What's inside an electric vehicle gearbox? A look inside an EV reduction gearbox. PART 1
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- In this video I look inside an electric vehicle gearbox. These are simple devices and simply reduce the speed of the electric motor down (that's why they're called a "reduction gearbox") and house the differential. This particular reduction gearbox is from a Hyundai Ioniq Electric 28kWh that's done 100,000 miles. All the Kia & Hyundai EVs use a very similar reduction gear. But then so do all electric vehicles.
Part 2 video • What's inside an elect...
To see other Hyundai Ioniq EV videos, see the playlist • Hyundai Ioniq EV 28/38kWh
Please subscribe and have a look at the back catalogue of EV videos on this channel, see / gogreenautos
Why not follow Go Green Autos on Facebook at / gogreenautos ?
For EVs for sale, see www.gogreenautos.co.uk/for-sale
For referral codes, see www.gogreenautos.co.uk/referr...
Timestamps
00:00 How it works
01:50 Ioniq differences
02:55 Oil lubrication
04:15 Magnets
06:10 Lifespan
06:44 Park lock
08:23 Simple compared to ICE transmissions
#gogreenautos #evlearning #hyundaiioniq #hyundaiev #gogreenautosuk 
Авто/Мото
More videos like this please! 🤓
I will try. I don't get many opportunities to take things apart.
That park actuator could be eliminated by adding a good old fashioned pull up hand brake lever. Love them.
In a previous life, I was an automotive parts person, and that plastic gear looks a lot like a speedometer drive gear. Not sure that's what it is, but that's what it looks like to me.
Exactly what I was thinking!
Looks like it ought to drive something doesn't it?
My first Zoe had a manual handbrake. Much preferred to the electronic one on our current Zoe.
The park brake, either manual or electric, is not the same as the Park on the gearbox. The park brake is using the rear brake pads. The Zoe still has a Park pawl like this in the gearbox. I'm going to make a video about this subject this week as many are getting this wrong and parking their cars wrong which is causing damage.
Well, using a mechanical break you would loose the amazing "AUTO HOLD"- function on that car...
@@GoGreenAutos The ZE50 does not have a park pawl, however you are correct that the original 22kWh and the 41kWh Zoes do.
First impression is it looks well made and robust. I also like the simplicity.
My ENV200 reduction box had the diff disintergrate at about 60,000 miles🙁. I bought a second hand complete gearbox and fitted it myself for £500.
Even though there were thousands of metal particles, they had all been collected by the two magnets, which supprised me.
It is a good idea to not use full throttle from standstill, as the torque from electric motors is immense, and untill the gears are spinning you are asking all that torque to be transmitted by only couple of teeth
The fact that the gears rotate faster than ICE cars is good! If the gear rotates twice as fast, the strain that each tooth sees at that instant in time is halved.
Nissan Leaf and ENV200 gearboxes are prone to having chunks of metal in the oil!
A properly designed gearbox should handle the load but a careful owner would be wise to get rolling before hammering it.
Interesting to see inside the gearbox, thanks. My daughters Zoe only managed to do 8k miles before gearbox started making a loud banging noise. Just had new gearbox & drive shafts on Renault warranty. All running well again now 😅
Seems to be a common problem with Zoe
It would be awesome if you filmed putting it on again, so we have an idea of how it's done. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Matt, As always a very enjoyable and informative video.
Cheers Bob.
Glad you enjoyed it
Really informative, had no idea how they worked.
Glad it was helpful
Hi Matt, good video, what was the reason for having the gearbox apart?
As a future Ioniq owner I've been closely following all of your videos to educate myself on what to look out for e.g. battery coolant crystalisation on the 38kWh's. Thanks
Thank you for that interesting look inside, did you unmount it just for your video?
Very interesting, that's the stuff we wouldn't see elsewhere
The race on that right ball bearing definitely looks like it has rotational wear from spinning against the casing.
Ooh I did enjoy that! Do love seeing the working innards of anything. Thinking about that parking actuator failing, I guess rather than going to the local greasy muddy breakers yard for parts like that we'll be going to dedicated EV recycling hubs where they separate out all the useful parts from old EVs. Just like the breakers yard but with less grease and no mud!😅
Breakers yards are a thing of the past now. Its now an eBay search instead!
You might find this video interesting on how the breakers yard has evolved...ruclips.net/video/pnh1PRBQOPc/видео.html
@@GoGreenAutos oh yes, I'd forgotten all about Jonny's video. I'd obviously seen it because I'd "liked" it! Don't think I'd taken in that it all ends up on eBay though.
I've never actually used eBay so I'm not familiar with how it works. We use Amazon but guess we really ought to find out more about eBay, thought it was some kind of auction site, just a thing that kids to buy stuff on to be honest.😄
Incredible video. Very informative. I love how simple this gearbox is and how durable it has proven to be after 100,000 miles.
It's interesting that the park actuator is the most complex piece and the common point of failure. It looks like Hyundai went with serviceability for that which bodes well for cost and complexity should I need to replace mine at some point.
The Zoe ZE50 has done away with a park pawl and all others need to do the same as this is a cause of wear and problems, which I'll be highlighting in a video in a month's time.
@@GoGreenAutos nice! Hopefully the other car manufacturers follow suit. Looking forward to that video when you post it!
@@AlainODea the park pawl design was poor in the Kia Soul EV and this in the Ioniq is the improved result. I haven't seen any issued raised on any later H/K EVs.
@@boredKiwi good to know! Thank you. I think Hyundai has positioned themselves well here.
The park actuator… demonstrating why, you should always apply the park brake on an automatic (EV or ICE)… never leave the weight of the car sitting on the gearbox…
Yes, I'm just making a video about this subject. Many new EV drivers are parking their vehicle wrong.
I agree although doesn't the park brake come on automatically or have I dreamt that? Maybe it's just me that does it automatically! 😂
@@judebrown4103 On some cars, yes. But only when certain conditions or sequences are met.
@@GoGreenAutos ah the Ioniq 38 is my first EV so wasn't sure if that was the case...👍
Really simple gear reduction box. Im guessing any metal filling will be coming from the park lever/gear. The oil drained out of my ioniq was fairly black but no metal particles at all. I think the magnetic drain plugs are not worth putting in. May be good practice to change the oil after 20/30k miles. No big deal even if a bearing fails . Theres so many reasons why the electric car is going to be more reliable long term than a ice car. That needs highlighting more.
Yes, good practice to change the oil every 50K or so. I've done videos about this on the channel.
Thank you for your educational video a great view of the inner workings of an ioniq gearbox
Are the rear handbrake actuators similar to the park one on the gear housing ?
Well, in that they are an actuator, so it spins a shaft or gear. But a completely different shape and size.
Thanks for your videos. There were some misconceptions I had about electric cars before I knew more about them. Ie I thought there were 2 separate electric washing machine-type motors, one on each wheel driving them which I thought was a high maintenance and complicated way of doing it. But now see it is just like a normal ICE engine drive.
We've just bought a used Nissan leaf (we did do a test drive and it ran nice) and will be collecting it on Wednesday really just because of ULEZ and the daily £12.50 charge. We are now back to a 2 car family. The Leaf for everyday local (and not so local) journeys and our diesel for our touring around the UK. Hopefully, we will recoup some of the money by not having to pay the ULEZ charge, and money on diesel using overnight cheap charging.
The only thing we found funny about the car is it still had 12 bars, was a 2014 and had 60k on the clock. Wondering if its a new battery or the original driver just drove it really well.
Yes many think EVs have in wheel motors or small motors on each wheel.
It would be extremely rare for a 2014 Leaf to be still on 12 bars. Good find. You have to remember if it drops to 11 bars, you're battery SoH hasn't dropped loads - its just dropped 0.1%.
Interesting to see one opened up - thanks!
Given how clean and good condition your example is gives question to what a servicing ‘inspection’ would achieve…
Would it just be an external visual inspection for leaks / condition?
Yes the inspection is just looking for leaks and undo the fill plug to check the oil level.
Yet Nissan say don’t change the fluid …. ever. I had mine changed (ENv200) at 30k, and it came out black. I’m guessing at 60k it would have been awful if I’d not changed it. Vehicle manufacturers seem to love this ‘for life’ tag on their cars, even though it may well need regular changing to prolong the life
Why did you take gearbox out? Was there an issue?
Very intersting. Never new about the park actuator. This is probably also an additonal reason VW put drum brakes on id3-5: they can additonally apply the handbrake to the rear wheels with no fear of the brakes blocking in minus degrees (freezing against the rims) or glueing to the disks in 40 degrees. Also no rust like the rear disks always have on EVs or cars used on short journeys/ no hard braking. I wonder if there is even a handbrake or autohold on EVs?
Yes there is autohold and park brakes on EVs and the handbrake MUST be used to hold the weight of the vehicle, not the park pawl in the gearbox. I'm going to make a video about this as many don't realise the damage they are doing.
As a note, you've made a minor error in describing the orientation. The motor is positioned forward of the final drive when installed in the vehicle, not above. Following that, your identification of the drain and filler plugs was subsequently reversed. The nylon gear would be used on other applications of the final drive gear assembly, nothing to do with oil flow; it's missing in the Kona and Niro. But, I'm grateful that you've inadvertently demonstrated the reason the oil turns black when you pulled out the magnet, which you saw was retained only loosely in its pocket. Because the nearby final drive gear turns counter-clockwise in that view, the magnet rattles and spins under the impingement of oil flung off the gear, just like any object does on the ground when sprayed with a garden hose. That magnet will be collecting wear particles from the gears but then rubbing them against the aluminium housing as it spins. That abrasion could be wearing some aluminium off (can you have a look for signs of that wear?) which I believe is why most used-oil lab analyses from the Ioniq, Kona and '19-'22 Niro show highly-elevated levels of both iron and aluminium. Iron particles lose their magnetic attraction after being 'working' in this way, so they leave the magnet and return to the oil. Non-serviceable magnetic oil filtration is common in automotive applications, the Bolt is one example among EVs. Over the car's lifetime the capacity to retain particles should be sufficient, provided it's held rigidly. H/K seems still unaware of this problem and I suspect the infamous wheel-of-fortune noise was the result. Several owners have rebuilt their gearbox (one commented below) and in all cases the ball bearings were found to be rough, which pretty much conforms this idea. H/K would have been smart and possibly saved a few million dollars to simply delete the captive magnet years ago and install a normal magnetic drain plug instead. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for pointing this schoolboy error out. I've just checked mine and noted the park actuator is at the top. I'll record a part two to correct my errors.
@@GoGreenAutos, It would be great if you could also clean out with solvent the magnet's pocket in the housing and take some close-up shots of the interior to see if there are any abrasion marks from the magnet rubbing on it. Another gearbox feature that's interesting is at the motor end of the input shaft. If you remove the shaft there is a brass ring near the bearing which turns with the shaft and provides a ground to the housing to drain off small stray voltages that enter from the motor. You could check with a ohmmeter that the ring is indeed grounded.
The position of the magnet inside the reduction box may be to prevent the clogging of the of the entry/exit valves you mention at the bottom of the gear box since you mention later on in the video that other manufacturers that have magnets near those valves can detect metal debris near those inlets/outlets?
I don't think that is the reason. If there's debris in the oil, you want it out of the gearbox, not stuck inside. But then that debris isn't large enough to foul the exit hole. All other manufacturers put their magnets in the drain plug. I wonder why Hyundai has decided on this method??
wow 100k miles! that is incredible Korean workmanship & design! bet the env200 gearbox isnt that good looking after 100k!
The diffs can break up on the ENV200 and Leafs.
I wonder if your parking brake lever is actually in the engaged position and the domed pin we can see retracts to disengage?
Yes you're probably correct. Its most likely to have been in park when it was removed from the donor vehicle.
Exactly correct. When out of park pin retracts and spring moves the arm away from the pawl!
Thanks! Interesting! So oil in gearbox oil doesn't need topping up generally? It's only done during a service? How often (Zoe 22 driver here)
Most manufacturers say their gearboxes are "sealed for life". There's no top-ups required, unless a bearing seal or the gasket between the two halves have failed, which is extremely rare (probably not yet happened).
But its advisable to change the oil occasionally. I'd say about every 50,000 miles or so. But this is not part of the service schedule on EVs. I've got videos on the channel on how to do this and the Zoe video is coming in a few months time.
Mine had 73k km on it and two bearings on the middle shaft went bust. The one you have there is extremely dirty inside compared to mine, and it'd say it looks like your bearings in the middle show sign of wear on the outside race. I wouldn't put it together again without putting in new bearings. I bet the oil was pitch black when you took it out. Mine had new, a few times which is probably why its very clean inside. The Kia version has a square magnet, so it doesnt rotate and drop off debris in the oil flow, hence they have substantially fewer failures. I unfortunately had to buy a new box, because I didn't know if it could be repaired. I know it can now, so I'll have a spare soon.
The oil was very clean actually.
That is curious. Yours look very dark on the inside walls and mine is silvery, like the aluminum you show on the motor spline side.
Hello! Thanks! for a good Video. In the Gearbox you show in the Video, there appears to be Gearbox Oil in it. Is that so? I asked the Volvo dealer, who sells the Renault Zoe. If there is Oil in Renault Zoe's Gearbox. And they said that there is no gearbox in the Renault Zoe. It's some electrical thing that does the job. Thanks! From Tommy Bertilsson from Sweden
There is oil in every EV gearbox. You can't have metal on metal without some lubrication! I will be doing a video showing how to change the oil in a Zoe gearbox in a month or two's time.
If it gets noisy and you want to sell can you add sawdust like you would on a normal gearbox? 😅
Theoretically they should last a long time but Hyundai/Kia have had lots of issues with the reduction gearboxes and motors in the Kona and Niro, I’ve even seen a few reports of clicking sounds with the Ioniq as well but my theory is that it affects the Niro and Kona more because the additional power=additional stress on the powertrain. They’ve moved to a very different drive unit for the redesigned Kona and Niro which lowered torque substantially, likely to try and solve the problems the current/previous designs had.
Yes my brother has a Kona EV and it was making a clicking sound and it had both the motor and reduction gearbox replaced under warranty.
@@GoGreenAutos Thanks for video. It is really helpfull. Do you think that clicking sound comes from bearings or something else ? My kona started to make that noise when regening so without warranty I need to learn which action should I take ?(change bearings etc )
@@NewGuy3211 Is your Kona out of the 5 year warranty then? I'm not sure what is causing the clicking noise. Its either the reduction gearbox (which could be the bearings or differential) or the motor bearings. I have my suspicions that its the differential in the gearbox as this is the weak point and can break due to the torque of the motor. Part two of this video is coming soon which briefly talks about this.
@@GoGreenAutos I imported from germany, so there is no service for me or warranty in Turkey. I have to find solution by myself. I am waiting your second video then.
That's because the bearings are made in China.
It cannot withstand the torque of the motor and the bearing fails, producing noise.
Hello sir, I have a question please: What are the steps to disassemble this gear box? Should I remove the HV battery and remove the electrical circuit breaker?
No need to remove the HV battery, but you should always correctly isolate the HV before doing any work on the powertrain.
Funny that you don't mention the missing end cap of the input shaft. You are literally pointing it at 8:21. At same second you can see the groove inside the input shaft that the cap should be sitting on. My gearbox had that loose as well. Could be one reason for dirty oil as the cap rubs against casing.
No, only since the gearbox has been dissembled. It was all good and in place when first opened.
I think the reason for having a parking pawl is same reason braking systems work much the same and use a corrosive fluid that needs replacing every few years. It's a matter of what a manufacturer is willing to defend in a courtroom if they are sued. H/K seem fairly conservative in this regard while Tesla seem to thrive on breaking the rules. In the end I want my car to be safe and having a parking pawl is a very reliable way of holding a car. On the flat I don't bother with the EPB as there's just no need for it.
Would the nylon gear be the speedo drive?
That was my first thought as it looks like the nylon worm gear that used to drive the speedo, but these days it would surely be electronic and also there is no access point on the gearbox case.
What is the reduction ratio?
I was wondering the same thing.
I had no idea, but a Google search says "7.412:1 gear ratio"
So that's why when you put it in P and parking brake does not initiate automatically car can still move few cm
I did wonder why they chose to put the parking brake on the motor shaft and so have Slack in the gearbox allowing some movement. Maybe it's to make the actuator accessible in the engine bay?
why does a electric vehicle need a gearbox ? isnt the motor controlled by battery current , so it will reach intended speeds as required ? i thought there was no gears in electric cars
It looks like that nylon gear would have been part of a speedo drive perhaps in another application.
I don't know what other application a reduction gearbox like this would be used for, as it has to be mated to the same electric motor.
@@GoGreenAutos the nylon gear is on the differential unit which may be a generic item.
@@kevinmills5293 I see what you mean
Renault Zoe seems to be having problems with broken gearboxes. Could it be because people don't stop properly when changing gears?
Could be a contributing factor. Putting strain in the park pawl is, which I've got a video coming up soon on this subject.
On the Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh, you could jump between Drive and Reverse while the vehicle was still moving slowly, which was useful when parking. But on the later 38kWh Ioniq, they've changed it so you have to be stopped before you can change the gear, which can be quite annoying when parking.
Early Zoes have problems with bearing failure. It’s quite feasible to replace the bearings. However a main dealership will just quote for a new gearbox 😬
@@hughmarcus1 Yes, that's quite normal for main dealers as the bearings are not a separate OEM supplied part. The same goes for all manufacturers on most components. The electric motor is one part and so is the gearbox. You have to go to an independent garage to get that level of repair, but its still not easy as the bearings are not identified and therefore not available off the shelf without first taking them out of the gearbox or motor and measuring them first.
My MG ZS makes a quiet but distinct noise when I hold it at zero power when moving (ie. Just enough throttle to counter regen). I wonder if it is one of the gears in the reduction "floating" as it is neither transferring or removing power.
Has anyone else seen this? Should I worry?
If it's high-pitched, it might just be the inverter.
@@MartinPedersenTM more of a mid-ranged mechanical sound
That magnet is running loose and shedding chunks of tiny particles in the oil. Which turns oil dark black! I would get rid of it to save the bearings!
Normal gearboxes never needed magnets and filters. Why ev "gearboxes" need them?
Hi very simple, why not show all the complex electrics in an ev. Like the high power inverter bet thats not simple.
Because the video is about a reduction gearbox. Yes, EVs have an inverter module and a on-board charger module which is full of electronics and I'll do a video about those one day when I have examples I can take apart.
So you had to buy a whole new gearbox for 1 part. That's ridiculous. How much was the gearbox?
Not for this gearbox in this video. It was for a Peugeot/Citroen reduction gearbox. See video here ruclips.net/video/7c0g-CmFHe0/видео.htmlsi=fnIeWWvORvwQZN9f
This is a differential. not a gearbox
Its a single speed reduction gearbox with a differential.
@@GoGreenAutos All automotive differentials are 1:1, if they were anything else the car would want to go round in circles. But they all have a final drive reduction gear, either a bevel gear for RWD or a spur gear on FWD. The final drive gear is attached to the “pumpkin” by bolts and can be replaced.
Overall, that does show you that the current price of EVs is a joke considering that there’s basically not much in them, apart from the wiring and the battery. Manufacturers are just trying to recuperate the money lost in sale of spare parts 😂
Just down to development costs and lower volumes. But the new prices of EVs are getting better....well not lower, but not increasing like ICE vehicles are, so getting nearer to price parity.