Viserys Created a Succession Crisis | Analysis | House of the Dragon Season 1
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- House of the Dragon Season 1 introduces King Viserys I. Although Viserys Targaryen gained sympathy from the audience, his leadership was flawed. And the king’s inconsistencies and inactions plunged the Targaryen dynasty into an avoidable tragedy. I hope you enjoy this Game of Thrones Character analysis.
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📚CHAPTERS
00:00 Viserys Targaryen I
00:45 The Rules of Succession
04:49 The Making of a Succession Crisis
07:17 War is Coming
10:33 Recap
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You're right, and that's why I hate Viserys. He really didn't think things through.
I’m so glad someone said this. It annoyed me that people started sympathising with Visarys in the episodes leading up to, and after, his death. He was a bad king, unable to keep peace within his own family (let alone his realm). His inability to maintain control and make his choice of successor indisputably clear led to the dance of dragons
No. You can’t blame Vicerys for alicent and otto’s decisions. They had been scheming in the books and it’s even thought that Alicent poisoned vicerys.
His choice of successor was indisputably clear. It simply was the wrong choice. Aegon always had a better claim, even before Rhaenyra disqualified herself. Once Aegon reached puberty Viserys should have changed his heir.
The people who say "Aemma would've died either way" forget one fact: Aemma didn't want to get pregnant again, and Viserys pressured her into it using his authority as her husband because he wanted a son. She told him in the bathtub earlier "No more after this." His own mother died in childbirth and she was older and weak. He knew the risks surrounded childbirth, and did this anyway.
How he treated her on the childbed aside, she never would've been in that dangerous situation in the first place if not for Viserys wanting a boy/placing her in that situation. Viserys is not guiltless.
Poor Aemma had no idea her fate was sealed with that conversation
We don't know how willing she was to birth Baelon. She had a bad pregnancy and realized she could have another. We don't know if this was true before they got her pregnant again. And when things went poorly, he wasn't given a choice between the two. He was given a choice between one baby or neither. It's possible that if he had refused they might have sliced up the baby to get him out, but that wasn't the choice offered.
that and the doctor might have had the knife slip in order to ensure she would die in childbirth
@Lord FreeRealEstate This is to much guess work.
Provide sources.
Well, tbis is just not true, she wanted the baby not only because it was her son, but because she knew the importance of the child, that was clear by her dialogue with Rhaenyra.
You forgot about one important fact, they are Targaryens, they don't have a taboo on incest. Viserys married Alicent and produced mail heir with her, the soultion to succesion dilemma is obvious - marry Rhaenyra to Aegon, as Otto proposed on the hunt, but this idea seemed morbid to Viserys.
She was over a decade older than Aegon you fool, the baby was 2.
@@randycrawford1132didn't stop monarchs then, it's not like they would marry right away.
@@randycrawford1132 and? her age gap with daemon was about 16 years, and viserys' own age gap with both of his own wives was much, much wider. viserys was just a complete moron with no capacity for foresight. anyone would be able to see the dance coming with the two competing claims active as they were. in fact, everyone but viserys *did*. he just chose to put his head in the sand and do nothing about it.
One of the main incentives for Viserys remarrying is that House Targaryen is down to four people. I think Viserys should have solved this crisis by annulling the marriage of Daemon on the grounds of it being unconsummated. Daemon could have married an older Laena and had Targaryen heirs. Rhaengyra should have been married to someone as soon as possible but it shouldn't have been Laenor as Viserys should have had spies find out his interest in men. It should have been to a nephew or cousin Velaryon. House Velaryon would have its Targaryen heir by engaging one of Rhaengrya's children to one of Daemon's. If Viserys remarried it should have only been after all of this and he should have passed a decree officially establishing primogeniture and declaring his younger children's line comes after Rhaengrya's.
This
Viserys could have just annulled Daemon’s marriage and married him to Rhaenyra. Which would have shored up the succession even more as Rhaenyra was already older than Laena at the beginning of the show.
@@MariusMoonbeam in theory it would make sense but Daemon wasn’t very popular with the Small Council. They didn’t want him anywhere near the possibility of being placed on the Iron Throne, giving him the heir as wife would be doing just that. Otto did call him another “Maegor”, the threat of Daemon as future king was what prompted Otto to suggest Rhaenyra as heir in the first place.
Well maybe GRRM should make you hand
@@thedarkestfateful what I find so interesting about the Maegor comparisons are they're just assumptions. We don't actually know how Daemon would handle it. We know younger Daemon was impulsive and quick to violence, but we see an older and more observant Daemon later on. We see what genuine love did to Daemon and had he been truly accepted earlier on, he very easily could be a great ruler. We'll never know, but I find it fascinating to think about.
While I'm on team black, it is indeed Aegon being king that'd avoid a war. The Queen simply has no choice but to kill Alicent's children if she wanted to stay on her throne. Even if Alicent's children had bent the knee from the get-go, there will always be some crisis later on which could push one of Alicent's children on to the throne.
Honestly, Viserys could've changed the law anytime, make the lords renew their oaths after Aegon was born and once she'd be old enough, put Rhaenyra on the small council or appoint her his hand to make the transition of power smoother down the line. But he did nothing to make it easier and stave off this crisis. Then again, Rhaenyra didn't help her claim by producing very obvious bastards and marrying the very guy that Viserys wanted to keep off the throne by naming her his heir.
And When Rhaenyra passes away, I'd argue that there will also be succession crisis within her own family. Who knows, there might come a time that Aegon the younger and Viserys will think that they are being robbed of their right since they are the trueborn children. And if not Aegon and Viserys, it could be their descendants.
@@hawkins347 Not really, you can't just change thousands of years worth of law, especially when the candidate for heir was as bad as Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra was too similar to Daemon, if she showed that she would make a good queen then posdibly, but with how she was you can't.
@@yamatonadeshiko567 Yep, there was always going to be a civil war as long as Rhaenyra was Viserys' chosen heir, either with Aegon II and the greens or with Rhaenyra's kids fighting each other, and the Greens fighting against them in a three way war.
@@AaronGuest Tell me how Aegon is any better? I'm not saying that Rhaenyra is perfect, but Aegon is a walking nightmare.
1) Aemma would have died either way. Essentially, she and Laena went through the same thing. Viserys made a choice, his fault in it was not consulting Aemma about it. Laena was allowed to make a choice, it was done purposefully.
2) I think Viserys did the best he could in remarrying and having the lords swear fealty to Rhaenyra. The lords were not going to stop pushing him to remarry, so he picked someone he (and Rhaenyra) got along with. He also maintained that Rhaenyra was his heir even after Aegon's birth, he never spoke any intention to change it to Aegon. The problem was: 1) he never full on said he wasn't going to change it to Aegon, leaving the door open for people like Otto to continue to plot and 2) he consistently validated Alicent's fears that her children were in danger. Yes, Otto planted that idea in her head but Viserys did everything he could to nurture it. Alicent could've been his and Rhaenyra's best ally and ensured that Rhaenyra sat on the Iron Throne (Alicent consistently says that Rhaenyra is heir and defends her position throughout the season), but he chose to ignore her fears and even prove them to be a VERY real possibility after what happened to Aemond's eye.
3) He also failed to properly prepare Rhaenyra for the nuances of ruling. She insults and threatens people because she's a Targaryen and she feels entitled to everything, whereas Alicent and Viserys know that they have to treat the lords with respect so they can serve the smallfolk as well as possible. This leaves Rhaenyra without allies. You think House Blackwood or House Bracken are going to support her after that mess she caused resulting in Jerrel Bracken's death? Viserys coddles her and forces everyone else to instead of teaching her how to command--rather than demand--respect. This also makes Aegon look preferrable because people know that it will actually be Otto and Alicent pulling the strings and they DO know how to manage the kingdom properly.
☝️ great take! thanks for sharing!
@@guihuppe Plus having children that are obviously Harwin Strong’s not Ser Laenor’s.
it doesn't matter if aemma would've died either way. she was held down, blindsided, and died screaming. that should be enough of a reason for people to dislike viserys, not to mention the reason her health deteriorated so badly was because of his incessant attempts for a son too
Jerrel Bracken's death wasn't her fault though, the Blackwoods and the Brackens have had a blood feud for decades. His death will just be another reason for them to continue it
@@taycarroll1124 Granted, the kids look (looked) promising though. Unfortunately, especially Lucerys. His confidence could be nurtured a bit, but he seems like a sweet kid.
Thanks for making this video. Viserys got his crown because of rules of succession. And twisted the rules to put his daughter on throne. He got married again because of lust and then refused to acknowledge his new family at all. All throughout the show one can see his affection for Rhaenyra and lack of affection for his children from Alicent. Greens are the way they are 50% because of Otto and 50% because of Viserys.
Thanks for your feedback and for your perspective on this video! I'm looking forward to seeing you again on the channel!!
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"He got married again because of lust"
Viserys didn't want to get married again at all! Wtf are you talking about lust? 🤣
His children are Deviants & Psychopaths because of the way their mother/Grandfather raised them while their father was to sick to even walk.
One of Viserys biggest mistakes BIGGEST is having Otto back as hand. He fired him and even told Otto "you are a man led by your own ambition" viserys knew how he wanted Aegon as king instead of his daughter. Makes me think Viserys wants his daughter as queen but truly always puts obstacles in her way.
Yes! Bringing back Otto was a huge mistake - it didn't help at all!
I found this really odd to be honest. There was a scene missing for me that would explain this decision by Viserys.
@@themoondeer1545 its not difficult to understand tbh. He probably did it to please Alicent.
@@mercuriology45 might be, but he said he doesn't trust Ottos motives anymore. That's a statement in my opinion where you can't come back later and say: „I changed my mind because my wife says so.“.
@@themoondeer1545 ngl knowing viserys and how ppl pleasing he is it wouldn’t be unbelievable. Which as you said its rlly stupid, because he literally fired Otto because he knew how ambitious and self serving he was
subscribed! the gripe i have with a lot of people in the comments saying that 'aemma would've died anyway' is that it ignores the context in which the decision was made, context that focuses on aemma the victim rather than viserys the perpetrator. these comments do not consider aemma as a person but just a means to an end, which is exactly how viserys saw her as well---no matter how much he says he loved her. aemma was forcefully held down, gutted open, and died screaming and begging viserys to stop. it was brutal murder and feeling sorry for viserys while turning a blind eye to how terrifying the situation must have been for aemma is, frankly, vile. not only is viserys a wholly incompetent king, he's a terrible family man as well, given that he only really cared for rhaenyra to compensate for his guilt about what he did to aemma. he didn't even do *that* well, given that he made no safeguards and no laws to strengthen rhaenyra's claim that he knows would be challenged. that's the whole reason why rhaenyra begged him to fight for her. he was made king because of a succession crisis, and he of all people should know that ambiguous succession rules would always be challenged. in fact, he made things even worse by ignoring the kids he had with alicent AND constantly disrespecting alicent herself, thereby increasing hostility. alicent was viserys' main caretaker and her side of the family was the one at his side when his illness got worse. despite that, viserys couldn't muster a morsel of care for any of them. i get why his kids with alicent weren't sad when he died, and why alicent has been so depressed and resentful.
and people forget that even *if* rhaenyra ascended to the throne, her heir is jace. a bastard. a bastard who everyone knows is a bastard. that's another succession crisis right there given that he's in the same age group as alicent's kids who have much better claims and aren't bastards. not to mention jace's half siblings aren't bastards as well. no way daemon would've let jace be king when aegon iii and viserys ii exist.
in the end, people are fighting for traditionalist conservatism (greens who want to preserve male-preference primogeniture and laws) or absolute monarchy (blacks who insist on the word of the king being law despite nothing else backing him up), which are ideas that should be unpalatable to the modern audience anyway.
Thanks for subscribing! I'm looking forward to reading your takes on future videos :)
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I really like what you said in the last sentence, OP about the ideas being unpalatable to the modern audience. I’ve noticed a lot of people watching the show often just gravitate towards likability and a lot of the politics gets forgotten. A lot of the modern audience kind of just accepts some aspects of Westeros meant to be looked at more critically (child marriage, Targaryen incest etc.) as part of the universe as much as ice zombies and dragons unless it’s more overtly framed as bad like ofc the sexism
This is such an intellectual and realistic opinion. I wish people were just as smart as you
What messes me up with Aemma is that she earlier just had a conversation with Viserys that she was done trying for more heirs, and apologizing because she knew he wanted that. Then after a difficult labor she sees him come to give comfort, only for then to be pulled down and cut open while he constantly says "Their getting the babe out". That was the biggest betrayal and he almost punishing her for not pumping out more kids in her mind,
Really appreciated the perspective here, though I think it does overlook the Greens ensuring Daemon would be disregarded as heir. He would've still been the obvious (and more usual) choice after Baelon's death.
However, Otto spent years discrediting Daemon, which is a big part of why Viserys chooses Rhaenyra instead. It's also Otto's testimony of Daemon's actions that is the final straw. There was really no succession crisis until Otto said there was one.
This also comes after nine years of Viserys not getting a male son. Which is why he is so quick to send over Alicent. He had plenty of time to plan ahead. Otto's influence there and his dismissal of Daemon leads to the eventual conflict, but is also the reason why Rhaenyra is a player at all.
That said, if Viserys had been a decisive king, there would've been no room for any such schemes. He could (and should) have put an end to this on so many occasions, which he failed to do at every turn.
As Daemon had told Viserys "You're weak"
I wish he realized Otto's plot sooner, especially before he announced his choice in 2nd marriage. I felt that choosing Alicent would completely divide Rhaenyra and Alicent's close friendship to another level. I miss them being friends, but they are not the little girls they used to be anymore.
If Viserys had agreed to a marriage proposal between Aegon and Rhaenyra, it would have solved a lot of problems. Instead, Aegon and Helaena got married which did bupkis except to reinforce pure Targaryen blood in future descendants.
It would still have caused a problem because the Greens would have had no use for Rhaenyra once she produced an heir resulting in disposing her the minute Viserys dies. Or Rheanrya would have disposed her husband once her father died. Rhaenyra was 10-15 years older than Aegon so at best she would have needed to wait 15 years to produce heirs with Aegon where her prime is past gone so another family would use that opportunity to marry into the royals with a young fertile daughter.
@@ChildOfTheFlower that’s a good point. I feel like the Dance was inevitable either way. If Rhaenyra had a daughter, she might have been able to negotiate a marriage with Aegon, but that’s only if Alicent would agree to it. And this daughter would have to be a firstborn and her heir to the throne. Which is also raises issues itself.
the goal is to avoid war and secure your succession to ensure a smooth transition of power. viserys fumbled on this at every step.
I think Lord Corlys would have created a succession crisis no matter what.
Even if Viserys never appointed Rhaenyra as his heir, and Daemon was left as the natural heir, I feel like upon his death Corlys would be pushing for the throne once again. That man was HORRIFICALLY ambitious and he wanted his heirs on the throne. He would've immediately started challenging Daemon as the heir.
This wasn't covered in the show, but Corlys was the whole reason that "The Great Council" happened in the first place. He was rallying his forces together to go to war to plant his son Laenor on the throne. Then after he arrived at the Great Council, he started using his power, influence, and money to bribe as many lords as he could to try to convince them to choose his son over Viserys as his line descended from the eldest son of the previous king while Visery's line descended from a younger son of that king.
Rhaenys was never really up for consideration, she was dismissed as an heir before all that council business even started and instead they focused on getting their son Laenor as the next king. But the lords of westeros chose Viserys because he was like 25 while Laenor was like 6 or something. No one wanted that child king and chose Viserys as he was an adult AND the last rider of Balerion the Dread.
The only reason Corlys didn't start a civil war then and there was because he knew since all the lords voted, that he was completely outmatched in his views and stood no chance.
If Viserys left succession alone, with Daemon, I think a lot of people would've been greatly uphappy. Daemon was not a popular guy because he had a lot of rage and a viscous streak. Corlys would've been trying to plant Laenor on the throne once again on Viserys' death.
And if Viserys named Rhaenyra his heir, but then never remarried, Corlys DEFINITELY would've started a civil war over it and have been gathering allies to that effect. The only reason his wife was never made queen is because custom and tradition meant women weren't allowed to rule, so for his wife to be passed over on that tradition then have to bend the knee to a ruling queen 20 years later, he would NEVER have accepted that.
The only way all issues could've been avoided is if Rhaenyra was made heir and then married to Laenor AND Viserys never remarried. This would've sated Corlys, as his heirs would then be on the throne and have the Velaryon name, would've prevented a rival challenge from any male children of Viserys, and I don't believe Daemon would've wanted to fight and kill his niece to take the throne, and he wouldn't have had the support to do so anyway.
Another possibility is if Rhaenyra and Daemon got married early on, never had bastards, and instead pumped out pure Targaryen children, then betrothed their heir to the Velaryon heir, presumably one of Laenor's children with some other woman. If all this took place before the death of Viserys, I think it also would've avoided war.
But both the High Towers and Velaryons were cunts who were happy to kill as many people as it took to get their seed on the throne. They were the problem makers because they had too much ambition and greed.
Not remarring is not an option. In 105 AC there was only 4 Targaryens alive. That was the lowest number of Targaryens in over a century. A bad year could end the whole house. For example, in 209 AC, four Targaryens died, and it was both the king and his three imediate heirs. With Daemon in a unfruitful marriage and Rhaenys married out of the house, there is only him and Rhaenyra, who is too young and could even die in childbirth like her mother and grandmother did. He NEEDED to remarry. The options to avoid the dance are:
1) Keep Daemon as heir, remarry, name Aegon as heir once he is born.
2) Marry Rhaenyra, keeping her as his heir, and making their son as her heir.
3) Name Aegon his heir when he is born, taking Rhaenyra out.
4) Marring Rhaenyra to Aegon and making one the ruler and the other the consort.
Disinheriting Rhaenyra once she gave birth to bastards would not prevent the dance, i think, but it would make the war easier for Aegon II and, as a consequence, less mortal.
The Hightowers and Velaryons aren't to blame. The Targaryens, Viserys himself, is why this happened.
Corlys, Rhaenys, Rhaenys' mother and her Baratheon Uncle, and Queen Alysanne were the ones all upset at Jaehaerys for making Baelon the new heir, and not Rhaenys. Then, Daemon saw this and, when Baelon (his dad) died, he gathered his loyal troops and was ready to wage war for Viserys.
So it's not on Corlys or the Hightower house for what happened, it was Viserys being an idiot.
@@vitoraugusto9596 Disinheriting Rheanyra once she birthed bastards would have prevented the war. Her only real motivation for fighting for the throne was the prophecy only she - the heir - was told. If he names Aegon heir instead and tells him, Rheanyra would have no motive and she has shown multiple times that she doesn’t care for duty that much. She only did it cause she felt she had to
@@vitoraugusto9596 That's VERY risky. More than a few times an heir or children in general die in freak accidents, or from a sickness, or in a fight. Both in real life and in ASOIAF history; there's been cases where multiple legible heirs died before the King did. So not marrying and risking the death of their House by leaving it in the hands of Rhaenyra alone was VERY dangerous and could very easily backfire.
@@rexibhazoboa7097 "she only did that because she had to" is just a excuse in the end. She wanted the power that was offered to her. To think that you would be the chosen one of a prophecy made over a century before is pure arrogance. She wanted power.
She would at least try to say that her bastards were legit like crazy, after all this time as heir. She would go to war alone and get stomped.
Another issue is Rhaenyra is her children. It doesn't help her cause that everyone knows her children are not her husbands. Bastards are fine as long as they're not raised to feel legitimate, because even if they don't succeed in overthrowing their half sibling or don't want to go after their half siblings' seat, their descendants might. It's one of the reasons why Catelyn Stark didn't like/felt threatened by the existence of Jon Snow
I do believe that Princess Rhaenys was done disservice, because based on both precedent and principal she should have been queen. I se this succession crisis as partially the consequences of King Jahaerys passing off one of the main duties of a king in Westeros (naming your heir) to others. That being said, Viserys, Otto, and Daemon share most of the blame. Viserys should have done more to insure that Rhaenyra's succession wouldn't be interrupted and the fact that he didn't just kind of proves that he was seriously considering naming Aegon as heir for some time, even if winded up not in the end.
The outcome would have been the same.
Jaehaerys had passed over Rhaenys in 92 AC after the death of Aemon, her father. He also wanted Vaegon to take the throne. However, since he refused (he was an Archmaester of the Citadel) and Jaehaerys was bedridden and couldn't enforce his decisions anymore, he called a Grand Council to settle the issue and avoid civil war between Viserys and Daemon Vs Rhaenys and Corlys.
Also at least in the book she wasnt a candidate, the final decision was between Viserys and Laenor, Laenor was a kid and Viserys was already married, also most Lords wanted the male line to be prefered
If Viserys was so adamant about Rhaenyra inheriting the throne then he should name her his hand after Lionel death. She would have learned how to rule under his supervision and naturally took more and more responsibilities as his health was worsening. Upon his death there would be no crisis coz she would have been the ruler in all but name for years and all important positions would be filled by people loyal to her.
After the first episode I was like wow an incompetent hero. Not a common game of thrones fate. He was not outsmarted, he was not betrayed, he built a house of cards (temporary solutions which are common in politics as a way of not offending a party by keeping both parties unsatisfied) and there was nothing else that could happen when he died but civil war. Otto was right
The eldest male descendant would have meant Agnatic (or male only aka Salic Law succession) primogeniture. Under males-prefered primogeniture Rhaenys would have taken the throne anyway as her father was the elder brother of father of Viserys and Daemon (just like Queen Victoria ascended to the British Throne and not her fathers younger brother after the death of her own father). Plus Jaehaerys also made the fault to skip over Rhaenys after her father's death, as she had the strongest claim to the throne following her father's death. And who cared about public opinion (the smallfolk) and it was only King's Landing. In addition Aegon never cared about ruling and seemed to be ok with Rhaenyra inheriting the Iron Throne, it were Alicant and Otto who forced his succession and therefore created the succession crisis. We should not forget that when Rhaenyra and Laenor were engaged, their fathers (Viserys and Corlys) agreed that their eldest child regardless of gender should one day succeed Rhaeyra after she in turn succeeded her father.
No one liked Rheanyra anyways. Especially in the latter stages of the conflict.
Also it is precisely the smallfolk of kings landing who end up slaughtering the dragons, ripping apart one of Rheanyra's sons from limb to limb and chase Rheanyra out of the city fearing for her life ....
I think it's okay to say that Viserys was a decent Man who just wasn't suited to be a King.
But man that walk to the throne room was still an all-time badass moment in franchise history.
A decent man who visibly ignored his 4 kids from his second marriage? Be fr! Decent man my ass, i hope jahaerys is whooping that good for nothing man's ass in the afterlife for ruining all his efforts to avoid war and ruining the realm.
He was more a King in death than in living
"This one has eyes, but I don't think it can see."
Much as I came to love Viserys, and huge props to Paddy for his performance, I think his actions more than vindicated Daemon's claim that he was 'weak.' His decisions, combined with his inability to ascertain their flaws and the flaws of those closest to him until it was too late (if at all), wind up being the root cause of the Dance.
1) Naming Rhaenyra heir instead of Daemon and changing the male inherit rule even though he himself was chosen king bc he was a male.
2) Re-marrying after naming his daughter heir
3) Re-marrying OTTO's daughter
3) Never settling the heir thing in front of lords after having 3 sons.
4) Biasedness towards Rhaenyra and completely ignoring his own family
5) Should've acknowledged Rhanerya's children as bastards and then maybe legitimised them after but ignored it even though it was obvious
6) Biggest one, Trusting Otto over his own brother and Corlys Valeryon
Otto has a big hand in the war but Viserys basically set it up. Also in the books, what he did to Vaemond Valeryon and his family was pure injustice knowing they were right the whole time.
An important mistake, my friend: Viserys DID have a male heir early on. His name was Daemon. The show states this clearly.
In a male-preferred primogeniture, uncles and nephews oftentimes come before daughters.
This was the case in Westeros, with Rhaenys being snubbed in favor of her uncle Baelon at first, then later for her cousin Viserys.
It was Otto who suggested switching to absolute primogeniture to keep his archnemisis from inheriting the throne. A decision that would come to bite him in the ass. 😂
Viserys didn't switch back after the birth of Aegon, Aemond and Daeron. However, he also never put 'the switch' into law.
And neither did Jaehaerys codify the rules of succession, this in spite of doing so earlier on with other common law in Westeros.
Jaehaerys, Viserys and even Otto all share the blame on this lack of clarity.
I think aemma would have died either way. The baby appears to have been breached and not able to come. They could have wait until she passed but it would be unknown if the baby would survive afterwards in the womb or the time limit they had to get the baby out.
Yeah, not a good situation either way, eh. I guess the show is trying to establish how Viserys will have to make hard decisions.
@@guihuppe oh Viserys is an awful king lol but i see what you mean with the show. Like how your channel is going too. Keep it up 😌
@@Nardaprada aaaaw thank you so much for your positive feedback! I hope to see you soon again on the channel! ✨
@@Nardaprada "Viserys is an awful king"
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@@guihuppe No matter what Viserys decides, he's screwed either way.
He should have wed Aegon to Rhanerya
Great Video! amazing visualization.
Thanks!!!
People keep forgetting how it's the people around Viserys fucking things up and causing instability. Otto lying to him about Daemon several times, splintering the brother's relationship further. Daemon spitefully starting sexual relations with Rhaenyra in a very open, obvious place like a brothel, defiling her and trying to hurt Viserys. Rhaenyra childishly satisfying her own passions by dishonouring the reluctant Criston, placing her virtue in question and then wholly lying about it to Alicent, only to do the same but now birthing 3 obvious bastards. Again, how Rhaenyra totally dismissed Viserys' entire line of potential suitors even when he was trying his best (while ensuring she, like everyone else, did her duty) to give her the opportunity for freedom of choice in who she married. As well, so many are ready to bring up the patriarchal repression of women like Rhaenyra in this society but nobody's remembering how Viserys, a man and one of the highest pillars of patriarchy, fought to the end to see his daughter's claim to the throne come to pass, to see her given the same opportunity of rule as a man. How he staggered, almost crawling to the throne off of his death bed to protect his daughter, a woman's mistakes of repeated hedonism over duty.
Otto didn't lied to him with deamon, everything else 100%right
@@alexandrosmironis6093 Thank you, yes apologies, I meant that Otto lied to Daemon ('Your brother would never come to entertain a mummer's farce' even though Viserys himself said he would go to Dragonstone) although as well, I think the implication was that he lied about the manner which Daemon was speaking of Baelor, telling Viserys, Daemon was celebrating when Daemon said 'we all mourn in our own way'?
Otto never once lied to him about Daemon, though. Seriously, Daemon was a jackass and a loose cannon; he didn't need to make anything up about the man.
Edit: But tbf, Otto wasn't exactly entirely loyal either. If Otto was a truly loyal servant, he'd always remind the King that despite Daemon's actions, he did truly love him.
Love your videos!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 you’re so right.
Thanks Ana! It's great to see you again on the channel!
Just finding your channel and I love this video:) Well done:) Subscribed!!!
Aaaaaw thank you so much! I'm looking forward to seeing you on the channel soon!
Good job bro💪🏾 You make good videos
Aaaw thank you!!
Great content!
Thanks a lot! Glad you liked it ✨ hope to see you on the channel again!
I think it needs to be understood that viserys didnt choose the baby over his wife, Aemma was dying anyway, it was a question of whether they would save the baby or not, having said that the real issue was that he didnt ask Aemma and like just had them cut her open
he forced her to have that pregnancy though, in search of a son. she suffered so many miscarriages and fertility issues that probably everyone knew she would die in childbirth due to viserys' obsession to have a prophesied son.
I like the background music 🎼 and I agree with your opinion in regards to the succession crisis
Well done and well said.
Thanks for your comment and support!
Your channel is really high quality for the number of subs. Impressive.
Thank you!!
Spot on analysis, good points, I have been saying Viserys might have been a "nice guy" but he was a terrible king.
Viserys was very clear about his succession. He made it at the end of episode 1. However, Rhaenyra did almost everything she could to undermine her own position. She didn't take picking a spouse the seriousness it demanded, she lost her virginity out of wedlock and worst of all she had multiple bastards that every single lord knew weren't legitimate. A woman was going to sit on the Iron Throne and was going to have bastards take over Driftmark and the Iron Throne.
Completely obscene. Rhaenyra cause the succession crisis not Viserys.
I disagree with your initial point.
The two systems proposed at the Great Council were Absolute Primogeniture, OR Male PREFERENCE Primogeniture, and Male ONLY Primogeniture. Rhaenys was the eldest child of the eldest son of the monarch. Therefore in both absolute Primogeniture and male-preference primogeniture, she'd be the heir.
Therefore, Viserys's decision to name Rhaenyra heir was IN DIRECT opposition to the precedent set. Rhaenyra LITTERALY says that on the first episode. "A woman would NOT sit on the iron throne" = Agnatic Primogeniture.
Are you going to make a video about Otto creating this Because he pushed for Rhaenrya to put on the Throne as a place holder to get Daemon out of the way
I had a similar line of thinking as well. Viserys made all the wrong decisions after Rhaenyra was put on the Throne, but she wouldn't have been considered at all if Otto hadn't strategically gotten rid of Daemon.
Otto was just a man seeking power and was playing with what he got. No one could predict that Viserys would go against the common sense and keep Rhaenyra as his heir once Aegon is born.
And to be fair, Daemon would probably be disinherited sooner or later if he still tried to seduce Rhaenyra.
@@vitoraugusto9596 i still don’t see how that changes anything just say you like his plot it was well done
Very pleasant video to watch.
I'd just like to correct 2 or 3 little details :
1rst, in the show it is clearly said that Aemma is gonna die. The only choice left is cutting her alive or leave the nature kill them.
2nd the Great council didn't edict a Law. If there had a well established Law, Jaehaerys wouldn't have to convoque The great council. It was bad not to designate his heir himself.
The lords voted between 14 claimers, not 2. In the Book, the main were Laenor (not Rhaenys) and Viserys.
3rd Viserys had a rightful heir : his younger brother Daemon. But as Otto hated him, he suggested the King to name Rhaenyra his heir (against Lyonel and Corlys advice).
4) Even after chosing Rhaenyra his heir, Viserys 's duty was to have other children. Remember that Jaehaerys had 13 children (7 boys) but none left to inherit the throne !!
5) ... Sorry for my english. I'm not as fluent as you, so far ! 😉
Guess I'm gonna have to wait for two days~
Yup, great analysis and astute take!
That many many, far too many just chose to not see.
Like Viserys ignored everything around him, even as where everything was heading towards .
War, was obvious to literally everyone else.
To Lyonel Rhaenys Otto Rhaenyra etc etc
The issue with Viserys is that he is a people pleaser through and through, and he refused to accept the responsibility of him living that way. Even before he became bed bound and had the milk of poppy ruin his mind, he let others walk all over him, and if he had only stuck up for himself and not focused on chasing a stupid prophecy , many of the problem that destroyed his own family would not have come about. Additionally, Viserys was also a terrible father both to Rhaenyra and to Alicent's children which further sowed division between the two sides and allowed Otto a lot more free reign in manipulating the green agenda.
I love your account. Just recently found you. Hope you get more views soon.
Aaaaw thank you so much - much appreciated! I hope to see you again on the channel :)
@@guihuppe do you have Instagram?
@@themoondeer1545 Hey! I don't have a public Instagram atm - thanks for asking!
@@guihuppe too bad, but thanks for answering. :3
There! You said it! He should have had Rhaenyra marry and produce heirs instead of himself. It would have the same effect of him having more children. In case of something happening to Rhaenyra the throne would not be left without heirs but this time they would be Rhaenyra's own children so they would not challenge her claim! Like how difficult is that to see? Furthermore, the father of those children should have been Daemon. That would end Daemon's efforts to prove himself and would prevent any of his descendants challenging Rhaenyra's descendants since they would have a claim based on male primogenitor if Viserys wasn't going to remarry. It would have then been perfect if Rheanyra and Daemon's first born child was married to one of Laenor's so as to shut up the Velaryans over Rheanys's claim. Or he could have had Rhaenyra marry Laenor and then marry their first born child to one of Daemon's. Either way he should have brought the two other contestants: Daemon and Rheanys to the table to abolish all obstacles to Rheanyra's claim, not go around and make more obstacles! How could he not see it? HOw? I've never seen anyone stupider than Viserys in my entire life. It's almost like he wanted to start a civil war on purpose.
Naming the heir itself is a problem because the succession always passed by inheritance. The only time there was ambiguity over the succession because the heirs were all dead, the king (at that time Jaehaerys) did not name an heir but instead called for a council.
What you did not mention is the fact that Rhaenyra wasn't even Viserys's heir at the beginning. They named her when Baelor didn't survive to avoid Deamon. She was not an option for Viserys back then. When they named her, her heirship was backed only by Andal law which allows women to rule when there is no firstborn son. Even Targaryens themselves never allowed women to sit on the Iron Throne since the Conquest. Rhaena and Daenerys were both Aenys and Jaehaery's eldest children respectively but the succession pass them because they were women.
Rhaenyra lost her heir status the moment the king has a son. A son (Aegon) who automatically become the heir by inheritance as the king's firstborn son according to Andal law, the Great Council, and precedent.
I think Viserys was forced to marry to secure the survival of the dynasty. The mistake was not marrying Alicent but naming Rhaenyra (a woman) heir without calling for a change of laws of succession to allow women the right to inherit the iron throne.
I'm just curious why the Christmas music in the background? 🤣
Best solution would have simply been to never declare Rhaenyra his heir in the first place.
Also, Viseys definetly had to remarry. He couldn't count on the 50/50 chance that Rhaenyra would live long enough to succeed him.
It's a medieval society, dude. Jaehaerys had 13 children, of which only 2 survived their parents.
Both Rhaenyra's mother and grandmother had died during labor.
The risk was massive.
viserys the peaceful my ass.. i always hated him whenever he's in the scene. btw loooove this vid analysis !!
You forgot one thing. Vicerys was not obligated to change his heir. Nor did he. The greens snuck Aegon onto the throne.
Viserys could have married Aegon to Rhaenyra but at the time Otto made the suggestion, Aegon is still 11-13 years away from being able to have kids. That gives Rhaenyra as much time to screw around with Harwin. Imagine the succession crisis if Rhaenyra had kids before Aegon is physically able to father them...
that would never happen. firstly because any kids born before aegon is even of age would obviously be bastards and tossed out as illegitimate, but secondly because not even rhaenyra would be so stupid as to have bastards without knowing she had a legal husband who she could pass off as the father.
Viserys just lets the marriage with Alicent happen out of pure convenience, he's the type of guy who needs a woman to take care of him and here she is, he doesn't waste a thought on the consequences for Rhaenyra or anyone else.
Ohhh Viserys, Great family man(with his immediate family) , very poor king…
Sorry, but I wanted to point out one thing: isn't the succession rule the Salic Law, instead of the male-preferred primogeniture, before the King nominated his heir his daughter? As Demon was supposed to be the next King, the male brother come before the daughter.
7:00 "dis" doesn't have an apostrophe behind it, it's not a contraction. It could be considered a word in AAVE equivalent to "this". But it is not a contraction or a sign of someone who can't speak English.
The Great Council didn't set a precedent, Westeros isn't a democracy. The kings word is law, and can name whomever he wants as heir. The Hightowers, and the Lords that broke their vows of fealty to Viserys and Rhaenyra are the ones that created a crisis. Viserys clearly stated his marriage to Alicent WAS NOT for matters of state.
0:01 “Season 1 of hot D was a WILD ride”😂
The things you say are correct..but nevertheless i would call Ol Vis the best ON-screen King of Westeros and he definitely does not deserve the title "terrible king".
Imagine you are a normal citizen of Westeros than you might look back at Viserys's rule as the good old times. The realm seems prosperous...and the ruler leaves the people alone while also keeping all his subjects in check...and keeping the order in the realms. No Rebellions, no civil wars, and a lot of big parties for the nobles.
I think Vis was actually pretty good at managing people. Take Daemon who was/is a total wild card..and who might have ambitions for the throne.
Vis actually used his mixture of toughness, kindness and ignoring him or letting others handle situations with him and turned Daemon into a loyal subject that wouldn't even go against him when he was totally weak. We always think that all of that was Daemons choice...based on brotherly love, but we can also say that if Viserys would have acted differently (like trying to kill Daemon or sending an army to Dragonstone to capture him or giving him too much power) he wouldn'T have made those choices. In fact I would argue that Daemon could have easily gone against his brother...before and especially after he married Rhaenyra.
Leaving Daemon alone seemed to be the right strategy to not cause Daemon to rebell.
Also all the Lords knew their place and kind of respected him enough to leave him alone and we see how even Aegon had to buy their loyalty and even Rhaenyras Dragons didn't scare them enough to be loyal. Viz didn'T had to bribe or threaten his subjects. And before people call him weak...we musn'T forget that he had no problem to anger powerful players like the Valeryons...(a thing his daughter can hardly afford) but he also understood that them being angry is a natural reaction and not punishable. And he understood that he had to throw them a bone later. And Laenor wasn'T a bad choice. As far as I can tell from the show he was a good and loyal husband and him being gay shouldn'T have been a problem. What "ruined" the marriage wasn'T Laenor but the relation between Daemon and Rhaenyra..otherwise they could have ruled as Queen and Regent, and with him in the picture it would have been a lot harder for Aegon to claim the throne since there WAS a male Valyrian and the "we can'T have a female ruler" argument would be a lot weaker. So he could not anticipate that Laenor chickens outs.
And about his rule..he wasn't cruel or incompetent, or lazy. And he even chose a queen that was able to do a good job running the place.
He didn't waste his man in wars and the realm seems to be peaceful and prosperous
We can see him as weak because he didn't defended the Stepstones...but we see that just conquering them did not solve the problem and did not risk a full scale war with the Trirarchy. Who knows how that would have ended?
And to be fair...a LOT of, it fnot most great kings in our real world had serious succession crises.
Carl the Great, Alexander the Great, Dschingis Khan etc..
So all in all in my opinion...if I had the choice to live in Westeros under any ruler (i know from TV shows) it would be him...even with all his flaws and mistakes.
Aegon is the righful king. If you don't agree, ask Jane Grey.
@Gui Huppé You dont mention Rhaynera's follys in creating the crisis.
For one example she does not take a husband until she forced to. Had she built the ground around her with a husband and a child she could have entreched her postion far earlier.
She is far more interested in having fun than securing her postion.
The CK 2 experience lmao.
I think the war was going to be avoided right up until the point vhagar ate lucarys
Yes you are right viserys is a full
I agreed with most of what you say, but just to correct, Viserys was not in a position to save the boy or Aemma. He was told she would die anyhow but he could save the child or lose both. Still an awful choice, but it does change the game completely
Viserys declared his heir. And Viserys ruled and reigned without a load of bloodshed, but, but maybe not the best. Rhaenyra created(or added to) her succession crisis.
one thing i think the show failed to articulate is that andal succession goes 'sons before daughters, daughters before uncles', meaning rhaenys, daughter of eldest son aemon, was the rightful heir. jaehaerys did not want rhaenys to inherit, passing her and her son laenor over for rhaenys' uncle baelon and his sons. this was going *against* andal law - putting an uncle/cousin ahead of a daughter - so he sought permission from his lords to do this.
this is why alicent saying rhaenys should've been queen is *not* hypocritical. because under andal law, she would have been. sons before daughters, daughters before uncles. jaehaerys decided to overlook the law in favour of absolutist precedents and exceptions due to his personal bias against rhaenys.
which creates the legalism vs absolutism foundation of the dance
Otto is missing a lot of Blame in this video
otto clearly wants his grandson on the throne, but that would have been the case with every hand or lord, corlys would have been the same of worse if laena had a son with viserys
@@agahpito902 he is still fairly guilty for the decisions he took. Regardless if other characters wouldve taken the sams decision. A lot of his decisions will end up backfiring to him.
Daemon too.
Rhaenyra wouldn't get the throne regardless of the gender of the baby. The first in line according to the Great Council was Daemon, the King's brother. Rhaenyra herself tells Viserys "Daemon is your heir", everybody was aware of it.
I know it's started up front that you're only analyzing the show; but, I feel the adaptation falls down here as the great council of 101 is not about if princess Rhaenys, as eldest, will inherent over prince Visarys but if her son Leanor Valaryon will be made heir. The councils' decision concluded that inheritance cannot pass via the maternal line (also Laenor was 5 or 6). So it's not as precedent breaking when he declares Rhaenyra heir as she inherits via his line and carries the Targaryan name.
Visarys *should* have dissolved Deamon's marriage to Rhaya Royce ( on the grounds of non consummation) and had Rhaenyra and Deamon marry. Daemon was Visarys' presumptive heir as the only male in line. Having them marry means Visarys could skip over Daemon (doubt he'd put up to much fight if it was over his own son) and name their first born son as heir; if he never produced male issue.
You are correct that naming Rhaenyra heir BEFORE remarriage then not naming his son as heir was practically asking for a succesion crisis and civil war.
The assertation that Aegon has support from the small folk is sort of strange. Aegon doesn't have any real support outside of perception of legitimacy. The real issue is that Rhaenyra's support has dissolved due to the scandal of her sons' legitimacy and the death of Laenor Valaryon; this, and marrying Daemon made her unpopular.
Hope this gets more views because Viserys was shitty in every whichever way possible.
Even monarchies cannot function without a basic framework of laws & not just by “it was duh kang’s word”. Otherwise, if a king as influential as Jaehaerys' word meant nothing soon as he died, then why should Viserys' word mean anything after his death? The Great Council was clearly a legal body, in style of the Zemsky Sobor that chose the Russian Tsar, meant to set precedent for all future successions. Here's why : the Small Council advises the king. It does not officially vote a ruling into existence. But Jaehaerys didn't say "the Great Council simply advised me and I chose the king", he deferred to the Great Council's vote entirely. The king wasn't chosen by the Great Council's "advise", it was chosen by the Council's "vote". Which means it was defacto a law making body. And more importantly, I believe Viserys cannot overturn a precedent that made him king in the first place, without illegitimating his own reign.
Just take a second to think how hypocritical that was for Viserys. Rhaenys' line WAS the rightful heir as Aemon's daughter, but the Great Council chose Viserys because he was a man. They exercised male primogeniture, therefore setting it as a precedent. Westeros is not male exclusive but with rare exceptions the inheritance has always passed to the male son first. A precedent which Rhaenyra Targaryen and her sons happily affirmed when she had multiple opportunities to press Baela's claim, or that of the elder daughters of Rosby, Stokeworth etc, and bypassed them for male heirs. Even when she was winning the war. Ask Viserys II how he felt about Daena's claim to the throne!! I guess the OG Viserys would've done well to remember what Jace said in the show, "a king should honor the traditions of his forebears".
This whole thing about the king's "wish". It is an illusion and completely dependent on what he can and cannot enforce. Power resides where men believe it resides. The kings who succeeded, like Jaehaerys or Daeron II, all understood the necessity of compromise along with force. Viserys had no ability to enforce his decision. Therefore the blame lies on him for going forward with it. Unless one considers Viserys some kind of a mythical god, then there was no reason for the Greens to abide by his pie in the sky delusions. If everyone else wanted Rhaenyra there would've been no civil war and the Hightowers would've been crushed. But instead the 3 richest kingdoms supported Aegon.
Actually,, male preference primogeniture was already in place in Westeros in general, and Targaryens had accepted it from the start. If they hadn't, if it had been absolute primogeniture as in Dorne, then Visenya would have been the ruling queen and Aegon the Conqueror just a consort, and she would have been succeeded by her son Maegor. Jaehaerys I also had an elder sister, Rhaena, who was alive when he took the throne.
But Rhaenys would have been the ruling Queen by custom and tradition of male preference primogeniture, because she was the only child of the elder son, Aemon, while Viserys and Daemon were the sons of the YOUNGER son, Baelon.
The show didn't make that clear because it called Rhaenys "eldest descendant" of the old king Jaehaerys, but the more relevant fact was that she was the child of the elder son of Jaehaerys. I guess they wanted to simplify things (one of the very few examples of HotD dumbing things down for the audience).
Rhaenys' and Rhaenyra's situations are not the same. Rhaenys would have been heir and ruler by the custom and tradition. Rhaenyra would not.
The Great Council only confirmed that the lords of the realm overwhelmingly favor men over women as rulers. (Viserys was behind Rhaenys in the line of succession and didn't even have a dragon.)
Whether it set any kind of precedent is questionable. Clearly Viserys didn't think that way when he named Rhaenyra his heir, and the others accepted it. (Also, another Great Council a century later still took a young gril's claim into consideration before dismissing it, which would not have been the case if anyone really thought a 'precedent' of 'no women rulers' had been set.)
So let's just forget the Great Council, shall we?
Aegon's claim is based on the custom and tradition and the usual hereditary rules, he doesn't even need the Great Council.
However, Rhaenyra's claim is based on the fact that Viserys chose her as his heir and that the lords of the realm accepted that and gave her their oaths. Viserys had a precedent for that: years before the Great Council, Jaehaerys I was the first who first messed up the rules when, after the death of prince Aemon, his elder son and heir, he choose Prince Baelon, his younger son, as heir, instead of Aemon's young daughter Rhaenys. He set the precedent that the King can choose his heir. Viserys followed suit.
The Greens and the Blacks both can cite reasons for their claims, but the Greens ruined their credibility and claim to legitimacy when they waited for Viserys to die to stage a coup, instead of pressing the matter while he was alive and asking Viserys to call another Great Council.
So, just in terms of her own succession, Rhaenyra is right.
However, she ruined her credibility by lying about her sons' parentage and passing illegitimate children as her heirs, which could get her accused of treason. To make it clear, having illegitimate children is not the issue, but lying about it and trying to pass them as legitimate heirs could be cause for a high treason accusation. And even without that, trying to cheat the rules of inheritance and threatening people who speak the truth that everyone can see, ruins political credibility.
So, basically neither of the sides really has the moral high ground.
Everything was his fault he did not prepare rhaenyra for succession setting her up from the start, he did not intervene when both families were pitted against each other, he was neglectful to the children he had with Alicent the civil war was literally brewing under his feet and he did nothing to put a stop to it permanently it only took his death for them to fully start fighting each other and not to mention what he did to his first wife yeah viserys should’ve never been made king
Viserys could have also abdicated on grounds of his ill health in favour of Rhaenyra
Even if I'm opposed to Aegon personally, i have to concede his claim is stronger than Rheanyra's.
If the Old king married Princess Rhaenys to Prince Viserys the problem is solved. No great council, no dance.
His only mistake was to have another child/ren from another house. This is also done many times historically, it gives a reason for a lot figures to plot other successors which would benefit them more.
In this context, House Targaryen has fucking dragons, tbh it doesnt matter what other kingdoms thinks or likes. If He didnt had any other children, it would be fine because either Daemon or Rhaenyra could easily take the throne by force or other ways. But when he had "official Targaryen boys" from another house, naturally it also creates a birth right whatever he says it wont change it. Because as the History showed us, A Kings words only last till his death, sometimes even shorter than that.
So he shouldnt put his dick to his daughters friend lol. Or he could also resign from the throne while being alive and acted as a consulate to Rhaenyra. That would make her position stronger and claim more liable.
There is some logic to him marrying and having another child. What would happen if Rhynera died with no children? Now the king has no heir. And what would happen if he then died without another heir? Who would sit the throne then?
Viserys thinks about blood also. Though targaryns worshipping the seven but andal blood cannot create the prince who promised. It will be blood of First men and Targaryn who practice other gods and magic. After the Dance it was established. The blood of real dragon came into power. No targaryns ever married a tyrell, lannister.
Viserys should’ve made Daemon his hand. Yes, he’s violent, but he’s also an extreme pragmatist which is a noble quality to possess in a world like Westeros. And with Daemon being his brother, I have no doubt that he would’ve been a good councilor to Viserys since they both had love for each other.
Daemon was everything Viserys wasn’t…a hard man who’s no stranger to violence and Viserys a kind and loving person whose first response was to talk things through rather than using soldiers and dragons as his answer. The two would’ve been a good combination because with Daemon on his side, Viserys would’ve been both feared and loved and nobody would ever dare to challenge Rhaenyra’s ascension to the Iron Throne…Also, Viserys never would’ve married Alicent because with Otto being stripped of his power as his hand, not only would he have no way to seduce the king by using his daughter, but both he and Alicent would’ve went back to Oldtown being far away from court. Daemon didn’t listen to anybody more than Viserys so he would’ve been loyal as well.
I think there's also this level arrogance mixed with laziness on Viserys and Rhaenyra's part; like, 'oh we are blood of Old Valyria and we are descendants of Aegon the Conqueror, we don't have to try too hard.' I love the nuance takes you have on the Greens as well.
Are you aware of the fan-theory of 'Maester Conspiracy?' The belief that the Hightowers conspired with the maesters to neglect Aemma during her various pregnancies and causing Viserys' wounds not to heal properly. It isn't confirmed, just a fun fan-theory.
I hate that the show screws up the council of 101. Rhaenys was never in contention to be Queen, it was her son Laenor vs Viserys as the primary candidates. It was Male preferred from the onset.
Based on Henry the First of England
How did he, he named his heir and people didn’t listen no matter how many times he said his daughter was his heir, that’s not his fault.
He didn't pick between his son and his wife. She was going to die anyway. So he had the choice of losing his wife and his son. That or lose his wife to save his son. Hands down it was such a hard scene to watch .
That's kind of callous to say considering that Aemma didn't even want to be pregnant again to begin with. Like, don't get me wrong, I agree that when it came down to it, he made an unfortunately logical choice, but to just write it off as an "she was gonna die anyway" is kinda cruel.
He SHOULD have told her, she would have understood as a mother. Instead of her final thoughts being that she had just told him she was done popping out babies and then he later cuts one out of her. You have to remember the Maesters had not told her the baby was breached or what not, she just thought it was a really bad labor
@@Ashbrash1998 People seem to forget the bits where she gasped out "What's going on?"
About king vis his decision between wife and baby. Queen emma would have died anyway. So it wasnt a life or death desision for emma. So doing cesarion was in the hope the baby would at least survive. Sadly it didnt.
You leave my boy Vizzy alone 😭
All Viserys had to do was not to marry again. Possible spoilers - 2/3 of Westeros sided with Rhaenyra, it's about 55 houses, and fight for her even atfer her death, while Aegon - about 28 (+/- 1 house for both) and the most painful blow for the greens was that the Tyrells remained neutral and when R died, his allies were in a very precarious position in every sense. Viseys had no reason to renew vows and, he just needed to carefully look after his wife and point her to her place. There was no any low of succession and he needed to write an order but 'it will sort itself out somehow'
All minor houses execpt the velaryons and the vale may be the starks who were late to the party. Aegons had the richest and most powerful houses + all the institutions of Westeros King's Landing(the iron throne), The faith and the Citadel.
@@bass9052 and then these minor houses kept fighting for Rhaenyra's side even after her death. Aegon was poisoned by his own people and his allies were meh.
@@talrasha1985 the realm was at ruin because of the conflict. There is no winners in wars. Aegon died by trahison not because of the black's exploit.
Viserys was not a son nor a first son of a king. Also, the male primogenity culture is of the Andal people, from whom MOST of the westerosi lords come from, with the most proeminent excepcions of Dorne, The North and the Targaryen. So it was obvious from the beggining that the Council would choose him.
I don't think it's as easy as to say he shouldn't have remarried. Rhaenyra could have died unexpectedly, by disease, childbirth, bad luck, whatever. Viserys NEEDED to procreate because if that would have happened house Targaryen would have ended. His mistake was either to not have claimed Targaryen exception; which was declared for Jahearys too when he married his sister, because the faith turned againsst him as well when he did (he didn't just conquer the continent like Aegon I). Viserys rule of exception could have made Targaryen the only house to favor women over males (like in Dhorne), whilst other houses could keep using their traditional male preferred way of inheriting.
Fine analysis, but I'd really disagree with the rules of succession.
The moment Viserys remarried
it'll bring Doom to Rhaenyra and everything so on to King Aerys.
im just surprised it still last another 300 years
Nothing how many times have you gone over the original source material which would be before fire and blood? Cuz the novella is specifically just this part and it actually begins the way the first season ends and everything before that is a different novella about Damon only?
There's a lot of extra stuff in both novellas and there alot shorter
And if you've read fire and blood then you know whose children end up in power in terms of who's making the next generation
I think it’s unfair to say that Viserys shouldn’t have remarried, because In medieval times there is a very real possibility that Rhaneara just dies
not a good king but a good man.
It's a very interesting conflict. It is ironic to me because Aegon is a terrible and cruel person, is not liked by his own family, and doesn't even want the role. Rhaenyra wants the role and by all accounts would make a good ruler. Yet the powers at play thrust Aegon onto the throne because they think it's what's "best". Tradition vs. pragmatism.
Rhaenyra would be awful. You’re really bad at understanding politics if you can’t see this. She’s not as hateful as Aegon but you can’t call someone a good ruler when they don’t understand why having 3 bastards is so problematic. I mean… she created a good part of the problem.
Came here for GOT lore but stayed cuz the background music, soothing voice and also your hot. 😂❤🐉
I was not expecting that this morning! 😂 Thanks Liam!
Viserys got backstabbed again by Otto
In other news: water gets you wet.