Answered a few questions I had on the original build. Well Done, will have to give this one a try. I'll have to figure out how to do the slots with out a mill, but the rest looks like a simple project.
Awesome sir! Let me know if you come across any more questions. I've seen guys who have a ton of patience use a drill press and file... but heck you're time may be better spent bringing it to a local machine shop.
Quick thought for shimming the warped blades: Get yourself some "thermoplastic". It the plastic that gets soft when put in hot water. When you have a warped blade, soften some of that up, lay out enough to sit under the profile of the blade, and press the blade into it lightly on a flat surface so it takes up the gap. Once that plastic cools and sets, you can use that as your shim. Then you can soften it and reuse it. Us luthiers use this stuff all the time to make clamping cauls for oddly shaped places. I even use it to help flatten warped wood in the planer/thicknesser to avoid the same problem you're having. I'm sure you'll find tons of other used for it too. Stuff is indispensable.
Re not trying to surface-grind a warped blade: a common practice woodworkers use to thickness-plane rough, irregular lumber is to joint (surface-plane) one face of the board on a jointer prior to thickness-planing. Then, going to the planer, one feeds the stock into the machine registering the jointed face of the board down onto the planer table. Then after multiple passes, the cutter head will level off top surface. The resulting board is not only uniformly thick end-to-end, side-to-side, but also it is straight and perfectly flat. BUT If you thickness-plane a board without jointing one surface first, the planed board will be uniformly thick but will retain its original warp. In the face-jointing operation, it is important to register the concave side down against the bed jointer bed and to avoid putting downward pressure toward the center of the plank as it passes over the cutter-head. After multiple passes the ends of the board are planed away, finally converging at the center. When done, the bottom of the board will be nice and flat, while the top will have its original convexity. When you next thickness-plane the board, you’ll register this jointed face against the planer’s table, as described above. Okay, now I’m wondering if-at least in some cases- you started by putting the billet concave face DOWN onto the magnetic chuck and feeding it into the grinder in extra-small increments, you could produce one flat surface, so that when you flipped it over and worked the reverse side, everything would have a happy ending. This assumes that the bar is not so badly warped that the chuck won’t hold it firmly. I’ve been able to flatten an annealed bar sufficiently by cold-hammering. Then I use the platen on my grinder to flatten the billet. A pair of welding magnetic holdfasts keeps a good grip on things. Still, I want a surface-grinder and think I’ll try building the attachment you’ve so elegantly worked out.
I've only used one real surface grinder. It was off a ship LOL. Had an electromagnet and used coolant. The table moved back and forth and the feed rate was very small increments. Can't remember how small but it seems like it was in ten thousands. You had to advance the feed by hand. It used a grinding wheel instead of a belt. Your machine seems to produce very similar quality. Of course it could accept much larger pieces but hey yours is good enough for probably most jobs. I was going to a trade school when I used that grinder and the course was very useful. I was going to be a machinist but I guess most of those jobs went to China at that time. I really liked the instructor there, he was and old guy and really knew his stuff. Had me always making things for him. He had me repair an old Metal Lath that was over 100 years old an had an interesting planetary gear system. I did eventually get my own shop with cheap Chinese equipment but that's all I could afford. LOL I just use it for small projects and parts etc. Have learned a lot . That course has helped me in so many ways though. By the way my beard use to be red also, but now it's white. Age does that to you. I have now watched two of your videos and enjoyed them very much. You do an excellent job with them. I am so impressed that I subscribed. In the future, I will try not to be so long winded. I think perhaps another age related side effect LOL. I look forward to watching more of your content. Thanks again.
Your build inspired me to build one. I've got one more grinder to build, then I'm building this. I think I'll use an off the shelf chuck and make mine a horizontal system, if I can figure out how to raise and lower it while keeping it steady at the same time... Cheers, and thanks for the update!
Awesome man! Good luck with your build. Horizontal is the way to go I think, but they do have some made at a 45 degree angle which look pretty handy. Cheers sir
Happy to see your review. You did an awesome job on the build. I would love one but I’m not much the machinists. I look forward to seeing you do a tapered tang. Thanks James
Thanks mate, I was curious how it was going, it's good to see how well it's held up over time with decent use. Last night I was looking at some of the parts, linear rail etc last night and if I ordered yesterday they said I should see them by August 3rd onward... :) Thanks for the update.
The reason the blades aren't getting super hot is because of the aluminum you used to make the surface grinder attachment. Aluminum has a high thermal conductivity rating (about 200), much higher than steel has (which is about 35). Since the blade is touching the aluminum across half of the blade, it'll just keep sucking the heat out of the blade as you are grinding it. You can even use aluminum to quench blades, just by sandwiching the blade between to decent sized pieces of aluminum billets. I was watching a video of someone making a blade out of CPM-3V and that blade was ~1900ºF and it dropped to below 900ºF in 3 seconds with the aluminum plate quenching he was doing. It's crazy to see how much heat aluminum can suck out of a blade!
This is a cool attachment. Like many of us, time is never enough. While I have a surface grinder, it needs a complete rebuild. I am currently building a revolution from scratch for fettling castings. Having the ability to surface grind helps. In making blades for side escapement wood planes, the tang needs to taper down from 1/8 in to 1/16 in. This is done prior to heat treat. So any information on how to taper a blade would be quite helpful. Thanks.
Great demo and again, great build. May want to check out Ceramic trizact belts vs AO. I was sent a few by error a while back and was told that they are used alot of Surface Grinders. They are stiff and wear like iron.
Heck yeah man. I've tried out some of those "gator" trizact belts on there. They do work very well! Last a long time too. Leave a pretty good finish too. Thanks as always for stopping by.
Hey brother, have you considered a larger knob for the feed? It’s easier to make finer adjustments, with a larger knob. (I’ve got a nice large knurled aluminum one I could send you) Also possibly you could machine in a detent in a bigger knob for a set amount of push each click. Cheers, man thanks again for the detailed help in our chosen field.
I don't know if you have ever used a conventional surface grinder, but I have owned and used an oldie but goodie Brown and Sharpe #2 with an automatic feed. You mention removing between 1 and 2 thousandths at a time. I must admit that on the Brown and Sharpe machine and indeed on most small machines (mine had a 6x18 magnetic chuck) you are advised to only remove .0005 to. 001 at a time. It produces a much better finish and a much more consistent thickness. Also, the automatic feed does a lot to maintain a consistent finish. Perhaps you can improvise an automatic feed. I enjoyed the video very much, Sir.
Hey Bill, thanks for the comment. These SGA's (2x72 attachments) are called surface grinders, but are realistically only good for a full tang knife maker. For our purposes getting 1 tho along the flat of a full tang knife is more than enough precision. If you're going to be making folders, it's possible that a higher level of precision is needed. It would be cool to have a legit surface grinder one day! Cheers sir!
Good video. I need to build one of these. I don't know if you saw my thread on bladeforums, but I recently built one of JT's straightening hammers out of a ball pein hammer and a tap. A tungsten carbide insert will work better for hardened steel. Either way, it will leave a huge dent in annealed steel so be careful where you hit. JT says to hit the inside of the bow. Works great for me.
@@RedBeardOps It would be easier to shim (and easier on the finger tips) with a switchable magnet vise. Of course that would be more expensive and heavier. Have you thought about adding a counterweight?
@@GordieGii A counter weight is a good idea for sure! I think I'll likely build a grinder than can rotat 90 degrees before doing that though. (Like this one ruclips.net/video/5M5KmmJ_BHE/видео.html )
When you talk about using it after forging, if you're forging in bevels working it on the anvil then isn't using the surface grinder afterwards counterproductive? Machine is awesome though and I really appreciate your videos!
Thanks man. With the bevels roughed forged in the SGA will just flatten the ricasso and maybe the flats above your bevels if there are some. I have a video coining out soon where I do this and it works out pretty good. Cheers man
hi, thanks for the video, very informative. question. do you align all the magnets pointing the same way or are they alternative N.S.N.S etc. what procedure do you take to remove the blade from the machine - what is the holding power of hte magnets. What strength are the magnets?
The magnets were rotated so that they could be put into the slots easily. They're pretty darn strong. You can check out some videos on the channel around this videos date to see how I use the chuck. Cheers Charles!
Nice job on the build! I'm planning on making one myself. Where can I find the plans? I printed off the 2 pdfs from your first video but it doesn't show where all the holes and slots go.
If you measure the thickness right at the very edge of the tang (like the last .020") do you have any more variance than .001-.002"? It liked like in the video you measured about 1/4-3/8" in from the edge.
Good question. I'm not sure! If you have a very soft wheel I bet the ends (where the wheel contacts first) will be thinner. This could also happen I think if you feed to fast into the wheel. With a 90+ durometer wheel and slow feeding I bet it's minimized pretty good. Good thought man. Cheers
Hello sir. Have you considered using magnets with countersunk holes in it and then bolting them on to the aluminum bar instead of epoxing it? Would it be a good idea? I'm considering this for my build.
Hey Lucca, I think this is a good idea. I felt like it would be a bunch of work though. And these magnets seem brittle. Let me know how it goes! Have a great week!
Nice follow up surface grinder. Now I gotta spend more money! I do plan on building one, I did look at your drawings but having a bit of trouble understanding them. Are there any others? And do you have any stickers to trade? Thanks, Randy
Hey Randy! I don't have any stickers. In the original build video I put a link to the discussion thread on blade forums. There are many drawing and pictures in that thread that will likely help you out!
I have links to the parts and the wheel in this video description. I asked for the hardest they could give me. I'm not sure exactly what it is since it came direct from China and you can never be sure.... ruclips.net/video/_Q2aujE3pWk/видео.html
@@RedBeardOps think the wheel you have is good but from experience the smaller the diameter the better stock removal, also if you get water to it it will be better when i say water i have used mist spray similar to a garden sprayer you dont need a lot just a very fine mist of water and the cooling effect is dramatic surface is warm not hot and surface finish id better, had 25 years in the uk selling abrasive belt machines to manufacturers but still love to see the ones you guys make
@@devinopiela4573 @Anthony Strunk ; hey guys, Origin Blade Maker makes one of these for sale at a reasonable price. I'm really not tooled up to start making these. May be something House / Work can end up making!
If yall have any more questions on this machine, I'll do my best to answer them below! Cheers! 🙌 (Link to the original video is in the description AND Magnetic Chuck Upgrade - ruclips.net/video/_PYztWN2BiA/видео.html)
I’m so glad you made this follow up video! I literally was about to go back and watch your build video as I’m strongly considering making the plunge and getting the parts for the build. I do however need to finish my sayber osg grinder build first but I think this is a imperative attachment for any knife maker (that doesn’t have a standard) surface grinder. Now to choose between a full set of smooth contact wheels or these materials! 🤔 Thanks Red Beard!
Answered a few questions I had on the original build. Well Done, will have to give this one a try. I'll have to figure out how to do the slots with out a mill, but the rest looks like a simple project.
Awesome sir! Let me know if you come across any more questions. I've seen guys who have a ton of patience use a drill press and file... but heck you're time may be better spent bringing it to a local machine shop.
You are really succesful about technic solutions.I learnd a lot of know how from you.greetings from Turkey bro
Awesome! Cheers from Texas!
Quick thought for shimming the warped blades: Get yourself some "thermoplastic". It the plastic that gets soft when put in hot water. When you have a warped blade, soften some of that up, lay out enough to sit under the profile of the blade, and press the blade into it lightly on a flat surface so it takes up the gap. Once that plastic cools and sets, you can use that as your shim. Then you can soften it and reuse it.
Us luthiers use this stuff all the time to make clamping cauls for oddly shaped places. I even use it to help flatten warped wood in the planer/thicknesser to avoid the same problem you're having. I'm sure you'll find tons of other used for it too. Stuff is indispensable.
Very good idea sir! Didn't know that stuff existed
Kydex is a thermoplastic
Re not trying to surface-grind a warped blade: a common practice woodworkers use to thickness-plane rough, irregular lumber is to joint (surface-plane) one face of the board on a jointer prior to thickness-planing. Then, going to the planer, one feeds the stock into the machine registering the jointed face of the board down onto the planer table. Then after multiple passes, the cutter head will level off top surface. The resulting board is not only uniformly thick end-to-end, side-to-side, but also it is straight and perfectly flat. BUT If you thickness-plane a board without jointing one surface first, the planed board will be uniformly thick but will retain its original warp. In the face-jointing operation, it is important to register the concave side down against the bed jointer bed and to avoid putting downward pressure toward the center of the plank as it passes over the cutter-head. After multiple passes the ends of the board are planed away, finally converging at the center. When done, the bottom of the board will be nice and flat, while the top will have its original convexity. When you next thickness-plane the board, you’ll register this jointed face against the planer’s table, as described above.
Okay, now I’m wondering if-at least in some cases- you started by putting the billet concave face DOWN onto the magnetic chuck and feeding it into the grinder in extra-small increments, you could produce one flat surface, so that when you flipped it over and worked the reverse side, everything would have a happy ending. This assumes that the bar is not so badly warped that the chuck won’t hold it firmly. I’ve been able to flatten an annealed bar sufficiently by cold-hammering. Then I use the platen on my grinder to flatten the billet. A pair of welding magnetic holdfasts keeps a good grip on things. Still, I want a surface-grinder and think I’ll try building the attachment you’ve so elegantly worked out.
Thanks for your thoughts John! Very interesting stuff. I've gone the route of "not getting a warp in the first place." lol
I've only used one real surface grinder. It was off a ship LOL. Had an electromagnet and used coolant. The table moved back and forth and the feed rate was very small increments. Can't remember how small but it seems like it was in ten thousands. You had to advance the feed by hand. It used a grinding wheel instead of a belt. Your machine seems to produce very similar quality. Of course it could accept much larger pieces but hey yours is good enough for probably most jobs. I was going to a trade school when I used that grinder and the course was very useful. I was going to be a machinist but I guess most of those jobs went to China at that time. I really liked the instructor there, he was and old guy and really knew his stuff. Had me always making things for him. He had me repair an old Metal Lath that was over 100 years old an had an interesting planetary gear system. I did eventually get my own shop with cheap Chinese equipment but that's all I could afford. LOL I just use it for small projects and parts etc. Have learned a lot . That course has helped me in so many ways though. By the way my beard use to be red also, but now it's white. Age does that to you. I have now watched two of your videos and enjoyed them very much. You do an excellent job with them. I am so impressed that I subscribed. In the future, I will try not to be so long winded. I think perhaps another age related side effect LOL. I look forward to watching more of your content. Thanks again.
Hey Steven, glad you're enjoying these! If only I had the space for a real surface grinder! LOL... would be awesome. Have a great week sir!
Since I Got my TZ surface grinder it has been a game changer. I try to get my forged knives as flat as I can but this makes them perfect.
Heck yeah! Very handy to have around!
Your build inspired me to build one. I've got one more grinder to build, then I'm building this. I think I'll use an off the shelf chuck and make mine a horizontal system, if I can figure out how to raise and lower it while keeping it steady at the same time... Cheers, and thanks for the update!
Awesome man! Good luck with your build. Horizontal is the way to go I think, but they do have some made at a 45 degree angle which look pretty handy. Cheers sir
Happy to see your review. You did an awesome job on the build. I would love one but I’m not much the machinists. I look forward to seeing you do a tapered tang. Thanks James
Heck yeah, thanks man! And thanks for your comment as always. 🙌
Thanks mate, I was curious how it was going, it's good to see how well it's held up over time with decent use. Last night I was looking at some of the parts, linear rail etc last night and if I ordered yesterday they said I should see them by August 3rd onward... :) Thanks for the update.
Sweet man! Yeah the shipping takes a while from over seas. Good luck with your build sir!
Incredible build
Thank you very much sir!
The reason the blades aren't getting super hot is because of the aluminum you used to make the surface grinder attachment. Aluminum has a high thermal conductivity rating (about 200), much higher than steel has (which is about 35). Since the blade is touching the aluminum across half of the blade, it'll just keep sucking the heat out of the blade as you are grinding it. You can even use aluminum to quench blades, just by sandwiching the blade between to decent sized pieces of aluminum billets. I was watching a video of someone making a blade out of CPM-3V and that blade was ~1900ºF and it dropped to below 900ºF in 3 seconds with the aluminum plate quenching he was doing. It's crazy to see how much heat aluminum can suck out of a blade!
Good points Bill! Thanks for your comment.
This is a cool attachment. Like many of us, time is never enough. While I have a surface grinder, it needs a complete rebuild. I am currently building a revolution from scratch for fettling castings. Having the ability to surface grind helps. In making blades for side escapement wood planes, the tang needs to taper down from 1/8 in to 1/16 in. This is done prior to heat treat. So any information on how to taper a blade would be quite helpful. Thanks.
Hey Dev, sorry I haven't done much tapering
Great demo and again, great build. May want to check out Ceramic trizact belts vs AO. I was sent a few by error a while back and was told that they are used alot of Surface Grinders. They are stiff and wear like iron.
Heck yeah man. I've tried out some of those "gator" trizact belts on there. They do work very well! Last a long time too. Leave a pretty good finish too. Thanks as always for stopping by.
Nice build !
Thank you very much sir!
Hey brother, have you considered a larger knob for the feed? It’s easier to make finer adjustments, with a larger knob. (I’ve got a nice large knurled aluminum one I could send you) Also possibly you could machine in a detent in a bigger knob for a set amount of push each click.
Cheers, man thanks again for the detailed help in our chosen field.
Thank you sir! I like that. I have a video coming out on Friday on this machine. Made a few upgrades.
I don't know if you have ever used a conventional surface grinder, but I have owned and used an oldie but goodie Brown and Sharpe #2 with an automatic feed. You mention removing between 1 and 2 thousandths at a time. I must admit that on the Brown and Sharpe machine and indeed on most small machines (mine had a 6x18 magnetic chuck) you are advised to only remove .0005 to. 001 at a time. It produces a much better finish and a much more consistent thickness. Also, the automatic feed does a lot to maintain a consistent finish. Perhaps you can improvise an automatic feed. I enjoyed the video very much, Sir.
Hey Bill, thanks for the comment. These SGA's (2x72 attachments) are called surface grinders, but are realistically only good for a full tang knife maker. For our purposes getting 1 tho along the flat of a full tang knife is more than enough precision. If you're going to be making folders, it's possible that a higher level of precision is needed. It would be cool to have a legit surface grinder one day! Cheers sir!
You Sir have some wicked skills.
Thank you Grady! Have a great weekend!
Good work! Soon i will try make my own.
Heck yeah!
I love your video man. Good job
Thanks Bull! Glad you liked it!
That’s sweet! Makes truing 108X steel a cinch (and you get a free workout!)
🇬🇧🤜⚡️🤛🇺🇸
Lol, that's the truth!
THANK YOU for the video. I would love to know where you got the respirator.
Again thanks
I love that thing. I think it has been in and out of stock lately due to COVID... but here it is. Resp-O-Rator - amzn.to/2M6PMN7
I have those same dumbells, such a great product
Heck yeah they are! Solid!
Fantastic work. Can you make a magnetic knife jig next for us to copy please
Glad you liked it Soctt! My list of projects is long!
Good video. I need to build one of these.
I don't know if you saw my thread on bladeforums, but I recently built one of JT's straightening hammers out of a ball pein hammer and a tap. A tungsten carbide insert will work better for hardened steel. Either way, it will leave a huge dent in annealed steel so be careful where you hit. JT says to hit the inside of the bow. Works great for me.
Thank you sir! I'll need to go look for that! Sounds really cool. Have a great weekend! 🙌
@@RedBeardOps Thanks. You too!
you could put fewer magnets, less problems with the warps issue
Not a bad idea! Would have less holding power though! Good thoughts 🙌
@@RedBeardOps It would be easier to shim (and easier on the finger tips) with a switchable magnet vise. Of course that would be more expensive and heavier. Have you thought about adding a counterweight?
@@GordieGii A counter weight is a good idea for sure! I think I'll likely build a grinder than can rotat 90 degrees before doing that though. (Like this one ruclips.net/video/5M5KmmJ_BHE/видео.html )
@@RedBeardOps All I have to do now is build a switchable magnetic vise and learn how to make a YT video.
if you pull a beard hair and add it to the quench fluid.... it will keep the blades from warping
Hot damn! Thanks man! I will try this for sure. Sounds legit to me! 🙌
When you talk about using it after forging, if you're forging in bevels working it on the anvil then isn't using the surface grinder afterwards counterproductive? Machine is awesome though and I really appreciate your videos!
Thanks man. With the bevels roughed forged in the SGA will just flatten the ricasso and maybe the flats above your bevels if there are some. I have a video coining out soon where I do this and it works out pretty good. Cheers man
@@RedBeardOps awesome! Look forward to it 😊
hi, thanks for the video, very informative.
question.
do you align all the magnets pointing the same way or are they alternative N.S.N.S etc.
what procedure do you take to remove the blade from the machine - what is the holding power of hte magnets.
What strength are the magnets?
The magnets were rotated so that they could be put into the slots easily. They're pretty darn strong. You can check out some videos on the channel around this videos date to see how I use the chuck. Cheers Charles!
Nice job on the build! I'm planning on making one myself. Where can I find the plans? I printed off the 2 pdfs from your first video but it doesn't show where all the holes and slots go.
Hey Jared, check out the blade forums thread I linked to in the description. I think that will help you greatly.
Blade Forums SGA Thread - www.bladeforums.com/threads/home-built-surface-grinder.1532559/
@@RedBeardOps thank you, I will check it out
Great review. How much money you think you have in materials?
Hey Robert, I think I had an estimate in my original video. I think it was around $500
If you measure the thickness right at the very edge of the tang (like the last .020") do you have any more variance than .001-.002"? It liked like in the video you measured about 1/4-3/8" in from the edge.
Good question. I'm not sure! If you have a very soft wheel I bet the ends (where the wheel contacts first) will be thinner. This could also happen I think if you feed to fast into the wheel. With a 90+ durometer wheel and slow feeding I bet it's minimized pretty good. Good thought man. Cheers
Hello sir. Have you considered using magnets with countersunk holes in it and then bolting them on to the aluminum bar instead of epoxing it? Would it be a good idea? I'm considering this for my build.
Hey Lucca, I think this is a good idea. I felt like it would be a bunch of work though. And these magnets seem brittle. Let me know how it goes! Have a great week!
@@RedBeardOps Thanks man!
I couldn't find how deep you milled the slots for the magnets. Could you tell me?
@@farmaproderma Just deep enough to leave 1/8'' on top of the magnets.
Thanks a lot sir. Have a great day
Nice follow up surface grinder. Now I gotta spend more money! I do plan on building one, I did look at your drawings but having a bit of trouble understanding them. Are there any others? And do you have any stickers to trade? Thanks, Randy
Hey Randy! I don't have any stickers. In the original build video I put a link to the discussion thread on blade forums. There are many drawing and pictures in that thread that will likely help you out!
Would it work if you covered the magnetic chuck with painters tape keep it from getting clogged up with metal?
Not a bad idea. I made a recent upgrade to this machine that solved the issue. ruclips.net/video/_PYztWN2BiA/видео.html
just subscribed great video what dia wheel do you use and what shore hardness is it.
I have links to the parts and the wheel in this video description. I asked for the hardest they could give me. I'm not sure exactly what it is since it came direct from China and you can never be sure.... ruclips.net/video/_Q2aujE3pWk/видео.html
@@RedBeardOps think the wheel you have is good but from experience the smaller the diameter the better stock removal, also if you get water to it it will be better when i say water i have used mist spray similar to a garden sprayer you dont need a lot just a very fine mist of water and the cooling effect is dramatic surface is warm not hot and surface finish id better, had 25 years in the uk selling abrasive belt machines to manufacturers but still love to see the ones you guys make
So when are you going to start producing and selling these? Could be lucrative...
I was thinking the same, would you be interested in selling them?
@@devinopiela4573 @Anthony Strunk ; hey guys, Origin Blade Maker makes one of these for sale at a reasonable price. I'm really not tooled up to start making these. May be something House / Work can end up making!
originblademaker.com/product/belt-grinder-2x72-attachment/ - Here is the SGA I mentioned
Building in a chain via pulley counterweight mechanism might prove handy if possible. Unless you like the excercise...jk
good idea Evan! It hasn't been too bad so far
If yall have any more questions on this machine, I'll do my best to answer them below! Cheers! 🙌 (Link to the original video is in the description AND Magnetic Chuck Upgrade - ruclips.net/video/_PYztWN2BiA/видео.html)
I’m so glad you made this follow up video! I literally was about to go back and watch your build video as I’m strongly considering making the plunge and getting the parts for the build. I do however need to finish my sayber osg grinder build first but I think this is a imperative attachment for any knife maker (that doesn’t have a standard) surface grinder. Now to choose between a full set of smooth contact wheels or these materials! 🤔 Thanks Red Beard!
Hey man, really appreciate your comment. Glad you found it useful! I was a little hesitant at first, but I'm really happy I built this thing..