Reminder: I am being serious about the question in the video. Good to speculate on the idea of the debate for sure, but I still do want a direct answer about the specific question. Like actually hand hold me through the respond for the what, how, and why.
I thought for a few seconds and I believe that the question is kinda rhetorical in some ways. By being a conversative, one must keep things the way they are and resist change. Since the only way to improve something is to change it, the result is that any good idea conservatives have is keep by the progressives and any idea that is bad or can be improve on is changed. The only thing Conservatives will inherently do better is when a idea backs fire for some reason, that is turns out to be worse. Off course, you can argue about is the right (where nothing is left) of the political spectrum, and that they can change policies. That makes thing even crazier as any new idea they may have how has prove to be good would be fairly quick implemented by the progressives, compare to the speed they would adapt, if at all, any idea by the progressives. As such... one would have to consider history instead of just "what conservatives do better that we did not already implemented" Still given their more stiff approach to new ideas and shift in culture, is not gonna be much. The last argument may be their tendency to segregation, however that has some serious drawbacks. while keeping Muslins, Jews and Christian separated maybe the fastest way to ensure a "blood bath" does not occur, it also does not solve their intolerance one to another. I guess you cannot be a conversative and contribute to improvement, as change is paramount to improvement, meaning the contribution they have is just keeping things the way they are avoiding unforeseen consequences/results. As such, they do not contribute to any improvement and that makes the whole question kinda rhetorical. How they can contribute if they contribution is to bring old solutions when newer and possible better ones are being explored?
The worst part is people who have a very incorrect, and derogatory perception of conservatives. Conservatives aren't racist, they don't oppose inclusiveness, or any of those other unfair smears. Conservatives contribute exactly the same things to the fandom as liberals. They contribute art, money, and fellowship. The cruel and prejudiced political activists who want to force the furry fandom to be an echo chamber of strictly pro LGBTQIA+ BLM ACAB ect ect... will only harm the fandom by creating an echo chamber and normalizing cancel culture, callout posts, and the toxic use of mobs and pitchforks to remove people they hate. It will mean that everyone has to constantly be afraid of offending the wrong person lest anything they say be taken out of context, twisted, and used to inspire harassment campaigns. Yes, there are plenty of derogatory stereotypes for liberals. Before the 2016 election of Trump, conservatives fit in very well with the fandom. (as long as you don't generalize all the conservatives to basically be furry raiders). However now, conservatives have to hide deep in the closet. The ones who are brave enough to be open about their values are bullied so harshly that they double down and are pushed into extremism and become hateful of those who bully them. Even very kind gentlemen without a bad bone in their body, like 2Gryphon, have been slandered, harassed, and ostracized for literally no reason other than they upset a political fanatic and cruel zealot who intentionally manipulated their way onto the Anthrocon staff purely so they can wield their power to delete people they disagree with. If we want a healthy, inclusive, and civil fandom, we need conservatives. We need to stop being so stupidly political and cruel.
@@TheJaguarthChannel I would highly recommend watching my other video "how to come up with ideas" to show why your first paragraph is weirdly framed. ( ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html ) Skip to chapter "why good/ok/bad ideas" if you're short on time. People contribute art, money, and fellowship. The /ways/ they do that is the question here. Conservatives have a bias that leads towards really negative outcomes for reasons that can be found in both of these videos. Main: ruclips.net/video/E4CI2vk3ugk/видео.html Extra Citation: ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html . The idea of cancel culture with people going after someone for no reason IS the out of context twisted idea that misses why people voice their opposition to conservatism Liberals aren't the best either for sure. Before 2016 the fandom was more bigoted. Sorry to be blunt but its true. Not to say eveything is magically good now, but 15 years of perspective plus listening to the history of the fandom, it's very obvious how things have changed. The furry fandom has always been a much better place than normal society, but it is a SUBculture which takes cues from the average culture. People were still being bullied then, it was just different groups. 2Gryphon is a bully, I've been live to his shows, he /can/ be funny but his humor does punch down a lot. You can have very potent and blunt beliefs without being pushed into obscurity though. Given you watched a video where I am very vocal and still am around after all these years haha Please watch my other videos, I'm still working on subjects like this but I promise you. We don't need conservative ideology in the fandom. We need solutions to ensure everyone has a good time and that requires deeper thought then staying with the status quo *edit: I'm gonna semi-retract that I've seen 2gryphon live. I'm fairly certain he performed at MCFC but honestly that may have been some other notable members in the fandom. My age is showing a bit I guess haha
Me, any furry contributes to the fandom regardless of politics. I am not dodging, actually; I just feel that focusing on political views o furries are barely different from focusing on the genders and races o furries. The furry fandom really is a melting pot of sorts.
@@MarkyVigoroth The focus happens because PoC/Women/Transpeople/etc are living their lives then a rando makes a big deal out of it, ruining the mosaic. To repair it you require politics to mend the cooperation between people. We have more control of local issues (aka community issues), but many of those issues are downstream of our main culture (that is why we're a SUBculture). You don't need to focus on gender or race, but you are required to acknowledge the history for why gender/race exists as a concept in the first place. I highly recommend knowing better for seeing how the past deeply affects the present. Even if you're not American, a lot of the furry fandom is so it's good to know a bit about ruclips.net/video/iihVxjJjY9Q/видео.html
@@chungusgaming1813 No the difference is that sense public restrooms are open to the public you get a lot of people coming in and out so one of the best ways at the moment to reduce the chances of someone being assaulted or something related happening is to separate the restrooms by sex. Yes there are "family" restrooms but it's simply not practical and also in many cases unnecessary. with private restrooms it's literally just you and maybe a few other people.
@@gorenoisebulldozer140 Well, most ch1ld r4p3 is done by the child's close peoppe, such as family, so your logic falls short. Same iirc is the usual thing with other s3xual ass4aults. As for toilets separation - nope, it doesn't solve the problem, because... you can just walk in. Plus, people of the same sex r4p3 each too, even if they are not gay. If one wanted actual safety, rather than an *illusion* of safety, they would advocate for single-stall bathrooms to be the norm from now on. overall though, gender neutral bathrooms aren't proven to be much dangerous and also help with things like trans people being at greater r1sk of s3xual ass4ult than cis people (which is true for minorities overall, cause less protection given by society)
"Conservative" here to offer a counter point to your video. Let's start first bathrooms issue, saying that "Unsecured doors don't stop criminals from sexually assaulting" and "It makes more bathrooms available, faster for people with full bladders" Both of these arguments are a stretch. Segregating men and women bathrooms doesn't eliminate the risk of sexual assault, but it does mitigate it to a great extent. There's a reason that we don't have mixed barracks at military bases, we have a "boy scouts" and a "girl scouts", and we have female counselors dealing with female campers and not males. Obviously, you're not going to stop sexual assaults from taking place if someone really wants to victimize someone. But I feel like mitigating that as much as possible is a win. As for the "full bladder" argument, people need to have the wherewithal to think "Hey, the dealer's den is a 10 minute walk from here. (The bathroom). I feel like I should go ahead and use the restroom BEFORE I get to far away.". If you wait to use the restroom until you have "a full bladder" and you can't hold it for another "2 minutes" before you pee yourself? That sounds like a you problem, you should know your body better and know the warnings before you approach the point of no return. As for the Pup hood/kink gear debate you're gas lighting. Fursuits are a physical representation of the funny talking animals that our imaginations have conjured so that we can step into the role of our Fursonnas. It's no different from an anime cosplay or to a lesser extent, a Halloween costume. Fursuits by their nature are innocent and cute. Pup hoods have been and always will be considered fetish or kink gear, similar to the Fursuit’s more lewd sister, the murrsuit. Pup hoods and murrsuits are made for one thing and one thing only; to wear shortly before or during sex or to satisfy a sexual kink. True, people have fetishes regarding fursuits in general but again, excluding the murrsuits, fursuits are NOT specifically designed to fulfill sexual fantasies. Pup hoods are, and should not be worn in public spaces. As far as the “Free Fur All” debacle goes on, I am one of the vast majority of “conservative furries” (not really conservative. But I'll wear that badge for sake of argument, here) the majority of us disapproved of Free Fur All. It was good as a concept, but AWOO allowed the Furry Raiders to get involved with their panels, and it turns out that “Peacewolf” and “Foxglove” were wholly unsuited for the task. They have their own wiki pages, you can look up why at your will, and for those wanting to know who the furry raiders are, it's a group of knotsee Furs who I think we can all agree do not deserve a space in the fandom. At any rate, the vast majority of us learning this, not only took a step back but ran as fast as we could away from Free Fur All. Attendence tanked, and the con died a deserved death. But you left all that out, making me feel as though you're only looking at numbers on a chart rather than actually delving into why it failed or interviewing anyone associated with the con or it's staff. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's how I feel. As far as the whole ideology based on serfdom thing, that's a very deep rabbit hole that I won't debate with you, here. Or I'll be here all week. I'm certain I'll be skewered in the replies for this, which is fine, I knew what I was in for when I posted this. But remember, all opinions are worth listening to, whether they are judged to be of value later, or not.
I'll answer this in more depth later cause I can already see some critical flaws, but you seemed to have left out things that better the fandom that comes from a conservative ideological bases. Why is that argument missing from your essay?
@PureKoor I just explained the things from my point of view what would make the con better, and those items I listed as potential issues in my mind aren't even from a politically motivated point of view, as I myself am not truly a conservative. For me, these are moral objections more than anything, I feel that gender segregated restrooms and the non inclusive of kink/pup gear would in fact make the con a more comfortable atmosphere for more people. You have to think, no matter your decision you're going to anger one group of people or another. I feel that my ideas would offend the lesser of the many groups attending the con. For me, it's common sense, Koor. Or are you asking the question as to how I would control a con if I personally were running it, which is a question I don't believe I could answer with any satisfaction. I myself don't know the nuances and technicalities of managing and funding something like that, I suppose I could generate a set of rules and regulations I'd like to see implemented, realism of implementation be damned, but that's about all. Is that what you're after?
The disconnect between the left and right of the fandom comes down to the apolitical nature of the media itself. Anthro (or Furry) art, is not limited to any message, and thus you potentially get all different perspectives participating. What conservatives ignore is the origins of our fandom. It was built by queer people, people who did not conform to norms, and were not approved of by the culture of the time, nor even the culture of today for the most part. From my perspective, conservative furs do nothing but judge those in the fandom they dislike. If they are chaste (or prudish), or straight, or uninterested in trans issues, they have loudly protested with silly buzzwords, "woke", "too political", "marxist", "leftist" and so on. There's a bottom line for our fandom and it's this "We are going to support the expression of people's identities, whether through art, or signs, or clothes, etc. Those who cannot tolerate that don't belong here". We have no time to listen to the protests of the people who wished the year was 1954, and are ignorant to what it was actually like for people then. When it comes specifically to conventions, Free Fur All is a great point of study. It drew extremists, and predators that were rightfully kicked out of our conventions. It's second year failed to even attract artists to decorate the event, they resorted to using AI. Those who attended were simply masking their bigotry, trying to play off the fact that this whole event was political. An attempt at a big party of puny bigots who couldn't stand being the minority voice at our conventions anymore, all while pretending it was about furry. Our fandom wasn't built for them, yet they selfishly think it's owed to them. My message, you want to make art of anthros and be an annoying conservative? Make your own events, call it Anthro, i don't care but you can't have our fandom.
I will say from a conservative view point this "furry" convention to me is like those who dress for comcon. Yeah I'm not into the lgbtq+ but this space is for everyone and leave the unlawful things out of the obvious. And there really can't be much to improve on.
Well, I never saw the origin as political leaning, to me it was a bunch of nerd having a common interest and that attracted others. Yes, the freedom of self expression was and is important and paramount to the base of all of it, after all, the founder was very friendly throws people, note that is Ironic how keeping it is a conservative policie (Ah... politics, people like to make it high contrast, but is just like coffee and milk). In any case, I not gonna say they cannot participate in it or even say what they think, after all bad ideas and opinions do exist in both sides (is just that conservatives are "stubborn" so accumulation happens). That they can use the word? well, I cannot stop them without going in some attrition that is of little help, better to spend energy else where. So I can almost agree with what you are saying, 100% if the point is "They can not own it" given is pretty much for everyone that is not a abuser or intolerant.
The queer origins of the fandom are somewhat overstated. While there have always been queer folks around, and some of them were organizing pioneers, queer furry art was much harder to come by before the 00s amid tons of straight stuff. During the same period, the fandom was also a less politically homogenous place. A lot of early artists were quite politically conservative and very heterosexual (some of whom are still around, though much less prominent). It's just that the queer side won out, institutionally and culturally -- in part because there's more room for identity experimentation (including furry) in queer spaces than in conservative ones, and in part because more space for self-expression has opened up with the huge advances in queer rights over the past ~20 years and the huge swing in public opinion toward queer acceptance.
@@youkofoxy Conservatives are intolerant though, they want to conserve past ideals, which were built on intolerance. If they were right wing, fine. Leftists and right wingers have a lot more in common than they want to think. Conservatives? The political sphere that's built on conserving past ideals that are notorious for intolerance? Yeah, no.
As I have been within the fandom since the 1990's speaking with many members of the community some highlights I can try answer through the conversations I have among people include; Most Conservatives often champion free speech, which can benefit the furry community by ensuring diverse voices and artistic expressions are protected. The conservative emphasis on personal responsibility and self-reliance can encourage furries to take initiative in organizing events, creating content, and fostering community engagement without relying heavily on external support. Small business owners who could benefit from conservative policies that promote entrepreneurship and reduce regulatory burdens so furry creators thrive and sustain their businesses. Emphasize the importance of community and family, which can resonate with furries who view their fandom as an extended family or close-knit community. and much like the left leaning such as myself; Conservative individuals and groups often engage in charitable activities. That's all I can think of off the top of my head for tonight. Brought here as a youtube recommendation, may check out more videos. 👍
Conservatism comes from blood kings. Freedom was a progressive movement (such as the enlightenment) So freedom of speech from a conservatives even within he fandom is still regulated by the hierarchy the conservative believes are eternal and natural. It's freedom of speech until it disagrees with the king, it's personal responsibility and self reliance until it puts them lower into the hierarchy. The family is the mini kingdom of man, community is one where you're a serf or the lord. Such ideas are detrimental to the fandom. Like business is a competition for conservatism. The king is overpowered in the game, because that's the point. Most will lose which sucks for creativity and experimentation Imo, religion tends to be the community/charity medium but a lot of that charity is to convert people not actually building people up to do their own thing. Conventions are already charities that do good work and given the first cons and communities were lead by a non-conservatives. That conservative is not needed here for that. :3 glad you liked the video!
@@PureKoor While conservatism often values tradition and stability, it does not necessarily imply an endorsement of rigid hierarchies or "blood kings." Many conservatives advocate for meritocratic principles, where individuals rise based on talent and effort rather than birthright. The assertion that conservatives support freedom of speech only until it disagrees with a "king" oversimplifies the conservative perspective. The concept of conservatism is broad and can include a belief in decentralized power, where freedom of speech is valued as a means of maintaining a balanced society, rather than solely protecting the interests of those at the top of a hierarchy. The idea is not to suppress dissenting voices but to allow for a diversity of opinions, which is essential for a healthy community, a good perspective of this is to look into the works by Rowan Atkinson on more speech. Describing the family as a "mini kingdom" where one is either a serf or a lord is an overly reductionist view of conservative beliefs about family and community. For many conservatives, the family is seen as a unit that provides support, nurtures individual growth, and fosters values that contribute to societal stability. Similarly, communities are often viewed as spaces where individuals can come together to support each other. The notion that conservatism stifles creativity and experimentation by enforcing rigid hierarchies can be challenged by looking at conservative support for individual responsibility and entrepreneurship. In many cases, conservatives advocate for a free market, which can encourage competition, innovation, and creativity. The idea that "most will lose" oversimplifies the dynamics of competition, where success is often tied to innovation and perseverance rather than predetermined outcomes. I can personally agree while it’s true that some religious charities may have ulterior motives, this does not invalidate the positive impact many religious organizations have on their communities. We could probably bond over the personal opinions I have about the horrendous acts that religion caused on my own family history with the topics of residential schools and the 60's scoop that occurred in Canada. Additionally, the suggestion that conservatives are unnecessary within the fandom because conventions were historically led by non-conservatives ignores the value that diverse perspectives can bring to any community. I wrote this in the hope these counterpoints serve as a foundation for constructive dialogue, encouraging a deeper understanding of the diverse perspectives within the community. By engaging with these ideas thoughtfully and respectfully, we can strengthen our ability to articulate our own views, the intended goal is not to silence dissent but to enrich the conversation.
@@svartursteinn I would point to this video ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html and it's foot note ruclips.net/video/E4CI2vk3ugk/видео.html because you are correct that individuals can have nuanced worldviews. The foundation of conservatism is one that derives from hierarchical ideas. Even the idea of merit matches with that idea of hierarchy that in our current conservations can be seen as freedom by some ideologies but conservatism is not one of them. Families are mini-kingdoms because their version of "nuture" is one of control ruclips.net/video/mNOmFBw1I_M/видео.html . If I can find it I'll send a video about how innovation has been stopped by conservatism and capitalism. I could point you to this one but it's a bit more complicated than what this video says ruclips.net/video/j5v8D-alAKE/видео.html You are framing this discussion in terms of what conservatives think they do not what they actually do. Is a good impact good when much of the power used is for ill? A flat earther also can bring a diverse range of ideas to the table but if those ideas are bad then why can't be we be honest about it? Why is putting out ideas the only measure of success rather than the usefulness of the ideas being expressed? It's nice you took the time to make counter points but for someone like me, this is basic USA rhetoric about conservatives. It's what most grow up listening to. The reality of what conservatism theory is (which yes is historically tied to blood kings) doesn't match what happens in real life and what happens in real life can be flowered up but ultimately is determinantal. Personally if you wanna make an argument for deeper though, I'd rather see an actual laid out plan for what exact idea would be implemented not a vague gesture to one. For example: [Gender neutral bathrooms in hotels with gendered bathrooms can have custom signs placed over them to indicate gender neutral and prior notice on social media can indicate that this change will occur. This will allow better bathroom experiences for all con goers by reducing bathroom distances, reducing stress, and allowing friends to stick together especially if they're a fursuit handler.] Like can you actually think of a proposal that directly that a conservative would give that could actually be followed or critiqued?
I can't think of any sort of way that conservatives could contribute to the fandom, in fact, they might just make it worse. *Some* conservatives like to make the argument that being too liberal means supporting ALL acts like zoo or p3d0, which is not true of course. And yea it's common sense, liberals also don't want dangerous people in the fandom. I'm also curious how any conservative ideology could even work in the fandom, and what instances when it's called for..
They absolutely make it worse. Even being charitable with a good faith conservative, there's just a lot of issues there that conflict with the fandom ya
About Puphoods its very funny cause most of the time the debate goes around oh I don't want kink shown in public and........ Honestly, what's the difference with a fursuit head? both can be used for the very same messy purposes, the problem is that one we like cause its all cute and fluffy and innocent and the other one we don't. That's why the whole debate of hoods yes or no its very silly to me, cause I'm more on the let people be happy side.
While I support your point fully, let's not forget that it's never about the fabric, or how much it covers, but always about the cultural associations to said fabric.
@@hevconsume2504 I made a video about pup hoods discussing the cultural association point because there's an issue there that's been going on for decades before furries even formed ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html
Tbh not all furry's are in it for the nsfw, i.e the asexual side of the fandom. Plus pup hoods tend to also be not fully head covering like fursuits heads do. So it just looks way more like a person with a kink dog mask rather than a furry oc came to life. Also isn't a mursuit what is used for the kink side instead of the fursuit?
@@Ilikefire2793 a fursuit and murrsuit are visually indistinguishable. You know that some people wear the same fursuit heads to cons that they wear during sex, right? I mean, there’s really no way to know for sure if someone’s fursuit is actually a mursuit unless you asked or someone told you directly. Pup hoods can also have different colors, ear or muzzle shapes, accessories or other items that bring a character or roleplay personality to life. What is the difference, again? Besides that one mask is leather and the other’s fur? And why should someone not be allowed to participate based on wearing an inherently SFW item? The mask isnt a sexual item, its the actions and the roleplay that takes place while the mask is on that’s sexual-theres a big difference. Even so, if someone feels more comfortable expressing themselves at a furcon in a pup hood rather than a fursuit head, I genuinely fail to see any issue with that.
@@Ilikefire2793 A murrsuit is just a term for a fursuit used for lewds. They're the same thing and plenty of people wear theirs mutually. The deal is you can CLEAN your gear much like you can clean your clothes. It's more appropriate to like.. have a separate suit for that kinda stuff, just that I know of a lot of folks that don't. Not all pups are in it for NSFW, either. It's literally just a mask. From an outside/normie perspective furries, pet players/pups/etc are all just animal weirdos. :b Puphoods got popular because they're easier to wear and generally less expensive. You can really breathe and properly see in them while a fursuit your vision is limited to about 20 feet in front of you before everything is all blurry/put in a blind spot. I wear both! If I don't wanna be too hot and have more easy access to drinks/talking I'll generally wear the hood. THe fursuit is a bit more of a costume performance and I tend to need a guide/some help.
Ok, actually thought of an answer to your question, being a furry, you don't have to contribute, point of a fandom is appreciating what we are a fan off in this case furry characters, just being a fan is contributing
Consumption is not a contribution. That's just consuming media. It's why liking anthro chars and being a furry are sepeate actions to most folk. So if a conservative is going to go to a convention while bring their ideas by interacting with folk (which is a contribution) what ideas makes the fandom better off?
I suppose their capitalistic prowess could allow them to establish businesses that provide goods in convention dealer's dens. (Or teach other folks how to.) Or their viewpoints could potentially be a good basis for establishing a civil discussion on politics in a panel. I know I'm really stretching here, (go figure a fox balloon would be X3) but that's about the limit of what good I can fathom they'd bring to the fandom. In my opinion, having conservatives (especially modern US conservatives) in the fandom would be a mixed bag where any good they offer is outweighed by conflicting ideals/beliefs. The primary factor here is how polarized current US politics are, and a reluctance, or stubborn refusal, for folks to consider a differing viewpoint. While they can contribute the fandom in the same way as other folks do, their viewpoints differ so drastically from the rest of the fandom that they'll very likely clash and cause discourse wherever they go. The only way they'd be accepted would require them to relax their extreme viewpoints, which would ironically skew them away from being conservative in the first place.
Ya their view points are very very different. I do think a conservatives capitalists prowess comes from their cruelty which is why the hypothetical ancap dealers den director is the best example of that. They don't actually know how to do better at business strategy (we keep having to bail out corportions or watch them burn through stock winnings like musk is doing), they are just willing to throw people under as a stepping stool which from a distance looks like them being king of a random hill. Same for the civil discussion, it's not really civil to ask if PoC are violent by framing it as "crime is rising". It more so just causes people to focus on how bad the statement is rather than looking at why statistically crime has gone way down and the places crime rates go up are very fixable. Such as removing sundown laws
@@PureKoor All good points, and even more reasons people like this would be an awful fit within the fandom. Furries trying to run a business would stick together and help each other out, while a conservative type would likely be cut-throat and ruthless in their business endeavors instead. It's how the billionaire elites do it, after all... /s Even more so with having any form of civil discussion. Your example alone would very likely be contentious to a conservative type, and anyone who'd defend PoC would be "woke" in their eyes. (I'm not even gonna get into how they twisted the meaning of "woke" since then.) Unless folks are willing to use critical thinking and question things, they're only gonna listen to what the news person/ local pastor says and run with it as fact.
@@PureKoorWe Are living in interesting and dividing times, eh? One question about a concept which Is Political within nature and I don't mean to neither spread it, neither dismiss it. Welfare State - specifically Social Democracy. Could you elaborate on it please?
@@yeboxxx_channel_2505 Here's a whole video free stuff ruclips.net/video/LQIxbwfMVlM/видео.html . Here's another video on social democracy ruclips.net/video/TRq3pl17C8M/видео.html . Hope these help
Script and delivery in this video was really smooth nice work Koor! As for the video itself yeah I mean current US conservatives have policies that are very actively anti lgbt and anti furry (same thing). I don’t really know how economic policies could apply to a con other than “free market ideals” just allowing any large corporation that can put forward a lot of sponsorship money to set up in the dealer’s den, which would be bad obviously. And the political ideas either CAN have panels and discussions at a con already or have no place at a furry con ever. I don’t know what’s left that would improve a con
Thank you! There's a LOT that we need to improve cons with. How volunteering works like when there's a storage of volunteers, how to get people to collaborate on stuff even when not volunteering like elevator management, how events give democratic ownership/compensation to people like DJ-ing work or artist alley, ensuring better safety of ALL fandom members, ensuring the con boards are represented of our members, ways to do more good for the charities beyond money, ways to educate furries to have better lives using cons as a more efficient teaching space, and a lot more. There's a LOT to be done that may not be bombastic change, but when those issues are fixed it is felt by how more smoothly everything runs. Progressive policies have solutions. I can't think of what a conservative solution (that would make most furries happy) to any of the issues mentioned that hopefully I made your statement correctly I'm a bit tired LOL
Ya you got it that’s pretty much the boat I’m in. I don’t mean to say cons are perfect but I’m not sure how any conservative(at least US conservatives, not sure about other countries whose conservatives aren’t as crazy far right) politics or policies would make anything better
Hey I’ve met some actually met some really good conservative furs. Now it’s only been one group. But eh. I don’t think the avid political furries (aside from select few like Apollo and that’s probably it) contributed. Anything. Hell what positive do most furries contribute? It’s just a little meh to call out one political spectrum when all this fuckery is going on.
Most furries contribute quite a bit. Most people are lurkers so it's easier to focus on the vocal people. However it is more meaningful when you have a shy furry who approves of neutral bathrooms versus a conservative wanting to "keep the magic" by hiding a PoC is wearing a fursuit. Those small things can really add up
By nature we will have a pattern of motive sooner or later, it comes free with heritage & environment. You're right in some way, left in some way. Left isn't dropping everything or drastic power overtaking, it's just abt taking & making up a new space. It's possible to nuture & form new ideas of social dynamics, and practice it. And be one of the first in example, rather than the blueprint others have left and are moving into (the left). But that by definition is just another new left like many people are actually doing, ppl are trying to make their trails. Otherwise, the mix of moving on and create older trouble is just a recipe for disaster. But I mostly think you don't mean abt these things. Likely you're just the passive person having impressions abt each term & title which will never emcompass the whole theme of these terms in reality. It's the dynamic, not home for imagery stereotypes. You'll move very right when you're attached to a thing too much that you may fail to see how it's not helping some others, but there's some intelligence in feelings of attachment, people just have to practice it better. Left is also harmful when you bulldoze anything with some complicated problem within, and people obviously fail to address problems all the time, although that's not the excuse to not put in effort anymore. Being fluid & compassionate doesn't mean centrist also, it's such a dirty ignorant word in current era. I only take out some part of dynamic to talk, obviously words from few ppl can never capture human dynamics. Oh and, practicing diplomacies & actual loving boundaries are just skill issue, everyone simply have some problem with it,, but for what I'm seeing, often it's left leaning ppl who are putting more energy into it, while right ppl often perform it & being petty abt it.
Such an interesting topic that I definitely needed to do some research on. In answering your question, while I think there should be a good balance between both conservative and progressive ideas, conservatives have benefited the fandom in pushing for a greater acceptance of furries into the mainstream, and by encouraging change for the fandom to become more socially acceptable. Because, as you probably are aware of, there a some very NOT socially acceptable aspects of the fandom that should be eliminated. Great job on the video btw ❤
I think it's worth elaborating on "very NOT socially acceptable aspects of the fandom" as that line of thinking could include things that are largely mundane, only a problem for groups with puritanical beliefs, only an issue because of US-based internet policy, warrant a discussion on psychology and anthropology, OR are an issue that exists at the same rate both in and out of furry spaces.
@TigerNamedJerry It is an interesting topic and I'm glad you liked the video! I do have the same question as skai though. What specific aspects are the not socially acceptable ones? I made a video about puphoods a while back because although it's not acceptable socially, so too were bathing suits...until they were acceptable. (here's the vid ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html ) So does appealing to the majority like conservative ideology wants help? Getting people to understand our norms as safe tends to work out better in the long run
Love your video, thank you SO much for making it! Your point of kids being informed and alert for predators vs. being "innocent" is fantastic. My kid's 6 y.o., and yeah you bet I want him to know how to protect himself.
As a european furry: Oh no, american politics is permiating the fandom discourse again ;) I saw you asking similar questions on twitter/bsky threads, and I don't really disagree with any of your arguments - but aren't you straw-manning a bit here? Like is there a big, vocal conservative movement? I feel that furries by their nature kinda keep conversatives out - or rather are unattractive to conservatives. Ofc there's always a relative spectrum within any group, but isn't the furry fandom overton window so far left, that the conservatives basically don't matter internally? The biggest discourses I see is politicians/conservatives outside the fandom attacking the fandom (and all other percieved lgbt-associated minorities) from the outside.
I feel like this has mostly been an issue in America and nowhere else. At least based on my experience online conservative furries have been a vocal minority within the fandom for quite some time now, and they’ve even managed to organize their own little con since they kept getting banned from regular cons due to their constant harassment. Then again, all of this is basically a reflection of America’s societal and political struggles.
*inserts always has been meme* I'm not straw manning in this video because I'm thinking of arguments for why conservatives ideas are helpful in the furry fandom. Like I said, thinking about that question, it's either status quo keepers or really toxic ideals (primarily from the USA cause I'm from the USA). I'm not saying all conservatives have THOSE specific ideas. I am saying furry conservatives when given the chance to improve a situation... usually don't. So if someone make a policy statement that is derived from conservative ideals and improves cons, then my video still works. My favorite video on this dynamic (again primarily USA oriented) is a main video by Innuendo Studios ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html and their video's citation explanation ruclips.net/video/E4CI2vk3ugk/видео.html . Yes externally a lot of conservative-aligned politicians are denouncing furries. Internally furry conservatives/furry conservative politicians aren't really listened to but they do have their group chats and twitter circles which is where I got my talking points. I'm just not gonna name drop them because the smaller ones don't need the platform and bigger ones are already known haha
@@smellyberner It's def world wide issue, it's just the USA has a large furry presence and a lot of eyes on the country given its empire status. It is good to remember that the USA is a product of the old world and the British empire. The fascism we see in the USA was build along side other fascist states given our jim crow laws inspired some polices enacted in WWII germany. Furry is a subculture which will derive some of its internal politics from the average culture
I'm not a conservative by any means. I support LGB rights, i'm pro choice, i am an atheist, i am open to people who have different world views, faiths, and politics than me. But the furry community since 2016 (trumps election year)...have become so extremely hostile to anyone who isn't an outright socialist genderfluid ACAB personality. I've been called both a nasi and s christo-fascist for posting the most tame centrist takes. There's people actively trying to force the community to ostracize anyone who isn't a lefty. This isn't how it used to be, i was in the fandom since i was a child. My views have not changed very much... the community has. More bullying, more callout posts, a complete normalization of slandering someone as a bigot just to punish them over personal drama and get people to don their torches and pitchforks. It's sad, eating itself from the inside. The more politically extreme and niche the community becomes, the worst it becomes.
As someone who is a conservative, I actually think the fandom is fine for the most part. I really have no problems with people's sexual orientation, religious beliefs, or way of expressing themselves. I also believe that conservatives and progressives being mixed together may be a good for people to share ideas and find common ground rather than resort to bickering. I myself have never stereotyped an entire group of people because of a few that might have given the group a bad image. A great example would be furries themselves as some people have this idea that all furries are zoophiles because of a few people that were associated with the fandom. This is why the fandom appealed to me was because it was so diverse that I felt that even though my ideas may not align with someone else's, they would still be inclusive regardless. I actually do agree that these conservatives are doing a bit much and it would probably help if they didn't act as if their policies magically fixed problems. There are a few things I would like however. One thing I've noticed is that some furries need to be a bit more open to differing ideas. You do not have to agree with me, just hear me out and not despise me because we don't agree. It is very likely that we have more in common than we do different, yet some people in the fandom are just unwilling to listen. One common thing I've noticed is that people resort to insults and assumptions/stereotypes rather than trying to see where the person is coming from. Again, I love the fandom for all that it is. I love the people, art, and the energy and everything in between. I just wish that both sides could come together to focus on the amazing parts of being a furry and stop using the fandom as a way to push an agenda.
I think the important statement to reflect on is the "bit more open to differing ideas". It's difficult for any human being to admit they are wrong, because we are taught from a young age to be self-reliant and that lack of knowledge is considered weakness. However, with regards to socio-political topics I've found progressive arguments tend to be backed by some amount of scientific research and objective study (something outside themselves), where conservatives tend to be focused on anecdotal experience or tradition (self-centered and limited, aka "where the person is coming from"). While I'm sure you meant well by your comment, the "they're pushing an agenda" statement while also avoiding commenting on any specific disagreements is a bit of a stereotype unto itself with the idea that somehow the past didn't have this "agenda pushing". I think it's more likely that people enjoy furry and the more they become involved the more likely they are to run across people and views who don't mirror their own. Viewing it as an agenda or simply as community discussion is a matter of perspective.
In another vein, a large reason why assumptions and stereotypes are used from progressive folk to conservative folk nowadays is because the overwhelming amount of opinions/arguments that are thrown or shared regularly online. The human brain will work to categorize these as that is just what the brain naturally does. So if you are to express an argument that is considered "traditionally" conservative, someone is likely to assume they know the rest of your argument because of the amount of "data" that the brain has collected through experiences online with other conservatives. I think the trick to holding a conversation with someone with differing views is less of "can I explain this in a way that makes sense?" and more of a "how can I phrase this to not be automatically categorized into what would be categorized as conservative diatribe?" I grew up in a conservative family and I made a lot of assumptions after I cut them off and broke away for a long time. It took me a while to break down the assumptions and stereotypes I had made myself about them and to talk to them through it. However it requires modifying one's natural filter that their brain creates to categorize things. Because everyone has this filter, it's the reason confirmation bias exist, as well as the anchoring effect, and much more.
As annoying as it may seem, having a voice to second guess ideas and think of the negatives is rather important. I ain't a conservative but I do appreciate them. They can help with reality checks at times and help highlight the ideal middle ground. In the end, what's more important than anything is to encourage politely voicing concerns, and politely addressing those concerns. we have to remember, we are all wanting what's best, its just that none of us know the entire situation from all sides.
You should look for good ideas, not middle grounds. Diversity of thought is important BUT is not comparable to inputs from anyone. We can find middle ground with the flat earthers, but they're still wrong... We did the middle ground between Slave owners and abolitionists. That got us racial segregation which we see now was bad, because the "ideal middle ground" doesn't mean a good solution, it means what is the most neutral answer to shut people up. Which includes "polite discourse". If you're family is in an emergency, politely asking people to help isn't actually a good thing. There is distress and anger for very valid reasons. You should listen to the point not the delivery. If you want actual discourse that makes you think and get new solutions, like what I did with the bathroom explanation. Listen to academics, researchers, activists, etc. They're the ones who are addressing those problems and you can actually get the pros/cons of issues with the diversity of thought to do actionable solutions for all. The slave owner wanted what was best for their bottom line and family, they didn't actually care about the enslaved people that had their whole lives destroyed. Conservatives do want the best... but you have to ask best for WHAT. It's most certainly not for everyone's well being. I would highly recommend watching this video to understand that point further ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html
@@PureKoor well put. I do agree that one should always go with the best decision, I just find that the best decision is rarely on one side or the other. Its best to listen to everyone though, as all perspectives is needed to find the exact truth. I say this agreeing with mixed bathrooms, Im not a conservative but I have also found myself clashing with more progressive groups as well.
I watched the video and stayed up for 30 minutes thinking and arguing to myself about the question, hah. Yeah ideologically, conservatism, specifically the recent US type, doesn't seem to theoretically add or contribute anything to bettering convention spaces. On the other hand, I don't believe that's the discourse of the video. I mean, the title is not conservatism, It's specifically conservatives themselves that don't add anything to the fandom. This sentiment is seen as well in many of your replies to other people. What bothers me is that, if we continue the line of thought of “conservatives don't add anything to the fandom, they actively worsen it's state”, then it follows that we should get rid of them? Same as it's done with zoos and pdfs? I mean, this conversation revolves around the idea of “contributing” to the fandom. But what's exactly is contribution? You've stated that consuming the media is not enough, that there's a distinction between “furries” and “anthro enjoyers”. (You've mentioned this stuff around your replies, it's okay if you don't recall it) So is contributing volunteering as con staff? Making art in all its forms? Not just commissioning drawings or fursuits? I'm asking a lot of questions because this genuinely intrigues me, sorry if it's overwhelming. Lastly, I believe that, this conversation could have a better influence if its focus is shifted to a more general point of “bad actions made by bad people”. Why? Because the discourse around this seems to be that every conservative is problematic, that no matter how “good faith” they are, there's always going to be irreconcilable differences which will lead people in this fandom to be discriminated against and treated poorly. I mean, we can agree that those bad actions mainly revolve around racism, misogyny, homophobia, and the likes. Which always deserve a vigorous response to fight back. But, I believe these are not problems that arise solely or primarily from conservatives, and I feel that you're painting it in that way. Not every conservative is going to be fascist, nor every progressive is going to be free of prejudice. With this, I mean to point out that these bad actions sadly occur within progressive circles as well. I've seen too many gay guys (who were progressive) display open disgust towards women. That often “Eww women” attitude. Same with queer folk showing disdain towards bisexuals. So, if this issue is more nuanced than “furry conservatives harming the public furry spaces” why display them as the only source of this issue, why not appeal to a broader callout? Though, call names and point fingers of course, I don't mean to downplay the role of conservative thinking in this.
Maybe I was too confrontational on this, sorry if that's the case, don't mean to come off as rude. Really well written video though! Genuinely had me thinking allot, prolly will watch more in the future!
You are correct. We should bar them from the fandom. I explain why in more detail here: ruclips.net/video/saXzXq3lXnM/видео.html People contribute labour to the con staff, which a conservative can do cause like physically you can see it. But their presence in the long term overall is harmful and we'd be better suited to ask the thousands of other furries to volunteer their time. I've met PoC volunteers who don't volunteer anymore because the racist conservative on staff made them feel unsafe. We lose great volunteers and fandom members directly to conservatives even within the fandom ignoring how the overall conservative moment is and will affect the fandom in general. Conservative ideology does product people who do bad actions. From reading history and speaking to the USA conservatives, they are inherently fascist, monarchist, or confederate and none of those are worth our time to pretend that their ideals are equal. They're not. Those people need to become better and more moral human beings. I will make more videos explaining why in the future and will even discuss where leftist and dems fail too. But leftist, in fact my next video is about leftists being dumb haha. For the most part dems can do better. Conservatives never will.
@@PureKoorsounds like an excuse from what I remember seeing and hearing the WHOLE time I was in the fandom... it was about escapism... it only became political recently...
Idk how old you are. I have a decent number of years within the community so I can confidently say, when I joined all those years ago it was still political but people were just much more willing to ignore it unless it was something more directly affecting the majority of the community such as gay rights. It's fine to wanna have a place to relax, but you can't equate "a place to relax" with "an escape from life". You shouldn't be escaping from life, that's a problem in it of itself.
@@PureKoor I too have a decent number of years You seem to just not be listening to what I'm saying So escapism is bad even though the fandom was all about escapism... or maybe you don't know what escapism is... The fandom as a whole was about escapism in the community I never said all the time like your implying. Only in the community. Because of the common knowledge that politics just seems to Bring hatred IE like how the fandom is today
Again, if you're trying to escape life there are more fundamental issues that need to be solved and your escapism shouldn't ignore the problems of others. You are not the only one with problems and ignoring said problems is bad actually. If everyone helps each other, there's no need to escape
The sad thing is, we need both liberal AND conservative POVs. Sometimes you need a conservative pov to say 'things are going well, so let's keep it going,' and sometimes you need a liberal pov to say 'things aren't going too great, maybe we should change things up.' Locking into either pov to the point of never wanting to hear from the other side is where the problems come in, but learning which pov you should approach any given situation with could take you a lifetime to figure out. 😮💨
You really don't. When conservatives said we needed racial segregation, they were just wrong. There were many debates about the issue during those many decades but with hindsight we can just clearly see it's wrong, because back then people knew it was wrong. It's just the racists won out for many complex reasons (watch this vid ruclips.net/video/j4kI2h3iotA/видео.html ). Meaning, for many situations there are ways to logically reason out how good an idea will be in the future, even if we don't have all the known factors. If you find the right solution, you can just implement the solution while still maintaining many different POVs
I do like how you directly antagonized the 'common sense' answer, because that's one that I hear a lot. When you ask conservatives to give specific examples, or directly explain what they mean by a generalization it's very common for them to give a "Well I know it when I see it" or a "It's self-evident" in order to evade the question. It's just like, if literally ANYONE doesn't know, then it's not self-evident. These are just things people say when they know that what they would actually say in answer to the question would sound monstrous and/or stupid so they don't wanna say it. The one that has come up a lot recently is "I'm under attack for my conservative beliefs!" which like, whether or not that's a reasonable objection depends entirely on what those beliefs are. When you say "my beliefs" that implies there is a list of specific beliefs that belong to that subset, and people are hesitant to enumerate that list because they know those beliefs suck and everyone would turn against them if they actually said them aloud.
Boiling down the fandom to a mere fetish purposefully ignores all the deep interesting aspects that makes many become a furry. Aspects conservatives are opposed to such as equality of marriage, integration, and S.T.E.A.M.
I think the standard for what's conservative and what's progressive shifts within each political climate, and while we would typically think of "conservative" meaning a specific thing in the US climate, I think that in the furry fandom it should mean something different because there's entirely different norms to conserve. I would say that "conservative" in a furry sense would be rather liberal, or even leftist by current US standards. That's because your current standard for a furry space and what type of people you can expect at them are considerably more progressive than what you would expect from a non furry space. Progressives would be the folks trying to expand that progressiveness further, obviously, but there are a lot of people who are content with the fandom as it is or might only want otherwise milquetoast conservative ideas, ideas folks like democrats want anyways. So when you look at those furs that are trying to set the bar of a "conservative furry" to a Capital R Republican? Yeah. They don't fit in this fandom. Not by a long shot. And nothing about their ideals specifically could add any value when they're built on trying to tear down what the rest of Furry stands for.
That is true. I do still see the Fandom as a subculture so even if we have a different Overton window, we are ultimately affected by the super culture. An actual conservative furry will form/has formed but to a degree most aren't gonna notice. Maybe the "cons need to be smaller" may spark a recongizeable movement for that but until then, conservatives furries will be the normal conservatives but... furry... which ya have no place here but they're still trying to enter haha
Do CONSERVATIVES do something for the fandom, yes and absolutely and insinuating the opposite is rather degrading. Do conservative IDEALS do something for the fandom? Aside from being opposed to accessible pornography (which you mentioned already in instilled but is still a conservative ideal being put into practice which therefore makes the answer yes) I don't think so, nore does progressive ideas so this whole video seems somewhat needless.
Conservatives are a pretty degradated in both person and ideal ya. Basically everyone is opposed to completely free access to nsfw. /how/ it's restricted is the discussion here. You're being a bit reductive in your grouping here. My video is asking for specifics on what conservatives do, which is what I'd like help with. So your thinking is wrong on multiple fronts lol
@@PureKoor Of your question is what conservatives do then it's redundant, since conservatives are just a group of people that do what anyone else does which makes your notion and you in turn bigoted. And while everyone is opposed to free access to nsfw, it's particularly a conservative ideal. I could ask you the opposite and ask what progressives (or slightly more productively what progressive ideals-) do for the fandom.
@@PureKoorwe're degraded? Yet I am tired of going to cons with dudes peaking in the stalls? And guys openly talking about sex to minors? And wearing fetish gear around minors? Idc about gear and all, but leave the minors out of it!
You're talking about the induvial, can you give me an example about how the politics of a conservative helps? Also for furries is quite the mix! So even if there is less religious arguments, there still are those who are conservative who do make them. Given the USA as a whole is still very religious and furry is merely a SUBculture, it's still a sizable point. furscience.com/research-findings/demographics/1-8-spirituality/
Here in europe we have also some cons who are kind of conservative. One point is the no poodling rule, which is still highly debated by some more older furry circles. i'm kinda over that...
what I wanna know is why do we have politics in the furry fandom why not just enjoy being in it and doing what you love, then again thats me I'm dumb but I'm puzzled about this
Politics always been there. Like, there's a stereotype that furries are white male people. So a LOT of viewers will be surprised when their favorite artist isn't white nor male, which creates really akward or dangerous situations. Those situation come from the recent racial segregation that's still being enforced in places around the usa. Or even where women were barred from having a bank account a few decades ago so men were the marketed to for they had control over money. So a fandom that should be for everyone will have people who default to white men being the $1000s suit owners. The fandom should be enjoyed to the fullest, but we have to remember not everyone has had that opportunity to be ALLOWED to enjoy or participate in it. The politics had always been there, all someone like me is asking is to be more active in it so we actively get that fandom we enjoy for all. A first step would be to progress past the past that's stopped so many from performing their best, such as conservatives wishing for gender segregation which is a political norm, but similar to the racial segregation norm back in the day, that segregation was never ok
Eh? Given how there's a lot of queer, neurodivergent, etc people in the fandom, you can go only so far in apoliticallness before it becomes a political thing of itself - to be fair, you can't really avoid politicis in any gathering of people, as they always have at least a passive presence, but you can pretend it's not there. It's harder to pretend when someone believes "trans people bad" and if you do pretend, then you are effectively supporting that belief by welcoming it. It's the n4z1 bar problem: don't kick out bad people and your bar will become a bar for bad people as bad people are normalized and push out the rest
don't we have unisex toilets anyways? those are practically the same as the gender neutral restroom. unisex is just the traditional name and i bet theres plenty of convention centres with those. the furry fandom is probably 90% progressive anyways, so conservatives will statistically be contributing less to the fandom than progressives.
We have unisex toilets in the same way the north had freed slaves. A lot of laws, norms, and building designs makes it to where separate bathrooms are what you will expect to find while unisex bathrooms are a nicety. We don't need to desegregate some bathrooms at some cons, we need to desegregate ALL bathrooms which luckily furries are one group helping to make a reality. Personally I think conservatives are net negative but from the conservatives in this comment section, they can't even say what they're contributing lol
I’m 3 years into the fandom and my experience has been, meh 🤷🏽♂️.The LGBTQ community is non of my issue other than it’s enforcing its beliefs, it feels like a regulation for everyone to follow. From the three cons I have been to, I haven’t seen much pup gear, etc. other than a man in a diaper. But that’s all.
for starters you could actually talk to conservative furries instead of painting a picture of what their ideologies and beliefs firsthand instead of going off your established ideas about them you'd be surprised how much people can land in a grey area. Not everything is black and white and I'm tired of seeing people both on the left and right being portrayed as nothing less of what the other already thinks.
I have talked to them and many others. Not sure why you're assuming people don't really to each other. Taking too them makes me Sure I don't want conservatives in the Fandom lol
As a person who has been with conservative furries for 10 years. They are all awful antisocial drama-obsessed people who do nothing but cry about "degeneracy" (while engaging in it themselves) as they watch cringe compilations. It's really telling that no conservative here states that they want to improve or be better. They instead stubbornly stick to their ignorant worldview since they think they're superior to everyone.
i- wouldnt call it fascism fascism is built of ideas such as racism, ableism and homophobia people cant stop being black. people cant suddenly become entirely able. people cant stop being gay (no matter how much conversion therapy theyre put through) thing is- people can change ideologies. people DO change ideologies. racism only a century ago was not only normal, but expected. now, id say most people agree that its bad.
Conservatives have never once mistreated me. I've run out of fingers to count on when it comes to how many liberals have mistreated me. I'm black and gay. I'm a registered unaffiliated and people such have you, with videos such as these, have pushed me to take a great liking of the 'other' side, the side I view as the sane party. I'll straight up tell you, alienating people, in this particular case, furries, will never work in your favor, as you're seeing in real time. Thank you for showing me right from wrong. I go against the grain and I'm not afraid to do so. Win or loose, I'm proud to vote Trump for 2024.
Don't know how you really feel that way, but my conservatives and ignorant "liberals" close ones all have had me noticed how I'm completely unseen at the end of the day. Dismiss all fracturing things and problems just to keep the "space" unconfronting is not at all the gestures of compassions. Meanwhile being with my passionate friends, we could refuse to look at each other some day and totally make it up or have a deal in the next. Dumbasses will be dumbasses no matter the other stance they have. You're just thinking grass is green on another side & not try to find better people, better communication. That, and giving in to toxic positivity, surface politeness can only slip slowly into apathy, enabling, compliance in the face of total wrong treatment (to put it lightly).
There's already politics in there such as the bathrooms. Given conservative ideology likes hierarchies, you can't really leave out how people are organized for cons
@@MajatekYTSo where are you supposed to go or do for fun when one doesn't want to participate in politics? Because not everyone is politically radicalized and allows politics to drive everything they do.
I think the important thing to remember is that conservative furries add their own unique presence to our community. This happens regardless of political/social affiliation. But if you mean "what does the philosophy of conservatism bring to the furry community?" then I agree: very little. Mind you, you used to be able to find Republicans who agreed with LGBTQIA rights (thinking back to Barry Goldwater's run for the US Presidency in 1964). He was a bit scary in terms of libertarian, unfettered capitalism but he also walked the walk as regards queer folk and their ability to serve in the military. I believe he coined the phrase, "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight." I believe Arnold Schwarzenegger also favored full LGBTQIA equity in society while being a conservative. I may be mis-remembering though. Anyway, TL;DR: the political philosophy and stance of social conservatism doesn't add anything to the community ... it only tends to subtract by opposing new ideas and practices that reflect change over time and the ability to accommodate folks who want to join us all in this strange, furry fandom.
I would argue that unique presence is bad the moment relationships become deeper than surface level. But yes, I do mean like practical policies that fit within conservative platforms, practical usage, or philosophy as a group. Induvial can have better beliefs than the group, but groups form because a majority will agree and propagate those agreed ideas. Can even today you can find many republicans that are tolerant of LGBT+ folk but just want to hide them which is just second class citizenship aka doing better than the full bigot but still very much a bigot . I would not take outliers as meaning the group represents that idea.
i get it, politics run the world, but what's the point of bringing politics into a hobby. Please don't split a mere hobby into like how politics is. You're either a friend and think like me or think anything else then you agree with these and are pure evil kinda mood. If you want to hear the truth, both sides are needed everywhere, in a balance, but none are needed in this fandom. And there shouldn't be such things as conservative and progressive con experience. No ideology would do good in this fandom unless you do not wish the fandom to be what it proudly calls itself as. We should avoid praising and hating on ideologies inside the furry fandom unless they're unbiasedly bad
It's already been political, it's really a matter of how much you engage actively in it or who will do it for you. The first furry cons were very politically charged by just accepting lgbt+ folk. It's normalized now because people put in the work for it to be so. Thus, you need good ideas not both sides. Sometimes it really is a 2+2=4 situation. Slave owners and abolitionists got a middle ground via racial segregation and second class citizenship for non-white people, which we today see as bad because although there were two sides, abolitionists had the correct answer. You could say that's obvious but this country had a war because it WASN'T obvious to everyone. The 'unbiasedly bad" ideologies of today were the debated normal opinions you had to be civil about. We don't need cons to be extreme political experiences, but you do need to be aware of what's happening and why to enact change to make people happy and well off
Furries tend to get more views for doing the "uwu nya here's a furry meme compilation" thing. Changing thought so we get better fandom happenings is the main goal here, views are a bonus!
You miss a few points in your discussion, but I agree with one thing, a furry convention that is political is just dumb, no matter which political side it's on. IF there is going to be any difference of how a political con is run, I'd argue it's less about what the rules are, and more about how rules would be enforced. Because really, there is basically no run differences between a left or right furry cons. Which is dumb because rule enforcement can be decided without association to any political party. The only political view that would change any rule would be the bathrooms. BUT sometimes that's not even a political choice, when I went to a Yugioh tournament (ironically held at the same convention as MFF) the bathrooms were merged. When you have three thousand people, and roughly 90% of them are guys, it makes no sense to have separate bathrooms when one will be used 90% more than the other. When it comes to topics like pup hoods, according to my own views from the rancid pool that is Twitter, I've only seen arguments for banning pup hoods from people that are leftwing. Literally 100% rate from people that identify or agree with progressive topics. Also these people, according to their questionably accurate Twitter profiles, are almost always under 21. From my own experience I actually never seen a single person that associates with conservative views be against pup hoods. To my experience puphoods at cons are less a political thing; rather stemming from dumb kids online trying to pathetically portray themselves as protecting the innocent righteous heroes. Seriously, I've seen more questionably aged 'adults' on Twitter trying to protect kids more than anyone that is 30+ that might actually have growing kids. In my opinion conventions like this is able to become a thought, let alone become a real thing, is because of intolerance. Furries don't feel safe sharing their beliefs, politics, economics, religion, etc. I'd argue, while the amount of intolerant furries is very low, but the amount of people they affect is high. I've personally seen someone Tweet out "If you are friends with this person, you are not friends with me. I am not going to be nice to anyone that treats that other person nice." The amount of people shockingly okay with it, and no one bashing such mentality, was terrifying. I've been called a "traitor to gay people" saying I do not like the look of the LBGTQIA+ flag. Having an opinion, to some people, is a crime. It saddens me, but not surprises me, that a pro-conservative furry convention exists or would exist. I think nearly any person with an intelligence score above 2 can agree it's dumb, but it's existence, is not without its warrant.
It would be the guy with a history of pulling the classic conservative card of falsely accusing people of being predators claiming "it's not the conservatives" holding the backwards beliefs on the puphood matter.
Prob the only thing I disagree with is I'm still not comfortable with pup hoods being worn publicly for two reasons: 1. It enforces the idea that the Furry Fandom is mainly a fetish group instead of a general fandom for anthropomorphic characters. 2. It's a really obvious public display of someone's fetish, and that's just uncomfortable to everyone around who doesn't share that fetish. That's not to say I don't appreciate how open people in the fandom are to sex-talk, but it feels like it takes away from the whole idea of this all being about the concept of walking-talking animal creatures, and just diminishes it all into a convenient vehicle for people's kinks.
I made a video about pup hoods that addresses your 2nd point which you can find here ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html For the 1st point, fursuits use to enforce (and still can) the idea that furries are a fetish group. When people learned why furries dressed up the way they do, people recognized it's not a fetish. It CAN be, but is not inherently. Same for pup hoods. Even if outsiders only think of pup hoods as a fetish item, you don't have to. When someone asks, you can just tell them it's a mask people wear for many reasons including that anomality which helps people feel more open to being themselves like a fursuit head. Also it costs WAY less and is more portable than a fursuit head.
I think in the definitions of today's conservatives, conservative furries do nothing for the furry fandom although one "conservative" ideal that I personally have is in the form of Luddism (Being skeptical or opposed to new technology)(of course with reason) and protecting artisans and artists alike, especially in a world of Algorithmically Generated Images that I feel endanger artists like myself, I believe algorithms can aid us AS A TOOL but in the current state of affairs with those blinded by dollar signs at the forefront we must put an end to it, or at least stand our ground against it until we can be sure that this technology is used for good.
I'm curious if you have watched Koor's video on AI. I'd also argue that supporting artists and small businesses isn't an inherently conservative view. AI imagery is only possible because of large corporations throwing massive bags of money around (skirting morality and legality) as they look to reduce reliance on human labor, aka "free market".
@@ApfelSkai Yea that's why I say conservative with very heavy quotations, I don't necessarily see Luddism and supporting small businesses as such, especially since I've seen more fringe right-wingers embracing the "AI revolution" for the worse, everything from propaganda, to cost cuts, to intentionally flawed algorithms that heavily discriminate against minorities I fear, but I digress I've seen their video on Algorithmically-Generated images if you're wondering
Hypothetical, Say you meet a slave owner who wants to join the furry fandom, would you feel comfortable welcoming them in? If yes, then what about a person who voted and encouraged people towards racial segregation who are still alive today? If yes still, what makes you comfortable with these people? Cause if your everyone includes litterally everyone, you're gonna cause harm
@@PureKoorfor starters, pretty sure slavery was abolished decades ago... and second, are you really comparing conservatives to slave owners? Im conservative, and no one has a problem with me, because I'm not extreme. But you are an extreme leftist, who right now is bashing on another ideology, while claiming to be inclusive. It's so hypocritical 💀
@Gnaw_YT It's a hypothetical to describe how conservatives go out of their way to hurt or ostracize minorities with their politics. Bathroom segregation is one such example, it might not mean anything if you're cis but it is meaningful to people who are trans.
@kloa4219 I understand it's hypothetical, but it's not a very good example. You are using a hypothetical question to compare how someone's political views "attack minorities", and literal slavery, which everyone today agrees is wrong (besides idiotic 12 year olds ofc lol). One just wants you to use a proper restroom, and the other had people of color working till they die of dehydration. You're not gonna die because you can't pretend you are something different. And on the whole bathroom thing... gender neutral bathrooms are acceptable, due to the reason given in the video, which had nothing to do with actual gender. I would rather not get into a whole separate debate over transitions, but rest rooms are designed and segregated to specific genders FOR A REASON. For example, a woman can not use a urinal like a man can, for obvious reasons. Just because you "feel" like a man doesn't mean you are one, that's just reality. If your argument is that we shouldn't accept reality, then don't even bother trying to argue over it.
@kloa4219 but I will say, there are some horrible people out there. Really any extremist politician is a problem, as shown throughout history. I don't agree with alot of the things some conservatives do.
ive been reading the comments for a good 30 minutes and the amount of arguing is insane like its kinda crazy how someone really just said people that share certain beliefs do not have any value of contribution into a fandom(and you just make art and add value that way?) . and lowkey some of yall need to touch some grass and spend some time w ur family cuz ive seen so many paragraphs omgg. cant people contibute do a fandom by simply sharing the same hobby? you can bring politics into anything if you try hard enough atp... also like why r u using slave owners me no own slaves..... real qs is would you let someone in the fandom that simply believes that the bathrooms should be segregated based on gender? i dont think anyone does anymore as that was a long time ago.. cant someone just put a suit on and like hangout ?? and the bathrooms?????? instead of trying to get gender this n that they gotta make em actually clean cuz public bathrooms are nastyyyyy.. no gender using that
Being a consumer and being a contributors are very different things. Sharing a hobby is good but when one's beliefs are detrimental to said hobby, then it's not really sharing at that point Slave owners are a good example for the USA given many problems still stem from our society ignoring that problem. The USA still has segregated bathrooms coded into building plans and general laws. So long time ago is every second of your present existence xD. Dirty bathrooms are a real problem that needs solved though ya haha
@@PureKoor he wasn't a fascist, he was libertarian and you just like calling people fascists. You attacked a guy who died from cancer and compared him to Hitler when he never once interacted with you and you didn't know who he was. You're a garbage human, and I hope your harassment videos and harmful rhetoric are rightfully taken down.
Well, the small amount of conversation this video made did nothing if confirm the hypothesis and the response from those that this is about provides content for a sequel video due to how many tried manipulative DARVO tactics, self-victimisation, and "no you're a fascist" replies. Perhaps the biggest irony of the "no you're a fascist" replies made in reflex is that nobody called anyone a fascist, and yet that was the immediate defence that some made. That's beyond a guilty conscience and it shows just exactly who these types harbour and what some even are.
Ya. Although it's not a guilty conscience it's more complex than that. I'll make future videos on the topic just cause it intertwines with a lot of fandom topics I've actually recorded audio along side that video which will talk about the middle ground cons referred to in the comments. So you'll probably see more of your hypothesis become a reality. Especially when I finish recording my main video about giving certain sandwiches to fascists lol
Conservatives do contribute to the fandom, but it is in the most negative way possible to the point where everything improves once they leave. Every conservative I met was a mean-spirited hateful individual who did everything they could to make everyone around them miserable and uncomfortable. People say that politics are irrelevant like ice cream flavors, but I disagree. What usually happens is that furry conservatives try their hardest to impress non-furry conservatives and Christians who shame them for being weird. As a result, many of them try to look better than others by harassing or bullying people "weirder" than them. In contrast, non-furry leftists/liberals don't care or are encouraging of people more weird than them. As a result, left-leaning furries don't have that toxic dynamic. They ostracize conservatives not because they want to be mean, but because conservatives are mean to others. When it comes to politics, furry is more compatible with left-wing ideology than right-wing ideology.
Honestly, I not a conservative enough to well, say what they can contribute. Other that their tendency to stay the same (yes, it is controlling, but so are any policies, with exception anarchy, but we know that does not work well) making "move fast and crash things" less of a thing. True that in one said that means some much needed changes and reforms take ages to do (why public bathrooms are so easy to break into?) or addressing other problems, because "must keep things the way they are" yet I gonna make one single point in their favour. They do red team, that is they true to find way and counter points to new adies, no matter how good or bad they are, and that is good because it means those ideas can only get better due being adjusted to address some of those counter points. Sure, a lot of the time is not even great counter points, one example being a swimming team locker not feeling comfortable with a transwoman body and saying this should be the case. When that could be solved by making so locker have some level of privacy, so people do not have to see each other naked (sorry homosexuals). Or that we could throw the gender out of classifications and use body weight and muscle mass to make categories in sports, like we kinda already do? BTW, got that Idea after a woman who got called TERF pointed out that gender is just used to make the competition more closer and thus fair and as result interesting, while also pointing out that Transwoman may have a clear advantage. In any case, I do not see yet a good reason to kick them out, sure they slow pace or straight up resistance to changed in culture is a drag on progress, however... fast changes in direction may not be so good when the situation is not dire.
So, taking the question seriously, I think we'd first have to define "conservative values" vs. "progressive values." From my perspective, modern mainstream conservatism brings almost nothing to the table. It's reactionary, bigoted, and clawing desperately at the last shreds of relevance and power. But, there are values, principles and ideas that have traditionally been considered "conservative" that do arguably have merit. Some people might consider "save your overt kinks and sexual activities for the bedroom and other designated adult spaces" to be a more conservative mandate, but I think most people would actually agree it's a good rule to implement for most spaces and gatherings. Now, I don't think you have to be a flaming Leftist to be a good person or a valued member of the fandom, as there are many perfectly fine furs who happen to be political moderates, independents, libertarians, or more "old-fashioned" (but not bigoted or conspiracy-brained) conservatives. However, I feel very strongly that being able to tolerate, accept, and play well with others broadly should be considered an absolute requirement to participate in this fandom, so bigots and reactionaries should be shown the door without hesitation.
I made a video about the "save your overt kinks and sexual activities for the bedroom" in this video ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html . Only a very fringe amount of people (who majority are people no one likes for goods reason) want the do in front of everyone casually. However, what is a kink or seen as sexual activity for the bed has changed over time. Thus we do need to be clearer about what we deem to be part of that good rule. Which I have not seen conservatives really have the ability to do. That's a trend across all these values I'm still wondering explicitly what a conservative policy would be that helps the fandom. Cause ya you don't have to be a flaming leftist to be a good or valued person. However, if an ancap or old fashioned conservatives is nice at the furry event then votes/encourages/pays people to do horrific stuff, then the fandom really has no defense against that. It's why bigoted reactionary folks can still have large audiences. I would seem better to point out the flaws they have, ensure people know those flaws, then have those folk feel unwelcomed and leave
The fact is, they don't do nothing, they actively make it worse. Like you said, the point of conservatism is to backtrack. It's a purely emotional perspective coming from a fear of change, and there is a lot of research to back this up. It's also why they tend to try to make it look as if leftists are overly emotional because they need to try to even out the playing field. However, I actually think a different mindset is becoming increasingly more dangerous, solely because of its increasing prevalence. Absolute centrism. It is nothing but bystander syndrome. There are a lot of people who say things such as "people need to keep politics out of the fandom" or "people have a right to believe whatever they want." The fact is, politics is everywhere and everything. It affects us all deeply. Why would we not want to talk about it, especially when one side would see our complete destruction with nothing but ignorance as the reason? People have a right to believe what they want, but they do not have the right to not be criticized for their ignorance. In the US, many seem to have this idea that freedom of speech means freedom from consequence, but that is not true. Those who say that freedom of speech is under attack because people get criticized for their actions are the real threat. They are the ones that want to limit the freedom to speak out, and that is the most important freedom of all, and it is a founding idea in this country. Those who want to silence political conversation are those who want to protect the unreasonable and the unjust from criticism. Of course there will be discourse and drama. But that isn't a bad thing when that "drama" is calling out a neo-nazi or a racist. Rather than try to limit discourse, let's try to direct it to those that deserve criticism. Stand up for what you believe in. If you get criticism, try to understand why rather than act as if criticism is a violation of your rights. If the criticism is unreasonable you can always criticize them back. There is nothing inherently wrong with discourse. There is something very wrong and dangerous when others want to shut down discourse about themselves. Speak out. Don't shut up. Let the world hear your words. P.S. You're cute UwU P.P.S. You should totally make a discord if you don't already have one. Would love to chat or play some games if you were ever down. No pressure tho :)
@@CodeyBlackJack You call the conservative position a purely emotional perspective ignoring any legitimate criticisms they might have on top of calling them ignorant. Then you proceed to make baseless accusations against all conservatives that don't apply to all conservatives.
Very true thanks uwu I do have a discord but the introvert me doesn't actively talk in it that much haha. I'll eventually try to restructure it so it's easier to talk on for me/set up stuff
I would highly recommend the alt right playbook series to see how it's true that conservatism is basically an emotional perspective OR a deeply hierarchical mess. here's the video about conservatism from innuendo studios ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html
Nothing but useless hate and bigotry that only serves to contradict their logic and drive so many people towards misery (Edit: Sorry If my original comment came across as if I was excited for that, I'm an enby myself and I would never want anyone to suffer the vile words and noxius hate that the conservatives of the fandom put out.)
I think the same points you demonstrated can be applied to liberals. In my country bringing up political stuff is seen as very close minded and disrespectful, but in the US it seems way too invasive on anything and must be brought up for some annoying reason. The thing is in both situations is just a subculture meeting (Furry con), and if you apply politics to it, it's just virtue signaling. The main thing is to have normal ground rules for the sake of people to enjoy animal-anthropomorphic content, if a political agenda is being pushed, then its main objective is being pushed aside and it ruins it for everyone. Now having rules for pup gear and those weird... skin suits? Well it's just censorship which it is already practiced in liberal places, it's not just a conservative thing, they just make a correct space where NSFW stuff can be, but the drama comes when the pup stuff wants to be in the SFW area as well, and it's not only pup stuff but BDSM equipment as well on the fursuits, and I think liberals tend to be more okay with it, but I think it's more a control related to age restriction, that's why 21+ cons are doing better and with less trouble, and in there the political stance is less seen because the main discourse in all ages cons is NSFW stuff. I'd say political agendas pushing inside of the fandom have no point in being there for both sides.
The question can be applied to any group but like I mentioned in the video, liberals are fine with neutral bathrooms which is a political action but one that is beneficial and makes people feel safer thus is good to do. Politics/governance is about the interactions between different people, so the discussion can be brought up under different names but yes, it is all about how humans work together when allocated shared resources. I made a video about the puphood discourse because said discourse was a thing before furries even formed ➡ ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html Calling that discussion virtue signaling ignores how past people (some who are still live today) were penalized for wanting to wear shorts or beach wear. Those clothes types being more acceptable was beneficial for all. There still many modern issues in the fandom that are rooted in really horrific bits of history. I discussed that a bit in my how to come up with ideas video ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html I'd ask how do you both sides segregation? There are furries(a very small amount) who want segregation of gender and race. If progressive people are pushing for everyone to be included, and the other side is conserving the status quo(where certain groups don't feel safe) while pushing for older laws that were used during USA open segregation... would you still say there's no point for both sides? Cause that's what I'm asking when discussing "what do conservative furries contribute". How can PoC have fun liking silly animal people if they're rejected from participating unless they accept having horrible states casually stated to them
@@PureKoor The virtue signaling problem can applied to both sides, in the end is just humans trying to figure things out, and yes, things change over time, like skirts or shorts being accepted, holding hands with the same sex was considered homoerotic in some places, but when it comes to drawing the line, it will be a forever human problem, or in other words morals will always have trouble with rulings, which can be a political field. I just think that we can draw lines, make rules without trying to be too moralist and too political of the current country problems, going on either extreme side can be annoying. I have to admit I forgot to add the bathroom discourse, and this is what I can add: While a lot of it can be solved with neutral bathrooms, and I think the liberal point of view is the most peaceful option, learning to understand the difference between sexes can be good too, and if gender is taking its place; learning to understand gender can also give healthy mental gymnastics in bathroom segregation, but what I just shared isn't related to the arguments conservatives twist the moral views, I'm just saying both ways of bathroom strategies have their pros without political views, the problem is that the political view will twist these views just to go in opposition of each other, which then becomes annoying, you see? It isn't just trying to find good rulings, but also going against the other group, it's literal intent of competition against the other side, and that's why I think a political view just ruins everything, specially in the US because they're forced into 2 sides, instead of multiple ones like in other countries, they're all forced to fight the other way of thinking, it's the agenda that punishes human decision to make rules in certain way. Virtue signaling is "I do morals better than others", when in reality we all struggle with morals and we shouldn't go against others, we should be helping each other. I just think both sides don't really bring anything nice to not only the fandom, but any human, you brought up the radical end of conservatives, but the radical end of liberals do exactly the same, and it's the same conclusion you brought up, it's people wanting to control people, that's the mean part of radical politics, and the clean cut of two sides in the US just makes it worse. But yes, as of today, the flexible, or I'd even say central liberals are doing the best work on the furry fandom decisions, and those cons which were conservative focused are horrible.
It's worth remembering that furry is an international phenomenon. Stuff like foreign policy, racism, and socio-economics directly impact people in the fandom at a greater degree than it would in a single region. When the US and other countries put sanctions on Russia, it impacted the ability for many artists (especially queer ones) to make a living. Brexit made owning a small business in the UK more challenging. Whether something is considered sexually charged versus sexually explicit is also down to local/regional laws and culture. Some places think a bikini is overly sexual, some places think a dress above your ankles is overly sexual, and some people think exposed breasts aren't sexual at all. What is the norm vs. what people think is a healthier status-quo to push for is also going to be present in places with diverse thought. That is to say that being aware of or discussing "political stuff" is not always virtue signaling, because often it does directly impact someone's life and the people around them.
It baffles me that there are conservative furries as if non fur conservatives would accept them for being a furry Like you hate on a minority while being an outcast in the traditional lifestyle they try to enforce
I would highly recommend this video to learn why you should have many problems with normal conservatives as a socialist ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html . As a lib that's less of an issue because both groups love capitalisms. But being that you're anti-capitalist, that should make a difference.
@@PureKoor I don't agree with their politics but I'm not gonna start telling them how wrong they are everytime I encounter them irl. I'll gladly speak my beliefs if someone asks though.
@@NerevarineKing You shouldn't do that every time you encounter them irl only cause that's not effective for change. However sometimes you should even without being prompted because there are topics that need to be discussed more from econ to social issues.
Conservatism is a spectrum. You can be and ultraconservative extremist and advocate for death penalty, segregation and whatnot. This is NOT good for the furry fandom. On the other hand, "soft" (or mild) national conservatives (such as the Isamaa party) would make it easier for us to form lasting bonds (also known as family) in the fandom and find eachother by geography, while also bringing better cultural understanding to the fandom.
As an atheist and recent FWA goer, trying to force Christianity into the fandom is not gonna bring many together. It'll bring some together but not a lot. Personally I'll be working to ensure theistic nationalistic conservatism is a fringe ideology in the fandom
Well- I think right off the bat. Do sub groups within a fandom need to directly produce content for the fandom? Like say for instance... maybe the star wars or D&D population? Though your main question for the comments was "do they contribute anything to the furry fandom?" Which Honestly objectively they do- But what they contribute to the fandom is not positive or promoting of growth- The furry fandom from it's inception was from people going against the grind of tradition and societal/hetero-norms. Talk among each other and establishing friend groups that grew into parties and clubs with more and more likeminded people gathering together to make create a safe space to be themselves fully. I always beg the question with even the base concept of conservatives outside of the furry fandom to American politics on What exactly are they trying to Conserve to? The Furry fandom is relatively speaking just coming into it's maturity in a sense and hasn't had enough time passed to pin point a golden era. Going back in time to smaller meets only means less accountability and more protection to bad actors in the fandom PDF-filiers and Zoo-files that have and continue to tarnish the fandoms branding.
You make a very good point Personally, I don't think anyone needs to produce content, I do think a furry needs to participate in the fandom's happenings though. Contributions can be just making friends and having fun. Keeping the furry fandom alive. So I generally frame contribution as positive outcomes only. You are correct that conservatives contribute to the fandom just negatively haha
Conservative here, and I was kind of surprised that your emphasis was on how a con would be run differently if conservatives were running it. I don't know anything about how to run a con, so I can't really speak to that. I don't really see a problem with gender-neutral bathrooms, either, as long as women's rooms and men's rooms are available for those who think they need them. What I'm aiming to contribute to the fandom is a new type of headpiece that I'm experimenting with; it's intended to create more visibility and breatheability for the wearer---though that innovation has nothing to do with my political leanings. Honestly, I'm sick of liberals assuming the worst of every conservative's intentions, and assuming the worst of conservative morals and goals. Maybe all the conservatives that your news media and social media show you are full of bigotry and hatred, but that has a lot to do with the fact that the news media wants you afraid, and social media wants you outraged. The news makes more profit when their audience is afraid, and social media makes more profit when their users are outraged, so they take the worst of the worst of whoever _isn't_ in your identity-group, take it out of context, sometimes even make some things up outright, and present it to their audience, hoping their audience assumes everyone in this it-is-not-me-group is like that, and is therefore a reason to be afraid and outraged. If I allowed my perception of the left to be similarly colored by my social media and news media, then I might as well say the left is all about the particular flavor of bigotry that the right calls "wokeness". What we call "wokeness" isn't actually about activism to help minorities; just the opposite, in fact: a criticism of wokeness that's becoming more common on the right is that wokeness isn't actually making anything better for minorities, is in fact making things worse, and is merely virtue-signaling. But the biggest reason we conservatives don't like what we call "wokeness" is because what we call "wokeness" is an active attempt to legitimize racial hatred, as long as that hatred is directed against whites. Let me repeat this for emphasis: the average conservative views racial hatred as evil, and the average conservative views activism that ends up doing more harm than good for minorities to be a serious problem. The average conservative isn't what you see in your social media or on your news, any more than the average liberal is what I see on my social media or my news: I am aware that most people who lean left politically are as just against this legitimization of anti-white hatred as the right is, and that it's the left's fringe that actually _likes_ anti-white racism and anti-white hatred (while refusing to _call_ it either of those things, of course), and that this fringe simply gets the most attention in conservative news media and social media feeds.
The question was what would a conservative con improve. You said you wouldn’t know what it would do differently then went on a passionate rant for 4 paragraphs.
@@longWriter if you think that would make a conservative con better why the hell didn’t you add it. That was the literal question he was asking, it sounds like you aren’t very passionate about that topic if you didn’t include it but included 4 paragraphs of filler.
I personally believe that politics shouldn't have a place in the furry fandom. Why bring one of the most hot topics of debate into a community centralized about accepting people for who they are? Save your political beliefs for the elections and remember that; "It's not what your country can do for you, it's what you can do for your country." Also, I may not agree with everything in this video, the main one being the bathrooms (I am used to Male/Female bathrooms and the idea of a Gender-Neutral bathroom kinda just rubs me the wrong way) but I acknowledge your points and they are indeed valid. But when it comes down to it, I would still choose the Male bathroom instead of the Gender-Neutral one as that is what I would be the most comfortable in and feel the most safe in. (But, then again, I have never felt safe in public restrooms due to numerous "incidents" in highschool.)
Politics is the interaction between people. Beyond that a fandom around the humanization of non-human creatures/objects would touch on it more, institutions like conventions are already very political. We just normalized a lot of it to think of it as not being such. So you can engage in it actively or let others do it for you, there's not really another option there. Bathrooms are a good example, we should be ensuring bathrooms are safe at all times no matter the gender. That requires solutions that aren't just "the genders can't be together" which requires progressives ideologies to do so because the only idea conservatives have is to keep them the same. It's fine to use male bathrooms if that makes you the most comfortable, but we should ask deeper underlying questions as to why you feel that's true to see if we can alleviate those woes
They don't like each other though. Unless they're extremist, they need normal people which is why many conservative orgs radicalize into cults or fizzle out
"Conservatives pretend to care about" I'm in full agreement with you when it comes to gender neutral bathrooms. How ever, assuming the worst about the motives of the group you're criticizing and dismissing their words as excuses and the people themselves as mere bigots is simply counter-productive. As a european, I'm quite fed up with the american political infighting infecting the fandom, and making it even more toxic than usual.
The USA was formed from the old world folk coming here. Some of the problems here arer exports from folk over the pond. A lot of furry fandom stuff started in the USA and given it's a subculture of the average culture, that infighting has always been here. People can be more visibly shouty via the current platforms but SOME furry conservative thinking PoC are inferior due to their parents teaching the "benefits" of being pro-jim crow is sadly a norm from when I entered the fandom. Hopefully you can understand that someone being curious as they try to segregate you can have all the nicest motivates in the world while clearly doing something deeply harmful I got my talking points for this video by directly listening to or talking to furry conservatives specifically, I'm just not naming them cause I don't want to platform them. This does mean I'm still very open to hearing how conservative ideologies from anywhere is helpful in improving the fandom. Complaining that USA furries in the USA want to be treated with respect doesn't seem like a big ask AND it doesn't address the question in the video
This video seems very attack based/straw man, (which would push conservative furries away from your video and therefore you wont get an answer to your question).... but I also can't find flaws with your video (either because I'm uneducated about conservatives or that I'm having trouble thinking up an answer to your question). To potentially add something, taking from what some of the comments have said, I think on a scale of Left and right, furries were sort of created more built on ideologies on the left. so thats where they sort of started and established themselves. Some furry ideals might veer as far as centrist, but I don't think they will ever be in the realm of conservative as that won't mesh with where furries established themselves. Fortunately or Unfortunately, conservative furries are then constantly pushed out or not made welcome in the fandom, so since they don't feel comfortable, I don't think they really have the space to contribute other than to hide and buy/sell commissions. Like, I really fkin want to know the answer to this question, but I don't think we'll find it, at least here and now. (video was thought provoking, first time making a comment this long I think hahaha)
I used a lot of real convos and researching cons to make my arguments, but yes I am pretty blunt for what I think of conservatives x3 The fandom is more left-center for sure on a lot of social issues, but there's "don't ruin the magic" culture that a lot of those issues aren't brought up so there's no real friction when a conservative does enter the fandom initially. Of course eventually it does come out but by that point a lot of people will just try to avoid the topic as to not create conflict unless it's just too egregious. There's actually quite a few large conservative furry creators who people tend to just forget the past deeds, which happens cause there's a lot to keep track of. So they don't feel comfortable but they shut up so that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their ideas I too would like to know the answer haha. Even if you ask a convo in a nice way they don't really have an answer. However I'm always open to be proven wrong by some confur out there
I don’t really agree with the minors in the conventions not because it’s a furry convention but all conventions in general should stay for people over 17 at least
Younger people being interested in a topic tend to keep things going. A lot of kids media had anthropomorphize characters in them so they'll be around. Parents also sometimes have furry kids so having a family space is important. Thus they need to be considered and conventions is one of those places.
The tilde should be… “POLITICS do nothing for the furry fandom” seriously whether your conservative or liberal I don’t care keep it all out of the fandom it literally ruins the fandom. The fandom is art, not flipping politics
I wrote my title correctly. The fandom is about anthro with is focusing on humans. Humans make politics, so it'll naturally be a thing without needing to even point to all the other furry stuff that does politics daily
The point is a happy furry shouldn't even talk about, and when you see people talking about it you should avoid them if you want to be happy. Politics are for people with too much time on their hands.
Politics is the discussion around human interaction aka everything. Ignorance is a way to be happy because you're purposefully keeping yourself dumb. I wouldn't call that a good thing. You can engage in politics and still be happy BECAUSE you're actively holding the tools to improve your situation. Be smart and talk about it more
@@SkullGod69 Well for one I can tell you that I am not cringe unlike democrat liberals. HAH! See, just provided two jokes there. Donated to charity. What more do you want me to explain myself since liberals do NOTHING!
@@FoxyPercival714 The algo just takes note you're engaging with this video that keeps your attention on youtube for however long. So it's very positive for me :3 And once again, you can't list any aka your ideas are bad. Plus you didn't negate you don't do anything so thanks for agreeing with me!
I mean, I'm a liberal conservative (meaning I combine policies from both sides, but I respect tradition alot with regards still being given to human freedom and individuality) and I feel like I contribute something to the fandom
@@PureKoor Rights for minorities, abortion rights, transparent(ish) government, environmental care, more restricted gunlaws, etc... On the right end I vouch for a return to cultural values (while still giving the upper hand to civil rights and individuality, mostly), a MUCH stronger government, passing on more power to the states (somewhat???), steelwalling culture (as in, reinforcing it and all its traditions against the rise of globalism, while still accepting globalism), a return to pagan values, etc...
I mean like what conservative policy would contribute to the fandom. For example, how would an artist like me benefit from your idea of protectionism of culture when 1) has only more recently accepted my existence and 2) a lack of progressing culture would reduce the amount of resources I can use for making new works
@@PureKoor It wouldnt contribute anything bc politics shouldnt be at the core of the fandom, what i said simply was that conservative furs can contribute, and by conservative i mean like the moderate ones, we dont talk about the trumpists...
@@rstar6988 Politics are at the core. They always were, we just pretend they're not or that it's so normal we don't consider it the normal argumentized politics. So what I see is induvial contributing to the fandom, but when a conservative ultimately gives a conservative idea/solution to do something in the fandom... bad things happen even if it's not the core. So again you're gonna have to give me a policy that conservatives contribute cause if a conservative isn't doing anything conservatively, then they're not really a conservative at that point or they view their beliefs to be so inconsequential that they don't bring them to the table which neither position is great lol
I would say not directly... But I think it is good to have a balance on the progressive ideology. As I do get a bit worried that sometimes progressive side gets quite pushy as well... I like the ability to just let people be honest with themselves and do what they want to as long as they are not hurting others. To the point on the economic side, 100% agree that we should not be letting the resellers of stuff they didn't make at all be in dealer's dens because we're trying to help support those members of the community who focus on the hand crafted goods.
Can you be more specific about which actions a conservative takes to create balance and what issues are we balancing out here? Like progressive people back in the day were pushy for civil rights and conservatives wanted to find a middle ground within jim crow polices or just outright jim crow. That's technically a balance but one which we NOW expect people to understand was harmful (because past people didn't think it was hurting others to segregate people). We still have such issues today such as furry conservatives' ideas of bathrooms
@PureKoor Let me clarify a little bit, I don't claim nor lean conservative, I am more progressive. That said, I don't agree with the people who take it too far, as an example of one I have seen some people getting a little upset about including myself... are around the "you are just an egg" relating to the Trans verbage around it. I am not saying people are doing it directly to be mean or even fully understand the feelings it creates for some. I know I am treadding on some tense water here, so let me try and be as careful as I can be here. I am Non-Binary and I have thought about being Trans, it was something I explored and talked with many and even health professionals about. I have realized that I identify far more as someone who is Non-Binary/Queer gender. That said, there have been several people who have personally dogged on me about being "an egg, that just needs to be cracked" and sure started out playful but i have seen people pushing harder and trying to tell me I should just transition that the Non-Binary/Queer is just a stepping stone, and maybe it is for some but for me I enjoy the feeling of some days I am more masculine and other days I am more feminine and yet I have had people tell me that my choice to not Transition is bothering them... which I don't understand and does become annoying. I am not saying this is everyone, I am not even saying this is the majority of people. I am just saying that this jouney that I went on to try and find myself out and go through those motions required me to deal with people who continually just badger me with "you make such a great girl with your mannerisms and voice" and "you are just not cracked yet, it is going to happen" and just feels upsetting to me. I don't dis people for wanting to transition, I want people to it is important to be yourself but don't pressure others into what you think they should be ... let us ask questions and stop pressuring someone after they have asked you to stop.
@@TimothyRogers Just wanted to say that those people who were trying to "crack your egg" are definitely in the wrong. That's literally rule number one out of the proverbial trans handbook, where they're supposed to let folks come to their own conclusion instead of imposing their beliefs onto someone. Even if one assumes they're an "egg", they have to let them come to that conclusion on their own, first.
I agree with that but we don't have to talk about those people. We can talk about what the positive contributions are from conservative ideologies that make the fandom better. I personally just can't think of any substantial ones which is why I'm asking
RUclips doesn't let me comment on videos without deleting comments for having some AI determined wrong set of words to explain some things. I don't know how anyone even posts comments more than 3 sentences long anymore.
@@PureKoor I made a 3 paragraph long comment, reworded it over and over, broke it into 3 comments. I give up. I'm not going to create some form of newspeak just because i like making long thought out commentary. RUclips obviously doesn't want actual conversations happening.
TLDR completely ruined scrapped comment version: As someone with views both conservatives and progressives would variously either agree with or oppose, a video like this is a bit problematic in that it seems to show you don't appear to have tried talking to a conservative to understand the logic to how they think. You're going to generally find a wider range of opinions among conservatives since there's not so much of the enforcement of supporting the same specific views. They tend to be independent thinkers and willing to stand on those values even against one another. There's also that more generally it's problematic because it appears to be a symptom of the politically radicalized effort to socially other anyone with differing views. There's a lot of generalizing, painting an entire diverse group of people with different and opposing opinions as in lockstep with only the worst things some of them believe. It's no more true than painting progressives as all being the screaming banshees trying to destroy jobs and lives of anyone they disagree with. And believe me, as someone who sometimes has a slightly different opinion on the best way to handle divisive issues, no one has inflicted more toxic behavior, accusations, and blocking on me than progressives. Conservatives at least seem willing to listen. I really think progressives need to take a moment to look at themselves and ask if yelling, calling someone some sort of istphobe if they don't 100% support your exact position, and blocking them really does anything to convince them of anything. Dx I'm completely willing to discuss my opinions on things with a progressive or conservative at any time, but no one lately seems to respect the idea that you can't always bring someone to your side. Two people can be completely correct in their differing conclusions because their outlook on the subject has different assessments. At that point, instead of rousing a mob, saying some nasty words, and blocking, you're supposed to just drop the subject and sort it at the ballot box while hoping your opinion reached more people than theirs. I don't think people are responsible enough to use blocking correctly these days, but that's a whole other subject i could go on and on about the long term effect it has on social development and society as a whole.
@@PureKoor On that note, I don't claim to be able to represent views of a conservative accurately myself seeing as I'm an atheist, ace, and consider political parties a cancer upon democracy, but I can try.
Disclaimer, I am not a conservative. You won't find someone more looking forward to escaping this boring human shape for something more interesting out there. If I could take a dip in mystery liquid and come out the other side an anthro species of my choice there's not a soul alive that could stop me from diving in daily and trying out every form imaginable. That said, I felt like this video poked fun at all the memes about conservatives instead of what a conservative actually is the same way that the republicans talk about "liberals". Part of the reason you have so much trouble figuring out how a conservative idea might help a convention is because a lot of conservative ideas are the starting point on which many ideas are built, such as fiscal conservatism. Plainly stated, if a con spends more money than they make, they aren't going to have a second convention, are they? In the same way, respect for institutions are baked in already with many conventions taking time to thank their volunteers, staff and security during opening and closing ceremonies. This would be considered a "social conservative" idea. A lot of "conservative" values are taken for granted because they're the default and we don't think of them as conservative. Plainly stated, a "conservative" is someone who values tradition and the continuity of tradition. So in this context, a "conservative furry" would be someone who wants to maintain the traditions of the furry fandom as seen in history: fringe experimentation, person to person collaboration and interaction, the artist's alley, room parties, fursuits, etc, etc. They might also get mad about people "breaking the magic". If you want something that you might identify as a "conservative" philosophy more readily, then I would point to the emphasis on the value of the nuclear family. Imagine a con that had a focus on bringing whole families of furries to conventions, with theming and events focused on the whole family going and doing stuff together. Right now I'm seeing videos about furs panicking over whether or not a "no kids" future is the future of conventions, and this is a conservative value that would fit nicely as a counter to that. You could still have adult only sections, too. So, yeah, don't confuse conservatives with people who call themselves conservatives but don't actually know what the word means, or with politicians. Politicians are the ones who want to control your life and force you to live a certain way. It's not just republicans, they're just loud and unimaginative about how they want to go about doing it. Democrats also want to have control over your life, they're just sneakier about how they go about making you miserable. Also, hot dang your VR model is beautiful. I gotta get me one of those!
How do you find the middle ground between racial segregation and integration. A lot of our politics have many solutions but the underlying logic has been pretty binary for a long time. You don't need the middle ground, you need good solutions. People will go with good solutions even if they're extreme because the point is not to middle ground just to avoid hurting someone's feelings (like conservatives who whine a lot)
Your question is entirely in bad faith. Most of the video was just flaming random talking points and saying how evil a group is. You've poisoned the well out the gate. Judging by how you've responded to anyone who isn't just agreeing with you in the comments, which is just more inflammatory commentary, you're set in your own bigotry and are not open to other perspectives at all. So I have to assume the "question" is entirely rhetorical and is made less for discussion but for affirmation. I don't consider myself a conservative, but there's a lot of things I disagree with from them and a lot with the other side. I've made friends who I have made disagreements with on political lines. You know what helped bridge a gap wedged by political differences? Our appreciation for anthropomorphic characters. When I found common ground, it was easier to look past assumptions and get to understand what an individual believes as apposed to the presumed prescription of labeling everyone who identifies as conservative a bigoted reactionary who don't belong in the fandom. Politicizing anthropomorphism on such tribal lines is a bad idea overall, so the people making this con get flack from me for that as well, but considering you seem to speak for what the majority in the fandom believe, I'm not surprised this is what they've done in response to the fandom's own intolerance.
My question is genuine even if you wanna pretend the arguments I said didn't directly come from conservatives I've listened/watched/talked to. People here framing this discussion as "both sides" is weird given you can just say what conservatives do well. I don't need to both sides pancakes if I say I like waffles ya know. So if you have a argument for conservatives then I'm all ears. Just odd you complain about wanting common ground but your first reaction is to describe why there isn't common ground and how I'm bad faith. Your judgment skills seem poor there bud. I'm an induvial trying to convince furries of my arguments around a furry topic, not a spokes person for the majority of the fandom. I'm flattered though ty
@@PureKoor You must not understand how badly you poisoned the well then. You can't say "I dislike this group, here's a bunch of reasons why I think you should hate them, they are not welcomed in my group" and expect me to believe there is any kind of olive branch in your paws. I've read your responses to other comments, you just dig your heels in even more. You've just rejected the concept of a both sides perspective. How could any conservative expect a good faith engagement with you in such blatantly hostile conditions? My description was not how there isn't common ground, because I can criticize many conservative beliefs too if pressed, but you are absolutely asking for 'discussion' in bad faith, after listening and reading your thoughts you do not come across as somebody who is actually open to other people's perspectives. You may not be trying to be an officiated representative, but you are speaking as if you know what the furry community believes in and what's best for them.
@@humanconvertile You avoided my point but let's start off with yours. Conservatives talk about perishing people like me constantly so the idea of an olive branch without real steps as to how it's safe to do so is an issue yes. BIG HOWEVER, I can still say my views without needing an opposing side to compare it against. So if you have a point, just state the point, why debate about hoping you have a debate. I'm right here lol. Just state the conservative policy or shoo.
@@PureKoor I did not avoid your point, in fact you made several in response to me, and I addressed them all. Unless what you're referring to is the supposed "discussion". I have no interest in engaging a petty tit-for-tat of "conservatives do this" "progressives do that", because that's all it's going to end up being. What I'm doing is criticizing your approach and sincerity, which is important if you actually hope to have real conversations with people. If you actually want to talk to people from the opposite side in a manner in which you claim, starting off this hostile and asserting the worst possible positions are the default is not the way.
You are actively avoiding my point and question. The question isn't "do progressive do better". Directly tell me and any passerby DIRECT POILCIES THAT COME FROM A CONSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY that make cons better aka contribute positively. That's all you have to do. I'm well known for my views, volunteer, canvass, and other IRL activities. I can and have contacted conservatives even in recent times. You're back seat driving in a completely different car driving the opposite way lol. Answer the above paragraph or again, shoo
All of your research was done on specifically extremists, so why are you grouping them as a whole??? Antifurs do the exact same thing, and we all complain... Every ideology, fandom, etc. has values. It's aggravating to watch people group others like that.
It's based on casual conservative too. The point of ideologies is to have similar beliefs. Indivuals can different but the group as a whole will have trends. That's just the nature of categorizing stuff haha
@PureKoor I'm a casual conservative, and I happened to agree with alot of what you said. The bathrooms for example, totally acceptable and understandable. But my reasoning is not because it makes people with a gender crisis "feel better", it's because of the practical usage. I agree with you explanation, but not any other reasons for it. categorizing the whole thing is just not a great approach. The point of the video was just to simply combat conservatism. I could categorize gays, Muslims, women, men, liberals, anyone... but it wouldn't be right, because they aren't all the same. You just grouped a whole bunch of people together and called them worthless? And again, antifurs do it to furries all the damn time, and we all make the same excuse.
@PureKoor why are we politicizing the fandom anyways? It's literally just a style of art, costume, or expression. I can agree that posting art or costume directed souly to being political, whether its conservative or not, is something unnecessary though =w=
Again, categorizes do have generalizations because individualizinh everything requires expertise that a human life span can not allow for. If I say a blue flower, you will combine every value from deep blue to cyan, again even though you could individualize every color. Politics is the discussions about interaction between humans. The way you frame that interaction matters especially when conflicts occur. The fandom had always been political cause humans are political. The real question is will you actively engage with it or will you be ignorant on the matter. Me saying conservatives don't belong in this fandom is active engagment because I want certain outcomes like practical expectation trans people feeling welcome along with all the other practical reasons
@@PureKoor Ok, I'm not conservative or right wing or whatever, but I take issue with the "conservatives don't belong in this fandom" part, dude its a fandom not a club, you don't get to decide who can be a part of it, no one does, it doesn't matter who you are, what you are, what your background is, what your believes are or was, anyone can be a furry even conservatives its not all just about LGBT, its about being a fan of everything furry, if you are a fan you are a fan, you can't just shut people out because you don't agree with some of bs the extreme and horrible ones spout, same goes for some of the left nut jobs
I'm a conservative furry. I'm the main source of income now or was for a decent amount of artists I work with. I actively include friends in artwork without making them spend any money. I'm not religious, yet the constant shit talking about conservative furs like we're the problem is what made me switch from Anarcho-Tribalist to what I believe now. Also kids shouldn't be allowed at conventions at all. I was groomed into being a sex toy, and a furry. My body is now ruined, and I have put too much effort into the furry lifestyle to back out now. Videos like this make me feel further isolated. Don't delete this comment, try to explain how I'm the problem here.
@@PureKoor It wouldn't be the first time my existence was denied for being different. Also not all conservatives think exactly alike. If I ran a con it would be business as usual but only an 18+ space. A pretty simple change
Being different is fine. Being conservative is bad for many logical and historical reasons! People do think differently but labels are used to narrow what people need to assume. If the label doesn't fit your views then don't use it! Rejecting a large portion of the fandom due to age would make anyone under 18 have a bad time, so it's not that best solution nor conservative
@@PureKoor I don't think you understand conservatism that much, but I agree that some branches are bad like Neo-Cons. I'm a Constitutional conservative. It's not a bad thing to be proud of my country, want to maintain small government, and have the people as the predominant voice in our republic. What exactly about that makes me bad? Liberals are the ones who call me slurs and all types of horrific things to try and win an argument. Conservatives won me over with the fact that at the end of the day they'll handle serious issues while the left avoids them like the plague
@@PureKoor Also any con or meet up like that should be 18+, and that is conservative to want to keep kids out of that environment. I was groomed into being a sex toy when I was 11 by people who started off by saying the same things you are. So be careful with that rhetoric
I may be a gay Republican furry, but I leave ALL politics at the door when it comes to the furry fandom. My boyfriend is a furry Democrat and he leaves politics out of the fandom as well.
Ok, but conventions have problems they need solved and those issues will be political. So can you name a solution that fits within the conservative ideology that benefits cons or the furry fandom i general. Cause quite frankly, even if you're quite about your politics within the fandom, your vote, voice, and money still makes it harder to run cons or to feel relaxed knowing a person who is being friendly is ensuring that rights are taken away.
You all talk about love and acceptance but you realize that by saying that a conservatives vote is harming you is kind of the opposite of that. The reason why voting was made in the first place was so the majority of people would be happy. If more people vote conservative, and less democrat, then that means that more people share a view that is different than your view. Also, most conservatives feel like democrats are taking away their right as well so don’t bring up that BS that we are taking away your rights just because we have different views than you. I would also like to point out that I am completely fine with people of different views. What I don’t like is when they shove their ideology in my face and call me a bad person if I don’t agree with it.
Democrats are pretty bad to ya. Conservatives are way worse but dems are better overall. Anywho, love and acceptance doesn't mean everyone is in that group. If someone murders your family, are you expected to love and accept them? No. You need reasons to. I want people to feel safe and welcomed. Conservatives make that hard to do, they need to leave. If such folk want to be part of a community, they need to ensure they're helping the community be better and happy. Also most people don't vote and the electoral college was made so the will of the people was less Democratic in its process. So ideally if conservatives were the majority they would be the accepted group, but realistically both dems and conservatives win by the consent of the few due to various reasons that's too long to discuss here. Maybe a future video!
For one, the reason why I would say I side with the right is because when I was younger, I tried to learn Japanese because I was fascinated with the culture. Someone in my class didn’t like that and thought it was racist for a white person to try and learn that culture. Therefore, he attacked me with a pencil after we had an argument about whether or not I could learn it. I ended up fighting back and he ended up getting injured. In the end, the school that I was attending at the time gave me a week of in school suspension and he had no punishment at all because the school listened to his side of the story but never asked mine. They also never contacted my parents about it and at the time, I thought I was lucky because I could hide the wound and they would never know, but now I know that in reality, the school was just covering it up. So yes, I would say democrats have been pretty bad to me. Also you’re idea that the furry fandom should only accept left wing thinkers is one for the most fascist ideas I have ever heard.
@@Fox1ord-wy7gx You accepted a whole ideology because people were mean to you? Do you follow people off a bridge cause they ask you nicely to? That's a terrible story, I'm sorry you experienced that. You should learn Japanese, it's a very beautiful language. 大学で日本語を勉強しました. BIG HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you should base your belief system off of purely from people's actions alone. Those people in your past were bad, democrats are generally not great for many of their beliefs such as capitalisms. You as an individual though can think for yourself and think for yourself as to why ideas or good or bad. ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html I made a whole video about such for that very reason. The republican/conservative/fascist platform is bad for more specific reasons than "they're mean" like I mentioned with topics like the bathroom debate. And given that people's beliefs will always shine through, it's good to actually think about what's being said. I believe the fandom should be a place for people trying to build a better future for all, which includes simple things like making friends. That allows for many belief systems and different types of people. What I'm saying doesn't allow for is people who want to harm others for their personal gain such as conservatives
i am a bit confused as to how... can you get.... conservative furrys to begin with. sorry, I'm not rly versed on the furry culture... but like u said, it looks like a huge part of it is inclusivity, which is the ONE thing conservatives don't like? so confused....
I'll make video discussing the topic in the future but the reason conservative furries are conservative are the same ones that can be found throughout the world for normies. The reasons are very dumb, but to the conservative there is a logic that makes sense in the short term. Conservatives have a dissonance with the fandom because in tbe long term our values are better (which they obviously enjoy) but to admit that would be admiting they're wrong about their core beliefs
As someone who grew up in a conservative and religious home in a conservative state, I had to come to terms that who I am will never meet their expectations. It's through having lgbt+ friends and meeting furries online that helped me unpack my old views and learned to love and accept myself. I don't believe conservative values should represent the furry fandom at all as it is counter productive to self expression and individuality in the fandom. Be that in mind, I am not going to gate-keep people of differing opinions to a furry convention as long as they are respectful and don't promote hate or cause other issues. I just don't think it helps anyone if you don't give others the opportunity to learn or change their minds. Given the current conservative policies of anti trans laws, restricting women's reproductive rights, banning of any lgbt+ representation in media/books, and project 2025, I am not going to vote for any conservatives for a long, long, long, long time.
Ya, the biggest problem comes from the fact that a belief will always be acted out. Like if someone is afraid of heights, that doesn't affect every cliff driver's experience but it does mean THAT person most likely will avoid that activity. So if a conservative is "respectful and nice" to the average country expectations, they can get away with a lot. I give an example of that in this video ruclips.net/video/saXzXq3lXnM/видео.html which you can see the affects of in real world conventions People should absolutely be given the chance to grow and learn. Mistakes/failures are good to do. That makes us human in an anthro fandom. However a lot of conservatives, even those wanting to be apart of the fandom, aren't here to learn and have active rhetoric to suppress that learning like "the fandom is just a hobby/Don't ruin the magic/the furry fandom is for everyone". To be more proactive in gatekeeping is good when the people doing so are considering deeper reasons as to what we want this fandom to be
@@PureKoor LOL Funny enough I watched that video after commenting on this one. I agree that you have to weed out bad people/actors in any group/fandom. I rather have people that are more open minded and accepting of people of various ethnicity/gender/sexuality over someone who constantly belittles others for characteristics of their identity or who are just rude and mean all the time. I wouldn't enjoy the fandom as much as I do if it was more conservative or mainstream. Rereading my comment I understand where your point is being made. The hard part with gatekeeping conservatives in a convention would be identifying them. Unless they walk around in pro trump merch or spout any conservative rhetoric you wouldn't know immediately until a red flag pops up. You wouldn't know someone's deeply held belief unless you interact with them long enough or if they cause a reaction/disturbance. You definitely have to be vigilant and proactive in that space. Normally I would discourage the "Bobs" of the world from joining in the fandom or anyone who I feel would not be a good fit. From my own perspective, I am more open to helping people who are questioning their political/personal beliefs. Though I would start that more privately rather than just taking them to a convention while they are starting to question things.
And? Seriously, being a conservative, I have already realized that everything is bad and have already left the fandom. Thank goodness I didn't come back, as I'm a simple artist who makes sketches for free and lives a quiet life outside of fandom
Yeah. You ask wrong question. Job of conservative is not to innovate but to oppose progress, Question should be what progressive idea conservatives stopped because it was bad. Progressive push civilization forward, conservative keep it from being pushed over edge. Problem overall is politcal, political discurse in US and in world(rest of the world is like 8 years behind US) got out of balance both sides are getting more extreme, and we rarely get compromises today, both sides wants to dominate other. About separated bathrooms they are basically the same as Gun free zones They don't stop premeditated crime, Separate bathroom will not stop rapist the same as gun free zone will not stop a shooter. But they stop crimes of passion and opportunity. Unisex bathroom would work in most places but in places like bars where you have drunk people and drunk people do stupid stuff they are bad idea. Puphoods is just question what is fetish gear. Are they sexual? No. Are they used outside sexual situation? Not really. So in the end question is do we want sexual stuff to be less sexual and more public. And do we really need them , we already have fursuits/heads. And the last. "Whats point of Con Furries in Furry Fandom?" Simple they are Furries Which means they belong in Furry Fandom.
Conservatives are the progressives of the past. Conservatives slowly align to the progressive position from recent decades because they don't oppose progress, they oppose progress that isn't from their childhood. Being pro-slavery was conservative, then the extreme progressive abolitionists fought to free the slaves into "peaceful" segregation. Those once progressive people we view highly became the conservatives for their kin that wanted full integration. Etc etc. That cycle means "both sides" is a bad framing for the actual process going on. Same for the bathroom, drunk people are still people. Drinks can't turn you into a monster, you'd already have to be one which is an underlying problem we could address before they reach the bar so bars can have neutral bathrooms like everywhere else. I made a video about the puphood question you should check out ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html A person can like anthros without being a furry. The furry fandom is about connections with other people. So if a conservative is being hostile n' causing harm, then they don't have to belong to the fandom. The fandom can reject them which has happened to some once notable right-wing furries.
@@PureKoorYeah, Conservative is a role, The same as opposition. Literally last point from video you linked. What we get from having conservative or any opposition is that we have to convince them. We have to do list of Pros and Cons, with out them you close yourself in echo chamber surrounded by yes man. From political point of view we are near end of cycle but it's like living in era we don't know in what era we live now, we don't know if circle s ending or beginning. Drunk people are people but which thing is easier to do; Make segregated bathroom or check everybody who can safely drink alkohol and police them from getting into bars. Harmful person is Harmful. Is every conservative Furry Harmful tho? if there Harmful progressive kick them too. BTW was puphood question just trick to watch your old video? XD
Why do we have to convince them? I did that for a lot of my life for my mere existence. That was always cruel to put people like me through. An intellectual debate for conservatives is real people's lives being stopped to appease them. Not sure what you mean by a circle tbh. History rhymes but isn't a complete circle haha Would your drunk argument also mean we should separate bars by gender like we did for race or cigarettes? No, it's just a common furry discourse point with clear history to fashion that can easily be cited for laws, news paper articles, and more. Since I made a video on it already I can present that argument without needing to rewrite it over and over!
@@PureKoor Simple. Do to other what you want to be done to you. But I know that due to ideological differences, prioritizing different values. discourse is hard. But there is no one better at finding cons than opposition. You don't have to really convince them but coming up with workaround/solution to problem they point out improves idea by simply eliminating cons. All of it balance between security and freedom. You can lock up everybody in cells and they will never hurt each other but is life like that worth living.
I don’t know if this is a hot take or not, but I believe politics should just be left out of conventions (both right AND left ideologies) of course people are free to discuss politics amongst themselves in a civil manner but I don’t believe cons should be formed on a conservative or progressive or political basis. Bringing up politics from either sides can cause arguments and ruin the experience for many people. Cons should be fun spaces to hang out and interact with people of all backgrounds. As a person with a more right leaning opinion but with an open mind, I wish everyone could get along and interact with each other peacefully regardless of beliefs or religion. I know that’s far out there to expect, but I just wish that everyone could be nice together. The queer people and the straight people could all agree and be kind. Everyone is respectful toward each other, right wing people respect left wing people; and left wing people respect right wing people. Everyone regardless of race, gender, sexuality, and religion can be together and just enjoy the fun con together and celebrate our uniqueness and unity as a community of people with shared interests of anthro animals 😺 🫶 Sorry if this makes no sense if I need to clarify anything I will. I just want everyone to know I respect and love everybody ❤️ I’m willing to answer any questions you may have and have civil open minded discussions😊 Also I do not speak for all conservatives some of them are real jerks lol. Politics are corrupt in general 😕 Also for the creator thank you for making this video you make a lot of good points and thank you for this opportunity to discuss! ❤️
It's a normal take that sadly is held from a forgotten horrify history haha. Yes, a con based around politics will create a negative experience for some people. The question though is /who/, because cons already create negative experiences for some people. Including the honest and open political discussion upfront means being more truthful about what the goals of a convention are, which we already do for some topics it's just been normalized over the decades to seem like it's not political to run furry cons how they currently run. What nice means can be radically different from country to region to person. You can have a person who thinks you shouldn't exist while ensuring you don't starve. Humans are pretty complex creatures! It's a bit long but I'd highly recommend watching my video on how to come up with ideas, cause I go indepth with this topic. You can skip to the "why good/ok/bad ideas" chapter if you're low on time. It directly states why some ideas literally can't coexist. That some conservative ideas are mutually exclusive ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html
Reminder: I am being serious about the question in the video. Good to speculate on the idea of the debate for sure, but I still do want a direct answer about the specific question. Like actually hand hold me through the respond for the what, how, and why.
I thought for a few seconds and I believe that the question is kinda rhetorical in some ways.
By being a conversative, one must keep things the way they are and resist change.
Since the only way to improve something is to change it, the result is that any good idea conservatives have is keep by the progressives and any idea that is bad or can be improve on is changed.
The only thing Conservatives will inherently do better is when a idea backs fire for some reason, that is turns out to be worse.
Off course, you can argue about is the right (where nothing is left) of the political spectrum, and that they can change policies.
That makes thing even crazier as any new idea they may have how has prove to be good would be fairly quick implemented by the progressives, compare to the speed they would adapt, if at all, any idea by the progressives.
As such... one would have to consider history instead of just "what conservatives do better that we did not already implemented"
Still given their more stiff approach to new ideas and shift in culture, is not gonna be much.
The last argument may be their tendency to segregation, however that has some serious drawbacks.
while keeping Muslins, Jews and Christian separated maybe the fastest way to ensure a "blood bath" does not occur, it also does not solve their intolerance one to another.
I guess you cannot be a conversative and contribute to improvement, as change is paramount to improvement, meaning the contribution they have is just keeping things the way they are avoiding unforeseen consequences/results.
As such, they do not contribute to any improvement and that makes the whole question kinda rhetorical.
How they can contribute if they contribution is to bring old solutions when newer and possible better ones are being explored?
The worst part is people who have a very incorrect, and derogatory perception of conservatives. Conservatives aren't racist, they don't oppose inclusiveness, or any of those other unfair smears. Conservatives contribute exactly the same things to the fandom as liberals. They contribute art, money, and fellowship. The cruel and prejudiced political activists who want to force the furry fandom to be an echo chamber of strictly pro LGBTQIA+ BLM ACAB ect ect... will only harm the fandom by creating an echo chamber and normalizing cancel culture, callout posts, and the toxic use of mobs and pitchforks to remove people they hate. It will mean that everyone has to constantly be afraid of offending the wrong person lest anything they say be taken out of context, twisted, and used to inspire harassment campaigns.
Yes, there are plenty of derogatory stereotypes for liberals. Before the 2016 election of Trump, conservatives fit in very well with the fandom. (as long as you don't generalize all the conservatives to basically be furry raiders). However now, conservatives have to hide deep in the closet. The ones who are brave enough to be open about their values are bullied so harshly that they double down and are pushed into extremism and become hateful of those who bully them. Even very kind gentlemen without a bad bone in their body, like 2Gryphon, have been slandered, harassed, and ostracized for literally no reason other than they upset a political fanatic and cruel zealot who intentionally manipulated their way onto the Anthrocon staff purely so they can wield their power to delete people they disagree with.
If we want a healthy, inclusive, and civil fandom, we need conservatives. We need to stop being so stupidly political and cruel.
@@TheJaguarthChannel I would highly recommend watching my other video "how to come up with ideas" to show why your first paragraph is weirdly framed. ( ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html ) Skip to chapter "why good/ok/bad ideas" if you're short on time. People contribute art, money, and fellowship. The /ways/ they do that is the question here. Conservatives have a bias that leads towards really negative outcomes for reasons that can be found in both of these videos. Main: ruclips.net/video/E4CI2vk3ugk/видео.html Extra Citation: ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html . The idea of cancel culture with people going after someone for no reason IS the out of context twisted idea that misses why people voice their opposition to conservatism
Liberals aren't the best either for sure. Before 2016 the fandom was more bigoted. Sorry to be blunt but its true. Not to say eveything is magically good now, but 15 years of perspective plus listening to the history of the fandom, it's very obvious how things have changed. The furry fandom has always been a much better place than normal society, but it is a SUBculture which takes cues from the average culture. People were still being bullied then, it was just different groups. 2Gryphon is a bully, I've been live to his shows, he /can/ be funny but his humor does punch down a lot. You can have very potent and blunt beliefs without being pushed into obscurity though. Given you watched a video where I am very vocal and still am around after all these years haha
Please watch my other videos, I'm still working on subjects like this but I promise you. We don't need conservative ideology in the fandom. We need solutions to ensure everyone has a good time and that requires deeper thought then staying with the status quo
*edit: I'm gonna semi-retract that I've seen 2gryphon live. I'm fairly certain he performed at MCFC but honestly that may have been some other notable members in the fandom. My age is showing a bit I guess haha
Me, any furry contributes to the fandom regardless of politics.
I am not dodging, actually; I just feel that focusing on political views o furries are barely different from focusing on the genders and races o furries. The furry fandom really is a melting pot of sorts.
@@MarkyVigoroth The focus happens because PoC/Women/Transpeople/etc are living their lives then a rando makes a big deal out of it, ruining the mosaic. To repair it you require politics to mend the cooperation between people. We have more control of local issues (aka community issues), but many of those issues are downstream of our main culture (that is why we're a SUBculture). You don't need to focus on gender or race, but you are required to acknowledge the history for why gender/race exists as a concept in the first place. I highly recommend knowing better for seeing how the past deeply affects the present. Even if you're not American, a lot of the furry fandom is so it's good to know a bit about ruclips.net/video/iihVxjJjY9Q/видео.html
The bathroom comments remind me of "what do you mean gender neutral bathrooms don't work, it came free with your fucking house"
I love that quote
There's a difference between a public restroom and a house restroom. Also nonbinary is a myth
Difference is 'Public toilet'
@@chungusgaming1813 No the difference is that sense public restrooms are open to the public you get a lot of people coming in and out so one of the best ways at the moment to reduce the chances of someone being assaulted or something related happening is to separate the restrooms by sex. Yes there are "family" restrooms but it's simply not practical and also in many cases unnecessary. with private restrooms it's literally just you and maybe a few other people.
@@gorenoisebulldozer140 Well, most ch1ld r4p3 is done by the child's close peoppe, such as family, so your logic falls short.
Same iirc is the usual thing with other s3xual ass4aults.
As for toilets separation - nope, it doesn't solve the problem, because... you can just walk in.
Plus, people of the same sex r4p3 each too, even if they are not gay.
If one wanted actual safety, rather than an *illusion* of safety, they would advocate for single-stall bathrooms to be the norm from now on.
overall though, gender neutral bathrooms aren't proven to be much dangerous and also help with things like trans people being at greater r1sk of s3xual ass4ult than cis people (which is true for minorities overall, cause less protection given by society)
I could be facetious and say conservative cons would split away the conservatives furs from everyone else but... that's about it.
They tried that and they imploded without more liberal/progressive people's help :c
Well its already happening, because if you get exposed as a conservative you are exiled and alone..
Those same conservative cons consisting of conservatives that conservatives don't like.
@@chasespake9271 conservatives in a nutshell
love the pfp!
I've already gone through 3 gallons of bleach while watching this and brother I'm still thirsty . . .
Sounds like a skill issue
Don't blindly enforce the past, but do learn from it and remember it.
And also conserve the better parts of it.
"Conservative" here to offer a counter point to your video. Let's start first bathrooms issue, saying that "Unsecured doors don't stop criminals from sexually assaulting" and "It makes more bathrooms available, faster for people with full bladders"
Both of these arguments are a stretch. Segregating men and women bathrooms doesn't eliminate the risk of sexual assault, but it does mitigate it to a great extent. There's a reason that we don't have mixed barracks at military bases, we have a "boy scouts" and a "girl scouts", and we have female counselors dealing with female campers and not males.
Obviously, you're not going to stop sexual assaults from taking place if someone really wants to victimize someone. But I feel like mitigating that as much as possible is a win.
As for the "full bladder" argument, people need to have the wherewithal to think "Hey, the dealer's den is a 10 minute walk from here. (The bathroom). I feel like I should go ahead and use the restroom BEFORE I get to far away.". If you wait to use the restroom until you have "a full bladder" and you can't hold it for another "2 minutes" before you pee yourself? That sounds like a you problem, you should know your body better and know the warnings before you approach the point of no return.
As for the Pup hood/kink gear debate you're gas lighting. Fursuits are a physical representation of the funny talking animals that our imaginations have conjured so that we can step into the role of our Fursonnas. It's no different from an anime cosplay or to a lesser extent, a Halloween costume. Fursuits by their nature are innocent and cute. Pup hoods have been and always will be considered fetish or kink gear, similar to the Fursuit’s more lewd sister, the murrsuit. Pup hoods and murrsuits are made for one thing and one thing only; to wear shortly before or during sex or to satisfy a sexual kink. True, people have fetishes regarding fursuits in general but again, excluding the murrsuits, fursuits are NOT specifically designed to fulfill sexual fantasies. Pup hoods are, and should not be worn in public spaces.
As far as the “Free Fur All” debacle goes on, I am one of the vast majority of “conservative furries” (not really conservative. But I'll wear that badge for sake of argument, here) the majority of us disapproved of Free Fur All. It was good as a concept, but AWOO allowed the Furry Raiders to get involved with their panels, and it turns out that “Peacewolf” and “Foxglove” were wholly unsuited for the task. They have their own wiki pages, you can look up why at your will, and for those wanting to know who the furry raiders are, it's a group of knotsee Furs who I think we can all agree do not deserve a space in the fandom.
At any rate, the vast majority of us learning this, not only took a step back but ran as fast as we could away from Free Fur All. Attendence tanked, and the con died a deserved death. But you left all that out, making me feel as though you're only looking at numbers on a chart rather than actually delving into why it failed or interviewing anyone associated with the con or it's staff. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's how I feel.
As far as the whole ideology based on serfdom thing, that's a very deep rabbit hole that I won't debate with you, here. Or I'll be here all week.
I'm certain I'll be skewered in the replies for this, which is fine, I knew what I was in for when I posted this. But remember, all opinions are worth listening to, whether they are judged to be of value later, or not.
I'll answer this in more depth later cause I can already see some critical flaws, but you seemed to have left out things that better the fandom that comes from a conservative ideological bases. Why is that argument missing from your essay?
@PureKoor
I just explained the things from my point of view what would make the con better, and those items I listed as potential issues in my mind aren't even from a politically motivated point of view, as I myself am not truly a conservative.
For me, these are moral objections more than anything, I feel that gender segregated restrooms and the non inclusive of kink/pup gear would in fact make the con a more comfortable atmosphere for more people.
You have to think, no matter your decision you're going to anger one group of people or another. I feel that my ideas would offend the lesser of the many groups attending the con. For me, it's common sense, Koor.
Or are you asking the question as to how I would control a con if I personally were running it, which is a question I don't believe I could answer with any satisfaction. I myself don't know the nuances and technicalities of managing and funding something like that, I suppose I could generate a set of rules and regulations I'd like to see implemented, realism of implementation be damned, but that's about all. Is that what you're after?
@@xxspottedhyenaxx8314 Your morals are shit, and actively harm queer people. Fuck you.
The disconnect between the left and right of the fandom comes down to the apolitical nature of the media itself. Anthro (or Furry) art, is not limited to any message, and thus you potentially get all different perspectives participating. What conservatives ignore is the origins of our fandom. It was built by queer people, people who did not conform to norms, and were not approved of by the culture of the time, nor even the culture of today for the most part. From my perspective, conservative furs do nothing but judge those in the fandom they dislike. If they are chaste (or prudish), or straight, or uninterested in trans issues, they have loudly protested with silly buzzwords, "woke", "too political", "marxist", "leftist" and so on. There's a bottom line for our fandom and it's this "We are going to support the expression of people's identities, whether through art, or signs, or clothes, etc. Those who cannot tolerate that don't belong here". We have no time to listen to the protests of the people who wished the year was 1954, and are ignorant to what it was actually like for people then.
When it comes specifically to conventions, Free Fur All is a great point of study. It drew extremists, and predators that were rightfully kicked out of our conventions. It's second year failed to even attract artists to decorate the event, they resorted to using AI. Those who attended were simply masking their bigotry, trying to play off the fact that this whole event was political. An attempt at a big party of puny bigots who couldn't stand being the minority voice at our conventions anymore, all while pretending it was about furry. Our fandom wasn't built for them, yet they selfishly think it's owed to them. My message, you want to make art of anthros and be an annoying conservative? Make your own events, call it Anthro, i don't care but you can't have our fandom.
I will say from a conservative view point this "furry" convention to me is like those who dress for comcon. Yeah I'm not into the lgbtq+ but this space is for everyone and leave the unlawful things out of the obvious. And there really can't be much to improve on.
Well, I never saw the origin as political leaning, to me it was a bunch of nerd having a common interest and that attracted others.
Yes, the freedom of self expression was and is important and paramount to the base of all of it, after all, the founder was very friendly throws people, note that is Ironic how keeping it is a conservative policie (Ah... politics, people like to make it high contrast, but is just like coffee and milk).
In any case, I not gonna say they cannot participate in it or even say what they think, after all bad ideas and opinions do exist in both sides (is just that conservatives are "stubborn" so accumulation happens).
That they can use the word? well, I cannot stop them without going in some attrition that is of little help, better to spend energy else where.
So I can almost agree with what you are saying, 100% if the point is "They can not own it" given is pretty much for everyone that is not a abuser or intolerant.
The queer origins of the fandom are somewhat overstated. While there have always been queer folks around, and some of them were organizing pioneers, queer furry art was much harder to come by before the 00s amid tons of straight stuff. During the same period, the fandom was also a less politically homogenous place. A lot of early artists were quite politically conservative and very heterosexual (some of whom are still around, though much less prominent).
It's just that the queer side won out, institutionally and culturally -- in part because there's more room for identity experimentation (including furry) in queer spaces than in conservative ones, and in part because more space for self-expression has opened up with the huge advances in queer rights over the past ~20 years and the huge swing in public opinion toward queer acceptance.
@@youkofoxy Conservatives are intolerant though, they want to conserve past ideals, which were built on intolerance. If they were right wing, fine. Leftists and right wingers have a lot more in common than they want to think. Conservatives? The political sphere that's built on conserving past ideals that are notorious for intolerance? Yeah, no.
@@ronan5642 To a leftoid everything is far right
As I have been within the fandom since the 1990's speaking with many members of the community some highlights I can try answer through the conversations I have among people include;
Most Conservatives often champion free speech, which can benefit the furry community by ensuring diverse voices and artistic expressions are protected.
The conservative emphasis on personal responsibility and self-reliance can encourage furries to take initiative in organizing events, creating content, and fostering community engagement without relying heavily on external support.
Small business owners who could benefit from conservative policies that promote entrepreneurship and reduce regulatory burdens so furry creators thrive and sustain their businesses.
Emphasize the importance of community and family, which can resonate with furries who view their fandom as an extended family or close-knit community.
and much like the left leaning such as myself; Conservative individuals and groups often engage in charitable activities.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head for tonight.
Brought here as a youtube recommendation, may check out more videos. 👍
Conservatism comes from blood kings. Freedom was a progressive movement (such as the enlightenment) So freedom of speech from a conservatives even within he fandom is still regulated by the hierarchy the conservative believes are eternal and natural. It's freedom of speech until it disagrees with the king, it's personal responsibility and self reliance until it puts them lower into the hierarchy. The family is the mini kingdom of man, community is one where you're a serf or the lord.
Such ideas are detrimental to the fandom. Like business is a competition for conservatism. The king is overpowered in the game, because that's the point. Most will lose which sucks for creativity and experimentation
Imo, religion tends to be the community/charity medium but a lot of that charity is to convert people not actually building people up to do their own thing. Conventions are already charities that do good work and given the first cons and communities were lead by a non-conservatives. That conservative is not needed here for that.
:3 glad you liked the video!
@@PureKoor
While conservatism often values tradition and stability, it does not necessarily imply an endorsement of rigid hierarchies or "blood kings." Many conservatives advocate for meritocratic principles, where individuals rise based on talent and effort rather than birthright. The assertion that conservatives support freedom of speech only until it disagrees with a "king" oversimplifies the conservative perspective. The concept of conservatism is broad and can include a belief in decentralized power, where freedom of speech is valued as a means of maintaining a balanced society, rather than solely protecting the interests of those at the top of a hierarchy. The idea is not to suppress dissenting voices but to allow for a diversity of opinions, which is essential for a healthy community, a good perspective of this is to look into the works by Rowan Atkinson on more speech.
Describing the family as a "mini kingdom" where one is either a serf or a lord is an overly reductionist view of conservative beliefs about family and community. For many conservatives, the family is seen as a unit that provides support, nurtures individual growth, and fosters values that contribute to societal stability. Similarly, communities are often viewed as spaces where individuals can come together to support each other.
The notion that conservatism stifles creativity and experimentation by enforcing rigid hierarchies can be challenged by looking at conservative support for individual responsibility and entrepreneurship. In many cases, conservatives advocate for a free market, which can encourage competition, innovation, and creativity. The idea that "most will lose" oversimplifies the dynamics of competition, where success is often tied to innovation and perseverance rather than predetermined outcomes.
I can personally agree while it’s true that some religious charities may have ulterior motives, this does not invalidate the positive impact many religious organizations have on their communities. We could probably bond over the personal opinions I have about the horrendous acts that religion caused on my own family history with the topics of residential schools and the 60's scoop that occurred in Canada. Additionally, the suggestion that conservatives are unnecessary within the fandom because conventions were historically led by non-conservatives ignores the value that diverse perspectives can bring to any community.
I wrote this in the hope these counterpoints serve as a foundation for constructive dialogue, encouraging a deeper understanding of the diverse perspectives within the community. By engaging with these ideas thoughtfully and respectfully, we can strengthen our ability to articulate our own views, the intended goal is not to silence dissent but to enrich the conversation.
@@svartursteinn I would point to this video ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html and it's foot note ruclips.net/video/E4CI2vk3ugk/видео.html because you are correct that individuals can have nuanced worldviews. The foundation of conservatism is one that derives from hierarchical ideas. Even the idea of merit matches with that idea of hierarchy that in our current conservations can be seen as freedom by some ideologies but conservatism is not one of them. Families are mini-kingdoms because their version of "nuture" is one of control ruclips.net/video/mNOmFBw1I_M/видео.html . If I can find it I'll send a video about how innovation has been stopped by conservatism and capitalism. I could point you to this one but it's a bit more complicated than what this video says ruclips.net/video/j5v8D-alAKE/видео.html
You are framing this discussion in terms of what conservatives think they do not what they actually do. Is a good impact good when much of the power used is for ill? A flat earther also can bring a diverse range of ideas to the table but if those ideas are bad then why can't be we be honest about it? Why is putting out ideas the only measure of success rather than the usefulness of the ideas being expressed?
It's nice you took the time to make counter points but for someone like me, this is basic USA rhetoric about conservatives. It's what most grow up listening to. The reality of what conservatism theory is (which yes is historically tied to blood kings) doesn't match what happens in real life and what happens in real life can be flowered up but ultimately is determinantal.
Personally if you wanna make an argument for deeper though, I'd rather see an actual laid out plan for what exact idea would be implemented not a vague gesture to one. For example: [Gender neutral bathrooms in hotels with gendered bathrooms can have custom signs placed over them to indicate gender neutral and prior notice on social media can indicate that this change will occur. This will allow better bathroom experiences for all con goers by reducing bathroom distances, reducing stress, and allowing friends to stick together especially if they're a fursuit handler.]
Like can you actually think of a proposal that directly that a conservative would give that could actually be followed or critiqued?
I can't think of any sort of way that conservatives could contribute to the fandom, in fact, they might just make it worse. *Some* conservatives like to make the argument that being too liberal means supporting ALL acts like zoo or p3d0, which is not true of course. And yea it's common sense, liberals also don't want dangerous people in the fandom. I'm also curious how any conservative ideology could even work in the fandom, and what instances when it's called for..
They absolutely make it worse. Even being charitable with a good faith conservative, there's just a lot of issues there that conflict with the fandom ya
About Puphoods its very funny cause most of the time the debate goes around oh I don't want kink shown in public and........ Honestly, what's the difference with a fursuit head? both can be used for the very same messy purposes, the problem is that one we like cause its all cute and fluffy and innocent and the other one we don't. That's why the whole debate of hoods yes or no its very silly to me, cause I'm more on the let people be happy side.
While I support your point fully, let's not forget that it's never about the fabric, or how much it covers, but always about the cultural associations to said fabric.
@@hevconsume2504 I made a video about pup hoods discussing the cultural association point because there's an issue there that's been going on for decades before furries even formed ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html
Tbh not all furry's are in it for the nsfw, i.e the asexual side of the fandom.
Plus pup hoods tend to also be not fully head covering like fursuits heads do. So it just looks way more like a person with a kink dog mask rather than a furry oc came to life.
Also isn't a mursuit what is used for the kink side instead of the fursuit?
@@Ilikefire2793 a fursuit and murrsuit are visually indistinguishable. You know that some people wear the same fursuit heads to cons that they wear during sex, right? I mean, there’s really no way to know for sure if someone’s fursuit is actually a mursuit unless you asked or someone told you directly.
Pup hoods can also have different colors, ear or muzzle shapes, accessories or other items that bring a character or roleplay personality to life. What is the difference, again? Besides that one mask is leather and the other’s fur? And why should someone not be allowed to participate based on wearing an inherently SFW item? The mask isnt a sexual item, its the actions and the roleplay that takes place while the mask is on that’s sexual-theres a big difference. Even so, if someone feels more comfortable expressing themselves at a furcon in a pup hood rather than a fursuit head, I genuinely fail to see any issue with that.
@@Ilikefire2793 A murrsuit is just a term for a fursuit used for lewds. They're the same thing and plenty of people wear theirs mutually. The deal is you can CLEAN your gear much like you can clean your clothes. It's more appropriate to like.. have a separate suit for that kinda stuff, just that I know of a lot of folks that don't.
Not all pups are in it for NSFW, either. It's literally just a mask. From an outside/normie perspective furries, pet players/pups/etc are all just animal weirdos. :b
Puphoods got popular because they're easier to wear and generally less expensive. You can really breathe and properly see in them while a fursuit your vision is limited to about 20 feet in front of you before everything is all blurry/put in a blind spot.
I wear both! If I don't wanna be too hot and have more easy access to drinks/talking I'll generally wear the hood. THe fursuit is a bit more of a costume performance and I tend to need a guide/some help.
Ok, actually thought of an answer to your question, being a furry, you don't have to contribute, point of a fandom is appreciating what we are a fan off in this case furry characters, just being a fan is contributing
Consumption is not a contribution. That's just consuming media. It's why liking anthro chars and being a furry are sepeate actions to most folk. So if a conservative is going to go to a convention while bring their ideas by interacting with folk (which is a contribution) what ideas makes the fandom better off?
I suppose their capitalistic prowess could allow them to establish businesses that provide goods in convention dealer's dens. (Or teach other folks how to.) Or their viewpoints could potentially be a good basis for establishing a civil discussion on politics in a panel. I know I'm really stretching here, (go figure a fox balloon would be X3) but that's about the limit of what good I can fathom they'd bring to the fandom.
In my opinion, having conservatives (especially modern US conservatives) in the fandom would be a mixed bag where any good they offer is outweighed by conflicting ideals/beliefs. The primary factor here is how polarized current US politics are, and a reluctance, or stubborn refusal, for folks to consider a differing viewpoint. While they can contribute the fandom in the same way as other folks do, their viewpoints differ so drastically from the rest of the fandom that they'll very likely clash and cause discourse wherever they go. The only way they'd be accepted would require them to relax their extreme viewpoints, which would ironically skew them away from being conservative in the first place.
Ya their view points are very very different.
I do think a conservatives capitalists prowess comes from their cruelty which is why the hypothetical ancap dealers den director is the best example of that. They don't actually know how to do better at business strategy (we keep having to bail out corportions or watch them burn through stock winnings like musk is doing), they are just willing to throw people under as a stepping stool which from a distance looks like them being king of a random hill. Same for the civil discussion, it's not really civil to ask if PoC are violent by framing it as "crime is rising". It more so just causes people to focus on how bad the statement is rather than looking at why statistically crime has gone way down and the places crime rates go up are very fixable. Such as removing sundown laws
@@PureKoor All good points, and even more reasons people like this would be an awful fit within the fandom.
Furries trying to run a business would stick together and help each other out, while a conservative type would likely be cut-throat and ruthless in their business endeavors instead. It's how the billionaire elites do it, after all... /s
Even more so with having any form of civil discussion. Your example alone would very likely be contentious to a conservative type, and anyone who'd defend PoC would be "woke" in their eyes. (I'm not even gonna get into how they twisted the meaning of "woke" since then.) Unless folks are willing to use critical thinking and question things, they're only gonna listen to what the news person/ local pastor says and run with it as fact.
Well...they definitely contribute content and entertainment 😂
It was so weird seeing the hotel washroom made neutral, it's been years since I've been somewhere with a urinal lmao
Do conservatives do anything for anyone exept themselfs?
They are pretty active when bringing tributes to their kings and lords. The basis of their ideology does come from serfdom haha
conservatives do nothing but make cringe compilations and whine about others constantly
@@PureKoorWe Are living in interesting and dividing times, eh?
One question about a concept which Is Political within nature and I don't mean to neither spread it, neither dismiss it.
Welfare State - specifically Social Democracy.
Could you elaborate on it please?
@@yeboxxx_channel_2505 Here's a whole video free stuff ruclips.net/video/LQIxbwfMVlM/видео.html . Here's another video on social democracy ruclips.net/video/TRq3pl17C8M/видео.html . Hope these help
@@PureKoorYea I agree with that, have you seen what is happening in American right now😅
Script and delivery in this video was really smooth nice work Koor!
As for the video itself yeah I mean current US conservatives have policies that are very actively anti lgbt and anti furry (same thing). I don’t really know how economic policies could apply to a con other than “free market ideals” just allowing any large corporation that can put forward a lot of sponsorship money to set up in the dealer’s den, which would be bad obviously. And the political ideas either CAN have panels and discussions at a con already or have no place at a furry con ever. I don’t know what’s left that would improve a con
Thank you!
There's a LOT that we need to improve cons with. How volunteering works like when there's a storage of volunteers, how to get people to collaborate on stuff even when not volunteering like elevator management, how events give democratic ownership/compensation to people like DJ-ing work or artist alley, ensuring better safety of ALL fandom members, ensuring the con boards are represented of our members, ways to do more good for the charities beyond money, ways to educate furries to have better lives using cons as a more efficient teaching space, and a lot more. There's a LOT to be done that may not be bombastic change, but when those issues are fixed it is felt by how more smoothly everything runs. Progressive policies have solutions. I can't think of what a conservative solution (that would make most furries happy) to any of the issues mentioned that
hopefully I made your statement correctly I'm a bit tired LOL
Ya you got it that’s pretty much the boat I’m in. I don’t mean to say cons are perfect but I’m not sure how any conservative(at least US conservatives, not sure about other countries whose conservatives aren’t as crazy far right) politics or policies would make anything better
Hey I’ve met some actually met some really good conservative furs. Now it’s only been one group. But eh. I don’t think the avid political furries (aside from select few like Apollo and that’s probably it) contributed. Anything. Hell what positive do most furries contribute? It’s just a little meh to call out one political spectrum when all this fuckery is going on.
Most furries contribute quite a bit. Most people are lurkers so it's easier to focus on the vocal people. However it is more meaningful when you have a shy furry who approves of neutral bathrooms versus a conservative wanting to "keep the magic" by hiding a PoC is wearing a fursuit. Those small things can really add up
@@PureKoor understandable
i mean, i defend freedom. that's what i do for the fandom. and im not left. im not right, but im def not left.
By nature we will have a pattern of motive sooner or later, it comes free with heritage & environment. You're right in some way, left in some way.
Left isn't dropping everything or drastic power overtaking, it's just abt taking & making up a new space.
It's possible to nuture & form new ideas of social dynamics, and practice it. And be one of the first in example, rather than the blueprint others have left and are moving into (the left). But that by definition is just another new left like many people are actually doing, ppl are trying to make their trails. Otherwise, the mix of moving on and create older trouble is just a recipe for disaster.
But I mostly think you don't mean abt these things. Likely you're just the passive person having impressions abt each term & title which will never emcompass the whole theme of these terms in reality. It's the dynamic, not home for imagery stereotypes. You'll move very right when you're attached to a thing too much that you may fail to see how it's not helping some others, but there's some intelligence in feelings of attachment, people just have to practice it better. Left is also harmful when you bulldoze anything with some complicated problem within, and people obviously fail to address problems all the time, although that's not the excuse to not put in effort anymore. Being fluid & compassionate doesn't mean centrist also, it's such a dirty ignorant word in current era. I only take out some part of dynamic to talk, obviously words from few ppl can never capture human dynamics.
Oh and, practicing diplomacies & actual loving boundaries are just skill issue, everyone simply have some problem with it,, but for what I'm seeing, often it's left leaning ppl who are putting more energy into it, while right ppl often perform it & being petty abt it.
Such an interesting topic that I definitely needed to do some research on. In answering your question, while I think there should be a good balance between both conservative and progressive ideas, conservatives have benefited the fandom in pushing for a greater acceptance of furries into the mainstream, and by encouraging change for the fandom to become more socially acceptable. Because, as you probably are aware of, there a some very NOT socially acceptable aspects of the fandom that should be eliminated. Great job on the video btw ❤
I think it's worth elaborating on "very NOT socially acceptable aspects of the fandom" as that line of thinking could include things that are largely mundane, only a problem for groups with puritanical beliefs, only an issue because of US-based internet policy, warrant a discussion on psychology and anthropology, OR are an issue that exists at the same rate both in and out of furry spaces.
Did conservative furries do that? I don't really buy that
@TigerNamedJerry It is an interesting topic and I'm glad you liked the video! I do have the same question as skai though. What specific aspects are the not socially acceptable ones? I made a video about puphoods a while back because although it's not acceptable socially, so too were bathing suits...until they were acceptable. (here's the vid ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html ) So does appealing to the majority like conservative ideology wants help? Getting people to understand our norms as safe tends to work out better in the long run
Conservatives have quite literally passed completely baseless laws against furries in at least 2 states
Love your video, thank you SO much for making it! Your point of kids being informed and alert for predators vs. being "innocent" is fantastic. My kid's 6 y.o., and yeah you bet I want him to know how to protect himself.
I'm glad you loved it! Hopefully I make more cool vids in the future haha.
As a european furry: Oh no, american politics is permiating the fandom discourse again ;)
I saw you asking similar questions on twitter/bsky threads, and I don't really disagree with any of your arguments - but aren't you straw-manning a bit here? Like is there a big, vocal conservative movement? I feel that furries by their nature kinda keep conversatives out - or rather are unattractive to conservatives. Ofc there's always a relative spectrum within any group, but isn't the furry fandom overton window so far left, that the conservatives basically don't matter internally? The biggest discourses I see is politicians/conservatives outside the fandom attacking the fandom (and all other percieved lgbt-associated minorities) from the outside.
I feel like this has mostly been an issue in America and nowhere else. At least based on my experience online conservative furries have been a vocal minority within the fandom for quite some time now, and they’ve even managed to organize their own little con since they kept getting banned from regular cons due to their constant harassment. Then again, all of this is basically a reflection of America’s societal and political struggles.
*inserts always has been meme*
I'm not straw manning in this video because I'm thinking of arguments for why conservatives ideas are helpful in the furry fandom. Like I said, thinking about that question, it's either status quo keepers or really toxic ideals (primarily from the USA cause I'm from the USA). I'm not saying all conservatives have THOSE specific ideas. I am saying furry conservatives when given the chance to improve a situation... usually don't. So if someone make a policy statement that is derived from conservative ideals and improves cons, then my video still works.
My favorite video on this dynamic (again primarily USA oriented) is a main video by Innuendo Studios
ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html and their video's citation explanation ruclips.net/video/E4CI2vk3ugk/видео.html . Yes externally a lot of conservative-aligned politicians are denouncing furries. Internally furry conservatives/furry conservative politicians aren't really listened to but they do have their group chats and twitter circles which is where I got my talking points. I'm just not gonna name drop them because the smaller ones don't need the platform and bigger ones are already known haha
@@smellyberner It's def world wide issue, it's just the USA has a large furry presence and a lot of eyes on the country given its empire status. It is good to remember that the USA is a product of the old world and the British empire. The fascism we see in the USA was build along side other fascist states given our jim crow laws inspired some polices enacted in WWII germany. Furry is a subculture which will derive some of its internal politics from the average culture
There'a definitely a big enough movement that they tried to make their own con, but it went down in a blazing shitstorm.
I'm not a conservative by any means. I support LGB rights, i'm pro choice, i am an atheist, i am open to people who have different world views, faiths, and politics than me. But the furry community since 2016 (trumps election year)...have become so extremely hostile to anyone who isn't an outright socialist genderfluid ACAB personality. I've been called both a nasi and s christo-fascist for posting the most tame centrist takes. There's people actively trying to force the community to ostracize anyone who isn't a lefty. This isn't how it used to be, i was in the fandom since i was a child. My views have not changed very much... the community has. More bullying, more callout posts, a complete normalization of slandering someone as a bigot just to punish them over personal drama and get people to don their torches and pitchforks. It's sad, eating itself from the inside.
The more politically extreme and niche the community becomes, the worst it becomes.
As someone who is a conservative, I actually think the fandom is fine for the most part. I really have no problems with people's sexual orientation, religious beliefs, or way of expressing themselves. I also believe that conservatives and progressives being mixed together may be a good for people to share ideas and find common ground rather than resort to bickering. I myself have never stereotyped an entire group of people because of a few that might have given the group a bad image. A great example would be furries themselves as some people have this idea that all furries are zoophiles because of a few people that were associated with the fandom. This is why the fandom appealed to me was because it was so diverse that I felt that even though my ideas may not align with someone else's, they would still be inclusive regardless. I actually do agree that these conservatives are doing a bit much and it would probably help if they didn't act as if their policies magically fixed problems.
There are a few things I would like however. One thing I've noticed is that some furries need to be a bit more open to differing ideas. You do not have to agree with me, just hear me out and not despise me because we don't agree. It is very likely that we have more in common than we do different, yet some people in the fandom are just unwilling to listen. One common thing I've noticed is that people resort to insults and assumptions/stereotypes rather than trying to see where the person is coming from.
Again, I love the fandom for all that it is. I love the people, art, and the energy and everything in between. I just wish that both sides could come together to focus on the amazing parts of being a furry and stop using the fandom as a way to push an agenda.
I think the important statement to reflect on is the "bit more open to differing ideas".
It's difficult for any human being to admit they are wrong, because we are taught from a young age to be self-reliant and that lack of knowledge is considered weakness. However, with regards to socio-political topics I've found progressive arguments tend to be backed by some amount of scientific research and objective study (something outside themselves), where conservatives tend to be focused on anecdotal experience or tradition (self-centered and limited, aka "where the person is coming from").
While I'm sure you meant well by your comment, the "they're pushing an agenda" statement while also avoiding commenting on any specific disagreements is a bit of a stereotype unto itself with the idea that somehow the past didn't have this "agenda pushing". I think it's more likely that people enjoy furry and the more they become involved the more likely they are to run across people and views who don't mirror their own. Viewing it as an agenda or simply as community discussion is a matter of perspective.
In another vein, a large reason why assumptions and stereotypes are used from progressive folk to conservative folk nowadays is because the overwhelming amount of opinions/arguments that are thrown or shared regularly online. The human brain will work to categorize these as that is just what the brain naturally does. So if you are to express an argument that is considered "traditionally" conservative, someone is likely to assume they know the rest of your argument because of the amount of "data" that the brain has collected through experiences online with other conservatives. I think the trick to holding a conversation with someone with differing views is less of "can I explain this in a way that makes sense?" and more of a "how can I phrase this to not be automatically categorized into what would be categorized as conservative diatribe?"
I grew up in a conservative family and I made a lot of assumptions after I cut them off and broke away for a long time. It took me a while to break down the assumptions and stereotypes I had made myself about them and to talk to them through it. However it requires modifying one's natural filter that their brain creates to categorize things. Because everyone has this filter, it's the reason confirmation bias exist, as well as the anchoring effect, and much more.
As annoying as it may seem, having a voice to second guess ideas and think of the negatives is rather important.
I ain't a conservative but I do appreciate them. They can help with reality checks at times and help highlight the ideal middle ground.
In the end, what's more important than anything is to encourage politely voicing concerns, and politely addressing those concerns.
we have to remember, we are all wanting what's best, its just that none of us know the entire situation from all sides.
You should look for good ideas, not middle grounds. Diversity of thought is important BUT is not comparable to inputs from anyone. We can find middle ground with the flat earthers, but they're still wrong... We did the middle ground between Slave owners and abolitionists. That got us racial segregation which we see now was bad, because the "ideal middle ground" doesn't mean a good solution, it means what is the most neutral answer to shut people up. Which includes "polite discourse". If you're family is in an emergency, politely asking people to help isn't actually a good thing. There is distress and anger for very valid reasons. You should listen to the point not the delivery.
If you want actual discourse that makes you think and get new solutions, like what I did with the bathroom explanation. Listen to academics, researchers, activists, etc. They're the ones who are addressing those problems and you can actually get the pros/cons of issues with the diversity of thought to do actionable solutions for all. The slave owner wanted what was best for their bottom line and family, they didn't actually care about the enslaved people that had their whole lives destroyed. Conservatives do want the best... but you have to ask best for WHAT. It's most certainly not for everyone's well being. I would highly recommend watching this video to understand that point further ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html
@@PureKoor well put. I do agree that one should always go with the best decision, I just find that the best decision is rarely on one side or the other.
Its best to listen to everyone though, as all perspectives is needed to find the exact truth.
I say this agreeing with mixed bathrooms, Im not a conservative but I have also found myself clashing with more progressive groups as well.
I watched the video and stayed up for 30 minutes thinking and arguing to myself about the question, hah.
Yeah ideologically, conservatism, specifically the recent US type, doesn't seem to theoretically add or contribute anything to bettering convention spaces. On the other hand, I don't believe that's the discourse of the video. I mean, the title is not conservatism, It's specifically conservatives themselves that don't add anything to the fandom. This sentiment is seen as well in many of your replies to other people. What bothers me is that, if we continue the line of thought of “conservatives don't add anything to the fandom, they actively worsen it's state”, then it follows that we should get rid of them? Same as it's done with zoos and pdfs?
I mean, this conversation revolves around the idea of “contributing” to the fandom. But what's exactly is contribution? You've stated that consuming the media is not enough, that there's a distinction between “furries” and “anthro enjoyers”. (You've mentioned this stuff around your replies, it's okay if you don't recall it) So is contributing volunteering as con staff? Making art in all its forms? Not just commissioning drawings or fursuits? I'm asking a lot of questions because this genuinely intrigues me, sorry if it's overwhelming.
Lastly, I believe that, this conversation could have a better influence if its focus is shifted to a more general point of “bad actions made by bad people”. Why? Because the discourse around this seems to be that every conservative is problematic, that no matter how “good faith” they are, there's always going to be irreconcilable differences which will lead people in this fandom to be discriminated against and treated poorly. I mean, we can agree that those bad actions mainly revolve around racism, misogyny, homophobia, and the likes. Which always deserve a vigorous response to fight back. But, I believe these are not problems that arise solely or primarily from conservatives, and I feel that you're painting it in that way. Not every conservative is going to be fascist, nor every progressive is going to be free of prejudice.
With this, I mean to point out that these bad actions sadly occur within progressive circles as well. I've seen too many gay guys (who were progressive) display open disgust towards women. That often “Eww women” attitude. Same with queer folk showing disdain towards bisexuals. So, if this issue is more nuanced than “furry conservatives harming the public furry spaces” why display them as the only source of this issue, why not appeal to a broader callout? Though, call names and point fingers of course, I don't mean to downplay the role of conservative thinking in this.
Maybe I was too confrontational on this, sorry if that's the case, don't mean to come off as rude. Really well written video though! Genuinely had me thinking allot, prolly will watch more in the future!
You are correct. We should bar them from the fandom. I explain why in more detail here: ruclips.net/video/saXzXq3lXnM/видео.html
People contribute labour to the con staff, which a conservative can do cause like physically you can see it. But their presence in the long term overall is harmful and we'd be better suited to ask the thousands of other furries to volunteer their time. I've met PoC volunteers who don't volunteer anymore because the racist conservative on staff made them feel unsafe. We lose great volunteers and fandom members directly to conservatives even within the fandom ignoring how the overall conservative moment is and will affect the fandom in general.
Conservative ideology does product people who do bad actions. From reading history and speaking to the USA conservatives, they are inherently fascist, monarchist, or confederate and none of those are worth our time to pretend that their ideals are equal. They're not. Those people need to become better and more moral human beings.
I will make more videos explaining why in the future and will even discuss where leftist and dems fail too. But leftist, in fact my next video is about leftists being dumb haha. For the most part dems can do better. Conservatives never will.
they contribute batsh*t insane drama in this fandom that eventually someone will make a video about for me to listen to while drawing lol
Well some exceptions. But usually yeah that’s fair
I remember when the fandom wasnt as political as it is today...
Its really saddening
Now it gatekeeps anyone that isnt exactly like them
It was always political, you just didn't notice. That says a lot more about you then it does the fandom
@@PureKoorsounds like an excuse
from what I remember seeing and hearing the WHOLE time I was in the fandom... it was about escapism... it only became political recently...
Idk how old you are. I have a decent number of years within the community so I can confidently say, when I joined all those years ago it was still political but people were just much more willing to ignore it unless it was something more directly affecting the majority of the community such as gay rights.
It's fine to wanna have a place to relax, but you can't equate "a place to relax" with "an escape from life". You shouldn't be escaping from life, that's a problem in it of itself.
@@PureKoor I too have a decent number of years
You seem to just not be listening to what I'm saying
So escapism is bad even though the fandom was all about escapism... or maybe you don't know what escapism is...
The fandom as a whole was about escapism in the community
I never said all the time like your implying. Only in the community. Because of the common knowledge that politics just seems to Bring hatred
IE like how the fandom is today
Again, if you're trying to escape life there are more fundamental issues that need to be solved and your escapism shouldn't ignore the problems of others. You are not the only one with problems and ignoring said problems is bad actually. If everyone helps each other, there's no need to escape
The sad thing is, we need both liberal AND conservative POVs. Sometimes you need a conservative pov to say 'things are going well, so let's keep it going,' and sometimes you need a liberal pov to say 'things aren't going too great, maybe we should change things up.' Locking into either pov to the point of never wanting to hear from the other side is where the problems come in, but learning which pov you should approach any given situation with could take you a lifetime to figure out. 😮💨
You really don't. When conservatives said we needed racial segregation, they were just wrong. There were many debates about the issue during those many decades but with hindsight we can just clearly see it's wrong, because back then people knew it was wrong. It's just the racists won out for many complex reasons (watch this vid ruclips.net/video/j4kI2h3iotA/видео.html ). Meaning, for many situations there are ways to logically reason out how good an idea will be in the future, even if we don't have all the known factors. If you find the right solution, you can just implement the solution while still maintaining many different POVs
I do like how you directly antagonized the 'common sense' answer, because that's one that I hear a lot. When you ask conservatives to give specific examples, or directly explain what they mean by a generalization it's very common for them to give a "Well I know it when I see it" or a "It's self-evident" in order to evade the question. It's just like, if literally ANYONE doesn't know, then it's not self-evident. These are just things people say when they know that what they would actually say in answer to the question would sound monstrous and/or stupid so they don't wanna say it. The one that has come up a lot recently is "I'm under attack for my conservative beliefs!" which like, whether or not that's a reasonable objection depends entirely on what those beliefs are. When you say "my beliefs" that implies there is a list of specific beliefs that belong to that subset, and people are hesitant to enumerate that list because they know those beliefs suck and everyone would turn against them if they actually said them aloud.
Ya, it's very easy to catch conservatives on that point of you keep forcing them to explain the answer to you because you "don't understand"
Anybody can have a furry fetish. Even those Amish and Mennonite folk.
Boiling down the fandom to a mere fetish purposefully ignores all the deep interesting aspects that makes many become a furry. Aspects conservatives are opposed to such as equality of marriage, integration, and S.T.E.A.M.
@@PureKoor Many conservative furries are gay themselves.
I am furry but it's not a fetish.
They could use their oil money to buy more commissions I guess
I think the only thing I can think of is them making their own spaces to avoid the people they harrass😭
very true
Harass? You guys harras conservatives and wish death on them. And call them nazi's
I think the standard for what's conservative and what's progressive shifts within each political climate, and while we would typically think of "conservative" meaning a specific thing in the US climate, I think that in the furry fandom it should mean something different because there's entirely different norms to conserve.
I would say that "conservative" in a furry sense would be rather liberal, or even leftist by current US standards. That's because your current standard for a furry space and what type of people you can expect at them are considerably more progressive than what you would expect from a non furry space. Progressives would be the folks trying to expand that progressiveness further, obviously, but there are a lot of people who are content with the fandom as it is or might only want otherwise milquetoast conservative ideas, ideas folks like democrats want anyways.
So when you look at those furs that are trying to set the bar of a "conservative furry" to a Capital R Republican?
Yeah. They don't fit in this fandom. Not by a long shot. And nothing about their ideals specifically could add any value when they're built on trying to tear down what the rest of Furry stands for.
That is true. I do still see the Fandom as a subculture so even if we have a different Overton window, we are ultimately affected by the super culture. An actual conservative furry will form/has formed but to a degree most aren't gonna notice. Maybe the "cons need to be smaller" may spark a recongizeable movement for that but until then, conservatives furries will be the normal conservatives but... furry... which ya have no place here but they're still trying to enter haha
If they actually make a rule for "that" con: They will have a dress code for no latex suits, pup hoods, no harness, and no jeans for females.
Do CONSERVATIVES do something for the fandom, yes and absolutely and insinuating the opposite is rather degrading.
Do conservative IDEALS do something for the fandom? Aside from being opposed to accessible pornography (which you mentioned already in instilled but is still a conservative ideal being put into practice which therefore makes the answer yes)
I don't think so, nore does progressive ideas so this whole video seems somewhat needless.
Conservatives are a pretty degradated in both person and ideal ya. Basically everyone is opposed to completely free access to nsfw. /how/ it's restricted is the discussion here. You're being a bit reductive in your grouping here. My video is asking for specifics on what conservatives do, which is what I'd like help with. So your thinking is wrong on multiple fronts lol
@@PureKoor Of your question is what conservatives do then it's redundant, since conservatives are just a group of people that do what anyone else does which makes your notion and you in turn bigoted. And while everyone is opposed to free access to nsfw, it's particularly a conservative ideal. I could ask you the opposite and ask what progressives (or slightly more productively what progressive ideals-) do for the fandom.
@@PureKoorwe're degraded? Yet I am tired of going to cons with dudes peaking in the stalls? And guys openly talking about sex to minors? And wearing fetish gear around minors? Idc about gear and all, but leave the minors out of it!
They make art like any other furry. It's not hard to answer.
Also, there's far more atheist conservatives nowadays, so 4:40 is a moot point.
You're talking about the induvial, can you give me an example about how the politics of a conservative helps?
Also for furries is quite the mix! So even if there is less religious arguments, there still are those who are conservative who do make them. Given the USA as a whole is still very religious and furry is merely a SUBculture, it's still a sizable point. furscience.com/research-findings/demographics/1-8-spirituality/
Here in europe we have also some cons who are kind of conservative. One point is the no poodling rule, which is still highly debated by some more older furry circles. i'm kinda over that...
what I wanna know is why do we have politics in the furry fandom why not just enjoy being in it and doing what you love, then again thats me I'm dumb but I'm puzzled about this
Politics always been there. Like, there's a stereotype that furries are white male people. So a LOT of viewers will be surprised when their favorite artist isn't white nor male, which creates really akward or dangerous situations. Those situation come from the recent racial segregation that's still being enforced in places around the usa. Or even where women were barred from having a bank account a few decades ago so men were the marketed to for they had control over money. So a fandom that should be for everyone will have people who default to white men being the $1000s suit owners. The fandom should be enjoyed to the fullest, but we have to remember not everyone has had that opportunity to be ALLOWED to enjoy or participate in it. The politics had always been there, all someone like me is asking is to be more active in it so we actively get that fandom we enjoy for all. A first step would be to progress past the past that's stopped so many from performing their best, such as conservatives wishing for gender segregation which is a political norm, but similar to the racial segregation norm back in the day, that segregation was never ok
Eh? Given how there's a lot of queer, neurodivergent, etc people in the fandom, you can go only so far in apoliticallness before it becomes a political thing of itself - to be fair, you can't really avoid politicis in any gathering of people, as they always have at least a passive presence, but you can pretend it's not there.
It's harder to pretend when someone believes "trans people bad" and if you do pretend, then you are effectively supporting that belief by welcoming it.
It's the n4z1 bar problem: don't kick out bad people and your bar will become a bar for bad people as bad people are normalized and push out the rest
don't we have unisex toilets anyways? those are practically the same as the gender neutral restroom. unisex is just the traditional name and i bet theres plenty of convention centres with those.
the furry fandom is probably 90% progressive anyways, so conservatives will statistically be contributing less to the fandom than progressives.
We have unisex toilets in the same way the north had freed slaves. A lot of laws, norms, and building designs makes it to where separate bathrooms are what you will expect to find while unisex bathrooms are a nicety. We don't need to desegregate some bathrooms at some cons, we need to desegregate ALL bathrooms which luckily furries are one group helping to make a reality.
Personally I think conservatives are net negative but from the conservatives in this comment section, they can't even say what they're contributing lol
I’m 3 years into the fandom and my experience has been, meh 🤷🏽♂️.The LGBTQ community is non of my issue other than it’s enforcing its beliefs, it feels like a regulation for everyone to follow.
From the three cons I have been to, I haven’t seen much pup gear, etc. other than a man in a diaper.
But that’s all.
Not sure what you mean by "enforcing its beliefs/regulation for everyone to follow"
@@PureKoor Your RUclips title says enough
@@Pit-d5u Still not sure what you're trying to imply
@@Pit-d5u Someone telling you their preferred pronouns isn't "enforcing their beliefs"
@@unknownuser5895 I can respect the pronoun stuff, do you.
Extremely amazing video koor, it's a lot to take in 😅 I can kinda understand some stuff
Thank you! I'm glad you consider it so!
for starters you could actually talk to conservative furries instead of painting a picture of what their ideologies and beliefs firsthand instead of going off your established ideas about them you'd be surprised how much people can land in a grey area. Not everything is black and white and I'm tired of seeing people both on the left and right being portrayed as nothing less of what the other already thinks.
I have talked to them and many others. Not sure why you're assuming people don't really to each other. Taking too them makes me Sure I don't want conservatives in the Fandom lol
As a person who has been with conservative furries for 10 years. They are all awful antisocial drama-obsessed people who do nothing but cry about "degeneracy" (while engaging in it themselves) as they watch cringe compilations.
It's really telling that no conservative here states that they want to improve or be better. They instead stubbornly stick to their ignorant worldview since they think they're superior to everyone.
@@PureKoormaybe it’s because of how Fascist the furry fandom is when it comes to conservatives let alone us centrists lmao
i- wouldnt call it fascism
fascism is built of ideas such as racism, ableism and homophobia
people cant stop being black. people cant suddenly become entirely able. people cant stop being gay (no matter how much conversion therapy theyre put through)
thing is- people can change ideologies. people DO change ideologies.
racism only a century ago was not only normal, but expected. now, id say most people agree that its bad.
Conservatives have never once mistreated me. I've run out of fingers to count on when it comes to how many liberals have mistreated me. I'm black and gay. I'm a registered unaffiliated and people such have you, with videos such as these, have pushed me to take a great liking of the 'other' side, the side I view as the sane party. I'll straight up tell you, alienating people, in this particular case, furries, will never work in your favor, as you're seeing in real time. Thank you for showing me right from wrong. I go against the grain and I'm not afraid to do so. Win or loose, I'm proud to vote Trump for 2024.
You're a silly billy then lol. You can be alienated for being a raider
@@PureKoor hard coping
Don't know how you really feel that way, but my conservatives and ignorant "liberals" close ones all have had me noticed how I'm completely unseen at the end of the day. Dismiss all fracturing things and problems just to keep the "space" unconfronting is not at all the gestures of compassions.
Meanwhile being with my passionate friends, we could refuse to look at each other some day and totally make it up or have a deal in the next.
Dumbasses will be dumbasses no matter the other stance they have. You're just thinking grass is green on another side & not try to find better people, better communication.
That, and giving in to toxic positivity, surface politeness can only slip slowly into apathy, enabling, compliance in the face of total wrong treatment (to put it lightly).
A serious answer to your question is keeping politics out is the best option since both sides can be equally toxic.
There's already politics in there such as the bathrooms. Given conservative ideology likes hierarchies, you can't really leave out how people are organized for cons
@@PureKoor I'd also argue that saying "keep politics out" is also extremely detrimental as it leaves a large space for bigotry to fester.
@MajatekYT Conservative politics should be only kept out because it is incongruent with any fansom.
@@MajatekYTSo where are you supposed to go or do for fun when one doesn't want to participate in politics? Because not everyone is politically radicalized and allows politics to drive everything they do.
I think the important thing to remember is that conservative furries add their own unique presence to our community. This happens regardless of political/social affiliation. But if you mean "what does the philosophy of conservatism bring to the furry community?" then I agree: very little.
Mind you, you used to be able to find Republicans who agreed with LGBTQIA rights (thinking back to Barry Goldwater's run for the US Presidency in 1964). He was a bit scary in terms of libertarian, unfettered capitalism but he also walked the walk as regards queer folk and their ability to serve in the military. I believe he coined the phrase, "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight."
I believe Arnold Schwarzenegger also favored full LGBTQIA equity in society while being a conservative. I may be mis-remembering though.
Anyway, TL;DR: the political philosophy and stance of social conservatism doesn't add anything to the community ... it only tends to subtract by opposing new ideas and practices that reflect change over time and the ability to accommodate folks who want to join us all in this strange, furry fandom.
I would argue that unique presence is bad the moment relationships become deeper than surface level. But yes, I do mean like practical policies that fit within conservative platforms, practical usage, or philosophy as a group. Induvial can have better beliefs than the group, but groups form because a majority will agree and propagate those agreed ideas. Can even today you can find many republicans that are tolerant of LGBT+ folk but just want to hide them which is just second class citizenship aka doing better than the full bigot but still very much a bigot . I would not take outliers as meaning the group represents that idea.
i get it, politics run the world, but what's the point of bringing politics into a hobby. Please don't split a mere hobby into like how politics is. You're either a friend and think like me or think anything else then you agree with these and are pure evil kinda mood. If you want to hear the truth, both sides are needed everywhere, in a balance, but none are needed in this fandom. And there shouldn't be such things as conservative and progressive con experience. No ideology would do good in this fandom unless you do not wish the fandom to be what it proudly calls itself as. We should avoid praising and hating on ideologies inside the furry fandom unless they're unbiasedly bad
Getting more views is really the only point
It's already been political, it's really a matter of how much you engage actively in it or who will do it for you. The first furry cons were very politically charged by just accepting lgbt+ folk. It's normalized now because people put in the work for it to be so. Thus, you need good ideas not both sides. Sometimes it really is a 2+2=4 situation. Slave owners and abolitionists got a middle ground via racial segregation and second class citizenship for non-white people, which we today see as bad because although there were two sides, abolitionists had the correct answer. You could say that's obvious but this country had a war because it WASN'T obvious to everyone. The 'unbiasedly bad" ideologies of today were the debated normal opinions you had to be civil about. We don't need cons to be extreme political experiences, but you do need to be aware of what's happening and why to enact change to make people happy and well off
Furries tend to get more views for doing the "uwu nya here's a furry meme compilation" thing. Changing thought so we get better fandom happenings is the main goal here, views are a bonus!
You miss a few points in your discussion, but I agree with one thing, a furry convention that is political is just dumb, no matter which political side it's on. IF there is going to be any difference of how a political con is run, I'd argue it's less about what the rules are, and more about how rules would be enforced. Because really, there is basically no run differences between a left or right furry cons. Which is dumb because rule enforcement can be decided without association to any political party.
The only political view that would change any rule would be the bathrooms. BUT sometimes that's not even a political choice, when I went to a Yugioh tournament (ironically held at the same convention as MFF) the bathrooms were merged. When you have three thousand people, and roughly 90% of them are guys, it makes no sense to have separate bathrooms when one will be used 90% more than the other.
When it comes to topics like pup hoods, according to my own views from the rancid pool that is Twitter, I've only seen arguments for banning pup hoods from people that are leftwing. Literally 100% rate from people that identify or agree with progressive topics. Also these people, according to their questionably accurate Twitter profiles, are almost always under 21. From my own experience I actually never seen a single person that associates with conservative views be against pup hoods.
To my experience puphoods at cons are less a political thing; rather stemming from dumb kids online trying to pathetically portray themselves as protecting the innocent righteous heroes. Seriously, I've seen more questionably aged 'adults' on Twitter trying to protect kids more than anyone that is 30+ that might actually have growing kids.
In my opinion conventions like this is able to become a thought, let alone become a real thing, is because of intolerance. Furries don't feel safe sharing their beliefs, politics, economics, religion, etc. I'd argue, while the amount of intolerant furries is very low, but the amount of people they affect is high. I've personally seen someone Tweet out "If you are friends with this person, you are not friends with me. I am not going to be nice to anyone that treats that other person nice." The amount of people shockingly okay with it, and no one bashing such mentality, was terrifying. I've been called a "traitor to gay people" saying I do not like the look of the LBGTQIA+ flag. Having an opinion, to some people, is a crime.
It saddens me, but not surprises me, that a pro-conservative furry convention exists or would exist. I think nearly any person with an intelligence score above 2 can agree it's dumb, but it's existence, is not without its warrant.
It would be the guy with a history of pulling the classic conservative card of falsely accusing people of being predators claiming "it's not the conservatives" holding the backwards beliefs on the puphood matter.
I mean you kinda are self reporting yourself here
@@BalooDumptruck Okay.
Warm bodies I guess? But that’s not unique.
Prob the only thing I disagree with is I'm still not comfortable with pup hoods being worn publicly for two reasons:
1. It enforces the idea that the Furry Fandom is mainly a fetish group instead of a general fandom for anthropomorphic characters.
2. It's a really obvious public display of someone's fetish, and that's just uncomfortable to everyone around who doesn't share that fetish.
That's not to say I don't appreciate how open people in the fandom are to sex-talk, but it feels like it takes away from the whole idea of this all being about the concept of walking-talking animal creatures, and just diminishes it all into a convenient vehicle for people's kinks.
I made a video about pup hoods that addresses your 2nd point which you can find here ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html
For the 1st point, fursuits use to enforce (and still can) the idea that furries are a fetish group. When people learned why furries dressed up the way they do, people recognized it's not a fetish. It CAN be, but is not inherently. Same for pup hoods. Even if outsiders only think of pup hoods as a fetish item, you don't have to. When someone asks, you can just tell them it's a mask people wear for many reasons including that anomality which helps people feel more open to being themselves like a fursuit head. Also it costs WAY less and is more portable than a fursuit head.
I think in the definitions of today's conservatives, conservative furries do nothing for the furry fandom although one "conservative" ideal that I personally have is in the form of Luddism (Being skeptical or opposed to new technology)(of course with reason) and protecting artisans and artists alike, especially in a world of Algorithmically Generated Images that I feel endanger artists like myself, I believe algorithms can aid us AS A TOOL but in the current state of affairs with those blinded by dollar signs at the forefront we must put an end to it, or at least stand our ground against it until we can be sure that this technology is used for good.
I'm curious if you have watched Koor's video on AI. I'd also argue that supporting artists and small businesses isn't an inherently conservative view. AI imagery is only possible because of large corporations throwing massive bags of money around (skirting morality and legality) as they look to reduce reliance on human labor, aka "free market".
@@ApfelSkai Yea that's why I say conservative with very heavy quotations, I don't necessarily see Luddism and supporting small businesses as such, especially since I've seen more fringe right-wingers embracing the "AI revolution" for the worse, everything from propaganda, to cost cuts, to intentionally flawed algorithms that heavily discriminate against minorities I fear, but I digress
I've seen their video on Algorithmically-Generated images if you're wondering
Conservative furries are good for drama, content, and entertainment. :3
I Think Everyone Regardless Of Their Political Views Should Be Welcomed In This Fandom
Hypothetical, Say you meet a slave owner who wants to join the furry fandom, would you feel comfortable welcoming them in? If yes, then what about a person who voted and encouraged people towards racial segregation who are still alive today? If yes still, what makes you comfortable with these people? Cause if your everyone includes litterally everyone, you're gonna cause harm
@@PureKoorfor starters, pretty sure slavery was abolished decades ago... and second, are you really comparing conservatives to slave owners?
Im conservative, and no one has a problem with me, because I'm not extreme. But you are an extreme leftist, who right now is bashing on another ideology, while claiming to be inclusive. It's so hypocritical 💀
@Gnaw_YT It's a hypothetical to describe how conservatives go out of their way to hurt or ostracize minorities with their politics. Bathroom segregation is one such example, it might not mean anything if you're cis but it is meaningful to people who are trans.
@kloa4219 I understand it's hypothetical, but it's not a very good example. You are using a hypothetical question to compare how someone's political views "attack minorities", and literal slavery, which everyone today agrees is wrong (besides idiotic 12 year olds ofc lol). One just wants you to use a proper restroom, and the other had people of color working till they die of dehydration. You're not gonna die because you can't pretend you are something different.
And on the whole bathroom thing... gender neutral bathrooms are acceptable, due to the reason given in the video, which had nothing to do with actual gender.
I would rather not get into a whole separate debate over transitions, but rest rooms are designed and segregated to specific genders FOR A REASON.
For example, a woman can not use a urinal like a man can, for obvious reasons. Just because you "feel" like a man doesn't mean you are one, that's just reality. If your argument is that we shouldn't accept reality, then don't even bother trying to argue over it.
@kloa4219 but I will say, there are some horrible people out there. Really any extremist politician is a problem, as shown throughout history. I don't agree with alot of the things some conservatives do.
Awesome video. I'm in between of things because I am still new to the fandom.
Thank you! Welcome to the fandom, I hope you've been enjoy your furry times!
ive been reading the comments for a good 30 minutes and the amount of arguing is insane like its kinda crazy how someone really just said people that share certain beliefs do not have any value of contribution into a fandom(and you just make art and add value that way?) . and lowkey some of yall need to touch some grass and spend some time w ur family cuz ive seen so many paragraphs omgg. cant people contibute do a fandom by simply sharing the same hobby? you can bring politics into anything if you try hard enough atp... also like why r u using slave owners me no own slaves..... real qs is would you let someone in the fandom that simply believes that the bathrooms should be segregated based on gender? i dont think anyone does anymore as that was a long time ago.. cant someone just put a suit on and like hangout ?? and the bathrooms?????? instead of trying to get gender this n that they gotta make em actually clean cuz public bathrooms are nastyyyyy.. no gender using that
Being a consumer and being a contributors are very different things. Sharing a hobby is good but when one's beliefs are detrimental to said hobby, then it's not really sharing at that point
Slave owners are a good example for the USA given many problems still stem from our society ignoring that problem. The USA still has segregated bathrooms coded into building plans and general laws. So long time ago is every second of your present existence xD. Dirty bathrooms are a real problem that needs solved though ya haha
You made fun of a cancer patient dying from cancer.
@@DreadnoughtHvor I said a fascist was a bad person after being randomly tagged by a user in a months old thread
@@PureKoor he wasn't a fascist, he was libertarian and you just like calling people fascists. You attacked a guy who died from cancer and compared him to Hitler when he never once interacted with you and you didn't know who he was. You're a garbage human, and I hope your harassment videos and harmful rhetoric are rightfully taken down.
@@DreadnoughtHvor"Libertarian" nowadays is just a synonym for "Nazi sympathizer". A lot of fascists hide under that tag to avoid backlash
Well, the small amount of conversation this video made did nothing if confirm the hypothesis and the response from those that this is about provides content for a sequel video due to how many tried manipulative DARVO tactics, self-victimisation, and "no you're a fascist" replies. Perhaps the biggest irony of the "no you're a fascist" replies made in reflex is that nobody called anyone a fascist, and yet that was the immediate defence that some made. That's beyond a guilty conscience and it shows just exactly who these types harbour and what some even are.
Ya. Although it's not a guilty conscience it's more complex than that. I'll make future videos on the topic just cause it intertwines with a lot of fandom topics
I've actually recorded audio along side that video which will talk about the middle ground cons referred to in the comments.
So you'll probably see more of your hypothesis become a reality. Especially when I finish recording my main video about giving certain sandwiches to fascists lol
@@PureKoor That's fair!
Conservatives do contribute to the fandom, but it is in the most negative way possible to the point where everything improves once they leave. Every conservative I met was a mean-spirited hateful individual who did everything they could to make everyone around them miserable and uncomfortable.
People say that politics are irrelevant like ice cream flavors, but I disagree. What usually happens is that furry conservatives try their hardest to impress non-furry conservatives and Christians who shame them for being weird. As a result, many of them try to look better than others by harassing or bullying people "weirder" than them.
In contrast, non-furry leftists/liberals don't care or are encouraging of people more weird than them. As a result, left-leaning furries don't have that toxic dynamic. They ostracize conservatives not because they want to be mean, but because conservatives are mean to others.
When it comes to politics, furry is more compatible with left-wing ideology than right-wing ideology.
very true
Honestly, I not a conservative enough to well, say what they can contribute.
Other that their tendency to stay the same (yes, it is controlling, but so are any policies, with exception anarchy, but we know that does not work well) making "move fast and crash things" less of a thing.
True that in one said that means some much needed changes and reforms take ages to do (why public bathrooms are so easy to break into?) or addressing other problems, because "must keep things the way they are" yet I gonna make one single point in their favour.
They do red team, that is they true to find way and counter points to new adies, no matter how good or bad they are, and that is good because it means those ideas can only get better due being adjusted to address some of those counter points.
Sure, a lot of the time is not even great counter points, one example being a swimming team locker not feeling comfortable with a transwoman body and saying this should be the case.
When that could be solved by making so locker have some level of privacy, so people do not have to see each other naked (sorry homosexuals).
Or that we could throw the gender out of classifications and use body weight and muscle mass to make categories in sports, like we kinda already do?
BTW, got that Idea after a woman who got called TERF pointed out that gender is just used to make the competition more closer and thus fair and as result interesting, while also pointing out that Transwoman may have a clear advantage.
In any case, I do not see yet a good reason to kick them out, sure they slow pace or straight up resistance to changed in culture is a drag on progress, however... fast changes in direction may not be so good when the situation is not dire.
So, taking the question seriously, I think we'd first have to define "conservative values" vs. "progressive values."
From my perspective, modern mainstream conservatism brings almost nothing to the table. It's reactionary, bigoted, and clawing desperately at the last shreds of relevance and power.
But, there are values, principles and ideas that have traditionally been considered "conservative" that do arguably have merit. Some people might consider "save your overt kinks and sexual activities for the bedroom and other designated adult spaces" to be a more conservative mandate, but I think most people would actually agree it's a good rule to implement for most spaces and gatherings.
Now, I don't think you have to be a flaming Leftist to be a good person or a valued member of the fandom, as there are many perfectly fine furs who happen to be political moderates, independents, libertarians, or more "old-fashioned" (but not bigoted or conspiracy-brained) conservatives. However, I feel very strongly that being able to tolerate, accept, and play well with others broadly should be considered an absolute requirement to participate in this fandom, so bigots and reactionaries should be shown the door without hesitation.
I made a video about the "save your overt kinks and sexual activities for the bedroom" in this video ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html . Only a very fringe amount of people (who majority are people no one likes for goods reason) want the do in front of everyone casually. However, what is a kink or seen as sexual activity for the bed has changed over time. Thus we do need to be clearer about what we deem to be part of that good rule. Which I have not seen conservatives really have the ability to do. That's a trend across all these values
I'm still wondering explicitly what a conservative policy would be that helps the fandom. Cause ya you don't have to be a flaming leftist to be a good or valued person. However, if an ancap or old fashioned conservatives is nice at the furry event then votes/encourages/pays people to do horrific stuff, then the fandom really has no defense against that. It's why bigoted reactionary folks can still have large audiences. I would seem better to point out the flaws they have, ensure people know those flaws, then have those folk feel unwelcomed and leave
The fact is, they don't do nothing, they actively make it worse. Like you said, the point of conservatism is to backtrack. It's a purely emotional perspective coming from a fear of change, and there is a lot of research to back this up. It's also why they tend to try to make it look as if leftists are overly emotional because they need to try to even out the playing field. However, I actually think a different mindset is becoming increasingly more dangerous, solely because of its increasing prevalence. Absolute centrism. It is nothing but bystander syndrome. There are a lot of people who say things such as "people need to keep politics out of the fandom" or "people have a right to believe whatever they want." The fact is, politics is everywhere and everything. It affects us all deeply. Why would we not want to talk about it, especially when one side would see our complete destruction with nothing but ignorance as the reason? People have a right to believe what they want, but they do not have the right to not be criticized for their ignorance. In the US, many seem to have this idea that freedom of speech means freedom from consequence, but that is not true. Those who say that freedom of speech is under attack because people get criticized for their actions are the real threat. They are the ones that want to limit the freedom to speak out, and that is the most important freedom of all, and it is a founding idea in this country. Those who want to silence political conversation are those who want to protect the unreasonable and the unjust from criticism. Of course there will be discourse and drama. But that isn't a bad thing when that "drama" is calling out a neo-nazi or a racist. Rather than try to limit discourse, let's try to direct it to those that deserve criticism. Stand up for what you believe in. If you get criticism, try to understand why rather than act as if criticism is a violation of your rights. If the criticism is unreasonable you can always criticize them back. There is nothing inherently wrong with discourse. There is something very wrong and dangerous when others want to shut down discourse about themselves. Speak out. Don't shut up. Let the world hear your words.
P.S.
You're cute UwU
P.P.S.
You should totally make a discord if you don't already have one. Would love to chat or play some games if you were ever down. No pressure tho :)
You're argument is nothing more than a strawman.
@@gorenoisebulldozer140 How so? I really don't know if you understand what a strawman is. Can you point to any examples in which I am strawmanning?
@@CodeyBlackJack You call the conservative position a purely emotional perspective ignoring any legitimate criticisms they might have on top of calling them ignorant. Then you proceed to make baseless accusations against all conservatives that don't apply to all conservatives.
Very true
thanks uwu
I do have a discord but the introvert me doesn't actively talk in it that much haha. I'll eventually try to restructure it so it's easier to talk on for me/set up stuff
I would highly recommend the alt right playbook series to see how it's true that conservatism is basically an emotional perspective OR a deeply hierarchical mess. here's the video about conservatism from innuendo studios ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html
Nothing but useless hate and bigotry that only serves to contradict their logic and drive so many people towards misery
(Edit: Sorry If my original comment came across as if I was excited for that, I'm an enby myself and I would never want anyone to suffer the vile words and noxius hate that the conservatives of the fandom put out.)
You're excited for hate and bigotry? That's a bit weird xD
@@PureKoor Nonono... I meant that they contribute nothing to the fandom but that, believe me, I hate that that happens...
I'm sorry if it came across like that, believe me, i'm the farthest thing from a confurvative.
@@Undocumented.CASE.STUDY.12096 oh you're fine haha, In the context of some other comments I got I read it straight xD
I think the same points you demonstrated can be applied to liberals. In my country bringing up political stuff is seen as very close minded and disrespectful, but in the US it seems way too invasive on anything and must be brought up for some annoying reason. The thing is in both situations is just a subculture meeting (Furry con), and if you apply politics to it, it's just virtue signaling. The main thing is to have normal ground rules for the sake of people to enjoy animal-anthropomorphic content, if a political agenda is being pushed, then its main objective is being pushed aside and it ruins it for everyone.
Now having rules for pup gear and those weird... skin suits? Well it's just censorship which it is already practiced in liberal places, it's not just a conservative thing, they just make a correct space where NSFW stuff can be, but the drama comes when the pup stuff wants to be in the SFW area as well, and it's not only pup stuff but BDSM equipment as well on the fursuits, and I think liberals tend to be more okay with it, but I think it's more a control related to age restriction, that's why 21+ cons are doing better and with less trouble, and in there the political stance is less seen because the main discourse in all ages cons is NSFW stuff.
I'd say political agendas pushing inside of the fandom have no point in being there for both sides.
The question can be applied to any group but like I mentioned in the video, liberals are fine with neutral bathrooms which is a political action but one that is beneficial and makes people feel safer thus is good to do. Politics/governance is about the interactions between different people, so the discussion can be brought up under different names but yes, it is all about how humans work together when allocated shared resources.
I made a video about the puphood discourse because said discourse was a thing before furries even formed ➡ ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html
Calling that discussion virtue signaling ignores how past people (some who are still live today) were penalized for wanting to wear shorts or beach wear. Those clothes types being more acceptable was beneficial for all. There still many modern issues in the fandom that are rooted in really horrific bits of history. I discussed that a bit in my how to come up with ideas video ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html
I'd ask how do you both sides segregation? There are furries(a very small amount) who want segregation of gender and race. If progressive people are pushing for everyone to be included, and the other side is conserving the status quo(where certain groups don't feel safe) while pushing for older laws that were used during USA open segregation... would you still say there's no point for both sides? Cause that's what I'm asking when discussing "what do conservative furries contribute". How can PoC have fun liking silly animal people if they're rejected from participating unless they accept having horrible states casually stated to them
@@PureKoor The virtue signaling problem can applied to both sides, in the end is just humans trying to figure things out, and yes, things change over time, like skirts or shorts being accepted, holding hands with the same sex was considered homoerotic in some places, but when it comes to drawing the line, it will be a forever human problem, or in other words morals will always have trouble with rulings, which can be a political field. I just think that we can draw lines, make rules without trying to be too moralist and too political of the current country problems, going on either extreme side can be annoying.
I have to admit I forgot to add the bathroom discourse, and this is what I can add: While a lot of it can be solved with neutral bathrooms, and I think the liberal point of view is the most peaceful option, learning to understand the difference between sexes can be good too, and if gender is taking its place; learning to understand gender can also give healthy mental gymnastics in bathroom segregation, but what I just shared isn't related to the arguments conservatives twist the moral views, I'm just saying both ways of bathroom strategies have their pros without political views, the problem is that the political view will twist these views just to go in opposition of each other, which then becomes annoying, you see? It isn't just trying to find good rulings, but also going against the other group, it's literal intent of competition against the other side, and that's why I think a political view just ruins everything, specially in the US because they're forced into 2 sides, instead of multiple ones like in other countries, they're all forced to fight the other way of thinking, it's the agenda that punishes human decision to make rules in certain way. Virtue signaling is "I do morals better than others", when in reality we all struggle with morals and we shouldn't go against others, we should be helping each other.
I just think both sides don't really bring anything nice to not only the fandom, but any human, you brought up the radical end of conservatives, but the radical end of liberals do exactly the same, and it's the same conclusion you brought up, it's people wanting to control people, that's the mean part of radical politics, and the clean cut of two sides in the US just makes it worse.
But yes, as of today, the flexible, or I'd even say central liberals are doing the best work on the furry fandom decisions, and those cons which were conservative focused are horrible.
It's worth remembering that furry is an international phenomenon. Stuff like foreign policy, racism, and socio-economics directly impact people in the fandom at a greater degree than it would in a single region. When the US and other countries put sanctions on Russia, it impacted the ability for many artists (especially queer ones) to make a living. Brexit made owning a small business in the UK more challenging.
Whether something is considered sexually charged versus sexually explicit is also down to local/regional laws and culture. Some places think a bikini is overly sexual, some places think a dress above your ankles is overly sexual, and some people think exposed breasts aren't sexual at all. What is the norm vs. what people think is a healthier status-quo to push for is also going to be present in places with diverse thought.
That is to say that being aware of or discussing "political stuff" is not always virtue signaling, because often it does directly impact someone's life and the people around them.
It baffles me that there are conservative furries as if non fur conservatives would accept them for being a furry
Like you hate on a minority while being an outcast in the traditional lifestyle they try to enforce
That's a complex issue that'll eventually be a future video cause it's interesting to talk about haha
(As a socialist/lib,)I don't have any problems with normal conservatives but the rise of far-right ideals is a very concerning thing.
I would highly recommend this video to learn why you should have many problems with normal conservatives as a socialist ruclips.net/video/agzNANfNlTs/видео.html . As a lib that's less of an issue because both groups love capitalisms. But being that you're anti-capitalist, that should make a difference.
@@PureKoor I don't agree with their politics but I'm not gonna start telling them how wrong they are everytime I encounter them irl. I'll gladly speak my beliefs if someone asks though.
@@NerevarineKing You shouldn't do that every time you encounter them irl only cause that's not effective for change. However sometimes you should even without being prompted because there are topics that need to be discussed more from econ to social issues.
@@PureKoor There's only so much you can do with fossils stuck in their own ways
Social pressure is a pretty powerful tool
Conservatism is a spectrum. You can be and ultraconservative extremist and advocate for death penalty, segregation and whatnot. This is NOT good for the furry fandom. On the other hand, "soft" (or mild) national conservatives (such as the Isamaa party) would make it easier for us to form lasting bonds (also known as family) in the fandom and find eachother by geography, while also bringing better cultural understanding to the fandom.
As an atheist and recent FWA goer, trying to force Christianity into the fandom is not gonna bring many together. It'll bring some together but not a lot. Personally I'll be working to ensure theistic nationalistic conservatism is a fringe ideology in the fandom
Well- I think right off the bat. Do sub groups within a fandom need to directly produce content for the fandom? Like say for instance... maybe the star wars or D&D population? Though your main question for the comments was "do they contribute anything to the furry fandom?" Which Honestly objectively they do-
But what they contribute to the fandom is not positive or promoting of growth- The furry fandom from it's inception was from people going against the grind of tradition and societal/hetero-norms. Talk among each other and establishing friend groups that grew into parties and clubs with more and more likeminded people gathering together to make create a safe space to be themselves fully. I always beg the question with even the base concept of conservatives outside of the furry fandom to American politics on What exactly are they trying to Conserve to? The Furry fandom is relatively speaking just coming into it's maturity in a sense and hasn't had enough time passed to pin point a golden era. Going back in time to smaller meets only means less accountability and more protection to bad actors in the fandom PDF-filiers and Zoo-files that have and continue to tarnish the fandoms branding.
You make a very good point
Personally, I don't think anyone needs to produce content, I do think a furry needs to participate in the fandom's happenings though. Contributions can be just making friends and having fun. Keeping the furry fandom alive. So I generally frame contribution as positive outcomes only. You are correct that conservatives contribute to the fandom just negatively haha
Conservative here, and I was kind of surprised that your emphasis was on how a con would be run differently if conservatives were running it. I don't know anything about how to run a con, so I can't really speak to that. I don't really see a problem with gender-neutral bathrooms, either, as long as women's rooms and men's rooms are available for those who think they need them.
What I'm aiming to contribute to the fandom is a new type of headpiece that I'm experimenting with; it's intended to create more visibility and breatheability for the wearer---though that innovation has nothing to do with my political leanings.
Honestly, I'm sick of liberals assuming the worst of every conservative's intentions, and assuming the worst of conservative morals and goals. Maybe all the conservatives that your news media and social media show you are full of bigotry and hatred, but that has a lot to do with the fact that the news media wants you afraid, and social media wants you outraged. The news makes more profit when their audience is afraid, and social media makes more profit when their users are outraged, so they take the worst of the worst of whoever _isn't_ in your identity-group, take it out of context, sometimes even make some things up outright, and present it to their audience, hoping their audience assumes everyone in this it-is-not-me-group is like that, and is therefore a reason to be afraid and outraged.
If I allowed my perception of the left to be similarly colored by my social media and news media, then I might as well say the left is all about the particular flavor of bigotry that the right calls "wokeness". What we call "wokeness" isn't actually about activism to help minorities; just the opposite, in fact: a criticism of wokeness that's becoming more common on the right is that wokeness isn't actually making anything better for minorities, is in fact making things worse, and is merely virtue-signaling. But the biggest reason we conservatives don't like what we call "wokeness" is because what we call "wokeness" is an active attempt to legitimize racial hatred, as long as that hatred is directed against whites.
Let me repeat this for emphasis: the average conservative views racial hatred as evil, and the average conservative views activism that ends up doing more harm than good for minorities to be a serious problem.
The average conservative isn't what you see in your social media or on your news, any more than the average liberal is what I see on my social media or my news: I am aware that most people who lean left politically are as just against this legitimization of anti-white hatred as the right is, and that it's the left's fringe that actually _likes_ anti-white racism and anti-white hatred (while refusing to _call_ it either of those things, of course), and that this fringe simply gets the most attention in conservative news media and social media feeds.
The question was what would a conservative con improve. You said you wouldn’t know what it would do differently then went on a passionate rant for 4 paragraphs.
@@acoolpieceoflettuce2557 And I didn't even talk about concealed carry, either. I thought about doing so; I really did.
@@longWriter if you think that would make a conservative con better why the hell didn’t you add it. That was the literal question he was asking, it sounds like you aren’t very passionate about that topic if you didn’t include it but included 4 paragraphs of filler.
@@acoolpieceoflettuce2557 In retrospect, I should've. It's added security.
@@longWriter added security specifically for furcons or in general?
Short answer: NO
Long answer: NNNNOOOOOOO
You get upset at furries for being different, congratulations.
Incorrect. I say fascist are bad and weirdly conservatives get offended, curious
@@PureKoor conservatives get offended when called a fascist as anyone gets offended when called a fascist.
I don't get offended when called a fascist because I know it's the wrong term lol
@@PureKoor and? Just because you call someone a fascist doesn't mean they are one.
@@French-Bread What's your goal here?
I personally believe that politics shouldn't have a place in the furry fandom. Why bring one of the most hot topics of debate into a community centralized about accepting people for who they are? Save your political beliefs for the elections and remember that; "It's not what your country can do for you, it's what you can do for your country."
Also, I may not agree with everything in this video, the main one being the bathrooms (I am used to Male/Female bathrooms and the idea of a Gender-Neutral bathroom kinda just rubs me the wrong way) but I acknowledge your points and they are indeed valid. But when it comes down to it, I would still choose the Male bathroom instead of the Gender-Neutral one as that is what I would be the most comfortable in and feel the most safe in. (But, then again, I have never felt safe in public restrooms due to numerous "incidents" in highschool.)
Politics is the interaction between people. Beyond that a fandom around the humanization of non-human creatures/objects would touch on it more, institutions like conventions are already very political. We just normalized a lot of it to think of it as not being such. So you can engage in it actively or let others do it for you, there's not really another option there.
Bathrooms are a good example, we should be ensuring bathrooms are safe at all times no matter the gender. That requires solutions that aren't just "the genders can't be together" which requires progressives ideologies to do so because the only idea conservatives have is to keep them the same. It's fine to use male bathrooms if that makes you the most comfortable, but we should ask deeper underlying questions as to why you feel that's true to see if we can alleviate those woes
What good does a conservative convention do for the fandom? A nice block list? A list of who to avoid?
A conservative con would separate them from normal people
They don't like each other though. Unless they're extremist, they need normal people which is why many conservative orgs radicalize into cults or fizzle out
@@PureKoor Oh yeah, didn't account the fact that they're misserable to be around
"Conservatives pretend to care about"
I'm in full agreement with you when it comes to gender neutral bathrooms. How ever, assuming the worst about the motives of the group you're criticizing and dismissing their words as excuses and the people themselves as mere bigots is simply counter-productive. As a european, I'm quite fed up with the american political infighting infecting the fandom, and making it even more toxic than usual.
The USA was formed from the old world folk coming here. Some of the problems here arer exports from folk over the pond. A lot of furry fandom stuff started in the USA and given it's a subculture of the average culture, that infighting has always been here. People can be more visibly shouty via the current platforms but SOME furry conservative thinking PoC are inferior due to their parents teaching the "benefits" of being pro-jim crow is sadly a norm from when I entered the fandom. Hopefully you can understand that someone being curious as they try to segregate you can have all the nicest motivates in the world while clearly doing something deeply harmful
I got my talking points for this video by directly listening to or talking to furry conservatives specifically, I'm just not naming them cause I don't want to platform them. This does mean I'm still very open to hearing how conservative ideologies from anywhere is helpful in improving the fandom. Complaining that USA furries in the USA want to be treated with respect doesn't seem like a big ask AND it doesn't address the question in the video
Nah conservatives have made it pretty clear what their motives are they do NOT care about SA
This video seems very attack based/straw man, (which would push conservative furries away from your video and therefore you wont get an answer to your question).... but I also can't find flaws with your video (either because I'm uneducated about conservatives or that I'm having trouble thinking up an answer to your question).
To potentially add something, taking from what some of the comments have said, I think on a scale of Left and right, furries were sort of created more built on ideologies on the left. so thats where they sort of started and established themselves. Some furry ideals might veer as far as centrist, but I don't think they will ever be in the realm of conservative as that won't mesh with where furries established themselves. Fortunately or Unfortunately, conservative furries are then constantly pushed out or not made welcome in the fandom, so since they don't feel comfortable, I don't think they really have the space to contribute other than to hide and buy/sell commissions.
Like, I really fkin want to know the answer to this question, but I don't think we'll find it, at least here and now.
(video was thought provoking, first time making a comment this long I think hahaha)
I used a lot of real convos and researching cons to make my arguments, but yes I am pretty blunt for what I think of conservatives x3
The fandom is more left-center for sure on a lot of social issues, but there's "don't ruin the magic" culture that a lot of those issues aren't brought up so there's no real friction when a conservative does enter the fandom initially. Of course eventually it does come out but by that point a lot of people will just try to avoid the topic as to not create conflict unless it's just too egregious. There's actually quite a few large conservative furry creators who people tend to just forget the past deeds, which happens cause there's a lot to keep track of. So they don't feel comfortable but they shut up so that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their ideas
I too would like to know the answer haha. Even if you ask a convo in a nice way they don't really have an answer. However I'm always open to be proven wrong by some confur out there
I don’t really agree with the minors in the conventions not because it’s a furry convention but all conventions in general should stay for people over 17 at least
Younger people being interested in a topic tend to keep things going. A lot of kids media had anthropomorphize characters in them so they'll be around. Parents also sometimes have furry kids so having a family space is important. Thus they need to be considered and conventions is one of those places.
The tilde should be… “POLITICS do nothing for the furry fandom” seriously whether your conservative or liberal I don’t care keep it all out of the fandom it literally ruins the fandom. The fandom is art, not flipping politics
I wrote my title correctly. The fandom is about anthro with is focusing on humans. Humans make politics, so it'll naturally be a thing without needing to even point to all the other furry stuff that does politics daily
The point is a happy furry shouldn't even talk about, and when you see people talking about it you should avoid them if you want to be happy. Politics are for people with too much time on their hands.
Politics is the discussion around human interaction aka everything. Ignorance is a way to be happy because you're purposefully keeping yourself dumb. I wouldn't call that a good thing. You can engage in politics and still be happy BECAUSE you're actively holding the tools to improve your situation. Be smart and talk about it more
Art is often linked to society and politics, art is a way of expressing ideas or views.
Actually i'm conservative and we do PLENTY of things for the furry fandom.
I would explain it but you are too arrogant to get it.
Aka, you don't do anything and your ideas are bad. Thanks for the engagement and watch tho
Can you kindly elaborate on what stuff have you contributed exactly??
@@SkullGod69 Well for one I can tell you that I am not cringe unlike democrat liberals.
HAH!
See, just provided two jokes there.
Donated to charity.
What more do you want me to explain myself since liberals do NOTHING!
@@PureKoor No, my ideas are good. You're welcome and the engagement was negative.
Live with that cope.
@@FoxyPercival714 The algo just takes note you're engaging with this video that keeps your attention on youtube for however long. So it's very positive for me :3
And once again, you can't list any aka your ideas are bad. Plus you didn't negate you don't do anything so thanks for agreeing with me!
I mean, I'm a liberal conservative (meaning I combine policies from both sides, but I respect tradition alot with regards still being given to human freedom and individuality) and I feel like I contribute something to the fandom
Such as what policy
@@PureKoor Rights for minorities, abortion rights, transparent(ish) government, environmental care, more restricted gunlaws, etc...
On the right end I vouch for a return to cultural values (while still giving the upper hand to civil rights and individuality, mostly), a MUCH stronger government, passing on more power to the states (somewhat???), steelwalling culture (as in, reinforcing it and all its traditions against the rise of globalism, while still accepting globalism), a return to pagan values, etc...
I mean like what conservative policy would contribute to the fandom. For example, how would an artist like me benefit from your idea of protectionism of culture when 1) has only more recently accepted my existence and 2) a lack of progressing culture would reduce the amount of resources I can use for making new works
@@PureKoor It wouldnt contribute anything bc politics shouldnt be at the core of the fandom, what i said simply was that conservative furs can contribute, and by conservative i mean like the moderate ones, we dont talk about the trumpists...
@@rstar6988 Politics are at the core. They always were, we just pretend they're not or that it's so normal we don't consider it the normal argumentized politics. So what I see is induvial contributing to the fandom, but when a conservative ultimately gives a conservative idea/solution to do something in the fandom... bad things happen even if it's not the core. So again you're gonna have to give me a policy that conservatives contribute cause if a conservative isn't doing anything conservatively, then they're not really a conservative at that point or they view their beliefs to be so inconsequential that they don't bring them to the table which neither position is great lol
I would say not directly... But I think it is good to have a balance on the progressive ideology. As I do get a bit worried that sometimes progressive side gets quite pushy as well... I like the ability to just let people be honest with themselves and do what they want to as long as they are not hurting others.
To the point on the economic side, 100% agree that we should not be letting the resellers of stuff they didn't make at all be in dealer's dens because we're trying to help support those members of the community who focus on the hand crafted goods.
Can you be more specific about which actions a conservative takes to create balance and what issues are we balancing out here? Like progressive people back in the day were pushy for civil rights and conservatives wanted to find a middle ground within jim crow polices or just outright jim crow. That's technically a balance but one which we NOW expect people to understand was harmful (because past people didn't think it was hurting others to segregate people). We still have such issues today such as furry conservatives' ideas of bathrooms
@PureKoor Let me clarify a little bit, I don't claim nor lean conservative, I am more progressive. That said, I don't agree with the people who take it too far, as an example of one I have seen some people getting a little upset about including myself... are around the "you are just an egg" relating to the Trans verbage around it. I am not saying people are doing it directly to be mean or even fully understand the feelings it creates for some. I know I am treadding on some tense water here, so let me try and be as careful as I can be here. I am Non-Binary and I have thought about being Trans, it was something I explored and talked with many and even health professionals about. I have realized that I identify far more as someone who is Non-Binary/Queer gender. That said, there have been several people who have personally dogged on me about being "an egg, that just needs to be cracked" and sure started out playful but i have seen people pushing harder and trying to tell me I should just transition that the Non-Binary/Queer is just a stepping stone, and maybe it is for some but for me I enjoy the feeling of some days I am more masculine and other days I am more feminine and yet I have had people tell me that my choice to not Transition is bothering them... which I don't understand and does become annoying.
I am not saying this is everyone, I am not even saying this is the majority of people. I am just saying that this jouney that I went on to try and find myself out and go through those motions required me to deal with people who continually just badger me with "you make such a great girl with your mannerisms and voice" and "you are just not cracked yet, it is going to happen" and just feels upsetting to me. I don't dis people for wanting to transition, I want people to it is important to be yourself but don't pressure others into what you think they should be ... let us ask questions and stop pressuring someone after they have asked you to stop.
@@TimothyRogers Just wanted to say that those people who were trying to "crack your egg" are definitely in the wrong. That's literally rule number one out of the proverbial trans handbook, where they're supposed to let folks come to their own conclusion instead of imposing their beliefs onto someone. Even if one assumes they're an "egg", they have to let them come to that conclusion on their own, first.
Personally I’m a conservative fur and I think some of the stuff other conservatives believe in is pretty stupid
I agree with that but we don't have to talk about those people. We can talk about what the positive contributions are from conservative ideologies that make the fandom better. I personally just can't think of any substantial ones which is why I'm asking
RUclips doesn't let me comment on videos without deleting comments for having some AI determined wrong set of words to explain some things. I don't know how anyone even posts comments more than 3 sentences long anymore.
Your comment seems fine here
@@PureKoor I made a 3 paragraph long comment, reworded it over and over, broke it into 3 comments. I give up. I'm not going to create some form of newspeak just because i like making long thought out commentary. RUclips obviously doesn't want actual conversations happening.
TLDR completely ruined scrapped comment version: As someone with views both conservatives and progressives would variously either agree with or oppose, a video like this is a bit problematic in that it seems to show you don't appear to have tried talking to a conservative to understand the logic to how they think. You're going to generally find a wider range of opinions among conservatives since there's not so much of the enforcement of supporting the same specific views. They tend to be independent thinkers and willing to stand on those values even against one another. There's also that more generally it's problematic because it appears to be a symptom of the politically radicalized effort to socially other anyone with differing views. There's a lot of generalizing, painting an entire diverse group of people with different and opposing opinions as in lockstep with only the worst things some of them believe. It's no more true than painting progressives as all being the screaming banshees trying to destroy jobs and lives of anyone they disagree with.
And believe me, as someone who sometimes has a slightly different opinion on the best way to handle divisive issues, no one has inflicted more toxic behavior, accusations, and blocking on me than progressives. Conservatives at least seem willing to listen. I really think progressives need to take a moment to look at themselves and ask if yelling, calling someone some sort of istphobe if they don't 100% support your exact position, and blocking them really does anything to convince them of anything. Dx
I'm completely willing to discuss my opinions on things with a progressive or conservative at any time, but no one lately seems to respect the idea that you can't always bring someone to your side. Two people can be completely correct in their differing conclusions because their outlook on the subject has different assessments. At that point, instead of rousing a mob, saying some nasty words, and blocking, you're supposed to just drop the subject and sort it at the ballot box while hoping your opinion reached more people than theirs. I don't think people are responsible enough to use blocking correctly these days, but that's a whole other subject i could go on and on about the long term effect it has on social development and society as a whole.
@@PureKoor On that note, I don't claim to be able to represent views of a conservative accurately myself seeing as I'm an atheist, ace, and consider political parties a cancer upon democracy, but I can try.
@@avereth I'm busy answer a lot of comments before a con lol. I'll answer your comment when I can. Not sure why you need newspeak tho that's weird
Disclaimer, I am not a conservative. You won't find someone more looking forward to escaping this boring human shape for something more interesting out there. If I could take a dip in mystery liquid and come out the other side an anthro species of my choice there's not a soul alive that could stop me from diving in daily and trying out every form imaginable.
That said, I felt like this video poked fun at all the memes about conservatives instead of what a conservative actually is the same way that the republicans talk about "liberals".
Part of the reason you have so much trouble figuring out how a conservative idea might help a convention is because a lot of conservative ideas are the starting point on which many ideas are built, such as fiscal conservatism. Plainly stated, if a con spends more money than they make, they aren't going to have a second convention, are they? In the same way, respect for institutions are baked in already with many conventions taking time to thank their volunteers, staff and security during opening and closing ceremonies. This would be considered a "social conservative" idea. A lot of "conservative" values are taken for granted because they're the default and we don't think of them as conservative.
Plainly stated, a "conservative" is someone who values tradition and the continuity of tradition. So in this context, a "conservative furry" would be someone who wants to maintain the traditions of the furry fandom as seen in history: fringe experimentation, person to person collaboration and interaction, the artist's alley, room parties, fursuits, etc, etc. They might also get mad about people "breaking the magic".
If you want something that you might identify as a "conservative" philosophy more readily, then I would point to the emphasis on the value of the nuclear family. Imagine a con that had a focus on bringing whole families of furries to conventions, with theming and events focused on the whole family going and doing stuff together. Right now I'm seeing videos about furs panicking over whether or not a "no kids" future is the future of conventions, and this is a conservative value that would fit nicely as a counter to that. You could still have adult only sections, too.
So, yeah, don't confuse conservatives with people who call themselves conservatives but don't actually know what the word means, or with politicians. Politicians are the ones who want to control your life and force you to live a certain way. It's not just republicans, they're just loud and unimaginative about how they want to go about doing it. Democrats also want to have control over your life, they're just sneakier about how they go about making you miserable.
Also, hot dang your VR model is beautiful. I gotta get me one of those!
Imo I feel like most furries are actually middle leaning, what ever happen3d to trying to find a middle ground-
How do you find the middle ground between racial segregation and integration. A lot of our politics have many solutions but the underlying logic has been pretty binary for a long time. You don't need the middle ground, you need good solutions. People will go with good solutions even if they're extreme because the point is not to middle ground just to avoid hurting someone's feelings (like conservatives who whine a lot)
Your question is entirely in bad faith. Most of the video was just flaming random talking points and saying how evil a group is. You've poisoned the well out the gate. Judging by how you've responded to anyone who isn't just agreeing with you in the comments, which is just more inflammatory commentary, you're set in your own bigotry and are not open to other perspectives at all. So I have to assume the "question" is entirely rhetorical and is made less for discussion but for affirmation.
I don't consider myself a conservative, but there's a lot of things I disagree with from them and a lot with the other side. I've made friends who I have made disagreements with on political lines. You know what helped bridge a gap wedged by political differences? Our appreciation for anthropomorphic characters. When I found common ground, it was easier to look past assumptions and get to understand what an individual believes as apposed to the presumed prescription of labeling everyone who identifies as conservative a bigoted reactionary who don't belong in the fandom. Politicizing anthropomorphism on such tribal lines is a bad idea overall, so the people making this con get flack from me for that as well, but considering you seem to speak for what the majority in the fandom believe, I'm not surprised this is what they've done in response to the fandom's own intolerance.
My question is genuine even if you wanna pretend the arguments I said didn't directly come from conservatives I've listened/watched/talked to. People here framing this discussion as "both sides" is weird given you can just say what conservatives do well. I don't need to both sides pancakes if I say I like waffles ya know. So if you have a argument for conservatives then I'm all ears. Just odd you complain about wanting common ground but your first reaction is to describe why there isn't common ground and how I'm bad faith. Your judgment skills seem poor there bud. I'm an induvial trying to convince furries of my arguments around a furry topic, not a spokes person for the majority of the fandom. I'm flattered though ty
@@PureKoor You must not understand how badly you poisoned the well then. You can't say "I dislike this group, here's a bunch of reasons why I think you should hate them, they are not welcomed in my group" and expect me to believe there is any kind of olive branch in your paws. I've read your responses to other comments, you just dig your heels in even more. You've just rejected the concept of a both sides perspective. How could any conservative expect a good faith engagement with you in such blatantly hostile conditions?
My description was not how there isn't common ground, because I can criticize many conservative beliefs too if pressed, but you are absolutely asking for 'discussion' in bad faith, after listening and reading your thoughts you do not come across as somebody who is actually open to other people's perspectives. You may not be trying to be an officiated representative, but you are speaking as if you know what the furry community believes in and what's best for them.
@@humanconvertile You avoided my point but let's start off with yours. Conservatives talk about perishing people like me constantly so the idea of an olive branch without real steps as to how it's safe to do so is an issue yes. BIG HOWEVER, I can still say my views without needing an opposing side to compare it against. So if you have a point, just state the point, why debate about hoping you have a debate. I'm right here lol. Just state the conservative policy or shoo.
@@PureKoor I did not avoid your point, in fact you made several in response to me, and I addressed them all. Unless what you're referring to is the supposed "discussion". I have no interest in engaging a petty tit-for-tat of "conservatives do this" "progressives do that", because that's all it's going to end up being.
What I'm doing is criticizing your approach and sincerity, which is important if you actually hope to have real conversations with people. If you actually want to talk to people from the opposite side in a manner in which you claim, starting off this hostile and asserting the worst possible positions are the default is not the way.
You are actively avoiding my point and question. The question isn't "do progressive do better". Directly tell me and any passerby DIRECT POILCIES THAT COME FROM A CONSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY that make cons better aka contribute positively. That's all you have to do.
I'm well known for my views, volunteer, canvass, and other IRL activities. I can and have contacted conservatives even in recent times. You're back seat driving in a completely different car driving the opposite way lol. Answer the above paragraph or again, shoo
Conservatives contribute a whole lot! like nothing and nothing
All of your research was done on specifically extremists, so why are you grouping them as a whole??? Antifurs do the exact same thing, and we all complain...
Every ideology, fandom, etc. has values. It's aggravating to watch people group others like that.
It's based on casual conservative too. The point of ideologies is to have similar beliefs. Indivuals can different but the group as a whole will have trends. That's just the nature of categorizing stuff haha
@PureKoor I'm a casual conservative, and I happened to agree with alot of what you said. The bathrooms for example, totally acceptable and understandable. But my reasoning is not because it makes people with a gender crisis "feel better", it's because of the practical usage. I agree with you explanation, but not any other reasons for it.
categorizing the whole thing is just not a great approach. The point of the video was just to simply combat conservatism.
I could categorize gays, Muslims, women, men, liberals, anyone... but it wouldn't be right, because they aren't all the same.
You just grouped a whole bunch of people together and called them worthless? And again, antifurs do it to furries all the damn time, and we all make the same excuse.
@PureKoor why are we politicizing the fandom anyways? It's literally just a style of art, costume, or expression. I can agree that posting art or costume directed souly to being political, whether its conservative or not, is something unnecessary though =w=
Again, categorizes do have generalizations because individualizinh everything requires expertise that a human life span can not allow for. If I say a blue flower, you will combine every value from deep blue to cyan, again even though you could individualize every color.
Politics is the discussions about interaction between humans. The way you frame that interaction matters especially when conflicts occur. The fandom had always been political cause humans are political. The real question is will you actively engage with it or will you be ignorant on the matter. Me saying conservatives don't belong in this fandom is active engagment because I want certain outcomes like practical expectation trans people feeling welcome along with all the other practical reasons
@@PureKoor Ok, I'm not conservative or right wing or whatever, but I take issue with the "conservatives don't belong in this fandom" part, dude its a fandom not a club, you don't get to decide who can be a part of it, no one does, it doesn't matter who you are, what you are, what your background is, what your believes are or was, anyone can be a furry even conservatives its not all just about LGBT, its about being a fan of everything furry, if you are a fan you are a fan, you can't just shut people out because you don't agree with some of bs the extreme and horrible ones spout, same goes for some of the left nut jobs
I'm a conservative furry.
I'm the main source of income now or was for a decent amount of artists I work with.
I actively include friends in artwork without making them spend any money.
I'm not religious, yet the constant shit talking about conservative furs like we're the problem is what made me switch from Anarcho-Tribalist to what I believe now. Also kids shouldn't be allowed at conventions at all. I was groomed into being a sex toy, and a furry. My body is now ruined, and I have put too much effort into the furry lifestyle to back out now. Videos like this make me feel further isolated. Don't delete this comment, try to explain how I'm the problem here.
I explained the problem in the video, you should watch it. Also, not sure why you're expecting your comment to be deleted? That's weird
@@PureKoor It wouldn't be the first time my existence was denied for being different. Also not all conservatives think exactly alike. If I ran a con it would be business as usual but only an 18+ space. A pretty simple change
Being different is fine. Being conservative is bad for many logical and historical reasons! People do think differently but labels are used to narrow what people need to assume. If the label doesn't fit your views then don't use it! Rejecting a large portion of the fandom due to age would make anyone under 18 have a bad time, so it's not that best solution nor conservative
@@PureKoor I don't think you understand conservatism that much, but I agree that some branches are bad like Neo-Cons. I'm a Constitutional conservative. It's not a bad thing to be proud of my country, want to maintain small government, and have the people as the predominant voice in our republic. What exactly about that makes me bad? Liberals are the ones who call me slurs and all types of horrific things to try and win an argument. Conservatives won me over with the fact that at the end of the day they'll handle serious issues while the left avoids them like the plague
@@PureKoor Also any con or meet up like that should be 18+, and that is conservative to want to keep kids out of that environment. I was groomed into being a sex toy when I was 11 by people who started off by saying the same things you are. So be careful with that rhetoric
I may be a gay Republican furry, but I leave ALL politics at the door when it comes to the furry fandom. My boyfriend is a furry Democrat and he leaves politics out of the fandom as well.
Ok, but conventions have problems they need solved and those issues will be political. So can you name a solution that fits within the conservative ideology that benefits cons or the furry fandom i general. Cause quite frankly, even if you're quite about your politics within the fandom, your vote, voice, and money still makes it harder to run cons or to feel relaxed knowing a person who is being friendly is ensuring that rights are taken away.
You all talk about love and acceptance but you realize that by saying that a conservatives vote is harming you is kind of the opposite of that. The reason why voting was made in the first place was so the majority of people would be happy. If more people vote conservative, and less democrat, then that means that more people share a view that is different than your view. Also, most conservatives feel like democrats are taking away their right as well so don’t bring up that BS that we are taking away your rights just because we have different views than you. I would also like to point out that I am completely fine with people of different views. What I don’t like is when they shove their ideology in my face and call me a bad person if I don’t agree with it.
Democrats are pretty bad to ya. Conservatives are way worse but dems are better overall. Anywho, love and acceptance doesn't mean everyone is in that group. If someone murders your family, are you expected to love and accept them? No. You need reasons to. I want people to feel safe and welcomed. Conservatives make that hard to do, they need to leave. If such folk want to be part of a community, they need to ensure they're helping the community be better and happy. Also most people don't vote and the electoral college was made so the will of the people was less Democratic in its process. So ideally if conservatives were the majority they would be the accepted group, but realistically both dems and conservatives win by the consent of the few due to various reasons that's too long to discuss here. Maybe a future video!
For one, the reason why I would say I side with the right is because when I was younger, I tried to learn Japanese because I was fascinated with the culture. Someone in my class didn’t like that and thought it was racist for a white person to try and learn that culture. Therefore, he attacked me with a pencil after we had an argument about whether or not I could learn it. I ended up fighting back and he ended up getting injured. In the end, the school that I was attending at the time gave me a week of in school suspension and he had no punishment at all because the school listened to his side of the story but never asked mine. They also never contacted my parents about it and at the time, I thought I was lucky because I could hide the wound and they would never know, but now I know that in reality, the school was just covering it up. So yes, I would say democrats have been pretty bad to me. Also you’re idea that the furry fandom should only accept left wing thinkers is one for the most fascist ideas I have ever heard.
@@Fox1ord-wy7gx You accepted a whole ideology because people were mean to you? Do you follow people off a bridge cause they ask you nicely to? That's a terrible story, I'm sorry you experienced that. You should learn Japanese, it's a very beautiful language. 大学で日本語を勉強しました. BIG HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you should base your belief system off of purely from people's actions alone. Those people in your past were bad, democrats are generally not great for many of their beliefs such as capitalisms. You as an individual though can think for yourself and think for yourself as to why ideas or good or bad. ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html I made a whole video about such for that very reason. The republican/conservative/fascist platform is bad for more specific reasons than "they're mean" like I mentioned with topics like the bathroom debate. And given that people's beliefs will always shine through, it's good to actually think about what's being said.
I believe the fandom should be a place for people trying to build a better future for all, which includes simple things like making friends. That allows for many belief systems and different types of people. What I'm saying doesn't allow for is people who want to harm others for their personal gain such as conservatives
Wah Wah
Wah
@@PureKoor *nom* >:3
i am a bit confused as to how... can you get.... conservative furrys to begin with.
sorry, I'm not rly versed on the furry culture... but like u said, it looks like a huge part of it is inclusivity, which is the ONE thing conservatives don't like?
so confused....
I'll make video discussing the topic in the future but the reason conservative furries are conservative are the same ones that can be found throughout the world for normies. The reasons are very dumb, but to the conservative there is a logic that makes sense in the short term. Conservatives have a dissonance with the fandom because in tbe long term our values are better (which they obviously enjoy) but to admit that would be admiting they're wrong about their core beliefs
As someone who grew up in a conservative and religious home in a conservative state, I had to come to terms that who I am will never meet their expectations. It's through having lgbt+ friends and meeting furries online that helped me unpack my old views and learned to love and accept myself. I don't believe conservative values should represent the furry fandom at all as it is counter productive to self expression and individuality in the fandom. Be that in mind, I am not going to gate-keep people of differing opinions to a furry convention as long as they are respectful and don't promote hate or cause other issues. I just don't think it helps anyone if you don't give others the opportunity to learn or change their minds.
Given the current conservative policies of anti trans laws, restricting women's reproductive rights, banning of any lgbt+ representation in media/books, and project 2025, I am not going to vote for any conservatives for a long, long, long, long time.
Ya, the biggest problem comes from the fact that a belief will always be acted out. Like if someone is afraid of heights, that doesn't affect every cliff driver's experience but it does mean THAT person most likely will avoid that activity. So if a conservative is "respectful and nice" to the average country expectations, they can get away with a lot. I give an example of that in this video ruclips.net/video/saXzXq3lXnM/видео.html which you can see the affects of in real world conventions
People should absolutely be given the chance to grow and learn. Mistakes/failures are good to do. That makes us human in an anthro fandom. However a lot of conservatives, even those wanting to be apart of the fandom, aren't here to learn and have active rhetoric to suppress that learning like "the fandom is just a hobby/Don't ruin the magic/the furry fandom is for everyone". To be more proactive in gatekeeping is good when the people doing so are considering deeper reasons as to what we want this fandom to be
@@PureKoor LOL Funny enough I watched that video after commenting on this one.
I agree that you have to weed out bad people/actors in any group/fandom. I rather have people that are more open minded and accepting of people of various ethnicity/gender/sexuality over someone who constantly belittles others for characteristics of their identity or who are just rude and mean all the time. I wouldn't enjoy the fandom as much as I do if it was more conservative or mainstream.
Rereading my comment I understand where your point is being made. The hard part with gatekeeping conservatives in a convention would be identifying them. Unless they walk around in pro trump merch or spout any conservative rhetoric you wouldn't know immediately until a red flag pops up. You wouldn't know someone's deeply held belief unless you interact with them long enough or if they cause a reaction/disturbance. You definitely have to be vigilant and proactive in that space. Normally I would discourage the "Bobs" of the world from joining in the fandom or anyone who I feel would not be a good fit. From my own perspective, I am more open to helping people who are questioning their political/personal beliefs. Though I would start that more privately rather than just taking them to a convention while they are starting to question things.
And? Seriously, being a conservative, I have already realized that everything is bad and have already left the fandom. Thank goodness I didn't come back, as I'm a simple artist who makes sketches for free and lives a quiet life outside of fandom
Cons and the fandom in general is getting more members because it's petty good actually
left-leaning artists are more nice and skilled anyway, you do you
@@kloa4219 so political beliefs determine skill is that what ur trying to imply
Left leaning artists make more money than right leaning artists
@kemix conservatives can't draw teally good. Most use AI art
I'm a Socialist so it's hard for me not to agree
Same
Lol
The way you articulate your sentences in a more digestible manner is really awesome. Subscribed!
Thank you! I'm glad you like the way I discuss topics :3
Yeah. You ask wrong question. Job of conservative is not to innovate but to oppose progress, Question should be what progressive idea conservatives stopped because it was bad. Progressive push civilization forward, conservative keep it from being pushed over edge.
Problem overall is politcal, political discurse in US and in world(rest of the world is like 8 years behind US) got out of balance both sides are getting more extreme, and we rarely get compromises today, both sides wants to dominate other.
About separated bathrooms they are basically the same as Gun free zones They don't stop premeditated crime, Separate bathroom will not stop rapist the same as gun free zone will not stop a shooter. But they stop crimes of passion and opportunity. Unisex bathroom would work in most places but in places like bars where you have drunk people and drunk people do stupid stuff they are bad idea.
Puphoods is just question what is fetish gear. Are they sexual? No. Are they used outside sexual situation? Not really. So in the end question is do we want sexual stuff to be less sexual and more public. And do we really need them , we already have fursuits/heads.
And the last. "Whats point of Con Furries in Furry Fandom?" Simple they are Furries Which means they belong in Furry Fandom.
Conservatives are the progressives of the past. Conservatives slowly align to the progressive position from recent decades because they don't oppose progress, they oppose progress that isn't from their childhood. Being pro-slavery was conservative, then the extreme progressive abolitionists fought to free the slaves into "peaceful" segregation. Those once progressive people we view highly became the conservatives for their kin that wanted full integration. Etc etc. That cycle means "both sides" is a bad framing for the actual process going on.
Same for the bathroom, drunk people are still people. Drinks can't turn you into a monster, you'd already have to be one which is an underlying problem we could address before they reach the bar so bars can have neutral bathrooms like everywhere else.
I made a video about the puphood question you should check out ruclips.net/video/Bf9t6DMtR30/видео.html
A person can like anthros without being a furry. The furry fandom is about connections with other people. So if a conservative is being hostile n' causing harm, then they don't have to belong to the fandom. The fandom can reject them which has happened to some once notable right-wing furries.
@@PureKoorYeah, Conservative is a role, The same as opposition. Literally last point from video you linked. What we get from having conservative or any opposition is that we have to convince them. We have to do list of Pros and Cons, with out them you close yourself in echo chamber surrounded by yes man. From political point of view we are near end of cycle but it's like living in era we don't know in what era we live now, we don't know if circle s ending or beginning.
Drunk people are people but which thing is easier to do; Make segregated bathroom or check everybody who can safely drink alkohol and police them from getting into bars.
Harmful person is Harmful. Is every conservative Furry Harmful tho? if there Harmful progressive kick them too.
BTW was puphood question just trick to watch your old video? XD
Why do we have to convince them? I did that for a lot of my life for my mere existence. That was always cruel to put people like me through. An intellectual debate for conservatives is real people's lives being stopped to appease them. Not sure what you mean by a circle tbh. History rhymes but isn't a complete circle haha
Would your drunk argument also mean we should separate bars by gender like we did for race or cigarettes?
No, it's just a common furry discourse point with clear history to fashion that can easily be cited for laws, news paper articles, and more. Since I made a video on it already I can present that argument without needing to rewrite it over and over!
@@PureKoor Simple. Do to other what you want to be done to you. But I know that due to ideological differences, prioritizing different values. discourse is hard. But there is no one better at finding cons than opposition. You don't have to really convince them but coming up with workaround/solution to problem they point out improves idea by simply eliminating cons.
All of it balance between security and freedom. You can lock up everybody in cells and they will never hurt each other but is life like that worth living.
I don’t know if this is a hot take or not, but I believe politics should just be left out of conventions (both right AND left ideologies) of course people are free to discuss politics amongst themselves in a civil manner but I don’t believe cons should be formed on a conservative or progressive or political basis. Bringing up politics from either sides can cause arguments and ruin the experience for many people. Cons should be fun spaces to hang out and interact with people of all backgrounds. As a person with a more right leaning opinion but with an open mind, I wish everyone could get along and interact with each other peacefully regardless of beliefs or religion. I know that’s far out there to expect, but I just wish that everyone could be nice together. The queer people and the straight people could all agree and be kind. Everyone is respectful toward each other, right wing people respect left wing people; and left wing people respect right wing people. Everyone regardless of race, gender, sexuality, and religion can be together and just enjoy the fun con together and celebrate our uniqueness and unity as a community of people with shared interests of anthro animals 😺
🫶
Sorry if this makes no sense if I need to clarify anything I will. I just want everyone to know I respect and love everybody ❤️
I’m willing to answer any questions you may have and have civil open minded discussions😊
Also I do not speak for all conservatives some of them are real jerks lol. Politics are corrupt in general 😕
Also for the creator thank you for making this video you make a lot of good points and thank you for this opportunity to discuss! ❤️
It's a normal take that sadly is held from a forgotten horrify history haha. Yes, a con based around politics will create a negative experience for some people. The question though is /who/, because cons already create negative experiences for some people. Including the honest and open political discussion upfront means being more truthful about what the goals of a convention are, which we already do for some topics it's just been normalized over the decades to seem like it's not political to run furry cons how they currently run. What nice means can be radically different from country to region to person. You can have a person who thinks you shouldn't exist while ensuring you don't starve. Humans are pretty complex creatures!
It's a bit long but I'd highly recommend watching my video on how to come up with ideas, cause I go indepth with this topic. You can skip to the "why good/ok/bad ideas" chapter if you're low on time. It directly states why some ideas literally can't coexist. That some conservative ideas are mutually exclusive
ruclips.net/video/2tbDFzhtVqc/видео.html