Why Isn't Battles 2 As Popular As BTD6?
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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they fucked up the launch so badly that their player count on steam is down NINETY-FIVE PERCENT from peak
That is most games... many people tried it out I bet and didn't like it cuz it isnt btd6
@@darthhydreigon820It’s a good game now but at launch was horrendous
@@darthhydreigon820 90% of people arent gonna give a game a 2nd chance, first impressions matter just as much about games as they do irl. i would know as someone who immediately quit during launch and never got the desire to replay
for comparison, bloons td battles is down 75% from peak after eight years
Battles 2 is nearly unplayable without watching good players play or watching guides because it just plops you down with zero tutorial and expects the player to understand how to play. Then, grinding takes forever for a new player (it's much better now but still could be better) which might ruin the fun for some people. Very anti-beginner.
I mean I figured it out pretty well and got to HoM basically by just playing casual against my equally bad friend
@@aarav6947 it just introduces too much at once
@@aarav6947 If you got to HOM through the league system then... is it really a true HOM? If not, nice.
@@-BasicKal it is so easy to get to HOM it’s a problem
@@aarav6947 Yeah.
Battles 2 is definitely made for veterans who love BTD6, not for casual players
terrible launch
Agree
Yeah pretty much. The start was so horrible (and so blatantly pay2win) that I immediately lost interest. Even if it got fixed later, it's too little, too late- I've already moved on to other stuff.
Followed up by terrible management
Terrible grind
It wasnt p2w, it was pay to grind@@iridium137
What BTDB2 lacks is a proper alternative mode where you can take time to learn basic stuff instead of just throwing random stuff at the wall and praying it works. A tutorial, so to speak.
A super-in-depth quest system similar to the one in BTD6 would go a looong way to teach players both simple and advanced BTDB2 techniques.
Unlock Progression sucks so terribly it immediately feels bad to spend time playing
Getting a Hero alt in battles 2 is grindy as hell.
True
Ikr,and the mastery stuff for towers, I literally have under 5mastery stuff
The initial launch was terrible. I quit after forty hours then came back when they launched the club pass and bought that. I played for twenty more hours. At this point I had two extra heroes and a few tier five towers and that's it.
The grind is stupid.
I just want to be able to use everything so I can play around with different strategies/heros
can't you?
@@JoelTheParrot Grinding for a hero is pain
@@TamiGeorge-vs1ug Hmmm heroes are a maybe, hero ALTS are a definite yes but that's why you have the hero trials for both
@@JoelTheParrotthe thing is hero Alts are different making it actually necessary if you want them
@@los-lobos I didn't say they weren't, but they're not the basic heroes and, again, hero trials. (Those work on the hero alts as well)
This game has no new player introduction and when you lose r11 to zebra rush, nothing ever tells you why and you have to go "oh, this doesn't defend so I guess I should try juggernaut instead of sharp shooter." Games at low-level are very boolean - your defense either holds fine or you lose immediately, and spending ages ecoing to get to that point for your defense to die r11 (purples), then r13 (rrod), then r17 (MOAB), then r18 (fMOAB) and the game to essentially say "Skill issue, have you tried being better at the game, maybe you would have won" is extremely unfun as a new player.
And ofc the grind is still there
Doesn't invalidate it, but the BTD games really don't have much in tutorial content besides the hero ones, which are okay.
Boss bloons kind of point this out for BTD6 since you're not taught how to farm with Farms or abilities, and if media about it wasn't made, like Paragons and the Monkeyopolis for example, most runs would have a harder time getting proper defense and money for the later tiers
@@nameynamd9212 It has the tutorial messages every few rounds like most other BTD games, which explain the bloons, abilities are explained with the descriptions, and farming is pretty self-explanatory.
Wasn't the infamous rush the round 12 purple swarm?
@@godlyvex5543 The tutorial messages is fair, though they felt more like flavor text to me(less so for abilities since they detail specifics unlike most 5th tiers)
Farming is simple in using money to buy farming to make more money, but for upgrades like the 5th tier bannana farms for example, they tell you nothing of what the tower does
>Releases game in a awfull state
>Does nothing but band-aid fixes for the first few months
>Kills off 95% of the playerbase
>Game is now seen as dead
I hope ninja kiwi learned from that mistake and wont fumble the release of bloons card strom
@@theultra-fang ninja kiwi seems to have been doing a LOT of playtests for bcs, so it seems like things will go well
I also think this game doesn't leave much room for fooling around. It's exclusively PvP, 1v1, and a single mistake can very quicly turn into a loss. So you have to be constantly on edge, you feel the pressure when you know you're behind, you don't want to mess up when you are in front ...
bro hasnt seen the new ranking system yet
literally all competitive games
We want to be able to use every tower and hero combo for more diverse strategies, not grind for a month to get one hero alt unlocked
Lol it's like 30 wins gets you 3k if you win 3 games a day it will take you like 9 days
I was initially excited for Battles 2, as I was an avid Battles 1 enjoyer, but since I had never played any other Bloons games the heros and 3 upgrade paths were too overwhelming for me, so I gave it up pretty quickly. Plus I felt like the main menu screen had too much going on compared to the simple design of Battles 1
played at launch when it was p2w and never touched it again after realizing how bad the grind was. never came back even
Battles 2 deserves better
Its ui annoys me and It makes it feel like I'm playing a more generic tower defense game.
Not just ui but also the effects and amount of lag is barley bearable
what???
I agree, the ui absolutely disgusts me. I’ve played the original btd battles, and it looks more classic with better balance changes
@@axinal2855 what about the ui??? what????
@@JoelTheParrotAt a guess, the blue background for the left side's bar and the placement of what your loadout is at the center(more so for a competitive game than a tower defense game)
That makes sense
Most of the biggest issues from launch have been fixed- tower balance, more to do, much less grinding, people just need to give it a second chance
The game requires too much attention to be paid to it for most people. A lot of apm is required to play the game as well. on top of a game like this is always gonna have some sort of meta-that you kinda have to oblige to more than a single player game. That’s gonna drive away most of the casual players. That’s what keeps me away I don’t want my mobile game which I just pick up and play for a few minutes at a time to require a big time sink and I can’t stop in the middle and pause my game like I can in btd6. And for the PC players your options of games are a lot more vast if you’re going to sit down on a PC and play a game like this.
A good BTD six analogy. If I’m going to load into an odyssey am I going to pick Quincy or Corvus as my hero to commit for the 5 maps.
I'd how to describe it, but battles 2 feels cheaper than btd6. The UI in particular just doesn't feel good to look at. It's hard to get used to positions of buttons when your side of the screen is inconsistent between matches, and it's so cramped into the edge of the screen, while the other half of the screen is near useless. I think the game would feel a lot better if the player was always on one side of the screen, you shrunk the opponents screen to be about half the size it currently is, and used that new dead space for the menu.
Why they decided to remake the whole animations and designs instead of using the already-existing ones in BTD6 is beyond my mind
what????
@@mohannad_139 to make it look better...
they made everything more zoomed in so that action is more clear, and because it's more zoomed in they had to make the models hold up better at a closer angle.
plus they wanted to include the heroes in more animations that are REALLY up-close
@@JoelTheParrotyour definition of better worries me
@@A.R_69 what a thoughtful and engaging counterargument! /s
I thought the FOMO was really toxic and quit because of that.
I want to enjoy this game and play it, but my reaction time sucks and my Internet ain't good either
I was excited for it on launch, but that disaster of a release left a bad taste in my mouth and I haven't wanted to come back. It also got real old real fast dealing with incredibly sweaty players. Maybe that part isn't as bad as it was on launch, but I don't care to find out. I don't really know what they can do to get me to try it again.
Why? Beacuse it's missing one Feature *SANDBOX* Bloons TD Battles 2 Doesn't Have Sandbox...
Adding sandbox will be cool for people already playing, it won't drag in that many people
battles 2 is sorta beginner friendly. you can get most of the towers and get them to tiers 1-4 pretty easily and chill until moab pit. the only limiting factor is really the heroes and some late game scenarios, and maybe just sending round 11 purples can be tough. I really don't know why it's not too popular! i wish it was more popular so there were resources for finding out things like "what does ace excel at", or "how to defend well with gwen when the opponent knows well enough to send purples"
Unlocking tower upgrades is so much grindier than in btd6 imo. I don't have the time to grind for every 5th tier, but i still want to enjoy the game
I feel like this is something battles has always struggled with. when working with a competitive game there are always a couple optimal strategies; those that work in most situations, and those that counter the first category. in the case of btdb there's a massive gap between the skill level of the top players and everyone else, so the optimal strategies work without fail against 90% of players and then suddenly you're hit with a bunch of expert players in a row who know exactly how to counter your optimal strategies, but you've never encountered resistance before so to be suddenly stomped out is frustrating and can be quite perplexing as to what to learn from the situation. additionally, some aspects of the game, such as bloon sending for income, really don't have any nuance besides *how hard can you greed.* being icarus, trying to fly on the edge of your limits, often leaves you burned and unsatisfied with the game. these have always led to battles dwindling over time, always shrinking, never growing.
Isab what if you make a beginner friendly guide on how to play this game
I wonder if it's necessary for you to grind to unlock towers and upgrades. Even if the grind isn't as nearly as bad as it is on launch, is there really any reason that you can't have all the towers and upgrades from the get go?
Because there would be no progression then, this is game design 101
@@MainChannel9521 idk if progression is as important as it is in battles 2 conpared to btd6. Battles 2 is mainly about competing with other players and getting into higher level arena could also show progression.
For me at least, forcing players to use only Primary tower feels like the game is restricting the players to learn strategies using other towers. I personally prefer having all the towers but not all the upgrades because you can still use the towers to a certain extent to find strategies you're okay with
@@nicebrownmaen3230 unlocking other towers is piss easy, stop being a bum and wanting everything for free
@@MainChannel9521sorry for wanting to be on a level competitive playing field?
@@MainChannel9521 I have mastery for everything already
I think they need a goal other than Clans and Ranked. Card Storm is getting a dedicated story mode and like, Battles 2 needs something like that.
Oh, and tournaments, but that's just another competitive thing. But at least it's something other than Clans or "BEing the Very Best"
Maybe it'll be more, but Card Storm's single player content is probably going to be closer to PvZH's(and more the endless scenarios than the story ones)
@@nameynamd9212 I don't know why people assume I know everything about PVZ just because I play Bloons. PVZ1? Good. Yes, PVZ1 was good. Yup.
@@JoelTheParrot Sorry if it came out that way, but that was the first comparison of a simple single player mode I could think of
@@nameynamd9212 Fair enough, but I'd like a more in-depth explanation still lol
@@JoelTheParrot It starts out as sets of stages that have a comic aesthetic story as they show the whole cast, but after doing so repeats them with different modifiers in each set and without new story(so more the second half)
"If players are casual the only way is to make games less competitive"
4.0 league update: "Say no more"
Hello, welcome to your daily dose of commentary, today we start with the topic:
*-Why is battles 2 not as popular as btd6?*
Bloons, imo is better as a casual game than a competitive one. Another good example is left 4 dead.
Because they didn't understand what everyone did.
They focused on rushing when everyone wanted late games.
Ninja kiwi has a very dated approach to progression in all of their games, this game probably has it the worst
I loved battles 1 and watched u play that for eons and btd6 let me rediscover you and love the franchise again but battles 2 never really intrigued me at all. I never really gave it a fair shot but I think that’s because of the really bad taste that the end of battles 1s lifespan gave me.
Why don't they just fuse the two games together instead? Maybe more people will be attracted cause i'm sure alot of person doesn't know about battle 2
good idea tbh
It might take up too much space
one is free one cost money how that works
for me, it’s because battles 1 is just nicer to play. I like it’s micro and speed while battles 2 feels slow and clunky.
Losing to multiple tier 5 towers in competitive when you only have access to tier 4's feels unreasonable.
It just kept crashing, and the lag, and the grind. Nothing to keep me coming back and it doesn't work enough for me to care with my limited time. I'd rather watch ISAB.
Battles 1 is and will forever be the best battles
I don’t understand how people can grind out black borders and post-round 100 records, but not hero alts.
Additionally, the ubiquitous power of farms means people see similar gameplay at higher levels, which is less visible in lower arenas because everyone is trying to build up fundamentals.
Grinding out black borders is actually fun tho
@@A.R_69Not in a mean-spirited way, but what about it is fun?
For example, the player bloon sends being the same on certain rounds could be parallel to spamming the same meta towers if you use them on either the same or multiple maps
@@nameynamd9212the difference mainly lies in how the sense of progress is different. In black boardering, you're playing the same gameplay with the goal getting ever closer but with grinding a hero alt, you're basically being made to wait an long while *not* playing the game how you want before you unlock the ability to play how you want. It's different because black boarders are done for accomplishment, not to be allowed to play the game as a whole the way they would like
I don’t wanna play PvP.
it's the competitive version of a game that 99% play when they want to take a break from competitive games
For me battles2 just feels wierd. I love btd6 and normal battles is amazing but battles2 is just strange in a way i cant explain
Its a strategy game, but with the unpredictable element that you dont know what the other person is going to do. Unpredictability doesnt usually work well in strategy games
For a wave-based strategy game, sure, but for something like an RTS, unpredictability complements it
it’s not really that unpredictable when you know every send and what round it can be sent and how you need to defend it with a given load out. That’s just a fundamental part of the strategy in the game.
Well because BTD6 is way better, but I wish BTDB2 was more popular
Same reason why I play COC I stead of clash royale. I don't like facing other people directly 😐.
*instead
after they launched as a completely p2w game i lost interest and never checked back again
it wasn't even pay to win it was pay to grind -.-"
bloons monkey city 2 when
Battles 2 messed up at launch, and while it improved it never really became good enough for me to consider it a game
Plus BTD6 is just better in every way and it's actually surprisingly simple to get the game for free, even though it is well worth the price
Because it's a competitive pvp game instead of a casual pve game like 6. Next question
They messed up the launch, most players (including me) left the game and never come back. Also the ultra-competitive natur of the game, which is not so fun to play for casual players. I could always just play BTD6 instead.
It's like the Minecraft problem the btd6 game is good and the other games don't live up to it and good only in the beginning
I was really hoping to have a good time when it came out thinking of so many cool tower combos I could try and run aaand it comes put and you don't even have tier 3s unlocked you have less upgrades unlocked than you did in fucking battles 1
I don't think I'll ever come back I don't care that they fixed that issue just the insult that was the launch alone made me never wanna give it another chance
Pre powers update battles one just felt more inviting like everyone could have a good time weather your good at the game or not but battles 2 turns it into a sweat fest by adding an elo system
And seeing it's server problems and other game breaking issues months after launch sealed the deal for me i just don't wanna bother with this game again I'll suck at it and it won't be fun
I haven't played since launch, but I hear the game still lags like a mfer on mobile. That greatly affects any desire to play a micro intensive game.
This actually isn't too bad of a problem anymore, it's way better than btd6 co-op in terms of lag. Bring a stable internet connection though, preferably Wi-Fi.
The game failed to have a good launch and after most people left they started to fix the game when it was already too late
Honestly i think youtubers are killing btd2. They have the time to find the smalles glitches and meta strategies while people like me who do like a little competitiveness but have a life and dont have 12 hours of my day to try to find the glitches or meta strategies. The other problem is that you get beginners watching their videos and try to replicate what they do but obviously it takes a while to manage properly so you get no chance to actually play the game because it always finishes round 10.. and then because you win all these round 10 matches you get thrown in higher arenas where the players know what second to place a tower or upgrade it and its like what is the point. You either get players that more or less exploit the game mechanics or players that try to replicate that and fail. Also the disadvantage of playing on mobile is... spend money for farmers and ballon bot, start the game, place them down and the game finishes
I don't like BTDB2 for a couple of reasons. #1: I don't have the skill for it. Not afraid to admit it. #2: I don't like competitive multiplayer games. It's why I picked up BTD6 in the first place, because it's VERY possible to ignore all the multiplayer aspects of that game and still have countless hours of fun. #3: It seems much more computer-friendly than mobile-friendly. I understand that that's basically part of the mobile experience, but it's still a handicap that I just don't want to try to overcome.
your reasons mainly link to it being too competitve, but i agree
I hate battles 2. Its not even playing but griding this shitty updates or heros just to try few times. Love btd6 tho
Battles 2 isn’t popular because everyone is straight trashhhh. I literally was new to the game and got to zomg so easy. That’s literally second highest arena. It’s so boring because everyone so trash, also getting t5 and hero’s unlocked takes forever(without premium)
I dont like competing against people like you do in battles. Too much pressure and not chill enough for me
isab i fr clicked a video on your main channel and the second i saw it was battles i closed it and reported it ❤
Its just play for not fun or good rewards. And its just not as fun, even the new Cards game is waaaay more fun ❤
Its so hard to play on mobile.
battles 2 is js so buns😞
the game failed because NK employed terrible mobile game design philosophies instead of making a serious go at it.
Honestly, mainly, the towers in btdbattles just suck compared to btd6. Like i know, they had to nerf them to make it, so you lose, but they are actual garbage plus the launch was horrid.
Bloons begun as a casual game. Battles 2 is competitve and wildly toxic. Enough said. Also, the recent league update is garbage. Whoever came up with it needs to be fired
They launched a horrendous release version then took a break for months. Comically awful start lol. The game is cool they just irreparably messed up the release
Pls perm Budda
The biggest issue with Battles2 IMO is that its a separate launcher from BTD6. If you had both in the same game client the barrier to go back and forth is much lower
The first guy has 1 brain cell, Btd6 is way more boring and repetitive
I Want To Comment With No Idea *What* To Comment
Oh that is extremely simple.
1) Battles are not baked in into BTD6 - Why? Why people have to download a new game just to play same shit but with worse graphics? Just by not having Battles be a part of BTD6 you are removing ton of players who otherwise could actually give the game a try.
2) There is no tower information in the game. Noone knows the pierce values or anything and can't look any of this up quickly within the game. Unless you know all of this after researching online you know nothing, so you are bound to be losing games left and right. And even if you learned all that crap online, you are bound to forget some of it at some point and will have to look it up again... Why not just add some 'press alt to see detailed stats' functionality?
BTD is by nature a casual game, asking people to do research online is already too much to ask.
3) Battles are real time rather than round based which goes against BTD6. Tower defence gamers most of the time just want to play with their mouse and nothing else. Having battles be real time where most wins happen because someone just spams some rush and uses boost is instantly going to push typical tower defence gamers away.
Basically the game is designed extremely badly in regards to attracting more casual playerbase. Idk who exactly it's supposed to target... BTD6 sweatlords?
1) wdym worse graphics the graphics are literally only improved??? also the game needs separate balancing and lots of different systems and at this point can't be put in BTD6 because it's not even in the same engine.
2) BTD6 has that too everyone just uses wikis. BOTH games need an in-game wiki
3) what is "spams some rush and uses boost" what lol? also how would it not be round based? i could maybe see it pausing for a moment but that'd only slow it down
4) well that's kind of the fate of this sort of design. what in the world do you want???
"Normal casual gameplay gets boring eventually so battling someone can be quite fun"
From someone who has never played battles-(me)
@@JoelTheParrot 1. your right, but hes also right that its just means less people are gonna wanna try it
2. this game needs the stats more available than btd6 because its competitive. although i wish both haad in game wiki
3.hes saying it adds the skill of "reaction speed". a seperate layer of skill most of the btd6 player base doesnt want to deal with. people playing btd6 arent the same people playing FPS's
4. hes saying the game was doomed from the start as long as it was marketed competitively.
@@badateverything2931 1. technically yes but that's like saying "you know mario platformers should ALSO be put on the phone, sure they'd be 1 fps but imagine how many people would play them!
2. yeah did i disagree?
3. how is reaction speed only an FPS thing what? what in the world are you on about?
4. BUT THAT'S WHAT IT IS
@@JoelTheParrot 3. Its not, but pointing player base type difference
4. didn't have to be tho, NK missed making something players want
It is definitely due to the terrible launch
Skill issue
arena leagues
Either me or the other player disconnected for 50% of matches from my experience so i stopped touchiing the game
The UI is absolute garbage. That alone made me hate it. Also the littered micro transactions. I get it’s a free game but it makes it really suck. I would rather it cost money or if you link your account then if you already own btd6 then no more adds or constant pushing of you to spend money
what
worse launch than halo infinite
please give bcs access
not how it works
sorry
@@nyeakz it's ok :) I hope you get in the next opportunity of early access!
first🤓☝️
He sucks at battles
Because it sucks