I’m glad to know that I’m not crazy. When I first saw that red wood on the inside, I thought just the one batch was bad wood. When I got more afterwards, I realized what they had done. Idk what their logic was behind it. Their pencils suck now and the wood honestly looks sickly compared to the crisp and clean looking wood that proceeded it.
Pocket, there isn't much of anything made with the quality used from years ago...Being born in the early 60's, I know your pain and disappointment from losing the quality we once had.
As someone on the autism spectrum, I deal with this way too often. -Find a product I really really like -Product changes -Go through endless rage and disappointment
That's not a spectrum-only problem. It's a problem for anyone who enjoys consistency and/or dependability. Change is only good when it can be justified. Change for its own sake is a pure loss of productivity.
@@pocket83squared oh for sure, unexpected change just rattles us quite a bit (well, as a generalization). The guys I know diagnosed with it, and myself, seem to take it harder than the normal people in our lives. Mostly said it as a "I entirely sympathize because I know the feeling all too damn well." As a somewhat related note; I watched something once where a Japanese dude said something along the lines of "Growing older isn't about gaining maturity or knowledge, it's learning to cope with the disappointment of things you liked disappearing" (in the sense of material things). Resonated, since even only being in my mid 30s, I've watched countless things I loved turn to absolute trash over the years.
@@Telos954x One of the central struggles of my life has been to continue doing what it is that I want to do, yet the world seems determined to keep me from my course. It's been one part comedy and one part tragedy, because I count myself among the luckiest of all people who have ever lived. But the distraction is nevertheless a huge blow to productivity. The "learning to cope with the disappointment of things you liked disappearing" sentiment resonates with me, too. In a way that I can't easily express here. Change, unfortunately, is the only constant; as such, loss, and thus, suffering, become certain. I hope you and I can both learn to accept it gracefully. As for _my_ somewhat related note to you, don't do that. There's nothing about you to disqualify you from "normal." Stay out of the categories. The "spectrum" paradigm does us no good. Why allow yourself to be quantified, bottled? Sorry, it's not my business. Just think of it as a rhetorical question from somebody who has managed to avoid being officially bottled.
Autistic fellow here. I can strongly relate. The part about the world being determined to keep me from doing my stuff has happened so many times it got me into a really bad burnout and depression. I'm barely managing to recover now. However, it made me realize this society is not for me or other people like me. I'm part of a couple of communities of neurodivergent people and it seems to be something that impacts us all in some way. Over the years (I'm 40) I've come to the conclusion I don't want to play this stupid game anymore and I am trying to create a community centered around a completely different lifestyle. Standard society has failed me/us. I want to care for my projects, learn, catalogue, preserve, restore and repair the things I like. I want a place where I can live like that, doing what I'm best at.
@@pocket83squared To the note about autism and labels. I only find it helpful in that it's helped me find other people like myself and resources to help me more easily deal with the downsides of the 'problem' that escaped me much of my life. Until my mid 20s no one ever really told me, from a clinical perspective, why I operated the way I did. Prior to that it was all "oh you just have an attention issue" or "you're just making excuses/being lazy/being antisocial" and similar things. A psych I was seeing for unrelated issues asked me if I had been tested, and when I said no, he did a cursory evaluation and said it's very likely I am on the spectrum, and then presented me with some resources that have helped me with areas I had some trouble with.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT MY FAVORITE PENCILS!! Seriously, wtf. I'm still getting over when Hostess went out of business for a while and came back. The Twinkie is still not the same...
Hey Pocket! Ever get into drafting pencils? I switched to using a 0.9mm one awhile back and it's treated me quite well. I have friends that prefer the 2mm graphite holder ones, those require mini sharpeners though. Mine is a Draft/Matic (mid grade) but i have also had plenty of luck with the even cheaper ones. I find 0.9mm to be a good size for most of this stuff, i sometimes wish it was a hair finer for super precise measuring, but the added durability that comes from the size of the graphite is great.
This happens across the board. Having worked in CPG food it’s disgustingly horrible how laser focused companies are on cutting costs no matter what. Lower quality ingredients, reformulations to work with cheaper alternatives, etc. Modern crony capitalism is so short sighted I’m surprised anyone in a c-suite position can even see their dicks.
Thanks for your honesty! I like the original models as well! Unfortunately, it may be a bit harder to find the good ones now. But if you're looking for pencils that write smooth and have darker lead, I highly recommend the California Cedar, USA gold brand pencils. I tested one of them against a ticondoroga pencil (that was actually pretty decent) and saw that it was slightly darker than the ticonderoga lead. I got some the other day at Target for $2.69. Hopefully the price is the same across all Targets. Hope this helps!
It is a good pencil, but it may have been discontinued. If that's the case, maybe you found some leftover stock. I'll check the local Target to see. Thanks.
I found the new manufacturer doing a quick search - even Amazon (I never buy from Amazon if I can help it) has them...but they're pretty spendy. @@pocket83squared
I've watched my fair share of pencil videos, but actually stumbled upon your channel because of Wario's Woods. I could barely get past Katsini on hard mode and wanted to see some gameplay, and then I noticed this video afterwards. The cedar smell of a freshly sharpened Ticonderoga pencil was what separated it from all the mass market pencils, and at some point, I noticed they stopped smelling like much of anything. They worked well enough, though as I started getting back into learning to draw, I became more interested in pencils. The thing that killed Ticonderoga for me was when I got these red pencils. The wood in them was the hardest I'd ever seen in a pencil, they were difficult to sharpen, felt like they were going to dull the blade in no time, the tip would constantly break off, and I ended up throwing them all in the bin. I got some Blackwing pencils as a gift, and they have that cedar smell like Ticonderoga used to have. They're truly lovely, though perhaps a bit extravagant for your purposes. I've heard good things about Mitsubishi and Tombow, though I've not had the chance to try them yet.
Thanks for stopping in. So far, the best thing I've found since is the BOSTCH. It's Cedar, and overall a top-quality, inexpensive replacement. My one tiny complaint is that the eraser doesn't seem as effective, but that's nothing that a good Artgum can't fix. Note that (if you're mostly drawing) you may or may not like that it's slightly darker than the Ticonderoga.
I bought a pack of Ticonderoga pencils from the big blue lumber store a few months ago and they are junk I didn't realize that they were originally cedar but you're right about the quality. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I was about to get a new box of these, but I guess I'll have to find a substitute now. I still have a few left from the old box.
I'm fed up of companies cheaping out by pretending their changes are for the good of the environment. It's slimy. Like you said -- I would rather just pay more money for a better product. Although, recently I came across Ryman's store brand pencils, and they are surprisingly good! They were £2.99 and they are made with cedarwood and write wonderfully. They contain HB grade graphite, but in my opinion, it feels a little softer than that, which is nice.
I put a product request in for a smaller version of something the already produce in addition with the request not to discontinue the existent product and unfortunately I received a very rude , aloof e- mail back that the the don't consider customer requests in their product devevelopment. That is so unlike the excellent customer service I always received from Faber Castell and Staedtler.
So far, the closest thing to something I'll recommend to you is: Bostitch Office Premium #2 Pencils, American Cedar Wood ...They're in stock (from the big A) at around four for a dollar. Totally respectable quality. They sharpen nicely, and they are definitely Cedar. I'm still testing them, so it'll take awhile for me to form a solid opinion, but the brand is really promising.
Never used a Ticonderoga so can't compare, but Musgrave 'Greenbelt' is a nice pencil, is cedar, and passed your drop test standard on the one I have at my desk.
As soon as the Ticondergogas were introduced into Wal-Mart is when I knew the quality would go downhill, as Walmart doesn't care about quality of their products, but with how cheap they can source the prodct for.
Never heard of this company, but I use Staedtler pencils and they're great, I've never been dissatisfied. No-name generic pencils are much less pleasant.
Just have to get Staedtler Made in Germany .... They make some in different countries, but those from Germany are just better. Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph (blue.... but watch out. Staedtler have some other blue... ones. - I have a back of 6, but not used yet, I think they maybe are not quit the same).
pocket. I can suggest trying the BOSTITCH PREMIUM ones .... last ones i bought were cedar.{perhaps a year a go] for 24 pencil pack.. as you said you can smell it....9-10 us dollars here in mexico... but i think in the US might be cheaper. hope it helps
Will check them out. Thanks ;) EDIT: ordered some! They're still available, and claim to be Cedar. Cost less than 25¢ per pencil. I'll let you know how it goes. EDIT no.2 [pun]: BOSTITCH has become my new go-to pencil; it's reliable, Cedar, inexpensive, and (most importantly) available. After almost a month now, I can safely report that it's a top-quality alternative to the old Ticonderoga. Every other pencil I tried fell short.
@@pocket83squared glad to hear(well actually read) that... Here in Mexico is kind of difficult to get and we have to pay import fees, which makes the a bit expensive ... However still worth te extra if (we me you) are q bit picky with pencils... I learned about this pencils while working in Canada years a go.....Thanks for sharing your experience... I'm glad to have done the suggestion.. cheers
I can't believe I actually have a recommendation. Pocket, have you tried a black warrior pencil? Not sure who makes them, but they were always my favorite. And they held up well when we used to pencil fight in middle school in the early 90s. For those who don't know what pencil fighting is, it's not as violent as it sounds.. lol
Black Warrior quality has gone downhill over the years. I'm looking at 3 Black Warriors, the older one is labeled with Berol Black Warrior 372 with clean deep stampings (best). The next one is labeled USA Mirado Black Warrior with ok stamping. The last one's markings are Mirado Black Warrior without the USA and if I remember correctly they were made in Mexico. The labeling is poor quality and blurry, the eraser is not the best and the metal that holds it is loose. If anyone chooses to buy them thinking the quality is still good please beware. I haven't purchased any new ones in the last few years.
@@JacksonWalter735 Both sharpen, retain a point, and wear just as well. Both resist fracture and drop-breaking about the same. The 'feel' when writing is similar with both. They smell the same. The Bostitch makes a darker line, which I've come to prefer, but the old Ticonderoga erases much cleaner. All in all, when I put aside personal nostalgic preference, they're totally comparable pencils.
i use 2 products and love both ... perhaps not your ballpark ;) for general woodwork and stuff in the house : Pica - Dry Pencil (green, made in germany) for metalwork and ultrafine woodwork : DelGuard 0.5 by ZEBRA (has a dampened graphite, made in Japan) hope that helps.
mechanical pencils tend to break when marking wood, unless youre using something extra beefy like a lead holder. pocket claims he can get 1/64" accuracy with his pencils or about 0.4mm which is finer than the 0.5mm and twice as fine as the 0.7mm and 0.9mm leads, all of which in my experience will break as soon as they hit even slightly rough wood in my experience
@@DinnerForkTongue i agree with you, but you will still need to sharpen your lead if you want to draw a 0.4mm line. i think pocket explained his thoughts on leadholders either in the video or somewhere in the comments.
What is the advantage of an old school pencil over a mechanical pencil? While we're on the subject, what ever became of those big honkin Husky pencils they used to give us in kindergarten? They were painted metallic red, blue or green and had a real nice quality to them.
Too numerous to list. Probably the no.1 reason would be a pencil's disposability factor; it's nice to have one sitting around on every flat surface. Using a mechanical pencil is like having another phone, pair of glasses, or set of keys to keep track of.
For sketching I like wood pencils better than mechanical. Price wise, Bic does make cheapo mechanical pencils you could drop all over the place like stray bird turds.
Ticonderoga was a staple of my childhood and school work. Other than Bic i cant name another brand that made writing instruments off the top of my head. And i recall their pencils always being the nicest. As students, we'd get our hands on those really pretty ones or silly ones and the quality of a simple tool like a pencil really showed how much worse it can be. Ticonderoga had this quality that I could always recognize and feel. I cant believe they dared changing their formula, that's strange. I havent really needed a pencil myself for a while, so im not that concerned, but it's still disappointing to see them drop quality. I'd be curious in finding what pencil you find best to replace it. Seems like a good video idea
I'm partial to the USA Gold pencils, especially the ones that are clear coated instead of painted. They really cant hide anything with no paint. Can get big boxes of em on slamazon or most stores carry at least the yellow ones. Also since you may be looking to stretch your supply of good pencils, I highly reccomend looking for a pencil extender if you don't have one already, doesnt seem like a big thing until you start getting excited to use it.
My go-to pencils are Mitsubishi 9850's. They're what I wished wooden pencils were like growing up without being so "nice" that I'd hate to use or lose them. The Hi-Uni line is better, but I tend to keep those for more deliberate activities
Maybe try the *Faber-Castell Grip 2001* or *Faber-Castell 9000* graphite pencil, the Grip 2001 is a good pencil that offers a nice triangular grip with little black dots, on the other hand the 9000 offers a hexagonal grip same as the ticonderoga, but without the eraser. In the end both are good pencils, bit the Grip 2001 has a more premium feel to me and is also i think more expensive then the ticoderoga, if you ask about wood, the Grip 2001 is made from *California Cedar* and the 9000 is made of *California incense cedar* Edit: i also use the *Staedtler Norica 132 46* and the *Herlitz Skizo* pencil and they are both hexagonal pencils and feel great and also all if them are HB pencils, but the Grip 2001 is also available in H, 2H, 3H, 4H, 5H, F, B, 2B, 3B, 4B, 5B and 6B options
You can smell it (Ceder smells good) and you can see it when sharpening. Wiht Cecer you can have a long string of sharpened wood. Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph, Faber-Castell 9000
I recommend buying pens and pencils meant for the Chinese market. their written language is extremely complex so they don't tend to put up with garbage stationary.
Very true. Avoid Chinese brands made to appeal to Westerners, go for the Chinese that doesn't so much as think of hiding its nationality. Those are the best brands for pretty much ANY product.
Surprised and gratified to meet another person who would rather pay a higher price. My biggest gripe in this genre is shrinkflation in groceries (I AM a fatass foodie, after all). I get it corporations, your employees are demanding unreasonable shit like benefits and COL increases, and they want a day off once in a while, and your investors want infinite growth with no risk ever. But the orphan crushing machine that is capitalism must be fed! What’s a poor sniveling corporation to do?! Raise the price. Be honest, how much would it actually take? An extra $.0025 per pencil? Just don’t fucking lie!
"Snake like business practices" are the norm today. As consumers, we haven't done a good enough job showing companies that their products are sh*t. If it's sh*t, don't keep buying it. This game isn't rocket science.
This game is more complicated than rocket science! That's just simple Newtonian physics; we're talking about not just marketing, but also economics here, which is beyond the grasp of any human being! We can argue all day long about what causes our products to become overpriced junk, but the fact is that there isn't just one simple answer. Much of what we observe end up being misleadingly loose correlations mixed-in to a complex stew of semi-causative variables, with every ingredient to a unique degree. Today's rational actor is often put into a situation in which there _is_ no available consumer choice. As such, it ends up being no help to sit on your laurels waiting for better market options to become available. They aren't coming unless we do something.
I found some information about the USA Gold pencil from their listing on the jungle site - U.S.A. Gold is truly the gold standard in #2 HB pencils. With a 55 year history, these real wood pencils are domestically produced in Lewisburg, Tennessee out of sustained yield, California incense cedar wood making them premium, superior-quality pencils. People often wonder - how is America’s pencil made? Well, we are here to provide all the knitty-gritty details behind the making of USA Gold pencils. We start with high-quality, incense cedar wood harvested right here in the USA. Why cedar you ask? Cedar is widely recognized as the finest wood species available for manufacturing pencils. Its reddish-brown color, fine grain and low resin content allow us to manufacture pencils with a smooth surface that sharpen easily and evenly. You will find that most artist-quality colored and graphite pencils are made from Incense Cedar. Did we mention that the manufacturing magic happens at our factory right here in Lewisburg, Tennessee? Over the last 50+ years, we have earned the reputation of being the largest and finest pencil manufacturer in the USA and we are mighty proud of it!
you can get some really nice pencils in the art store, but i haven’t seen any marked as “cedar”. or, try mechanical pencils if you want a consistently thin line?
They look the same. They just don't smell or feel the same. It's pretty silly that some of you expect me to fund the time & effort it would take to produce a comparative experiment video. What channel do you think this is? Do you see my numbers?
Someone implied the reason you liked these was because you could get 1/64" accuracy. Out of curiosity, is there a reason you don't use a marking knife when you want super accurate marks? It is disappointing, though. I knew they had started making some cheaper lines, but they were (one of?) the last inexpensive but good pencils. I use more expensive softer core pencils for some things and mechanical for others, but they were my go-to "general/rough use" option -- also for 20+ years.
Sure, I use a knife to mark things. It all depends upon the media, the tolerance required, and my patience in the moment. If you're looking for an inexpensive replacement, BOSTITCH is the best one I've found so far. Hopefully they last.
I know this isn't what you asked for but I would suggest a draughtsman's mechanical pencil (with like a 2mm lead) and a rotary lead pointer. The point probably won't survive the drop test but the pencil will definitely and you can just sharpen/swap the lead out. Plus with a lead pointer you can have your lead exactly as sharp as you want with minimal effort. You can also choose whatever type of leads you want in there to suite your needs.
Nice to know. Just commenting for the algorithm (they say every kind of engagement helps). Have you considered making some "shorts" here and there maybe it would lead/help your channel reach more people and get more subscribers (they have done wonders for some channels in terms of reaching a wider audience and growing their channel much faster), and I know that within you're videos you have a lot of good amount of hacks, suggestions, advice etc. on a very wide range of topics that you could just turn/edit into "shorts". Anyway nice to see you being more active on RUclips lately.
You asked. Because I have nothing to prove, and I don't owe you a well-designed experiment. It's bad enough that I fund these stupid videos with my time. Have I ever given you a single reason to regard my opinion as questionable? I'm probably the last honest uploader on this good-forsaken pile of visual filth. This video was brought to you by me, and that's it.
@@flatbreadsub Yes. This is called _irony,_ because with the amount of time you've spent asking and replying, you could have just watched it lmao. And now that you're still wondering why a raven is like a writing desk, you'll end up watching it anyhow. Kids!
@@flatbreadsub Okay, then: watch the video, and then, if you have any questions, I'll answer them! Bonus points if you can do it without emojis or lols. Max XP if you can add punctuation.
Sad. I used to love my Ticonderogas, the black ones especially. Would hoard them practically. Pretty sure I left a box in my closet with some othet effects, will have to save them for special occasions. Even as a young child I remember noticing how much better the Ticonderogas were than everything else.
@@pocket83squared yes, but my chosen source was Ticonderoga, which is now a non option. I now have no idea what brand pencils to buy, or who is making pencils up to the quality of old Ticonderoga. I do agree that I would pay a lot more for real Ticonderoga pencils if they had stayed high quality.
Hey Pocket. Been watching your videos for about 10 years and finally have a reason to leave a comment. If you're looking for a new pencil, I highly recommend the Mitsubishi 9850. They're ~$8.00 for a dozen or so and are very much still cedar! Lead quality is excellent as well
No, they aren't. They have a much narrower application, a higher expense, and they're less trustworthy. Further, they are far more mechanically complex, which means that they conflict with principle of parsimony. And if we're going to skip the fact that they can't be pressed against with any reasonably man-handed force, and just pretend as though they'll always dispense the correct length of graphite, well, then we're assuming a high-end mechanical, and I don't have the kind of loot it takes to spread two dozen of those around my shop. They're only "superior" for work environments in which one can neither swear nor spit, and even there they're a rationalized-for-their-portability compromise. The Cedar-wood pencil is an optimized design. Any changes to it are a detraction.
@@thanatos454 Do you have a shop? Ever marked a piece of actual wood? You don't sound smart enough to work in design or engineering, so I'm guessing all that certainty isn't coming from experience. An experienced craftsman probably wouldn't sarcastically scoff at my opinion. See if you can make an argument. Brevity is not the _entirety_ of wit.
My complaint is that the quality of the lead is so much worse. The black outside colored pencils that I loved so much have lead that is so much lighter and not the nice bold black lead they used to have.
Fool! Rube! Imbecile! Stone him! Seriously, though. They'd be nice if I didn't use such heavy writing pressure. Additionally, mechanicals are inferior in terms of cross-media writing. Plywood, for example. But it's the buy-in that I really don't like. Reduced numbers. And the loss of tactile pleasure; the experience of making a one-to-one force scratch-on graphite deposition has a sort of candlelight-like delightfulness to it. It's real or something. Whatever. Shut up, you're wrong.
Depressing but true. My wife is involved in a charity that gets school supplies to elementary schools (which for some reason no longer supply things like pencils to their students). The charity used to require Ticonderoga pencils because you could actually sharpen them. They dropped the requirement last year, because there was no longer a difference.
@@pocket83squared Because it's a pencil. Sure some people still use a pencil in a shop to mark things. I have a few pencils in my shop, but when I need to mark something, I reach to my mechanical pencil. I think your video was ment as a joke because you put what I thought was too much emotion, too much effort into a pencil. It's a pencil. Their are literally 100s of other options. Including many that are better than a pencil. That's why I thought your video was ment a a joke. ;)
@@raulc. The pencil is probably the most-used tool that I have. As such, I want it to be the best, and the least annoying, that it can possibly be. Precision work requires quality instrumentation. Have you ever _used_ a Cedar pencil? Not used as in one time on a test; but used as in used them in the shop until you actually learn how to sharpen it in a way that will outperform a mechanical. No, it was not a joke: there is nothing yet invented that's "better than a pencil." Beware the suasion of marketing.
@@pocket83squared down to your question, I don't know if I have ever used a Cedar pencil. As much effort as you put into that video and how you responded to my comments, I am now very curious. I'm going to see if I can find a Cedar pencil.
@@raulc. If you just use it to take notes, you may not notice the difference other than ease of sharpening. If you sketch, you will definitely notice a difference in pencil quality.
It’s not a nosedive, there are two types of pencil, the Mexico Ones (Good) and the China Ones (Bad) and they likely just changed what batches go to which stores. You’ll notice the China ones are Glossy with Bad Erasers.
The Mexican-made pencils are not Cedar. Perhaps they're using Basswood or something now? Nevertheless, they are _still_ lesser quality when compared with the original. Even the graphite is misaligned!
"Specious at best" - Ticonderoga really wasted their product placement money on this video! Not parody, but I still got a chuckle out of it. As someone alluded to, what about a drafting pencil, AKA (?) lead holder.
Faber Castell 9000, the artists choice! And Staedtler Noris the black and yellow striped ones or the Staedtler Mars blue casing ones. Both are great alternatives. Even the Stabilo school pencils.
I could not believe the last package of these I bought about a year, year and a half ago. The wood sucks, sharpening them no matter how carefully always results in an inferior point, and the leads are terrible. So soft it's like writing with mush and the point is just rolling over like playdoh after even a short sentence, but then you look on the page and it is lighter shading than even the hardest pencils, so nowhere near as legible as anyone would want for a writing pencil. In other words neither of the advantages of hard OR soft leads, but with somehow BOTH of the disadvantages! Constantly needing sharpening to try and get some semblance of a line on the page, but not able to obtain a good point, causing massive waste. The mark they left on the page could be smudged off easily without an eraser. The appeal of this brand in the past was not that it was actually the world's best pencil, but one of the world's most consistent and perfectly average pencils especially for the price. I think back to my school days and I can't remember using a pencil that was this bad, not even from the cheap, second-rate off brands.
The price is unrealistic. At over two bucks a pop, I won't even test-use them. A top-quality pencil is a simple manufacture requiring only basic, widely available materials; there's no possible explanation for that high price other than marketing and hype.
@@pocket83squared Understandable, but WSJ did a video about them. The reason they are expensive is because they are a specialty product made in much smaller volumes than regular pencils. It's a reproduction of the original, which was already a bit of a specialty pencil liked by animators. The oddly shaped eraser and ferrule required brand new machines because the old ones stopped working, which is why the original was discontinued. To that same point, only #2/HB pencils are cheap, because they are widely used. Softer and harder pencils are more niche and cost more, though $2 is quite high. I buy softer Japanese pencils and still only pay about $1. That said, they are owned by California Cedar Products, which make cheaper models. Two such are Golden Bear and ForestChoice, which run about $5 per dozen.
I guess musgrave is the best now... at least musgrave is USA made too. They've been making them in the same place for over 100 years and they're the only place to get high quality printed pencils, let alone made in america.
I was very disappointed with the new Ticonderogas. Found these pencils on Amazon that were being promoted and sound promising: Bostitch premium AMERICAN cedar pencils. Musgrave pencils have been excellent, especially the harvest professional pencil.
The Musgrave is too outlandishly expensive, but I will vouch for the Bostitch, which is an excellent cedar pencil (for now). I've been using them for around a year, and they make a great replacement. Note that the lead is darker than the old Ticonderoga, and also the eraser doesn't work as well. But it's tough, affordable, precise, and well-made. I am not sponsored to say that.
"No. I am not going to run a control test so that you can see how junky the new pencils are. You can find out for yourself if you buy them." Oh... Ok. 🤨
Always sad when a product you have been happy with for years suddenly takes a major nosedive in quality.
Woke. Just check out their website.
I’m glad to know that I’m not crazy. When I first saw that red wood on the inside, I thought just the one batch was bad wood. When I got more afterwards, I realized what they had done. Idk what their logic was behind it. Their pencils suck now and the wood honestly looks sickly compared to the crisp and clean looking wood that proceeded it.
They moved production out of the country where cheaper woods are available. Eastern red cedar would have to be shipped from the North East US.
Pocket, there isn't much of anything made with the quality used from years ago...Being born in the early 60's, I know your pain and disappointment from losing the quality we once had.
As someone on the autism spectrum, I deal with this way too often.
-Find a product I really really like
-Product changes
-Go through endless rage and disappointment
That's not a spectrum-only problem. It's a problem for anyone who enjoys consistency and/or dependability. Change is only good when it can be justified. Change for its own sake is a pure loss of productivity.
@@pocket83squared oh for sure, unexpected change just rattles us quite a bit (well, as a generalization). The guys I know diagnosed with it, and myself, seem to take it harder than the normal people in our lives. Mostly said it as a "I entirely sympathize because I know the feeling all too damn well."
As a somewhat related note; I watched something once where a Japanese dude said something along the lines of "Growing older isn't about gaining maturity or knowledge, it's learning to cope with the disappointment of things you liked disappearing" (in the sense of material things). Resonated, since even only being in my mid 30s, I've watched countless things I loved turn to absolute trash over the years.
@@Telos954x One of the central struggles of my life has been to continue doing what it is that I want to do, yet the world seems determined to keep me from my course. It's been one part comedy and one part tragedy, because I count myself among the luckiest of all people who have ever lived. But the distraction is nevertheless a huge blow to productivity.
The "learning to cope with the disappointment of things you liked disappearing" sentiment resonates with me, too. In a way that I can't easily express here. Change, unfortunately, is the only constant; as such, loss, and thus, suffering, become certain. I hope you and I can both learn to accept it gracefully.
As for _my_ somewhat related note to you, don't do that. There's nothing about you to disqualify you from "normal." Stay out of the categories. The "spectrum" paradigm does us no good. Why allow yourself to be quantified, bottled? Sorry, it's not my business. Just think of it as a rhetorical question from somebody who has managed to avoid being officially bottled.
Autistic fellow here. I can strongly relate. The part about the world being determined to keep me from doing my stuff has happened so many times it got me into a really bad burnout and depression. I'm barely managing to recover now. However, it made me realize this society is not for me or other people like me. I'm part of a couple of communities of neurodivergent people and it seems to be something that impacts us all in some way. Over the years (I'm 40) I've come to the conclusion I don't want to play this stupid game anymore and I am trying to create a community centered around a completely different lifestyle. Standard society has failed me/us. I want to care for my projects, learn, catalogue, preserve, restore and repair the things I like. I want a place where I can live like that, doing what I'm best at.
@@pocket83squared To the note about autism and labels. I only find it helpful in that it's helped me find other people like myself and resources to help me more easily deal with the downsides of the 'problem' that escaped me much of my life. Until my mid 20s no one ever really told me, from a clinical perspective, why I operated the way I did. Prior to that it was all "oh you just have an attention issue" or "you're just making excuses/being lazy/being antisocial" and similar things. A psych I was seeing for unrelated issues asked me if I had been tested, and when I said no, he did a cursory evaluation and said it's very likely I am on the spectrum, and then presented me with some resources that have helped me with areas I had some trouble with.
If Pocket disappears, we'll know Big Pencil came for him. (Seriously, though, I can't stand a shitty pencil.)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT MY FAVORITE PENCILS!! Seriously, wtf. I'm still getting over when Hostess went out of business for a while and came back. The Twinkie is still not the same...
Hey Pocket! Ever get into drafting pencils? I switched to using a 0.9mm one awhile back and it's treated me quite well. I have friends that prefer the 2mm graphite holder ones, those require mini sharpeners though. Mine is a Draft/Matic (mid grade) but i have also had plenty of luck with the even cheaper ones.
I find 0.9mm to be a good size for most of this stuff, i sometimes wish it was a hair finer for super precise measuring, but the added durability that comes from the size of the graphite is great.
This happens across the board. Having worked in CPG food it’s disgustingly horrible how laser focused companies are on cutting costs no matter what. Lower quality ingredients, reformulations to work with cheaper alternatives, etc. Modern crony capitalism is so short sighted I’m surprised anyone in a c-suite position can even see their dicks.
Thanks for your honesty! I like the original models as well! Unfortunately, it may be a bit harder to find the good ones now. But if you're looking for pencils that write smooth and have darker lead, I highly recommend the California Cedar, USA gold brand pencils. I tested one of them against a ticondoroga pencil (that was actually pretty decent) and saw that it was slightly darker than the ticonderoga lead. I got some the other day at Target for $2.69. Hopefully the price is the same across all Targets. Hope this helps!
It is a good pencil, but it may have been discontinued. If that's the case, maybe you found some leftover stock. I'll check the local Target to see. Thanks.
Mitsubishi Hi-Uni pencils might be worth looking into
I had noticed recently with some of my own that the pink color was fake looking and the smell wasn't there
I never thought I'd hear the Rifleman's Creed adapted to a pencil sharpener. 😂
Musgrave has a large variety of pencils, my favorite is the Genuine Tennessee Red Cedar and the Harvest320. and they are made in America.
Time to lay in a supply of Blackwing 602's. I can smell the cedar without opening the box they come in.
I was going to say blackwing also except for his "not ridiculously expensive" caveat .
That pencil has been discontinued.
I found the new manufacturer doing a quick search - even Amazon (I never buy from Amazon if I can help it) has them...but they're pretty spendy. @@pocket83squared
They have others that are cedar. Pricey? Maybe. But worth it.@@pocket83squared
@@pocket83squared Nope. They’re back in business. You can purchase it in their website, or at Walmart and Amazon.
I'm glad that I bought a massive box of them several years ago, and have barely made a dent in it
I've watched my fair share of pencil videos, but actually stumbled upon your channel because of Wario's Woods. I could barely get past Katsini on hard mode and wanted to see some gameplay, and then I noticed this video afterwards.
The cedar smell of a freshly sharpened Ticonderoga pencil was what separated it from all the mass market pencils, and at some point, I noticed they stopped smelling like much of anything. They worked well enough, though as I started getting back into learning to draw, I became more interested in pencils.
The thing that killed Ticonderoga for me was when I got these red pencils. The wood in them was the hardest I'd ever seen in a pencil, they were difficult to sharpen, felt like they were going to dull the blade in no time, the tip would constantly break off, and I ended up throwing them all in the bin.
I got some Blackwing pencils as a gift, and they have that cedar smell like Ticonderoga used to have. They're truly lovely, though perhaps a bit extravagant for your purposes. I've heard good things about Mitsubishi and Tombow, though I've not had the chance to try them yet.
Thanks for stopping in. So far, the best thing I've found since is the BOSTCH. It's Cedar, and overall a top-quality, inexpensive replacement. My one tiny complaint is that the eraser doesn't seem as effective, but that's nothing that a good Artgum can't fix. Note that (if you're mostly drawing) you may or may not like that it's slightly darker than the Ticonderoga.
I bought a pack of Ticonderoga pencils from the big blue lumber store a few months ago and they are junk I didn't realize that they were originally cedar but you're right about the quality. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I was about to get a new box of these, but I guess I'll have to find a substitute now. I still have a few left from the old box.
Try Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph, Faber-Castell 9000 or Cretacolor
@@LazyStory Thanks
I like Staedtler. Made from cedar chips. I tried your drop test, more damage than you had. Say a 1/4 of the tip broke off.
I'm fed up of companies cheaping out by pretending their changes are for the good of the environment. It's slimy.
Like you said -- I would rather just pay more money for a better product. Although, recently I came across Ryman's store brand pencils, and they are surprisingly good! They were £2.99 and they are made with cedarwood and write wonderfully. They contain HB grade graphite, but in my opinion, it feels a little softer than that, which is nice.
I put a product request in for a smaller version of something the already produce in addition with the request not to discontinue the existent product and unfortunately I received a very rude , aloof e- mail back that the the don't consider customer requests in their product devevelopment.
That is so unlike the excellent customer service I always received from Faber Castell and Staedtler.
Readily available try the USA Titanium/ Gold or the General's Cedar Pointe.
I've used them for 27 years, since I was a little kid. This is so sad.
Any luck on finding a good replacement? I’m in the market for some new pencils now and remembered this
So far, the closest thing to something I'll recommend to you is:
Bostitch Office Premium #2 Pencils, American Cedar Wood
...They're in stock (from the big A) at around four for a dollar. Totally respectable quality. They sharpen nicely, and they are definitely Cedar. I'm still testing them, so it'll take awhile for me to form a solid opinion, but the brand is really promising.
Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph, Faber-Castell 9000, Cretacolor art pencil.
Never used a Ticonderoga so can't compare, but Musgrave 'Greenbelt' is a nice pencil, is cedar, and passed your drop test standard on the one I have at my desk.
As soon as the Ticondergogas were introduced into Wal-Mart is when I knew the quality would go downhill, as Walmart doesn't care about quality of their products, but with how cheap they can source the prodct for.
Adam Savage recently made a video on the paper mate mechanical pencil being changed. Thought of this video again
I literally just came from there.
Never heard of this company, but I use Staedtler pencils and they're great, I've never been dissatisfied. No-name generic pencils are much less pleasant.
Staedtler has been mentioned before. I'll look into those.
I looked into the Staedtler: none of them are still Cedar. At least not those for sale here (in PA).
Just have to get Staedtler Made in Germany .... They make some in different countries, but those from Germany are just better.
Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph (blue.... but watch out. Staedtler have some other blue... ones. - I have a back of 6, but not used yet, I think they maybe are not quit the same).
Musgrave has a TN Red Cedar pencil.
pocket. I can suggest trying the BOSTITCH PREMIUM ones .... last ones i bought were cedar.{perhaps a year a go] for 24 pencil pack.. as you said you can smell it....9-10 us dollars here in mexico... but i think in the US might be cheaper.
hope it helps
Will check them out. Thanks ;)
EDIT: ordered some! They're still available, and claim to be Cedar. Cost less than 25¢ per pencil. I'll let you know how it goes.
EDIT no.2 [pun]: BOSTITCH has become my new go-to pencil; it's reliable, Cedar, inexpensive, and (most importantly) available. After almost a month now, I can safely report that it's a top-quality alternative to the old Ticonderoga. Every other pencil I tried fell short.
@@pocket83squared glad to hear(well actually read) that... Here in Mexico is kind of difficult to get and we have to pay import fees, which makes the a bit expensive ... However still worth te extra if (we me you) are q bit picky with pencils... I learned about this pencils while working in Canada years a go.....Thanks for sharing your experience... I'm glad to have done the suggestion.. cheers
The sentiment in this video could be applied to almost any product these days. We live in a sad time. Everything is about the $$$
I can't believe I actually have a recommendation. Pocket, have you tried a black warrior pencil? Not sure who makes them, but they were always my favorite. And they held up well when we used to pencil fight in middle school in the early 90s.
For those who don't know what pencil fighting is, it's not as violent as it sounds.. lol
No, I have not tried it. Is it Cedar? They're five bucks a dozen, but I'll pay as long as it's Cedar.
Black warrior pencils are worth a try. I have used them and really like them
Nothing beats the black warrior
Black Warrior quality has gone downhill over the years. I'm looking at 3 Black Warriors, the older one is labeled with Berol Black Warrior 372 with clean deep stampings (best). The next one is labeled USA Mirado Black Warrior with ok stamping. The last one's markings are Mirado Black Warrior without the USA and if I remember correctly they were made in Mexico. The labeling is poor quality and blurry, the eraser is not the best and the metal that holds it is loose. If anyone chooses to buy them thinking the quality is still good please beware. I haven't purchased any new ones in the last few years.
What is your new pencil of choice???
So far, at around 27¢ apiece, Bostitch's American Cedar pencil is performing pretty well.
@@pocket83squared I haven't tried any of those yet. But they are now on my list of ones to try!
@@pocket83squared as i said your sharpner ages no matter the brand they wil get duller after x amount of pencils
@@pocket83squaredhow do they compare to the classic Ticonderoga?
@@JacksonWalter735 Both sharpen, retain a point, and wear just as well. Both resist fracture and drop-breaking about the same. The 'feel' when writing is similar with both. They smell the same. The Bostitch makes a darker line, which I've come to prefer, but the old Ticonderoga erases much cleaner. All in all, when I put aside personal nostalgic preference, they're totally comparable pencils.
i use 2 products and love both ... perhaps not your ballpark ;)
for general woodwork and stuff in the house : Pica - Dry Pencil (green, made in germany)
for metalwork and ultrafine woodwork : DelGuard 0.5 by ZEBRA (has a dampened graphite, made in Japan)
hope that helps.
What a shame, I used to like these. What would you recommend using instead, these days?
I clearly don't know enough about pencils. Why are these better than a mechanical pencil?
mechanical pencils tend to break when marking wood, unless youre using something extra beefy like a lead holder. pocket claims he can get 1/64" accuracy with his pencils or about 0.4mm which is finer than the 0.5mm and twice as fine as the 0.7mm and 0.9mm leads, all of which in my experience will break as soon as they hit even slightly rough wood in my experience
They're not. A leadholder is significantly better unless you're obsessed with sharpening.
@@DinnerForkTongue i agree with you, but you will still need to sharpen your lead if you want to draw a 0.4mm line. i think pocket explained his thoughts on leadholders either in the video or somewhere in the comments.
What is the advantage of an old school pencil over a mechanical pencil?
While we're on the subject, what ever became of those big honkin Husky pencils they used to give us in kindergarten? They were painted metallic red, blue or green and had a real nice quality to them.
Too numerous to list. Probably the no.1 reason would be a pencil's disposability factor; it's nice to have one sitting around on every flat surface. Using a mechanical pencil is like having another phone, pair of glasses, or set of keys to keep track of.
For sketching I like wood pencils better than mechanical. Price wise, Bic does make cheapo mechanical pencils you could drop all over the place like stray bird turds.
Ticonderoga was a staple of my childhood and school work. Other than Bic i cant name another brand that made writing instruments off the top of my head. And i recall their pencils always being the nicest. As students, we'd get our hands on those really pretty ones or silly ones and the quality of a simple tool like a pencil really showed how much worse it can be. Ticonderoga had this quality that I could always recognize and feel.
I cant believe they dared changing their formula, that's strange. I havent really needed a pencil myself for a while, so im not that concerned, but it's still disappointing to see them drop quality.
I'd be curious in finding what pencil you find best to replace it. Seems like a good video idea
I used to love the smell of sharpening real cedar pencils. Only Japanese pencils for me now.
I noticed that the pencil felt harder on my fingers when I am writing.
I'm partial to the USA Gold pencils, especially the ones that are clear coated instead of painted. They really cant hide anything with no paint. Can get big boxes of em on slamazon or most stores carry at least the yellow ones.
Also since you may be looking to stretch your supply of good pencils, I highly reccomend looking for a pencil extender if you don't have one already, doesnt seem like a big thing until you start getting excited to use it.
My go-to pencils are Mitsubishi 9850's. They're what I wished wooden pencils were like growing up without being so "nice" that I'd hate to use or lose them. The Hi-Uni line is better, but I tend to keep those for more deliberate activities
Maybe try the *Faber-Castell Grip 2001* or *Faber-Castell 9000* graphite pencil, the Grip 2001 is a good pencil that offers a nice triangular grip with little black dots, on the other hand the 9000 offers a hexagonal grip same as the ticonderoga, but without the eraser. In the end both are good pencils, bit the Grip 2001 has a more premium feel to me and is also i think more expensive then the ticoderoga, if you ask about wood, the Grip 2001 is made from *California Cedar* and the 9000 is made of *California incense cedar*
Edit: i also use the *Staedtler Norica 132 46* and the *Herlitz Skizo* pencil and they are both hexagonal pencils and feel great and also all if them are HB pencils, but the Grip 2001 is also available in H, 2H, 3H, 4H, 5H, F, B, 2B, 3B, 4B, 5B and 6B options
Wow never realized the difference was in the wood. I have an old box of Ticonderogas that I need to check.
You can smell it (Ceder smells good) and you can see it when sharpening. Wiht Cecer you can have a long string of sharpened wood.
Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph, Faber-Castell 9000
i wanna test this myself because would be surprised the wood isn't the only thing they adjusted for inflation
I've heard the Mirado Black Warrior is a great #2 pencil.
Black Warriors quality sucks now days.
I recommend buying pens and pencils meant for the Chinese market. their written language is extremely complex so they don't tend to put up with garbage stationary.
Very true. Avoid Chinese brands made to appeal to Westerners, go for the Chinese that doesn't so much as think of hiding its nationality. Those are the best brands for pretty much ANY product.
If they are serious about quality they are probably buying pencils imported from Japan.
Surprised and gratified to meet another person who would rather pay a higher price. My biggest gripe in this genre is shrinkflation in groceries (I AM a fatass foodie, after all). I get it corporations, your employees are demanding unreasonable shit like benefits and COL increases, and they want a day off once in a while, and your investors want infinite growth with no risk ever. But the orphan crushing machine that is capitalism must be fed! What’s a poor sniveling corporation to do?!
Raise the price. Be honest, how much would it actually take? An extra $.0025 per pencil? Just don’t fucking lie!
From anyone else and I'd think "Is this satire?" From pocket I recognize that it's a righteous rant.
"Snake like business practices" are the norm today. As consumers, we haven't done a good enough job showing companies that their products are sh*t. If it's sh*t, don't keep buying it. This game isn't rocket science.
This game is more complicated than rocket science! That's just simple Newtonian physics; we're talking about not just marketing, but also economics here, which is beyond the grasp of any human being!
We can argue all day long about what causes our products to become overpriced junk, but the fact is that there isn't just one simple answer. Much of what we observe end up being misleadingly loose correlations mixed-in to a complex stew of semi-causative variables, with every ingredient to a unique degree.
Today's rational actor is often put into a situation in which there _is_ no available consumer choice. As such, it ends up being no help to sit on your laurels waiting for better market options to become available. They aren't coming unless we do something.
alternative: mitsubishi brand from japan. they use cedar wood too
Ditto mitsubishi. The 9850 is great
I found some information about the USA Gold pencil from their listing on the jungle site - U.S.A. Gold is truly the gold standard in #2 HB pencils. With a 55 year history, these real wood pencils are domestically produced in Lewisburg, Tennessee out of sustained yield, California incense cedar wood making them premium, superior-quality pencils. People often wonder - how is America’s pencil made? Well, we are here to provide all the knitty-gritty details behind the making of USA Gold pencils. We start with high-quality, incense cedar wood harvested right here in the USA. Why cedar you ask? Cedar is widely recognized as the finest wood species available for manufacturing pencils. Its reddish-brown color, fine grain and low resin content allow us to manufacture pencils with a smooth surface that sharpen easily and evenly. You will find that most artist-quality colored and graphite pencils are made from Incense Cedar. Did we mention that the manufacturing magic happens at our factory right here in Lewisburg, Tennessee? Over the last 50+ years, we have earned the reputation of being the largest and finest pencil manufacturer in the USA and we are mighty proud of it!
you can get some really nice pencils in the art store, but i haven’t seen any marked as “cedar”. or, try mechanical pencils if you want a consistently thin line?
Its pretty silly you wont show the new ones.
They look the same. They just don't smell or feel the same. It's pretty silly that some of you expect me to fund the time & effort it would take to produce a comparative experiment video. What channel do you think this is? Do you see my numbers?
Did you lose your apostrophe key
@@Nuisance_Bear haha apparently 🤣
Someone implied the reason you liked these was because you could get 1/64" accuracy. Out of curiosity, is there a reason you don't use a marking knife when you want super accurate marks?
It is disappointing, though. I knew they had started making some cheaper lines, but they were (one of?) the last inexpensive but good pencils. I use more expensive softer core pencils for some things and mechanical for others, but they were my go-to "general/rough use" option -- also for 20+ years.
Sure, I use a knife to mark things. It all depends upon the media, the tolerance required, and my patience in the moment.
If you're looking for an inexpensive replacement, BOSTITCH is the best one I've found so far. Hopefully they last.
The fact that you are actually angry about it, says that it must be running very deep...
Now glad I have a few unopened boxes that are cedar wood.
Where did you buy the pencil?
I know this isn't what you asked for but I would suggest a draughtsman's mechanical pencil (with like a 2mm lead) and a rotary lead pointer. The point probably won't survive the drop test but the pencil will definitely and you can just sharpen/swap the lead out. Plus with a lead pointer you can have your lead exactly as sharp as you want with minimal effort. You can also choose whatever type of leads you want in there to suite your needs.
Staedtler mars Lumograph always were my fav.
Nice to know. Just commenting for the algorithm (they say every kind of engagement helps).
Have you considered making some "shorts" here and there maybe it would lead/help your channel reach more people and get more subscribers (they have done wonders for some channels in terms of reaching a wider audience and growing their channel much faster), and I know that within you're videos you have a lot of good amount of hacks, suggestions, advice etc. on a very wide range of topics that you could just turn/edit into "shorts".
Anyway nice to see you being more active on RUclips lately.
???? why wouldn't you do a test to show us ????
You asked.
Because I have nothing to prove, and I don't owe you a well-designed experiment. It's bad enough that I fund these stupid videos with my time. Have I ever given you a single reason to regard my opinion as questionable? I'm probably the last honest uploader on this good-forsaken pile of visual filth. This video was brought to you by me, and that's it.
@@pocket83squared"don't buy it but buy it if you want to see how bad they are"
@@brandonschmidt6990 Haha yeah i thought it was pretty silly :D
I didnt watch the video but why does the wood matter?
Oh, here: let me take the time to type it all out so that you don't have to take the time to watch the video.
@@pocket83squared in the amount of words you typed that you really could have just summarized it lmao
@@flatbreadsub Yes. This is called _irony,_ because with the amount of time you've spent asking and replying, you could have just watched it lmao.
And now that you're still wondering why a raven is like a writing desk, you'll end up watching it anyhow. Kids!
@@pocket83squared it took like 5 seconds for me to reply 😭, i mean youre right i know what im doing is dumb but i still want a summary lmao
@@flatbreadsub Okay, then: watch the video, and then, if you have any questions, I'll answer them!
Bonus points if you can do it without emojis or lols. Max XP if you can add punctuation.
Sad. I used to love my Ticonderogas, the black ones especially. Would hoard them practically. Pretty sure I left a box in my closet with some othet effects, will have to save them for special occasions. Even as a young child I remember noticing how much better the Ticonderogas were than everything else.
Hopefully Project Farm can lead some light into this now unsolved need.
My goodness. It should be self-evident. Haven't you ever used a Cedar pencil?
@@pocket83squared yes, but my chosen source was Ticonderoga, which is now a non option. I now have no idea what brand pencils to buy, or who is making pencils up to the quality of old Ticonderoga. I do agree that I would pay a lot more for real Ticonderoga pencils if they had stayed high quality.
Are you high!?!? Bro even when i was in elementary school in the early 2000' i HATED thease, they have always been trash.
Maybe you can use that sober shrewdness of yours to point us towards a better replacement, then.
Hey Pocket. Been watching your videos for about 10 years and finally have a reason to leave a comment. If you're looking for a new pencil, I highly recommend the Mitsubishi 9850. They're ~$8.00 for a dozen or so and are very much still cedar! Lead quality is excellent as well
2mm leadholders are superior to wood cased pencils anyway.
No, they aren't. They have a much narrower application, a higher expense, and they're less trustworthy. Further, they are far more mechanically complex, which means that they conflict with principle of parsimony.
And if we're going to skip the fact that they can't be pressed against with any reasonably man-handed force, and just pretend as though they'll always dispense the correct length of graphite, well, then we're assuming a high-end mechanical, and I don't have the kind of loot it takes to spread two dozen of those around my shop. They're only "superior" for work environments in which one can neither swear nor spit, and even there they're a rationalized-for-their-portability compromise. The Cedar-wood pencil is an optimized design. Any changes to it are a detraction.
@@pocket83squared So... skill issues and made up problems. Got it.
@@thanatos454 Do you have a shop? Ever marked a piece of actual wood? You don't sound smart enough to work in design or engineering, so I'm guessing all that certainty isn't coming from experience. An experienced craftsman probably wouldn't sarcastically scoff at my opinion.
See if you can make an argument. Brevity is not the _entirety_ of wit.
My complaint is that the quality of the lead is so much worse. The black outside colored pencils that I loved so much have lead that is so much lighter and not the nice bold black lead they used to have.
Mitsubishi K9850 are made of cedar and they're not as expensive as something like a Blackwing is
I'll be burned at the stake for heresy, but I'm recommending mechanical pencils.
Fool! Rube! Imbecile! Stone him!
Seriously, though. They'd be nice if I didn't use such heavy writing pressure. Additionally, mechanicals are inferior in terms of cross-media writing. Plywood, for example. But it's the buy-in that I really don't like. Reduced numbers. And the loss of tactile pleasure; the experience of making a one-to-one force scratch-on graphite deposition has a sort of candlelight-like delightfulness to it. It's real or something. Whatever. Shut up, you're wrong.
@@pocket83squared All perfectly valid points. Especially the last one.
Depressing but true. My wife is involved in a charity that gets school supplies to elementary schools (which for some reason no longer supply things like pencils to their students). The charity used to require Ticonderoga pencils because you could actually sharpen them. They dropped the requirement last year, because there was no longer a difference.
I use the Dixon Tri-Conderogas. But they've likely gone the same route being the same company, and all
Remedy mechanical out of Japan
The only way i can tell if a pencil is cedar, is to chew on it a while.LOL
I’ve never paid attention but it all makes sense 😢
Palomino Golden Bear pencils or Mitsubishi 9852s
Musgrave For Life. Ticons suck now. The last box that I bought was off center. Garbage.
Wow! Sucks to hear this. Our school requires these pencils and we spend our money to provide them! Frustrated to hear this is the case!
Ticonderoga is well on it's way to Black & Deckerizing its brand
This was meant as a joke, correct?
What makes you think that?
@@pocket83squared Because it's a pencil. Sure some people still use a pencil in a shop to mark things. I have a few pencils in my shop, but when I need to mark something, I reach to my mechanical pencil.
I think your video was ment as a joke because you put what I thought was too much emotion, too much effort into a pencil.
It's a pencil. Their are literally 100s of other options. Including many that are better than a pencil.
That's why I thought your video was ment a a joke. ;)
@@raulc. The pencil is probably the most-used tool that I have. As such, I want it to be the best, and the least annoying, that it can possibly be. Precision work requires quality instrumentation.
Have you ever _used_ a Cedar pencil? Not used as in one time on a test; but used as in used them in the shop until you actually learn how to sharpen it in a way that will outperform a mechanical. No, it was not a joke: there is nothing yet invented that's "better than a pencil." Beware the suasion of marketing.
@@pocket83squared down to your question, I don't know if I have ever used a Cedar pencil. As much effort as you put into that video and how you responded to my comments, I am now very curious. I'm going to see if I can find a Cedar pencil.
@@raulc. If you just use it to take notes, you may not notice the difference other than ease of sharpening. If you sketch, you will definitely notice a difference in pencil quality.
It’s not a nosedive, there are two types of pencil, the Mexico Ones (Good) and the China Ones (Bad) and they likely just changed what batches go to which stores. You’ll notice the China ones are Glossy with Bad Erasers.
The Mexican-made pencils are not Cedar. Perhaps they're using Basswood or something now? Nevertheless, they are _still_ lesser quality when compared with the original. Even the graphite is misaligned!
Hell hath no fury like a man whose pencil you've messed with
"Specious at best" - Ticonderoga really wasted their product placement money on this video! Not parody, but I still got a chuckle out of it.
As someone alluded to, what about a drafting pencil, AKA (?) lead holder.
Faber Castell 9000, the artists choice! And Staedtler Noris the black and yellow striped ones or the Staedtler Mars blue casing ones. Both are great alternatives. Even the Stabilo school pencils.
Made in China. Prang Power coupon on the back of package.
i've switched to japanese mechanical pencil
Pentel makes many awsome pencils :) For drawing.
For writning my faverite are Uni Kuro Toga
That's always been where it's at. Japanese is Japanese and the rest is either cheap and humble or overpriced junk.
I could not believe the last package of these I bought about a year, year and a half ago. The wood sucks, sharpening them no matter how carefully always results in an inferior point, and the leads are terrible. So soft it's like writing with mush and the point is just rolling over like playdoh after even a short sentence, but then you look on the page and it is lighter shading than even the hardest pencils, so nowhere near as legible as anyone would want for a writing pencil. In other words neither of the advantages of hard OR soft leads, but with somehow BOTH of the disadvantages! Constantly needing sharpening to try and get some semblance of a line on the page, but not able to obtain a good point, causing massive waste. The mark they left on the page could be smudged off easily without an eraser. The appeal of this brand in the past was not that it was actually the world's best pencil, but one of the world's most consistent and perfectly average pencils especially for the price. I think back to my school days and I can't remember using a pencil that was this bad, not even from the cheap, second-rate off brands.
Yeah. It's like every brand that becomes successful enough begins to sell a zombie version of the thing that made it successful in the first place.
Came here from the Blackwing video. Get that one. Blackwing.
The price is unrealistic. At over two bucks a pop, I won't even test-use them. A top-quality pencil is a simple manufacture requiring only basic, widely available materials; there's no possible explanation for that high price other than marketing and hype.
@@pocket83squared Understandable, but WSJ did a video about them. The reason they are expensive is because they are a specialty product made in much smaller volumes than regular pencils. It's a reproduction of the original, which was already a bit of a specialty pencil liked by animators. The oddly shaped eraser and ferrule required brand new machines because the old ones stopped working, which is why the original was discontinued. To that same point, only #2/HB pencils are cheap, because they are widely used. Softer and harder pencils are more niche and cost more, though $2 is quite high. I buy softer Japanese pencils and still only pay about $1.
That said, they are owned by California Cedar Products, which make cheaper models. Two such are Golden Bear and ForestChoice, which run about $5 per dozen.
@@pocket83squared Artists use super high quality pencils like Blackwing for sketching. Those are not necessary for a workshop.
I'm not that picky. I just hate those synthetic wood pencils. Now I tend to use Home Depot pencils.
Don't give Ticonderoga any ideas to perpetuate their subterfuge!
Next thing you know--they'll be spraying the pencils with cedar perfume.
NOS Ebay listing for Ticonderoga pencils...
I'm not so nostalgic. Neither am I willing to cough up more than a buck apiece for banged-up old pencils. I'm looking for a sustainable supplier.
I guess musgrave is the best now... at least musgrave is USA made too.
They've been making them in the same place for over 100 years and they're the only place to get high quality printed pencils, let alone made in america.
Pentel White eraser end caps also are great and cheap.
I'm not sure to say this but Filipino pencil brands are made with some soft wood, I guess.
I was very disappointed with the new Ticonderogas. Found these pencils on Amazon that were being promoted and sound promising: Bostitch premium AMERICAN cedar pencils. Musgrave pencils have been excellent, especially the harvest professional pencil.
The Musgrave is too outlandishly expensive, but I will vouch for the Bostitch, which is an excellent cedar pencil (for now). I've been using them for around a year, and they make a great replacement. Note that the lead is darker than the old Ticonderoga, and also the eraser doesn't work as well. But it's tough, affordable, precise, and well-made. I am not sponsored to say that.
Mitsubishi pencils are all you'll ever need.
It's like you named your pencil Daisy, and Ticonderoga Iosef Tarasov killed your pencil. And now the violence ensues.
And I bought those pencils, following your lead, 4ish years ago... dang
@@jdniedner They might be Cedar if they're four years old. Do they smell sweet? Is the wood reddish? Do the pencils flex?
Shift to: Staedtler Noris (yellow and black), Staedtler Mars Lumograph, Faber-Castell 9000, Cretacolor .. or Mitsubishi Hi-Uni
Ceder wood is the best!
Is staedtler cedar?
Now there will be run on the old pencils just like chalk
"No. I am not going to run a control test so that you can see how junky the new pencils are. You can find out for yourself if you buy them." Oh... Ok. 🤨
You've been warned. If you still buy non-Cedar pencils in spite of my pointing it out to you, then you deserve to learn for yourself.