Tried messing around with Dhalsim a while ago. What places him at "hard" instead of "slightly hard" for me is how even his movement is so different from any other character. Couldn't get used to that floating.
Me too, I can’t wrap my mind around the floaty jump, it never clicked in my mind even though I see it being a non issue or even beneficial for people who know what they are doing with him lol.
I main Dhalsim ( Peaked at 1650 MR ) and it feels like comparing apples to Oranges. Not having a traditional jump I think more than anything makes Dhalsim play a game that is completely different. I watch top level play all the time, I see somebody jump out in some tight situation and I go "Oh, that's what I'm supposed to do there!" and then I go "Wait...I don't move like that"
I’m sure there is no way I know better than a 1650 MR Dhalsim, but I thought that in those situations were others would jump Dhalsim just went with instant air teleport Is that not a thing?
Oh yeah its a thing, but there are a couple of key differences. IAT is not as strong against nuetral jumps, it is much less rewarding ( can't get a heavy button, only a light combo ) and you don't get an ambiguous cross up. Plus, if your opponent jab checks you are put into a forced knockdown state which means you can get combo'd out of the air. Also, this one is kind of hard to describe but Dhalsims jump being so floaty makes nuetral jumping in the corner as a defencive option a lot weaker. If the opponent is just patient or has a wide DP you won't get a lot of millage out of changing teleport timing or working in float. They are gonna more or less just wait for you to descend and it doesn't matter on which side. @@vahallen9876
Tierlists like these are why I have started to dislike them in general because for me, the true test of whether or not a char is difficult to play should only be measured when they are FULLY optimized. Sure everyone can pick up a char and do the basic stuff fairly simply, but optimization is a whole other thing.
this can be solved by addressing whether you're talking about a character's skill floor or skill ceiling it seemed like broski was talking about skill floor? but then he started talking about 1700 MR and shit, so idk
He’s not making videos just using his pretty boring stream content and and cropping it for a RUclips video. Not like he’s put thought or effort into this pointless list
Ive always thought sim was a cool character visually and finally decided to take the time to learn him and main him this game and while its rough sometime ive definitely gotten some free wins that i shouldn't have at the lower ranks because so many people have no clue what to do against him since they rarely see him. Also have gotten way more one and doners than with any other character
I think what pushes gief from medium to slightly hard is: 1. Inconsistent anti air means you have to constantly beware if the opponents exact spacing a timing of their jump or else you get stuffed out or crossed up 2. 3mp into SA1/SA2 is a pretty difficult input while also being mandatory to learn for every combo that uses super
@@HellecticMojo Fr, they wont have to buff him too much but maybe less whiff recovery frames, or making Ex lariat a true reversal and hit on both sides
@@cj_ocean It's just making fun of how you'd need to traverse through fireballs and stuff with Manon since she has to get close to be at her preferred distance. So dodging fireballs with her twirl, long range pokes with the OD version of it, and jumping stuff to get in and score either a grab or a hit, would make it seem like a Mario game where you traverse through stuff to get to the end.
Chun-Li's down-down input for her DP seems easy until you consider the fact that she has to be standing still for at least one frame before and after each down input, and it can only be _straight_ down-it can't be 12, it must be 22, and because of all these rigid restrictions, it's more like 52525. I still find it incredibly awkward to do, and I've been playing Chun since launch. I would genuinely rather just have a 623 input for the move. That way, I'm at least able to walk forward while buffering DPs, crosscut with it, and I get access to the 323 shortcut. It also won't look like I'm teabagging you when I'm just getting ready to anti-air your jump-in.
THIS. i am really hoping as well that the dev will change the input to just 623. or maybe add it as an alternative like how they added mash input as alternative for her Hyakuretsukyaku in SF5. i'm fine with 22 input as a gimmick/install specials like on the other casts but as an urgency tool like AA i don't find it comfortable at all x.x
@@dh3014 You're right. Doesn't make it less awkward though. Actually, in the case of 66 inputs, Capcom knew this type of input was causing problems for some people, which is why they introduced the ability to perform Drive Rush cancels by hitting MP+MK instead of a dash.
As someone who has played Cammy for a while now (52769 Kudos), i don't think she's hard AT ALL. She has very good pressure just by pressing a few buttons, her combos (not the flashy ones, just the common) can be easily executed... Idk what people sees hard about Cammy. For me, is one of the easiest character, not as Lily, of course, but putting her above Dee Jay and Chun-Li is wild for me.
Cammy has to do a lot of work to get in and open your opponent up, when she does it’s a matter of mind games. If you screw up its back to trying to get in from full screen. Her mix game is also kind of overrated imo. Chun doesn’t really have these problems. Cammy’s strengths are things imo only slightly advanced to pro level players can take advantage of. The hardest thing about chun imo is her execution, but the game plan is simple and she’s quite adaptable.
Marisa is definitely easy af to play, its like Luke making opponent guess between charge knuckles/gladius except its every better for Marisa since charged Gladius beats DI. Marisa also gets auto spacing trap after every Gladius blocked. Kills opponent in two touches.
She's only easy as long as she's doing damage. If she guesses wrong and opponent gets oki she's not easy at all. Everyone at the top of "easy" (even Lily) has an invincible wakeup DP/FK to interrupt pressure and create space. Marisa has nothing reliable to do on wakeup without a lvl2 super.
@@CrystalMang0 nobody said "every time". But it does happen quite often, you usually have lvl3 in the 2nd or third round. Even if it's not two touches, three is also easy and happens way more than other characters.
Contradictory logic. You started off by saying a character being bad doesn't mean they're hard, but then immediately put DeeJay as easy because he's good.
Wrong. he put deejay in easy for the same reason he put lily. Because their game plans are brain dead.. he literally said “ charge moves add some difficulty to Deejay but aside from that there is too much reward for just pressing buttons”. Essentially meaning very little thought goes into being successful with them similar to juri lol. Broski consistently said if you have a linear game plan you are easy character. Also Essentially that every one who can cancel cr/mk to dr is easy/slightly easy
@@Syrup4prezThen why is Ryu in the same tier as Ken and Luke? He is arguably harder to play with since he has worst tools then both of them. Since Ryu is such a simple character you’ve got to be creative with your game plan.
@@jotaromario2300 I see your point. But historically shotos have been considered easy characters. Luke ,Ken , and ryu are excellent characters for someone beginning to learn fighting games. Simply because their game plans are extremely simple. This idea is present in most games that have shotos. I agree that Ken and Luke are stronger than ryu, but that statement is assessing the strength of character tools rather then the difficulty of executing their vanilla gameplan
@@KejutoJetomoryu and Juri are both easy . Relative to characters that are actually difficult like Jamie. I agree that ryu is harder to play then Ken and luke, but the shoto play style is easy as hell at the end of the day. Having a fireball, Inv dp, and solid corner carry renders ryu capable in every situation. Which is why allot of people consider shotos boring.
I think the drink level level thing is pretty overblown in terms of complexity. You only need to remember level 1 is divekick, level 2 is breakdance and level 3 is command grab. Yeah, ok maybe level 4 is basically a new character, but if you hit level 4 you're probably about to win in the next 10 seconds (or about to lose all your drink levels)
@@angquangnguyenthac2833 no, he's very imbalanced internally. He's overtly dependent on SPD to carry him, his anti airs are all terrible. His run grab is nearly useless. The lariat is a terrible tatsu that goes nowhere for corner carry or pressure while also being a terrible anti air with no invincibility or the vertical reach. Level 1 that once again doesn't work as anti air or even a reversal. Level 2 that's very slow, can't hit air, and requires further meter to do any worthwhile damage.
I think theres two categories here. Easy for new people to play and easy for experienced players to play. An example, DJ, for a new player to fighting games, DJ is very hard due to him being a charge character and needing ro understand charging and buffering.
I've never played Dhalsim in previous installments. Somehow he just clicked for me in SF6. He was daunting to play at first, but once you get the float thing down, it get s easier.
He was traditionally much more a fullscreen zoner, which worked well because it wasn't possible to just DI to punish anything he does. In SF6 he's kinda a rushdown character.
I feel like Chun starts out hard because the stance stuff is weird, if you didn’t play her in SFV learning her SBK confirms off mediums is awkward for a bit, I would even say learning a 22 input DP is also weird after not using them before, but once all of that becomes combo muscle memory you can lean more on her neutral with 6/4MP, 2MK, etc. Medium feels appropriate.
I disagree. People just have her neutral carry her, but I'm TELLING you with the fact that she has a floaty jump, air legs, and a harder to setup safejump makes her harder. Not to mention when the meta improves, she's gonna have to use more stance cancel in neutral for mixup. There's a reason you don't see a lot of them, it's because trying to make use of her tools takes away from the mental stack. It's just odd that he put Cammy below Chun since I play both and Cammy really just has to worry about spacing
Chun should be in slightly hard at least, hard at best. When he put Chun in medium I zoned out from the video. She’s execution heavy and easily goes into burnout. Not to mention her anti-air being more awkward to execute than a DP motion and inconsistent on top of that. He put her in medium because you “don’t have to use stance.” Not using stance on Chun is like not using FSE on Juri. You can still play the character but you will reach a competitive cap without the extra tool.
You can say that about any character after getting used to them. him rating Cammy harder than Chun is just LOL tier and just invalidates the whole list
I was looking forward to seeing where you'd put Honda and I was not disappointed 😂😂. Only critique is that Sim isn't in the 'Not playing Street Fighter' tier lol
Okay i played every single character and tried to get them as high as possible, aki is hard to win with, rashid is a 50/50, but those 2 characters are farely hard to play at first, but then its okay. Dhalsim is absolutely the hardest character in this list but something i don't personnally agree with is dee jay, this character has the same problem as rashid where if you actually want to play him, you need to work for your wins at first and then the gameplan is so varied that its hard to use exactly what you need to when you need, i'd actually put him one tier under aki and rashid
@@AaronW0885brother, i meant evo, and the tournaments before that, try playing dee jay and tell me if its easy, he's at least in the same place as chun, and yes i do play both because i play everyone in the cast
Played deejay for a week. Got to master in about 6 hours of play and my win rate was above 80%. By the end of the week I had 1800+ MR and I didn't even learned how to use lvl 2 lmao
This has some good information but often blurs the ease of use vs viability. Juri for example is easy to play simply/ poorly, but no mention of ca2 which is required at the highest level highlights my point.
@@allero there is a difference between skill floor and skill ceiling. FSE has a low skill floor so it's no difficult, but has a high skill ceiling for creativity. How do you not understand that?
@@Cezkarma we are talking about if characters are hard to be effective with and you literally just said she has a high skill ceiling. Thank you for supporting my original point
@@allero my guy, a character can have a low skill floor and still have a high skill ceiling. But I can tell that you're still a newcomer to fighting games so these concepts may still be difficult to understand. I won't confuse you further.
I got Master rank with Random select and I couldn’t disagree more with a lot of the choices here. Chun Li and Gief are up there with Rashid and Aki for the more difficult characters. Dee Jay is right behind them IMO. Cammy is very straightforward as well so im not sure how she is that difficult. I think broski is coming from a perspective of someone who is very good at playing quirky characters who are difficult to use well.
chunli is med ur bugging ?? chun li is hard if you hope on playing high ranked matches she also does'nt have a throw loop to rely on like cammy and juri
Lol putting Deejay at easy just to put Cammy at hard 10 sec later is some biased shit. Cmon you say that Deejay is easy cuz he can win random scrambles and then say that Cammy is hard to play at a high level... So are we talking low rank random scrambles or high level gameplay here?
All id change with this list is id move Guile into slighty easy(thats generous af too) and Chun into slighty hard because her combo routes seem mad unusual. Aki and Jamie main here
If you think Chun should be slightly hard only because of combos it’s wild that you think Guile should be slightly easy considering Chun doesn’t even have one combo comparable to any sort of perfect boom link Like not even the same galaxy
@@maxwellscott-bz8bf you definitely need to master perfect timing for a lot of his optimal routes. Guile is one of the harder characters to fully optimize. At a high level you definitely need to be able to do his boom loops on command. And both sides have different timing. Boom loops makes Guile's corner game very scary. Because taking the throw, or getting shimmied into a loop is the decision. Remember Guile's throw loops actually require meter. I don't think he's hard, but he's beyond easy. I think medium is right. You'll see high level Guile starting to use his b. HP to perfect sonic boom combo starter. And it's actually pretty strict timing. It's an essential route at high level, because that means he gets really big and meter efficient conversions from hitting a b. HP. So these are important combos to learn at high levels, because top players aren't just going to jump at Guile 50 times in a match
As a former lily player i disagree with your statement. Hibiki the best never resorts to that basic strategy. I do however completely agree with Cammy she isnt as easy as people think
Hibiki is carrying Lily due his defense being ridiculous. She needs her windstocks to continue her momentum too, If she yolo's in and has no stocks to play with she's much weaker.
@@DayFul he is incredibly skilled but if you watch how he plays without wind stock he is still stupid. People need to rush him to prevent him getting a stock and he knows his options the best in that scenario
I think on the surface Dee Jay is somewhat difficult because of having no cancelable pokes and being a charge character, but both of those kinda go out the window when your most rewarding special is a motion special that can be combod into by literally every cancelable normal and every drive rush normal
I like this list. Anything I would change is a nitpick. Switching Ken and Marisa, moving Gief to at least slightly hard. Otherwise I’m mostly in agreement
switch marisa to easy, switch places between chun and cammy and put guile on hard, and this is pretty much my list, chun is more of a personal bias because I just can't play the character I don't know exactly y, and guile has huge difficulty spike when u r actually trying to pull off some insane stuff and combos with him and u aren't just living off of zoning and target combos, at least from my master rank experience
I'm curious how Guile perfect booms make him a medium, but Luke perfect knuckles don't budge him out of easy? Is it because Guile needs his perfects, but Luke doesn't need his to win?
Salt Broski is salty because Luke is too strong, that’s it Which mind you, it’s true, but was not the point of the list but salt got in the way so he put him in easy
Tell me that Chun Li is hard please haha I'm stuck rn in plat 1 trying to main her. I think I'm getting there and then I'll forget how to play defense against JP, Guile, DJ :(
Juri is hard to play in theory, her drive rush pressure is so braindead and easy to execute that is absurd is what everyone play her for, if s2 comes around and you have actually to use your resources properly and use feng shui is a different story
Luke is not that hard, but has a lot of depth/tech. The actual part that makes him somewhat hard: Hardest bread and butter (except for Guile) with his perfect knuckles, as they are three frames. Sometimes you just drop them.
What's funny is they simplified Dhalsim for SF6 by making his teleports much easier to execute and he's still like trying to play chess with a Mozart sonata
Mostly disagree. Deejay just because of his Super 3 and Charge and some inputs agree hard. The easiest are Honda Luke Ken Ryu and so on ,Shotos. JP and Manon feel quite technical.
To add to support that Dee Jay's easy, you don't even need his level two to play, or you could simply use light punch version and mash through the whole thing. I Tried for hours in training mode and was still unable to do the complete lv2, yet it felt so much easier to win with him than even other easy characters like Luke.
I have to disagree with your Chun placement. Her stance cancels are absolutely not just combo filler, but even if they were, they’re pretty difficult to pull off in clutch situations and it can completely change her combo routes.
@@OgichiGame I would like to point out in +R every character had unique 2-3f unique timings for a lot of their kit. It's definitely not that older games are absolutely harder than newer ones, since they are competitive so that's not possible. but in terms of effort you have to put into learning a given character to use most of their tools, older games just had more barriers.
Gief is medium...? I picked Gief as my main because I felt like he was Easy to play. :D The only real ''struggle'' I've had to deal with is learning to handle those who like to Fireball and backdash and nothing else. Or just Fire-Dashing, as I call it.
Hard disagree with a lot of these placements. Feels like a lot of the characters got placed based on his own like/dislike of them. JP is strong as hell, but he's very technical. He shouldn't be that low. Juri is also pretty difficult to play because she has to manage a resource she burns through easily while doing fairly poor damage. And speaking as someone who loves to play Zangief as a secondary, he's really easy. His game-plan is just, get in, grab. Is he good? No. But is he easy? Absolutely. The skill floor and ceiling for Gief are both pretty low.
Feels like some of these choices are due to not playing the characters like juri and Kimberly. All respect, tho. I think with all the mental attack in this game, ease of execution would be more crucial. I think this can easily be conceptualized by how different the character plays in modern. The more the character changed with perfect execution, the more execution heavy the character in classic, the more difficult that character is to play in a high level mental stack. Just my opinion, but characters that take a lot of components to play neutral, and perform punish combos should be lower in the list.
I don't get this list and what is the metric ( hard to learn ? hard to excecute ? hard to win ? From newbie POV ? From pro player POV ? ). Learning all the JP set-up and learning how to zone properly isn't easy at all. Same with DJ, it's hard to use his tool correctly .... just because JP carry us at low level, he is easy ? OK so Cammy is easy too then, since when do we need her dive kick to reach master ? I have harder time wining with Ryu than Cammy cause with ryu you need good fontamental you can't just use bullshit stuff to "outplay" people. This list make no sense because there is no precise metric.
As I main both Jamie and Chun-Li atm, i think Chun-Li should be in the slightly hard category too. Kinda ehhhh to have 22K as an anti-air and trying to mix charge inputs with some combos here and there
I think Luke is among the hardest character in the game He is super fucking strong, arguably the strongest character in the game but he has a thon of tech, a bagillion different tipe of knockdown/ combo enders To truly be a good Luke there is a ton of stuff you can learn, he still performs without all the tech because of how good he is, but Luke is one of the character with the most depth Also, Luke has no real neutral skip outside of raw DR or wack ass special that mixes the opponent by itself Luke is NOT HARD TO WIN WITH, but he is not an easy or shallow character
On the contrary, many people showed that although she has Juri as her waifu they simply didn't play her like Baiken before Guilty Gear Strive because she was difficult, I guess the reverse happened to you.
Learn Feng Shui before dropping her. If you don't have the willpower to learn the hardest lvl 2 in the game don't go complaining to capcom telling them to make her "interesting"
@@matrxzeno4761Feng Shui isn't as hard as your making it out to be. I spent a few weeks doing just that because I thought that was the most interesting part of Juri in this game. But even if it was it doesn't change the fact that Juri is pretty easy and uninteresting outside of that one super.
@@matrxzeno4761 you also don't need to use it. Juri level 2 is techinically really great, but it's also worthless because it's pretty redundant. It doesn't really force the opponent to change their gameplan when you activate it. Compared to a level 2 like Jamie or Guile which provides strong utility, it's just kind of a "win more" button.
Putting chun li as easier than cammy is a crime.
Tried messing around with Dhalsim a while ago. What places him at "hard" instead of "slightly hard" for me is how even his movement is so different from any other character. Couldn't get used to that floating.
Me too, I can’t wrap my mind around the floaty jump, it never clicked in my mind even though I see it being a non issue or even beneficial for people who know what they are doing with him lol.
Same, his movement, buttons and jump makes him so weird to play since his "feel" depart from all the other characters
he deadass feels like playing at half speed
I main Dhalsim ( Peaked at 1650 MR ) and it feels like comparing apples to Oranges. Not having a traditional jump I think more than anything makes Dhalsim play a game that is completely different. I watch top level play all the time, I see somebody jump out in some tight situation and I go "Oh, that's what I'm supposed to do there!" and then I go "Wait...I don't move like that"
I’m sure there is no way I know better than a 1650 MR Dhalsim, but I thought that in those situations were others would jump Dhalsim just went with instant air teleport
Is that not a thing?
Oh yeah its a thing, but there are a couple of key differences. IAT is not as strong against nuetral jumps, it is much less rewarding ( can't get a heavy button, only a light combo ) and you don't get an ambiguous cross up. Plus, if your opponent jab checks you are put into a forced knockdown state which means you can get combo'd out of the air.
Also, this one is kind of hard to describe but Dhalsims jump being so floaty makes nuetral jumping in the corner as a defencive option a lot weaker. If the opponent is just patient or has a wide DP you won't get a lot of millage out of changing teleport timing or working in float. They are gonna more or less just wait for you to descend and it doesn't matter on which side.
@@vahallen9876
That capybara fighter intro might be the best thing on RUclips - I'm all for it.
Tierlists like these are why I have started to dislike them in general because for me, the true test of whether or not a char is difficult to play should only be measured when they are FULLY optimized. Sure everyone can pick up a char and do the basic stuff fairly simply, but optimization is a whole other thing.
this can be solved by addressing whether you're talking about a character's skill floor or skill ceiling
it seemed like broski was talking about skill floor? but then he started talking about 1700 MR and shit, so idk
@@verbatim7508 Yeah I agree. Being specific with difficulty tierlists makes them less confusing and also more useful for the players.
He’s not making videos just using his pretty boring stream content and and cropping it for a RUclips video. Not like he’s put thought or effort into this pointless list
cammy slightly hard? bruh
TBF the one hard part about Cammy is proper dive kicking and having to play without a fireball
@@vahallen9876plus on block spin knuckle
what does this mean or prove bot?
@@bagofbananas790
@@vahallen9876you deadass get a move that goes through fireball, AND a dive kick…what are you on about? She seriously doesn’t fucking need a fireball
@@bagofbananas790Mfw anti airs exist
Dhalsim is fun. He has so many tools.
feng shui engine aint that easy to master tho, and thats her real potential.
Ive always thought sim was a cool character visually and finally decided to take the time to learn him and main him this game and while its rough sometime ive definitely gotten some free wins that i shouldn't have at the lower ranks because so many people have no clue what to do against him since they rarely see him. Also have gotten way more one and doners than with any other character
I think what pushes gief from medium to slightly hard is:
1. Inconsistent anti air means you have to constantly beware if the opponents exact spacing a timing of their jump or else you get stuffed out or crossed up
2. 3mp into SA1/SA2 is a pretty difficult input while also being mandatory to learn for every combo that uses super
I agree heavily, im biased but i also think gief is slightly hard arguably hard. 3mp into super is super awkward fr
Gief is hard for all the wrong reasons. Almost nothing works right or is way harder than it has any reason being.
@@HellecticMojo Fr, they wont have to buff him too much but maybe less whiff recovery frames, or making Ex lariat a true reversal and hit on both sides
“do you like going through bowsers castle? thats manon” @8:11 LMAOOO
edit: ty tofumaker for my laugh
what?
@@cj_oceanit's a comment on the chat, or you don't understand the joke they're making?
@@gerardorivas2811 i didnt see that this was said in the chat, but tbh i also dont understand the joke
@@cj_ocean It's just making fun of how you'd need to traverse through fireballs and stuff with Manon since she has to get close to be at her preferred distance.
So dodging fireballs with her twirl, long range pokes with the OD version of it, and jumping stuff to get in and score either a grab or a hit, would make it seem like a Mario game where you traverse through stuff to get to the end.
@@gerardorivas2811 ah lol ^^
thx
Chun-Li's down-down input for her DP seems easy until you consider the fact that she has to be standing still for at least one frame before and after each down input, and it can only be _straight_ down-it can't be 12, it must be 22, and because of all these rigid restrictions, it's more like 52525. I still find it incredibly awkward to do, and I've been playing Chun since launch. I would genuinely rather just have a 623 input for the move. That way, I'm at least able to walk forward while buffering DPs, crosscut with it, and I get access to the 323 shortcut. It also won't look like I'm teabagging you when I'm just getting ready to anti-air your jump-in.
THIS. i am really hoping as well that the dev will change the input to just 623. or maybe add it as an alternative like how they added mash input as alternative for her Hyakuretsukyaku in SF5. i'm fine with 22 input as a gimmick/install specials like on the other casts but as an urgency tool like AA i don't find it comfortable at all x.x
Like 66/44 is actually 5656/5454, 22 is really 5252, you don't need the last neutral input after 2nd down input
@@dh3014 You're right. Doesn't make it less awkward though. Actually, in the case of 66 inputs, Capcom knew this type of input was causing problems for some people, which is why they introduced the ability to perform Drive Rush cancels by hitting MP+MK instead of a dash.
I would love for upkicks to be a dp motion. Pls Capcom
Glad I found another Chun Li down down AA hater, Capcom plz just make it a DP motion
As someone who has played Cammy for a while now (52769 Kudos), i don't think she's hard AT ALL. She has very good pressure just by pressing a few buttons, her combos (not the flashy ones, just the common) can be easily executed... Idk what people sees hard about Cammy. For me, is one of the easiest character, not as Lily, of course, but putting her above Dee Jay and Chun-Li is wild for me.
Cant believe we found an honest cammy player in the wild
I think he's talking about the flashy high level stuff plus the spacing things that a lot of characters don't have to worry about. Like dive kick
The level of play is quite different. What is your master ranking as a frame of reference?
I think his placement for cammy vs deejay is off. If he's gonna put cammy at hard to play then so is deejay.
I don't think the Kudos are a meaningful metric, he's talking about gameplan in 1700+ MR which is not really that comparable to the ranges below
Easiest: The guy who beat me's character
Hardest: My main
Ain't no way Cammy is harder to play than Deejay
BRO PUT CHUN EASIER THAN CAMMY LMAO
Yeah, this guy be full of shit a lot.
Deejay has a bunch more tools you have to use, but they provide so much utility
No way u saying this 😂😂😂
Deejay one of the easiest characters to play. Just charge and mash sway
I would switch Chun and Cammy but I more or less agree. I don't know if you played Chun before but a down down input for an anti air sucks lol
Please give chun a normal DP input for the anti air for the love of god, this has been the only thing that I don't like about the character.
Cammy has to do a lot of work to get in and open your opponent up, when she does it’s a matter of mind games. If you screw up its back to trying to get in from full screen. Her mix game is also kind of overrated imo. Chun doesn’t really have these problems. Cammy’s strengths are things imo only slightly advanced to pro level players can take advantage of. The hardest thing about chun imo is her execution, but the game plan is simple and she’s quite adaptable.
Marisa is definitely easy af to play, its like Luke making opponent guess between charge knuckles/gladius except its every better for Marisa since charged Gladius beats DI. Marisa also gets auto spacing trap after every Gladius blocked. Kills opponent in two touches.
She's only easy as long as she's doing damage. If she guesses wrong and opponent gets oki she's not easy at all. Everyone at the top of "easy" (even Lily) has an invincible wakeup DP/FK to interrupt pressure and create space. Marisa has nothing reliable to do on wakeup without a lvl2 super.
Bro marissa not killing in 2 touches every time. Need high resources.
@@CrystalMang0 nobody said "every time". But it does happen quite often, you usually have lvl3 in the 2nd or third round. Even if it's not two touches, three is also easy and happens way more than other characters.
Totally agree, cause today I already was playing against this type of marisa players who just spam two abilities and after them DI 😂
As a Lily player, I can confirm that this placement is completely true.
Contradictory logic. You started off by saying a character being bad doesn't mean they're hard, but then immediately put DeeJay as easy because he's good.
Wrong. he put deejay in easy for the same reason he put lily. Because their game plans are brain dead.. he literally said “ charge moves add some difficulty to Deejay but aside from that there is too much reward for just pressing buttons”. Essentially meaning very little thought goes into being successful with them similar to juri lol.
Broski consistently said if you have a linear game plan you are easy character. Also Essentially that every one who can cancel cr/mk to dr is easy/slightly easy
@@Syrup4prezThen why is Ryu in the same tier as Ken and Luke? He is arguably harder to play with since he has worst tools then both of them. Since Ryu is such a simple character you’ve got to be creative with your game plan.
@@jotaromario2300 I see your point. But historically shotos have been considered easy characters. Luke ,Ken , and ryu are excellent characters for someone beginning to learn fighting games. Simply because their game plans are extremely simple. This idea is present in most games that have shotos. I agree that Ken and Luke are stronger than ryu, but that statement is assessing the strength of character tools rather then the difficulty of executing their vanilla gameplan
But Ryu isn’t easy and Juri is Brain dead in RIGHT hands. This guy is on crack with his tier list imho.
@@KejutoJetomoryu and Juri are both easy . Relative to characters that are actually difficult like Jamie. I agree that ryu is harder to play then Ken and luke, but the shoto play style is easy as hell at the end of the day. Having a fireball, Inv dp, and solid corner carry renders ryu capable in every situation. Which is why allot of people consider shotos boring.
As a Dhalsim and Zangief Main. Zangief is wayyy harder of a character.
I think the drink level level thing is pretty overblown in terms of complexity. You only need to remember level 1 is divekick, level 2 is breakdance and level 3 is command grab. Yeah, ok maybe level 4 is basically a new character, but if you hit level 4 you're probably about to win in the next 10 seconds (or about to lose all your drink levels)
bro right off the bat, cammy slightly hard to play and dee jay is easy? 😂
I think Gief opinion is all over the place because he's so poorly balanced in every way.
Nah he's actually balanced. It just that he is actually hard to play
@@angquangnguyenthac2833 no, he's very imbalanced internally. He's overtly dependent on SPD to carry him, his anti airs are all terrible. His run grab is nearly useless. The lariat is a terrible tatsu that goes nowhere for corner carry or pressure while also being a terrible anti air with no invincibility or the vertical reach.
Level 1 that once again doesn't work as anti air or even a reversal.
Level 2 that's very slow, can't hit air, and requires further meter to do any worthwhile damage.
@@HellecticMojo AKA you don't know how to play him and just rely on SPD to get by
@@angquangnguyenthac2833 try winning with Gief without SPD or level 3.
@@HellecticMojo I mean you can win like that if you know how to use his plus frame so point not taken.
I think theres two categories here. Easy for new people to play and easy for experienced players to play. An example, DJ, for a new player to fighting games, DJ is very hard due to him being a charge character and needing ro understand charging and buffering.
I've never played Dhalsim in previous installments. Somehow he just clicked for me in SF6. He was daunting to play at first, but once you get the float thing down, it get s easier.
He was traditionally much more a fullscreen zoner, which worked well because it wasn't possible to just DI to punish anything he does.
In SF6 he's kinda a rushdown character.
I don’t see how Marisa can be harder than juri.
Right, Juri is easy, but Marisa is fisher price levels of easy
@@waveysamurai7673any rank below plat you can just modern marisa hold down the autocombo button while mashing buttons and have a 40% WR
@@waveysamurai7673 Marisa is more of a challenge on defense. Juri has lol spinarooney DP.
Marisa is easier then juri
@HellecticMojo Marisa's defense is built into her offence.
I feel like Chun starts out hard because the stance stuff is weird, if you didn’t play her in SFV learning her SBK confirms off mediums is awkward for a bit, I would even say learning a 22 input DP is also weird after not using them before, but once all of that becomes combo muscle memory you can lean more on her neutral with 6/4MP, 2MK, etc.
Medium feels appropriate.
I disagree. People just have her neutral carry her, but I'm TELLING you with the fact that she has a floaty jump, air legs, and a harder to setup safejump makes her harder. Not to mention when the meta improves, she's gonna have to use more stance cancel in neutral for mixup. There's a reason you don't see a lot of them, it's because trying to make use of her tools takes away from the mental stack. It's just odd that he put Cammy below Chun since I play both and Cammy really just has to worry about spacing
Chun should be in slightly hard at least, hard at best. When he put Chun in medium I zoned out from the video. She’s execution heavy and easily goes into burnout. Not to mention her anti-air being more awkward to execute than a DP motion and inconsistent on top of that. He put her in medium because you “don’t have to use stance.” Not using stance on Chun is like not using FSE on Juri. You can still play the character but you will reach a competitive cap without the extra tool.
@@DrSwazzBig facts and agree on people not using fse on juri
You can say that about any character after getting used to them. him rating Cammy harder than Chun is just LOL tier and just invalidates the whole list
I was looking forward to seeing where you'd put Honda and I was not disappointed 😂😂. Only critique is that Sim isn't in the 'Not playing Street Fighter' tier lol
I agree. It feel you have to learn a whole new game to play him effectively
I have never seen a Guile miss perfect boom in so long. Saying that's hard is like saying perfect knuckles are hard.
Honda is only easy to play at low level. At high level it's quite the opposite.
Okay i played every single character and tried to get them as high as possible, aki is hard to win with, rashid is a 50/50, but those 2 characters are farely hard to play at first, but then its okay. Dhalsim is absolutely the hardest character in this list but something i don't personnally agree with is dee jay, this character has the same problem as rashid where if you actually want to play him, you need to work for your wins at first and then the gameplan is so varied that its hard to use exactly what you need to when you need, i'd actually put him one tier under aki and rashid
Lol no. There were plenty of Dee Jays in top eights. He ain't hard to play
@@AaronW0885brother, i meant evo, and the tournaments before that, try playing dee jay and tell me if its easy, he's at least in the same place as chun, and yes i do play both because i play everyone in the cast
Played deejay for a week. Got to master in about 6 hours of play and my win rate was above 80%.
By the end of the week I had 1800+ MR and I didn't even learned how to use lvl 2 lmao
@@ΚρανίΩI also play everyone in the cast and deejay is very easy.
Lol deejay working to just DR
This has some good information but often blurs the ease of use vs viability. Juri for example is easy to play simply/ poorly, but no mention of ca2 which is required at the highest level highlights my point.
sa2 on Juri is not difficult to learn
@@Cezkarma lol where do I even begin, I literally can't... Glad to know someone has the most dynamic install in the game all figured out though.
@@allero there is a difference between skill floor and skill ceiling. FSE has a low skill floor so it's no difficult, but has a high skill ceiling for creativity. How do you not understand that?
@@Cezkarma we are talking about if characters are hard to be effective with and you literally just said she has a high skill ceiling. Thank you for supporting my original point
@@allero my guy, a character can have a low skill floor and still have a high skill ceiling. But I can tell that you're still a newcomer to fighting games so these concepts may still be difficult to understand. I won't confuse you further.
This tier list makes none sense. Saying Cammy and Rashid are harder than JP and Ken is wild downplaying xD
Ken is easy though
i like the content Im subbed my dude, but this list kinda whack.
Saying cammy is harder than Chun li is wild😂
Charged flash knuckle is the hardest thing to do in the whole series
I got Master rank with Random select and I couldn’t disagree more with a lot of the choices here. Chun Li and Gief are up there with Rashid and Aki for the more difficult characters. Dee Jay is right behind them IMO. Cammy is very straightforward as well so im not sure how she is that difficult. I think broski is coming from a perspective of someone who is very good at playing quirky characters who are difficult to use well.
Deejay and Chun optimal is definitely way harder than half these at high level how crazy bias
As a Honda main I do enjoy the taste of glue after my dinner.
I'm not sure how i feel about him dismissing Chun as mid. To dismiss the part of her kit that she needs to keep up in damage seems a bit off to me
Zangief should at least be in “Slightly Hard”
chunli is med ur bugging ?? chun li is hard if you hope on playing high ranked matches she also does'nt have a throw loop to rely on like cammy and juri
Lol putting Deejay at easy just to put Cammy at hard 10 sec later is some biased shit.
Cmon you say that Deejay is easy cuz he can win random scrambles and then say that Cammy is hard to play at a high level... So are we talking low rank random scrambles or high level gameplay here?
Yeah i agree. No way is he in the same tier as Lily
All id change with this list is id move Guile into slighty easy(thats generous af too) and Chun into slighty hard because her combo routes seem mad unusual. Aki and Jamie main here
If you think Chun should be slightly hard only because of combos it’s wild that you think Guile should be slightly easy considering Chun doesn’t even have one combo comparable to any sort of perfect boom link
Like not even the same galaxy
@@vahallen9876perfect boom loop isn’t barrier to entry. You can zone and be good
@vahallen9876 Are you suggesting that because guile has perfect booms which he totally doesnt have to do hes hard to play?
@@maxwellscott-bz8bf you definitely need to master perfect timing for a lot of his optimal routes. Guile is one of the harder characters to fully optimize. At a high level you definitely need to be able to do his boom loops on command. And both sides have different timing. Boom loops makes Guile's corner game very scary. Because taking the throw, or getting shimmied into a loop is the decision. Remember Guile's throw loops actually require meter. I don't think he's hard, but he's beyond easy. I think medium is right. You'll see high level Guile starting to use his b. HP to perfect sonic boom combo starter. And it's actually pretty strict timing. It's an essential route at high level, because that means he gets really big and meter efficient conversions from hitting a b. HP. So these are important combos to learn at high levels, because top players aren't just going to jump at Guile 50 times in a match
As a mid-level player Chun-li is by far the hardest character in the game
As a former lily player i disagree with your statement. Hibiki the best never resorts to that basic strategy. I do however completely agree with Cammy she isnt as easy as people think
Hibiki is carrying Lily due his defense being ridiculous. She needs her windstocks to continue her momentum too, If she yolo's in and has no stocks to play with she's much weaker.
@@DayFul he is incredibly skilled but if you watch how he plays without wind stock he is still stupid. People need to rush him to prevent him getting a stock and he knows his options the best in that scenario
I think on the surface Dee Jay is somewhat difficult because of having no cancelable pokes and being a charge character, but both of those kinda go out the window when your most rewarding special is a motion special that can be combod into by literally every cancelable normal and every drive rush normal
Brain dead ass character
this doods list is halfway garbage. Cammy harder to play than Gief? I know you trippin
I think Chun Li is one of the absolute hardest
I like this list. Anything I would change is a nitpick. Switching Ken and Marisa, moving Gief to at least slightly hard. Otherwise I’m mostly in agreement
switch marisa to easy, switch places between chun and cammy and put guile on hard, and this is pretty much my list, chun is more of a personal bias because I just can't play the character I don't know exactly y, and guile has huge difficulty spike when u r actually trying to pull off some insane stuff and combos with him and u aren't just living off of zoning and target combos, at least from my master rank experience
This feels like a "how effective is a character's flowchart" tierlist more than anything else
Then I don't think you really watched the video.
Manon is my favorite crayon consumer. I agree she's braindead but it doesn't matter since I'm having so much fun.
Interesting list. I liked it. Guile mid is probably fair.
Pretty much agree with most things said, interesting topic
I'm curious how Guile perfect booms make him a medium, but Luke perfect knuckles don't budge him out of easy?
Is it because Guile needs his perfects, but Luke doesn't need his to win?
Salt
Broski is salty because Luke is too strong, that’s it
Which mind you, it’s true, but was not the point of the list but salt got in the way so he put him in easy
Luke has some really hard to execute combos, but then he also has crouch medium punch, so you tell me.
Ed is top 7 for sure
hau'oli city theme going crazy 🔥
Ken is easy, but alot harder if you optimize with run-cancle combos.
I wouldnt put Honda in a whole other category simply for the fact that he is a charge character. He is def is top 2 easiest to play though.
Tell me that Chun Li is hard please haha I'm stuck rn in plat 1 trying to main her. I think I'm getting there and then I'll forget how to play defense against JP, Guile, DJ :(
DW bro broski must be trolling cause aint no way chun is easier than cammy
I'm pretty sure other content creators would place her in slightly harder
Cammy takes no execution at all😭😭
I’m an Aki main and it gets rough. I’ve also played Manon, and I definitely had more fun with her.
But why are you playing a character you're not having fun with then? Having fun is the most important thing
@@raghugba863 Because I’m an Aki main.
@@DRAPEDinDARKNESS I guess you're right, my bad
Juri is hard to play in theory, her drive rush pressure is so braindead and easy to execute that is absurd is what everyone play her for, if s2 comes around and you have actually to use your resources properly and use feng shui is a different story
SF6 Chun-Li is definitely not easy at all, especially when compared to SF5 Chun-Li
Luke is not that hard, but has a lot of depth/tech.
The actual part that makes him somewhat hard: Hardest bread and butter (except for Guile) with his perfect knuckles, as they are three frames. Sometimes you just drop them.
Exactly my point
Luke might be super strong and therefore easier to win with, but he has a ton of depth (so not just perfect knuckle execution)
For sure, I can see that, and as you mentioned, a character being easy does not equal them being shallow, necceserly
Guiles execution is hard. If you want standard guile then medium
Guile mains on copium.
I'm an SF6 viewer rather than a player, and I actually don't get Honda's reputation as a braindead character
Anyone know the song playing in the background at 8:35 ??
good list bro
even capcom put chun as hard, one combo can have 3 plus serenity motions, the execution is not medium
What's funny is they simplified Dhalsim for SF6 by making his teleports much easier to execute and he's still like trying to play chess with a Mozart sonata
Dhalsim trying to compose while his opponent is clanging cymbals together like a wind up monkey and it’s still working
his teleport is much easier to perform at in exchange for not having invincibilty anymore.
Mostly disagree. Deejay just because of his Super 3 and Charge and some inputs agree hard. The easiest are Honda Luke Ken Ryu and so on ,Shotos. JP and Manon feel quite technical.
Thank you for justifying the fact that I can’t breach plat 3 cuz I play three of the hardest characters in the game
To add to support that Dee Jay's easy, you don't even need his level two to play, or you could simply use light punch version and mash through the whole thing. I Tried for hours in training mode and was still unable to do the complete lv2, yet it felt so much easier to win with him than even other easy characters like Luke.
True
How you think chun li easier than cammy?
That definitely threw me off. Chun and Kim are both harder than cammy
I have to disagree with your Chun placement. Her stance cancels are absolutely not just combo filler, but even if they were, they’re pretty difficult to pull off in clutch situations and it can completely change her combo routes.
I would indeed like a Gief is underrated video lol
I've never played older fighting games like Guilty Gear AC+R, what makes those characters so much harder to play?
Nothing. Bro is just yapping cause he has that oldhead mentality of "back in my day", and had to take a jab in Old Game vs New Game.
@@OgichiGame I would like to point out in +R every character had unique 2-3f unique timings for a lot of their kit. It's definitely not that older games are absolutely harder than newer ones, since they are competitive so that's not possible. but in terms of effort you have to put into learning a given character to use most of their tools, older games just had more barriers.
Y’all we all disagree with this Mf one way or another so let’s just give bro a dislike and leave
Gief is medium...?
I picked Gief as my main because I felt like he was Easy to play. :D
The only real ''struggle'' I've had to deal with is learning to handle those who like to Fireball and backdash and nothing else. Or just Fire-Dashing, as I call it.
List is kinda bad. The logic for who goes where is constantly changing with some characters placed due to strength and some due to gameplan
Bro Marisa and Manon in slightly easy but Cammy in slightly hard? What?
Hard disagree with a lot of these placements. Feels like a lot of the characters got placed based on his own like/dislike of them. JP is strong as hell, but he's very technical. He shouldn't be that low. Juri is also pretty difficult to play because she has to manage a resource she burns through easily while doing fairly poor damage. And speaking as someone who loves to play Zangief as a secondary, he's really easy. His game-plan is just, get in, grab. Is he good? No. But is he easy? Absolutely. The skill floor and ceiling for Gief are both pretty low.
I absolutely love how you have like and Ken as easy while they’re also top tier lol
So what ?
Feels like some of these choices are due to not playing the characters like juri and Kimberly. All respect, tho.
I think with all the mental attack in this game, ease of execution would be more crucial. I think this can easily be conceptualized by how different the character plays in modern.
The more the character changed with perfect execution, the more execution heavy the character in classic, the more difficult that character is to play in a high level mental stack.
Just my opinion, but characters that take a lot of components to play neutral, and perform punish combos should be lower in the list.
I don't get this list and what is the metric ( hard to learn ? hard to excecute ? hard to win ? From newbie POV ? From pro player POV ? ). Learning all the JP set-up and learning how to zone properly isn't easy at all. Same with DJ, it's hard to use his tool correctly .... just because JP carry us at low level, he is easy ? OK so Cammy is easy too then, since when do we need her dive kick to reach master ? I have harder time wining with Ryu than Cammy cause with ryu you need good fontamental you can't just use bullshit stuff to "outplay" people. This list make no sense because there is no precise metric.
As I main both Jamie and Chun-Li atm, i think Chun-Li should be in the slightly hard category too. Kinda ehhhh to have 22K as an anti-air and trying to mix charge inputs with some combos here and there
cammy is easy. chun li is hard
As a honda main, im hurt
As someone who's been victim of execution barrier since I started fighting games, every character is at best in medium .
My so called life...
Dee jay should be harder because you need to get the use of lite out of your head
I think Luke is among the hardest character in the game
He is super fucking strong, arguably the strongest character in the game but he has a thon of tech, a bagillion different tipe of knockdown/ combo enders
To truly be a good Luke there is a ton of stuff you can learn, he still performs without all the tech because of how good he is, but Luke is one of the character with the most depth
Also, Luke has no real neutral skip outside of raw DR or wack ass special that mixes the opponent by itself
Luke is NOT HARD TO WIN WITH, but he is not an easy or shallow character
I dropped Juri for Aki because she's so easy its boring to play as her. Capcom make Juri interesting again pls!
On the contrary, many people showed that although she has Juri as her waifu they simply didn't play her like Baiken before Guilty Gear Strive because she was difficult, I guess the reverse happened to you.
Learn Feng Shui before dropping her. If you don't have the willpower to learn the hardest lvl 2 in the game don't go complaining to capcom telling them to make her "interesting"
@@matrxzeno4761Feng Shui isn't as hard as your making it out to be. I spent a few weeks doing just that because I thought that was the most interesting part of Juri in this game. But even if it was it doesn't change the fact that Juri is pretty easy and uninteresting outside of that one super.
@@xravia79 its the hardest lvl 2 install to utilize properly you really cant change my mind on it
@@matrxzeno4761 you also don't need to use it. Juri level 2 is techinically really great, but it's also worthless because it's pretty redundant. It doesn't really force the opponent to change their gameplan when you activate it. Compared to a level 2 like Jamie or Guile which provides strong utility, it's just kind of a "win more" button.
Playing DeeJay is not easy at all, but regarding him easier than Luke is downright offensive.
DJ's placement could definitely use some extensive thought
Will you ever make an aki guide
Im a blanka main and I’d put him in medium once you get over the hurdle of charge controls he’s not that hard.
Wow… Juri is easy??? What????
Cammy harder to play than Deejay 🥸