@LudietHistoria 11:10 I dont think there should that much old peoples ludi cause the old peoples mostly migrate to west to stay alive or do not migrated to west and did not stay alive there is a reason why every where conquered by Genghis Khan is 0 devolopment.
But yes I think the tatar must not be that differented from each other cause they are nomads they not farm they feed cows and other animals and keep migrating with seasons they not even build houses cause who going to take care of it when where at an other part of land so they lived in tents. And nomad are the actual communist people before Ussr exist cause in a horde you can not own any thing even food it is all owned by goverment and they let you use them.
2:00 that's because it's not a corridor Ludi those are locations, Pavia did say that the reason why there are a lot of "uninhabited" lands is because there weren't any permanent settlements that we know of since the people there were nomads
People in those regions were a mix of nomadic, semi-nomadic and sedentary with seasonal farming, even the nomadic people temporarily settled in those regions to farm, it is the region with the highest concentrations of chernozem after all, the most fertile land and home to some really populous sedentary ancient civilizations
They're impassable terrain (around Aral sea in GH) because I assume it's just Kazakh desert. There's still NOTHING in the vast majority of these areas and the corridor follows a river.
They are just lazy to make accurate horde territories. Because Aral has two rivers and majority of the cities located near those rivers exist to these days. With the exception of some cities that went into ruins due to russian/soviet colonialism. And I guess game devs intentionally lowered the starting dev of the horde nations for balance purposes, because probably historically accurate development of hordes are making them too op. Like them being able to conquer too much land I think.
@@Adventeuan Alexander marched his army through already known routes in one of the longest inhabited places in the world not through a salty flatland with no reliable freshwater supply. Highlands of Persia are MUCH more inhabitable too. You won't get attrition in southern Kazakhstan marching an army in 1300s, you will lose everyone. It's impassable because people will lose entire armies because of automatic pathing.
Kazan being high dev is probably developers way to portray where the metallic industry of the empire located. Because it was the place where cannons were made.
From an earlier dev diary they said that development is supposed to represent how cultivated a land is. That's why the hordes are so low in dev, they weren't very fond of settling down as farmers, being nomads and all.
I'm actually from the Ural area, and the fact that the mountains are mostly hills is pretty accurate as they have been weathered significantly over time, and more recently by mining efforts. The amount of mountains in the area should nevertheless be increased.
@@dinostancyberbully8561They need to burry the EU4 "Lets just bunch up Slovaks and Hungarians together, but make Koreans an isolate culture" mentality 6 feet deep with this new game. They have the opportunity to start anew they cant fugg it up😢
Yeah he keeps mentioning it but the thing is Moldova was not organized into any kind of state, and had no King. The region was essentially a buffer region between two major powers. Ludi kills me with these comments. Like when he mentions there were Romanians in 1337 no actually they were just Vlachs at this point bruh.
Hongoraians are definitelly not hungarians. There were some hungarians in the east, stayed behind near the Volga river till the 13. century. Hungarian dominican Friar Julian actually found them in 1236, when he returned one year later, the eastern hungarian were completly destroyed by the mongols.
The Hongoraians are definitely not related to us Hungarians, because the accounts of Friar Julian who visited these 'eastern hungarians' places their locations elsewhere, I believe near the Volga river in Volga Bulgaria. And it's believed that when the Mongols came all of them were wiped out. Even if not all of them to the letter, there would definitely not be enough there in one place to form a major enough people group to depict.
@@neversarium thats just soviet propaganda. The term kazakh is used among turkic nations to describe nomads(kind of like english nomad, russian kochevnik and etc, so turkic people called pastors kazakhs). Thats why many slavic serfs who escaped russia started to call themselves as cossacks. Because they adopted the lifestyle of the local pastoral people.
@@QasqaZhol It was just a term or word that described an occupation or the lifestyle, but not an ethnicity. They called themselves Uzbeks, that is, the people of Khan Uzbek, who was the leader of the Golden Horde at that time.
@@zondor8123 This is true, but the point is that modern Uzbeks have nothing to do with the nomadic Uzbeks. The nomadic Uzbeks began to call themselves Kazakhs, and a small part of them fled to Transogdiana, where they founded the Bukhara Khanate, passing on their name to the local population.
I hate how they erased karluks the modern uyghurs are actually karlucks the uyghurs fled to gansu and became yugurs so it's so inacurate that they removed karluks
Hongoraian is a typo it should be Khongoraian, which refers to the Khakas who are indigenous Turkic Siberian people. Khongoraian is very outdated though Khakas is the modern terminology so seems weird they would use it.
@@DaVoltaire What he means is that the term "Khongoraian" wasnt a term used by the Khakas to refer to themselves. At no time did the Khakas call themselves Khongoraian. Its why the other guy brought up the Inuit. The relationship between the Inuit never calling themselves "Eskimos" and the Khakas never calling themselves "Khongoraian" is the exact same.
17:24 *Pahari kingdoms* Pahari means mountain people, but it is also the name of the language they spoke, and the name of the ethinc group that lived along the himalayan mountain range. Nepali is just a citizenship for people from the country of nepal.
I assume the point is that you can unify Japan, but the clans persist in the buildings and more or less have to be integrated as local nobility. If Japan faces another Sengoku Jidai, they can rise up more naturally than just jury-rigging some event (problem with EU4 engine is that the daimyo clan cores can expire.)
Uighurs were not forcibly converted to islam by the chagatai, islamisation was a slow process that began with the conversion of the kara-khanid turks (circe tenth century) who were ruling over the uighurs prior to the mongols. (Although chagatai nobles embracing islam certainly also contributed significantly) Uighurs would not completely convert to islam until the 17th century (long after the chagatai) so here we should have a mixture of muslim and buddhist uighurs.
@@gamuhnerdu4759 in general when it comes to Islam, he seems to be more harsh and very quick to say negative things while overexaggerating negative events relating to Islam.
Why there is no connected corridor in 2:00? Because Syr-Daria river does not flow on, just ends in Aral Sea in the middle of desert. Unihnabited even today.
The east Hungarians were mongolized, and adopted New culture and language, but they kept the names of their tribes and exists until today. Hungarians from panonia tried to contact their lost brothers and successed just before the mongol invasion. The entire story is very interesting but a little bit sad 😢
@@lolasdm6959 Its not about just han and yuan tho, from tibet to mongolia to delhi people used silk road. Even if yuan used sea routes primarily to india there was still other places to trade
@@Zartzurt-b5x No, it was cheaper to transport goods to Delhi by sea. Boats go by wind, animals and humans eat food to walk on land. Boats also faster than walking and can carry more things than camels and horses.
Long story short, in Caucasus people spread so sparse and disconnected. Terrain is so hard to pass that two close villages can have completely different languages. It is the reason why a lot of empires failed to hold Caucasus
2:00 This is big a river, which is surrounded by uninhabittable steppes and deserts, so thats why, if I remember right this river called Syrdaria or smth like that
18:54 it's a Ferghana valley, a most developed area of central asia in that time period. two western spots are Samarkand and Bukhara(later developed by Temur Lang), eastern are Tashkent, Ferghana and Kokand, afair.
There is (or at least was) a tribe of people calling themeselves the "madzsars" or something like that in the south of the Urals called Bashkortostan, where Julian (hungarian monk travelling east to find the ancient homeland of the hungarians) could speak to the locals using his own hungarian knowledge, but that was in the 13th century (he returned soon to warn king Béla IV. about the mongols) and everything else is theoretical. I think the 'Hongorians' are Paradox's best try at guessing what happened to these people
Nah, Magna Hungaria was nowhere near modern Khakassia, the name "Hongoraian" is actually a reference to an old name applied to the Turkic Khakas, Khongorai
Although there in EUIV Vajrayana is essentially a divergence from Mahayana, with most of the core tenets left unchanged. So it makes sense not to consider them separate, otherwise they would have to add other schools of Mahayana (especially Chan) to remain coherent.
I think they clearly gave the M&T guys a bit too much leeway when making Central Asia. Mountain ranges are one thing but chokepoints on the open steppe? Come on. It's all well and good to say that those places were never really inhabited or colonized during the timeframe of the game, but that many corridors is just bonkers and ahistorical. Armies absolutely could and did pass through those regions to attack those that lived on the other side (cough, Genghis Khan wrecking Kwaresmia cough) without needing to take some unignorable strongpoint. So no, that region has to change to not allow easy bottlenecking, since that is neither balanced nor historical.
I was under the impression that the 'wasteland' areas in EU5 are uninhabitable not impassable. Armies can travel through, they just get whacked with a bunch of attrition for crossing a desert / mountain range
@@cammyshill3099 And for the Sahara or Arabia, that's perfectly fine and I have zero problem with it. For central asia though, there's plenty of historical accounts of armies passing through some "unpassable/lifeless" piece of desert and appearing out of nowhere without taking massive attrition, because the deserts in question aren't large or comprised of sanddunes enough to really restrict military movements if done by a competent cavalry force, even if off course they are large enough to make settling those areas impossible by pre-industrial means.
Impassable terrain areas in the Turkestan region is weird because Turkic hordes regularly raided Sassanid and later Islamic states there, and when things got too heated just retreated back into the desserts or into the vast steppes
They should improve map borders, so that they can support both medieval and modern borders, like how it is in eu4 extended timeline mode, i really hate it when i cannot recreate some historical borders...
I wonder if there will be a passing point across the Aral sea to each side of the corridors. Basically a strait crossing that we have currently in EU4. and its possible due to the size of the map you do not see said crossing but could potentially be there if zoomed in? Would make for even more interesting strategic holdings and annoyance when attempting to invade the Kazakh lands of Golden Horde
Thinking about the culture map I can definitely see overhaul potential with Nogai overlapping into Crimean lands both in the north caucasus and odessa areas. The borders on Crimea itself should also be more fizzled-out albeit I don't know off hand while writing this what the number has to be for something to be shown graphically in stripes.
I have to agree with how Paradox treats impassable terrain. I lived in an area that is considered impassable for EU5 (Not on this Tinto Maps). A little mountain range which tops at 2000m. It isnt a wasteland, lots of people have lived and worked there for centuries, but I agree that it is impassable since armies have only traversed it since 1750's or so and only successfully in campaign by Napoleon and WW2 era forces. That is I agree with pdx tinto as long as it is balanced so that area's pops and production is acounted in nearby locations instead.
The Hongoraian People are probably old hungarians who was left behind after the frist migration. Before the mongol invasion reached Europe a hungarian monk (Julianus) traveled to the region and made contact with them. He also learned about the mongol threat and rushed home to tell the king. However Julianus made a 2nd journey to the region after the mongols conqured it and reported non of the old hungarians was found there. This is weird there.
Magna Hungaria was more to the European side of the Urals, not all the way northwest of Mongolia, in fact Hungarians were never even there And apparently "Hongoraian" actually refers to Khongorai, an old name applied to the Turkic Khakas
I honestly hope PDX does Silesia level revision on these regions, especially with things like missing Moldavia or millions of people being converted within 20 years (While yes it would probably work on smaller scale with convert or die method, but I doubt everyone who would convert would truly convert, which might be an interesting function of people "converting"?) aswell as smaller more cosmetic changes like Bashkortostani people, which I know for a fact as I know a person with Bashkir grandparents they wouldn't call themself "Bashkortostani" but "Bashkir people", not to mention suffix -stan is just "land of" or "Hongorians" which personally based on some research should be called either Khakas, or Khongorai people. One small nitpick I have is as you said it's not confirmed whether Chagatai Khan truly converted to nestorianism being specified as a fact by Roger. Overall I love your view and commentary on it as it always gives me something new to learn about. And yes, Urals being considered "hills" is just wrong in all aspects and shouldn't of been this way from the start.
While I agree that hills might be an unsuitable term for the topography of the urals it is an comparable classification to what they had in the germany DD. Urals have a median height of 1000-1300 meters with the surounding area being about ~200m above zero. The various "Mittelgebirge" in central and south germany, aswell as the mountains surrounding czechia, were also classified as hills, while being IMO not so far off of the urals in the height category. Maybe a Renaming of the category or an additional one would be the best to clear this up
16:15 Yuan were not red , the Ming were initially before they adopt the imperial Yellow Yuan's flag was blue with a white mongol symbol or Red so their main colors is blue with minor white and red Ming were the ones going full Red when they were part of the Red turbans. for the game color the Yuan should be either blue or Yellow since the Yuan got quickly an identity crisis and became more chinese than mongol
Actually official history doesnt offer anymore leads about origins of Hungarians, so it could be anywhere in central Asia. Much more is known after 370. and joint efforts with the Slavic Goth tribes and attack on the Roman empire and final settlement around Pannonia basin... So since no exact location, it could be what devs suggest :)
You know what the game needs Locations that are half wasteland They cant be colonised, theyll always be owned by nobody (maybe a tag can own it if they own all real provinces in contact with it). But it is traversable by armies Theres so many places like that which were impossible to inhabit, but have people pass through them
Interestingly, while the Urals are geographically mountains, I’ve met a handful of people in academia (all either Russians or experts on Russia) who like to diminish them, so this isn’t JUST a Paradox being weird thing.
15:35 Ibn taymiyyah's description of the early "converts" of Tatars(Mongols) wouldn't be the case for the later ones; if the Tatars(Mongols) were like this, I think Ibn taymiyyah would praise the,m..
So, the definition of a hill vs. a mountain in absolute terms compared to EU gameplay terms is obviously different. You have to consider "is it possible to build fortifications on the very peaks of this province" and for the Urals the answer is most definitely no, they would have to build any building for that matter on a much more gradually inclining hill as the mountains themselves were not scaleable. Unlike provinces like Como in Europe which is a valley where you simply can not go around it and the location of the fort itself would be hostile
In general, such a map of Tatar Yoke still wrong. Muscovy collected taxes only from northern principalities. Galicia-Volhynia, Kyiv, Chernihiv, and probably Smolensk were kinda direct vassals
I really hope the culture system from 4 is heavily changed, I don't really like how it worked. Maybe some Culture Merging and Diverging, and just being able to pop convert isn't a thing.
The game gets dumber and dumber. Galician culture, Volhynian culture, now other random names that derive from names of the states they mostly made up as well.
So PDX claim that dev on the dev map mode is a combination of infrastructure and population, yet Chagatai is basically all black dev while having double the pop of the GH which has not only more land, but also way more areas with higher dev? Something doesn't sound quite right.
Also I'm shocked about Chagatai's population. 14 Million!?!? Twice that of the much larger Golden Horde, and from the nation centered around the area that was beyond annihilated by Genghis a century ago? I mean, I'll take their word for it since I don't know anything about this region, but wow that's surprising. I guess it somewhat explains why the armies both they and later Timur invaded india and persia with were so massive, but still, damn.
The areas under the Chagatai were mostly under Kipchak/Cuman or Khwarezmid domination before the Mongols, with lots of developed cities along the Silk Road. Although the Mongols ravaged Khwarezmian cities like Urgentch, the rest of the land was spared, while the Volga Bulgars or the Kievan Rus' lands under the Golden Horde were almost completely exterminated (with civil wars/famines/infighting among Rus successor states for a long time...)
I have already written an identical message on the forum, but I want to leave a comment here. I have been waiting for a map of central Asia for a long time, as I am an Uzbek myself and live in Uzbekistan. I am extremely disappointed. Considering the tendency of Paradox to add a variety of cultures, adding one Khorezmian culture was a big mistake. Transoxiana (Maverannahr) was inhabited by 92 so-called Uzbek tribes (such as Tamerlane's tribe, the Barlas), and the sedentary inhabitants of major cities such as Samarkand and Bukhara were Tajiks. Even now, a large number of people in these cities consider Tajik as their native or second language of communication. Another point is the presence of Fergana location as a map. The city of Fergana was founded by the Russians in the 19th century, and the name Fergana at that time referred only to the valley - Fergana Valley. The modern city of Almaty was also founded by the Russians in a later era, and at that time existed only as a small settlement.
Well, is it arctic climate if it's not because of the pole? Would a very cold climate at the southern hemisphere be arctic as well? Will we find himalayan polar bears at Himalaya? C'mon Paradox!
Tibet should be Vajrayana/Tantric and not Mahayana, while the Tarim Basin was Mahayana, and also I dont get why the Tarim has so many Kohrazmians, by the 1300s the majority of people should be Uyghur/Turkic, and basically no remnants of Tocharians and other Iranians were in so big position, maybe in the Kashgar gate area there should be that amount of Kohrazmians, but definitely not in the rest of the Basin. And the corridor that goes from the east to the Aral Sea is the Oxus River, today called Amu Daria.
While Hongorianians are not part of the Magyar (ugric) culture group Nyenyets, Udmurt, Mansi, Mari and Khanty actually are. Wonder if culture groups will be a thing cause it makes very little sense for finno-ugric people to have bonuses for people living thousands of kms away from each other. We literally only have a few words and some basic grammar in common. We are farther away than German is to English.
I heavily doubt a last gen i9´s gonna run this game smoothly after like 50 years. Hope paradox doesn’t mess this game up. We don’t need eu5 to run as slow as millenium dawn on hoi4.
Qocho and its former lands, basically what is today northern Xinjiang should be represented by 3 documented religions at this point in time. Buddhism should be the primarily religion, Nestorianism and Islam ought to be minority religions. Nestorian Christians in the Golden Horde that Ludi talks about are basically all from Qocho. They were brought to the West by Mongols to serve as missionaries, clerks, secretaries, administrators for the Mongol ruling elites there. What is today southern Xinjiang should be represented by Islam as main and Nestorianism as secondary religion.
and another point is that Khabze is not a religion for us Circassians (Adyghe, as we call ourselves). Khabze is the norms and rules of behavior of every Adyghe in society.
I don't know a lot about Eastern European history. Are the eastern Slav cultures historical? It's weird not to see a "Russian" culture. Was medieval Russia truly so heterogeneous?
Curious if PDX listens? ruclips.net/video/9AnS7iUYTHo/видео.html
@LudietHistoria 11:10 I dont think there should that much old peoples ludi cause the old peoples mostly migrate to west to stay alive or do not migrated to west and did not stay alive there is a reason why every where conquered by Genghis Khan is 0 devolopment.
But yes I think the tatar must not be that differented from each other cause they are nomads they not farm they feed cows and other animals and keep migrating with seasons they not even build houses cause who going to take care of it when where at an other part of land so they lived in tents. And nomad are the actual communist people before Ussr exist cause in a horde you can not own any thing even food it is all owned by goverment and they let you use them.
I think the desert impassible terrain should overtime with tech advancements become provinces if you make them provinces.
Living in an area that paradox considers impassable terrain actually feels nice
Bro's house is not required for a world conquest 😭
Where is that?
@@Mattilainen45 Berlin
@@alexander1055 Hamburger
Sorry boss can't make it into the office today, it's impassable terrain
I can’t wait for the Australian Hongarian Empire achievement
🤣🤣🤣😍
It. Must. Happen.
2:00 that's because it's not a corridor Ludi those are locations, Pavia did say that the reason why there are a lot of "uninhabited" lands is because there weren't any permanent settlements that we know of since the people there were nomads
It's so funny watching ludi trying not to be biased but he failed anyways 😂
Then shouldn't those be empty, colonizable provinces?
I'd also think it was do to the trade lanes that took advantage of the sea, and that merchants might use.
People in those regions were a mix of nomadic, semi-nomadic and sedentary with seasonal farming, even the nomadic people temporarily settled in those regions to farm, it is the region with the highest concentrations of chernozem after all, the most fertile land and home to some really populous sedentary ancient civilizations
EU4: World Conquest by 1700!
EU5: Survive till 1700!
They're impassable terrain (around Aral sea in GH) because I assume it's just Kazakh desert. There's still NOTHING in the vast majority of these areas and the corridor follows a river.
They are just lazy to make accurate horde territories. Because Aral has two rivers and majority of the cities located near those rivers exist to these days. With the exception of some cities that went into ruins due to russian/soviet colonialism.
And I guess game devs intentionally lowered the starting dev of the horde nations for balance purposes, because probably historically accurate development of hordes are making them too op. Like them being able to conquer too much land I think.
Alexander marched his army through a desert. Shouldn't be impassable.
@@Adventeuan You should be able to pass through it, it should give you a lot of attrition unless you have special desert troops or something.
@@Adventeuan Alexander marched his army through already known routes in one of the longest inhabited places in the world not through a salty flatland with no reliable freshwater supply. Highlands of Persia are MUCH more inhabitable too. You won't get attrition in southern Kazakhstan marching an army in 1300s, you will lose everyone. It's impassable because people will lose entire armies because of automatic pathing.
remember it's also a video game and it's essentially 0 dev land making it wasteland might as well be part of optimization
Kazan being high dev is probably developers way to portray where the metallic industry of the empire located. Because it was the place where cannons were made.
From an earlier dev diary they said that development is supposed to represent how cultivated a land is. That's why the hordes are so low in dev, they weren't very fond of settling down as farmers, being nomads and all.
Probably cuz existing volga bulghars were there for a long time ago and joined horde without much fight unlike rest of cuman-kypchak federation
@@mehmetfatihcetin5932they fought against horde and managed to take one of Ghengis khans general but eventually got subjugated by tatars.
The weird corridor is the Syr Darya.
I'm actually from the Ural area, and the fact that the mountains are mostly hills is pretty accurate as they have been weathered significantly over time, and more recently by mining efforts. The amount of mountains in the area should nevertheless be increased.
I wonder how the AI will response to navigable Caspian Sea, I hope we dont see Golden Horde spamming hundreds of ships in a lake
100+ cultures ?
Indonesia with 1331 ethnic group each with its own culture: "Hah, amateurs"
Watch them lump them up as “malay”. Not that i blame them. Personally i’m wouldn’t add all the cultures
@@dinostancyberbully8561 🔫😐
@@AHappyCub🪓😎
@@dinostancyberbully8561 🔫🤨🔫
@@dinostancyberbully8561They need to burry the EU4 "Lets just bunch up Slovaks and Hungarians together, but make Koreans an isolate culture" mentality 6 feet deep with this new game. They have the opportunity to start anew they cant fugg it up😢
That's right. Moldova didn't exist in 1337. The first mentions of Moldova were in 1360s
This needs more likes
Ludi needs to see this!!
Wow your comment just changed everything ludi must see IT!
Yeah he keeps mentioning it but the thing is Moldova was not organized into any kind of state, and had no King. The region was essentially a buffer region between two major powers. Ludi kills me with these comments. Like when he mentions there were Romanians in 1337 no actually they were just Vlachs at this point bruh.
Hes also said multiple times that it wasnt a unified nation, but was a bunch of small independent nations which werent ruled under the golden horde
Hongoraians are definitelly not hungarians. There were some hungarians in the east, stayed behind near the Volga river till the 13. century. Hungarian dominican Friar Julian actually found them in 1236, when he returned one year later, the eastern hungarian were completly destroyed by the mongols.
The Hongoraians are definitely not related to us Hungarians, because the accounts of Friar Julian who visited these 'eastern hungarians' places their locations elsewhere, I believe near the Volga river in Volga Bulgaria. And it's believed that when the Mongols came all of them were wiped out. Even if not all of them to the letter, there would definitely not be enough there in one place to form a major enough people group to depict.
10:30 kazakhs being depicted as uzbeks is one of the biggest insults that i have ever taken
Bro we started calling ourselves Qazaq in 15th century only
@@neversarium thats just soviet propaganda. The term kazakh is used among turkic nations to describe nomads(kind of like english nomad, russian kochevnik and etc, so turkic people called pastors kazakhs). Thats why many slavic serfs who escaped russia started to call themselves as cossacks. Because they adopted the lifestyle of the local pastoral people.
No kazakhs at the time called themselves "kazakh", you guys broke apart from uzbeks and have your own culture decades later
@@QasqaZhol It was just a term or word that described an occupation or the lifestyle, but not an ethnicity. They called themselves Uzbeks, that is, the people of Khan Uzbek, who was the leader of the Golden Horde at that time.
@@zondor8123 This is true, but the point is that modern Uzbeks have nothing to do with the nomadic Uzbeks. The nomadic Uzbeks began to call themselves Kazakhs, and a small part of them fled to Transogdiana, where they founded the Bukhara Khanate, passing on their name to the local population.
I hate how they erased karluks the modern uyghurs are actually karlucks the uyghurs fled to gansu and became yugurs so it's so inacurate that they removed karluks
Hongoraian is a typo it should be Khongoraian, which refers to the Khakas who are indigenous Turkic Siberian people. Khongoraian is very outdated though Khakas is the modern terminology so seems weird they would use it.
Would it be outdated in 1337?
@@DaVoltaireI mean, Eskimos would be a proper term in the 1800s, doesnt mean PDX should call Inuit peoples in Vicky 3 Eskimos
@@miguelpadeiro762 Why are you talking about the Inuit? This is weird.
@@DaVoltaire What he means is that the term "Khongoraian" wasnt a term used by the Khakas to refer to themselves. At no time did the Khakas call themselves Khongoraian. Its why the other guy brought up the Inuit. The relationship between the Inuit never calling themselves "Eskimos" and the Khakas never calling themselves "Khongoraian" is the exact same.
@@quonton3928 That makes sense, thank you.
17:24 *Pahari kingdoms*
Pahari means mountain people, but it is also the name of the language they spoke, and the name of the ethinc group that lived along the himalayan mountain range. Nepali is just a citizenship for people from the country of nepal.
I can't wait to know how Japan gameplay is like since they said that the daimyos are building based nations
I assume the point is that you can unify Japan, but the clans persist in the buildings and more or less have to be integrated as local nobility. If Japan faces another Sengoku Jidai, they can rise up more naturally than just jury-rigging some event (problem with EU4 engine is that the daimyo clan cores can expire.)
It’s going to be like imperator you need people to govern lands and they might be not of your clan
Uighurs were not forcibly converted to islam by the chagatai, islamisation was a slow process that began with the conversion of the kara-khanid turks (circe tenth century) who were ruling over the uighurs prior to the mongols. (Although chagatai nobles embracing islam certainly also contributed significantly)
Uighurs would not completely convert to islam until the 17th century (long after the chagatai) so here we should have a mixture of muslim and buddhist uighurs.
this is typical of him to say
@@orangeviperred what do you mean? I mostly only watch his eu5 update videos. Don't think he's said this kinda thing before in those.
@@gamuhnerdu4759 in general when it comes to Islam, he seems to be more harsh and very quick to say negative things while overexaggerating negative events relating to Islam.
Good @@danialhalal
He is an atheist Romanian living in Japan.
Agreed with PDX, we know this is the dark times.
At least PDX is trying to explain what it actually happens in Steppe nomads.
6:19 Yeap, we are forced to. PDX creates games of power.
But PDX also creates happiness for players, because instead of conquering the world, conquer your ego.
8:36 Idk but the development of Hordes could be calculated differently as in the form of horses of cattle, maybe?
Why saray and astrakan are not developed city's ? these two city are base of culture's and was a capital city's for there region.
Why there is no connected corridor in 2:00? Because Syr-Daria river does not flow on, just ends in Aral Sea in the middle of desert. Unihnabited even today.
The east Hungarians were mongolized, and adopted New culture and language, but they kept the names of their tribes and exists until today. Hungarians from panonia tried to contact their lost brothers and successed just before the mongol invasion. The entire story is very interesting but a little bit sad 😢
Why is Xinjiang so underdeveloped?
No way anything on the Silk Road could be as undeveloped as Siberia
Trade was majority by sea at this pint
@@lolasdm6959Not really, it was still along silk road for quite sometime
@@Zartzurt-b5x nope, trade by sea was already larger than on land by the Han dynasty, by Yuan it was overwhelmingly by sea
@@lolasdm6959 Its not about just han and yuan tho, from tibet to mongolia to delhi people used silk road. Even if yuan used sea routes primarily to india there was still other places to trade
@@Zartzurt-b5x No, it was cheaper to transport goods to Delhi by sea. Boats go by wind, animals and humans eat food to walk on land. Boats also faster than walking and can carry more things than camels and horses.
Long story short, in Caucasus people spread so sparse and disconnected. Terrain is so hard to pass that two close villages can have completely different languages. It is the reason why a lot of empires failed to hold Caucasus
2:00 This is big a river, which is surrounded by uninhabittable steppes and deserts, so thats why, if I remember right this river called Syrdaria or smth like that
> This is not historical
Well yeah, it's a Paradox game. Remember CK3 making homosexuality NOT A CRIME for Christians?
It is a crime, though...? Being sodomite is criminal for catholics and most other christian religions
The passes to the Aral sea are the rivers, that's why they end in the sea.
17:27 There were many Nepali kingdoms than that, In reality there would have been 46 kingdoms, So basically the asian version of HRE.
18:54 it's a Ferghana valley, a most developed area of central asia in that time period. two western spots are Samarkand and Bukhara(later developed by Temur Lang), eastern are Tashkent, Ferghana and Kokand, afair.
I think that corridor in the start of the video that ends in the sea is there so troops can walk over the ice in the winter to the other side
There is (or at least was) a tribe of people calling themeselves the "madzsars" or something like that in the south of the Urals called Bashkortostan, where Julian (hungarian monk travelling east to find the ancient homeland of the hungarians) could speak to the locals using his own hungarian knowledge, but that was in the 13th century (he returned soon to warn king Béla IV. about the mongols) and everything else is theoretical. I think the 'Hongorians' are Paradox's best try at guessing what happened to these people
Google khongoraians
Nah, Magna Hungaria was nowhere near modern Khakassia, the name "Hongoraian" is actually a reference to an old name applied to the Turkic Khakas, Khongorai
Finally you can build ships on the Caspian Sea.
Great video as always!!!
22:20 what about Vajrayana? Also they are talking about dividing the Shia muslims into different sects.
Although there in EUIV Vajrayana is essentially a divergence from Mahayana, with most of the core tenets left unchanged. So it makes sense not to consider them separate, otherwise they would have to add other schools of Mahayana (especially Chan) to remain coherent.
I think they clearly gave the M&T guys a bit too much leeway when making Central Asia. Mountain ranges are one thing but chokepoints on the open steppe? Come on.
It's all well and good to say that those places were never really inhabited or colonized during the timeframe of the game, but that many corridors is just bonkers and ahistorical. Armies absolutely could and did pass through those regions to attack those that lived on the other side (cough, Genghis Khan wrecking Kwaresmia cough) without needing to take some unignorable strongpoint. So no, that region has to change to not allow easy bottlenecking, since that is neither balanced nor historical.
yeah just add tons of attrition, it should do the trick
Machine and Tea?
There are chokepoints in the open desert steppes for the same reasons there are chokepoints in the Sahara.
There is nothing there, it's a desert.
I was under the impression that the 'wasteland' areas in EU5 are uninhabitable not impassable. Armies can travel through, they just get whacked with a bunch of attrition for crossing a desert / mountain range
@@cammyshill3099 And for the Sahara or Arabia, that's perfectly fine and I have zero problem with it. For central asia though, there's plenty of historical accounts of armies passing through some "unpassable/lifeless" piece of desert and appearing out of nowhere without taking massive attrition, because the deserts in question aren't large or comprised of sanddunes enough to really restrict military movements if done by a competent cavalry force, even if off course they are large enough to make settling those areas impossible by pre-industrial means.
Impassable terrain areas in the Turkestan region is weird because Turkic hordes regularly raided Sassanid and later Islamic states there, and when things got too heated just retreated back into the desserts or into the vast steppes
They should improve map borders, so that they can support both medieval and modern borders, like how it is in eu4 extended timeline mode, i really hate it when i cannot recreate some historical borders...
I wonder if there will be a passing point across the Aral sea to each side of the corridors. Basically a strait crossing that we have currently in EU4. and its possible due to the size of the map you do not see said crossing but could potentially be there if zoomed in? Would make for even more interesting strategic holdings and annoyance when attempting to invade the Kazakh lands of Golden Horde
Thinking about the culture map I can definitely see overhaul potential with Nogai overlapping into Crimean lands both in the north caucasus and odessa areas. The borders on Crimea itself should also be more fizzled-out albeit I don't know off hand while writing this what the number has to be for something to be shown graphically in stripes.
I have to agree with how Paradox treats impassable terrain.
I lived in an area that is considered impassable for EU5 (Not on this Tinto Maps). A little mountain range which tops at 2000m. It isnt a wasteland, lots of people have lived and worked there for centuries, but I agree that it is impassable since armies have only traversed it since 1750's or so and only successfully in campaign by Napoleon and WW2 era forces.
That is I agree with pdx tinto as long as it is balanced so that area's pops and production is acounted in nearby locations instead.
The Hongoraian People are probably old hungarians who was left behind after the frist migration. Before the mongol invasion reached Europe a hungarian monk (Julianus) traveled to the region and made contact with them. He also learned about the mongol threat and rushed home to tell the king. However Julianus made a 2nd journey to the region after the mongols conqured it and reported non of the old hungarians was found there. This is weird there.
Magna Hungaria was more to the European side of the Urals, not all the way northwest of Mongolia, in fact Hungarians were never even there
And apparently "Hongoraian" actually refers to Khongorai, an old name applied to the Turkic Khakas
I honestly hope PDX does Silesia level revision on these regions, especially with things like missing Moldavia or millions of people being converted within 20 years (While yes it would probably work on smaller scale with convert or die method, but I doubt everyone who would convert would truly convert, which might be an interesting function of people "converting"?) aswell as smaller more cosmetic changes like Bashkortostani people, which I know for a fact as I know a person with Bashkir grandparents they wouldn't call themself "Bashkortostani" but "Bashkir people", not to mention suffix -stan is just "land of" or "Hongorians" which personally based on some research should be called either Khakas, or Khongorai people. One small nitpick I have is as you said it's not confirmed whether Chagatai Khan truly converted to nestorianism being specified as a fact by Roger. Overall I love your view and commentary on it as it always gives me something new to learn about. And yes, Urals being considered "hills" is just wrong in all aspects and shouldn't of been this way from the start.
While I agree that hills might be an unsuitable term for the topography of the urals it is an comparable classification to what they had in the germany DD. Urals have a median height of 1000-1300 meters with the surounding area being about ~200m above zero. The various "Mittelgebirge" in central and south germany, aswell as the mountains surrounding czechia, were also classified as hills, while being IMO not so far off of the urals in the height category. Maybe a Renaming of the category or an additional one would be the best to clear this up
@@mar_castor5021 perhaps Foothills should be a different category than "hills"?
As much as i would like diverse cultures in locations it's probably gonna be a massive drag on performence due to pop fragmentation like in vic3.
16:15
Yuan were not red , the Ming were initially before they adopt the imperial Yellow
Yuan's flag was blue with a white mongol symbol or Red
so their main colors is blue with minor white and red
Ming were the ones going full Red when they were part of the Red turbans.
for the game color the Yuan should be either blue or Yellow since the Yuan got quickly an identity crisis and became more chinese than mongol
I think the desert impassible terrain should overtime with tech advancements become provinces if you make them provinces.
I'm astonished by the low development of the silk road - Khawarzm, Bukhara, Samarkand, Taraz, Merv, Kashgar, Farap, Tirmiz, Balkh etc...
nice bro
I love you Ludi!!!
17:00 Yuan is red in EU4
2:03 those are rivers. Even today these wastelands are uninhabited.
truly diversity is the strength of the hordes
"Wait, what are you doing, Step Horde?"
Actually official history doesnt offer anymore leads about origins of Hungarians, so it could be anywhere in central Asia. Much more is known after 370. and joint efforts with the Slavic Goth tribes and attack on the Roman empire and final settlement around Pannonia basin... So since no exact location, it could be what devs suggest :)
You know what the game needs
Locations that are half wasteland
They cant be colonised, theyll always be owned by nobody (maybe a tag can own it if they own all real provinces in contact with it).
But it is traversable by armies
Theres so many places like that which were impossible to inhabit, but have people pass through them
I do Yuan as green in my maps. The red turban rebellion overthrew them so I don't think it makes sense to have them be the same color
Interestingly, while the Urals are geographically mountains, I’ve met a handful of people in academia (all either Russians or experts on Russia) who like to diminish them, so this isn’t JUST a Paradox being weird thing.
15:35 Ibn taymiyyah's description of the early "converts" of Tatars(Mongols) wouldn't be the case for the later ones; if the Tatars(Mongols) were like this, I think Ibn taymiyyah would praise the,m..
So, the definition of a hill vs. a mountain in absolute terms compared to EU gameplay terms is obviously different. You have to consider "is it possible to build fortifications on the very peaks of this province" and for the Urals the answer is most definitely no, they would have to build any building for that matter on a much more gradually inclining hill as the mountains themselves were not scaleable. Unlike provinces like Como in Europe which is a valley where you simply can not go around it and the location of the fort itself would be hostile
In general, such a map of Tatar Yoke still wrong. Muscovy collected taxes only from northern principalities. Galicia-Volhynia, Kyiv, Chernihiv, and probably Smolensk were kinda direct vassals
I really hope the culture system from 4 is heavily changed, I don't really like how it worked.
Maybe some Culture Merging and Diverging, and just being able to pop convert isn't a thing.
Hongorai is the kyrgyzs (Kyrgyzstan)and altay people(Altay Republic)
The game gets dumber and dumber. Galician culture, Volhynian culture, now other random names that derive from names of the states they mostly made up as well.
11:20 The Iranians in central Asia were pretty much wiped out by the Mongols by that time.
The Caucas should have more cultures, they didn't include everyone
Chagatai are dwarves from Anbennar
-"I saw Özbeg Khan with my own eyes and he was not made of gold!" Author unknown
So PDX claim that dev on the dev map mode is a combination of infrastructure and population, yet Chagatai is basically all black dev while having double the pop of the GH which has not only more land, but also way more areas with higher dev? Something doesn't sound quite right.
1:52 It's the Syr Darya river I assume
What are you doing Steppe map?
All I know is I am going to need a super computer to run this game with all these provinces come the mid game.
Also I'm shocked about Chagatai's population. 14 Million!?!? Twice that of the much larger Golden Horde, and from the nation centered around the area that was beyond annihilated by Genghis a century ago? I mean, I'll take their word for it since I don't know anything about this region, but wow that's surprising. I guess it somewhat explains why the armies both they and later Timur invaded india and persia with were so massive, but still, damn.
The areas under the Chagatai were mostly under Kipchak/Cuman or Khwarezmid domination before the Mongols, with lots of developed cities along the Silk Road. Although the Mongols ravaged Khwarezmian cities like Urgentch, the rest of the land was spared, while the Volga Bulgars or the Kievan Rus' lands under the Golden Horde were almost completely exterminated (with civil wars/famines/infighting among Rus successor states for a long time...)
I guess 90% of that is in Transoxiana
You missed a chance to call him "little timmy".
Too much wasteland and corridors. The idea is good, but they are definitely overdoing it. Especially if the gameplay has to last until 1836.
any ideas about the release date
Where is the yuan video?
Oh steppe Ludi
Hongoraians refers to khongorai, which was a country ruled by the khakas and yenisei kyrgyz
I have already written an identical message on the forum, but I want to leave a comment here. I have been waiting for a map of central Asia for a long time, as I am an Uzbek myself and live in Uzbekistan. I am extremely disappointed. Considering the tendency of Paradox to add a variety of cultures, adding one Khorezmian culture was a big mistake. Transoxiana (Maverannahr) was inhabited by 92 so-called Uzbek tribes (such as Tamerlane's tribe, the Barlas), and the sedentary inhabitants of major cities such as Samarkand and Bukhara were Tajiks. Even now, a large number of people in these cities consider Tajik as their native or second language of communication.
Another point is the presence of Fergana location as a map. The city of Fergana was founded by the Russians in the 19th century, and the name Fergana at that time referred only to the valley - Fergana Valley.
The modern city of Almaty was also founded by the Russians in a later era, and at that time existed only as a small settlement.
Well, is it arctic climate if it's not because of the pole? Would a very cold climate at the southern hemisphere be arctic as well? Will we find himalayan polar bears at Himalaya? C'mon Paradox!
"hongorai" refers to the turkic Khakas people
11:40 Mountains mostly.
Yep that will do
Do a review about Persia and the Caucasus
Tibet should be Vajrayana/Tantric and not Mahayana, while the Tarim Basin was Mahayana, and also I dont get why the Tarim has so many Kohrazmians, by the 1300s the majority of people should be Uyghur/Turkic, and basically no remnants of Tocharians and other Iranians were in so big position, maybe in the Kashgar gate area there should be that amount of Kohrazmians, but definitely not in the rest of the Basin. And the corridor that goes from the east to the Aral Sea is the Oxus River, today called Amu Daria.
"Yerle Kalık" Sibirya Tatarlarıymış kendilerine öyle diyorlarmış Türkçe bile bulamadım ama ingilizce var
While Hongorianians are not part of the Magyar (ugric) culture group Nyenyets, Udmurt, Mansi, Mari and Khanty actually are. Wonder if culture groups will be a thing cause it makes very little sense for finno-ugric people to have bonuses for people living thousands of kms away from each other. We literally only have a few words and some basic grammar in common. We are farther away than German is to English.
Omg the Caspian is navigable
I heavily doubt a last gen i9´s gonna run this game smoothly after like 50 years. Hope paradox doesn’t mess this game up. We don’t need eu5 to run as slow as millenium dawn on hoi4.
Ludi, you associate Yuan with red cause it's red in Ante Bellum
Qocho and its former lands, basically what is today northern Xinjiang should be represented by 3 documented religions at this point in time. Buddhism should be the primarily religion, Nestorianism and Islam ought to be minority religions. Nestorian Christians in the Golden Horde that Ludi talks about are basically all from Qocho. They were brought to the West by Mongols to serve as missionaries, clerks, secretaries, administrators for the Mongol ruling elites there. What is today southern Xinjiang should be represented by Islam as main and Nestorianism as secondary religion.
What are you doing Step-Maps, i'm your Step-Land 🥵
sailing on the aral sea confirmed?
edit* dm nvm, aral sea has no locations
I am a Circassian from the Caucasus and I can say that there are even more different cultures and peoples here, much more 😂
and another point is that Khabze is not a religion for us Circassians (Adyghe, as we call ourselves). Khabze is the norms and rules of behavior of every Adyghe in society.
i can feel the lag
I ❤ u Lubi
I❤Ludi too
I don't know a lot about Eastern European history. Are the eastern Slav cultures historical? It's weird not to see a "Russian" culture. Was medieval Russia truly so heterogeneous?
Russia is not something special, look at Poland, France, Germany and Spain
Cant wait to play eu5 for 100-150 years each campaign and quit because my pc cant handle the computing.