I agree. The whining white guy saying the British were the ones who ended slavery was unreal. And your whining comment is the cherry on top. Pull yourselves up by your socks and work hard, stop blaming brown people.
And you're dripping in privilege afforded by the exploitation of the global South by the global North. You set up neo colonial exploitative relationships with the global South and then claim that they cant progress the way the West had done. Britain couldn't even deal with the EU making some of their rules and royally shot themselves in the foot with brexit but you expect poor developing countries to have their entire lives dictated by the West. Unbelievable
The incredible irony of some of the people in this debate is; these people are living, working and studying in parts of the world they don’t believe in. The hypocrisy is bewildering.
Yes just like how the West is happy to create and prop up dictatorship after dictatorship while also calling for human rights and free speech. The irony here is you're arguing for free speech and then start crying when brown people in the video use free speech.
@@OMAR-br9ui I have no problem criticizing LGBTQ+ extremism, but I support Judaism. I do think Netanyahu doesn't have a post war agenda and he needs to be on trial for corruption. However the Arab world problems go on and on always blaming others for their problems. At least UAE, Bahrain, Saudi Arabic, etc. are seeing they need Israel for the long term. Ask yourself how long will it be before any Arab country is truly a democracy?
@@sbaumgartner9848 no, LGBTQ+ and judaism. not extremism BS or even modern day hit-ler, Netanyahu . we wanna see your Freedom of speech bragging in the FREE DEMOCRATIC WORLD to criticise these two topics, or you know what, just question the the holocaust in public.
The lack of diversity of thought within the audience is laughable. This isnt a debate, its a grilling of Western values by attempting to highlight every shortcoming of Western interventions and past actions. Its Muslims and anti-western propagandists vs Konstantin. The very fact the audience and panel can show such disdain and contempt for the values that gave rise to the society they speak and live in, negates nearly every point and sneer that came from the audience
The fact that they're choosing to live in the West, despite their obvious disdain for Western culture and the people who created it, shows what a joke they are.
Way too much. Like worshipping Al Jazeera while their employees were part of an entire country attack yet calling it "Journalism". Or saying Biden never mentioned the casualties while many people laughed when he said million of Gazans died. Or showing how you change a narrative by changing the words of a headline while at the same time using your own narrative. 😅 And if I can sum it all up, is to make an entire conversation all about Palestine and naming the title free speech. @@aliyum8455
I would love to see a UK sponsored "debate" (it was basically a bunch of people in complete agreement + Konstantin) in Qatar with a roomful of Christians from Western countries complaining about Qatar and the Arab world. That would be just great. Thanks.
How can Middle Eastern people coming to the West or any democratic country demand freedom of speech and expression which they never fought for in their own country? If anybody think bringing democracy to country is so easy then they should think twice.
It's good to criticise the culture that we live in and there is plenty of valid criticisms there and some good questions that were asked. A lot of viewers seem to be forgetting that 'which culture is better' was never a topic of this discussion and if it was, it'd overwhelmingly be the western ones even with their faults. The biggest fault here is the question "Are Western narratives promoting global justice?" because western cultures are made of many different countries and you can find each and every view expressed in each of these countries. They seemed to be trying to answer different questions
@@Posts_Commentsit’s good to criticise the culture - yes But can you imagine how does it sound for British ears? Britain ended slavery, is the leading country regards the human rights and might be one of the best countries to live in. In this country is massively getting criticised by 1) black people who are blaming UK (forgetting that UK actually was first country what did open the gates of freedom) 2) Islam population which failed to create a peaceful country in its on fully Islamic country - do not want integrate and blame UK for everything they can 3) and all the others what simply hates any government Can you imagine how English people are actually seeing this? They think - why the hell I am doing good, opening my doors if you come, shit here and later criticise me?
@@aigoaizporietis9275 I am native English. I agree with every single point you raised passionately. I'm very angry with how this country is treated by its own leaders, its degredation in nearly every aspect, the hostility I see online increasing toward the UK, the damage being done to our culture importing other cultures that are generally hostile to our own, I'm with you through and through. 1) I really wish that was covered more and, the fact they tried to speak over him was disgusting. The Empire should absolutely be celebrated for this unprecedented achievement and I think it should be made a national holiday in many countries. 2) 3) I agree when he says we should compare the west to others, but it's not what the question was. The question was "Are Western narratives promoting global justice?", the answer is of course a yes and a no. The guy at 13:40 really did show how silly the question was. We can give all the good that we like, and they give all the bad that they like and both will still be valid, but the negative things they brought up are important to cover. Sadly It's a loaded question and we know what the consensus is since the majority there are seemingly anti-western and after a quick glance at dozens of their video titles, I found much critisizing the west but non against arab or muslim cultures.
@@Posts_Comments the answer Western narratives are the ones which are the CLOSEST to promoting global justice. There is no other place in the world where you can do things, what you are allowed to do in West (freedom wise) Example What is the cheapest price (in this analogy the closest in providing global justice) 100$ or 200$ or 50$ 50$ is the smallest amount and this is the closest to the 0. Same is the west. It is not ideal but there is no better place to show us, how it should be, the west is the best place at the moment
These kids are too young and slow on their feet. All of Kisin's arguments are easily deconstructed as they're false equivalencies, straw man, logical fallacies etc. Take that Usain Bolt thing he pulled off like a fifth grader. So if you don't like it that you're not having free speech here when criticizing Israel, just move because we are in war of information and we have to fight back? And no, US did not restrict the flow of info during cold war the way they're doing now while going after RT. Nixon as VP debated Khrushchev and it was televised in US. Singling that 1835 Britain's move as ending slavery is dishonest cherry picking, because what happened after that (care to compare slavery caused by west at that point in time to other, and which other slavery did it end, and which ended on its own, which continued to serve their interests etc. Otherwise it's a PR stunt bringing that up)? There is slavery all around the world right know that UK is complicit in, one way or another. Dude is just weak all around. He's a youtuber like destiny, farming engagement. If he was serious at all, he would take time to study literature confronting views he takes for granted (like those on clash of civilization he and Douglas take, widely criticized by far more established serious academics and researchers). These Brits are cheap illiterate knock offs of Christopher Hitchens and your falling for their bs because it comforts your bias.
Very true. Kisin arguments are very thought provoking and they were tied in knots when asked to name any better place to live in than the West which nobody could answer.
Next week's Doha Debate sounds more interesting: "Do gay people, non-muslims and apostates have a fun time in Islamic countries?" Good luck to any "free speech absolutists" living in those places.
The part I don't get about Muslim critics of the west is that they are emotionally passionate about calling out the west for what it doesn't do, yet they never compare Muslim states to the west and acknowledges just how much more fairness, peace, freedom and justice exists in the West. I believe they are simply frustrated that their states do so poorly, and opt to palm this off as being due to western oppression, when sure that is a limited factor, but it is mostly the incompetence, nepotism and corruption = overall clunkiness of their Muslim systems, that is to blame.
Nah you ignore the fact that the west are the ones who forcing dictatorships on the Muslim countries every Muslim dictatorship is supported by the west for example American has treaty with Saudi family to guarantees security. So if we Arabians in Arabia if we want to get rid of the Saudi family and fix our country the America military will come to fight on behalf of the Saudi family. Were not frustrated with ourselves we are frustrated with you telling us women right and children rights because when moment of truth, come you turn your back on everything you claim to believe in.
Plus you don’t have freedom. You are controlled by your private sector. Your private sector are the one who decide what is right and what is wrong in your society. Your private sector Are the ones who forcing dictatorship on us
@@ceooflonelinessinc.267 Islam means submission to God. The philosophy is that when one submits to God(Truth) one finds true Peace (inner and outer wholesome Peace)
@@ceooflonelinessinc.267 that's not true. Islam encourages that those who believe treat one another with dignity and respect EVEN if the person of a disbeliever there should be fairness and ethics.
@@gbaili That's a lie. Let's expose your lie. Koran 5:32 - Tell me what is considered 'Corruption among the Earth/land'? Don't lie, I will expose your lie. The next verse, Koran 5:33, "Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment," - Sahih International Koran 5:51 - "O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." - Sahih International Koran 5:38 - "[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they earned [i.e., committed] as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." - Sahih International Nice try though.
I’m all for holding ourselves in the west accountable. But I also noted how not one person in the audience or on the panel could say where it was being done better in response to Konstantin’s question. I’d also add that every single member of that audience is non-‘Western’ but has chosen Western education to develop their intellects, and is following the Western tradition of open debate for this discussion. I guess we’re doing something right.
If west was so awful, the question then is why do so many other nationals migrate to west? And not the other way around. That in itself indicates that for many life is more worth living in the west rather than where they came from, for whatever their reason might be.
I wish there were more Pro-Western people in the audience. I love how they did not answer the question, "other than the west, where would you go criticize the government and the dominant religion?".
This entire "debate" is laughable. Firstly, it's because Konstantin is the only sole dissent here. Secondly, it's ironic to see a bunch of Muslim Hamas sympathisers who, having enjoyed the freedom and privileges of the West's tolerance of free speech and religion, bash the West about it's "erosion" of free speech IN England. And third, they are literally whining about losing free speech in the sense that they cannot trash talk Israel and Jews in the West. If I try to support Israel in any Middle Eastern countries, I'll be dead. Which brings to another point unrelated to this debate-the UK government has failed miserably in its immigration policies by allowing ideas like this to fester in British towns and cities, and bringing in immigrants uncontrollably who do not share Western, Judeo-Christian values. Very sad.
@rafatchowdhury9819 Actually, they've stayed fairly neutral and have let people speak when asking questions. They're trying to find the truth out if a very complicated conflict.
This debate has a DIVERSITY issue! Where are the voices from the majority of white faces in the UK. How dare you lecture us on DEI, then blatantly disregard the principle when hosting this debate. YOU HYPOCRITES!
And if “Doha debates” want to talk about restrictive free speech, slavery and hypocrisy…. Qatar shouldn’t be speaking on this issue at all😂😂😂😂 they are a joke and we all know it
As a Bangladeshi i can confirm what you are saying. in fact free speech does not exist in most Asian countries. Also i want to say that Islam tells to abolish slavery but the so called Muslims don't
This format was a poor choice. There are 2 people who speak in this debate on behalf of the west and one apologist for the west. The rest of the speakers and attendees are there to speak against the west. That being said, a productive conversation could have been held between the three main speakers. The moderator kept cutting them off and bouncing from undereducated student to undereducated student and avoided letting the debate actually reach a point where substance could have been achieved.
What I dislike about this is, Konstantin is almost one man vs everyone else and everyone are give equal times. meaning he get 10 mins of questions and 1 mins to answer.
Im really surprised that these Arab men and woman are so concern of Democracy of the west ,where their Religion, country, society is not even free. Where Konstantin is honest about the flaws of the west.
@@DaveDEF82 Since its founding on August 31, 2005, Georgetown University in Qatar (GU-Q) is a campus of Georgetown University which is a private Jesuit research university and the oldest Catholic institution of higher education in the United States. Georgetown University is the USA's first federally chartered university. How could Georgetown University in Qatar not be considered Western?
@@mohamedeljallouli4726 mamluks weren't the only kind of slaves, there were everything from eunichs who had undergone full penectomy to serve as guards in the harems of the various caliphates to sex slavery of woman , so dont say mamluks as the only examples of islamic slavery , also what they did to europe through the devisrme system was equally as vile and disgusting.
First, return their stolen values that your ancestors stole from their country so you can live in prosperity and they live in poverty and stop fu*king up their countries and stop tripling their democracy! and then change your countries law of "democracy" and all that sweet values and don't fkn call youself the free world! also deport all the immigrants that your economy is standing on, including the pakistani Doctor, the filipino nurse who treat and take care of you, and the chinese phone producers, indian IT specialist who fixes your laptop that you are bragging its your invention.
@@akeel6328 I think you wrongly assumed that they shouted out to him because he is brave, when it's in fact because they agree with his message and him being brave is also true. Now you are just being a Nazi because you agree with his ideas. Or do you actually believe in Nazi ideology?
Wow I don't know how Constantine even managed to wade through those convoluted statements/babble definitely not questions. Such a one sided audience but that was to be expected. I really loved when the woman out the front said....what is woke...did anyone else think, just look in a mirror. She was the epitome of woke babble. I really appreciated the calm, woman who was hosting. She did an amazing job.
What a shameful display of propaganda trying to look open-minded but showing its true colours. Kudos Kisin and the guy left of the Al-Jazeera "journalist"!!
All the best of the West is based on the Judeo- Christian tradition. All that is worst are modernist ideas that rejected this tradition. For example, the declaration of Human Rights is based on Judeo Christian values. We don’t recognize it because we are immersed in it, and these ideas are so ingrained in society that we take them for granted. That is why they have been adopted by most of the world, and those who haven’t … just look at them. Islam has given nothing of the kind to the world… ok number & algebra, but certainly not at the same level of the impact of a 3000 year long tradition of human dignity.
Interestingly just like many countries, the powerful Ottoman Empire was involved in trading African slaves. However Turkey has almost no black population today. The reason for this is that the Ottomans castrated black slaves preventing them from having children and many of these slaves died as a result of the surgery.
@@defectiveresistor The Western certainly practiced slavery for many years, but it also ended slavery where it could. Some of the most prolific places of slavery today continue in the muslim world... Sudan, Afghanistan with sex boys etc. I'm not sure how acurate this is as I"m not sure how Turkiye made it onto this list, "The latest Global Slavery Index, produced by human rights group Walk Free, reveals the 10 countries with the highest prevalence of modern slavery are North Korea, Eritrea, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Türkiye, Tajikistan, United Arab Emirates, Russia, Afghanistan, and Kuwait."
@@brokenSnakeIt's well documented, no need to lie. The other guy isn't right either, slaves that worked in the Palaces and other specialised roles were castrated. This happened to 5-10% of all slaves however and isn't why there isn't a large black population in Turkey today. They either intermarried or left for somewhere more welcoming
@@rafatchowdhury9819 whatt resources, you mean oil ? Come on it would have been better if you said us had other intrest in the middle east including oil but to say its solely for oil is way too reductive and has been propagated since 2003 invasion of iraq when nothing of that sort happened.
@@rafatchowdhury9819 stop blaming the west from everything, your Arab leaders treat their people poor without even the west touch Arab nations. Admit it, middle east is suck, the only good thing there is oil
That's normal for them. I know a few who boycotted Coke during the Iraq war and called USA the great Satan and then suddenly emigrated to Canada after living in UAE for some time. Hypocrites.
At 44:20 Steve Clemens did everybody dirty. He interrupted Kisin's quite focused and covering answer on slavery, and went on an emotional demagogic rant to placate irrationality and raise sophism to a virtue. Clemens failed at that, and immigrants deserve better representatives than such grovel. Because Clemens cited a list of all the civic respect he lacked in answering the actual question. Listen to it again!
What a terrible debate - the moderator is simply awful, except for Konstantin none of the other worthies on stage are actually answering any of the points. The students look like they have learnt all the social justice vocabulary by rote which they sprinkle along with their pro Islamist outrage. There are no cogent arguments made by the students or 2 of the speakers. Konstantin is the only one who seems to have come for the debate. Everyone else is in love with the sound of their own voices
@@mohamedeljallouli4726 Did you actually hear the discussions? They are all over the place, no one is completing or explaining the points they're making. It doesn't matter if I agree or disagree ideologically, the debate and the participants were sub par regardless of ideological position. Konstantin was actually trying to answer a few questions and at least making cogent points.
@@mohamedeljallouli4726 What truths are you even referring to ? because as far as I could see no one answered Kostatines question of: where does it work better ?
I would love the majority of these people speak critically about The Middle East and Islam then see how fast they come to appreciate being in the West. Hijabs & other veils worn by women here, is pretty ironic talking bout the West & freedom of Speech 😂
@@yj9032that's unbelievable but talking to trees, splitting the moon in half and putting it back together, pissing from your fingertips and flying to heaven on a horse is totally sound logic
This is not a free speech debate, it's an ICJ mock trial against Israel. And a pretty bad one as there were no opposing views besides Konstantin. I guess that's exactly what we needed to know about free speech in Qatar. And all these passionate free speech lovers in the room reminded me a joke that we had back then in the USSR about a Russian and an American who are comparing free speech in their countries. I can go to the White House and say that Reagan is fool, says the American. Not impressive at all, says the Russian, as I can go to the Red Square and say that Reagan is fool, too!
Please, you have a voice... here is the chance to give your "opposing" view. One thing true: it's good to gather and talk, especially with differing takes. It's healthy. Now one has to agree with all, no one has to take one side.... onward together.
@@unknownknowable Do you live in israel? How do you define democracy that you believe israel isn't one? A hollow claim without an actual argument is a sad excuse to promote bias.
😂 so invasion, sanctions, coups...and the constant rhetoric of human rights...not boring to bash the west at all. If YOU don't want immigrants to come...YOU make it stop!
@@bigmadbad Why is the onus on us to sort it out and not the people native to those regions? Particularly if The West isn't responsible for global justice?
Starting with 'Israel/Palestine' is not a great way to start a discussion on narrative building. Israel is an sovereign country; the Palestinian Territories will be, but are a different entity. The paranoid hypocritical criticism of Western Media by a Qatari funded organisation, which also funds Al Jazeera, which is guilty of at least as aggressive narrative building. As some of the young people pointed out, 'The West' is not a singular thing; it is diverse countries with diverse histories that share certain values. Of course many countries have not always lived up to their highest standards, but most seek to and are inherently reforming increasing individual rights and protections. The idea that 'global justice' can be attained in any universal or communal way is nonsense. Justice can only be attained by indivudal countries providing it to their populations. The world can collectively try to facilitate this but neither war nor charity/reparations will realise it. The reductive 'decolonisation' analysis is, as the young people identfied, entirely flawed. I suspect the panelis knew this too hence he dissmissive sneering responses. As someone who has lived on three continents in the West and 'global South', in democracies and under Communists, I know that there is no homogeny in the world and that narratives are at least as biased and manipulative in Qatar, Russia and China as well as in the room this debate took part in as the words 'genocide' are predictably misused. The comic part of a debate on free speech criticising the West is that not a single country in the so-called 'global South' is notable for anything like the freedoms of expression that Western liberal democracies allow.
Sheer anger against the West for their narrative on Gaza but absolute indifference to the plight of Uighars. Where are the protests against China? This is the case with Darfuris, too.
@@salmivec Why not if it highlights bias, hypocrisy and inconsistency? Inconsistency makes you look non-serious, untrustworthy and therefore not worth listening to.
The millions of extremely poor Moslem Rohingya's going through hell in Myanmar and who were forced out of Bangladesh are never mentioned by other Moslems.
2023 World Press Freedom Index by Reporters without borders, "Last in the regional ranking, the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) continues to be the world’s most dangerous region for journalists, with a situation classified as “very bad” in more than half of its countries."
The complaint at 21:40 about Abu-Sittah’s ban is misleading. He was not “banned” on a whim, he was refused entry at the event because the events organiser, Abu-Sittah’s uncle, who has also explicit pro-Hamas views, had been previously banned entry in Germany.
Abu Sittah is also an explicit supporter of terrorism, having praised Ahmad Jarrar and Maher al-Yamani. A deeply compromised figure, Germany have enough problems with extremism without letting this kind of figure in to their country.
Sorry but this is so biased it’s laughable. Only Konstantin speaks for the west and the rest we’re almost all anti Israel mostly. The word genocide in Gaza was thrown around and never challenged. The Islamic bias here is clearly evident and no matter of eloquent speech can camouflage it. I love how the west is criticized but any comparisons were totally ignored. These people ARE IN THE WEST! By actually speaking English and being in the UK where most seem to reside they make the argument for the western values. Who in this world emigrates from the west to the Middle East for instance? I don’t hear about boatloads of people landing on the shores or Qatar etc.. is there west perfect? No. However the system strives for much better ideals and quality of freedoms than any other civilization. The reason they criticize it is because of Islam. Islam sees the west as its only threat right now. It wants to turn the west into a Muslim culture with Muslim laws. This is what I believe is at the bottom of the current problem in the world. Ideologies ultimately try and take all power. That is the nature of an ideology and Islam has some of the worst ideas in existence today. This is a clash of civilizations and nothing else.
What you call them is irrelevant, they are still calling out the hypocrisy of the west. And yes, the situation regarding free speech is worse elsewhere.
48:27 why African America rather than just American? And who specifically do you blame? What do you propose? Who would have done a better job? The African themselves?
They basically to a Muslim group of people who all agree on everything that free speech means talking about Palestine , they are the biggest driver of a narrative , when in fact free speech means being able to talk against your own government and against the most popular religion in once country and not face consequences from the government, and that's something we have in the west and now one els has
Fatima Bhutto who proudly wears the Bhutto name unironically talking about the "West" while being the scion of a family whose patriarch ZA Bhutto was involved on one of the largest Genocides in the 20th Century ie Bangladesh 1971 is so infuriating.
Was this debate arranged in Qatar or where? I started wondering why most of the people in the debate appeared to be muslims, and other western minorities. A debate in Qatar where predominantly muslims argue that western media is too... western? And that Israel blocked Al-Jazeera in their country? Shouldn't they be discussing about e.g. the lack of diversity in Al-Jazeera's news and other Middle-East media, e.g. no pro-Israel articles anywhere defending Israel's right to exist and fight for its security against Hamas?
Al Jazeera is state-backed, meaning they literally aren't allowed to admit that Israel exists. In their reporting they refer to Israel as "the occupied land" and label hamas as "the resistance". It's a propaganda machine just like sky news arabia in the United Emirates.
1:05:00 onwards, Kisin's response; The people cringing in the background failing to take in the facts of history. The west is the winner of the last big war, the cold war. USSR and the communists lost. Before that it was Germany, China (against Japanese), untold many tribes in Africa (Bantu expansion), all the people between Europe and Mongolia during Mongol and Hun invasions. Now also US lost in Afganistan, and the country is run by people who reconquered it, the Taliban. Why are you cringing? Konstantin is making a devilishly inconvenient point. Let's us remember that Konstantin is one of those losers, his father lost everything in USSR (loser of a global information age conquest) and moved to UK. He is an immigrant, and a loser. This point is not that Konstatin is winning. Hell, I'm a loser for the last two wars ended in a loss. I was conquered by the West, and therefore I'm well off. Colonialism is how we are. Brits just were the best at it. And now we cry in 'inglish about it.
"Global justice" no such thing, or are you going to start bleating about 'global majority' next? There is only Justice, not social or global or any other thing, just Justice. >"Losers complain about being losers" B A S E D 👌🏿👌🏿👌🏿 😂😂😂
Every person that spoke agreed with each other except for Konstantine. I'm amazed at how a "debate" could go for an hour when it is 1 v however many, this was no true debate next time bring some more diverse thinkers on
The West has been good and been bad. It has been bad for a variety of different things, but so has everywhere else. The values of 'individual freedom', 'human rights' and 'property rights', to the extent that the West upholds, (it isn't perfect) compared to all other civilisational possibilities still means that Western global hegemony is still preferable to Global hegemony under any other civilisational authority ie. Arab/Muslim, Russian, Chinese, Indian, African and so on. The demands on the human condition under any other none Western hegemonic system would innately require deference or acquiescence to, a set of rules, systems, beliefs, cultural norms, circumstances etc that would be more detrimental and restrictive to a persons actual agency and individual autonomy. Until a civilisation widens the scope of liberty instead of narrowing it, then the West needs to maintain it's leadership role or at least protect itself and uphold it's values within it's own territories resolutely, even if it means -as a last resort- shutting down enemies within, especially where freedom of speech is being used against the West as a divisive tool to infiltrate and break down society.
They do know that to report from within Gaza you have to get permission from Hamas and be escorted and accountable to them right? In Israel you have to seek the approval of the Israeli to report but freedom of the free is far lore robust than in Gaza by any metric
I wish someone had asked how the students on stage weren't asked about the terrible situation their poor Rohingya cousins now in Myanmar are treated. Why aren't they supporting them?
Generally a useful & informative debate👍but membership of stage audience is unballanced - huge skew to muslim participants - UK student population is poorly represented - those on the RHS. Why hold a Doha Debate on this topic in the UK but not represent the diversiry of UK population & viewpoints? The UK does have a significant muslim population but not as represented here. Is the idea to be seen to bash The West in their own back yard? but not listen what they have to say on the matter? Also, allowing the unchallenged use of the serious legal term 'genocide' wrt the Gaza conflict is irresponsible & sloppy - both sides accuse the other of this but it has not been legallyvproven either way.
I notice that they have all come to the west to be educated and to live. Wonder what that is all about? Don't see any of them trying to fix the non-western input say in the gulf or Vietnam or Albania. Maybe they are trying to fix the wrong problem.
Talking about propaganda..Tha albanian girl talks as albanians is always the victims.. First of all they were nazist collaboratiors and before that the were in the ottman army and killed lots and lots of ppl..
After listening to this conversation a perfect example I can think of to describe west is this . I am sure a lot of people must have seen this popular show FRIENDS There’s this character called Monica . Her character is a neat freak she loves to clean she is very compulsive and strictly organized.play everything by the rule. And this is the impression all of her friends and family has over them about her . Until one day Monica’s husband chandler realizes there’s this closet in their house that always stays locked and she never let anyone open it . He gets very suspicious and one day in her absence he decides to open that closet and he couldn’t believe what he sees . 😳 Turns out Monica isn’t that clean freak and organized as she pretends to be 😏. I think the world has the same sentiments as chandler . We also found out west isn’t the same as it pretends to be.😳 Anyone agrees?😅
Why does it feel like their entire conversation and examples are all about the Gaza and Israel when the topic is free speech? And if so, go all the way out and speak about the Al Jazeera journalists practicing during October 7th. And if some of them are going to mention the loss in coverage for Sudan even though I believe there never was enough focus on that. Why blaming the West for it? The West isn't the one protesting with "all eyes on palestine" like there is no other conflict with casualties. Where is the responsibility?
It baffles me that they all keep moaning about the talk about TikTok being banned, have they no idea about censorship in countries like Afghanistan, Iran, China Russia.
@@canucksaramto group of people who who accidentally have the same religion, it’s the definition of bigotry You are an ignorant person who only see his own race superior as usual and we know exactly what race behave in such a way: White supremacy.
Britain finally paid its debt in full for ending slavery was in 2015. Every British tax payer has paid to end the slave trade. Gordon of Khartoum was in Sudan to end slavery there. When he was beheaded for trying to end slavery there, he was replaced by Winston Churchill, who continued to end the Sudanese slave trade.
@@brokenSnake Because Britain and north/west Europe is protestant and secular. But due to immigration areas are turning fundamentalist muslim. Which sad to see for someone who growing up always thought that religion in the west was dying and that by the time im old religion would be dead, but now i see that by the time im old im going to live under sharia.
The victimhood in the room is over the brim.
free palestine
@@AC-mp7cx ok
@@AC-mp7cxfrom Hamas
@@altate2544 from idf
I agree. The whining white guy saying the British were the ones who ended slavery was unreal. And your whining comment is the cherry on top. Pull yourselves up by your socks and work hard, stop blaming brown people.
The on stage audience is dripping with privilege afforded by western economies, education, technology, and freedom of thought.
And you're dripping in privilege afforded by the exploitation of the global South by the global North. You set up neo colonial exploitative relationships with the global South and then claim that they cant progress the way the West had done. Britain couldn't even deal with the EU making some of their rules and royally shot themselves in the foot with brexit but you expect poor developing countries to have their entire lives dictated by the West. Unbelievable
The incredible irony of some of the people in this debate is; these people are living, working and studying in parts of the world they don’t believe in. The hypocrisy is bewildering.
NONE of them deserve Western freedom. Meanwhile we are looking forward to the episode from Qatar, criticizing Islam. When is that out?!
@@PoliticalRegality Never. Islam is Arab Imperialism.
Yes just like how the West is happy to create and prop up dictatorship after dictatorship while also calling for human rights and free speech. The irony here is you're arguing for free speech and then start crying when brown people in the video use free speech.
Now go hold this same debate in an Arab country. We'll wait to see how that goes.
I wanna see this youngsters criticising islam in Qatar 🇶🇦
Very good!
And I’d like a convertible Porsche🤷🏻♀️
I wanna see you critising the LGBTQ movement or criticising Judism!!
@@OMAR-br9ui I have no problem criticizing LGBTQ+ extremism, but I support Judaism. I do think Netanyahu doesn't have a post war agenda and he needs to be on trial for corruption. However the Arab world problems go on and on always blaming others for their problems. At least UAE, Bahrain, Saudi Arabic, etc. are seeing they need Israel for the long term. Ask yourself how long will it be before any Arab country is truly a democracy?
@@sbaumgartner9848 no, LGBTQ+ and judaism.
not extremism BS or even modern day hit-ler, Netanyahu . we wanna see your Freedom of speech bragging in the FREE DEMOCRATIC WORLD to criticise these two topics, or you know what, just question the the holocaust in public.
Well done Konstantin. You were the only voice of reason in the room.
@@zarawalden 😂😂😂
The lack of diversity of thought within the audience is laughable. This isnt a debate, its a grilling of Western values by attempting to highlight every shortcoming of Western interventions and past actions. Its Muslims and anti-western propagandists vs Konstantin.
The very fact the audience and panel can show such disdain and contempt for the values that gave rise to the society they speak and live in, negates nearly every point and sneer that came from the audience
Agree 100% why dont they leave I feel sorry for them as they are trapped
The fact that they're choosing to live in the West, despite their obvious disdain for Western culture and the people who created it, shows what a joke they are.
Could a gay guy have a platform in Qatar?
Propaganda at its peak! They debate Islamic propaganda as truth.
The same way we discuss Izriols propaganda as truth
@@collinsoconnor5843except that it is truth. Without lies Islam dies.
What exactly is Islamic propaganda there?
Way too much. Like worshipping Al Jazeera while their employees were part of an entire country attack yet calling it "Journalism". Or saying Biden never mentioned the casualties while many people laughed when he said million of Gazans died. Or showing how you change a narrative by changing the words of a headline while at the same time using your own narrative. 😅 And if I can sum it all up, is to make an entire conversation all about Palestine and naming the title free speech. @@aliyum8455
What a hostile environment for Konstantin to express his opinion in! He still comes out as the voice of reason & logic though.
He is a Russian grifter. He should go back to Russia.
Not as hostile as the one he "moderated" with Brie Joy though.
I would love to see a UK sponsored "debate" (it was basically a bunch of people in complete agreement + Konstantin) in Qatar with a roomful of Christians from Western countries complaining about Qatar and the Arab world. That would be just great. Thanks.
They need to know their own history before they start preaching to the west.
How can Middle Eastern people coming to the West or any democratic country demand freedom of speech and expression which they never fought for in their own country?
If anybody think bringing democracy to country is so easy then they should think twice.
Because freedom of speech for them is saying anything they want regardless of it being true or it being said to further their Islamist agenda.
Arabs that have embraced western culture, living in the west so they can critique western culture? This is a south park episode
It's good to criticise the culture that we live in and there is plenty of valid criticisms there and some good questions that were asked.
A lot of viewers seem to be forgetting that 'which culture is better' was never a topic of this discussion and if it was, it'd overwhelmingly be the western ones even with their faults.
The biggest fault here is the question "Are Western narratives promoting global justice?" because western cultures are made of many different countries and you can find each and every view expressed in each of these countries. They seemed to be trying to answer different questions
@@Posts_Commentsit’s good to criticise the culture - yes
But can you imagine how does it sound for British ears?
Britain ended slavery, is the leading country regards the human rights and might be one of the best countries to live in. In this country is massively getting criticised by
1) black people who are blaming UK (forgetting that UK actually was first country what did open the gates of freedom)
2) Islam population which failed to create a peaceful country in its on fully Islamic country - do not want integrate and blame UK for everything they can
3) and all the others what simply hates any government
Can you imagine how English people are actually seeing this? They think - why the hell I am doing good, opening my doors if you come, shit here and later criticise me?
@@aigoaizporietis9275 I am native English. I agree with every single point you raised passionately. I'm very angry with how this country is treated by its own leaders, its degredation in nearly every aspect, the hostility I see online increasing toward the UK, the damage being done to our culture importing other cultures that are generally hostile to our own, I'm with you through and through.
1) I really wish that was covered more and, the fact they tried to speak over him was disgusting. The Empire should absolutely be celebrated for this unprecedented achievement and I think it should be made a national holiday in many countries.
2) 3) I agree when he says we should compare the west to others, but it's not what the question was.
The question was "Are Western narratives promoting global justice?", the answer is of course a yes and a no. The guy at 13:40 really did show how silly the question was.
We can give all the good that we like, and they give all the bad that they like and both will still be valid, but the negative things they brought up are important to cover.
Sadly It's a loaded question and we know what the consensus is since the majority there are seemingly anti-western and after a quick glance at dozens of their video titles, I found much critisizing the west but non against arab or muslim cultures.
@@Posts_Comments the answer
Western narratives are the ones which are the CLOSEST to promoting global justice.
There is no other place in the world where you can do things, what you are allowed to do in West (freedom wise)
Example
What is the cheapest price (in this analogy the closest in providing global justice)
100$ or 200$ or 50$
50$ is the smallest amount and this is the closest to the 0. Same is the west. It is not ideal but there is no better place to show us, how it should be, the west is the best place at the moment
@@aigoaizporietis9275 I agree but you're ignoring the question. The question doesn't include relation to other groups, it's solely about the west.
Kisin held a mirror up to the panel's and audience's ignorance, hatred and bigotry. And they hated it.
These kids are too young and slow on their feet. All of Kisin's arguments are easily deconstructed as they're false equivalencies, straw man, logical fallacies etc. Take that Usain Bolt thing he pulled off like a fifth grader. So if you don't like it that you're not having free speech here when criticizing Israel, just move because we are in war of information and we have to fight back? And no, US did not restrict the flow of info during cold war the way they're doing now while going after RT. Nixon as VP debated Khrushchev and it was televised in US. Singling that 1835 Britain's move as ending slavery is dishonest cherry picking, because what happened after that (care to compare slavery caused by west at that point in time to other, and which other slavery did it end, and which ended on its own, which continued to serve their interests etc. Otherwise it's a PR stunt bringing that up)? There is slavery all around the world right know that UK is complicit in, one way or another. Dude is just weak all around. He's a youtuber like destiny, farming engagement. If he was serious at all, he would take time to study literature confronting views he takes for granted (like those on clash of civilization he and Douglas take, widely criticized by far more established serious academics and researchers). These Brits are cheap illiterate knock offs of Christopher Hitchens and your falling for their bs because it comforts your bias.
Very true. Kisin arguments are very thought provoking and they were tied in knots when asked to name any better place to live in than the West which nobody could answer.
The fact he thinks there’s more free speech in Qatar than in the UK tells you everything
Next week's Doha Debate sounds more interesting:
"Do gay people, non-muslims and apostates have a fun time in Islamic countries?"
Good luck to any "free speech absolutists" living in those places.
Cry some more 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
The moderator's comparison between mass immigration and colonialism was very revealing.
The part I don't get about Muslim critics of the west is that they are emotionally passionate about calling out the west for what it doesn't do, yet they never compare Muslim states to the west and acknowledges just how much more fairness, peace, freedom and justice exists in the West. I believe they are simply frustrated that their states do so poorly, and opt to palm this off as being due to western oppression, when sure that is a limited factor, but it is mostly the incompetence, nepotism and corruption = overall clunkiness of their Muslim systems, that is to blame.
Nah you ignore the fact that the west are the ones who forcing dictatorships on the Muslim countries every Muslim dictatorship is supported by the west for example American has treaty with Saudi family to guarantees security. So if we Arabians in Arabia if we want to get rid of the Saudi family and fix our country the America military will come to fight on behalf of the Saudi family. Were not frustrated with ourselves we are frustrated with you telling us women right and children rights because when moment of truth, come you turn your back on everything you claim to believe in.
Plus you don’t have freedom. You are controlled by your private sector. Your private sector are the one who decide what is right and what is wrong in your society. Your private sector Are the ones who forcing dictatorship on us
@@BenAdam1937 Yes all Muslims should boycott the West. Leave the West in droves and life will become so much better for everyone else in the West.
Islam and peace are an oxymoron
@@ceooflonelinessinc.267 Islam means submission to God. The philosophy is that when one submits to God(Truth) one finds true Peace (inner and outer wholesome Peace)
Islam prohibits basic human rights. Prohibiting basic human rights is the opposite of peacefull.
@@ceooflonelinessinc.267 that's not true. Islam encourages that those who believe treat one another with dignity and respect EVEN if the person of a disbeliever there should be fairness and ethics.
@@gbaili Islam hates all non believers, I have witnessed it personally and being told the same by ex Muslims.
@@gbaili That's a lie. Let's expose your lie. Koran 5:32 - Tell me what is considered 'Corruption among the Earth/land'? Don't lie, I will expose your lie.
The next verse, Koran 5:33, "Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment," - Sahih International
Koran 5:51 - "O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." - Sahih International
Koran 5:38 - "[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they earned [i.e., committed] as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." - Sahih International
Nice try though.
I’m all for holding ourselves in the west accountable. But I also noted how not one person in the audience or on the panel could say where it was being done better in response to Konstantin’s question. I’d also add that every single member of that audience is non-‘Western’ but has chosen Western education to develop their intellects, and is following the Western tradition of open debate for this discussion. I guess we’re doing something right.
Of course western education is the best among the narratives.
Qataris taking the moral high ground on anything is hilarious 😆
yeah
May I ask why ??
@@techhawk1543 well for one the Hamas leadership and Ismail Haniye live next door to Al-Jazira's headquarters, in downtown Qatar.
At least they don't commit genocide as we speak.
The most hilarious thing is the glorification of Al Jazeera in this conversation. Al Jazeera is just the halal NYT. Period.
I don't think Al Jazeera is 100% credible but it is at least more credible than the whole major western media outlets combined. Period.
Al Jazeera is as creditable as the state-run media in Russia, China or North Korea 😂
@@ronitdey6613 Aljazeera might not be 100% credible, but it’s certainly more credible than the major western news outlets combined. Period.
If west was so awful, the question then is why do so many other nationals migrate to west? And not the other way around. That in itself indicates that for many life is more worth living in the west rather than where they came from, for whatever their reason might be.
The West is nice to live in, this is not the debate here, the problem is what the US and allies are doing to other countries.
In western country you/media can criticize Govt or president.
But in Islamic country do you /media have Right to criticize pm specially in Qatar.
Assange would like a word.
I wish there were more Pro-Western people in the audience. I love how they did not answer the question, "other than the west, where would you go criticize the government and the dominant religion?".
This entire "debate" is laughable. Firstly, it's because Konstantin is the only sole dissent here. Secondly, it's ironic to see a bunch of Muslim Hamas sympathisers who, having enjoyed the freedom and privileges of the West's tolerance of free speech and religion, bash the West about it's "erosion" of free speech IN England. And third, they are literally whining about losing free speech in the sense that they cannot trash talk Israel and Jews in the West. If I try to support Israel in any Middle Eastern countries, I'll be dead.
Which brings to another point unrelated to this debate-the UK government has failed miserably in its immigration policies by allowing ideas like this to fester in British towns and cities, and bringing in immigrants uncontrollably who do not share Western, Judeo-Christian values. Very sad.
They oppose Israel not necessarily pro hanas
Truth!!!!!
@@JackInABeanstalk98they won't condemn it
@@madelinemardigan3386 it’s harmful to
Looking forward to the episode from Qatar, criticizing Islam. When is that out?!
Its never happening.
Looking forward to the episode from Triggernometry, criticizing Israel. When is that out?!
@@rafatchowdhury9819 they've actually had several.
@@duckinaruck theyve hosted anti- Israel guests, but the hosts themselves have always defended their masters (Israel)
@rafatchowdhury9819 Actually, they've stayed fairly neutral and have let people speak when asking questions. They're trying to find the truth out if a very complicated conflict.
This debate has a DIVERSITY issue! Where are the voices from the majority of white faces in the UK. How dare you lecture us on DEI, then blatantly disregard the principle when hosting this debate. YOU HYPOCRITES!
And if “Doha debates” want to talk about restrictive free speech, slavery and hypocrisy…. Qatar shouldn’t be speaking on this issue at all😂😂😂😂 they are a joke and we all know it
Remember when they built the World Cup stadiums with slave labour lol
As a Bangladeshi i can confirm what you are saying. in fact free speech does not exist in most Asian countries. Also i want to say that Islam tells to abolish slavery but the so called Muslims don't
Palestinian activists spewing propaganda is not a discussion
correct lol
This format was a poor choice. There are 2 people who speak in this debate on behalf of the west and one apologist for the west. The rest of the speakers and attendees are there to speak against the west. That being said, a productive conversation could have been held between the three main speakers. The moderator kept cutting them off and bouncing from undereducated student to undereducated student and avoided letting the debate actually reach a point where substance could have been achieved.
What I dislike about this is, Konstantin is almost one man vs everyone else and everyone are give equal times. meaning he get 10 mins of questions and 1 mins to answer.
Konstantin does a really great job considering.. I have to applaud him..
Key point : where can people freely critize their government & the dominant religion ?
USA
@@Joshua_Froschauer the West in general
Im really surprised that these Arab men and woman are so concern of Democracy of the west ,where their Religion, country, society is not even free.
Where Konstantin is honest about the flaws of the west.
Blonde men are from the Divine 🇩🇪
All the Muslim intellectuals educated in western universities.
Odd.
And we depend heavily on their resource. Very odd huh
Since when is Georgetown University in Qatar a "western university"?
@@DaveDEF82 Since its founding on August 31, 2005, Georgetown University in Qatar (GU-Q) is a campus of Georgetown University which is a private Jesuit research university and the oldest Catholic institution of higher education in the United States. Georgetown University is the USA's first federally chartered university.
How could Georgetown University in Qatar not be considered Western?
@@DaveDEF82 Yes Georgetown University in Qatar is one of six prestigious American research universities situated in Doha’s Education City,
@@tecumseh4095 Qatar has a very mature O&G production rate (stable for appox a decade) and a steady supply to the global market. What's your point?
Amazing to hear Muslims and Arabs feign distress over slavery !! I have sent all now 😅😅😅
Slave in the islamic empire, where not slaves in the west, the mamluks
@@mohamedeljallouli4726 mamluks weren't the only kind of slaves, there were everything from eunichs who had undergone full penectomy to serve as guards in the harems of the various caliphates to sex slavery of woman , so dont say mamluks as the only examples of islamic slavery , also what they did to europe through the devisrme system was equally as vile and disgusting.
Oh, yeah. If you don't like the west, leave. It would be the best for everyone
agree
First, return their stolen values that your ancestors stole from their country so you can live in prosperity and they live in poverty and stop fu*king up their countries and stop tripling their democracy! and then change your countries law of "democracy" and all that sweet values and don't fkn call youself the free world! also deport all the immigrants that your economy is standing on, including the pakistani Doctor, the filipino nurse who treat and take care of you, and the chinese phone producers, indian IT specialist who fixes your laptop that you are bragging its your invention.
@@madelinemardigan3386 it goes both ways. Don’t fkn come to the east to steal their resources in the name of “freedom or democracy defenders” .. you 🤡
This is not a debate it’s propaganda 😅
Shout out to Konstantin , this guy is brave
Shoutout to Hitler. Hitler was brave.
@@akeel6328 I think you wrongly assumed that they shouted out to him because he is brave, when it's in fact because they agree with his message and him being brave is also true.
Now you are just being a Nazi because you agree with his ideas. Or do you actually believe in Nazi ideology?
Wow I don't know how Constantine even managed to wade through those convoluted statements/babble definitely not questions. Such a one sided audience but that was to be expected. I really loved when the woman out the front said....what is woke...did anyone else think, just look in a mirror. She was the epitome of woke babble. I really appreciated the calm, woman who was hosting. She did an amazing job.
What a shameful display of propaganda trying to look open-minded but showing its true colours. Kudos Kisin and the guy left of the Al-Jazeera "journalist"!!
Konstantin Kisin is the only one here with any intelligence !
Bright minds of Bradford! So delusional it's sad and scary...
3 adults in a room full of toddlers. But only one adult makes any sense.
Funny
Yes, Konstantin.
The first guy from the audience was actually quite intelligent. I liked him and the way he gave pushback!
Strange “debate”. More like an echo chamber.
1 hour and 30 minutes and no one mentioned ham ass....but sure lets trust the unbiased arab historian.....
This is a nice one way pro Palestinian debate. That’s sarcasm by the way.
All the best of the West is based on the Judeo- Christian tradition.
All that is worst are modernist ideas that rejected this tradition.
For example, the declaration of Human Rights is based on Judeo Christian values.
We don’t recognize it because we are immersed in it, and these ideas are so ingrained in society that we take them for granted. That is why they have been adopted by most of the world, and those who haven’t … just look at them.
Islam has given nothing of the kind to the world… ok number & algebra, but certainly not at the same level of the impact of a 3000 year long tradition of human dignity.
WEST invented gays
@@madonnasfangirl9631
Modernism. That is a deformation of the West, that came when it discarded JudeoChristianity.
Its just christianity. No judeo, thats propaganda
@@wtice4632 indeed! It was Christianity!
@@JullianRoman just christian values. Not judeo. Thats propaganda.
Interestingly just like many countries, the powerful Ottoman Empire was involved in trading African slaves. However Turkey has almost no black population today. The reason for this is that the Ottomans castrated black slaves preventing them from having children and many of these slaves died as a result of the surgery.
Ottomans never castrated slaves. The slaves were castrated by countries selling them.
One thing we can agree on is that all cases of this practice never came from the western world. But hey ho we are the bad ones.
@@defectiveresistor The Western certainly practiced slavery for many years, but it also ended slavery where it could. Some of the most prolific places of slavery today continue in the muslim world... Sudan, Afghanistan with sex boys etc. I'm not sure how acurate this is as I"m not sure how Turkiye made it onto this list, "The latest Global Slavery Index, produced by human rights group Walk Free, reveals the 10 countries with the highest prevalence of modern slavery are North Korea, Eritrea, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Türkiye, Tajikistan, United Arab Emirates, Russia, Afghanistan, and Kuwait."
@@brokenSnakeIt's well documented, no need to lie. The other guy isn't right either, slaves that worked in the Palaces and other specialised roles were castrated. This happened to 5-10% of all slaves however and isn't why there isn't a large black population in Turkey today. They either intermarried or left for somewhere more welcoming
I've heard some very interesting things about Fatima Bhutto's background in Pakistan. If true, her credibility on here is crepe paper thin.
Go to you Middle East and Asian countries you will be ashamed of how human are treated
yes because everytime the West gets inolved in the political conflicts in the Middle East, good things happen.
@@rafatchowdhury9819 And when they don't get involved even worse things happen....
@@stokey24 western powers don’t get involved in the Middle East to help the people, they get involved to get better access to resources.
@@rafatchowdhury9819 whatt resources, you mean oil ? Come on it would have been better if you said us had other intrest in the middle east including oil but to say its solely for oil is way too reductive and has been propagated since 2003 invasion of iraq when nothing of that sort happened.
@@rafatchowdhury9819 stop blaming the west from everything, your Arab leaders treat their people poor without even the west touch Arab nations. Admit it, middle east is suck, the only good thing there is oil
too much lies and false Narrative by the Muslims in this debate wow
That's normal for them. I know a few who boycotted Coke during the Iraq war and called USA the great Satan and then suddenly emigrated to Canada after living in UAE for some time. Hypocrites.
If your countries are so much better then why did you leave? This is the United Kingdom, like it or leave!
They love their country so much but they don't want to come back to their land. They are just hypocrites.
I was keen to watch this, however the first speaker perpetuated the genocide nonsense and I just couldn't do it.
I made it all the way through this struggle session of ill informed kids but had a lasting sense of irritability 😂
At 44:20 Steve Clemens did everybody dirty. He interrupted Kisin's quite focused and covering answer on slavery, and went on an emotional demagogic rant to placate irrationality and raise sophism to a virtue. Clemens failed at that, and immigrants deserve better representatives than such grovel. Because Clemens cited a list of all the civic respect he lacked in answering the actual question. Listen to it again!
well he works for al jazeera
What a terrible debate - the moderator is simply awful, except for Konstantin none of the other worthies on stage are actually answering any of the points. The students look like they have learnt all the social justice vocabulary by rote which they sprinkle along with their pro Islamist outrage. There are no cogent arguments made by the students or 2 of the speakers. Konstantin is the only one who seems to have come for the debate. Everyone else is in love with the sound of their own voices
Yeah because you dont like to hear the truth
@@mohamedeljallouli4726 Did you actually hear the discussions? They are all over the place, no one is completing or explaining the points they're making. It doesn't matter if I agree or disagree ideologically, the debate and the participants were sub par regardless of ideological position. Konstantin was actually trying to answer a few questions and at least making cogent points.
@@mohamedeljallouli4726 What truths are you even referring to ? because as far as I could see no one answered Kostatines question of: where does it work better ?
I would love the majority of these people speak critically about The Middle East and Islam then see how fast they come to appreciate being in the West.
Hijabs & other veils worn by women here, is pretty ironic talking bout the West & freedom of Speech 😂
People who believe that a guy turned water into wine 2000 years ago shouldn’t talk about hijabs and veils 😂
The problem is they won't ever appreciate the freedoms they have here, as they've been brought up to believe that Islamic law is a superior system.
@@yj9032that's unbelievable but talking to trees, splitting the moon in half and putting it back together, pissing from your fingertips and flying to heaven on a horse is totally sound logic
Fatima Bhutto reminds me of the female host at the Global Refugee Crisis debate, talking down on Douglas Murray in every way possible.
This is not a free speech debate, it's an ICJ mock trial against Israel. And a pretty bad one as there were no opposing views besides Konstantin. I guess that's exactly what we needed to know about free speech in Qatar. And all these passionate free speech lovers in the room reminded me a joke that we had back then in the USSR about a Russian and an American who are comparing free speech in their countries. I can go to the White House and say that Reagan is fool, says the American. Not impressive at all, says the Russian, as I can go to the Red Square and say that Reagan is fool, too!
agree 100%
Please, you have a voice... here is the chance to give your "opposing" view. One thing true: it's good to gather and talk, especially with differing takes. It's healthy. Now one has to agree with all, no one has to take one side.... onward together.
If you don't love it, LEAVE PLEASE LEAVE, and God bless.
@@unknownknowable
Do you live in israel? How do you define democracy that you believe israel isn't one? A hollow claim without an actual argument is a sad excuse to promote bias.
This west bashing is getting so beyond boring. Don’t like it don’t come. Wed be slot happier.
😂 so invasion, sanctions, coups...and the constant rhetoric of human rights...not boring to bash the west at all. If YOU don't want immigrants to come...YOU make it stop!
They life in qatar smart guy
@@bigmadbad Why is the onus on us to sort it out and not the people native to those regions? Particularly if The West isn't responsible for global justice?
Starting with 'Israel/Palestine' is not a great way to start a discussion on narrative building.
Israel is an sovereign country; the Palestinian Territories will be, but are a different entity.
The paranoid hypocritical criticism of Western Media by a Qatari funded organisation, which also funds Al Jazeera, which is guilty of at least as aggressive narrative building.
As some of the young people pointed out, 'The West' is not a singular thing; it is diverse countries with diverse histories that share certain values. Of course many countries have not always lived up to their highest standards, but most seek to and are inherently reforming increasing individual rights and protections.
The idea that 'global justice' can be attained in any universal or communal way is nonsense. Justice can only be attained by indivudal countries providing it to their populations. The world can collectively try to facilitate this but neither war nor charity/reparations will realise it.
The reductive 'decolonisation' analysis is, as the young people identfied, entirely flawed. I suspect the panelis knew this too hence he dissmissive sneering responses.
As someone who has lived on three continents in the West and 'global South', in democracies and under Communists, I know that there is no homogeny in the world and that narratives are at least as biased and manipulative in Qatar, Russia and China as well as in the room this debate took part in as the words 'genocide' are predictably misused.
The comic part of a debate on free speech criticising the West is that not a single country in the so-called 'global South' is notable for anything like the freedoms of expression that Western liberal democracies allow.
You're absolutely right.
Perfectly expressed. Thank you for saying it much better than I ever could.
Sheer anger against the West for their narrative on Gaza but absolute indifference to the plight of Uighars. Where are the protests against China? This is the case with Darfuris, too.
Whataboutism is not the basis for a serious argument
@@salmivec Why not if it highlights bias, hypocrisy and inconsistency? Inconsistency makes you look non-serious, untrustworthy and therefore not worth listening to.
@@salmivec
Because these Muslims have no argument.
@@Andrew-fy9wu lol
The millions of extremely poor Moslem Rohingya's going through hell in Myanmar and who were forced out of Bangladesh are never mentioned by other Moslems.
These people don't get to lecture us.
What's the point in having a conversation with 57 people? Nothing can really be discussed.
Going into a lions den konstantin 😂
2023 World Press Freedom Index by Reporters without borders, "Last in the regional ranking, the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) continues to be the world’s most dangerous region for journalists, with a situation classified as “very bad” in more than half of its countries."
1 hour and 30 minutes and no one mentioned ham ass....but sure lets trust the unbiased arab historian.....
Fatima Bhutto fed up of the west complaining about immigration but yet there is not one native Britain in the student panel.
The complaint at 21:40 about Abu-Sittah’s ban is misleading. He was not “banned” on a whim, he was refused entry at the event because the events organiser, Abu-Sittah’s uncle, who has also explicit pro-Hamas views, had been previously banned entry in Germany.
Abu Sittah is also an explicit supporter of terrorism, having praised Ahmad Jarrar and Maher al-Yamani. A deeply compromised figure, Germany have enough problems with extremism without letting this kind of figure in to their country.
cap
@@AC-mp7cx no cap, 5min on wikipedia will enlighten you
@@erikonthefloor he was banned because something another person did? oh sweet western justice
“Vot aboot slavery” 😂😂 guy got owned by Konstantine 😂😂😂
But West bad, but racism, but colonialism
Blonde men are from the Divine 🇩🇪
1 hour and 30 minutes and no one mentioned ham ass....but sure lets trust the unbiased arab historian.....
@@gbailiok troll
@@gbaili but slavery, but nazis
As Konstantin said " losers complaining about losing"...
Sorry but this is so biased it’s laughable. Only Konstantin speaks for the west and the rest we’re almost all anti Israel mostly. The word genocide in Gaza was thrown around and never challenged. The Islamic bias here is clearly evident and no matter of eloquent speech can camouflage it. I love how the west is criticized but any comparisons were totally ignored. These people ARE IN THE WEST! By actually speaking English and being in the UK where most seem to reside they make the argument for the western values.
Who in this world emigrates from the west to the Middle East for instance? I don’t hear about boatloads of people landing on the shores or Qatar etc.. is there west perfect? No. However the system strives for much better ideals and quality of freedoms than any other civilization. The reason they criticize it is because of Islam. Islam sees the west as its only threat right now. It wants to turn the west into a Muslim culture with Muslim laws. This is what I believe is at the bottom of the current problem in the world. Ideologies ultimately try and take all power. That is the nature of an ideology and Islam has some of the worst ideas in existence today.
This is a clash of civilizations and nothing else.
No, it’s only young people upset over the hypocrisy of the west, because they are blind regarding the shortcomings of the rest of the world.
@@studiocorax8790
So it is hypocrites calling out hypocrisy?
What you call them is irrelevant, they are still calling out the hypocrisy of the west. And yes, the situation regarding free speech is worse elsewhere.
48:27 why African America rather than just American?
And who specifically do you blame?
What do you propose?
Who would have done a better job? The African themselves?
They basically to a Muslim group of people who all agree on everything that free speech means talking about Palestine , they are the biggest driver of a narrative , when in fact free speech means being able to talk against your own government and against the most popular religion in once country and not face consequences from the government, and that's something we have in the west and now one els has
With this many people it becomes an entire hour of sound bytes and undercooked "opinions" rather than an in depth conversation and response.
“Wokeness is a terrible mind virus”
Constantine is that guy!!
Fatima Bhutto who proudly wears the Bhutto name unironically talking about the "West" while being the scion of a family whose patriarch ZA Bhutto was involved on one of the largest Genocides in the 20th Century ie Bangladesh 1971 is so infuriating.
Was this debate arranged in Qatar or where? I started wondering why most of the people in the debate appeared to be muslims, and other western minorities.
A debate in Qatar where predominantly muslims argue that western media is too... western? And that Israel blocked Al-Jazeera in their country? Shouldn't they be discussing about e.g. the lack of diversity in Al-Jazeera's news and other Middle-East media, e.g. no pro-Israel articles anywhere defending Israel's right to exist and fight for its security against Hamas?
Al Jazeera is state-backed, meaning they literally aren't allowed to admit that Israel exists. In their reporting they refer to Israel as "the occupied land" and label hamas as "the resistance". It's a propaganda machine just like sky news arabia in the United Emirates.
it's in the well known middle eastern country of bradford... Tbf any brit can tell you the muslim "minority" in bradford is... just not a minority
@@bigmanmichael3807 Ok thanks, but why is this called "Doha debates"? Just a coincidence that Doha is the capital of Qatar?
1:05:00 onwards, Kisin's response;
The people cringing in the background failing to take in the facts of history. The west is the winner of the last big war, the cold war. USSR and the communists lost. Before that it was Germany, China (against Japanese), untold many tribes in Africa (Bantu expansion), all the people between Europe and Mongolia during Mongol and Hun invasions. Now also US lost in Afganistan, and the country is run by people who reconquered it, the Taliban.
Why are you cringing? Konstantin is making a devilishly inconvenient point. Let's us remember that Konstantin is one of those losers, his father lost everything in USSR (loser of a global information age conquest) and moved to UK. He is an immigrant, and a loser. This point is not that Konstatin is winning. Hell, I'm a loser for the last two wars ended in a loss. I was conquered by the West, and therefore I'm well off. Colonialism is how we are. Brits just were the best at it. And now we cry in 'inglish about it.
Doha Debates… what topics aren’t allowed in Qatar?
Oh Bradford! He who pays the piper calls the tune.
amusing they talk about a western narative and bar kontantin kisin its all an islamic bias
he's literally there as a guest
"Global justice"
no such thing, or are you going to start bleating about 'global majority' next?
There is only Justice, not social or global or any other thing, just Justice.
>"Losers complain about being losers"
B A S E D 👌🏿👌🏿👌🏿 😂😂😂
Every person that spoke agreed with each other except for Konstantine. I'm amazed at how a "debate" could go for an hour when it is 1 v however many, this was no true debate next time bring some more diverse thinkers on
The West has been good and been bad. It has been bad for a variety of different things, but so has everywhere else. The values of 'individual freedom', 'human rights' and 'property rights', to the extent that the West upholds, (it isn't perfect) compared to all other civilisational possibilities still means that Western global hegemony is still preferable to Global hegemony under any other civilisational authority ie. Arab/Muslim, Russian, Chinese, Indian, African and so on.
The demands on the human condition under any other none Western hegemonic system would innately require deference or acquiescence to, a set of rules, systems, beliefs, cultural norms, circumstances etc that would be more detrimental and restrictive to a persons actual agency and individual autonomy.
Until a civilisation widens the scope of liberty instead of narrowing it, then the West needs to maintain it's leadership role or at least protect itself and uphold it's values within it's own territories resolutely, even if it means -as a last resort- shutting down enemies within, especially where freedom of speech is being used against the West as a divisive tool to infiltrate and break down society.
They do know that to report from within Gaza you have to get permission from Hamas and be escorted and accountable to them right?
In Israel you have to seek the approval of the Israeli to report but freedom of the free is far lore robust than in Gaza by any metric
And you got tha news from CNN?
Just skipping through this for when Konstantin speaks
I wish someone had asked how the students on stage weren't asked about the terrible situation their poor Rohingya cousins now in Myanmar are treated. Why aren't they supporting them?
Their governments' interests would be risked.
Generally a useful & informative debate👍but membership of stage audience is unballanced - huge skew to muslim participants - UK student population is poorly represented - those on the RHS.
Why hold a Doha Debate on this topic in the UK but not represent the diversiry of UK population & viewpoints? The UK does have a significant muslim population but not as represented here.
Is the idea to be seen to bash The West in their own back yard? but not listen what they have to say on the matter?
Also, allowing the unchallenged use of the serious legal term 'genocide' wrt the Gaza conflict is irresponsible & sloppy - both sides accuse the other of this but it has not been legallyvproven either way.
I notice that they have all come to the west to be educated and to live. Wonder what that is all about? Don't see any of them trying to fix the non-western input say in the gulf or Vietnam or Albania. Maybe they are trying to fix the wrong problem.
stop fu*king up their countries first so they don't become refugees, smart kid.
@@OMAR-br9uihow were fucked up and what are they like before 😂?
Talking about propaganda..Tha albanian girl talks as albanians is always the victims.. First of all they were nazist collaboratiors and before that the were in the ottman army and killed lots and lots of ppl..
Yep she lost me with that one playing the victim BLESS
After listening to this conversation a perfect example I can think of to describe west is this . I am sure a lot of people must have seen this popular show FRIENDS There’s this character called Monica . Her character is a neat freak she loves to clean she is very compulsive and strictly organized.play everything by the rule. And this is the impression all of her friends and family has over them about her . Until one day Monica’s husband chandler realizes there’s this closet in their house that always stays locked and she never let anyone open it . He gets very suspicious and one day in her absence he decides to open that closet and he couldn’t believe what he sees . 😳
Turns out Monica isn’t that clean freak and organized as she pretends to be 😏.
I think the world has the same sentiments as chandler . We also found out west isn’t the same as it pretends to be.😳
Anyone agrees?😅
Why does it feel like their entire conversation and examples are all about the Gaza and Israel when the topic is free speech? And if so, go all the way out and speak about the Al Jazeera journalists practicing during October 7th. And if some of them are going to mention the loss in coverage for Sudan even though I believe there never was enough focus on that. Why blaming the West for it? The West isn't the one protesting with "all eyes on palestine" like there is no other conflict with casualties. Where is the responsibility?
Fatma needs to stop flashing the diamonds on her left hand. It distracts from her message.
It baffles me that they all keep moaning about the talk about TikTok being banned, have they no idea about censorship in countries like Afghanistan, Iran, China Russia.
They sure knows about (no) freedom of speech in their own countries. Just look at the women there
The many hijabs speak voluminously.
@@canucksaram you are racist individual
@@OMAR-br9ui Please consult a dictionary. My comment wasn't related to race.
@@canucksaramto group of people who who accidentally have the same religion, it’s the definition of bigotry
You are an ignorant person who only see his own race superior as usual and we know exactly what race behave in such a way: White supremacy.
Britain finally paid its debt in full for ending slavery was in 2015. Every British tax payer has paid to end the slave trade. Gordon of Khartoum was in Sudan to end slavery there. When he was beheaded for trying to end slavery there, he was replaced by Winston Churchill, who continued to end the Sudanese slave trade.
Girl thought free speech meant economic empowerment.
Israel does not allow Western journalists into Gaza ??? Not only false but what about the border that Gaza has with EGYPT ??? Resounding silence !
Israeli government spokesman admitted that they don't let Western journalist into Gaza out of safety concern. Who's lying?
You
@@husnahasancawhat about Egypt NOT letting journalists into Gaza ? Why was that not mentioned ? Egypt is systematically omitted in the Gaza narrative
why do they all dress like that are they in a Moslim country? Real question? It looks like they are in a Moslim country where are they?
they're in Bradford... It's kinda a running joke in the UK that Bradford is a muslim city so it doesn't surprise anyone.
Why does it matter what they wear?
@@brokenSnake Because Britain and north/west Europe is protestant and secular. But due to immigration areas are turning fundamentalist muslim. Which sad to see for someone who growing up always thought that religion in the west was dying and that by the time im old religion would be dead, but now i see that by the time im old im going to live under sharia.