If Reed insists the location of Herod's Temple was the temple mount, then he has to explain why there is no spring there, which is stated to be there in the OT since it is needed for the continuous animal sacrifices being performed, and also where is/was the location of the Roman military barracks, those of the Xth Legion, if it was'nt on the high ground of the temple mount.
@@joecaner Perhaps. But the Gihon Spring close by in the City of David is still active, mostly. This is most likely the location of the temple, the temple mount was the Roman garrison.
"Confusion with the Egyptian god Set: The ancient Egyptian god Set was often depicted as a man with the head of a donkey, and was associated with the Jewish god Yahweh." when he said "earliest evidence" could he provide a time for "earliest" - that would give us a sense of when it was!
Regarding the assemblies he says "We just don't know". I'm curious why he didn't mention Justin Martyr. He tells us exactly what 2nd century assemblies were like and what they did there.
I have grown to really appreciate Jacob’s interview style. Less flash and debate, more meticulous preparation and focus on illuminating the perspective of the guest
On Bethesda: the verse about ‘an angel’ is believed my many commentators to be a copyist’s marginal note that has crept into the text. The water that was added from a central mineral spring was a reddish colour and obvious when occasionally added to the immersion pool. When it overflowed the central spine where the fifth portico crossed between the two major pools.
Based on the orientation of the temple and stoa why doesn't the artist's pic of the temple mount NOT show the Antonia fortress on the northwest corner? It loomed over the temple and mount to send a clear message from Rome.
Regarding iconography, the archeological record only takes us back to the late 2nd century - 3rd century. It doesn't follow that just because that's the earliest we have, that means it started then. The number of Christians in the first and early 2nd century was small. Why do we expect anything to remain from them? It's unrealistic. Based on the archeology alone, some top scholars in the field acknowledge that BY the mid 3rd century, the Christian church had a standardized repertoire or iconography shared all around the empire. The simplest explanation for how that came to be is that they inherited it from an earlier period. And this is certainly cohesive with the assertion of an apostolic-era iconographic tradition. Otherwise, you'd have to make up a story for how Christians all around the empire in the 3rd century suddenly made a u-turn on iconography together at the same time and shared common icon forms.
@2:20 in the video---I am struck by your guests insistence that the graffiti on the Palatine hill was anti Christian. I wish Dr. Reed would have supported his claim with some other evidence. I challenge his opinion because the Romans were crucifying people for a very long time. This graffiti may have been the handiwork of an injured party who was mocking some guy named Amenos who apparently met his deserved fate. It may not have been a clear cut anti-Christian presentation.
From what I have seen, the graffito is of a young man in a position of obeisance before the crucified figure of... an onager? It is a human body with the head of an ass. Specifically, the writing said, "Alexomenos worships his god." In short, it is a mocking depiction of someone worshipping a crucified divinity. I have heard that this graffito comes from the ruin of a school for enslaved children belonging to elite households, so both Alexomenos and his antagonist might have been literate, educated slaves. We are very far from this world today.
Amenos is a very nick name ; the guy who says Amen to anything, the simple soul, fool, believer, a dumbo in general. The mockery from roman side is against the semitic main deity Melkiart, the Lord or EL, worshipped in the east but also in carthage and as far west as Cadiz (spain). This god was a rival to the roman supreme god Jupiter. EL was the sacrifical beast, the bull, dragon or donkey. A monster fish (cetos, satan, Aeolus) who became a cutey after having been slaughtered. EL was also associated with the Twin (winds and seas) who are the 2 axis to form a celestial cross that divides Heaven in 4 quarters and Earth in 4 corners. Jesus Christ is a further development of EL as the suffering Knight (servant). Jesus overlaps with EL and the winegod Dionysus so far as the godhead had to be consumed ; bread and wine. The 2 axis overlap with John and James, the boanerges sons of Zebedee. Sort of a Trinity.
@@bubbag8895 Does he go into more detail in his book or does he not? Why did you post this comment. If you make a comment do try something that resolves enigma and doesn't drive people crazy with more ambiguity. Friggin' activists....
The earliest representation of the Crucifixion is the Alexamenos graffito, scratched on plaster about AD 200 and found in 1856 in the Paedagogium on the Palatine Hill, possibly a school to train servants in the imperial household. That the archeological dating but apologetics dating is probably 30s CE!
That was really interesting. And I like to hear about the general things of the era, such as what the society was like, how people lived, and what the houses and buildings were like.
Dr. Reed's other book with Crossan, In Search of Paul is another good book that goes through the archeology and Roman setting for Paul and early christianity.
@@Cr-pj8bz General consensus is ~70,80, 90 and 110 for the Gospels.The destruction of the Temple would have been a precipitating factor in the appearance of Mark. But we don't know for sure when they appeared
Why would anyone "want to see truth of the gospels", if they already believe in the gospels? This sounds like a false allegation, or rather an excuse to explain the alleged 'forgery' opinion!
Iconography doesn't develop until the third or fourth generation of followers? I'm a SubGenius! We started with an icon! We took our savior from clip art and made the rest up ourselves! And as we like to say, "My God's dead, sorry about yours!" Praise "Bob"!!!
Hope you got his message on the James ossuary. Not trying to be mean- just trying to settle the matter so that the poor scholarship done with regard to it stops.
ON ALEXIMENOS: It was a prejudiced rumour of some in the Roman Empire that Jews worshipped a a donkey headed god. This may have originated in Egypt as representation of the Egyptian god Seth looked like a donkey-headed man to the uneducated (the head was actually a breed of hunting dog that was almost extinct in the Roman period) and Egyptians had long claimed Jews worked the evil god of the desert, Seth. Jesus is of course associated with Judaism.
He specifically said “it can’t confirm the *key* truth claims” and then listed a bunch of things that prove Christianity is true. You missed a very important word. Obviously he thinks archaeology can help confirm some things, otherwise he wouldn’t talk like that about Jesus.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou lol wut? Your first sentence is inconsistent. Evidence can’t “confirm” without being “key”. Dude flat out said that archaeology can’t confirm any part of the NT except the existence of a couple minor characters.
He was an apocalyptic would-be prophet who sincerely believed that the world was ending in his lifetime. As such, I don't think he gave a fig about politics.
@davis.fourohfour you're probably right. But he's a great tool for today's politics. When people start to get out from under their control, all they have to do is make sure to take a picture holding a bible, and voila! People stop thinking and questioning reality
"To Atum, O god who is complete, I offer my praise. O self-engendered one, you brought into being cool-headed Shu and Tefnut of the water-flow, wise and glorious two, born of your seed alone." A copy? Of the Lords prayer? 😂
Why does he keep saying "it doesn't prove the truth claims of the New Testament" ? He is not even being asked this question, yet he keeps repeating these words, time after time! He was actually being asked about what archaeology can tell us about the New Testament....not whether its "truth claims" are proven or not!! ....He seems obsessed with "truth claims", instead of telling us about the archaeology!
So. Alexamenos graffiti. “Alexamenos worship his aeon”. “Aeon does not mean “donkey”. It does not mean “god”. It means “age”. So “Alex worship his age”. Age of “donkey”can also be called “Taurus”. Just look at constellation and u will see the horns of Taurus can be seen as donkey ears. This is a joke about worship of “age of Taurus” But when graffiti was made it was no longer age of Taurus. It was age of Pisces ,the fish. Or between lamb of heaven and the fish. Good interview tho.
Sorry, "most serious historians and scholars think Jesus existed" - no evidence supplied or pushback on the survey that showed that, pushback how people's opinion proves anything or the insult of some scholars not being "serious".
Unfortunately these archeologists don't notice that the Shroud of Turin is an archeological artifact. This one artifact alone ultimately proves the resurrection. Seeing as Jesus resurrected, miracles are confirmed. Further, the case that Jesus was/is the Messiah prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures.
And no Jesus was not the messiah predicted in the Septuagint. Jesus is a fictional character in gospel stories to create a new remnant Hellenized Jewish cult movement post temple destruction.
Book Link: amzn.to/4gV0uT1
If Reed insists the location of Herod's Temple was the temple mount, then he has to explain why there is no spring there, which is stated to be there in the OT since it is needed for the continuous animal sacrifices being performed, and also where is/was the location of the Roman military barracks, those of the Xth Legion, if it was'nt on the high ground of the temple mount.
happy ny🎉
@@guygil It is possible for water tables drop and natural springs to run dry. No?
@@joecaner Perhaps. But the Gihon Spring close by in the City of David is still active, mostly. This is most likely the location of the temple, the temple mount was the Roman garrison.
"Confusion with the Egyptian god Set: The ancient Egyptian god Set was often depicted as a man with the head of a donkey, and was associated with the Jewish god Yahweh." when he said "earliest evidence" could he provide a time for "earliest" - that would give us a sense of when it was!
Another excellent podcast, Mr. Berman! I loved Dr. Reed’s enthusiasm.
Regarding the assemblies he says "We just don't know". I'm curious why he didn't mention Justin Martyr. He tells us exactly what 2nd century assemblies were like and what they did there.
He isn't professional in that field. Perhaps never had a chance to read.
Great video Jacob! More of these types of videos
On the James ossuary: one of ossuaries from the Talpiot tomb was stolen. Soil from the James ossuary matches soil from the Talpiot tomb.
I have grown to really appreciate Jacob’s interview style. Less flash and debate, more meticulous preparation and focus on illuminating the perspective of the guest
Archeology, which is basically an interpretation of what has been found in an excavation, merely reveals the cultural context of the Bible.
On Bethesda: the verse about ‘an angel’ is believed my many commentators to be a copyist’s marginal note that has crept into the text. The water that was added from a central mineral spring was a reddish colour and obvious when occasionally added to the immersion pool. When it overflowed the central spine where the fifth portico crossed between the two major pools.
Really nice video! Nice questions Jacob!
Based on the orientation of the temple and stoa why doesn't the artist's pic of the temple mount NOT show the Antonia fortress on the northwest corner? It loomed over the temple and mount to send a clear message from Rome.
Regarding iconography, the archeological record only takes us back to the late 2nd century - 3rd century. It doesn't follow that just because that's the earliest we have, that means it started then. The number of Christians in the first and early 2nd century was small. Why do we expect anything to remain from them? It's unrealistic. Based on the archeology alone, some top scholars in the field acknowledge that BY the mid 3rd century, the Christian church had a standardized repertoire or iconography shared all around the empire. The simplest explanation for how that came to be is that they inherited it from an earlier period. And this is certainly cohesive with the assertion of an apostolic-era iconographic tradition. Otherwise, you'd have to make up a story for how Christians all around the empire in the 3rd century suddenly made a u-turn on iconography together at the same time and shared common icon forms.
Why don't they focus on the research that shows the Masada Massacre never occurred! Too close to home?
Very interesting!
He is the best Professor I have heard!
@2:20 in the video---I am struck by your guests insistence that the graffiti on the Palatine hill was anti Christian. I wish Dr. Reed would have supported his claim with some other evidence. I challenge his opinion because the Romans were crucifying people for a very long time. This graffiti may have been the handiwork of an injured party who was mocking some guy named Amenos who apparently met his deserved fate. It may not have been a clear cut anti-Christian presentation.
From what I have seen, the graffito is of a young man in a position of obeisance before the crucified figure of... an onager? It is a human body with the head of an ass. Specifically, the writing said, "Alexomenos worships his god." In short, it is a mocking depiction of someone worshipping a crucified divinity. I have heard that this graffito comes from the ruin of a school for enslaved children belonging to elite households, so both Alexomenos and his antagonist might have been literate, educated slaves. We are very far from this world today.
Amenos is a very nick name ; the guy who says Amen to anything, the simple soul, fool, believer, a dumbo in general. The mockery from roman side is against the semitic main deity Melkiart, the Lord or EL, worshipped in the east but also in carthage and as far west as Cadiz (spain). This god was a rival to the roman supreme god Jupiter. EL was the sacrifical beast, the bull, dragon or donkey.
A monster fish (cetos, satan, Aeolus) who became a cutey after having been slaughtered.
EL was also associated with the Twin (winds and seas) who are the 2 axis to form a celestial cross that divides Heaven in 4 quarters and Earth in 4 corners. Jesus Christ is a further development of EL as the suffering Knight (servant). Jesus overlaps with EL and the winegod Dionysus so far as the godhead had to be consumed ; bread and wine. The 2 axis overlap with John and James, the boanerges sons of Zebedee. Sort of a Trinity.
Maybe he goes into more detail in his book
@@bubbag8895 Does he go into more detail in his book or does he not? Why did you post this comment. If you make a comment do try something that resolves enigma and doesn't drive people crazy with more ambiguity. Friggin' activists....
The Dead Sea Scrolls were not found in situ. Does that make them forgeries? What about the Nag Hamadi collection?
Dear Jacob, thanks a lot for the superb work and may 2025 be an even greater year for your channel.
Most interesting! Thank you for the discovery. Best wishes for the new year.
Im pretty sure he meant to say don quixote.
Are Christians considered to be the new people in this world?
Fascinating discussion. Thanks for having Dr. Johnathan Reed as a guest.
Nice to have an experienced man with a PhD and not a kid wearing a cowboy hat
Thanks to Jacob and Jonathan for this fascinating discussion. Great questions, as always, and straightforward, no BS, answers.
The earliest representation of the Crucifixion is the Alexamenos graffito, scratched on plaster about AD 200 and found in 1856 in the Paedagogium on the Palatine Hill, possibly a school to train servants in the imperial household.
That the archeological dating but apologetics dating is probably 30s CE!
LOL, that's the subject of my latest sermon (Sermon #10).
What about the Shroud? Missed the most studied artifact in history, ops. Realish?
The best signal-to-noise ratio youtube channel
That was really interesting. And I like to hear about the general things of the era, such as what the society was like, how people lived, and what the houses and buildings were like.
To know what religionists did and thought is the sum total of knowing a religion
This was a great discussion. I love Archaeology. I need to read Candida Moss' new book.
Dr. Reed's other book with Crossan, In Search of Paul is another good book that goes through the archeology and Roman setting for Paul and early christianity.
LOVE DR. REED'S WORK I HAVE SEEN HIM ON THE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC CHANNEL AND OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS NUMEROUS TIMES ❓️👍👀
The earliest Archaeology of 1st Christians is the Christian Hotel in Pompeii which is pre 79AD
Still highly debated and disputed.
Sounds dubious since the gospels weren't written until well after the fall of Jerusalem
@@iCupTV247 Mark?
@@mikev4621 modern scholars date GMark even later. The Gospels as we have them today date to the 2nd century
@@Cr-pj8bz General consensus is ~70,80, 90 and 110 for the Gospels.The destruction of the Temple would have been a precipitating factor in the appearance of Mark. But we don't know for sure when they appeared
Why would anyone "want to see truth of the gospels", if they already believe in the gospels? This sounds like a false allegation, or rather an excuse to explain the alleged 'forgery' opinion!
Iconography doesn't develop until the third or fourth generation of followers? I'm a SubGenius! We started with an icon! We took our savior from clip art and made the rest up ourselves! And as we like to say, "My God's dead, sorry about yours!" Praise "Bob"!!!
Edessa!!
Tomb of Flavium Donatellum?
Hope you got his message on the James ossuary. Not trying to be mean- just trying to settle the matter so that the poor scholarship done with regard to it stops.
ON ALEXIMENOS: It was a prejudiced rumour of some in the Roman Empire that Jews worshipped a a donkey headed god. This may have originated in Egypt as representation of the Egyptian god Seth looked like a donkey-headed man to the uneducated (the head was actually a breed of hunting dog that was almost extinct in the Roman period) and Egyptians had long claimed Jews worked the evil god of the desert, Seth. Jesus is of course associated with Judaism.
dr reed - "archeology can't confirm the truth claims of the new testament. so, anyway, when jesus was walking around..."
Wtf do you expect him to have a time machine
He specifically said “it can’t confirm the *key* truth claims” and then listed a bunch of things that prove Christianity is true. You missed a very important word. Obviously he thinks archaeology can help confirm some things, otherwise he wouldn’t talk like that about Jesus.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou
Christianity is not “true”.
At least the Pauline form of Christianity that survives today.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou lol wut? Your first sentence is inconsistent. Evidence can’t “confirm” without being “key”. Dude flat out said that archaeology can’t confirm any part of the NT except the existence of a couple minor characters.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYouHe also said that most of what we say is made up.
This is totally nonsense and lies how disgusting!!
Anathema to you and you guest. Totally 💯 unacceptable lies
www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=43671 The entire inscription is authentic!
Essentially Jesus opposed progress, let’s be honest. He would be called an extremists or a terrorist in today’s terminology🙄
And a socialist by the right
@ yes, agreed.
He was an apocalyptic would-be prophet who sincerely believed that the world was ending in his lifetime. As such, I don't think he gave a fig about politics.
@davis.fourohfour you're probably right. But he's a great tool for today's politics. When people start to get out from under their control, all they have to do is make sure to take a picture holding a bible, and voila! People stop thinking and questioning reality
The Lord’s Prayer was a copy from the Egyptian god of creation named Ptah..OOPS !!😮
"To Atum, O god who is complete, I offer my praise. O self-engendered one, you brought into being cool-headed Shu and Tefnut of the water-flow, wise and glorious two, born of your seed alone."
A copy? Of the Lords prayer? 😂
Nothing at all
Why does he keep saying "it doesn't prove the truth claims of the New Testament" ? He is not even being asked this question, yet he keeps repeating these words, time after time!
He was actually being asked about what archaeology can tell us about the New Testament....not whether its "truth claims" are proven or not!!
....He seems obsessed with "truth claims", instead of telling us about the archaeology!
Uhhhm ahhh, uuhhhhm.
So. Alexamenos graffiti. “Alexamenos worship his aeon”. “Aeon does not mean “donkey”. It does not mean “god”. It means “age”. So “Alex worship his age”. Age of “donkey”can also be called “Taurus”. Just look at constellation and u will see the horns of Taurus can be seen as donkey ears. This is a joke about worship of “age of Taurus” But when graffiti was made it was no longer age of Taurus. It was age of Pisces ,the fish. Or between lamb of heaven and the fish. Good interview tho.
Sorry, "most serious historians and scholars think Jesus existed" - no evidence supplied or pushback on the survey that showed that, pushback how people's opinion proves anything or the insult of some scholars not being "serious".
Fair enough but this is not science, you are free to provide your interpretation and explain why you believe what you believe.
There’s 4 times more evidence that Jesus existed than evidence that Claudius emperor of Rome existed
~it seems peculiar the name is so lacking in art!
Unfortunately these archeologists don't notice that the Shroud of Turin is an archeological artifact. This one artifact alone ultimately proves the resurrection. Seeing as Jesus resurrected, miracles are confirmed. Further, the case that Jesus was/is the Messiah prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures.
Nope its a total fake. If that is what you base your faith on it is flimsy. Please don't spread misinformation.
And no Jesus was not the messiah predicted in the Septuagint. Jesus is a fictional character in gospel stories to create a new remnant Hellenized Jewish cult movement post temple destruction.