A lot of you guys were particulary into the guitar tone from this one so here's the full mix breakdown www.mdltone.audio / joshsylosisofficial www.joshmiddle...
Hello Josh, french fan of you and Sylosis speaking. My name is Valentin. First of all, you probably heard that a million times before but thanks a lot for your awesome music, it truly is a blessing ! I struggle with my mixes since I started recording music years ago. I still can't get a descent guitar tone. I bought Ultimate Heavy Drums (which is sick, congratulations !) and your IR pack and my guitar tone still sounds like a fart. Now don't get me wrong : your IR pack is killer, I saw hundreds of videos of you or other people demoing it and it always delivers outstanding results. But when I play with it, it sounds nothing like what I've heard in those videos (again, I'm absolutely convinced the problem comes from my side). I blamed my pickups and then I bought EMGs and Seymour Duncans : still awful. I bought a new audio interface, I tried various settings on it, moved the pots in every place possible, I bought tons of IRs including yours, I even tried to reproduce people's amp sim settings. I even bought complete Cubase templates. I saw all your mixing videos, I don't own your STL Tonality plugin but I do own STL Amphub. I reproduced every setting you showed, all the pots, the pedals (by the way, my overdrive is never boosted enough, still sounds thin, weak and muddy as hell), the mics positions, the EQ, multiband compressor, just everything. I don't blame the plugins I use, nor my pickups, nor my guitars, nor my DAW, nor my audio interface... I just don't know why my setup (which is everybody's setup honestly) sounds like crap. I own what everyone owns, but I sound nothing like them (and by the way, I'm not a beginner guitar player). Is there any magic trick ? Something that I don't know ? I saw everything from Joey Sturgis, Andy Sneap, Jens Bogren, you, all the greats and my sounds still sucks. I spent all my money in gear and plugins, I don't know what to do anymore. I'm desperate. If you ever read this, thanks for taking the time !
Hey man, maybe we can have a chat together, i could perhaps help you out a bit? We could share some DI tracks and mixing templates and see if i can manage to make it sound good
Bass sound (tone) sound is very important in overall mix sound also. Get and install new strings, set the correct input level of your audio interface (for example, if you have very noisy electricity network and have no power filters, or your "studio" commutation have plenty of errors and you have a lot of white noise - try to lover input level as much, as signal-noise ratio will be as good as possible ( I use, for example, 20-25% because of that, otherwise I can't even use normally any VST amp sims due enormous amount of noise when it at high levels like 70-100%). Then stop boosting Lows (bass knob) on guitar amps to get THICK tone, low cut it instead (this is most common problem of getting muddy, unclear sound. Also cut some muddy low-mid around 200-400Hz), you will get sicker tone by adding proper Bass guitar tone to your mix. So 1) Setup new strings and input levels 2) Setup as minimal setup in mixer as possible (overdrive or 2 overdrives in series (I personally use this trick, but second one without any tweaks or boosts just as additional filter and gives a bit more tightiness), amp sim you would like to choose, IR. Play in that setup with IR's and amp settings to get some decent (not awesome) tone, after that 3) add EQ's and polish it (try to find that decent tone so, that at EQing stage you will not need to boost anything (DONT boost your bass on guitars, let your bassist or bass tone do his job, even if sound thin - leave it thin and just add bass track and mix it). After Bass track is added, level it correctly, mix and EQ it (again dont boos 200-400 range, it will make your tone only muddier. Double track guitars. No quad tracking, unless your playing skills as precise and tight as Josh's. Instead of double tracking I use next trick - as I said I use 2 overdrives in series, so second one also is used as stereodizer, it shoud have some switches like asymmetrical clipping or depth boost (also you can just slightly change tone knob setup up or down, very gentle and little), so you copy your full mixer track as first, but these tweaks just in opposite settings (for example, depth switch alone works good, if left track have set it off, then right will have on and vice versa). So I can just play it as doubletrack (stereo) live when setting the guitar tone (I'm lazy to record doubletracks every time). Set you mixer track output levels for guitar tone to -12 -10db. Maxing it on all tracks and have clippings will make it impossible for mastering mix. The real mixing secret is not how to get 4 perfect sounds and sum it ("mix") but how to find 4 awful tones that sound perfect (amazing) when blended and mixed together. So learn to blend awful tones in amazing mix. Stop running and hunting for perfect tones, samples. etc. It will not make your mixes sound amazing on it's own. If you upload somewhere samples of how your mixes sound (soundcloud or so) and drop link here, then problem may be identified easier or more concrete tips may be given by someone. In my experience I have different sound also and never as the one showed in some videos I tried to replicate, don't even try to replicate it and throw away that idea, just find your own on your PC setup with your soundcard interface. Amazing tones and sounds may be achieved even with only free stuff (VSt, IR's).
@El_Suertero Wow, that's a gold comment right there, thank you very much ! I already tried several EQ moves on my bass and guitars, I replicated tons of like Fabfilter Pro Q-3 settings and stuff like that. I let my bass carries the low frequencies and I cut my guitar tone around 80-120 Hz depending on the mix, more likely 90 Hz most of the time. Soloed, my rhythm guitar bus sounds thin indeed, but I stopped worrying about making the instrument sound good on its own, now I think my mix as a whole band. You're right about the muddy frequencies, I cut some of the 320 Hz or so, and I have a multiband compressor taming those 90-350 Hz. I really struggle finding the right balance between not enough and too much : most of the times, my guitar tone sounds thin AND muddy at the same time (weird), I have the feeling that everytime I hear a "whistle" or a "whoompf" and I cut it down, I get rid of those annoying frequencies but also the "character" of my tone itself at the same time. What starts with an improvement ends with a ruined, lifeless tone. I tried both dual-tracking and quad-tracking guitars. Dual-tracked guitars sound way thinner in my mixes and I have to level their volume up to hear them properly, but they don't sound right. If I mute all my rhythm guitars, I'm quite satisfied with the sound of my mix, it might not sounds perfect or professional yet, but it is a good starting point to work on. But as soon as I unmute my rhythm guitars, I hear lots of annoying frequencies, and the guitars sound like they don't belong to this mix. They sound OK on their own, but terrible in the context of a song. When I run my guitar plugins in standalone mode (I have several Neural DSP plugins and STL Amphub), I come up with tones that I like (some that I really dig in and enjoy playing), but they don't work in the mix, they don't even have the same flavourwhen I hear them in my DAW (my master bus isn't even doing that much). Also you mentionned gain level, and you did right because I should have talk about it in my previous comment : even with the gain at the minimum, with the line or inst button pulled of, I got clipping. I tried several guitars and they all clip. They don't all have the same pickups. I had a Focusrite Scarlett Solo audio interface, and I bought a Behringer UMC 204HD if remind correctly, and they both clip. I tried Josh's Tonality plugin (the free version for 15 days I think) and when I played the exact same presets that Josh demoed in several videos, I found that I had waaaayyyy too much gain, and the tone that I got was nowhere near as tight, full and incisive as Josh's was. My rhythm guitar bus is about -10dB in my mix. Also I experienced with several string gauges on my guitars (I have guitars in several tuning from E standard to B standard and a 7 string as well), and I found that light gauges were more present in the mix and had more top end in their sound. The problem is : I play a lot of thrashy galloping riffs and light gauge strings are unplayable for me (great for soloing but not for riffing). In standard E, I use 10-49 strings on 24.75 and 25.5 inches scales. I saw Ola Englund videos where he used 10-48 in Drop C, and I can't understand how he plays them. I don't play drop tunings but for C standard use 12-60 or 12-62 string gauges. It does affect the tone quite a lot, but I can't go lighter than that for this tuning because it would be too floppy for me. I have Discord if you want, I can send you audio files to check in. Thanks for taking the time man, I trully appreciate ! And sorry for my potential english mistakes 😅
@@ValentinGibouleau-d5v No worry. I don't use any discords or anything else. I play thin gauges 0.046 or even 0.042. As I get guitar set up with these, never tried any thicker. So I learned and trained with these. Have no problems with any gallops at any speed (just control of right hand movement amplitude, comes with consistent playing and practice) and also it even gives more fatty sound in lower tunings (I even sometimes have fun with Drop B or A on 0.042. About mix - there is producers meme exists with skeleton sleeping on mixing desk "The mix is almost perfect". So entire life isn't enough to get a perfect mix and you will be always unsatisfied more or less. So I would suggest just concentrate on guitar playing, composing cool harmonies for songs and tone is the last thing to worry about. You can always give it to peoples like Josh to make your amazing song sound huge, massive, powerfull and pro quality. But with bad song no Josh will help. P.S. I think it's very difficult to sound worse than black metal :_:
Would totally purchase a Cubase template from you with all your typical metal mix settings. Followed along with everything here and got it sounding pretty decent!
Hi josh, as a beginner im quite wondering the reason you put two separate fabfilter Q3 for several tweaks (like you have some detailed makeup in the first q3 and another q3 belom ssl to low cut) instead of one in the beginning to tame the whole thing?
I usually like to use one initial instance of it for subtractive EQ, removing harsh frequencies or problem areas. Then the SSL style to boost, then Pro-Q 3 again to refine. If I did it all in Pro-Q 3 it would be too annoying to go in and tweak things when theres so much going on. No real benefit sound wise, just how I like to do it
Cus I dont own a bass. It’s way easier when I’m writing to not switch between them and keep a guitar on my lap. It’s also incredibly useful when visiting demos with riffs you cant remember writing and you can quickly relearn from the MIDI.
I've not played in a real bass to recordings in years. It's just faster and more convention to sequence it up knowing that modern sample banks will give all the humanising elements that are needed. The time saved on not having to worry about fresh strings or intonation for yet another guitar is just too good.
@@nebularain3338 I save more time actually playing the instrument than fucking with Midi.... Its laziness in my opinion... but, we all have them dont we ;-)
Would love to hear a mix in the style of BFMV or Trivium using the Mid 2000’s UK Metal kit. Enjoying these mix run throughs so far!
That would be so cool! Would be cool with rain from trivium 🤘
Bfmv +
The riff god! Kit sounds mighty
Also first 👌🏻
Please more mixing Videos. I would buy it!!
Very COOL riffs 🎸Josh 🎸👍😁🇧🇷
Hello Josh, french fan of you and Sylosis speaking. My name is Valentin. First of all, you probably heard that a million times before but thanks a lot for your awesome music, it truly is a blessing !
I struggle with my mixes since I started recording music years ago. I still can't get a descent guitar tone. I bought Ultimate Heavy Drums (which is sick, congratulations !) and your IR pack and my guitar tone still sounds like a fart. Now don't get me wrong : your IR pack is killer, I saw hundreds of videos of you or other people demoing it and it always delivers outstanding results. But when I play with it, it sounds nothing like what I've heard in those videos (again, I'm absolutely convinced the problem comes from my side).
I blamed my pickups and then I bought EMGs and Seymour Duncans : still awful. I bought a new audio interface, I tried various settings on it, moved the pots in every place possible, I bought tons of IRs including yours, I even tried to reproduce people's amp sim settings. I even bought complete Cubase templates.
I saw all your mixing videos, I don't own your STL Tonality plugin but I do own STL Amphub. I reproduced every setting you showed, all the pots, the pedals (by the way, my overdrive is never boosted enough, still sounds thin, weak and muddy as hell), the mics positions, the EQ, multiband compressor, just everything. I don't blame the plugins I use, nor my pickups, nor my guitars, nor my DAW, nor my audio interface... I just don't know why my setup (which is everybody's setup honestly) sounds like crap. I own what everyone owns, but I sound nothing like them (and by the way, I'm not a beginner guitar player).
Is there any magic trick ? Something that I don't know ? I saw everything from Joey Sturgis, Andy Sneap, Jens Bogren, you, all the greats and my sounds still sucks. I spent all my money in gear and plugins, I don't know what to do anymore. I'm desperate.
If you ever read this, thanks for taking the time !
Hey man, maybe we can have a chat together, i could perhaps help you out a bit? We could share some DI tracks and mixing templates and see if i can manage to make it sound good
@@midnightmix2692 That would be great, thanks !
Bass sound (tone) sound is very important in overall mix sound also. Get and install new strings, set the correct input level of your audio interface (for example, if you have very noisy electricity network and have no power filters, or your "studio" commutation have plenty of errors and you have a lot of white noise - try to lover input level as much, as signal-noise ratio will be as good as possible ( I use, for example, 20-25% because of that, otherwise I can't even use normally any VST amp sims due enormous amount of noise when it at high levels like 70-100%). Then stop boosting Lows (bass knob) on guitar amps to get THICK tone, low cut it instead (this is most common problem of getting muddy, unclear sound. Also cut some muddy low-mid around 200-400Hz), you will get sicker tone by adding proper Bass guitar tone to your mix. So 1) Setup new strings and input levels 2) Setup as minimal setup in mixer as possible (overdrive or 2 overdrives in series (I personally use this trick, but second one without any tweaks or boosts just as additional filter and gives a bit more tightiness), amp sim you would like to choose, IR. Play in that setup with IR's and amp settings to get some decent (not awesome) tone, after that 3) add EQ's and polish it (try to find that decent tone so, that at EQing stage you will not need to boost anything (DONT boost your bass on guitars, let your bassist or bass tone do his job, even if sound thin - leave it thin and just add bass track and mix it). After Bass track is added, level it correctly, mix and EQ it (again dont boos 200-400 range, it will make your tone only muddier. Double track guitars. No quad tracking, unless your playing skills as precise and tight as Josh's. Instead of double tracking I use next trick - as I said I use 2 overdrives in series, so second one also is used as stereodizer, it shoud have some switches like asymmetrical clipping or depth boost (also you can just slightly change tone knob setup up or down, very gentle and little), so you copy your full mixer track as first, but these tweaks just in opposite settings (for example, depth switch alone works good, if left track have set it off, then right will have on and vice versa). So I can just play it as doubletrack (stereo) live when setting the guitar tone (I'm lazy to record doubletracks every time). Set you mixer track output levels for guitar tone to -12 -10db. Maxing it on all tracks and have clippings will make it impossible for mastering mix. The real mixing secret is not how to get 4 perfect sounds and sum it ("mix") but how to find 4 awful tones that sound perfect (amazing) when blended and mixed together. So learn to blend awful tones in amazing mix. Stop running and hunting for perfect tones, samples. etc. It will not make your mixes sound amazing on it's own.
If you upload somewhere samples of how your mixes sound (soundcloud or so) and drop link here, then problem may be identified easier or more concrete tips may be given by someone.
In my experience I have different sound also and never as the one showed in some videos I tried to replicate, don't even try to replicate it and throw away that idea, just find your own on your PC setup with your soundcard interface. Amazing tones and sounds may be achieved even with only free stuff (VSt, IR's).
@El_Suertero Wow, that's a gold comment right there, thank you very much !
I already tried several EQ moves on my bass and guitars, I replicated tons of like Fabfilter Pro Q-3 settings and stuff like that. I let my bass carries the low frequencies and I cut my guitar tone around 80-120 Hz depending on the mix, more likely 90 Hz most of the time. Soloed, my rhythm guitar bus sounds thin indeed, but I stopped worrying about making the instrument sound good on its own, now I think my mix as a whole band. You're right about the muddy frequencies, I cut some of the 320 Hz or so, and I have a multiband compressor taming those 90-350 Hz. I really struggle finding the right balance between not enough and too much : most of the times, my guitar tone sounds thin AND muddy at the same time (weird), I have the feeling that everytime I hear a "whistle" or a "whoompf" and I cut it down, I get rid of those annoying frequencies but also the "character" of my tone itself at the same time. What starts with an improvement ends with a ruined, lifeless tone.
I tried both dual-tracking and quad-tracking guitars. Dual-tracked guitars sound way thinner in my mixes and I have to level their volume up to hear them properly, but they don't sound right. If I mute all my rhythm guitars, I'm quite satisfied with the sound of my mix, it might not sounds perfect or professional yet, but it is a good starting point to work on. But as soon as I unmute my rhythm guitars, I hear lots of annoying frequencies, and the guitars sound like they don't belong to this mix. They sound OK on their own, but terrible in the context of a song. When I run my guitar plugins in standalone mode (I have several Neural DSP plugins and STL Amphub), I come up with tones that I like (some that I really dig in and enjoy playing), but they don't work in the mix, they don't even have the same flavourwhen I hear them in my DAW (my master bus isn't even doing that much).
Also you mentionned gain level, and you did right because I should have talk about it in my previous comment : even with the gain at the minimum, with the line or inst button pulled of, I got clipping. I tried several guitars and they all clip. They don't all have the same pickups. I had a Focusrite Scarlett Solo audio interface, and I bought a Behringer UMC 204HD if remind correctly, and they both clip. I tried Josh's Tonality plugin (the free version for 15 days I think) and when I played the exact same presets that Josh demoed in several videos, I found that I had waaaayyyy too much gain, and the tone that I got was nowhere near as tight, full and incisive as Josh's was. My rhythm guitar bus is about -10dB in my mix. Also I experienced with several string gauges on my guitars (I have guitars in several tuning from E standard to B standard and a 7 string as well), and I found that light gauges were more present in the mix and had more top end in their sound. The problem is : I play a lot of thrashy galloping riffs and light gauge strings are unplayable for me (great for soloing but not for riffing). In standard E, I use 10-49 strings on 24.75 and 25.5 inches scales. I saw Ola Englund videos where he used 10-48 in Drop C, and I can't understand how he plays them. I don't play drop tunings but for C standard use 12-60 or 12-62 string gauges. It does affect the tone quite a lot, but I can't go lighter than that for this tuning because it would be too floppy for me.
I have Discord if you want, I can send you audio files to check in. Thanks for taking the time man, I trully appreciate ! And sorry for my potential english mistakes 😅
@@ValentinGibouleau-d5v No worry. I don't use any discords or anything else. I play thin gauges 0.046 or even 0.042. As I get guitar set up with these, never tried any thicker. So I learned and trained with these. Have no problems with any gallops at any speed (just control of right hand movement amplitude, comes with consistent playing and practice) and also it even gives more fatty sound in lower tunings (I even sometimes have fun with Drop B or A on 0.042. About mix - there is producers meme exists with skeleton sleeping on mixing desk "The mix is almost perfect". So entire life isn't enough to get a perfect mix and you will be always unsatisfied more or less. So I would suggest just concentrate on guitar playing, composing cool harmonies for songs and tone is the last thing to worry about. You can always give it to peoples like Josh to make your amazing song sound huge, massive, powerfull and pro quality. But with bad song no Josh will help. P.S. I think it's very difficult to sound worse than black metal :_:
I love these, the fact that you use Cubase is great too. I use your STL stuff and your new drum library. Thanks for sharing all of your tricks!
Nocturnal Bass ftw!
Be cool to see you do some random AOJB song. I’m a massive KsE fan as much as Sylosis. Loved your Chimaira one too!
Would totally purchase a Cubase template from you with all your typical metal mix settings. Followed along with everything here and got it sounding pretty decent!
dude, do u have a cubase template? it will be nice
Hey Josh, what processing did you do on your master bus for this demo?
I’ll make sure to cover this more in the future. SSL style compressor, slow attack fast release, Flatline then Pro-L
What tuning is this? What velocities do you use for the midi bass?
Does the one shot samples come with the plugin?
Hi josh, as a beginner im quite wondering the reason you put two separate fabfilter Q3 for several tweaks (like you have some detailed makeup in the first q3 and another q3 belom ssl to low cut) instead of one in the beginning to tame the whole thing?
I usually like to use one initial instance of it for subtractive EQ, removing harsh frequencies or problem areas. Then the SSL style to boost, then Pro-Q 3 again to refine. If I did it all in Pro-Q 3 it would be too annoying to go in and tweak things when theres so much going on. No real benefit sound wise, just how I like to do it
@@JoshMiddletonOfficiali very much appreciate it, josh. Thanks so much for the tips. Definitely going to try it my own.
As good of a guitarist as you are, im very surprised to see you pull up a virtual bass. Why not just grab a 4 string and go for it?
Cus I dont own a bass. It’s way easier when I’m writing to not switch between them and keep a guitar on my lap. It’s also incredibly useful when visiting demos with riffs you cant remember writing and you can quickly relearn from the MIDI.
I've not played in a real bass to recordings in years. It's just faster and more convention to sequence it up knowing that modern sample banks will give all the humanising elements that are needed.
The time saved on not having to worry about fresh strings or intonation for yet another guitar is just too good.
@@nebularain3338 I save more time actually playing the instrument than fucking with Midi.... Its laziness in my opinion... but, we all have them dont we ;-)
josh and nik nocturnal when ?