Kveik vs. British Ale Yeast - Hot Fermented Stout Tasting
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2020
- We put the hot ferment to the test this week comparing a Stout brewed with Kveik Voss next to a traditional British Ale Yeast.
Everyone knows that when you ferment warm/hot, often bad things can happen with the yeast profile. This should be especially true for A British Ale Yeast like WY1098. Mike fermented a stout for recipe development but forgot to set up for a cooler ferment at the time and the British Ale yeast crept up to 85F in his hot basement.
What to do??? Enter Kveik Voss. Mike decided to brew the exact same beer and emulate the same hot ferment at 85F and see how the two beers compare. Current wisdom out there is that Kveik loves the high temperatures and it ferments fairly clean at those temps.
This week, we put that to the test.
Let us know about your temp control issues, Kveik fermentation trials as well as any other random brewing thing you have on your mind!
Cheers!
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#Kveik #Stout #YeastComparison
![3 MORE English Ale Yeasts Part 2 [Side By Side Comparison] - Brew Dudes](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uaK7aycX-Ug/mqdefault.jpg)
This was a great experiment! Triangle tests are always fun to test the variable!
Agreed. I was happy I was able to pick it out too. - John
Mike! I really appreciate your well-put synopsis on the effects of single variables in brewing. Many/most variables we tinker with seem to produce contextualized effects which seems to produce so much confusion. Thanks!
Thanks Blake - he's the scientist. - John
Aussie summer is coming up and I love my stouts so Kviek sounds like the way to go. Great video, exactly the info i needed.
Give it a go and tell us about it. Cheers! - Mike
Great experiment. Learned a lot about the different mouth feel from the Kveik and the ability to ferment higher with the US-05. Thanks for sharing.
Awesome! Cheers! -Mike
Nice experiment! Im just planning on my first kveik brew (voss) and this gives me some inspiration. Now im considering some dark malts. Cheers!
Its my opinion we need to be brewing lots more variety to better understand the 'space' that these variables really make an impact in. Cheers! -Mike
Great stuff, and interesting experiment 😊👍🏻
Thank you! Cheers!
I was very skeptical to try Voss Kveik in a stout, this is what I needed to see! 🍻
There you go! - John
Great expirement and video.
I've split into 6 demijohns, each yeasted differently. Very noticeable results. This was a pale ale.
I've drunk a British brewer that uses Kveik in all beers, they all had a trademark smoothness/roundness common in all.
Thanks for the comments! Cheers! -Mike
Wort wants to be beer so badly. As long as your yeast is happy then your wort will be happy and they will get married and become beer. I brewed a stout with kveik and i was afraid my basement would be to cool for it.....well i was wrong kveik just slapped my wort in the face and decided to turn my fermentors into volcanos.
Cant wait to try it out. It was a happy wedding for the wort and yeast!
Great stuff BD. Just done a split batch stout ferment with Irish Ale and Nottingham yeasts. #triangle way to go!
I need to explore Irish Ale yeast a little more. Normally I don't care for it in anything other than stout. It almost seems destined to just make great stout. Cheers! -Mike
Really interesting, great video! I'll be doing something like this with a light bitter some day soon.
Nice! Thanks for chiming in! Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes Anytime, dear dudes, specially whenever you're discussing yeasts!
I have come back to this video a few times. I am always amazed that an English Ale at 85F made a decent beer. I *think* I make much better beer controlling temps at 64F to 66F, but I need to do some temperature trials. Also, there was no mention of orange notes in the Voss beer. A friend of mine brewed several batches of Irish Stout with Voss, and I could never detect the orange character that I get when using Voss in a Pale Ale style beer.
Thanks for the video! Generally speaking it seems like I get off flavors/esters if the temp gets above yeast temperature range in the beginning of fermentation and I adjust to bring it down. If the temp gets high at the beginning and I leave it high through out the entire fermentation (maybe even bump it up toward the end) its fine or not as noticeable. Im a huge proponent of never lowering temps till finished fermenting.
Agreed - thank you for watching and for leaving a comment. - John
Hay Guys another great video love it will have ago at a stout thanks
I encourage anyone to try the midnight wheat as a heavy part of the roast bill. I am going to rework a couple other recipes and see what happens with it. Its not a new ingredient but its new to me! Cheers! -Mike
REALLY wanna know your taste and aroma thoughts on that Archer hop. I’ve seen it, but haven’t pulled the trigger.
Its pretty good. I'll be pulling it into something a little lighter soon. Should give me a better evaluation of the aroma. Stay tuned! Cheers! -Mike
Interesting experiment. This just goes to show you, that you can deviate a bit from the letter of the law in brewing and still come out with a good drinkable beer. Well done.👍🍺
Agreed. Thanks! - John
I typically pitch yeast (mostly US-05) at 84-86 degrees in the summer. I drag it into the basement, it hits 74ish within 12 hours, and it is between 70-72 by 24 hours. I've had no issues yet, and I brew all sorts of styles. With that warm pitch temperature, I've seen it at a steady fermentation by 3 hours in.
Thanks for the comment! Cheers! -Mike
Well a stout will cover over a lot more differences than a pale ale would. Love this content because in summer here in Australia it gets quite hot without an air conditioner. Great comparison though, but redo it with a pale ale. I suspect there will be a lot more of a difference.
Agreed. Maybe we'll get to that one. Cheers! -Mike
I've brewed a couple of IPAs with Kveik Voss, first one at 104, second at 100. No problems whatsoever. Ferments out clean in about 40 hours.
That's great info - thanks for the comment. - John
That's so warm!
Almost hot! Cheers! -Mike
Have there been any updates here or further experiments? Thank you for the videos as I am a new subscriber as of this week. Keep it up!
Need to get on the Kveik horse again. Targeting late August/September.
@@BrewDudes Although Kveik Yeast is interesting, I guess I am personally more interested in seeing how other typical Ale Yeast strains react at elevated temperatures (e.g., at 85-90 F are there noticeable off-flavors produced). It is quite intriguing that you did not perceive any off-flavors in the beer with the British Ale Yeast in this video. I guess it just goes to show that you cannot believe everything you hear or read (regardless of the source). I wonder how many of these "old" brewing recommendations/ranges are truly important/factual. You guys are great and I love the way you bring a systematic/scientific approach to understanding all aspects of brewing. Keep it up!
Those Norwegian yeasts really seem to do some interesting things. I’ve heard that the beers really change as it ages. Would love to see your impression after a month in the keg. If it lasts that long if course. Lol. Cheers. Thanks for sharing.
We will see how they do. I might have to bottle some up to free up fridge space in the coming month. If anything interesting happens, we will do an update. Cheers! -Mike
What do you think of admiral hops? Got them instead of challenger a while back without realizing their high alpha acid content. It was too much for the light abv beer I attempted. It seems like it would be a good base bittering hop for many styles.
I have been enjoying them. Just used the last of them in my latest Best Bitter. I am going to get more and try some EKG side by sides. Cheers! -Mike
Hello did you catch any smoke aroma..... I brewed a batch of IPA with Kviek (this one hornindal variety from WL) ...and it did complete fermentation like in 2-3 days but did not like the smokey aroma..... For any reason I love it in white oak aged red wine ...but it is not a flavor that i appreciate in beers..... But must admit that still have the idea of trying the Voss kind on a small batch.
I don't remember catching any smoke character. But this spring/summer we want to play with Kveik some more and I'll try and keep that in mind. Cheers! -Mike
I've been brewing with WY1098 at room temperature for years with overall great results for various styles of beers. Would the beers be better if fermented at lower set temperatures, maybe. But living in an apartment would make this quite impractical.I still will give kveik a try
My opinion in this is that despite what retailers or home-brew forums may say about temperature ranges for a given yeast profile; the only thing that matters is: "Do you like the beer!?!?" After that understanding the role temperature might play in any given yeasts fermentation profile is important when you want to tweak things. I think many of these English Strains do fine at 72F at producing English yeast flavor profiles. So if that's working for you no need to change. Experimentation can be fun and educational, but do what you like. Cheers! -Mike
Do you think we should fermented with its own ideal temperature ? 85 is good for Kveik but the other ones could lead to unwanted flavor ? what do you think ?
That was the point. To compare a the British Ale yeast at 85F to the Kveik and compare how "bad" the British Ale yeast was supposed to be. Cheers! -Mike
You never mentioned what Kveik yeast it was ? I am assuming that it is Voss.
Just suffered my first major yeast fail. WY1028 in a Moose Drool clone. 36hrs after pitching, absolutely zero activity. The Wyeast pack was 3 months old and didn't balloon up after smacking it the night before but was only doing 3 gallons at OG of 1.053, so I ass-umed it was fine. Yes, I should have known better and done a starter to revive. Anyway, this video made me go ahead with plan 'B' and pitch some Imperial Loki (Voss) that I dried and had handy in the freezer. Put the temps up to 68 F from 65 F. Hopefully thats not too cold. Imperial says it goes down to 65 F. Apparently Voss does well with dark beers. Who knew?
Hope it turned out well, T B. - John
@@BrewDudes It did! Ended up a success. The low ferment temps and malt backbone seems to completely remove/cover any hint of Kveik esters, moreover from the Hoppy Kveik beers I've done. Would totally do a malty Brown ale again with Voss. No hesitation.
Kveik is back, cheers
For now! Cheers! -Mike
Good video but would have liked to see both fermented at the optimal temp for each yeast. 85F/30C is way too high for that English ale yeast, right? I know you say it didn't impact flavour too much but I just don't see the point of fermenting at that temp.
Agreed. Maybe someday. But the Kveik thing seems to have "cooled" off so maybe we won't circle back... but there is some Kveik in our near future coming up! Cheers! -Mike
You gotta go for it with the kviek. 85 is nothing. I leave it in my garage in the middle of summer and it makes great beers! That is a little over or under 100 depending on the day.
I guess though my question is why? That's what I am working out. At first the Kveik lore was its so clean even when fermented warm. Then the story changed to its got great esters for IPA. What about fermenting over 100F makes for the great beer? Is there some new flavor profile up that high that I can't get with using London III, Conan, Barbarian or Juice at 72F? This is the basis for my desire to experiment. Not many people can maintain temp control under 70F. I figure most people will also have trouble pushing their fermentation temp up to 100F. Its like we've created the same problem at the other end. I'm not critizing, just putting my thoughts out there. I am curious AF about it. Cheers! -Mike
Brew Dudes :well said. Yin and Yang temp control issues
surprised you didnt get any orange notes in the Voss stout. mine was earthy and orangey, somehow tasted good!
Maybe the stout itself was too strong. What ever happened to all the hype around Kveik being so clean when fermented hot. Now its always look at these interesting flavor notes. Which is it clean or unique flavors? I'm confused. Cheers! -Mike
Maybe the hard ferment at 85F blew off some nice aromatics in the british strain?
Hey, that's an interesting notion. Not sure how to test for that though, I'll have to think on that. Interestingly then is there a trough in the fermentation temperature curve where you retain some unwanted fermentation character, but the temp goes higher and you push them out? Who knows. What we really need is for someone to perform GC analysis on the fermentation from several different yeasts including Kveik and compare whats coming off the ferment. That would be cool. Cheers! -Mike
85F?! Didn't that produced a lot of fusels with the 1098?
Thats exactly what I would have predicted. Yet there was nothing of the sort. I was pretty concerned the beer would be garbage, yet it came out quite well. I might do a third run of that recipe and ferment it at 68F to see. But I certainly don't need 15 gallons of stout aging away in my fridge. Cheers! -Mike
Yeah, that's a little out of the temp range for 1098, not sure why you'd want to do this other than to promote kveik...
No fusel alcohol in the British ale version? That's fascinating.
I can back up Mike's claim - woke up this morning with no ill effects. - John
85 or 30 C for Kveik is pretty low. I fermenter voss at 42 C
It is low for Kveik, but high for most other yeasts. This is a comparison of Kveik at that temp against the British Ale yeast. But that's not to say it doesn't ferment at that temperature. We need to to a series of beers ramped and do some good side by sides. Cheers! -Mike
How long did they ferment for?
Week and a half each. Both were stable at terminal gravity for 3-4 days before I kegged them up. -Mike
@@BrewDudes wow, would have thought the kveik went much quicker
Good video. But I just cant get my head around putting beer out into the sun, doing a taste test and then trying to find a great tasting beer. Go back inside boys.. the light has to effect the flavour.
Trust us, we'd rather be inside but COVID has had us trying to keep content rolling with 6ft of distance and we stay out of each others households. We actually have a video where we discuss light struck beers. In the time frame we shoot the videos the beers have seemed to hold up well. And usually are shooting in the shadow of my garage so despite how bright it might seem some of the time we aren't at least taking the full brunt of the sun in the beer. Cheers! -Mike
i find it funny to call a yeast british ale yeast as there are 40 local yeasts in britain. notts, windsor, scottish, sussex ale, kent ale, london, sheffield, leeds, yorkshire, welsh ale, so which is it. notts ale yeast = Gervin GV12 = Wilko English ale yeast. I wish these companies actually agree a international naming standard, like the latin name in flowers. different names in countries, yet same latin name worldwide.
I hear you - we're using the name provided by the manufacturer. In this case, it's Wyeast 1098 British Ale Yeast. - John
Thanks for sharing. It seems like those Norhoovian yeasts work in any style. FWIW - it's pronounced K-VIKE. Like K-Viking.
Thanks for the info!
If you google it, correct pronunciation is “kvike”
Thanks!
Ka vike not ka vig.
Thanks. I have heard it mostly as Ka Vake though. -Mike
this gay is talking tooooooooooo much
Thanks Rick!