Just hit 3,000,000 subscribers!! Big thank you to everyone who has subscribed, watched, and supported this channel over the years! You sure do know how to make a nerdy kid with a whiteboard feel special. Thanks for being curious, for learning about cars with me, and for joining in on the discussion in the comments in an overwhelmingly positive manner. I can't thank you all enough!! 🙏
Hey Jason, to reduce some background noise in scenarios when cars don’t have dampening, be quiet for at least 15 seconds while driving. Open your audio track in Audition. Select at minimum 10 seconds of that no taking segment. Capture the noise print from the effects > noise reduction menu. Select your entire track and apply an effect called noise reduction process. Adjust to your liking.
@@EngineeringExplained I think he's saying that if you want to decrease that, then here's a way to do it. Some youtubers don't remove road noise because they don't know how, and some don't remove road noise because they don't want to. This will give you a choice that you didn't have before. I love road noise, but would be happy if it were decreased ever so slightly, because it will accentuate the road noise between the talking and help break up the video a bit.
@@C.I... Agreed. Since the sample used for noise canceling will be at a specific speed, it will sound off as the vehicle changes speed and road texture changes.
I love that Jason gets to review and spend the day with cars like this then talks about steering racks. Ultimately I’m watching no matter what but it’s just hilarious.
It's great how you explained steering from a driver's perspective to those of us who don't get the opportunity to drive cars like these. I really enjoy your videos, and congrats on 3 million subscribers!
@@EngineeringExplained Has anybody tried to put (simple, piezo?) microphones in the suspension and acustic (vibration) transducers in the steering wheel, so you can have all the assistance and still the "feel"?
@@TheChzoronzon That won't give the steering feedback. When we say feedback, it is referred to feeling the bumps and undulations in the road that the tyres come in contact with. It's like, when you hit a pothole, the steering wheel twitches slightly, except it's for much much smaller imperfections. I think I probably didn't explain it well enough, sorry. But, that's the basic idea. And even better than what mclarens doing, is the one by GMA on their T.50. It is basically an electric rack, but it only assist when at small speeds, like parking or crawling.
@@naseeb46 I don't have the subject so clear... a microphone captures vibrations... an electro-acoustic exciter, similar to those used in DMLs, reproduces vibrations. The feeling you get in any steering feedback is just that, vibrations. There's nothing magical or special about it. They can travel through a solid metalic medium (the steering axle), or if well done, through wire... it's a tech we have pretty nailed, you surely have heard about microphone & loudspeakers...which are exactly that, vibrations captured, sent through wire and then reconstituted... to a much more precise degree than what I'm talking about, I'm pretty sure that accurately getting the timbre of a violin is more difficult than bumps in a road...
This is why this channel is the bomb. He'll tell you how something works, but then in a separate video like this, he'll tell you WHY IT MATTERS and how different driving systems affect the experience for the layman. Thanks for the context Jason!
He explains all of these details while driving at the same time. My Wife: Where do you want to eat? Me While Driving: I can't think right now. I have to maneuver around this other driver.
A huge advantage of direct electric steering is new features like self driving or auto parking. But I guess if you are buying a McLaren, you probably want to do the driving yourself.
I just don't see why you couldn't do that with electro-hydraulic power steering. Sure, it's difficult to do with pure hydraulic steering (ie., pump driven off the engine), but when it's a completely detached system (ie., the pump is driven by an independently controlled electric motor), you can adjust pump-provided flow/pressure in an infinitely variable way and thus, as I (intuitively) understand it, achieve the same effect. Or am I missing something about how the hydraulics fundamentally work?
@@mnxs electric hydraulic steering is no different/smarter than any hydraulic steering. The electric hydraulic pump just makes high pressure oil. You can remove an engine driven pump and replace it with an electric pump without any other modifications. Any hydraulic system, would still require an extra electric motor to drive the steering wheel for any self steering, don’t mater if it’s electric pump or engine driven.
You're absolutely correct about the additional inertia the motor adds to the system which filters out the higher frequencies. I would be interested to see how Porsche and Ferrari solves this problem with their electric systems. Porsche especially has pioneered EPS and I've heard the their cars still have wonderful feedback. GT3 being a case in point.
Did anyone else get a little nervous seeing him jerk the wheel while next to a guardrail and certain doom?! I'm impressed that he has taken the time to record at least two separate video segments during what I'm sure was a very limited time in the car. Hopefully there's more of this great car coming. Btw... congratulations on 3m! I've only been here for a year and am looking forward to many more. Keep up the great work!
The car got dirty so quickly because you are in LA, I got my car washed, drove it 0.2 miles home to park it in a covered spot, came out 2 hours later and it was covered in dust.
My dad grew up in Pittsburgh in the 1950s. He said that, on bad days, motorists would have to sweep the mill dust off the car, like a dusting of snow, before going for a drive. "Dirty air," today, simply doesn't hold a candle to how it used to be.
@@bcubed72I mean, *any* dirty air is bad air, so just because it was even worse 70 years ago doesn't mean it's not worth improving, or indeed complain about. But perspective is nice, sure.
Jason, speaking of torsional forces on the steering column, have you ever noticed the rubber isolator system on the Crosstrek? Instead of a solid column, the damper is put there on purpose to reduce the feedback from the steering, which is also electric assisted. The STI's came with a solid column for the improved feedback. I've put a Perrin damper lock kit on mine, and it made a huge improvement in the road feel for little money and effort. Congrats on 3M! Awesome work!
There are plenty of youtubers out there with way more subs and can't even touch this much content. But lets not compare and just be thankful for these types of channels giving us supreme content. CHEERS E.E
The best solution for a sporty car? GMA has electric power steering mounted on the column, not the rack. The power steering works only at very low speed, then it completely disengages, so you have no assistance.
I'd love a video explaining the tech behind Cadillacs Magnasteer in the late 90s early 00s cars... I had a 99 Deville and it didn't have a head gasket but boy did that Magnasteer make driving so leisurely
My Grand Prix had the Magnasteer system on it too, I thought it was great. It was variable so it was super light at parking lot speeds and comfortably heavy on the highway
Steering feel is most useful at the limits of tire adhesion - the more feel the faster one can react to a loss of traction and know how much counter-steering to put in. Prob don't need this kind of feel unless on the track; though it can be helpful in emergency conditions if you've practiced counter-steering. Awesome video - cool to learn how the high-end manufacturers do steering.
Like the hydraulic steering on my e92. Driving something with electric power steering feel like a video game, feels good to go back to hydraulic afterwards..nice and heavy with wider tires
It’s not the heaviness of the steering necessarily that’s desirable but the way it gives road feedback & feeling. You can have electric steering wheels with heavy feel. My Tesla has a heavy steering feel. And it is very accurate & immediate. And quite decent for electric steering. But it is muted in the feel & feedback that you get from the tires back to the steering.
Basically, I just heard an excuse from a McClaren engineer that they don't know how to tune a servo system to achieve their desired response. I understand that there's a specific response and behavior desired in a car like this, and perhaps just like an audiophile there are good reasons to incorporate older tech as a simpler way to get those desired results. Yes, electric motor rotors have mass, but AC servo tech is such these days that you have control loops in the microseconds and motors that can accelerate at mind-blowing speeds. In some respect, it sounds like they need to use an additional encoder on the opposite side of the steering system to maintain responsiveness while permitting more of the road feedback through the starting column. No doubt, there's a lot of development to make it all behave as desired. Taking it to extremes, you could even incorporate a temperature model into the control loop to change the feel to mimick fluid temperature change through the driving cycle. As for most daily drivers, electric power steering is now the preferred system due to a variety of advantages it offers, as well as tech that it enables, such as lane keep assist, auto parallel parking, trailer backing, all the way to various levels of automated steering. Hydraulic assist just isn't innately capable of doing these things.
What an awesome video. This video should be used as a reference for engineers that work on steering. I've always been fascinated by tuning steering feel/feedback. One of my favorite videos you've done so far!!
Honestly, I love that my old MR2 has no power steering. I really wouldn't have it any other way. Serious question though: is power steering really all that important for MR or RR layout cars? None (relatively speaking) of the weight is over the front axle, and so the steering is inherently lighter than in a front engined car, right?
As an owner of a car with electric steering (2017 Mustang Ecoboost) It is my LEAST favorite thing about my car (Including the terrible remote mount shifter), so floaty and disconnected. I HATE IT.
my 15 ZL1 has electronic power steering and I love it, no issues so far. Some of the best steering i've ever felt in a car, period. Is this system similar?
If I were sitting where you are driving that car, I would be smiling, not making a video. Congratulations on hitting 3 Million subscribers; you earned it.
One thing I find funny is my little old 98 Saturn SL2 has a variable effort hydraulic steering system when alot of cars even later on never did (until electric steering obviously). It simply has a little electronic valve in the power steering pump that lowers the hydraulic pressure the faster you go and at highway speeds it's bypassed almost entirely giving you a manual rack feel.
@@DonziGT230 Not really in the american domestic market at least. I can see it being common on european and maybe japanese vehicles. Only american vehicles I can really think of that had it were some 90s-2000s Cadillacs, 1st gen Chevy Traverse (and its relatives) and I think the Corvette. I'm sure there were others but not many.
After driving an old Miata, yes, I can say full hydraulic feels AMAZING. However why do they feel different? This video explains why McLaren uses this electro-hydrolic, but NOT why hydraulic feels so different to electric. I mean yeah, "micro vibrations" and motor inertia that Jason mentioned, but there's so much more. In my old Miata, I could feel exactly how much weight was on the front axle, plus it would tighten up as you start to load up the steering rack in a corner. I've never felt that in any electric rack load up in a corner as much as that Miata (or my old Accord for that matter too)
I had mazda mx-5 1999 and the belt that drove the hydraulic power steering pump failed. I immediately experienced the extra force required especially at parking but I started to get used of it and kept it for years that way. It was definitely getting great feedback on the steering wheel and you easily can notice when you lose traction. I've owned many cars since that first mx-5 and and tried most brands and their normal everyday cars but I can't like any other brand than Mazda because of the steering and handling that they provide. My Mazda 3 today also has electro-hydraulic power steering and I like that Mazda gives attention to these details on everyday cars for all of us that can't afford much more expensive sport cars.
The first gen Mazda 3 actually has hydroelectric steering as well, and of the Mazda's I've driven it's my favorite steering feel, so maybe McLaren has a point?
I used to drive a 2005 Saturn VUE with electric power steering, and it was fantastic! It's not a car where you need much feedback through the steering wheel, but it was still fun to drive. As a bonus, the electronic power steering never needed any maintenance. Between that and the manual transaxle, about the only regular maintenance it needed was oil changes.
My BRZ steering feels really nice although i think its electric only. This would make sense because a lot of the vibration and things do not come through to the steering wheel, but the feel for turning the car is very nice. Apparently for the second generation they deleted some features from the eyesight system to prevent it from having a negative impact on steering feel, which is a nice consideration.
The BRZ has a manual steering rack, with the electric assist motor located on the column. This tends to give a better feel, than the rack-mounted motor that brands like BMW use. :)
It's mostly due to the fact it's mid-engine...the engine being behind you... This is evidwnt in the most sold/successful/cheapest mid-engine sports car in history: Toyota MR2. The ones that have powersteering has electrohydraulic power steering.
I converted both my Miatas to OEM manual racks, and I love them. Not great in parking lots, but even though I'm nearly 62 years old, 5'5" tall, and can barely do 10 push-ups, I'd never go back to hydraulic. I just love the feeling. (I'm pulling into and out of a parking spots maybe 1% of the time I'm in the cars?)
not saying you are wrong or anything towards the end, but i can definitely tell you when i am driving a a electric steered vehicle. my first time driving one of the newer GLEs a few year ago was my first experience with electric steering and i had no idea it was electric, but it felt so different i knew it was something much different than hydraulic.
Fiat Chrysler put electric/hydraulic steering some years ago in Dodge Challengers and Chargers. When I got my 13 Challenger, I looked for the steering reservoir to find out the car has a fully contained electric/hydraulic steering system. The system works very well. The power load on the engine got transferred to the alternator, since the pump is now gone. The electric/hydraulic steering put high cyclical loads on the alternator. The extra load caused some alternators to fail and led to the P60 alternator recall. Mine was replaced without any problems with the original alternator. The systems works very well and I have no complaints. Its interesting to discuss this on a McLaren, though many cars today have electric/hydraulic steering.
This is the first car I've owned with electric steering, this is the first time I've had no issues with leaking hydraulic hoses or replacing steering racks due to rotten hoses. Also the wheel will react to quick inputs a lot faster than hydraulic systems.
yes there is a HUGE cost/maintenance (or lack thereof) benefit to be had for the masses fitting an all electric rack hence another reason OEMS have switched. i've gotta replace a hydraulic rack now for a 2nd time that i recently replaced. 1st time it was leaking like a sieve (super old) but now the replacement (a rebuild) is loose on one side so the steering is wandering.
@@phillyphil1513 Also the hydraulic system is always working, while the electric motor only works when you turn the wheel. And the critics that say that the steering feels numb is BS, I drove a Scion FRS and the steering was super precise and quick to react.
I agree. The leaking lines also had the potential to cause rubber bushings to break down and leave terrible messes. Not to mention the headache of removing them. I had to make my own out of brake line for my old Honda and eventually ripped it all out because I was tired of the leaks!
All I know from personal experience, is that my EPS sometimes is inexplicably heavy or noisy, or both. And I've never had issues with hydraulic PS, even neglected 30 year old systems.
Hey Jason, your channel is awesome. I’m always on the hunt for content where I can learn something whilst being entertained. You never fail to do this, kudos to you!
The thing about having different level of power assistance depending on speed is not a new thing and has been around at least for fifteen years. My 2005 Range Rover has such an adaptive system. It does not use an electric pump but has a solenoid that adjusts the response of spool valve in the hydraulic ram. It is controlled by an ECU but the rest of the system is entirely mechanical/hydraulic, including the pump which is driven by a belt off the crankshaft. It works great, giving a very light steering when parking, reversing etc but then tightening up above I think some 15MPH or so.
i own both hydraulic (constant flow) and an electronic assisted cars. i can assure you i can feel the differece even during normal driving, the electronic assisted car has a sportier set ( the wheel is harder to turn) but at the same time it isolates you a lot more from the road. in the hydraulic assisted car i can feel exactly when the tires are at their limit and the car begins to understeer and correcting before actually understeering, with the electronic assisted car is more challenging.
I remember reading an article online where some car reviewers were discussing their driving impressions of a certain car (I think it was a BMW). The reviewers in that article went on to say that the current car with the electric steering actually felt more engaging to drive than the previous gen with the hydraulic steering.
It’s all about the system and how it’s set up and tuned. And where the motor is on the system. I find the ones that have the motor just under the steering wheel give the best amount of road feel. It’s basically just a traditional steering rack with some assist put into it
That’s a horrible take coming from someone who’s owned an e90 m3 and driven a new m3. They feel completely numb and i couldn’t tell the difference between that and a the new Honda crv.
A steering column's lack of torsional stiffness also stems from the electronic power steering's inline torque sensor in many configurations. With the car completely off, cars with EPS have some slop both ways before engaging the rack. That slop has some resistance, but would certainly absorb some road feel.
11:03 Poor fly wanted to share its engineering knowledge on the white surface below, but you disturbed its effort... I expected YOU would understand =D
I LOVE this CHANNEL so much. You are so nice to listen to. I always learn something new. BUT - 3m subs and still no proper bass/quality focused mic :D The sound needs improvement so much :)
I am confused. The 7k Fiat Panda of my mom 15 years ago already had that: It had regular steering assist but also a button called "city mode" - when you pushed that button steering got much, much easier, and you basically could steer with a single finger - was great in parking lots etc. Why is that now considered groundbreaking technology in uberexpensive sports cars 15 years later?
Very neat, I like that steering button! Similar to today's "comfort" vs "sport" modes that are common for steering. Also as mentioned, that they're using hydraulic steering is not groundbreaking, it's been done plenty, but most have moved onto electric power steering, and this video explains why McLaren has not.
I once had a Fiat Panda as a rental car in Italy and was wondering why the steering was so insanely light as I zoomed (as much as you can zoom in a Panda) down the autostrade. It was only the next day when I was driving in daylight that I saw the City Mode button was on.
I'm sure it's different when you're actually driving with all of the other sensations, but after 5 minutes I found the interior noise was annoying. It's basically a drone, I guess a combination of engine, road and wind noise
If I’m not mistaken, last time when I looked at an IndyCar, their wheel hubs had small retainer clips that will also retain the single lug nut when it goes on. Some street single hub systems don’t use that, and I don’t know why they wouldn’t because you’d always want that extra level of safety there. Plus you pay an extra $2000 for that single hub system, and if you really want what race cars have, you may as well get the extra retaining clip with it.
They often either torque on so tight it takes special tools to get them on and off, or they sometimes have a lock built into the nut. Mostly because it makes it look smoother and cleaner. With the IndyCar they’re not as worried about looks compared to performance.
I've noticed in *budget* cars (well, by that I mean not-luxury, cars middle-class can easily afford) the difference between electric and hydraulic steering was the dead-zone in assistance. It's like the electronic steering torque meter wasn't as sensitive as the hydraulic version. That or there was a programming difference designed to avoid the overheating of the drive motor (which the hydraulic system isn't concerned about because constant fluid flow).
Question for you Jason: What specifically makes this steering system so good at providing feedback? Surely not all systems with a hydraulic mechanism do so this well. Of course the electronic control of the pump plays a part in the feel, but I would think it's effect is primarily felt in the steering assistance. Thanks for the great video! Cheers!
Short answer is that it is designed by people from Lotus, and designed to have this feel. Things like stiff rack bushes, no rubber dampener in the steering column, quick ratio, low assistance. Electrohydraulic steering is not new, Mazda used that system in their everyday cars before they switched to fully electric power steering. Also electric power steering systems with the assist motor on the column (and a manual steering rack itself), like the Toyota 86 or Renault Megane RS, tend to have better feel than systems with the electric motor on the rack (like a BMW).
With regards to electric power steering "numbness", as a signal processing engineer it has always struck me as an easy problem to solve. at least easy in my mind, maybe I am wrong, but "road feel" is contained in a certain segment of the control bandwidth (above 4-10hz) so by tuning the control system loop (or by equalizing the signal at the torque sensor) the power steering system could be tuned to respond slower (not provide corrective force unless a demand lasting more than 150ms or so is present). As a result, the "edge" of all force felt at the contact patch can get past the system into the driver's hands, but any sustained forces will be met with robust counter force by the motor. I presume that the reason why mechanical systems have more feel is simple: There is inertia, hoses flex and therefore the mechanical power steering system can't respond at very high bandwidths. So one can simulate that electronically. There is literally no limit to what the system response can be tuned to do with an electric system, so I can't understand why haven't car manufacturers considered this... Maybe my understanding of the problem is naïve and I am missing something?
The props have advanced over the years, whiteboard to a McLaren race car. I think the next progression would be an F1 car. I can see him explaining some sort of F1 technology in an F1 car during Monaco Grand Prix 2021 while passing Lewis Hamilton.
I'm not sure if it is the "mass damper" effect of the motor rotor or the one-way mechanical transmission characteristic of the worm gear of the E-PAS systems.
Have you ever driven one of those early hydraulic systems that were overboosted on the highway? I'm not sure that I have, but ~20 years ago I had an older car (Oldsmobile FWIW, don't shame me) that behaved somewhat like that. The power steering was WAY overboosted. It was shockingly effortless at low speeds. You could imagine a salesman showing an old lady that the wheel turns when you pushed on it with a pinky finger. On the highway... well, let's just say, driving on the highway was a nerve-wracking white-knuckle experience. There was a huge dead zone on-center, where steering inputs seemed not to do anything, and then you hit a magic point where the car started maneuvering sharply. So, due to the numb isolation from road vibration, and that dead zone, you'd be making adjustments to stay in your lane and see little correlation between your adjustment and the behavior of the car. Then you'd hit that magic point and the car would often over-adjust, and you had to be equally careful to pong back from the ping. But you couldn't do this all too gingerly, because then you wouldn't adjust in time. I only kept that car for a year and was glad to be rid of it. The brakes were also the worst I've ever experienced in a car, but that's another story.
That was ball screw rack with power. Ball screw was developed for manual steering. It changed ratio as you turned. Small turns were 10:1 large 2:1. Had zero road feedback. Then they added power! My 66 Fury was crazy, never turned it over a quarter turn above 2mph.
If you ever get to drive a old Army duce on pavement you understand why the steering wheel is so large. That is often called armstrong steering. The '59 Plymouth and the '61 Ford has armstrong steering. I guess if you really want build muscle get one of those and put a Trax steering on one of them. The 1st car I had was a Pontiac Star Chief the thing I missed the most was the feedback. Of course if you drive on snow you don't need power assist.
Very interesting. Talking about feel, I once drove a very early Honda that had so much assistance that it felt like the steering wheel wasn't connected to anything at all. It honestly felt like you could give it a good spin, and it would go from lock to lock. Absolutely appalling!
In a base model Civic or Jazz (Fit), that is what buyer's (who are often seniors) want. You should find that the S2000 or Type R models have reasonably heavy steering, as conversely that is what buyers of those want. :)
That's an awesome car I'm sure when it comes to lap times, but I'm old school, and steering feel, a cable throttle, a manual transmission is all critical to me in a good sports car or driver's car. This video, while very informative, is a stark reminder of that, listening to that engine constantly hunt for gears.
Why? You can feel the road with electric as well, just not those micro twitches since they are usually filtered. Force feedback would just throw you off and make driving unpleasant.
Not if its properly done, Logitech can help them out since they have prior experience with force feedback systems. I've driven a new F150 with electric steering and the experience was abismal , no feedback what so ever
The one you didn`t mention is the progressive hydraulic PAS, light when parking and getting heavier the faster you go, this gives the most "feel" when driving, my Subaru Impreza has this, unlike the electric steering which always feels too light and on some makes of car tends to snap back to the straight ahead position too agressively .
Quite a few people on the 86 forums saying that it's too disconnected/video game-y, which is one of the reasons I don't like newer cars, it destroys the driving experience for me. I haven't driven the 86 myself yet, but now that I know it's got electric steering, I'm much less enthusiastic. I'm sure there's a hydraulic mod for it, but it's a real bummer for me. The feeling of connectedness to the road is one of the joys of driving. If they want to remove that for regular commuter cars, fine, but doing this with sports cars is a sin.
I like the road noise it helps me realize how track focused that cars is and how little sound deadening is in it compared to other cars if he were to adjust it I wouldn’t get the same level of immersion.
The steering rack is connected to the hub/knuckles using inner and outer ball joints, in that case how does the torsional vibration get transferred to the steering rack??
It's the lateral forces on the contact patches (from ruts in the road, or the tyres loading up) that are transferred back to the steering wheel, just as when you turn the steering wheel you are creating a lateral force on the tyre.
Hey Jason, the electric engine has more inertia than a moving fluid so the benefits of it is to absorb the vibrations due to its mass, but you mentioned that we need those vibrations as an immediate feedback to the driver, my question is that in hydraulic steering system the vibration is too much so it can affect steering performance or it might be good?
I think the main issue with hydraulic systems is steering fluid leaks and the fact that it performance varied depending on the outside temperature. When it's warm, the fluid flows much better and the steering responds better. It does not like cold weather at all.
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Just hit 3,000,000 subscribers!! Big thank you to everyone who has subscribed, watched, and supported this channel over the years! You sure do know how to make a nerdy kid with a whiteboard feel special. Thanks for being curious, for learning about cars with me, and for joining in on the discussion in the comments in an overwhelmingly positive manner. I can't thank you all enough!! 🙏
Congratulations 👏👏👏🎆🎆🎆🎆
Thank you for your knowledge sharing
I don't know why i like you soo much you are truly a gem of car RUclipsrs
congrats dude I've learned so much from you and its made me interested in engineering as a possible career option.
Been following you since the webcam days! Keep up the good work Jason!
Hey Jason, to reduce some background noise in scenarios when cars don’t have dampening, be quiet for at least 15 seconds while driving. Open your audio track in Audition. Select at minimum 10 seconds of that no taking segment. Capture the noise print from the effects > noise reduction menu. Select your entire track and apply an effect called noise reduction process. Adjust to your liking.
Wow, neat!! You're saying you don't enjoy an abundance of road noise?! Haha, thank you for sharing!
@@EngineeringExplained I think he's saying that if you want to decrease that, then here's a way to do it. Some youtubers don't remove road noise because they don't know how, and some don't remove road noise because they don't want to. This will give you a choice that you didn't have before. I love road noise, but would be happy if it were decreased ever so slightly, because it will accentuate the road noise between the talking and help break up the video a bit.
@@samfedorka5629 lol, I think he was joking in that response
@@EngineeringExplained Please don't use noise cancelling. It always sounds far worse than the noisy version of the audio - I can't stand it.
@@C.I... Agreed. Since the sample used for noise canceling will be at a specific speed, it will sound off as the vehicle changes speed and road texture changes.
From whiteboard explaining to roaming with clutch plates in Honda S2000 to McLaren 620R, this kids come a long way.
This "kid' is almost 50 years old.
What kid?
He was 23 when he started😂
Now he must be 31 or so.
So he was a kid 😂😂😂
I thought he said he was born in 1970 or something like that
@@sprinkles2765 That was a joke, he's like 32-33
I love that Jason gets to review and spend the day with cars like this then talks about steering racks. Ultimately I’m watching no matter what but it’s just hilarious.
It's great how you explained steering from a driver's perspective to those of us who don't get the opportunity to drive cars like these. I really enjoy your videos, and congrats on 3 million subscribers!
Thank you Sujay!!
@@EngineeringExplained Has anybody tried to put (simple, piezo?) microphones in the suspension and acustic (vibration) transducers in the steering wheel, so you can have all the assistance and still the "feel"?
I enjoyed this video as well even though this car is my daily driver.
@@TheChzoronzon That won't give the steering feedback. When we say feedback, it is referred to feeling the bumps and undulations in the road that the tyres come in contact with. It's like, when you hit a pothole, the steering wheel twitches slightly, except it's for much much smaller imperfections. I think I probably didn't explain it well enough, sorry. But, that's the basic idea.
And even better than what mclarens doing, is the one by GMA on their T.50. It is basically an electric rack, but it only assist when at small speeds, like parking or crawling.
@@naseeb46 I don't have the subject so clear... a microphone captures vibrations... an electro-acoustic exciter, similar to those used in DMLs, reproduces vibrations. The feeling you get in any steering feedback is just that, vibrations. There's nothing magical or special about it.
They can travel through a solid metalic medium (the steering axle), or if well done, through wire... it's a tech we have pretty nailed, you surely have heard about microphone & loudspeakers...which are exactly that, vibrations captured, sent through wire and then reconstituted... to a much more precise degree than what I'm talking about, I'm pretty sure that accurately getting the timbre of a violin is more difficult than bumps in a road...
I literally just looked up how power steering works yesterday and didn't find anything good. Your timing is perfect!
"Warm and sunny day to talk about these systems" -Jason 2021
I don't get it
@@johnreese7352 the weather looked cold and cloudy. He was joking.
This is why this channel is the bomb. He'll tell you how something works, but then in a separate video like this, he'll tell you WHY IT MATTERS and how different driving systems affect the experience for the layman. Thanks for the context Jason!
Always learning something new. This car is wild, cheers on 3M!!!
It was also ppppppgp
i would be so nervous driving something so expensive in that fog. good video!
That too while recording.
With those tires
And with explaining different types of steering
Why? It's insured.
@@davidjereb you still don't want to be the guy that wrecked a 6 figure car. RUclips won't let you live that one down anytime soon.
He explains all of these details while driving at the same time.
My Wife: Where do you want to eat?
Me While Driving: I can't think right now. I have to maneuver around this other driver.
A huge advantage of direct electric steering is new features like self driving or auto parking. But I guess if you are buying a McLaren, you probably want to do the driving yourself.
I want to do the driving, not the parking
@@22Platypus Indeed Richard
I just don't see why you couldn't do that with electro-hydraulic power steering. Sure, it's difficult to do with pure hydraulic steering (ie., pump driven off the engine), but when it's a completely detached system (ie., the pump is driven by an independently controlled electric motor), you can adjust pump-provided flow/pressure in an infinitely variable way and thus, as I (intuitively) understand it, achieve the same effect. Or am I missing something about how the hydraulics fundamentally work?
@@mnxs electric hydraulic steering is no different/smarter than any hydraulic steering. The electric hydraulic pump just makes high pressure oil. You can remove an engine driven pump and replace it with an electric pump without any other modifications.
Any hydraulic system, would still require an extra electric motor to drive the steering wheel for any self steering, don’t mater if it’s electric pump or engine driven.
You're absolutely correct about the additional inertia the motor adds to the system which filters out the higher frequencies. I would be interested to see how Porsche and Ferrari solves this problem with their electric systems. Porsche especially has pioneered EPS and I've heard the their cars still have wonderful feedback. GT3 being a case in point.
Did anyone else get a little nervous seeing him jerk the wheel while next to a guardrail and certain doom?!
I'm impressed that he has taken the time to record at least two separate video segments during what I'm sure was a very limited time in the car. Hopefully there's more of this great car coming.
Btw... congratulations on 3m! I've only been here for a year and am looking forward to many more. Keep up the great work!
I like how we a speed limit sign come up and suddenly the camera is off the speedometer. Haha. Congrats on the subs man!
Gotta appreciate the whiteboard when it makes into this kind of video👌
The car got dirty so quickly because you are in LA, I got my car washed, drove it 0.2 miles home to park it in a covered spot, came out 2 hours later and it was covered in dust.
Literally.
My dad grew up in Pittsburgh in the 1950s. He said that, on bad days, motorists would have to sweep the mill dust off the car, like a dusting of snow, before going for a drive.
"Dirty air," today, simply doesn't hold a candle to how it used to be.
@@bcubed72I mean, *any* dirty air is bad air, so just because it was even worse 70 years ago doesn't mean it's not worth improving, or indeed complain about. But perspective is nice, sure.
I have manual steering in my 91 MR2 turbo. I don't mind the difficulty parking because it feels WAY better than any powder steering I've tried.
Jason, speaking of torsional forces on the steering column, have you ever noticed the rubber isolator system on the Crosstrek? Instead of a solid column, the damper is put there on purpose to reduce the feedback from the steering, which is also electric assisted. The STI's came with a solid column for the improved feedback. I've put a Perrin damper lock kit on mine, and it made a huge improvement in the road feel for little money and effort. Congrats on 3M! Awesome work!
Great point!
There are plenty of youtubers out there with way more subs and can't even touch this much content. But lets not compare and just be thankful for these types of channels giving us supreme content. CHEERS E.E
The best solution for a sporty car? GMA has electric power steering mounted on the column, not the rack. The power steering works only at very low speed, then it completely disengages, so you have no assistance.
Wow, if only McLaren had thought of a way to turn off an electric motor they could have saved so much money!
Sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious.
I'd love a video explaining the tech behind Cadillacs Magnasteer in the late 90s early 00s cars... I had a 99 Deville and it didn't have a head gasket but boy did that Magnasteer make driving so leisurely
My Grand Prix had the Magnasteer system on it too, I thought it was great. It was variable so it was super light at parking lot speeds and comfortably heavy on the highway
This was an amazingly detailed talk about a very important yet seldom discussed topic - power-assisted steering. Wow. You woke my interest.
Steering feel is most useful at the limits of tire adhesion - the more feel the faster one can react to a loss of traction and know how much counter-steering to put in. Prob don't need this kind of feel unless on the track; though it can be helpful in emergency conditions if you've practiced counter-steering. Awesome video - cool to learn how the high-end manufacturers do steering.
It's nice to feel the road texture at all times IMO!
you know the video is good when there's car reviews AND the whiteboard is there. Also congrats on 3 mil subs
Like the hydraulic steering on my e92. Driving something with electric power steering feel like a video game, feels good to go back to hydraulic afterwards..nice and heavy with wider tires
I miss that about my e92 m3. Best steering I’ve ever felt
E90 335 feels great too.
It’s not the heaviness of the steering necessarily that’s desirable but the way it gives road feedback & feeling. You can have electric steering wheels with heavy feel. My Tesla has a heavy steering feel. And it is very accurate & immediate. And quite decent for electric steering. But it is muted in the feel & feedback that you get from the tires back to the steering.
Basically, I just heard an excuse from a McClaren engineer that they don't know how to tune a servo system to achieve their desired response. I understand that there's a specific response and behavior desired in a car like this, and perhaps just like an audiophile there are good reasons to incorporate older tech as a simpler way to get those desired results. Yes, electric motor rotors have mass, but AC servo tech is such these days that you have control loops in the microseconds and motors that can accelerate at mind-blowing speeds. In some respect, it sounds like they need to use an additional encoder on the opposite side of the steering system to maintain responsiveness while permitting more of the road feedback through the starting column. No doubt, there's a lot of development to make it all behave as desired. Taking it to extremes, you could even incorporate a temperature model into the control loop to change the feel to mimick fluid temperature change through the driving cycle.
As for most daily drivers, electric power steering is now the preferred system due to a variety of advantages it offers, as well as tech that it enables, such as lane keep assist, auto parallel parking, trailer backing, all the way to various levels of automated steering. Hydraulic assist just isn't innately capable of doing these things.
I bet McLaren loved watching this back and seeing him with both hands on the wheels for like 10% of the entire time 😂😂
LoL. I bet its not one-of.
Haha, they got their car back unscathed, they're happy. :)
@@EngineeringExplained Except for those floor mats. lol
@@calholli And the scuff marks on the plastic panel in the footwell.
Press cars, if they get most of the parts back at the end it's a win.
This is a warm and sunny day, You ever been to england?
The sun does not shine on the British empire
@@kevinnorris6558 I wonder why
Ireland says to England: "Hold my beer" 😁
Sunshine State: More Lotion and Sun cream and lip blam
@@markoz673bajen8 Rub it in why don't ya. 😁 Sun cream is not a thing in my environs.
What an awesome video. This video should be used as a reference for engineers that work on steering. I've always been fascinated by tuning steering feel/feedback. One of my favorite videos you've done so far!!
Unfortunately most customers don't want any steering feedback. :(
Honestly, I love that my old MR2 has no power steering. I really wouldn't have it any other way.
Serious question though: is power steering really all that important for MR or RR layout cars? None (relatively speaking) of the weight is over the front axle, and so the steering is inherently lighter than in a front engined car, right?
As an owner of a car with electric steering (2017 Mustang Ecoboost)
It is my LEAST favorite thing about my car (Including the terrible remote mount shifter), so floaty and disconnected.
I HATE IT.
I can't stand driving newer cars because of this.
This channel has come so far......this is just incredible.
my 15 ZL1 has electronic power steering and I love it, no issues so far. Some of the best steering i've ever felt in a car, period. Is this system similar?
If I were sitting where you are driving that car, I would be smiling, not making a video. Congratulations on hitting 3 Million subscribers; you earned it.
One thing I find funny is my little old 98 Saturn SL2 has a variable effort hydraulic steering system when alot of cars even later on never did (until electric steering obviously). It simply has a little electronic valve in the power steering pump that lowers the hydraulic pressure the faster you go and at highway speeds it's bypassed almost entirely giving you a manual rack feel.
Lots of cars have that.
@@DonziGT230 Not really in the american domestic market at least. I can see it being common on european and maybe japanese vehicles. Only american vehicles I can really think of that had it were some 90s-2000s Cadillacs, 1st gen Chevy Traverse (and its relatives) and I think the Corvette. I'm sure there were others but not many.
The best car RUclipsr by far... You actually know what's happening mechanically throughout the whole car...
Thanks!
After driving an old Miata, yes, I can say full hydraulic feels AMAZING. However why do they feel different? This video explains why McLaren uses this electro-hydrolic, but NOT why hydraulic feels so different to electric. I mean yeah, "micro vibrations" and motor inertia that Jason mentioned, but there's so much more. In my old Miata, I could feel exactly how much weight was on the front axle, plus it would tighten up as you start to load up the steering rack in a corner. I've never felt that in any electric rack load up in a corner as much as that Miata (or my old Accord for that matter too)
I had mazda mx-5 1999 and the belt that drove the hydraulic power steering pump failed. I immediately experienced the extra force required especially at parking but I started to get used of it and kept it for years that way. It was definitely getting great feedback on the steering wheel and you easily can notice when you lose traction. I've owned many cars since that first mx-5 and and tried most brands and their normal everyday cars but I can't like any other brand than Mazda because of the steering and handling that they provide. My Mazda 3 today also has electro-hydraulic power steering and I like that Mazda gives attention to these details on everyday cars for all of us that can't afford much more expensive sport cars.
Congratulation for 3M. Been here since a long time ago, never missed a video. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much!!
The first gen Mazda 3 actually has hydroelectric steering as well, and of the Mazda's I've driven it's my favorite steering feel, so maybe McLaren has a point?
Thank you so much for adding real engineering, and not being an apologist to whatever the manufacturers in general are selling :)
Hi, Jason it's cool to know your YT channel has get 3M subscribers. You deserve 'cause you really do a great job here... congrats
Congratulation on hitting 3M subscribers!!
I used to drive a 2005 Saturn VUE with electric power steering, and it was fantastic! It's not a car where you need much feedback through the steering wheel, but it was still fun to drive. As a bonus, the electronic power steering never needed any maintenance. Between that and the manual transaxle, about the only regular maintenance it needed was oil changes.
My BRZ steering feels really nice although i think its electric only. This would make sense because a lot of the vibration and things do not come through to the steering wheel, but the feel for turning the car is very nice.
Apparently for the second generation they deleted some features from the eyesight system to prevent it from having a negative impact on steering feel, which is a nice consideration.
The BRZ has a manual steering rack, with the electric assist motor located on the column. This tends to give a better feel, than the rack-mounted motor that brands like BMW use. :)
Congrats on your content creation journey and reaching 3M subscribers!
My friends 2004 Mazda 3 had electric hydraulic and the steering feel was amazing for cheap economy car lol.
Congrats on 3 mill! Took me from high school to my third year in electrical engineering 😁
It is kind of amusing how loud the interior is. Lots interesting noise happening even at low speeds.
It's mostly due to the fact it's mid-engine...the engine being behind you... This is evidwnt in the most sold/successful/cheapest mid-engine sports car in history: Toyota MR2. The ones that have powersteering has electrohydraulic power steering.
I converted both my Miatas to OEM manual racks, and I love them. Not great in parking lots, but even though I'm nearly 62 years old, 5'5" tall, and can barely do 10 push-ups, I'd never go back to hydraulic. I just love the feeling. (I'm pulling into and out of a parking spots maybe 1% of the time I'm in the cars?)
not saying you are wrong or anything towards the end, but i can definitely tell you when i am driving a a electric steered vehicle. my first time driving one of the newer GLEs a few year ago was my first experience with electric steering and i had no idea it was electric, but it felt so different i knew it was something much different than hydraulic.
Fiat Chrysler put electric/hydraulic steering some years ago in Dodge Challengers and Chargers. When I got my 13 Challenger, I looked for the steering reservoir to find out the car has a fully contained electric/hydraulic steering system. The system works very well. The power load on the engine got transferred to the alternator, since the pump is now gone. The electric/hydraulic steering put high cyclical loads on the alternator. The extra load caused some alternators to fail and led to the P60 alternator recall. Mine was replaced without any problems with the original alternator. The systems works very well and I have no complaints. Its interesting to discuss this on a McLaren, though many cars today have electric/hydraulic steering.
This is the first car I've owned with electric steering, this is the first time I've had no issues with leaking hydraulic hoses or replacing steering racks due to rotten hoses. Also the wheel will react to quick inputs a lot faster than hydraulic systems.
yes there is a HUGE cost/maintenance (or lack thereof) benefit to be had for the masses fitting an all electric rack hence another reason OEMS have switched. i've gotta replace a hydraulic rack now for a 2nd time that i recently replaced. 1st time it was leaking like a sieve (super old) but now the replacement (a rebuild) is loose on one side so the steering is wandering.
@@phillyphil1513 Also the hydraulic system is always working, while the electric motor only works when you turn the wheel. And the critics that say that the steering feels numb is BS, I drove a Scion FRS and the steering was super precise and quick to react.
I agree. The leaking lines also had the potential to cause rubber bushings to break down and leave terrible messes. Not to mention the headache of removing them. I had to make my own out of brake line for my old Honda and eventually ripped it all out because I was tired of the leaks!
All I know from personal experience, is that my EPS sometimes is inexplicably heavy or noisy, or both. And I've never had issues with hydraulic PS, even neglected 30 year old systems.
I don’t know! It sounds on the road exactly like my Altima does! Raw experience! Congrats on the 3 mil!
Hey Jason, your channel is awesome. I’m always on the hunt for content where I can learn something whilst being entertained. You never fail to do this, kudos to you!
Just love your honest and clearly explained videos and long may you continue.
Congratulations on 3M subscribers, you rock!!! 💥🎉
The thing about having different level of power assistance depending on speed is not a new thing and has been around at least for fifteen years. My 2005 Range Rover has such an adaptive system. It does not use an electric pump but has a solenoid that adjusts the response of spool valve in the hydraulic ram. It is controlled by an ECU but the rest of the system is entirely mechanical/hydraulic, including the pump which is driven by a belt off the crankshaft. It works great, giving a very light steering when parking, reversing etc but then tightening up above I think some 15MPH or so.
I like your use of the turnout lane. It's a gentle demonstration. "This is how these work."
2:24 nice NC with the retractable hard top! :D
i own both hydraulic (constant flow) and an electronic assisted cars. i can assure you i can feel the differece even during normal driving, the electronic assisted car has a sportier set ( the wheel is harder to turn) but at the same time it isolates you a lot more from the road. in the hydraulic assisted car i can feel exactly when the tires are at their limit and the car begins to understeer and correcting before actually understeering, with the electronic assisted car is more challenging.
I remember reading an article online where some car reviewers were discussing their driving impressions of a certain car (I think it was a BMW). The reviewers in that article went on to say that the current car with the electric steering actually felt more engaging to drive than the previous gen with the hydraulic steering.
I’ve read it too, guess it was by Car & Driver mag. Apparently Porsche also did something similar and decided to go with EPS.
theres levels to it i guess
It’s all about the system and how it’s set up and tuned. And where the motor is on the system. I find the ones that have the motor just under the steering wheel give the best amount of road feel. It’s basically just a traditional steering rack with some assist put into it
That’s a horrible take coming from someone who’s owned an e90 m3 and driven a new m3. They feel completely numb and i couldn’t tell the difference between that and a the new Honda crv.
A steering column's lack of torsional stiffness also stems from the electronic power steering's inline torque sensor in many configurations. With the car completely off, cars with EPS have some slop both ways before engaging the rack. That slop has some resistance, but would certainly absorb some road feel.
Modern hydraulic systems have the same torsion beam
11:03 Poor fly wanted to share its engineering knowledge on the white surface below, but you disturbed its effort... I expected YOU would understand =D
I LOVE this CHANNEL so much. You are so nice to listen to. I always learn something new.
BUT - 3m subs and still no proper bass/quality focused mic :D The sound needs improvement so much :)
actually looked like a really nice day toward the end. cloudy but not wet. congrats on 3 mil btw!
Could you make a video on how power steering works?...in DETAILS!
Explained here: ruclips.net/video/Z1Y14AejfQU/видео.html
@@EngineeringExplained There would be similar hurdles with an electronic braking system?
I am confused. The 7k Fiat Panda of my mom 15 years ago already had that: It had regular steering assist but also a button called "city mode" - when you pushed that button steering got much, much easier, and you basically could steer with a single finger - was great in parking lots etc. Why is that now considered groundbreaking technology in uberexpensive sports cars 15 years later?
Very neat, I like that steering button! Similar to today's "comfort" vs "sport" modes that are common for steering. Also as mentioned, that they're using hydraulic steering is not groundbreaking, it's been done plenty, but most have moved onto electric power steering, and this video explains why McLaren has not.
The panda had electric steering assist we had one and it was great.
I once had a Fiat Panda as a rental car in Italy and was wondering why the steering was so insanely light as I zoomed (as much as you can zoom in a Panda) down the autostrade. It was only the next day when I was driving in daylight that I saw the City Mode button was on.
My 87 Nissan Sentra, had a light on the dashboard that would light up if you had a tail light out. Don't know why they don't do that today.
I'm always excited when I get notified of a new EE video.
Congrats on 3M subs!!!! Always great content!
I'm sure it's different when you're actually driving with all of the other sensations, but after 5 minutes I found the interior noise was annoying. It's basically a drone, I guess a combination of engine, road and wind noise
Yea, definitely not a cruiser. But when he puts his foot down even a little 🤤
If I’m not mistaken, last time when I looked at an IndyCar, their wheel hubs had small retainer clips that will also retain the single lug nut when it goes on. Some street single hub systems don’t use that, and I don’t know why they wouldn’t because you’d always want that extra level of safety there. Plus you pay an extra $2000 for that single hub system, and if you really want what race cars have, you may as well get the extra retaining clip with it.
They often either torque on so tight it takes special tools to get them on and off, or they sometimes have a lock built into the nut. Mostly because it makes it look smoother and cleaner. With the IndyCar they’re not as worried about looks compared to performance.
I've noticed in *budget* cars (well, by that I mean not-luxury, cars middle-class can easily afford) the difference between electric and hydraulic steering was the dead-zone in assistance. It's like the electronic steering torque meter wasn't as sensitive as the hydraulic version. That or there was a programming difference designed to avoid the overheating of the drive motor (which the hydraulic system isn't concerned about because constant fluid flow).
Question for you Jason: What specifically makes this steering system so good at providing feedback? Surely not all systems with a hydraulic mechanism do so this well. Of course the electronic control of the pump plays a part in the feel, but I would think it's effect is primarily felt in the steering assistance.
Thanks for the great video! Cheers!
Short answer is that it is designed by people from Lotus, and designed to have this feel. Things like stiff rack bushes, no rubber dampener in the steering column, quick ratio, low assistance. Electrohydraulic steering is not new, Mazda used that system in their everyday cars before they switched to fully electric power steering. Also electric power steering systems with the assist motor on the column (and a manual steering rack itself), like the Toyota 86 or Renault Megane RS, tend to have better feel than systems with the electric motor on the rack (like a BMW).
With regards to electric power steering "numbness", as a signal processing engineer it has always struck me as an easy problem to solve. at least easy in my mind, maybe I am wrong, but "road feel" is contained in a certain segment of the control bandwidth (above 4-10hz) so by tuning the control system loop (or by equalizing the signal at the torque sensor) the power steering system could be tuned to respond slower (not provide corrective force unless a demand lasting more than 150ms or so is present). As a result, the "edge" of all force felt at the contact patch can get past the system into the driver's hands, but any sustained forces will be met with robust counter force by the motor. I presume that the reason why mechanical systems have more feel is simple: There is inertia, hoses flex and therefore the mechanical power steering system can't respond at very high bandwidths. So one can simulate that electronically. There is literally no limit to what the system response can be tuned to do with an electric system, so I can't understand why haven't car manufacturers considered this... Maybe my understanding of the problem is naïve and I am missing something?
You literally just answer in the video: motor as a mass damper. Wondering about the use of a non-rigid coupling for the motor output shaft.
Amazing video, so well explain! Could you make a video about dry steering (turning the tyres while static)
The props have advanced over the years, whiteboard to a McLaren race car. I think the next progression would be an F1 car. I can see him explaining some sort of F1 technology in an F1 car during Monaco Grand Prix 2021 while passing Lewis Hamilton.
I'm not sure if it is the "mass damper" effect of the motor rotor or the one-way mechanical transmission characteristic of the worm gear of the E-PAS systems.
Bruh that soupy thick fog tho “warm and sunny California.” On a mountain with a low visibility car is pretty scary ngl.
I remember "variable power assist" being advertised in the 1980's.
Have you ever driven one of those early hydraulic systems that were overboosted on the highway? I'm not sure that I have, but ~20 years ago I had an older car (Oldsmobile FWIW, don't shame me) that behaved somewhat like that. The power steering was WAY overboosted. It was shockingly effortless at low speeds. You could imagine a salesman showing an old lady that the wheel turns when you pushed on it with a pinky finger. On the highway... well, let's just say, driving on the highway was a nerve-wracking white-knuckle experience. There was a huge dead zone on-center, where steering inputs seemed not to do anything, and then you hit a magic point where the car started maneuvering sharply. So, due to the numb isolation from road vibration, and that dead zone, you'd be making adjustments to stay in your lane and see little correlation between your adjustment and the behavior of the car. Then you'd hit that magic point and the car would often over-adjust, and you had to be equally careful to pong back from the ping. But you couldn't do this all too gingerly, because then you wouldn't adjust in time. I only kept that car for a year and was glad to be rid of it. The brakes were also the worst I've ever experienced in a car, but that's another story.
That was ball screw rack with power. Ball screw was developed for manual steering. It changed ratio as you turned. Small turns were 10:1 large 2:1. Had zero road feedback. Then they added power! My 66 Fury was crazy, never turned it over a quarter turn above 2mph.
If you ever get to drive a old Army duce on pavement you understand why the steering wheel is so large. That is often called armstrong steering. The '59 Plymouth and the '61 Ford has armstrong steering. I guess if you really want build muscle get one of those and put a Trax steering on one of them. The 1st car I had was a Pontiac Star Chief the thing I missed the most was the feedback. Of course if you drive on snow you don't need power assist.
Very interesting. Talking about feel, I once drove a very early Honda that had so much assistance that it felt like the steering wheel wasn't connected to anything at all. It honestly felt like you could give it a good spin, and it would go from lock to lock. Absolutely appalling!
In a base model Civic or Jazz (Fit), that is what buyer's (who are often seniors) want. You should find that the S2000 or Type R models have reasonably heavy steering, as conversely that is what buyers of those want. :)
What up guy’s! Hope you all have a great day! 😊
Likewise! 👊
guys*
That's an awesome car I'm sure when it comes to lap times, but I'm old school, and steering feel, a cable throttle, a manual transmission is all critical to me in a good sports car or driver's car. This video, while very informative, is a stark reminder of that, listening to that engine constantly hunt for gears.
Awesome job teaming up with NHTSA!
Congratulations for the 3mil subs...
I know you can do it since you were at 500k but dude.... It took a long time
Car manufacturers should implement the force feedback system that is used for computer steering wheels in electric steering
Why? You can feel the road with electric as well, just not those micro twitches since they are usually filtered. Force feedback would just throw you off and make driving unpleasant.
Not if its properly done, Logitech can help them out since they have prior experience with force feedback systems. I've driven a new F150 with electric steering and the experience was abismal , no feedback what so ever
The one you didn`t mention is the progressive hydraulic PAS, light when parking and getting heavier the faster you go, this gives the most "feel" when driving, my Subaru Impreza has this, unlike the electric steering which always feels too light and on some makes of car tends to snap back to the straight ahead position too agressively .
I think the steering rack in the Toyota 86 is electric. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with how decent it feels. It’s a good example.
Quite a few people on the 86 forums saying that it's too disconnected/video game-y, which is one of the reasons I don't like newer cars, it destroys the driving experience for me.
I haven't driven the 86 myself yet, but now that I know it's got electric steering, I'm much less enthusiastic. I'm sure there's a hydraulic mod for it, but it's a real bummer for me. The feeling of connectedness to the road is one of the joys of driving. If they want to remove that for regular commuter cars, fine, but doing this with sports cars is a sin.
On another note, anyone know if the incoming GR86 will have electro-hydraulic steering? That could be a huge step up.
I like the road noise it helps me realize how track focused that cars is and how little sound deadening is in it compared to other cars if he were to adjust it I wouldn’t get the same level of immersion.
How did the old Citroen system reduce assistance as speed increased?
Please explain about the lotus Evija.
The steering rack is connected to the hub/knuckles using inner and outer ball joints, in that case how does the torsional vibration get transferred to the steering rack??
It's the lateral forces on the contact patches (from ruts in the road, or the tyres loading up) that are transferred back to the steering wheel, just as when you turn the steering wheel you are creating a lateral force on the tyre.
You pointing to that fly is the key to your success!
Hey Jason, the electric engine has more inertia than a moving fluid so the benefits of it is to absorb the vibrations due to its mass, but you mentioned that we need those vibrations as an immediate feedback to the driver, my question is that in hydraulic steering system the vibration is too much so it can affect steering performance or it might be good?
I think the main issue with hydraulic systems is steering fluid leaks and the fact that it performance varied depending on the outside temperature. When it's warm, the fluid flows much better and the steering responds better. It does not like cold weather at all.