from a police family, being LEO/military doesn't mean jack shit. This whole video is just youe speculation on peoples backgrounds. I'd enjoy seeing you run drills against anyone you call out
Couldn't recommend enough Mas Ayoob's MAG-40 course for anyone who owns and/or carries a gun for self-defense. In addition to the outstanding material, Mas guarantees that he will serve as an expert witness in any trial involving any of his alumni, assuming the shooting is justified based on the evidence. He will also petition the court to show the entire MAG-20 curriculum to the jury before the trial to ensure each juror has seen exactly what ROE training you received before they render a verdict.
Well not impugning his skills as a instructor the whole “guarantee” thing is a bit of a pig in a poke. If you’re on trial for homicide who says the court will allow him as a “expert?” By the very nature of charge he could say I’m not testifying. Petition the court to show his entire mag40 course to the jury!?! That would be denied in a millisecond and laughed out of court.
Bilge Pump Actually, that would be the petition for the defense and it would have to be allowed or else it would be a violation of the individual’s Sixth Amendment Right which is part of the judicial process. Which can easily be brought up on appeal and then the verdict can be overturned. Furthermore, it can be condensed and you are not automatically able to say it would be laughed out of court. Judges have allowed weirder things to happen in their courtroom.
Semper Fi, the Judge can not disallow an affirmative defense. That would be like what the judge did in Gideon v. Wainwright when the Court did not provide counsel to Mr. Gideon. As such, Mr. Gideon’s conviction was overturned as it did indeed violate Mr. Gideon’s Sixth Amendment Right. To deny an affirmative defense would also be violating the individuals Due Process Rights. Furthermore, if I was defending an individual with that affirmative defense I would bring Mr. Ayoob is as an Amicus Curiae. Of course I would have to file it and notify the Judge and Prosecutor as it is part of the motion of discovery. Wonder how it goes in your jurisdiction?
@@BilgePump I've taken Ayoob's Rules of Engagement course and even though he is there in person, we watch 7 hours of videotaped lectures for the purpose of getting those videos, in their entirety, in front of the jury. It's a very worthwhile course.
Have you trained with these five instructors personally? Otherwise I don’t see how your opinion is valid. Internet information is one thing meeting people in person and training with them is something else.
Nah. It’s like dogshit - I can see with my eyes and know it’s dogshit, so I don’t have to roll around in it to confirm it. But hey if you want to roll in dogshit go ahead.
@@MrRevolver Nope. Wrong again. Training is NOT like that. YOU have to actually participate in a class to understand why the instructors do what they do in some cases. Its true and if you disagree then you would rather remain willingly ignorant than be well informed. In which case, you would be the worst possible person that I would ever want to encounter in the firearm world. I'm sure that you are telling the truth about the criminal histories and whatnot, but the actually quality of the training you cannot judge without actually participating. Others have commented here and proven that your research was woefully lacking on some of these topics. Put the shovel down and walk away.
I dont think a shot timer is necessary for a training class. You are there to learn skills, not perfect them. Learn the skills and drills in class, then practice with a shot timer later.
If a person is skilled with arms they need no "back ground". The skill speaks for itself. Can they Impart these skills to others? If yes then I see no issue with lack of back ground.
4:13 Does his personal views somehow effect his ability to teach someone how to shoot ? I am NOT defending the guy , It just makes it look like you are whining about things that are totally irrelevant . Not even going to bother going any further in the video .
Sure: why spend money with someone who is is a bigot and shitty person when they aren’t teaching anything you can’t get from someone who isn’t a piece of shit as a human being?
Ok but somebody's views have zero impact on somebody teaching you to perfect something you need to realize when to back off on arguments and when u go into insults or personal views instead of examples you should probably just shut up. Directed at gnm
It would have been so much easier for you if you had simply exited the video, but instead you got so buttmad that you had to post a comment. Thanks for the ad revenue, dickbag
I can't agree with the "LE, Military, and Competition" thing. I DO agree with the "competent and well trained" part. Someone who has been well-trained as a civilian and can actually teach trumps someone with lesser skills who served. Of course, if training and teaching ability are equal you should go to a trainer who has actual experience first.
I will add I know people that are former military that suck at shooting..... I know people that shoot competition that suck at shooting. Also you can watch Lucas and see that a lot of his stuff is slowed down, but never speed up. I will also say Lucas does a lot of videos that are will military people so I dont think that stuff is bullshit.
"Run your gun,not your mouth" every vid i've seen this guy is running his mouth or complaining about something or someone."Homophobic" many people find same sex couples strange,weird or confusing..you'd rather him conform then be honest? "Shot timers" agree to disagree,stopwatches don't make you run faster but allows you to track your progress overtime...my issue with using shot timers is each consecutive run in the same given day you'll probably get quicker times..but 2 weeks later,in different clothes,in rain or snow,in a different time of day,you'll have completely different times which again will quicken up with each consecutive run. Mil/LEO/Comp prereq is just blatantly insane and most people with those backgrounds would agree..my brothers in the usaf but works in "structures"/Sheet metal shop,they've never formally trained him in weapons short of shooting a handful of rounds in basic,many guys in LE know some basic stuff,most don't shoot and their training and techniques can't really transfer over to private citizens..
Shot timers are just a tool and deliver objective results. It´s about analysing the data. If you want to track your progress over the day, time consecutive runs. If you want to know how you perform on your first run of the day, use those results. If you are really serious about it, record other data like weather and clothing too.
I think there is a difference here though. Clint does appreciate messurable metrics. In his classes he doesnt use them but thats not the type of class he runs. 95% of his class is getting you mentally prepared for a fight you may have in your life and giving you good solid gun handling for the everyman that does come to his classes.
Which is the same thing I would say we're doing in the classes that don't use timers. I have considered Clint a bit of a mentor and certainly a great example of how to survive this industry for 30+ years. The CFS/IDS/DFS Courses are about practical armed defense, not winning competition or even become the best "shooter" you can be.
I disagree that a trainer needs to be former military or law enforcement to be an instructor. Concealed carry is a different animal. I was taught the fundamentals of shooting by a hunter. If you want a military or cop instructor because they have killed people, well ok. Philosophy, psychology and tactics could be learned from these individuals, but is that even typically done in these type of classes? Millions of men have killed people and never trained with shot timers.
Coyote Clone here is the thing, peoplenlike Vickers, TMAC, Hailey and others who pulled triggers in nearly every worst real world situation and know what works and what gets people killed. You don’t ever get that from reading a book or watch Magpul training dvd nonsense. Not every officer or military person can be or should be a trainer. Yet their first hand experience can save your life. See too many no name trainers doing shit that will get people killed. Saying you don’t need that experience to know what you are doing is beyond absurd, you might as well defensive driving tactics from a student driver trainer Also timer are retarded as hell for defensive training. You don’t need to shoot fast like some one in a shooting competition. You need to shoot well and make shots count. Can’t stand people who argue the shooting games makes them a better tactician if it ever happens
zack9912000 yea that’s still a no from me dawg, big difference in going to combat with rifles, armor, and fire team of people at my back trying to complete a mission.. I’m just trying not to have get stabbed and my Rolex stolen by the junkie who wants more heroin..
for handgun/ carbine / fighting. yes. you should probably listen to someone who's actually been in a fight. for precision shooting. id have no quams listening to every single thing a successfull hunter has to say. but I also don't train BJJ /mt from a instructor who hasn't ever spared.
I'm asking this question before I watch the video on purpose; did you attend any classes with the schools you are going to mention or at least talk to the instructors?
When you have experience and you're out there, sometimes you just know without conversing with the person. 9 out of 10 if you question that person they won't say they're wrong they'll just end up stubbornly defending their mistakes.
Wait you said, "they should...fight me." Well why? Can you give us 3 reasons why? If you are going to say: LEO/Mil because they had training, I already have reservations about the argument. If you say LEO/MIL because they may or maynot have combat experience, again, reservations. If your argument is outside of that, that is the answer I'd be interested in. As far as competition shooters, I would personally feel a bit more comfortable learning from a Comp Shooter to learn technical skills. I've attended classes from all three types of instructors. And I understand you've acknowledged that theres shitty instructors in all, but I think that goes without saying. It doesn't take a well informed person to know that. It just takes 1 shitty instructor. So again, why SHOULD they? What if the instructor you learn from has actual defensive experience as a civilian? Does that count?
Possibly the best endorsement I've ever gotten. Shot Timers don't lie.... but, you're lying to yourself if you think what they tell you matters all that much. That said, if Caleb had ever bothered to come to one of my classes, he would know how much and what I' demo. The cool thing is that YOU, my viewer friend, can google the Worlds Collide series I been doing with Rob Leatham, you can see all kinds of demos of my probably-above-80th Percentile Shooting Ability. ;-) ALL THAT SAID, If you trust Caleb here, please don't train with me, I'm super busy.... Train with any of the hundreds of certified instructors on our team or in the USCCA's Live Fire Curriculum, which I wrote. :-) As Always, thanks for the Shout-Out, Gun Nuts Media!
Gun Nuts Media well, not right now... no logos outside of Tour Season. Also, let me be clear, I have Awesome Vehicles, I just think I would have more of them if I were a better business man. New Game: guess which one of your other recommendations I 100% Agree with....
You forgot to mention Sonny Puzikas claims he was GRU Spetsnaz but was actually Vityaz MVD, and was essentially a prison guard that saw no combat aside from the occasional prison riot. His resumé was leaked from a firearms school a few years ago and it was extremely lackluster to say the least, and definitely not what he hypes himself up to be.
Im surprised you have hands and feet. I can see clean through you. I know where i am going for fire arm safety and instruction. You are not in any way professional or knowledgeable. You are a immediate danger to public safety. Your lack of knowledge will result in a fatality.
5 лет назад+5
Glad to see James Yeager didn't make the list. Fighting pistol is genuinely a good course. I can't vouch for anything else, or explain away the "cowardice" of why he was the only contractor in his company to follow the battle drills/sop, but fighting pistol is good to go.
Chris from Regular guy training is the best instructor I have ever taken classes from. I have taken several classes from him and I know quality instruction when I see it. Hes affordable, skilled, painfully honest and he cares about his students improvement . He has given the last 10 years of his life to defending our country from terrorists by serving in the armed forces. I love that guy like a brother. His classes have given me the skills I need to be confident in self defense scenario with a firearm. I strongly reccomend looking into his classes for self defence pistol and rifle class. They have been life changing for me.
I took a course at Gunsite Ranch in 1983. Col. Cooper was still running the show himself, and everything I learned is still holding me in good stead. One thing Jeff wouldn't tolerate was unsafe firearms handling. He didn't get obnoxious (like some instructors) but he would make it clear that you messed up. He also taught correct handling to those who did mess up.
"I don't care what you do in the bedroom, I just want to shoot guns and get old with as little government intervention as possible" HAHAHAHA! Just became my new favorite youtuber!
do you really think gays are keeping it in the bedroom nowadays? that was a slippery slope line of crap they pushed to gain social acceptance. most of them are just over sexed degenerates.
They never keep it in the bedroom. Anyone with two eyes can see the degeneracy that it has led to. Drag queen story time, anyone? Desmond is amazing? Normalized pedophilia is only a decade or so away.
@Aspiring Pyramidbuilder i used the term "fake news" because i knew it would trigger a snow flake conservative like yourself. Come on and man up, you make conservatives look weak.
Lmao you don't have to be but who would want to pay someone for instruction that doesn't have a resume? I don't, and no one else does. You'd have to start making a video series to prove what you can teach, and throw it into the pool of competition. Good luck.
@@WCGwkf Resumes arent exclusive to military and police sir laughs alot. A resume is a description of your professional career. I would judge a firearms instructor on alot of things but wether they were a LEO or military is irrelevant.
Dustin if you have no real world experience you don’t have a fucking clue what works or what is fluff. I laughed my ass off at the competition bs Magpul videos that was being put out. You must have to have experience other wise you are just another RUclips channel claiming to be a tactical expert. I am a combat vet and would suck as a trainer, yet I have more experience then most of the trainers claiming to be experts with no actual background
@@johnhenry9162 I think your misunderstading me John "condesending" henry. Wether or not youre a LEO or military does not make you a good firearms instructor. Just like being a good firearms instructor doesnt make you a good cop or soldier. Dont get all butthurt "cupcake" oooh burn sick get rekt scrub lol rofl yolo!
Oh my... sacred oxes will be gored. But good for you for calling out questionable instructors. I used to work for Front Sight and can verify the cult-like dogma and elite marketing schtick. Add to that, the director is a chiropractor who took a lot of courses and then opened his own school. While I don’t think you HAVE to be military or LE to be a trainer, learning from a chiropractor just doesn’t seem wise.
@@shawnjarman9860 I think Gun nuts media put it best, they ONLY want people to use weaver. Yeah no thanks. If one wants to teach, they should use any stance they feel comfortable with. I'm comfortable with isosceles stance due to the physics involved with recoil control.
@@GoreTorn16 - Never heard of Gun Nuts Media before someone pointed me to this video, but I know from firsthand experience that Front Sight is okay with you using isosceles. If you were trained in isosceles and you are LEO or mil and it is mandated that you do so, they don't want to mess up your training. Even if you are none of the above, you can still use iso if you want. They do teach Weaver because they get a lot of first-time shooters and they feel it is easier for new shooters to pick up and apply. What I've found about people who are iso shooters is that they are at least as dogmatic about their approach as Front Sight is accused of being. Again, FS is fine with you taking their class using iso. Most iso being taught nowadays is modified iso anyway, and most of these end up looking a whole lot like FS's modified Weaver. As to Gun Nuts Media's opinions on FS, take them with a grain of salt. He's never visited there or taken a class there. His opinion is all informed by, at best, second hand information. That should tell you what his opinion is worth.
Hahaha! Gabe Suarez messaged me on Facebook telling me he had "eyes everywhere" after I showed someone on his page the interview where he admitted to planning a mass shooting. Then he sent me his phone number in case anyone had a problem or something to that effect
Eric Rogers Jerry is the standard by which I would rate a potential instructor. If that instructor's make up even allows him to bad mouth Miculek, I'm out of there.
Jerry is an epic trainer when it comes to teaching marksmanship and shooting fast and accurately and shooting for competition. He is not, and will tell you this, he is not a combat instructor, or a defensive shooting trainer.
As an instructor I have difficulty saying other instructors are not worthy, but we all know of some. I believe you made a great point on where the instructor got experience “police, military and competitive shooting”. The students need to understand what they want to get from the class. As an instructor in the private sector, I don’t advertise. I don’t need to. Also I have now got to the point I can be very selective on who I Instruct. If the instructor is doing it solely for the money, it is the wrong answer. I have great students, they are my best marketing tool.
I watched the video with interest, and thought there was legitimate info there... and some that wasn't so legitimate IMHO. The commentary about Suarez is, in my opinion, based in only the most rudimentary evaluation of the facts. I've trained with a number of people, and the classes I took with Suarez were very, very good. His legal troubles amounted to the fact he was a cop who was medically retired, and who wanted to start a training school afterwards... and he was teaching stuff his former superiors in a politically liberal California agency thought had no business being taught to "mere civilians". They told him to stop, he refused. He also, as this was going on, became very serious about health and fitness and was able to train around his injuries to where he achieved a very high level of fitness... and his old agency promptly started prosecuting him for "fraud" for accepting medical retirement when he was, as they charged, "faking" his injuries. When he refused to back down, they went after his wife and friends, determined to either bankrupt him or force him to accept criminal convictions. Yes, he hit a breaking point where he was about ready to go to war against those attacking him, but he thankfully reconsidered, and accepted a plea deal ... a deal that protected his wife from further persecution, and sent him to jail but did not leave him with a felony conviction. You can judge his actions as you will, but I respect Suarez and learned a lot from him. Yes, he does not suffer fools lightly, but then neither did Jeff Cooper. That doesn't make him a "douchebag" IMHO. Just my take.
I’m curious how many of the people commenting that James Yeager/Tactical Response should be on this list have actually trained with them. Im guessing zero but if I’m wrong I’d be very interested to hear the reasoning behind it.
Truth vs opinion when it comes to this subject is a grey area it’s all anecdotal evidence, none of it is empirical. But the funny thing is I actually don’t disagree with most you have said. But is it necessary to trash others? No it’s a waste of time. I’d say cut your own trail as an instructor and add to the shooting community. We must all remember that right now our biggest enemy are the ones who wish to take our rights away via unconstitutional legislation. In that regard, we are all allies and must stick together, rather than this petty, “my kung fu school is better than your kung fu school” mentality.
B W Luckily I don’t run a kung fu school. I just don’t think that people should spend their training dollars in frauds, hucksters, and in the case of Suarez, convicted criminals.
Though I agree with some of the things you said there are some points that I highly disagree with. 1. Law Enforcement, Military and Competition Experience Not one of those three credentials makes a good teacher or even a good operator. You can have the best operator or shooter in the world and that person can be the worlds worst teacher. But on the flip side you can have someone who is solid in movement and tactics but not the best and they are able to teach others to be better. 2. Competition Shooting Though there maybe some factors that crossover from sport to real life the fact of the matter is you know your course of fire ahead of time. You don't get that benefit in real life and being military you should know that. Not to mention the true "OH SHIT" moment when you have that major adrenaline dump. Someone who has a solid self-defense background and shooting background can be a very effective teacher. This person should under angles, body movement and balance as part of their shooting skills. Not to mention weapons retention and more. No the traditional weaver stance is not taught much anymore in law enforcement, military or even defensive shooting. However if I have a student that performs better from that position than any other who am I to say its wrong. The simple fact is not any one method is right for every person. As far as the 5 you mentioned I only know of 3 of them. There is a guy in the area teaching for Suarez International. I hadn't heard of the instructor or organization and didn't find the info you gave (heard about it later). But, still got a gut churning feeling just like when I looked at Front Sight. It's alright that you want to share your experiences that helps but, sometimes we have to look beyond what we know and some people don't realize that anyone can learn to teach but won't even be a great teacher. Only those who have a true passion and a certain personality can be great teachers. As far as my experience with Massad Ayoob, well that man is a teacher.
Agreed. And for #1 re: mil/police/competition shooting, if the true measure at the end of the day is being a great shooter, I don’t see how the prior experience matters. For Botkin, I don’t think there is any arguing that he is an excellent shooter. Also, while he may be speeding up his times on social media, he still seems to be fast as hell.
I understand your point of view and really dont understand everyones hate on this video. I started my CCL journey and Gabes books were a great resource. After some research there was some negative thing that turned me off about going to a workshop. Which to your point the lack of standards of a great instructor could get someone killed. It is like going to someone that said they are a black belt in Judo and you find out is a former criminal or a liar. Kills the importance of the position. The people you mentioned do seem to fall short of achieving the your standards. There is nothing wrong with that. Education, character and background is all important when picking a person to learn from. So choose carefully, there is no reason to hate this guy because he is pointing out some facts. Some were about personalities which was a little high school but the core message I agree with. Lol Interesting topic and thanks for the info.
i would like to see you shoot better than lucas tbh. there is a reason alot of the well known shooters out there shoot with him, because the man can shoot pretty well. i have to strongly disagree with that part on the list. should have been replaced with voda
@@AbhishekSingh-pp1ks It's not, but insulting the man helps nothing. We don't need any of that in the 2A community. Educate, state your reason why, give proof or facts. People have their preference in shootings stances there are pros and cons to both stances. Paul Harrell, a USMC firearm instructor of 20 years has proven in multiple videos the weaver stance isnt6bad for recoil. You tube search Paul Harrell weaver stance and see for yourself. The man has legit credibility. Larry Vickers backed him up on the same claim and did videos all the same on why this isn't true. Paul shot a .44 mag in weaver and had recoild but it wasn't nasty recoil. See for yourself
I dont see how you can say that you love objective standards like shot timers and accuse the trex dude of speeding up vids when he shows the shottimer after shooting drills. Sure he doesn't have LE/Mil experience and the homophobic thing is definitely offputting, but u cant deny he's a good shooter. If he regularly trains LE depts, how would having LEO experience put you at a higher level of qualification?
Shit, people not liking gays is normal. The shit his family is known for (Botkin Syndrome) is what makes me steer clear. His sister's website is funny too on how she absolutely dumps on him for being a fake Warrior Poet who has a substance and lust problem (possibly incest).
Yeah his entire video was pretty much "I dont like these people and you shouldn't either". 90% character attacks and he talks about objective standards? What a moron.
All Lucas trains is technique, not tactics, I don't think he needs a military background to do that. Regarding speeding up videos, I believe he has already addressed this and it was some time ago now.
Troy Weatherford this video was also uploaded about a year ago now. Though I’ll give credit to Lucas for being a competent shooter, I don’t think he’s the tactical genius and expert that so many people nor his marketing videos make him out to be. Add to that his homophobia and somewhat arrogant attitude towards those he deems below him, and I’d stay away from him as a person. Still, that kid's done a damn good job of building a business and social media presence and I commend him on that.
@@tacomandood7371 he doesn't market himself as a tactical genius, he has very explicitly stated on social media and on his videos that his training is meant only for teaching muscle memory and shooting competence.
I don't care for T-rex Arms but Leo, Mil, Competitive shooting have nothing to do with certain kinds of shooting. For example, concealed carry self-defense pistols. None of those categories really focus on that topic. I actually don't care whatsoever if a person is a long term military or Leo guy. I actually will look more critically at a guy if he hangs his hat on that background. As you likely know, most mil/leo training is garbage and of little value to a person looking to instruct others in self defense. Lonestar training comes to mind. All their training is military and Leo and they're just bad. They don't have the right to instruct people in the private sector until they are students in it extensively first. I think it's unfortunate because new shooters think a cop or a marine can teach them how to shoot their pistol well by virtue of them being those things. Obviously that's not the case. I agree that an instructor needs to demo their drill for their students on demand. I don't however agree that we should be chasing a timer all day. After a few runs on a drill, it just becomes a game. So the timer should come out occasionally to measure progress, not to create the illusion of progress through repetition of a given drill, if that makes sense.
Gun Nuts Media I'm not saying the timer or any other objective measure isn't necessary. We need to measure our improvement. I just don't think the timer missing from a class is a big deal. Furthermore, we shouldn't be trying to measure improvement in a 1,2 or 3 day class. Class is where you learn how to do stuff correctly. Then you go home and practice what you've learned and improvement occurs through practice over a longer period of time. We can keep beeping in a students ear while he draws and shoots and miraculously he will be a second faster on try number 20 but that's a temporary improvement. Tomorrow he's not shooting out of the holster in 1.20 his first draw. His muscles(brain) just temporarily memorized the drill. Only over hundreds or thousands of draws, not necessarily on a timer, will the progress be more long lasting. It's kind of gimmicky to time a student, especially a new student and pretend that their new fast time over their original time validates the instructors teachings. It's like the chiropractor. You feel miraculously healed in their office but you'll be in pain again the next day. The progress that can and should be observed is from the instructors perspective. He can gauge how close to perfect a student performs a given task and make adjustments. Whether he's got a number to show the student or not is irrelevant to that progress. The more correct we can do a task in class, the more we can improve on our own with it later. The instructor has 8-24 hours to get you to understand as much as possible about what he's teaching you. I've got a timer at home. I can do that until the 9v battery goes dead on my own time. I want him correcting my skills, tactics, mindset etc. while in his presence. That's what we pay for.
On one hand my experience in several other areas where I achieved some skill tells me there's value to working to some objective measure, but most of the things I've learned to do at a high level didn't involve the kind of adrenaline dump folks get in a firefight. Don't know exactly how you train for that. I know it's taking me a while as a total newbie just to deal w the concussions of an indoor range. First training session I went from a 2-inch group to 12-inch once some folks started up with their cannons in the adjacent stations. At least I didn't pee myself... much. >:ºD
How do I continue to end up on this channel. I liked Caleb on top shot so I originally came to the channel because of that but soon learned he runs his mouth as much as his gun.
Good video. I do find it odd that military, law enforcement and competition are somehow unparalleled and hold so much weight. Any avid shooter can name a time or three they have outshot someone from one of those backgrounds in a circumstance that was out of their comfort zone. And no, law enforcement is not the holy grail of firearms training.
For great training and knowledge try valor ridge , Reid is an excellent instructor, shooter , and his professionalism is second to none... just saying...
Spot on, GS came to my location to give a class. I NEVER got a warm fuzzy from him.. Front Site, what a joke. Unless you have unlimited free ammo, to develop the new muscle memory and train to keep it up you will default to your lowest level of proficiency. I was trained by Jeff Cooper in 85' and survived several gunfights with solid hits.
Full disclosure; I’ve never heard of you before this video showed up in my feed. Clicked just to see who you were shitting on and why. I like Lucas, Sunny and Gabe (flaws and all) but have never trained with them and have no plans to do so. That said, your criticisms of them are valid and I was with you right up until you mentioned Massad Ayoob as a quality training resource. Expert witness? Absolutely! Capable of training students at a very basic level? Probably. Able to train students to actually prevail in a life or death situation? Not a chance. He’s an icon in the industry and has made some valuable contributions but he’s WAY past his “sell by date” and is stuck in an even more outmoded school of thought than that of which you accused Front Sight. Age and archaic methodology aside, the lack of physical prowess you criticized Lucas for is much more obvious in a septuagenarian like Mr. Ayoob. Gabe and Sunny were both innovators pushing the boundaries of firearms training in their day. Much of what is standard gunfighting doctrine today traces its roots directly back to guys like Gabe. Is he a deeply flawed individual? Yes. Is he still relevant today? Probably not. Be consistent in your standards or your credibility falls apart.
@@MrRevolver of course it matters, but is everything other than firearms the reason a person is a *firearms* instructor? did botkin actually say things other than shooting don't matter, or did he just avoid things other than shooting in a competition or two?
As we all know, you can say anything about anyone, but providing the evidence to back up your accusations is key. Not saying what you're saying is wrong, I'd just like to see where you've gotten your information. Trust but verify.
@@MrRevolver that's awesome man. Really is. But what I'm saying is that in your video, somewhere, you should include your evidence to prove your point. And just how did voda not make the list?
@@michaelgreen7511 I am in fact Speakman from Speakmans aquariums. Why? Are you looking for a sweet ass fish tank? Ps it's a pleasure to speak with you. I hope to train with you soon. I'm only 1 state away
@@SpeakmansAquariums, Haha, a sweet ass fish tank could be in my future! Hit us up at info@green-ops.com when you're ready to train and we'll make sure you get a discount!
I'll let Caleb manage his own beefs. Botkin's videos are very entertaining, I tend to enjoy them, and he looks UNGODLY fast. Sometimes I wonder about that. Keep in mind that I don't actually know anything, I'm just the peanut gallery here. Part of me wants the ungodly speed to be real. What can you or I do about any of that?
T Rex arms shows all his times on the shot timer when he does fast runs so idk what the future k this dudes talking about speeding up his times. Just bc someone doesn't have a background in military or law enforcement or comps doesn't mean you aren't a great shooter and can't relay that to other ppl. He trains police and swat so I'm guessing he knows his shit or the police wouldn't go back to him for more training. Idk who this guy bitching is cause I've never seen his channel but he sounds like a winey bitch who's a Lil jealous of ppl who can shoot well. His arguments are retarded. Well ugh well ugh well he said some hurting things wawawawa. Shut up bitch
Edwin V well yeah he's running a well known business. Idk him but him speeding up his videos is obviously bullshit cause in his videos he shoes his shot times on his shot timer. So what would be the point in speeding them up. Just not logical. The other I'm pretty sure he completes. But this guy on the videos sounds like a fuck tard. He's acting like he is the big bad and is a nobody. Like I said idk t Rex arms but his arguments are bullshit. He's a bad shooter cause he says mean stuff waaaa waaaaa waaaa. What???! Haha sounds like a down syndrome baby
@@jrbullock I dont agree with everything he says. Some training is better than no training. But I understand what hes saying I've trained with a few of the people. But with the credibility Lucas hes a good shot. Allot of PDs and military units go for his hand.
I think it is more if having BEEN an instructor in military or LEO that makes you a good civilian instructor. Having to coach several thousand people through their periodic quals exposes you different shooting problems. Depending on your organization you may have access to schools, range time and ammo to become a well trained firearms instructor. Bottom line is that you have to be good at what you teach and mil / leo instructors can build credentials that are worth my training dollars.
Glad you noticed the reservist and politician connection as well. I am a active-duty veteran and have worked for a retired nat guardsman who was a colonel and he what's the biggest politician type character I've ever personally known. Now during this election season all of our candidates are touting their reservist or nat guard time service as part of their resume for our votes and that's probably the only reason why they ever joined in the first place.
I’m so glad you didn’t mention the one instructor I trained with. He did a superb job to the point where I came out of his course with more confidence, skill, a better understanding of what when and why I would need to draw my firearm. I highly recommend him if you are new to handguns and want to acquire the skills needed for concealed carry. His name is John Correa, his company is Active Self Protection. I am not being compensated in any way by mentioning the company, I’m just a satisfied customer.
I don't spend enough time on social media to know who all these guys are, but it's refreshing to find someone with balls enough to give us his opinion with real names. Disappointingly, other channels do not. Oh, and please do another show with your friend cat woman, nice to hear from a woman of substance.
It's been over four years since I took a Pincus class, but I seem to remember him demoing techniques, live fire... Demoing can be helpful to some students but I've taken classes where the instructor didn't fire a shot; Craig Douglas, who topped your list of "go to people" comes to mind here; I don't recall Craig firing a single shot at his classes but I still learned a ton from him. I've heard of classes where the instructor shoots a lot but the students just perceive it as showing off. I think good curriculum can exist independently of doing a lot of shooting on the teacher's part. Just to be clear, I've come to also disagree with the "target focus" concept that Pincus teaches and I've been very disappointed in his milquetoast opinions on carrying in NPEs so I'm not trying to defend him; I just thought your opinion that him not shooting a lot when he teaches wasn't a valid reason for someone to make this list.
Thank you. I didn't expect you to name names. Since I'm no longer in the USAF, or working in corrections, time and money are of great value when choosing training options. Could you do a top 10 training sites you'd recommend, or list some trainers/facilities by state? Thanks.
I'm very annoyed at Sonny, due to him plugging his AI, the range where he did it banned members from shooting after dark. Which sucks because it was the only range I've been to where you are allowed to shoot 24/7, and I did much of my in the dark shooting there. Unlike in a class environment you actually have time to experiment and train.
Team Peg Leg Sadly accidents can happen, doesn’t make them a bad trainers. We lost 4 soldiers in training accidents before our deployment, training doesn’t always mean you work in bubble wrap environment
@@zack9912000 Yes training is dangerous, but Sonny's piss poor procedures cost the people of the DFW area a rare resource namely the ability to actually practice night shooting.
@@zack9912000 Unlikely, it isn't a high demand request, nor is it something that is granted even with range officers there to supervise. For most people their only night time shooting is in training. And thanks to Sonny's incompetence that will hold true for the general public in DFW.
My captain in my section in my Reserve unit had taught at Frontsight in Vegas and the over focus on old doctrine is what lead him to leave that company. He said their stance on their doctrine being the only doctrine was dangerous.
DavidSixSixFive that’s not true. Been going for 10 plus years, and yes they teach a certain way, and yes they ask that you try it there way while there, but realize there are other ways that may work better for you. But if you have your way, and are good at it, why you getting training in the first place?
I don't think I've actually heard people attack his training method. It's usually "lol he jumped in a ditch in Iraq". But I'd be interested in hearing about his short comings.
You’re the only one brave enough to say all this and name names (maybe Yankee Marshall but he’s a psycho too). Everyone throws shade, but you throw bombs. Good job! Next time call out the shills!
I teach a lot of new shooters, not like I charge you for teaching you or anything, it's more like a hobby, and I do it for free. Mainly teaching them the correct stance, grip, and other fundamentals, so they at least have something to work with. Most of them asked me why I didn't get an instructor license and teach. I know my limit, I'm not that good of a shooter, maybe slightly above average if I'm been cooky. But I'm not gonna charge people to learn from me.
Valor Ridge does not allow any internally modified guns in their classes. No aftermarket triggers, no home build ARs, etc. Only factory-made unmodified (internally) guns. Take that into consideration if you're thinking about training with them.
@Mister Revolver Respect for replying. If I'm being honest I don't know who you are, and I only listened to a few minutes of your video. It didn't take long to see who you are. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I thought a little humor with the negative feedback would make it more palatable, rather than outright saying you sound like a young lady.
hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha "I tried to be funny but it turns out I'm not funny so here's a comment explaining what a loser I am" Jesus you found like a five year old video, I can't imagine having so little going on in my life as you do
@Mister Revolver All things aside, it's pretty cool that you actually read and reply to comments. Don't let me waste your time, though, I can't imagine what you must charge by the hour with your credentials and experience, I know I can't afford it! I wish you all the best there guy, I mean that. But alas, all is well that ends ok, so I'll end this shit with a fuck you, but have a nice day😉
And what has this person done in life? What's he done in the firearms training world? It's probably a better idea to have more accomplishments than those you disdain before opening you mouth.
The mark of a professional instructor is that he doesn’t need to attempt to belittle another instructor.
"Run ur gun not ur mouth" as u stand there by ur plaques on the wall running ur mouth...
Nate McElroy the plaques are for running my gun.
I’ve earned it.
Gun Nuts Media you only have 3 plaques? No other trophies at all?
"You should be one of those three things..." re- military, LEO, or competition.
Sorry, but no. The entire mindset of each of those three things is completely different than a civilian defending themselves. Military and LEO each have completely different legal obligations and job responsibilities, and competition is about time pressure and scores. Can competition make you a better shooter? Sure. Does it inherently make you a good instructor? Nope. Neither do the other two.
And when it comes to Lucas he’s not even a good competition shooter. Google Duskin 3gun 2018. Lucas took 200th place lol
When it comes to how he markets himself, it’s usually “tactical” looking drills. He won’t say outright he’s a “tactical instructor”, but it sure does look like that’s how he’s trying to be perceived. I’d say Lucas markets himself more as a tactical instructor than he does a competition instructor. Neither of which he’s any good at.
Everything you said is true, BUT. You're leaving out a crucial element, civilians defending themselves so have very different legal responsibilities and limitations and it's essential to understand what they are.
However, just because you're in a position to defend yourself, doesn't necessarily qualify you to be an instructor. The very best instructors ARE still ex-military and LEO personnel, because it is what they do. They do it professionally. They undoubtedly have the most real world experience. If you want to shoot competitively, learn from an Olympic Gold Medalist. If you want to learn defensive shooting, then learn it from a veteran. And no one's saying that you have to pick either or. No one is saying you can't do both, just know the difference between the two.
Dishonorable mention… VODA.
Did Michael Douglas Thervil aka Luican Black ever threaten to sue you too? That guy is a soup sandwich and chock full a nuts . Voda makes everyone on Caleb's list look safe, sane and honest.
Voda is honestly not worth the time. He's so bad that it's self-evident. He's basically a walking meme. These other guys are good enough to dupe good people who aren't quite in the know. Voda only swindles people who don't know what end of the gun the bullets come out of. That doesn't make him better, just much less of a threat.
VODA?
I dont think Vodo is even worth a dishonorable mention as I dont think anyone would evem consider him a "trainer!"
VODA has gone on record admitting that he has NO professional training.... not a single class. He claims that they "have nothing to teach him". The arrogance..... Ironically, he's a Sonny Puzikas fan and Sonny laughs at him! Why should anyone invest in an instructor who doesn't invest in himself???
You do not have to be mil Leo to teach firearms training.
I took a CCW class from a long time FBI and law enforcement firearms instructor and he broke most of the safety rules in that eight hour class.
Yeah I’ve seen plenty of military and leo that can’t shoot for shit and competitive shooters typically just know how to win matches not gun fights
Then what makes you qualified? Learning from RUclips videos?
Did you not notice how he also stated "competition" in his criteria of what makes a good instructor? You just really should have first hand experience of some sort, whether in a martial context or a sporting context to be able to back up your knowledge. Why would you train witj someone who doesn't have any of that experience when there's hundreds of instructors who actually have legitimate experience to back up what they're saying?
@@Flemdragon Competence in your field - paired with the ability to clearly and concisely pass that knowledge along - qualifies you to teach your skillset.
Why does someone “have” to have a background in Military, Law enforcement or competition shooting in order to be an instructor?
It shouldn’t matter what a persons background is as long as what they teach is good. I know plenty of Leo’s and Military guys who don’t know enough about firearms to be a firearms instructor.
You know, I never said that just because someone was ex mil or LEO that they can be an instructor.
Gun Nuts Media I know that. I never implied that you were saying that. Im saying that being former military or a Leo shouldn’t be a must for an instructor. Knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge to others is what an instructor needs.
Does someone have to be a former Sniper to teach long range shooting?
No they don’t need to have been a sniper, but they better have shot some Palma or PRS matches.
The reason I put that caveat in the video is that there are way too many people with zero qualifications who are “instructors.”
@@MrRevolverthis is true
@@MrRevolver how do you justify this with the multitude of self taught hunters who can reach out and touch their targets without a law enforcement, military, or competition background?
0:57 Front Sight
2:33 Lucas Botkin
4:36 Rob Pincus
6:20 Sonny Puzikas
7:41 Gabe Suarez
regarding Front Sight, they've since come under new ownership and Ignatius Piazza is not involved anymore. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Sight_Firearms_Training_Institute
Military or police, you don’t know what your talking about. I’ve spent my life around and working with these people. They are not well trained with firearms. Those jobs do not indicate expertise. Good teachers are rare, teachers who are warriors more so.
I can literally name ten people off the top of my head who are decorated combat veterans and excellent instructors, and who also aren’t assholes.
Stay in your lane since you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I would agree that just because your military, law enforcement, or competition shooter should be the standard for which you judge people on their ability or qualification to be a firearm instructor. There are individuals civilians, military, law enforcement, and probably even competition shooters that just suck at firearms safety, running the gun, and even how they think. There needs to be a good set standard that instructors should judged by. I have luckily had some mentors in my life that where very good at running firearms, some of them where very good at communicating and transferring their skills to others and others that were very bad at teaching others. I will say that I can run a ar15 style rifle fairly well from my training, but during my time I only trained with a side arm twice. But I'm sure that you could find someone from a different unit that trained with a side arm a lot. Looking into that guy that shot a fellow instructor I found that there have been several accounts of law enforcement trainers both civilians and law enforcement who have shot themselves or others during training. Now I'm not saying that these backgrounds are not good indicators of a good instructor or even help give credibility, but I dont think that it should be the standard.
@@MrRevolver I can give a list of SEALs that I'd still trust my life with, but I wouldn't trust them for shit to give a civilian firearms training! And, they would AGREE WITH ME!!! 😂
30 seconds of full training: "Mag in the gun. Rack the gun. Point the gun at the douchebag! Shoot him in the nuts. Now, shoot him in the face! Shooting his boyfriend in the nuts. Let him bleed out! Good class everybody!!!"
@@MrRevolver Anecdotal evidence does not account for the whole.
@@MrRevolver nypd has a 30% hit rate when they aren't taking fire. I'd hope your average civilian that carries is better than your average LEO, we're actually responsible for our bullet placement.
As a student, veteran, and handgun combat master/instructor, I think you need to add yourself to that list as well ha!
lol, what was your MOS and what's your USPSA or IDPA classification so I can know whether or not to give a fuck about your opinion?
@@MrRevolverWhat is your SPAZ rating?
@@MrRevolvernd who the fjuck are you..?
IMO, being military or police does not matter as an instructor. I say this as a former Army instructor and drill sergeant. Little I did there helped me become an instructor other than being in front of people. Going to rangemaster and John Farnam classes has taught me more in teaching civilians self defense than uncle Sam ever did.
Having a background as a military or law enforcement professional is a sad standard for an instructor. Fight me.
He provided three potential backgrounds - all of which require further scrutiny/qualifications.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary I left out the third option for two reasons. First, a record of shooting competitive courses well gives no indication of an ability to instruct. Second, it supports the idea that civilians can train military and law enforcement, which invalidates the other two requisites. Military and LE experience also have no inherent causual relationship with being able to either shoot or instruct. Anyone can do it. I would like to see anyone in this comment section demonstrate that they can outshoot Lucas by a significant margin, then also give examples demonstrating inferiority in his instruction. I think T-RA's clientele speaks the loudest to what level of shooter and instructor he is.
@@Konvinced89 Military and Law Enforcement provides opportunities most dont experience or have an opportunity to experience. Blanket LE or Mil alone isnt enough though.
You’re right, just being a cop or a mil dude or an accomplished competition shooter isn’t enough. And in fact, there are great instructors out there who are none of those things, but they’re the exception, rather than the rule.
I use mil/LE/competition experience as a starting point for when I vet an instructor. As in “does he have one of these three things” and then if they do, I can proceed further into the vetting process. I’ve gone to instructors who had none of those things as well, and some were great and others were awful.
@@MrRevolver Understood. I'm saying it depends on what your requirements are. Could you link to confirmed data that Lucas speeds up video? I've seen tons of accusations but nothing substantive yet.
Dad taught me Weaver and modified Weaver stances. --- The Army didn't teach Dad to shoot, his father did. My grandfather was a pistolero.
Lots and lots of Leos and ex military kinda suck at shooting. So I wouldn’t discredit Lucas, his classes are recommended by reliable people.
Liberty on life support the military is probably the worst place for weapons training they still teach civil war tactics in 2019
Most leo don't shoot at all Outside of qualification.
Adam L 194 armor 101 airborne 3 and 4 th id
I guess this guy doesn't realize Lucas from Trex trains special mission units for the DOD .
Just because you've never seen combat , or kicked in a door doesn't mean your not a good teacher . I'm pretty sure Lucas is a Grand Master Comp shooter . I know he shoots in a shit ton of comps .
@@seanwhite304 he's not a grandmaster. He hasn't even placed in the middle of the pack yet. He's even admitted to the fact. He doesn't do well at comps.
Being military myself, and coming from a police family, being LEO/military doesn't mean jack shit. This whole video is just youe speculation on peoples backgrounds. I'd enjoy seeing you run drills against anyone you call out
Couldn't recommend enough Mas Ayoob's MAG-40 course for anyone who owns and/or carries a gun for self-defense. In addition to the outstanding material, Mas guarantees that he will serve as an expert witness in any trial involving any of his alumni, assuming the shooting is justified based on the evidence. He will also petition the court to show the entire MAG-20 curriculum to the jury before the trial to ensure each juror has seen exactly what ROE training you received before they render a verdict.
Well not impugning his skills as a instructor the whole “guarantee” thing is a bit of a pig in a poke. If you’re on trial for homicide who says the court will allow him as a “expert?” By the very nature of charge he could say I’m not testifying. Petition the court to show his entire mag40 course to the jury!?! That would be denied in a millisecond and laughed out of court.
Bilge Pump Actually, that would be the petition for the defense and it would have to be allowed or else it would be a violation of the individual’s Sixth Amendment Right which is part of the judicial process. Which can easily be brought up on appeal and then the verdict can be overturned.
Furthermore, it can be condensed and you are not automatically able to say it would be laughed out of court. Judges have allowed weirder things to happen in their courtroom.
strongly Agree with Mr Farns worth very much!
Semper Fi, the Judge can not disallow an affirmative defense. That would be like what the judge did in Gideon v. Wainwright when the Court did not provide counsel to Mr. Gideon. As such, Mr. Gideon’s conviction was overturned as it did indeed violate Mr. Gideon’s Sixth Amendment Right. To deny an affirmative defense would also be violating the individuals Due Process Rights.
Furthermore, if I was defending an individual with that affirmative defense I would bring Mr. Ayoob is as an Amicus Curiae. Of course I would have to file it and notify the Judge and Prosecutor as it is part of the motion of discovery. Wonder how it goes in your jurisdiction?
@@BilgePump I've taken Ayoob's Rules of Engagement course and even though he is there in person, we watch 7 hours of videotaped lectures for the purpose of getting those videos, in their entirety, in front of the jury. It's a very worthwhile course.
"NO SHOT TIMERS IN GUNFIGHTS!
NOW YEET THE BULLETS IN THIS GENERAL DIRECTION WHILE DUCK WALKING SLOWLY!"
Have you trained with these five instructors personally? Otherwise I don’t see how your opinion is valid. Internet information is one thing meeting people in person and training with them is something else.
I don’t need to get herpes to know I don’t want it
@@MrRevolver Not even close to the same thing. Sorry.
Its more like saying "Don't subscribe to these 5 youtube channels, but I have NEVER watched a video on any of them".....
Nah. It’s like dogshit - I can see with my eyes and know it’s dogshit, so I don’t have to roll around in it to confirm it.
But hey if you want to roll in dogshit go ahead.
@@MrRevolver Nope. Wrong again. Training is NOT like that. YOU have to actually participate in a class to understand why the instructors do what they do in some cases. Its true and if you disagree then you would rather remain willingly ignorant than be well informed. In which case, you would be the worst possible person that I would ever want to encounter in the firearm world. I'm sure that you are telling the truth about the criminal histories and whatnot, but the actually quality of the training you cannot judge without actually participating. Others have commented here and proven that your research was woefully lacking on some of these topics. Put the shovel down and walk away.
I dont think a shot timer is necessary for a training class. You are there to learn skills, not perfect them. Learn the skills and drills in class, then practice with a shot timer later.
If a person is skilled with arms they need no "back ground". The skill speaks for itself. Can they Impart these skills to others? If yes then I see no issue with lack of back ground.
Voda Tactical
Hands down the gold standard in modern firearms training 😎
ahahaa
4:13 Does his personal views somehow effect his ability to teach someone how to shoot ? I am NOT defending the guy , It just makes it look like you are whining about things that are totally irrelevant . Not even going to bother going any further in the video .
Sure: why spend money with someone who is is a bigot and shitty person when they aren’t teaching anything you can’t get from someone who isn’t a piece of shit as a human being?
Ok but somebody's views have zero impact on somebody teaching you to perfect something you need to realize when to back off on arguments and when u go into insults or personal views instead of examples you should probably just shut up. Directed at gnm
I need to avoid your channel.
It would have been so much easier for you if you had simply exited the video, but instead you got so buttmad that you had to post a comment.
Thanks for the ad revenue, dickbag
I did not get angry. But you must be a liberal or an antifa because you can't handle criticism.
Actually constructive criticism is fine. Butthurt pissbabies crying because I said their pet instructor sucks is something else.
@@davidrios8288 he must be antifa lol
Wow!!! A few triggered liberals here that still must be living in their parents basement or single mothers house.
I can't agree with the "LE, Military, and Competition" thing. I DO agree with the "competent and well trained" part. Someone who has been well-trained as a civilian and can actually teach trumps someone with lesser skills who served. Of course, if training and teaching ability are equal you should go to a trainer who has actual experience first.
Now I know why the internet hates Gabe. That’s some crazy shit.
I didn’t even know Lucas trains people. But military/leo/competition =\= good trainer.
Lucas is good enough that SpecOps guys have seemed training from him. like the unit came to him.
@@andrewdavid7379 big doubt
@@wb8864 You can always go check his instagram to see that it isn't bullshit.
I will add I know people that are former military that suck at shooting..... I know people that shoot competition that suck at shooting. Also you can watch Lucas and see that a lot of his stuff is slowed down, but never speed up. I will also say Lucas does a lot of videos that are will military people so I dont think that stuff is bullshit.
Be careful when I said the same thing he tried to insult me.
Clint said he never saw a shot timer in a gun fight....I believe him....
Needs more Voda.
av willis I truly hope this is a joke!
No one takes him seriously already
"Run your gun,not your mouth" every vid i've seen this guy is running his mouth or complaining about something or someone."Homophobic" many people find same sex couples strange,weird or confusing..you'd rather him conform then be honest? "Shot timers" agree to disagree,stopwatches don't make you run faster but allows you to track your progress overtime...my issue with using shot timers is each consecutive run in the same given day you'll probably get quicker times..but 2 weeks later,in different clothes,in rain or snow,in a different time of day,you'll have completely different times which again will quicken up with each consecutive run. Mil/LEO/Comp prereq is just blatantly insane and most people with those backgrounds would agree..my brothers in the usaf but works in "structures"/Sheet metal shop,they've never formally trained him in weapons short of shooting a handful of rounds in basic,many guys in LE know some basic stuff,most don't shoot and their training and techniques can't really transfer over to private citizens..
There are plenty of videos of me shooting, bub.
Sounds butthurt, pun intended.
Shot timers are just a tool and deliver objective results. It´s about analysing the data. If you want to track your progress over the day, time consecutive runs. If you want to know how you perform on your first run of the day, use those results. If you are really serious about it, record other data like weather and clothing too.
Shit just got real. Clint Smith doesn't use shot timers either, just sayin.
Understand he's mostly teaching regular folks how to safely handle guns.
@Mitchell Cluff like who?
Clint doesn't need a timer,,,,, he is the timer......lol
I think there is a difference here though. Clint does appreciate messurable metrics. In his classes he doesnt use them but thats not the type of class he runs. 95% of his class is getting you mentally prepared for a fight you may have in your life and giving you good solid gun handling for the everyman that does come to his classes.
Which is the same thing I would say we're doing in the classes that don't use timers. I have considered Clint a bit of a mentor and certainly a great example of how to survive this industry for 30+ years. The CFS/IDS/DFS Courses are about practical armed defense, not winning competition or even become the best "shooter" you can be.
I disagree that a trainer needs to be former military or law enforcement to be an instructor.
Concealed carry is a different animal.
I was taught the fundamentals of shooting by a hunter.
If you want a military or cop instructor because they have killed people, well ok. Philosophy, psychology and tactics could be learned from these individuals, but is that even typically done in these type of classes?
Millions of men have killed people and never trained with shot timers.
Coyote Clone here is the thing, peoplenlike Vickers, TMAC, Hailey and others who pulled triggers in nearly every worst real world situation and know what works and what gets people killed. You don’t ever get that from reading a book or watch Magpul training dvd nonsense. Not every officer or military person can be or should be a trainer. Yet their first hand experience can save your life. See too many no name trainers doing shit that will get people killed. Saying you don’t need that experience to know what you are doing is beyond absurd, you might as well defensive driving tactics from a student driver trainer
Also timer are retarded as hell for defensive training. You don’t need to shoot fast like some one in a shooting competition. You need to shoot well and make shots count. Can’t stand people who argue the shooting games makes them a better tactician if it ever happens
zack9912000 yea that’s still a no from me dawg, big difference in going to combat with rifles, armor, and fire team of people at my back trying to complete a mission.. I’m just trying not to have get stabbed and my Rolex stolen by the junkie who wants more heroin..
for handgun/ carbine / fighting. yes. you should probably listen to someone who's actually been in a fight. for precision shooting. id have no quams listening to every single thing a successfull hunter has to say. but I also don't train BJJ /mt from a instructor who hasn't ever spared.
I'm asking this question before I watch the video on purpose; did you attend any classes with the schools you are going to mention or at least talk to the instructors?
I don’t need to get herpes to know I don’t want to have herpes.
When you have experience and you're out there, sometimes you just know without conversing with the person. 9 out of 10 if you question that person they won't say they're wrong they'll just end up stubbornly defending their mistakes.
Wait you said, "they should...fight me." Well why? Can you give us 3 reasons why? If you are going to say: LEO/Mil because they had training, I already have reservations about the argument. If you say LEO/MIL because they may or maynot have combat experience, again, reservations. If your argument is outside of that, that is the answer I'd be interested in. As far as competition shooters, I would personally feel a bit more comfortable learning from a Comp Shooter to learn technical skills.
I've attended classes from all three types of instructors. And I understand you've acknowledged that theres shitty instructors in all, but I think that goes without saying. It doesn't take a well informed person to know that. It just takes 1 shitty instructor.
So again, why SHOULD they? What if the instructor you learn from has actual defensive experience as a civilian? Does that count?
I’d recommend Clint Smith, James Yeager, Pat McNamara, Chris Costa, Dave Herrington, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn
Haley Strategic?! Come on bro. Also John Lovell.
Yeager? Ha
@@MrTangent if so why does Clint Smith allow him to co-train
Tu Lam is legit too.
@@bryanbaker5942 lmao do they even still make shirts. I think he shops at tj max
Possibly the best endorsement I've ever gotten. Shot Timers don't lie.... but, you're lying to yourself if you think what they tell you matters all that much.
That said, if Caleb had ever bothered to come to one of my classes, he would know how much and what I' demo. The cool thing is that YOU, my viewer friend, can google the Worlds Collide series I been doing with Rob Leatham, you can see all kinds of demos of my probably-above-80th Percentile Shooting Ability. ;-)
ALL THAT SAID, If you trust Caleb here, please don't train with me, I'm super busy.... Train with any of the hundreds of certified instructors on our team or in the USCCA's Live Fire Curriculum, which I wrote. :-)
As Always, thanks for the Shout-Out, Gun Nuts Media!
Thanks for the comment, Rob! Like I said, you’re by far the best businessman in the training industry.
hmmmm... if that were true, I feel as though I would have more awesome vehicles.
Rob Pincus don’t you have a truck covered in logos?
Gun Nuts Media well, not right now... no logos outside of Tour Season. Also, let me be clear, I have Awesome Vehicles, I just think I would have more of them if I were a better business man.
New Game: guess which one of your other recommendations I 100% Agree with....
You forgot to mention Sonny Puzikas claims he was GRU Spetsnaz but was actually Vityaz MVD, and was essentially a prison guard that saw no combat aside from the occasional prison riot. His resumé was leaked from a firearms school a few years ago and it was extremely lackluster to say the least, and definitely not what he hypes himself up to be.
Im surprised you have hands and feet. I can see clean through you. I know where i am going for fire arm safety and instruction. You are not in any way professional or knowledgeable. You are a immediate danger to public safety. Your lack of knowledge will result in a fatality.
Glad to see James Yeager didn't make the list. Fighting pistol is genuinely a good course.
I can't vouch for anything else, or explain away the "cowardice" of why he was the only contractor in his company to follow the battle drills/sop, but fighting pistol is good to go.
Fighting Rifle is good to go too.
Chris from Regular guy training is the best instructor I have ever taken classes from. I have taken several classes from him and I know quality instruction when I see it. Hes affordable, skilled, painfully honest and he cares about his students improvement . He has given the last 10 years of his life to defending our country from terrorists by serving in the armed forces. I love that guy like a brother. His classes have given me the skills I need to be confident in self defense scenario with a firearm. I strongly reccomend looking into his classes for self defence pistol and rifle class. They have been life changing for me.
Your background is irrelevant! Teaching is it's own skill developed through practice.
I took a course at Gunsite Ranch in 1983. Col. Cooper was still running the show himself, and everything I learned is still holding me in good stead. One thing Jeff wouldn't tolerate was unsafe firearms handling. He didn't get obnoxious (like some instructors) but he would make it clear that you messed up. He also taught correct handling to those who did mess up.
"I don't care what you do in the bedroom, I just want to shoot guns and get old with as little government intervention as possible" HAHAHAHA! Just became my new favorite youtuber!
do you really think gays are keeping it in the bedroom nowadays? that was a slippery slope line of crap they pushed to gain social acceptance. most of them are just over sexed degenerates.
They never keep it in the bedroom. Anyone with two eyes can see the degeneracy that it has led to. Drag queen story time, anyone? Desmond is amazing? Normalized pedophilia is only a decade or so away.
@Aspiring Pyramidbuilder fake news
@Aspiring Pyramidbuilder i used the term "fake news" because i knew it would trigger a snow flake conservative like yourself. Come on and man up, you make conservatives look weak.
Well, O was taught weaver and it still works, aame as 30 yrs ago....
6,: Stevie Wonder, 7: Steven Hawkings, 8: MS13, 9: Dianne Feinstein, 10: Allahu Akbar
11 Dick Cheney
You trained a lot but I doubt you have learned you you needed to learn.
Lol
WHAT? I need to be LEO, Military, or a competition shooter to be a firearms instructor? Gtfo
Lmao you don't have to be but who would want to pay someone for instruction that doesn't have a resume? I don't, and no one else does. You'd have to start making a video series to prove what you can teach, and throw it into the pool of competition. Good luck.
@@WCGwkf Resumes arent exclusive to military and police sir laughs alot. A resume is a description of your professional career. I would judge a firearms instructor on alot of things but wether they were a LEO or military is irrelevant.
Dustin if you have no real world experience you don’t have a fucking clue what works or what is fluff. I laughed my ass off at the competition bs Magpul videos that was being put out.
You must have to have experience other wise you are just another RUclips channel claiming to be a tactical expert. I am a combat vet and would suck as a trainer, yet I have more experience then most of the trainers claiming to be experts with no actual background
@@PeaceManBro Irrelevant you say? So guys who have " been and done and seen the Elephant" are " irrelevant"..........sure thing there cupcake.
@@johnhenry9162 I think your misunderstading me John "condesending" henry. Wether or not youre a LEO or military does not make you a good firearms instructor. Just like being a good firearms instructor doesnt make you a good cop or soldier. Dont get all butthurt "cupcake" oooh burn sick get rekt scrub lol rofl yolo!
Oh my... sacred oxes will be gored. But good for you for calling out questionable instructors. I used to work for Front Sight and can verify the cult-like dogma and elite marketing schtick. Add to that, the director is a chiropractor who took a lot of courses and then opened his own school. While I don’t think you HAVE to be military or LE to be a trainer, learning from a chiropractor just doesn’t seem wise.
Holy shit. I did not know Piazza was a Scientologist. I think um.............I'm going to avoid them now.
GoreTorn16 yes he’s a scientologists, but that doesn’t make front sight a bad place!
@@shawnjarman9860 I think Gun nuts media put it best, they ONLY want people to use weaver. Yeah no thanks. If one wants to teach, they should use any stance they feel comfortable with. I'm comfortable with isosceles stance due to the physics involved with recoil control.
@@GoreTorn16 - Never heard of Gun Nuts Media before someone pointed me to this video, but I know from firsthand experience that Front Sight is okay with you using isosceles. If you were trained in isosceles and you are LEO or mil and it is mandated that you do so, they don't want to mess up your training. Even if you are none of the above, you can still use iso if you want. They do teach Weaver because they get a lot of first-time shooters and they feel it is easier for new shooters to pick up and apply. What I've found about people who are iso shooters is that they are at least as dogmatic about their approach as Front Sight is accused of being. Again, FS is fine with you taking their class using iso. Most iso being taught nowadays is modified iso anyway, and most of these end up looking a whole lot like FS's modified Weaver. As to Gun Nuts Media's opinions on FS, take them with a grain of salt. He's never visited there or taken a class there. His opinion is all informed by, at best, second hand information. That should tell you what his opinion is worth.
Hahaha! Gabe Suarez messaged me on Facebook telling me he had "eyes everywhere" after I showed someone on his page the interview where he admitted to planning a mass shooting. Then he sent me his phone number in case anyone had a problem or something to that effect
Jerry Miculek is the GREATEST shooter and trainer.
Eric Rogers Jerry is the original badass
Eric Rogers Jerry is the standard by which I would rate a potential instructor. If that instructor's make up even allows him to bad mouth Miculek, I'm out of there.
Jerry is an epic trainer when it comes to teaching marksmanship and shooting fast and accurately and shooting for competition. He is not, and will tell you this, he is not a combat instructor, or a defensive shooting trainer.
More importantly jerry is a true gentleman
As an instructor I have difficulty saying other instructors are not worthy, but we all know of some. I believe you made a great point on where the instructor got experience “police, military and competitive shooting”.
The students need to understand what they want to get from the class. As an instructor in the private sector, I don’t advertise. I don’t need to. Also I have now got to the point I can be very selective on who I Instruct. If the instructor is doing it solely for the money, it is the wrong answer. I have great students, they are my best marketing tool.
I watched the video with interest, and thought there was legitimate info there... and some that wasn't so legitimate IMHO. The commentary about Suarez is, in my opinion, based in only the most rudimentary evaluation of the facts. I've trained with a number of people, and the classes I took with Suarez were very, very good. His legal troubles amounted to the fact he was a cop who was medically retired, and who wanted to start a training school afterwards... and he was teaching stuff his former superiors in a politically liberal California agency thought had no business being taught to "mere civilians". They told him to stop, he refused. He also, as this was going on, became very serious about health and fitness and was able to train around his injuries to where he achieved a very high level of fitness... and his old agency promptly started prosecuting him for "fraud" for accepting medical retirement when he was, as they charged, "faking" his injuries. When he refused to back down, they went after his wife and friends, determined to either bankrupt him or force him to accept criminal convictions. Yes, he hit a breaking point where he was about ready to go to war against those attacking him, but he thankfully reconsidered, and accepted a plea deal ... a deal that protected his wife from further persecution, and sent him to jail but did not leave him with a felony conviction. You can judge his actions as you will, but I respect Suarez and learned a lot from him. Yes, he does not suffer fools lightly, but then neither did Jeff Cooper. That doesn't make him a "douchebag" IMHO. Just my take.
I KNEW Coop , and trained with him in the old API days , Coop had morals and ethics. Suarez............not so much.
I’m curious how many of the people commenting that James Yeager/Tactical Response should be on this list have actually trained with them. Im guessing zero but if I’m wrong I’d be very interested to hear the reasoning behind it.
True professionals don’t trash others they plot their own course and people admire these things and tend to listen.
Telling the truth isn’t trashing people.
Truth vs opinion when it comes to this subject is a grey area it’s all anecdotal evidence, none of it is empirical. But the funny thing is I actually don’t disagree with most you have said. But is it necessary to trash others? No it’s a waste of time. I’d say cut your own trail as an instructor and add to the shooting community. We must all remember that right now our biggest enemy are the ones who wish to take our rights away via unconstitutional legislation. In that regard, we are all allies and must stick together, rather than this petty, “my kung fu school is better than your kung fu school” mentality.
B W Luckily I don’t run a kung fu school. I just don’t think that people should spend their training dollars in frauds, hucksters, and in the case of Suarez, convicted criminals.
Calling someone a douch bag....is trashing him.
@@MrRevolver dont bruise that arm, hitting that ejector
Ha ha. Don’t worry. I’ll tell people to stay away from you too. Also shut up with this “fight me” crap. You would lose. Just stop.
How did he forget VODA?
People have been trying to do that for years.
7:15 wrong. He absolutely did explain his fuckup, he owned his fuckup. 100%
Though I agree with some of the things you said there are some points that I highly disagree with. 1. Law Enforcement, Military and Competition Experience
Not one of those three credentials makes a good teacher or even a good operator. You can have the best operator or shooter in the world and that person can be the worlds worst teacher. But on the flip side you can have someone who is solid in movement and tactics but not the best and they are able to teach others to be better.
2. Competition Shooting
Though there maybe some factors that crossover from sport to real life the fact of the matter is you know your course of fire ahead of time. You don't get that benefit in real life and being military you should know that. Not to mention the true "OH SHIT" moment when you have that major adrenaline dump.
Someone who has a solid self-defense background and shooting background can be a very effective teacher. This person should under angles, body movement and balance as part of their shooting skills. Not to mention weapons retention and more.
No the traditional weaver stance is not taught much anymore in law enforcement, military or even defensive shooting. However if I have a student that performs better from that position than any other who am I to say its wrong. The simple fact is not any one method is right for every person.
As far as the 5 you mentioned I only know of 3 of them. There is a guy in the area teaching for Suarez International. I hadn't heard of the instructor or organization and didn't find the info you gave (heard about it later). But, still got a gut churning feeling just like when I looked at Front Sight. It's alright that you want to share your experiences that helps but, sometimes we have to look beyond what we know and some people don't realize that anyone can learn to teach but won't even be a great teacher. Only those who have a true passion and a certain personality can be great teachers. As far as my experience with Massad Ayoob, well that man is a teacher.
And AGAIN..........RIGHT THERE. Well said Brandon.
@@johnhenry9162 thanks
Agreed. And for #1 re: mil/police/competition shooting, if the true measure at the end of the day is being a great shooter, I don’t see how the prior experience matters. For Botkin, I don’t think there is any arguing that he is an excellent shooter. Also, while he may be speeding up his times on social media, he still seems to be fast as hell.
I understand your point of view and really dont understand everyones hate on this video. I started my CCL journey and Gabes books were a great resource. After some research there was some negative thing that turned me off about going to a workshop. Which to your point the lack of standards of a great instructor could get someone killed. It is like going to someone that said they are a black belt in Judo and you find out is a former criminal or a liar. Kills the importance of the position.
The people you mentioned do seem to fall short of achieving the your standards. There is nothing wrong with that. Education, character and background is all important when picking a person to learn from. So choose carefully, there is no reason to hate this guy because he is pointing out some facts. Some were about personalities which was a little high school but the core message I agree with. Lol
Interesting topic and thanks for the info.
i would like to see you shoot better than lucas tbh. there is a reason alot of the well known shooters out there shoot with him, because the man can shoot pretty well. i have to strongly disagree with that part on the list. should have been replaced with voda
I’d like to see Lucas show up for a major match that he doesn’t quit like a lil’ bitch
Gunsite would be awesome, but $1,725 for a 5 day class, plus food and lodging and airfare is a tad much for the average guy.
"Run your gun, not your mouth" Spends entire video running his mouth, doesn't fire 1 round lol good video
I have plenty of other shooting videos
Fair enough. Ironically, I think I prefer your talking/mindset/discussion videos.
me too!
@@SeannoG1 😂
Weaver stance the best option for shooting the larger magnums. Isosoles method goes well with trend toward 9mm.
Weaver stance is shit for recoil control you fucking imbecile.
@@AbhishekSingh-pp1ks It's not, but insulting the man helps nothing. We don't need any of that in the 2A community. Educate, state your reason why, give proof or facts. People have their preference in shootings stances there are pros and cons to both stances. Paul Harrell, a USMC firearm instructor of 20 years has proven in multiple videos the weaver stance isnt6bad for recoil. You tube search Paul Harrell weaver stance and see for yourself. The man has legit credibility. Larry Vickers backed him up on the same claim and did videos all the same on why this isn't true. Paul shot a .44 mag in weaver and had recoild but it wasn't nasty recoil. See for yourself
@@AbhishekSingh-pp1ks You don't shoot magnums and don't know what you're talking about. Ignorance lives in you.
What... no Voda?
TRex and Pinky mentions were priceless (and sooooo true).
I dont see how you can say that you love objective standards like shot timers and accuse the trex dude of speeding up vids when he shows the shottimer after shooting drills. Sure he doesn't have LE/Mil experience and the homophobic thing is definitely offputting, but u cant deny he's a good shooter. If he regularly trains LE depts, how would having LEO experience put you at a higher level of qualification?
Shit, people not liking gays is normal. The shit his family is known for (Botkin Syndrome) is what makes me steer clear. His sister's website is funny too on how she absolutely dumps on him for being a fake Warrior Poet who has a substance and lust problem (possibly incest).
Yeah his entire video was pretty much "I dont like these people and you shouldn't either". 90% character attacks and he talks about objective standards? What a moron.
Botkin is a phony who makes up shit as he goes along. I bet he'd outrun Yeager after first contact.
@Mark Belk ok incest supporter
All Lucas trains is technique, not tactics, I don't think he needs a military background to do that. Regarding speeding up videos, I believe he has already addressed this and it was some time ago now.
Troy Weatherford this video was also uploaded about a year ago now. Though I’ll give credit to Lucas for being a competent shooter, I don’t think he’s the tactical genius and expert that so many people nor his marketing videos make him out to be. Add to that his homophobia and somewhat arrogant attitude towards those he deems below him, and I’d stay away from him as a person. Still, that kid's done a damn good job of building a business and social media presence and I commend him on that.
@@tacomandood7371 he doesn't market himself as a tactical genius, he has very explicitly stated on social media and on his videos that his training is meant only for teaching muscle memory and shooting competence.
I don't care for T-rex Arms but Leo, Mil, Competitive shooting have nothing to do with certain kinds of shooting. For example, concealed carry self-defense pistols. None of those categories really focus on that topic. I actually don't care whatsoever if a person is a long term military or Leo guy. I actually will look more critically at a guy if he hangs his hat on that background. As you likely know, most mil/leo training is garbage and of little value to a person looking to instruct others in self defense. Lonestar training comes to mind. All their training is military and Leo and they're just bad. They don't have the right to instruct people in the private sector until they are students in it extensively first. I think it's unfortunate because new shooters think a cop or a marine can teach them how to shoot their pistol well by virtue of them being those things. Obviously that's not the case.
I agree that an instructor needs to demo their drill for their students on demand. I don't however agree that we should be chasing a timer all day. After a few runs on a drill, it just becomes a game. So the timer should come out occasionally to measure progress, not to create the illusion of progress through repetition of a given drill, if that makes sense.
The timer is an example - if an instructor doesn’t use an objective, repeatable standard to evaluate students, then how do you measure improvement.
Gun Nuts Media I'm not saying the timer or any other objective measure isn't necessary. We need to measure our improvement. I just don't think the timer missing from a class is a big deal. Furthermore, we shouldn't be trying to measure improvement in a 1,2 or 3 day class. Class is where you learn how to do stuff correctly. Then you go home and practice what you've learned and improvement occurs through practice over a longer period of time. We can keep beeping in a students ear while he draws and shoots and miraculously he will be a second faster on try number 20 but that's a temporary improvement. Tomorrow he's not shooting out of the holster in 1.20 his first draw. His muscles(brain) just temporarily memorized the drill. Only over hundreds or thousands of draws, not necessarily on a timer, will the progress be more long lasting. It's kind of gimmicky to time a student, especially a new student and pretend that their new fast time over their original time validates the instructors teachings. It's like the chiropractor. You feel miraculously healed in their office but you'll be in pain again the next day.
The progress that can and should be observed is from the instructors perspective. He can gauge how close to perfect a student performs a given task and make adjustments. Whether he's got a number to show the student or not is irrelevant to that progress. The more correct we can do a task in class, the more we can improve on our own with it later. The instructor has 8-24 hours to get you to understand as much as possible about what he's teaching you. I've got a timer at home. I can do that until the 9v battery goes dead on my own time. I want him correcting my skills, tactics, mindset etc. while in his presence. That's what we pay for.
On one hand my experience in several other areas where I achieved some skill tells me there's value to working to some objective measure, but most of the things I've learned to do at a high level didn't involve the kind of adrenaline dump folks get in a firefight. Don't know exactly how you train for that. I know it's taking me a while as a total newbie just to deal w the concussions of an indoor range. First training session I went from a 2-inch group to 12-inch once some folks started up with their cannons in the adjacent stations. At least I didn't pee myself... much. >:ºD
How do I continue to end up on this channel. I liked Caleb on top shot so I originally came to the channel because of that but soon learned he runs his mouth as much as his gun.
Good video. I do find it odd that military, law enforcement and competition are somehow unparalleled and hold so much weight. Any avid shooter can name a time or three they have outshot someone from one of those backgrounds in a circumstance that was out of their comfort zone. And no, law enforcement is not the holy grail of firearms training.
For great training and knowledge try valor ridge , Reid is an excellent instructor, shooter , and his professionalism is second to none... just saying...
Spot on, GS came to my location to give a class. I NEVER got a warm fuzzy from him.. Front Site, what a joke. Unless you have unlimited free ammo, to develop the new muscle memory and train to keep it up you will default to your lowest level of proficiency. I was trained by Jeff Cooper in 85' and survived several gunfights with solid hits.
Full disclosure; I’ve never heard of you before this video showed up in my feed. Clicked just to see who you were shitting on and why. I like Lucas, Sunny and Gabe (flaws and all) but have never trained with them and have no plans to do so. That said, your criticisms of them are valid and I was with you right up until you mentioned Massad Ayoob as a quality training resource. Expert witness? Absolutely! Capable of training students at a very basic level? Probably. Able to train students to actually prevail in a life or death situation? Not a chance. He’s an icon in the industry and has made some valuable contributions but he’s WAY past his “sell by date” and is stuck in an even more outmoded school of thought than that of which you accused Front Sight. Age and archaic methodology aside, the lack of physical prowess you criticized Lucas for is much more obvious in a septuagenarian like Mr. Ayoob. Gabe and Sunny were both innovators pushing the boundaries of firearms training in their day. Much of what is standard gunfighting doctrine today traces its roots directly back to guys like Gabe. Is he a deeply flawed individual? Yes. Is he still relevant today? Probably not. Be consistent in your standards or your credibility falls apart.
1) this video is 4 years old
2) self defense is about a lot more than just shooting and Mas knows that
@@MrRevolver “self defense is about a lot more than just shooting…” Fair point. But if you can’t shoot, does the rest really matter?
Yes, it absolutely does. Lots of self-defense situations are resolved without guns ever coming into play, and that's important
@@MrRevolver so do you still agree with what you said 4 years ago or not?
@@MrRevolver of course it matters, but is everything other than firearms the reason a person is a *firearms* instructor? did botkin actually say things other than shooting don't matter, or did he just avoid things other than shooting in a competition or two?
As we all know, you can say anything about anyone, but providing the evidence to back up your accusations is key. Not saying what you're saying is wrong, I'd just like to see where you've gotten your information. Trust but verify.
Everything I said in this video is verifiable via an easy google search.
@@MrRevolver that's awesome man. Really is. But what I'm saying is that in your video, somewhere, you should include your evidence to prove your point. And just how did voda not make the list?
Lucas is a Halloween costume larping joke...
criticism is the easiest thing to do !
Hahaha! You might be short, but you've got big BALLS!
Are you Mike Green from Green Ops on trigger time tv?
@@SpeakmansAquariums Depends...Do I owe you money? Are you Speakman from Speakmans Aquariums? ;)
@@michaelgreen7511 I am in fact Speakman from Speakmans aquariums. Why? Are you looking for a sweet ass fish tank?
Ps it's a pleasure to speak with you. I hope to train with you soon. I'm only 1 state away
@@SpeakmansAquariums, Haha, a sweet ass fish tank could be in my future! Hit us up at info@green-ops.com when you're ready to train and we'll make sure you get a discount!
The problem is Caleb is so insecure he feels the need to frequently "prove" he actually has balls by showing his ass.
What about the age old notion..."Those who can Do, those who can't teach"?
What? T-Rex speeds up the videos? No way! Now you're going to tell me some BS about Santa Claus and pro wrestling.
I'll let Caleb manage his own beefs. Botkin's videos are very entertaining, I tend to enjoy them, and he looks UNGODLY fast. Sometimes I wonder about that. Keep in mind that I don't actually know anything, I'm just the peanut gallery here. Part of me wants the ungodly speed to be real. What can you or I do about any of that?
T Rex arms shows all his times on the shot timer when he does fast runs so idk what the future k this dudes talking about speeding up his times. Just bc someone doesn't have a background in military or law enforcement or comps doesn't mean you aren't a great shooter and can't relay that to other ppl. He trains police and swat so I'm guessing he knows his shit or the police wouldn't go back to him for more training. Idk who this guy bitching is cause I've never seen his channel but he sounds like a winey bitch who's a Lil jealous of ppl who can shoot well. His arguments are retarded. Well ugh well ugh well he said some hurting things wawawawa. Shut up bitch
@@jrbullock actually, T rex arms has trainers that train shooters..
Edwin V well yeah he's running a well known business. Idk him but him speeding up his videos is obviously bullshit cause in his videos he shoes his shot times on his shot timer. So what would be the point in speeding them up. Just not logical. The other I'm pretty sure he completes. But this guy on the videos sounds like a fuck tard. He's acting like he is the big bad and is a nobody. Like I said idk t Rex arms but his arguments are bullshit. He's a bad shooter cause he says mean stuff waaaa waaaaa waaaa. What???! Haha sounds like a down syndrome baby
@@jrbullock I dont agree with everything he says. Some training is better than no training. But I understand what hes saying I've trained with a few of the people. But with the credibility Lucas hes a good shot. Allot of PDs and military units go for his hand.
I think it is more if having BEEN an instructor in military or LEO that makes you a good civilian instructor. Having to coach several thousand people through their periodic quals exposes you different shooting problems. Depending on your organization you may have access to schools, range time and ammo to become a well trained firearms instructor. Bottom line is that you have to be good at what you teach and mil / leo instructors can build credentials that are worth my training dollars.
Pincus also carries himself like a politician. Part of that army reserve officer acumen.
Glad you noticed the reservist and politician connection as well. I am a active-duty veteran and have worked for a retired nat guardsman who was a colonel and he what's the biggest politician type character I've ever personally known. Now during this election season all of our candidates are touting their reservist or nat guard time service as part of their resume for our votes and that's probably the only reason why they ever joined in the first place.
I’m so glad you didn’t mention the one instructor I trained with. He did a superb job to the point where I came out of his course with more confidence, skill, a better understanding of what when and why I would need to draw my firearm. I highly recommend him if you are new to handguns and want to acquire the skills needed for concealed carry. His name is John Correa, his company is Active Self Protection. I am not being compensated in any way by mentioning the company, I’m just a satisfied customer.
Ask Rob Pincus “You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?” Lol
I don't spend enough time on social media to know who all these guys are, but it's refreshing to find someone with balls enough to give us his opinion with real names. Disappointingly, other channels do not. Oh, and please do another show with your friend cat woman, nice to hear from a woman of substance.
Lmdao! I smell a lawsuit for defamation from T-Rex bruh! Lmao wise words
"I just wanna shoot guns and get old with minimal government interference as possible" that sums up most of us here.
So no shot time is a deal breaker?.. thunder ranch and tactical response dont use timers either
Nah, it’s just an indicator. As long as a school uses objective, repeatable standards it’s cool.
@@MrRevolver 👍 good video
It's been over four years since I took a Pincus class, but I seem to remember him demoing techniques, live fire...
Demoing can be helpful to some students but I've taken classes where the instructor didn't fire a shot; Craig Douglas, who topped your list of "go to people" comes to mind here; I don't recall Craig firing a single shot at his classes but I still learned a ton from him. I've heard of classes where the instructor shoots a lot but the students just perceive it as showing off. I think good curriculum can exist independently of doing a lot of shooting on the teacher's part.
Just to be clear, I've come to also disagree with the "target focus" concept that Pincus teaches and I've been very disappointed in his milquetoast opinions on carrying in NPEs so I'm not trying to defend him; I just thought your opinion that him not shooting a lot when he teaches wasn't a valid reason for someone to make this list.
On top of that, Pincus has come off as a bit of a compromiser on gun rights lately. He certainly doesn't seem to be our biggest ally.
Thank you. I didn't expect you to name names. Since I'm no longer in the USAF, or working in corrections, time and money are of great value when choosing training options. Could you do a top 10 training sites you'd recommend, or list some trainers/facilities by state? Thanks.
Until now I thought YM was the biggest jerk on youtube. Congrats - you stole the trophy.
Awwww did I insult one of your internet heroes?
I'm very annoyed at Sonny, due to him plugging his AI, the range where he did it banned members from shooting after dark. Which sucks because it was the only range I've been to where you are allowed to shoot 24/7, and I did much of my in the dark shooting there. Unlike in a class environment you actually have time to experiment and train.
Team Peg Leg Sadly accidents can happen, doesn’t make them a bad trainers. We lost 4 soldiers in training accidents before our deployment, training doesn’t always mean you work in bubble wrap environment
@@zack9912000 Yes training is dangerous, but Sonny's piss poor procedures cost the people of the DFW area a rare resource namely the ability to actually practice night shooting.
Team Peg Leg with demand other ranges will pick up the slack
@@zack9912000 Unlikely, it isn't a high demand request, nor is it something that is granted even with range officers there to supervise. For most people their only night time shooting is in training. And thanks to Sonny's incompetence that will hold true for the general public in DFW.
My captain in my section in my Reserve unit had taught at Frontsight in Vegas and the over focus on old doctrine is what lead him to leave that company. He said their stance on their doctrine being the only doctrine was dangerous.
DavidSixSixFive that’s not true. Been going for 10 plus years, and yes they teach a certain way, and yes they ask that you try it there way while there, but realize there are other ways that may work better for you. But if you have your way, and are good at it, why you getting training in the first place?
I shoot Weaver and i shoot just fine thank you.
Surprised Yeager didn’t make the list.
@@ogarzabello it ain't solid.
I don't think I've actually heard people attack his training method. It's usually "lol he jumped in a ditch in Iraq".
But I'd be interested in hearing about his short comings.
@@carnut666 Google "Tactical Response downrange photographer" and "Tactical Response shoots truck".
Even Massad Ayoob says he's a very good trainer.
@@simonmaguire5250 what's Ayoob supposed to say?
Lol when the guy who was spanked for lying online talks about character flaws
except I never lied about anyone, hmmm
The liar lies about lying..shocker 😂
Man, you totally nailed Gabe Suarez. Although "douche" is an understatement. Arrogant asshole is more accurate.
You’re the only one brave enough to say all this and name names (maybe Yankee Marshall but he’s a psycho too). Everyone throws shade, but you throw bombs. Good job!
Next time call out the shills!
Your argument is invalid. YankeeMarshall doesn't do training and didn't claim to be anything special.
@@OKCSABOT You obviously need to read his comment again stupido(that's stupid in Spanish).
@@OKCSABOT TYM is prior military and law enforcement. But he is also more of a novice shooter.
@@Vinnytwotime also italian.
I teach a lot of new shooters, not like I charge you for teaching you or anything, it's more like a hobby, and I do it for free. Mainly teaching them the correct stance, grip, and other fundamentals, so they at least have something to work with. Most of them asked me why I didn't get an instructor license and teach.
I know my limit, I'm not that good of a shooter, maybe slightly above average if I'm been cooky. But I'm not gonna charge people to learn from me.
I learned a lot at Valor Ridge
Reid seems like a solid dude that I'd like to train with someday. His classes sell out quickly.
Valor Ridge does not allow any internally modified guns in their classes. No aftermarket triggers, no home build ARs, etc. Only factory-made unmodified (internally) guns. Take that into consideration if you're thinking about training with them.
Roadtrip53 i was interested in Valor Ridge until Reid put up that video. I’m not interested in Valor Ridge anymore.
Frank Bama it’s for safety reasons. Too many internet gunsmiths building unsafe weapons these days.
Alamo1836 I don’t buy that at all but his school, his rules.
This guy only goes out with his hold me back guy so he can run his mouth with no consequences.
awww, which one of your heroes did I correctly pillory?
@Mister Revolver Respect for replying. If I'm being honest I don't know who you are, and I only listened to a few minutes of your video. It didn't take long to see who you are. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I thought a little humor with the negative feedback would make it more palatable, rather than outright saying you sound like a young lady.
hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha
"I tried to be funny but it turns out I'm not funny so here's a comment explaining what a loser I am"
Jesus you found like a five year old video, I can't imagine having so little going on in my life as you do
@Mister Revolver All things aside, it's pretty cool that you actually read and reply to comments. Don't let me waste your time, though, I can't imagine what you must charge by the hour with your credentials and experience, I know I can't afford it! I wish you all the best there guy, I mean that. But alas, all is well that ends ok, so I'll end this shit with a fuck you, but have a nice day😉
Fair play!
Damn, been waiting a LONG time for more content from you and you did not disappoint.
And what has this person done in life? What's he done in the firearms training world?
It's probably a better idea to have more accomplishments than those you disdain before opening you mouth.
okay, I do.
Now what?