Bonus video! This one was requested by someone from our community yesterday, so I thought I’d whip it up and really take a deep dive into the key reasoning and explore how they may still encounter difficulties upon their potential return. Thanks for the support!!
When United acquired continental, Continental had a solid hub at EWR, and united basically took over operations there, creating a transatlantic gateway that Continental once had. I think it’s a good decision seeing that most of their flights are at EWR.
Please. Let’s be clear about one thing. United did not acquire Continental. When United emerged from bankruptcy, it was shopping for a merger. USAirways was the original merger goal. It turned out that Continental was a better fit for both airlines because of hub locations and route structures. When the Merger was complete, it was Continental’s management that remained. United’s officers took their golden parachutes. Senior management retired or found other opportunities. The new United got Continental’s CEO, Jeff Smisek, who was wheeling and dealing with the Port Authority on side for expansion at EWR. All that remains of United Airlines is the name and “Rhapsody in Blue.” Continental kept their livery, their meatball tail logo and their entire aircraft maintenance division. It was United’s technicians who had to adapt to Continental’s way of doing maintenance. So please do not believe that United “acquired” Continental. It was clearly the other way around.
Consolidation at Liberty International Airport EWR is a good thing. No point to threaten anything. jFK is a major airport. Slots will be sold to others.
Part of the problem at EWR is it is so crowded on the ground, that flights are late departing quite often--especially connections. I would much rather connect at JFK--especially to and from European destinations.
United, when they merged with Continental, got essentially a "fortress hub" at EWR. They may make it even more so, especially since NJ Transit has direct service from EWR to New York Penn Station, the most important train station in New York City, plus connections to PATH trains to the south end of Manhattan.
The Air Train at EWR to NJT to Manhattan isn't good at all. The Air Train from JFK to LIRR isn't any better. Soon LGA will have a similar Air Train to LIRR which could then go to Manhattan. All 3 airports need s direct Air Train link into Manhattan, which looks like will never happen.
Interesting, as back in the 90s United had a bigger presence at JFK, including international flights to LHR. Also, Northwest had a direct flight to Tokyo Narita from JFK as well.
I don’t know if they still have it, but in the 1980s I flew United nonstop from EWR to Narita. Does this flight still exist? I live in San Francisco and we have a lot more options to Asia. We even have nonstops to Vietnam, Singapore and Tahiti!
Also another reason their initial pullout after their merger with Continental may have been short sided was there are many Star Alliance members that use JFK over EWR which UA could have code shared if they still used JFK as a hub. Turkish Airlines, Lufthansa, ANA, etc have many flights a day to JFK. UA could have still offered flights to it's focus destinations like Florida or other smaller airports on the east coast as feeder routes.
Appreciate your channel! Can you provide an analysis sometime explaining the basics of airline arraignments with airports, the use of "slots", and how these arraignments can affect profitability?
United just completed its huge new Terminal B at LGA while Newark is its primary New York area hub and international gateway. I never understood what role the JFK operation was supposed to fill.
Flying from their Hubs at SFO & LAX to EWR for passengers who lived East & North of Manhattan is too much of a trip. Imagine living in Long Island or Connecticut and traveling to and from New Jersey for the flight. JFK could serve as an important role if they open up more slots and have 5+ flight per day to each west coast destination, but Delta, American, and JetBlue already do this. United can do what they did at LGA, at JFK but for longer flights including International flights to Asia & Europe if they reduce a flew flights from EWR and move them to JFK.
I wasn't really sure what point you were trying to make here: It almost sounded like you were saying that United pulled out of Kennedy in a fit of pique. In the '80's and '90's United did a very good job flying JFKLAX and JFKSFO out of T7 before AA expanded, and then later JFKLHR sharing T5 (I think it was) with BA. You can actually make money flying back and forth JFKLAX and SFO, but you need frequency of departures or you're never going to compete with AA on infrequent travelers and may only get pax with status on UA or otherwise committed to Mileage Plus. I was one of the first members, from back in 1980, so I'm old enough that I don't fly so much any more.... also I have lifetime status by now. But one or two flights a day won't build market share, and my travel time to Newark, with a big choice of UA flights, isn't any longer than getting to JFK. So I hope UA gets the slots to return to JFK with greater frequency, and that would even give me more options for getting to HNL (although I could still go EWR-HNL, once per day, or even LGA-DEN-HNL, or my favorite, LGA-ORD-HNL.) It's tough when you take 35 years to build lifetime status, and by that time you're so old you really don't want to fly so much any more.
I wish he would have touched on the original UA pull out of T7. Also the slots they were granted were temporary due to low international demand (they were using other airlines slots that were suspended due to Covid). So UA always knew a pull out was imminent unless they found away to actually secure permanent slots. I think JFK is a big market for them to serve especially as an out station with service to (LAX,SFO,IAH,ORD,DEN) out of JFK. I don’t think they need to go competing for a hub but I think jfk should have service to there other hubs. This is also on the heels of sales platforms not recognizing EWR as a NYC airport. We will see what happens, UA sees JFK as a market they need to be in and has even stated they would buy there way in (how all those JetBlue and United merger rumors started) so we know JFK is in there sights
From a former UA sales manager ...I have gladly paid $50+ more to fly JetBlue vs UA out of JFK for years Greater seat pitch in steerage/coach, and stewardesses who actually don't detest their company....refreshing.
I'm not sure they will get an opportunity for more slots if they just gave up the ones the had. Those slots will get gobbled up and likely never taken back.
They never had slots. These were given TEMPORARILY when assigned do to low international travel do to Covid they always knew they would get taken back they just hoped they would have more time to get permanent ones
As others have stated JFK just didn't make sense for them between Jetblue and Delta having far better products, and the Jetblue/American partnership, United had nothing to gain. Not to mention Newark is essentially a fortress hub for United.
That is basically cutting off the populations of Brooklyn and Queens from seriously considering using jfk. At least as far as United is concerned. That is millions of people looking elsewhere for any sort of international flight.
I would not fly into JFK in any event. Nor LGA for that matter. If I had to fly into the city I would go into Newark where it is a simple 1 train ride into NYP. Or I could take AMTK, what the heck, I'm not in any big hurry.
United is not used to not getting their way. Just look at the Capitol region Dulles gets all international routes by their hub at Dulles and screws BEI which is the busiest and peoples choice for the Washington Baltimore region. I certainly hope BWI gets their fair share of the routes international when and if Southwest ever lives up to its promises to Maryland and go full speed ahead with international flights in and out of BWI. Maybe Jet Blue and Spirit will fill the trans Atlantic trans pacific routes from BWI the demand certainly is there.
I liked the video & I subscribed! As for United, they will have to learn to live with their decision to leave JFK for now. One thing is for sure, the PANY will not now & never will be pushed around! The powers that be at UA will have to get that through their heads before they will be assigned slots at JFK at any time in the future!
United had about 3000 flights per year out of JFK. United is also and has always played hardball with the FAA regarding slots. Goodbye, United, JFK won’t miss you. You’re already at EWR which is a hub so enjoy.
Best thing to happen to JFK, I use JFK as an international gateway to Asia, so I'm transiting 3-5 times annually. Once Terminal 1 renovation is completed, it will be a really great hub and even better without their presence.
JFK makes no sense for United to maintain presence there at all. They have EWR. JFK is frankly just a distraction they are better without. People who live closer to EWR, will go with UAL for conveniance. People who live closer to JFK, probably aren't UAL users anyway. For people going from central NYC, I don't think there's much difference in travel time to EWR or JFK. In fact looking up Times Square to both airports on public transport, EWR might actually be quicker!
JFK sucks. For some reason Southwest doesn’t fly to JFK either. Last year I needed almost 2 hours to get from one terminal to another (using the shuttle bus). Over three hours standing in line at Immigration (with a US passport). Pathetic.
The only reason United did not get what they wanted is because the right people did not get paid enough, give me a break, I've been around for 73 years and sweet stories are not my friends anymore!
Not sure how dropping an airport is going to help with a quest for more slots at some point of time in the future. Still, this is United, one of the worst of the US legacy carriers, not exactly renowned for their quality of service. Not sure many will see this as a great loss to JFK.
Bonus video! This one was requested by someone from our community yesterday, so I thought I’d whip it up and really take a deep dive into the key reasoning and explore how they may still encounter difficulties upon their potential return. Thanks for the support!!
How often will you be uploading videos on this channel?
@@heidirabenau511 Every 2-3 days is the content plan, however, sometimes there might be a bonus video so keep your eyes peeled 😊
When United acquired continental, Continental had a solid hub at EWR, and united basically took over operations there, creating a transatlantic gateway that Continental once had. I think it’s a good decision seeing that most of their flights are at EWR.
EWR is a solid hub you’re right there! It’s so important for them and there presence at JFK recently hasn’t been that huge.
Please. Let’s be clear about one thing. United did not acquire Continental. When United emerged from bankruptcy, it was shopping for a merger. USAirways was the original merger goal. It turned out that Continental was a better fit for both airlines because of hub locations and route structures. When the Merger was complete, it was Continental’s management that remained. United’s officers took their golden parachutes. Senior management retired or found other opportunities. The new United got Continental’s CEO, Jeff Smisek, who was wheeling and dealing with the Port Authority on side for expansion at EWR. All that remains of United Airlines is the name and “Rhapsody in Blue.” Continental kept their livery, their meatball tail logo and their entire aircraft maintenance division. It was United’s technicians who had to adapt to Continental’s way of doing maintenance.
So please do not believe that United “acquired” Continental. It was clearly the other way around.
@@TenMinuteTrips PS.....I despise Newark Airport. JMO
It's the lowest prices between JFK and LGA
Consolidation at Liberty International Airport EWR is a good thing. No point to threaten anything. jFK is a major airport. Slots will be sold to others.
It’s better for UNITED to focus on EWR . In my opinion atleast . Hopefully they can find ways to expand at their other hubs like SFO and O’Hare !
Just flew into EWR , real easy to train into nyc to Penn station $15, today I flew out to LGA $70 one way Lyft … EWR is my first choice
Your new web address is excellent. Your analysis is always clear and concise. I certainly welcome you here.
This was a nice suprise Dan, thanks for more content!
Thank you
Nice im glad this has been covered 👍
Great video
Amazing video Globe Trotting at DJ’s Aviation
We are looking at every 2-3 days, however, sometimes you might get more content 😊
Part of the problem at EWR is it is so crowded on the ground, that flights are late departing quite often--especially connections. I would much rather connect at JFK--especially to and from European destinations.
Appreciate your hard work 😊
Thanks!
Nice video👍
United, when they merged with Continental, got essentially a "fortress hub" at EWR. They may make it even more so, especially since NJ Transit has direct service from EWR to New York Penn Station, the most important train station in New York City, plus connections to PATH trains to the south end of Manhattan.
It is the same as taking LIRR to the AirTrain I wouldn’t argue that aspect is more convenient both leaving from Penn
Amtrak access to the south too. EWR is basically another Philly airport as well
@@nickramirez7932 it’s shorter and cheaper from ewr. Air train is $8 one way and LIRR is like $17 in peak hours
The Air Train at EWR to NJT to Manhattan isn't good at all. The Air Train from JFK to LIRR isn't any better. Soon LGA will have a similar Air Train to LIRR which could then go to Manhattan. All 3 airports need s direct Air Train link into Manhattan, which looks like will never happen.
Interesting, as back in the 90s United had a bigger presence at JFK, including international flights to LHR. Also, Northwest had a direct flight to Tokyo Narita from JFK as well.
Yep. I had a grade school friend whose dad was a captain on the NWA SEA-JFK-NRT-SEA route. Gone are the days.
I don’t know if they still have it, but in the 1980s I flew United nonstop from EWR to Narita. Does this flight still exist? I live in San Francisco and we have a lot more options to Asia. We even have nonstops to Vietnam, Singapore and Tahiti!
@@danielgloverpiano7693 Right now it exists as UA 78/79 and uses a 787-9 or a 777-300ER.
@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102
Good to know, thanks! It beats the old days when you always had to stopover in Alaska for refueling. That was endless.
Awsome video as always Dan🎉🎉
Thanks Elliot!
I love this new channel!
Thank you so much
Also another reason their initial pullout after their merger with Continental may have been short sided was there are many Star Alliance members that use JFK over EWR which UA could have code shared if they still used JFK as a hub. Turkish Airlines, Lufthansa, ANA, etc have many flights a day to JFK. UA could have still offered flights to it's focus destinations like Florida or other smaller airports on the east coast as feeder routes.
Appreciate your channel! Can you provide an analysis sometime explaining the basics of airline arraignments with airports, the use of "slots", and how these arraignments can affect profitability?
Thank you for the suggestion! I’ll add it to the list, we also have a form in the description where you can submit suggestions
United just completed its huge new Terminal B at LGA while Newark is its primary New York area hub and international gateway. I never understood what role the JFK operation was supposed to fill.
Flying from their Hubs at SFO & LAX to EWR for passengers who lived East & North of Manhattan is too much of a trip. Imagine living in Long Island or Connecticut and traveling to and from New Jersey for the flight. JFK could serve as an important role if they open up more slots and have 5+ flight per day to each west coast destination, but Delta, American, and JetBlue already do this. United can do what they did at LGA, at JFK but for longer flights including International flights to Asia & Europe if they reduce a flew flights from EWR and move them to JFK.
Happy new channel and journey United airlines new wide body 787 and 350.
New sub!
Thanks very much
UA’s new blue livery looks magnificent.
I wasn't really sure what point you were trying to make here: It almost sounded like you were saying that United pulled out of Kennedy in a fit of pique. In the '80's and '90's United did a very good job flying JFKLAX and JFKSFO out of T7 before AA expanded, and then later JFKLHR sharing T5 (I think it was) with BA. You can actually make money flying back and forth JFKLAX and SFO, but you need frequency of departures or you're never going to compete with AA on infrequent travelers and may only get pax with status on UA or otherwise committed to Mileage Plus. I was one of the first members, from back in 1980, so I'm old enough that I don't fly so much any more.... also I have lifetime status by now. But one or two flights a day won't build market share, and my travel time to Newark, with a big choice of UA flights, isn't any longer than getting to JFK.
So I hope UA gets the slots to return to JFK with greater frequency, and that would even give me more options for getting to HNL (although I could still go EWR-HNL, once per day, or even LGA-DEN-HNL, or my favorite, LGA-ORD-HNL.) It's tough when you take 35 years to build lifetime status, and by that time you're so old you really don't want to fly so much any more.
I wish he would have touched on the original UA pull out of T7. Also the slots they were granted were temporary due to low international demand (they were using other airlines slots that were suspended due to Covid). So UA always knew a pull out was imminent unless they found away to actually secure permanent slots. I think JFK is a big market for them to serve especially as an out station with service to (LAX,SFO,IAH,ORD,DEN) out of JFK. I don’t think they need to go competing for a hub but I think jfk should have service to there other hubs. This is also on the heels of sales platforms not recognizing EWR as a NYC airport. We will see what happens, UA sees JFK as a market they need to be in and has even stated they would buy there way in (how all those JetBlue and United merger rumors started) so we know JFK is in there sights
Great!
Yes
@@xool2598 Why you COPY!
@@manufacturingchannel8411 ok ok sorry i change
Can you make a video about why Biman Bangledesh's Toronto route is so unpopuler?
We've added that to the list!
I knew UAL had only a small presence at JFK, but less than 1%?!? I didn't realize it was THAT small. 😉✌️
From a former UA sales manager
...I have gladly paid $50+ more to fly JetBlue vs UA out of JFK for years
Greater seat pitch in steerage/coach, and stewardesses who actually don't detest their company....refreshing.
They certainly won’t be missed at JFK. Lots more and even better options available.
I'm not sure they will get an opportunity for more slots if they just gave up the ones the had. Those slots will get gobbled up and likely never taken back.
They never had slots. These were given TEMPORARILY when assigned do to low international travel do to Covid they always knew they would get taken back they just hoped they would have more time to get permanent ones
As others have stated JFK just didn't make sense for them between Jetblue and Delta having far better products, and the Jetblue/American partnership, United had nothing to gain. Not to mention Newark is essentially a fortress hub for United.
That is basically cutting off the populations of Brooklyn and Queens from seriously considering using jfk. At least as far as United is concerned. That is millions of people looking elsewhere for any sort of international flight.
I would not fly into JFK in any event. Nor LGA for that matter. If I had to fly into the city I would go into Newark where it is a simple 1 train ride into NYP. Or I could take AMTK, what the heck, I'm not in any big hurry.
United is not used to not getting their way. Just look at the Capitol region Dulles gets all international routes by their hub at Dulles and screws BEI which is the busiest and peoples choice for the Washington Baltimore region. I certainly hope BWI gets their fair share of the routes international when and if Southwest ever lives up to its promises to Maryland and go full speed ahead with international flights in and out of BWI. Maybe Jet Blue and Spirit will fill the trans Atlantic trans pacific routes from BWI the demand certainly is there.
I would certainly appreciate UA shifting their international routes away from IAD to BWI.
Either way the New York airports are a pain in the ass to travel through
If it makes sense and money I will continue operating, I'm sure United know what it the plan,thanks.
They should of never gave delta the Jfk slots
Ya gotta do what you gotta do... it all boils down to... MONEY
I liked the video & I subscribed! As for United, they will have to learn to live with their decision to leave JFK for now. One thing is for sure, the PANY will not now & never will be pushed around! The powers that be at UA will have to get that through their heads before they will be assigned slots at JFK at any time in the future!
I'm a united airlines employee and a Newark native and I still live here ua never should have been in JFK stay in Newark and expand your routes at EWR
I believe Newark is better choice overall. They dominate EWR.
Newark is United central that’s for sure’
At least this may speed up the process of demolishing T7 to make way for T6 and T8 expansion
No more guitars will be broken at JFK then🤔🤣
United had about 3000 flights per year out of JFK. United is also and has always played hardball with the FAA regarding slots. Goodbye, United, JFK won’t miss you. You’re already at EWR which is a hub so enjoy.
Hopefully more businesses will pull out of New York. Couldn't happen to a "nicer" city.
United doesn't need JFK. Newark and Laguardida are acceptable alternatives and often easier to get to.
Best thing to happen to JFK, I use JFK as an international gateway to Asia, so I'm transiting 3-5 times annually. Once Terminal 1 renovation is completed, it will be a really great hub and even better without their presence.
JFK makes no sense for United to maintain presence there at all. They have EWR. JFK is frankly just a distraction they are better without. People who live closer to EWR, will go with UAL for conveniance. People who live closer to JFK, probably aren't UAL users anyway. For people going from central NYC, I don't think there's much difference in travel time to EWR or JFK. In fact looking up Times Square to both airports on public transport, EWR might actually be quicker!
This is not true. They fly to La Guardia.
Didnt United Airlines leave JFK previously and came back ?
Yes and the slots they got to come back were temporary slots anyways due to low international demand due to Covid
JFK sucks. For some reason Southwest doesn’t fly to JFK either. Last year I needed almost 2 hours to get from one terminal to another (using the shuttle bus). Over three hours standing in line at Immigration (with a US passport). Pathetic.
just take over lga and ewr
EWR is much more convenient.
For Goombahs, ugly people, and mosquitoes
If you love on that side of the river.
No surprise…JFK was never a big deal for UA
UA was never a big deal for JFK
The only reason United did not get what they wanted is because the right people did not get paid enough, give me a break, I've been around for 73 years and sweet stories are not my friends anymore!
Not sure how dropping an airport is going to help with a quest for more slots at some point of time in the future. Still, this is United, one of the worst of the US legacy carriers, not exactly renowned for their quality of service. Not sure many will see this as a great loss to JFK.
Worse airline out of Newark
Worst airline
UAL still the best 👍
Ok UAL employee
@@NicotineRosberg Jealous?
GOOD
F#$@ NY