THE PRIMARCHS: Where Are They All NOW? | Warhammer 40k Lore
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2023
- Who will return next? The Primarchs in 40k are a mixed bunch - some are pretty active, some are pretty lazy, and some got lost a long time ago. So where are they all now?
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It's worth noting that the "Omegon" Guilliman killed was likely not the real Primarch Omegon, since Guilliman noted doing so with extreme ease. I think it's both a more interesting narrative and way funnier for one of the twins to still be alive.
Yeah, I mean did you ever take a look at the alpha legion?
The more you think about it the more sense it would make if that was not Omegon
Bro, it’s the Alpha Legion. Of course that wasn’t the real Omegon. Even if it were, it still wouldn’t be him.
I mean can you be really sure that alpharius was killed? Nobody can know for sure
To me, both of them are still alive ine loyal, the other traitor. The alpha and the omega
@@Ahriman_362Alpharius is totally dead, but we can discuss about Omegon
@@pedrokantor7972 but how do we know? Alpharius and omegon were almost legionary size and their legionaries look nearly identical
The first drafts of 40k lore were wild. The Space Marines used to be a kind of penalty legion made from hardened criminals forever welded into their armour until they either die or served their sentence. If this sounds familiar, the concept was discarded by GW and soon reused by Starcraft after a GW storywriter went to work for Blizzard.
Well they kept that concept somewhat for the edge lords
Fun fact Starcraft Marines are better than Adeptus Astartes :D
@@no-nonseplayer6612 Debatable. I´d say it depends on the situation. Starcraft Marines have more than enough firpower to kill an armored Astartes and have a huge advantage in numbers, but in a fight with more or less equal numbers, they would still have a very hard time due to being "just" human and having the inferior armor compared to the current Mk. X or even the post-heresy Mk.III armor patterns of the Astartes
@@no-nonseplayer6612 *yawns*
@@aaronlaughter6471 ? Sc fans are better?
I like the idea that Omegon is waiting to show up on the Loyalist side as a renegade to tip the scales
me too
Imagine one of the lost primarchs then comeback into existence
Sorry guys got lost what been going on ………… oh my not god
I feel like omegon and the emperor of man had a secret plan for this
The main reason the Alpha Legion joined the Traitors was because of the prophecy the Cabal.
The death of the emperor would lead to the death of Chaos.
But the prophecy was proved wrong at the very end when the emperor was mortally wounded instead.
I’m still waiting for the real Alpharius to show after 11K year and be like: ”Hey guys! Sorry I’m late, I’ve been busy with some stuff Father told me to do. So… What’s going on?”
Best Alpharius story arc 10/10
Narrator's voice: This is a lie. Alpharius was busy writing WH40K AO3 crossover fanfics. This, too, is a lie.
@@t-1156 Alpharius, how were you able to deceive Dorne?
Alpharius, removing helmet: It's simple, I am...
Rogal Dorne under helmet: Alpharius
A small bit of clarification, the primarchs were not "sworn to secrecy" about the two missing primarchs, Guilliman and Dorn, in a rare moment in which they agreed on something, had Malcador psychically scour their minds of the names of their brothers, and made them physically unable to speak of them, that's why the traitors also don't speak of them beyond vague mentions, anything else they simply cannot do.
Malcador briefly returns Dorn's memory, and once Dorn remember, he has Malcador scour his mind again, convinced he and Bobby made the right choice.
Granted Lorgar and Magnus at least appear to still have their memories from Magnus’s line when they were talking during the crusade after Lorgar referenced them, “We took an oath to our father never to speak of this, are you planning on breaking it?” (Paraphrase)
My ASSUMPTION is that Dorn and Guiliman went out of their way to ask Malcador to wipe the memories from their minds because it was particularly sad for them for whatever reason and this wasn’t something Malcador came up with on his own to push on the remaining primarchs because if it was a mind wipe of all primarchs, how were both Lorgar and Magnus able to remember that they existed at least.
What’s even weirder is that Guiliman has the table on Macragge with 21 seats for each of his brothers and the emperor and when someone asks about the two blank seats says “you know they aren’t coming back” and he says “yet a place must be marked. That is simply honor” again paraphrase and I’m sorry I don’t have a source but if someone is more knowledgeable feel free to add or correct.
I believe there's a story where a primarch is furious that Malcador erased his memories. When asked Malcador simply replies that it was himself that asked him to erase his memory. The primarch goes "Nah fam you restore those memories right now"
Malcador obliges and after like 30 seconds the primarch goes "Yeah you were right delete that shit again"
So whatever those 2 primarch did must have been so horrible that even their brothers doesn't want to remember it
@@zaer-ezart Yes, that was Dorn like I said
@@DaniMol We all know why 2 of the chapters are lost from a business point of view. But let's focus solely on the lore. What could they have done of SO horrible, of so unbelievably inhuman that their weren't even punished or killed but alt F4ed out of existence by the emperor?
@@zaer-ezartI’ve always thought we lost 1 (possibly both) of the unknown primarchs during or as a result of The Rangdan Xenocide
I'd have put Vulkan in the lazy category. As far as we know, there's no good reason why he can't just show up again
Vulkan simple cannot die. Hes probably stuck somewhere in the universe after the end of the war when he "kinda" sacrifice hinself.
He's actually very much alive. He's just chilling in that very dark corner of the room
Konrad Curze face him PTSD
@@ArantyrDarkhand untue he can die it tkase shit loads of deaths but he can actually die permanently
@@no-nonseplayer6612Theres only 2 things that kill perpetuals. Its the emperor and weapons made with Fulgrite.
I have always considered Horus the only truly dead primarc as his was the only one who’s soul was obliterated
Even Horus wasn't permakilled. Fabius bile cloned him
@@Coproquim The clone was just a cloned body it didn't Horus super special warp sauce soul and was weak.
Fun fact didn’t the chaos gods hold on to shreds of Horus’ soul?
@@creolekolbytv1252
Don't think so , the latter HH novels have horus with his full soul, or so he himself claims, about to fight the Emperor and the Emperor obliterating him so hard the Gods fled.
@@Coproquim stop coping. Just cause he's dead doesn't mean you can't make a clone of him, Abaddon and every other living Son of Horus-turned-Black Legionary have Horus' gene-markers which is enough for Fabius Bile to create a clone of him. Horus is beyond dead, both his body and soul were obliterated
I believe Rogal Dorn is still alive, but...disarmed at the moment. He probably needs a hand.
He could use one of his late brother and become one who talks with his silvery new hand
@@JKRavenBlood That will be a handful.
Afaik primarchs can regrow entire limbs within hours, if he's alive he's gonna be fine somehow
@@marcingolab6227 Huh? Daemon Primarchs can, but not the Loyalist ones. That's why Ferrus Manus replaced his hands with bionics after he lost them.
Ba dum tss!
I would consider Corax to be active since we do for certain he’s active in the warp hunting his traitorous brethren. For all we know, Lorgar isn’t doing much because he’s terrified of mobilizing only to be ambushed by angry shadows.
I think it is possible that Sanguinius could make a return one day since we now know his body is in stasis.
Well we do have a kind of active Sanguinius in the form of the Sanguinor.
@elonwhatever also it's said that sanguinius is speaking to some high ranked blood angels through the warp. His soul is still alive.
corax be vibing to doom music while slaughtering legions of daemons and heretics
@@user-tg1tz8pu3s
"Rip and tear? Rip and tear their guts?" 😃
Alpharius should have been in every category given their dubious loyalist/heretic allegiances
Alpharius playing hopscotch with this entire tierlist
-My primarch... I must ask, are we loyalist or heretics?
-Wait, I thought you were alpharius
-Fuck
Allegedly Alpharius is both extremely busy and dead as dinner, what a guy
I very much appreciate your treatment of Lorgar in this video. He has become such a meme character that sometimes trying to have a serious discussion about the character is hard. IMO one of the pivotal characters of the universe playing the power behind the chaos throne before overstepping and trying to take the reigns of the Heresy himself. He is chaos Guiliman, the organizer, not the war leader. The long range planner, not the "in the breach" leader. A role that will never be filled because chaos is going to chaos.
The problem is that the lore itself seems to treat him that way too. Lorgar could easily had been the most interesting of the traitor primarchs, an ideologically driven rebel against the emperor who sees in the chaos gods the only alternative to the nightmare of the Imperium, but time and time again, the story frames him as this scorned so who is salty about his daddy issues, manipulated by Kor Phaeron, outstaged by Horus, and defeated by every opponent he faces in the most annoying way possible.
Borgar fans never cease to amaze. Yes, he would be better if written better, he is not.
Chaos Guilliman, ey? Never looked at it from this angle, but it sure is an interesting one... even more reason to replace Failbaddon, who has no business leading Chaos forces now, that loyalists Primarch are walking again.
Yeah, he is one of the main architects of the heresy with his legion size and strategy for corrupting the others yeah he is the chaos guilliman
''Chaos Guiliman'', lol.
Please, do not insult Papa Smurf.
He's actually competent in what he does, has common sense and when he decides to get his hands dirty, he's a force to be reckoned with ( read ''Know no Fear'').
Lorgar is an absolute joke.
He became Chaos' little b*tchboy, because daddy dind't allow him to worship him, tried to stage a coup against Horus during the Heresy and got his arse whooped.
Corax moped the floor with him, during the Dropsite Massacre and then again, after he had become a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided, Corax made him run like a little b*tch.
He tried again, to gain leadership of the Chaos Marines and was again put in his place by Abbadon, who's not even a Primarch!
It gets even messier when you consider that Sanguinius' body vanished from its tomb, and M''Shen's log of her confrontation with Curze is missing the actual killing and HIS body's whereabouts are unknown. The only one I think is for sure dead is Ferrus and still waiting for some way for that to be reversed.
Probably comanding the leagion of the dammed
@@xuxu2020honestly, rhat would be the best way to do it. Rather than going "nu-uh", make him stay dead, but return him as headless commander of the legion of the damned.
1.Lion - Back and kicking ass
2. *REDACTED*
3.Fulgrim - Sexy Demon
4. Perturabo - Boring Demon
5. Khan - Lost in Webway
6. Russ - Lost in Warp
7. Dorn - “dead” but come on
8.Konrad - Death by assassin waifu
9.Sanguinius - Death by Daddy Issues the man
10. Manus - Death by penis blade
11. *REDACTED*
12. Angron - Angry Demon
13. Guilliman - Leading the Imperium
14.Mortarion - Smelly Demon
15. Magnus - Extra Magical Demon
16.Horus- Gone, reduced to even less than atoms
17.Lorgar - Demon Nerd
18. Vulcan - “dead” but also immortal
19. Corvis - Shadowy Warp Thing
20. Alpharius - Dead…right?
21. Omegon - Fuck if I know
Russ is probably rescuing Isha. Thinking she's the tree of life
@@angelofthedeath2433 Had a fanfic in my mind of Russ and Isha falling in love. horrifying shit
Corvus is just vibing in the Eye spooking heretics. I have a small feeling he may come back for the loyalists next due to the updated models for the Ravenguard
When he's done beating up Lorgar, he'll probably help out his sons.
Not a Space Marine Fan at all but Corvus and Lorgar are 2 of my favorite Primarchs in the setting. Would be over the moon to read about them continuing their feud. Also the aspect of Warp Infused/Daemon Corax intrigues me greatly.
He's a demon now, but a loyalist one. Either that or that prolonged journey in the warp unlocked some special power in him
@@zaer-ezartI don't quite think it is possible to be a loyalist daemon. As I understand it, daemonhood can only be attained by one who has fallen to chaos, and being a loyalist and falling to chaos are mutually exclusive.
@@zaer-ezartI think it was heavily implied that all primarchs are beings of warp. So I would guess what we saw was the „unleashed” Corax
Who will return next? My money is on Fulgrim, complete with a contentious 10th edition codex for the Emperor's Children.
Considering the recent reveal of Fulgrim's new heresy model it makes me think we might be waiting a few years before he hits the 41st millennium, and maybe a loyalist will be back first?
@@John_Curtinmy money's on Russ
I cannot wait for an Emperors Children release, my bank account on the other hand… 😅
Valrak who usually has good leaks/rumor sources says fulgrim is coming this edition russ either at the end of edition or start of next.
@@John_Curtinnah if anything the 30k release increases the chances of soon 40 k fulgrims return. Not to mention all the EC rumours about a range refresh.
It's ok I've found one of the lost Primarchs...he was behind the sofa cushions with some loose change and stale cashews.
I want Dorn to come back and get a decent story for the Imperial Fist, I'm tired of them going the way of Lieutenant Worf
Bro i think Dorn will get the Emperors Power Claw
@@brooklynkeith2877im with you on this
...like Dorn is on Deep Space 9?
Leave Dorn where he belongs. Deep sixed. Iron within, Iron without! I half expect Chapter Master Valerk to show up and spout his allegiances 😂
In "The Devastation of Baal" I think a telling amount of attention and focus is placed on explaining and then repeatedly bringing up the fact that the Blood Angels have a pure drop of blood of Sanguinius held in stasis from the moment of his death.
It could be a red herring, but I think it's a Chekhov's Gun, holding open the door for Cawl to maybe work some more of his genecrafting magic 👀
More interesting book point for Cawl is that he has Primaris Marines for all 20 legions and Guilliman will only let him activate loyal ones. So Primaris Marines for the 2 lost legions exist (or it got past the proof readers).
they re going to drop the drop on sanguiny's body to regen and tada he comes back to banish and close the rift.yellow boy gets daddies claws and goes nuts in a terminator armour in some cool battles. Ultra boy gets his wings slapped off the back pack and goes and organises daddies new library whilst the green dragon, wolf boy and raven guard come back from the shadow. Alpha boy shows of a chameleon paint job off and says sorry bros i secretly always helping dad. 5 millennia or maybe 10 they push back the bad guys and close the rift. no one is dead everyone gets glory and then they lead everyone through a unification crusade. Daddy finally dies with a sad look back at 6 of his sons gone but the remaining 14 pulling together working out their problems maybe even use 2 and 11 to slap em back into shape
@@4L3X4ND3R19K all in all still better narrative than dropping some kind of chaos emperor :l
I know it's unlikely for a good while but I really want Lorgar to come back so 40k-onlys get a more nuanced view than "whingy cult leader who got bitched on and left" like all the memes reduce him down to. The Guilliman/Corax vs. Lorgar beef would be legendary. He really has a ton of depth with the emperor betraying him and pushing him directly into Erebus' arms, his relationships with the other primarchs whose legionaries turned traitor due to the lodges being filled with Lorgar's priests, and the chaos infighting there would be with Angron since Lorgar was the one who turned him into a demon when he tried to save him from the nails.
Lorgar has the most interesting journey of the bunch, until the end of the heresy when he just dips and his story line was abandoned. He really needs more lore love.
I also really wanna know his thoughts on the modern Imperium
He is... the story about him and Corvus its in the 40k. HE just left exile. Now we have to see wth hes goin to do.
@@z-mkgaming7464 Actually, Lorgar sees a vision of the current (current-ish?) Imperium in "Aurelian".
But by that point he's well on his journey into Heresy. He finds the notion of an Imperium worshipping the Emperor amusing, but since it's not worship of the Primordial Powers (and thus, doesn't much help the Soul once it enters the Immaterium), he sees it as unimportant.
I wager sanguineous will return at some point... gw want that coin
Arbiter Ian I just want to say thank you for doing this channel, I'm a big fan of your work! Cheers mate!
It's important to note that Vulcan is a perpetual, meaning unless killed by special means, he doesn't really stay dead forever. I believe Sanguinious was also supposed to be a perpetual but I'm not certain about that. But at the least, Vulcan belongs in the lost/lazy middle ground area.
Unfortunately Vulcan was killed by an athathme spear hes fully dead.
@@brooklynkeith2877 Source? I can't find anything on this.
@@brooklynkeith2877 no athahthme spear cant fully kill perpetual so hes alive but perpetuals takes always longer to come back live because they need to climp over every death and thats douple for Vulkan
@@brooklynkeith2877vulkan survives that
I'm new in 40K, so how does perpetual comes back alive in practically? Does he born again or what?
So Chagatai was last seen 10 000 years ago being taken into the webway by the Drukhari? So many possibilties for horrors and survival and different horrors and being forever changed - but then being healed by Ynnead before losing all his memories and being encountered by a White Scars successor chapter in a battle when they end up fighting Chaos alongside the Ynnari.
Congratulations, you put more thought into that than all eldar writers put together.
wasnt he recorded chasing Drukhari to webway ?
@@no-nonseplayer6612 True! my bad! But the rest of my idea still holds up, I'd say.
Remember that time in the chaos rift works different. He might spend there like 10, 50, 100 years fighting where in real world passed 10,000
@@lukhinio3200 except that he was in the webway where time is fine. And he was chasing drukhari who don't use warp shenanigans.
I always imagine Fulgrim looking so much more disturbing than he appears in official art, more like a quasi-reptilian Cenobite from Hellraiser.
There were 4 playable, with their own models, demon primarchs for Epic, in the late 90's.
Yup. Judging by the 'one demon primarch and one loyalist primarch per new edition' that GW seem to go with and the Horus Heresy demon Fulgrim model coming out, I highly suspect 10th is going to bring in Fulgrim and a Codex: Emperor's Children (since they're the last remaining 'faction' that doesn't have a codex) and then we'll have a complete 41st/42nd millenium update for all of the old Epic daemon primarches.
After reading The First Heretic and Betrayer I actually don't get why Lorgar became such a meme. He is on of the best written and interesting Primarchs next to Perturabo
Totally agree and yet somehow stuck up, boring cunts like lion and Russ are more popular 😴
It's because after that he ran back to the Warp and Corax came after him and Lorgar knew he couldn't beat him after getting his ass handed to him over and over again
@@thatlonewolfguy2878 you're forgetting Lorgar is the guy who had daemon fulgrim in captivity and had the ability to enslave him. He had his moments
He also defeated a named Bloodthirster in the Warp.
@@discipleofdagon8195he also defeated Khornes best blood thirster. It's funny how Corax simps want to mock Lorgar yet they forget their precious Corax ran like a little biatch from Kurze
Love a bit of clonegrim, when i see some fan art of the loyalist primarchs i always kind of want clonegrim to appear there. One on each side seems very chaos.
Picked up my first Warhammer 40K audiobook thanks to your videos Ian. I don't ever think I'll get into the game itself, but you do such a fantastic job of explaining the lore, I figured I'd give it a shot.
(I opted to start with Shadowsun: The Patient Hunter, FYI)
Being a lore fan is valid
5:43 slight correction, we don’t know Fulgrim was Banished, he fled his encounter with Dorn but is still at the siege by the time of the most recent book, off somewhere turning people into drugs and being unhelpful to Horus and such. My guess is that he’ll be the only traitor primarch to survive the siege to its end, and then flee at its conclusion; or perhaps he’ll be killed by Dorn finishing the job. That would be the most fitting option I think.
You're telling me the horus books are still not complete?
Nope 2 left in the siege. And another slight correction because the Fury of Magnus book has Magnus become a daemon during the siege in a the first of two fights against Vulcan, and then is instantly banished due to the emperors wards.
@@beannguyenkhac4332 the siege series is about 2 books away from being over, when it ends the heresy will be over
@@digitaldiamond1928 there’s 2 left presently, Horus and Fulgrim, but we know Horus will die, so Fulgrim is the only one with a chance to survive it(who also stayed to the end of it, so excluding Perturabo)
Wait is this part of the primarchs series or siege of terra
I really kind of hope GW puts out a box set of Daemon Corvus Corax vs Daemon prince Logar. If they do fulgrim in 10th like everybody thinks they will, thats probably the best move for 11th. Vulkan Vs Peterabo would also be pretty sweet. OR just an arc where Trazyn's menagerie gets fully fucked and it turns out he has Jahgatai, Dorn, or Alpharius in there, I don't even need models on those 3, just closure.
I always preferred them as myths to characters. The whole hersey felt very much like the final part of Arthurian myth where the glorius kingdom destroyed in civil war, great heroes and brothes on arms fight each other and it all ends with then king and his son in a final confrontation killing each other.
I was never interested in having it all spelt out in detail becaue it was a half lost hiatory of the end if a golden age.
When you define characters in vague mythic terms some of the fans always want the truth and the details and who could beat who in a fight. The books and the models sell so of course we get everything in painstaking detail now. Some of stuff is even good but I don't think it actually makes the setting better to spell everything out.
I'd rather know the color of Ferris Madness is underwear and what angron thinks of cheese.
Yes but a new/growing fan base and thus _money_ so keep all this storytelling nonsense to yourself.
as someone who has only been into Warhammer 40k for less than 8 years I deliberately started with only reading None- Horus Heresy books, wanting to get into the "modern setting" which sounded much more interesting to me than 30k. The Primarchs overarching/overshadowing presence one of the reasons.
Great recap of the who's, where's and what's up with Primarchs! We already got this in each legion video, but these guys all in one place makes it easier to remember.
I much preferred Lorgar being sat in the Eye of Terror doing his own thing. 'You want me to... wreak vengeance on the Imperium? Angron that was ten thousand years ago, I'm a demon monk now. What? No I don't care, get a grip'
I think as it's more popular than unpopular, and that it makes gw alot of money, I think more primarchs will be back and that the groundwork is being laid, I'd personally like to see more come back
there shoul be back 2-3 Primarchs pack next year and maybe big e himself
While I'm not sure 40k nerds wanna see the "death of 40k" like Warhammer fantasy did, the lore is so deep and convoluted now that return of primarchs or even big E seems inevitable
@@jeremybott4899 I don't think they are going to make the same mistake twice and end 40k, especially as it is not only GWs biggest game but probably the most popular wargame out there, and yeah Primarchs returning makes the lore more convoluted buy when has 40k ever been an easy coherent timeline
@@melindaphantom9450 but that speaks to the problem of the return of primarchs. So many have said "I'll return at the end times", and now they're coming back. Seems to box the 40k lore in a bit. I mean I get it, 40k lore has crawled for so many years, and now it's speeding up. Like you said, it's really hitting it's top speed in the culture. I mean there's going to be a Amazon show. I just don't wanna be able to predict what's going to happen, cause for 30 years I haven't been able to.
To return Sanguinius, you need to kill all his sons, since they contain fragments of his soul, but he is against this and would be a revived super sad angel whose children all died. Maybe GW'll give us a primarch-sized sanguinor model, for example? 🤔🤔
Im new to warhammer 40k and have watched this video probably 20 times. Its helped me alot into my hours of lore research 😂
A lot of the Primarch's 'i will return' legends reminds me a lot of the real life legend of Holger Danske, a mythical warrior of old, sworn to return from his rest if the country is ever in danger
Bile: hey guys i cloned Sanguinious!
Literally all of chaos: why the fuck would you do that?
Bile: *shrugs* kinda just my thing.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Fabulous Bill made clones of all the Dead Primarchs for shits and giggles.
@@thehighwayman3122well aslo to prove thst he can. He had a convo with Tryzin and tryzin really vounded his pride😂.
There is also the fact that he may be employed at some point by the metal skely creeps to give them their bodies back. Sadly, he can't do much about the soul thing.
I love my loyalist, I do. But Lorgar deserves more love. But on the Loyalist side, RG is my guy. I’m reading Dark Imperium and I really like him!
Matthews a pain 😁
@@benny.boy8889 Matthew?
“I punched out one of his hearts why does no one remember that!?” -Magus the Red
7:00-Just to be clear, that is Fabius Bile's viewpoint of Clonegrim, and it should be taken with some salt, as Fabius is not an impartial observer in this instance. For one, he is an extremely arrogant and cynical individual in general, and for another, he does not have the highest opinion of his Primarch these days.
Fabius was also worried that his guys would follow clone Fulgrim instead of him I believe.
I wish dorn would come back after being successfully tempted by Khorn like they began hinting at in End and the Death 1
Magnus has hinted that he knows where Russ is. Recent fluff points to Russ being the next loyalist primarch to come back.
Aww how this channel has slowly become my goto for all horus heresy lore, thank you for this Mr. Ian!
I love your vids! my only criticism is Fulgrim should be in the Lazy section for "now" 😄
He hasn't left his pleasure planet since he cut Gullimen's throat. Seems lazy to me.
@@bigbill639 To be fair he probably spends a lot of energy on all the drugs and shit he's doing there.
I find it odd that people think the Primarchs that are just sort of generic leaders rather than leaders of entire factions will come back. I thought it would be obvious to everyone by now that the Emperor’s Children and Fulgrim will be long before any of the others come back.
I beg to differ. Ferris Manus is ahead of him
It's not a coincidence that the four most active Traitor Primarchs are the chosen primarchs of the four Chaos Gods
If you kept up with lore you'd knowthat even the dead primarchs are being set up to come back. Even the emperor to an extent. Also no primarchs are generic leaders, they all lead their legions.
@@SlyslugI don’t think GW is actually going to bring back any of the “super dead” primarchs (Ferrus, Horus, Sanguinius). However, as always they leave breadcrumbs in the novels as a way to set up this contingency plan in case the lore gets stale so you never know.
@@saucemandela oh sorry also ferrus is heavily hinted at being the leader of the legion of the damned (the emperor possessed his body with a flaming head during the hours heresy and we know that primarch spirits live on long after body death)
My favorite lore channel. Thanks for all you do, m8.
I am complete new Warhammer. The lore absolutely fascinates me. You're videos are concise and really well made. The start of my 40k journey had been aided in part to your videos. Thanks for the help
Unkillable! What an awesome video! I missed you guys! Welcome back and cant wait for more 10th edition battle reports!
Hi Ian, there's at least one of the dead primarchs who should have an asterisk next to them. Sanguinius is dead but can still communicate with his sons. Dante has spoken to him, unless that was retconned later...
"Father can I die and rest?" "Lol..LOL...LMFAOOOO...no"
Are you sure it wasn't a bad trip from eating weird mushrooms?
IIRC, that one bit was a warp-ghost of Sang, but maybe not the Angel's real soul?
If they ever bring sanguinius back I lose all faith and interest in the setting
theres this one time Dantes goes hes tired and wants to die but he heres sangunius voice that tells him he cant die just yet@@hpph7133
Primarch: Rogal Dorn.
Location: My Heart
You probably should have mentioned Vulcan is a perpetual who literally cannot stay dead, thus why he's in the lost category despite being witnessed dying at the end of the war of the beast
Alpharius lives (probably). Alpharius and Omegon swapped names. Dorne killed Omegon (calling himself Alpharius). Once Omegon (Alpharius) found out that Omegon died, he decided to change his name back to Alpharius, in honor of Alpharius (Omegon). And the Omegon that died to Guilliman was most likely some regular Alpha Legionaire. The main reason most people think that Omegon was killed by Dorne, was due to how Dorne could sense his presence. Alpharius was taught by the Sigilite on how to mask his presence and a bunch of other sneaky shit, to the point where Alpharius was actively in the presence of his brothers and them not having a clue. Then again, this could all just be a lie started by Alpharius, sneaky little goofball.
Wait, I don't remember Chlonegrim ever showing signs of "turning" the same way Fulgrim prime did, and that certainly wasn't the reason why he was traded to Trazyn, was it?
Fabius Bile began to fear the clone would subjugate him, unable to kill him, Bile traded him to Tranzyn
Bile was increasingly distrustful of the clone, mostly it seems due to his own personal biases against Fulgrim. Most of the book seems to be him convincing himself that the clone cannot be perfect and it's doomed to fall like Fulgrim was. So we don't have an objective yes/no on if Clonegrim going to fall, only the perspective of a person who was actively looking for that to be true.
@@jetblackangelX exactly. The way the video made it sound, Clonegrim was slowly falling to chaos
Let's be honest though: with Sanguinius being the obvious Christ analogue of 40K, they could come up with a completely out of pocket reason why he could resurrect and come back once more. It would be VERY thematic.
Something something sanguinor.
@@patrickking3124 Isn't Mephiston supposed to be the "angel of darkness" side of Sanguinius soul to reflecting Sanguinor's counterpart?
Well, the sanguinor, is quite active in the Dante books, and Dante has a vision of sanguinius saving him from death in the end of book 2. And yes the sanguinor and mephiston might just be the light and dark side of sanguinius. Others say his spirit is lingering on abbadons flagship.
@@steffenhenriksen6530 I remember this as well the crystal form containing his soul on the vengeful spirit
@ohamatchhams with all the Warp fuckery going on, Sanguinor could be a reincarnated Sanguinius. Which would explain why the latter grew wings and can soothe Sanguinius's Black Rage.
I have a theory that all the primarchs will come back as soon as the empire finds all 40k warhammers
people would lose thier damn minds if Corax came back as a Mutated Shadow entity loyalist. Along with Leman Russ and his legion of werewolf space marines.
Yes! This is a question I've been wanting answered for so long 😀
As a Magnus fanboy I´d like to add that, despite the memes, the fight between Magnus and Russ was a really balanced and uncertain one till the end, all will Magnus was massivly handycaped by using pretty much all of his Psykic power to protect his last remaining sons from the aproaching Space Wolves and Custodis instead of throwing a miniature sun at his brother.
Even aside the magnus russ fight which as youve said magnus wouldve won had he not protected his legion ..all in all , The thousand sons couldve easily won had magnus not did what he did in name of repenting.
Great summary! Im getting into the books and the 18 different primarchs can spin my head from chapter to chapter. This helps a lot!
Fulgrim wasnt banished to the Warp during the Siege of Terra. He literally just got petulant and left due to boredom
One could say that Ferrus Mannus lost his head during his duel with Fulgrim
really blew his top off
No way to get ahead in life…
My theory for Alpharius/Omegon is that he actually is the AL dude in the Bequin books and is working with Valdor.
That would be ANOTHER feather in Abbnett's cap. I find it hard to believe, but I cannot find it in me to disagree with you. But perhaps I just want to believe, as I am Alpharius (and collect Alpha Legion)
Alpharius is definitely dead, any Alpha Legion fan knows that for true. Omegon was known to use body doubles in much the same vein as his brother. Current lore suggests that few if any of the other Primarchs even knew of Omegon's existence, so I wouldn't be surprised if that death was retconned.
Willing to bet that the Alpharius in the Bequin trilogy is actually Ingo Pech. Abnett is using the last three HH novels to in part set up the events that lead to the Bequin novels (eg Valdor and the anti-Astartes virus). Pech was purposely removed from the action in a non-lethal way, leading me to believe he shows up later to aid Eisenhorn against Valdor.
Idk if we can call sanguinius 100% definitely dead. I feel like recent lore has been dropping subtle hints at some sort of resurrection.
Passages from "Angel Exterminatus" and "Slaves To Darkness" reference that Perturabo's soul is being siphoned in a way that resembles what happens to the Drukhari. Some theorize that Perturabo has been missing from the setting, because he didn't ACTUALLY go daemon. In his refusal to bend to Chaos, he's been spending his time trying to stop, or circumvent that siphoning. Essentially turning himself into a Dreadnought. Others say that he just kind of decided, "fukkit" and went daemon because it was the only way. Backed into a corner, similarly to Magnus and Mortarion.
But the quote about how Perturabo and The Iron Warriors want to force order upon Chaos really reminded me of a different theory. There's that one theory that talks about how the Emperor was ACTUALLY actively seeking Godhood. He wanted to become a fifth Chaos God, and basically be a Chaos God of "Order"
This is such a tin-foil hat, cooked conspiracy, that I think could be somewhat correct for no other reason than the fact that it is so insanely, "wtf" But here it is;
I would open up the theory by referencing to the fight between Guilliman, and Mortarion. Where the Emperor basically possessed Guilliman's body to completely dunk on Mortation. The biggest thing that pressed Perturabo to go traitor, was his jealousy and anger towards Dorn. By the time we get to the Siege of Terra, Perturabo is kind of done with everybody's bullshit. But just stayed traitor because he was just kind of way too invested at this point. He was over all of the bullshit, so he busted up the palace and basically said, "Alright, cool, I've fulfilled my oath, I upheld my end of the bargain, I don't really have anything else for y'all, GLHF." withdrawing all of his forces and ragequitting. Perturabo regretted going traitor after he saw how far his brothers plunged into madness. But it isn't like he could ever come back to the Imperium. I would also like to note the Fulgrim clone. The Fulgrim clone was perfect. Since his original body got yoinked by the daemon. And then there was the Horus clone. The Horus clone was a little piece of shit. But the Fulgrim clone was LITERALLY him. The Primarchs are not their bodies. The Primarchs are their souls. Perturabo's soul is being siphoned / eaten away. And he regrets going traitor. Perturabo and the Emperor have such a hardcore anti-god/anti-warp mindset. What if Perturabo comes back as like, an "avatar of order", the Emperor is filling the gap of Perturabo's soul. Emperor is channeling himself through Perturabo in a way. Or similarly to the Sanguinor, what if Perturabo comes back as like, "an imperial daemon"?
Writing this has also made me consider another conspiracy that is a MILLION times more cooked. Vashtorr is such an interesting Chaos entity. This dude doesn't play around. He doesn't do deceptive-daemon shit. He just has a good time being the arms dealer of Chaos. Just chilling at The Forge Of Souls making stuff, and the Chaos Gods don't really mess with him, cause I mean, he literally makes their shit, so they can't really get rid of him. The warp is completely unstable.The Chaos Gods have to begrudgingly accept his existence because of how influential he is. This lad literally binds lesser daemons to his will via contract. And Perturabo is known for his expert craftsmanship, and innovation. Vashtorr owes no allegiance to anything but himself. Even the high and mighty all-powerful pantheon of Chaos is essentially stuck kneeling to The Arkifane due to his purpose. What if Perturabo found a way to master the Warp...? What if he truly found a way to dominate it? What if Vashtorr IS Perturabo? Vashtorr is just a version of Perturabo from the future, finding Vashtorr in the current setting due to a combination of time shenanigans, and warp spaghetti. Or Vashtorr is a version of Perturabo from an alternative universe/timeline/reality. Or at the very least, due to the soul drainage it might not be Perturabo COMPLETELY, but what if there are just pieces / remnants of Perturabo within Vashtorr? Kind of like how Magnus was shattered into the various shards. Those shards are incredibly powerful, with Malcedor literally creating The Gray Knights using them. So what if it's something somewhat similar?
Gotta be honest, I really dislike the way the Primarchs have moved to centre stage over the years and turned into a WWE soap opera of Giant Personalities having duels with each other.
I much preferred the 90s era, where they were background figures of myth and legend. Seeing them up close diminshes them. But there's a fan tendency to want to see every little scrap of backstory depicted in detail, itemised and filed away, even when the intention of that backstory was to function as a poetic sketch.
The Clone Wars have gone from being a throwaway line that conjures up whole imaginary vistas to a collection of Wookieepedia articles filling in the events practically on a day-by-day basis, following hundreds of novels and TV episodes. The Terminator's future war has gone from being a couple of sketched-out, impressionistic dream sequences to entire films. I've no doubt some fucker is currently thinking of ways to turn Blade Runner's Tannhauser Gate into six animated series, a comic book run and a movie.
And the sad thing is, once they've been dragged out of the realm of quantum uncertainty and thrown into sharp focus, these mythic bits of worldbuilding can never live up to the versions our individual imaginations conjured up. They're diminished.
I agree with all this. I'd also add that, having stories of the mythical Primarchs from 10,000 years ago was also one of the building blocks that created the sense of the Imperium being a decaying edifice, very much like the late Roman Empire, with its best days behind it, where it only continues to exist, because it has always existed, and only rarely has the vital force to push back the xenos and heretics who threaten to finally pull it crashing down.
Having the loyalist Primarchs return doesn't just diminish the legendary status of the Primarchs themselves, but it drives a coach and horses through this image of the Imperium. Now, we have the Imperium reborn, like a supercharged version of the Eastern Roman Empire under Justinian. New, better space marines, with better equipment. Primarch heroes returned who are the equal of the Daemon Primarchs of the Traitor Legions. Now it is possible to conceive of the Imperium stronger than ever, reconquering long lost worlds, and it's a very different feel to the galaxy.
All that said, however, and the galaxy is a large place. Plenty of people and places in the galaxy may well doubt the truth of the return of the Loyalist Primarchs, to whatever extent they are really aware of it, and there's still plenty of scope to create your own stories which ignore the latest edition of "The Primarchs: A Soap Opera".
Hot take; as someone who has only been into Warhammer 40k for less than 7 years I deliberately started with only reading None- Horus Heresy books, wanting to get into the "modern setting" which sounded much more interesting to me than 30k. The Primarchs overarching/overshadowing presence one of the reasons. And all my favorite 40k books are those without Primarchs
GWF! Galactic Wrestlin' Federation!
The Primarchs make huge chunks of money for GW. I bet we will see a lot (if not all) returned as models and in the lore. First it's going to be Russ for the end of this edition and then Fulgrim for the beginning of the next edition.
@@timothyharnedy4495 I feel the exact same. The Primarchs seemed to be a symbol of how far the Imperium had fallen since the Heresy. Mythical heroes from a lost "golden age" that tore itself apart. Having them returned in the "modern" 40K kind of makes the setting just a rehash of the Heresy again. Having the Imperium invent new tech like the Primaris etc really contradicts the theme of the setting that humanity no longer truly understands the technology it uses. But new marines & new Primarch models sell so that's how the setting has become diluted.
@Arbitor Ian have you included the lore from the first founding book. There's new stuff about primarchs in there
Your video introducing Warhammer 40K lore for beginners is one of the main things that got me into 40K. This one was a treat to come across.
Really great, these summaries help to keep the situation organized in my rapidly deteriorating cranium.
Corax leaving with "nevermore" is so hilariously stupid
Hang on, why did you put daemon Flugrim in the ‘Active’ category? All he’s done is lounge at his pleasure planet and let his agent goons do the work for him, just like Perturabo. What makes him any more active than the Iron Lord?
Great work arbiter. You keep everything you do interesting. Thanks
Let's consider the idea that the unmeintionable legions in terms on name being the 2nd and 11th could just be lost outside of the galaxy stranded or one is actually dead but who knows
I remember someone saying a long time ago that when all the primarchs returned, one would turn loyalist and one would turn traitor. The more lore gets released, the more im convinced that Alpharius is going to turn loyalist and Corax being so corrupted by the warp would turn traitor.
can’t turn loyalist if you were never a traitor!
**inception theme**
With Sanguinius being dead - what is the Sanguinor? And who does Dante keep having visions of? Are they visions or is he talking to Sanguinius' warpy soul?
His spirit could still be active in the warp somehow. Also, in 40k whenever warpcraft is involved time basically goes out the window as a concept. It's perfectly possible that Dante has visions of Sanguinius during the heresy or something like that.
The Sanguinor is basically the closest thing you can get to an Imperial daemon prince. He was originally one of Sanguinius' Sanguinary Guard back during the Heresy, and has since become the physical embodiment of Sangunius will who appears out of nowhere to aid his sons in battle when they need him the most. As for Dante's visions; well as you say, they could be Sangunius' spirit directly communicating with Dante, or they could just be Dante imagining it. We don't know just yet, but I imagine we'll find out.
The sanguinor its the Good piece of sanguineus, and mephiston the dark.
Well, that and Celestine. Shout outs to loyalist daemons.@@GentleBen_86
I think the Sanguinor is a manifistation with parts of Sanguinnius soul changed by 10 thousands years of worship as a saint
Great job brother... Thank you your time and effort !!
i mean, mortarion got spanked again by drago during the events of the chaos gate game.
so there is that
I'd be happy if it stayed like this for years to come.
But Fulgrim... Emperor's Children new model range!
@AdamMichalMarkowski yeah the main slaves to darkness, god specific legions having there primarchs are a given along with there own codex just hope they get better treatment then us world eaters
@@dukedevlan5457 I wouldn't mind seeing some World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Nightlords specific models as well. Especially since other than few old artworks we have no idea how Daemon Lorgar looks. Not to mention Perturabo, whos supposed Daemon depictions just looked like he's connected to his armour with more cables.
In a similar vein I'd be interested in a missing primarch/legions list of theories from most outlandish to most conventional lore interpretations
Arbitor Ian already made a video on them; ruclips.net/video/wL39MSbwTOg/видео.htmlsi=A3l_JTQU2na9XoxO
One fell to Chaos before it was mainstream, the other one befriended xenos. Both had to be purged. The end.
@@toomaskotkas4467 evidence?
@@gawkthimm6030 "...list of theories from most outlandish to most conventional lore interpretations"
@@toomaskotkas4467 I just noticed your profile pic. so I will be ignoring you from now on...
I want to thank you again Ian for having the best GW channel out there, you create fantastic content and deliver it like you’re having a normal conversation - not overly dramatic, without being unnecessarily edgy or badly attempting to be funny, and not like a toddler that’s just had 6 bags of Skittles. So hard to find content that isn’t at least one of those.
As an Eldar player I'm happy to say all of my known "Primarchs" are still around and kicking ass! For the craftworld!
Making the Primarchs so physically large really hurt the stories of their youth. Space Marines are big enough to make back stories difficult, if not for the fact that they were modified, and we rarely hear about their pre-Astartes lives.
~~Always remember, Papa Nurgle loves you!
Once upon a time, there was Emperor. And he was huge. He had 20 sons. They were also huge. 🤣
@@AdamMichalMarkowskiThe emperor its Human size. Just a regular dude. Theres 2 passages when ppl see his real shape.
I really like the fact that primarchs are this big. They are not human even if they may resemble a human
Where are they now?
Russ owns a company leasing off the grid huts in Canada.
Magnus owns a shop in Glastonbury that sells incense, spirit catchers and crystals.
Lorgar was last seen in Eastern Europe running a convent.
Horus is Special Advisor to the American Republican political party.
Konrad runs a donkey sanctuary in Cornwall.
Fulgrim, thanks to a 1972 prog-rock hit that reached No.4 in the charts now does gigs at holiday camps and cruise ships.
Perterabo is currently managing the HS2 project to connect the UK train network.
The Khan runs a successful line of Subways in America.
Mortarian lives above an 80’s themed bar in Manchester, he’s currently wanted for a list of local pet deaths.
Rogal Dorn sells printers.
Very interesting seeing at layed out like that. Thanks Ian
1.5x speed, thank me later.
No. Imagine having no attention span.
years ago i made a funny little tier list of how dead all the primarchs were. this video makes me wish i posted it! great video.
cant be the only one who rewatch these long format videos... i love it
I got some info that any of the two lost astartes chapters (2 or 11) are currently on a mission but not in the present, they are currently traveling thru time .. They will be revealed when the multiverse of 40k is introduced ~ 😎🍻
Thanks for the breakdown Ian, great job. I always thought Fulgrim was just railing space cocaine for 10,000 years in one immense debauched party so was interesting to see you list him as active and good explenation why.
Need my boy Vulcan. Absolutely too wholesome
Corax is the best, fighting for freedom in the Eye of Terror. Nevermore!
this video was awesome, so perfectly explained with the definitively-not-tierlist
Awesome lore video as always!
This is actually a great recap. Thank you.
I think Sanguinius isn't that dead either, especially since Guilliman was saved as well. Also he'd be a Primarch selling like hot buns in winter as we germans say, and that's kind of what drives GWs lore these days, see The Lion. And the lost ones will return eventually because the big second siege of Terra will also sell Books and minis to no end.
Always looking forward to your next upload. Cheers from Italy !
Thank you. I've wondered about Khan. Only looking at stuff at random, I never saw whether he was a traitor or not. Now I have.
I love when they drop hints about the lost primarchs. Alivia Sureka apparently knew or knew of one of them but swore never to speak his name.
As I understand the lore with Bile and Clonegrim. Bile had to fight the urge to kneel before him. This was part of the reason he turned him over to Trazyn
Sanguinnius is def dead... BUT, he still has some presence in the current setting, so we may still be seeing him around
the best you're gonna get is the sanguinor or maybe a warp ghost in some straight-to-paperback black library novel
@@discipleofdagon8195 well his warp ghost has appeared to dante and mephiston. I think he's gonna pop up once and save the day, or give Guilliman and the Lion some tool to help defeat darkness
@@michaelscalese3142 I mean it makes sense. Both are blood angels and both are somewhat insane due to their geneseed.
Amazing idea for a video. Thanks for this!