S4 E19. We test custom engine controls on the AMR500 supercharged diesel Honda insight.
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Season 4 Episode 19. Jimbo test the custom built electronic engine controls on the 719 cc supercharged Kubota diesel engine in the Honda Insight. Along the way ,Jimbo encounters problems and tries tweaking the software on the Arduino UNO he is using to run the engine controls. Will a code change fix the problem, tune in and find out.
Robot Cantina
207 S. Sedgwick Ave
P.O. Box 28
Haven KS, 67543
I'm on vacation visiting my octogenarian parents, Dad says "Whatcha watching?"
"There's a madman in Kansas who's swapped a compact tractor diesel engine into a first gen Insight."
Dad: "Oh, cool! Turn it up."
He’s one of us!
I like you guys. My dad is in his 60s and while I thought this kind of stuff is right up his alley, he didn't seem too interested. I'm glad you get to share it with your pop 😎
Fuel economy - yes please.
Do you thing you can get it to 100+ mpg?
I helped my Dad pick up a yacht today, beautiful little wooden thing, hand built by the owner with *His* dad 30 odd years ago. He's to old to sail her, just wants her to a good home (although Dad paid 2x his asking price, and it still was a bargin). Turns out we all followed some of the same RUclips channels. not Robot Cantina unfortunately, but I thought It pretty cool 3 guys in their 80's, 60's n 30's were all on the same page. I think he was pretty pleased his tub was going to a good place. I almost felt we were driving off with his daughter...
Yes! Push the limits of fuel efficiency
When you are the one doing your own programming, I don't think it's Orwellian. Let's see a performance setting and a fuel sipper setting! Awesome work, Jimbo!
Agreed.
I third the simple 1-3 settings.
Same if they release the source code
Fuel sipper? It's already running in the 3 L / 100km territory...
@zoe..d I bet he could squeez a couple more mpg out of it. Why not?
Personally, I’d like to see all of the capabilities of this neat little car tested.
I'm absolutely interested in fuel economy results; it's a different kind of high performance and frankly the kind of performance this vehicle was designed to provide. But I'm along for whatever ride you take, Jimbo.
Agreed 👍🏾 fuel economy is also a performance challenge
I need a compilation of every time Jimbo lets out a disappointed "Hmmm..."
May do that.... Hmmm
HAHAHAHAHA 👍
Happy Memorial Day weekend all you Cantina nerds.
Same to you my friend
🤓
I like having an eco button when I'm broke at the end of the month.
Regular Drive mode around town.
And Sport mode when I need a little extra.
Lol idk why , but I feel this deeply and it made me bust out laughing when I read it 😅.. peace and love
Im on eco mode right now....lol
@@will7its i been on eco mode for a couple years now...
@@Dratchev241 Yeah, 😆I hear you.....
I just drive a manual. You have to watch your mood to change your driving mode.
As a big fan of knobs that make more power when you turn them……I approve! 🤣
I have a turbo boost button in both my 7th gen Accord and my first-gen Insight.
It's the button that turns the AC off. :D
@@IstasPumaNevada yep, I have a 99 f350 with the 7.3 powerstroke. My knob takes it from stock up to 400ish horse. Gotta love turbo noises!
@@IstasPumaNevada I had a Saturn that I did the same thing🤣 ac off when you’re passing!
Wow, that storm was nasty. Glad you are safe, Jimbo.
I would definitely love to see you maximize fuel efficiency
“I prefer not to rely on a software fix to correct a hardware problem.” As an embedded systems firmware developer, that is 90% of my job! 😂 We already have 1000 of those bad PCAs, fix it in firmware!
LOL, When I said that, I originally flashed a picture of a Boeing 737MAX... My brother convinced me to edit out the picture of the airplane.
@@robotcantina8957 Don't worry it would have been removed by a recently implimented RUclips AI program that would have then labled your account as "racist".
@@WalkiTalki LOL.... its scary, but probably true.
Embedded hardware engineer here. I'm always amazed at how the software team misuse hardware features that were added to make the software easier/more efficient/feature rich. 😂
I had a real chuckle at the end because Usagi Electric released a video titled "Software Problems? Hardware Solutions!" simultaneously with this one.
Lol I was 41th to see this 😁 Greetings from Hungary (metric world)
Greetings!
mode-switch: Performance/Efficiency sounds like an amazing feature to have!
Amazing knowledge... Can't wait for this baby to go 0-60
Fingers crossed!
Knowing you had a bad storm and survived it has eased my withdrawal symptoms. Glad you're okay and you're back with another episode. It's really been fun living vicariously through you and these projects.😁
Happy Memorial Day Jimbo, family and to us viewers. It is coming along great Jimbo. I am glad your safe through those storms. I look forward to next week. To answer the question, yes a video on making the mpg the highest you can would be great. Thank you Jimbo.
Thanks 👍
You just keep banging it out of the park. Great videos for sure. Have a blessed week.
Thanks, you too!
OOooo more technical stepper programming stuff. great video brother!
Fuel efficiency is probably more impressive than power really. I had a 78 LeBaron that with stock setup could get well over 20 somtimes 26mpg when cruising. 40 years later most sedans still didnt get much better even though they had far more hp's and gears. The Chrysler only had 140hp's and 3 gears.
I would like to see efficiency be a goal but think there should be a line drawn for a speed time. 0-60 times would seem more comfortable and safe in the low 20's or figure a time for 0-50. Your driving it and probably have a good idea of what safe would be on today's highways.
Side note-I drove an early 2000 Smart Car once on the highway and it was not safe pulling out in traffic in my opinion.
Fantastic video. I’ve been programming for 30 years and I always get a little thrill when I can make a tiny change in my code that has a significant effect in the “real world”. Computers were intended to make our lives easier, after all!
That's some pretty impressive engineering there mister. Talk about fine tuning.
Put a button that says "maximum overdrive" 😂😂😂
I rewire guitars and basses for friends (and occasional customers). CTS is the brand name potentiometers used by Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker as OEM on older units, and current "custom shop" and high end versions of their products. The company has been around since they were "Chicago Telephone Service" and are an aerospace supplier these days, that still makes potentiometers as part of their catalog. They make what's called 'A' (audio curve) and "B' ( linear curve) potentiometers in all standard resistances. Audio has a curve stacked more towards the upper half of the curve for volume and tone applications, because you aren't looking down at the controls on a guitar when you dial in a specific value. Linear tends to be used in applications that require more "precision" control.
Their 1/4 inch shaft "American Spec" has been an industry standard since tubes were cutting edge technology. I replace the smaller "mini pots" used on lower level instruments to save money because of their higher quality of manufacture, and better feel and precise control.
At $5-10 (US) they're a nice upgrade when you value precision.
Anyways, Happy Memorial Day.
The pots I'm using were salvaged from some high end industrial equipment. They are the linear type.
Bravo on your success!! While the extra week wait was sad, the end results was well worth the wait. Your technical explanation and graphics of how all this kit fits together is top notch. Please keep going to see how far you can push this experiment. Its always “good TV” watching how things develop in your workshop (the good, the bad and the ugly). Well done getting your gnomes, with their cardboard aided design kit, geting everything to fit. You may need to give them a bit more on screen time as compensation for their assistance behind the scenes.
I was concerned that the IAC valve would not have enough strength to fight against fuel rail pressures, but I think in this configuration its only adjusting the governor stop, not actually adjusting/fighting fuel rail pressures (but that’s just a guess). So this should work just fine for a governor stop as you have proven.
Of course the enginenerd in me is wondering about NOx levels in the exhaust, or is that even important for fuel economy testing on a budget (I understand not the focus of this project, but it might be useful as you search for “mo pow-wa”)? For on the cheap, a rolling coal test, should also give you a feel of how well the combustion is working. I know I’ve seen in the past a NOx sensor that had a CAN buss interface for an arduino (with code examples) but I can’t seem to find it at the moment. It might be an interesting value to know down the road if the project ever shifts to squeezing every bit of mpg out of that little engine.
I’m always looking forward to next weeks sunday morning adventures...
The gizmo is both a hard stopping point for the rack and it can push the rack back when required. At some point in the video I do mention that I was able to adjust the position of the rack when the accelerator was floored. The IAC motor seems to have enough power to push back on the rack and overrule the governor.
Fuel efficiency would be nice to see and also protection in the software when it comes to the EGT temps
This is certainly one of the most primitive electronic diesel fuel injection systems ever installed on a car driven on the road for any duration of time. God it's impresssive though...
If you're going to push fuel efficiency as far as possible I'd consider having some form of memory on whatever microcontroller you end up using for the fuel rack and boost adjustment thingy so you can store separate profiles for eco and performance mode. Would help keep the car far more drivable than trying to blend the two based on throttle input or RPM especially without a dyno that would let you keep the powerband nice and smooth.
I am a nerd for efficiency and power. You could do a couple IF statements based on throttle input and can have the best of both worlds 😊
That's the idea!
Due the fuel efficiency. See how much you can beat a 92 metro XFI.
Jimbo, Memorial Day weekend, and tall cup of Joe.
Let the Sunday, commence.
The most important part of engineering, nap taking. Following in a close second is math.
LOL, so true!
You can't invent and design great things when you are tired.
Excellent! Keep it up! Nothing like more data! The goals are performance on acceleration, top speed, and NO rolling coal. We're getting there.
👍 for chosing not to fix hardware problems in software 😂
I am very curious how far you can go with the fuel efficiency
I still love the way this engine pulses as it runs. LOL IN some of the shots, it looks like a heart pumping. :)
Wooo! Happy memorial day! Beautiful build and thanks for bringing it to us, i look forward to watching the video with my momster, a joint, and w sandwich
If you can beat wolksvagen xl1 1liter / 100 km that is miracle might need paddeling like bicycle it is impossible 😂
Jimbo I think you can have the best of both worlds, push the limits of fuel efficiency and performance. Basically create two tunes and flip between them with a sport mode button.
i mean, when you have all of the sensors figured out it probably would be possible to have some software presets (like eco - normal - ""sport"")
I like how you keep the vids short and get us just the right amount of info ,and i know how much time you are actually spending you are dedicated my friend .thanks again and have a good memorial day!
Make sure to keep camera rolling when the white van starts following your test drives.... Big brother..... Too Orwellion?
lol... Will do!
It isn't Orwellian for the computer to take over if you, the car's owner are the one who is writing and controlling the code determining when the computer takes over...
I'm always interested in fuel economy in case one finds themself in a full on Mad Max scenario! Sorry to hear about the storm Jimbo.
The beta testing for BoostGPT 1.0 continues!
Or, maybe we should call it RoboBoost instead?
hmmm.... Robo-something. We will have to come up with a bizarre name for the gadget.
Should locate a CAV Boost control unit from a 6cyl Minimec injector pump as fitted to Ford and Sabre marine engines. No wiring at all. just one solid or flexible boost line from the inlet manifold. Can adjust no boost fuel and boost fuel and boost pressure needed to operate unit. Its all adjusted thru one sidecover. When boost reaches your pre-determined amount a plunger will raise up allowing the Kubotas rack/control rod to go into maximum fuel.
We really cant use BIG engine parts on our tiny diesel engine, that why we are building miniature versions of the components. The micro computer we are using will handle everything with ease.
My subaru has a setting for performance and fuel efficiency i can switch between. I think the whole purpose of the car is to push the limits. I see no reason why human error should get in the way of good test results.
I heard about the Tornado's in the mid west this past week, hopefully they didn't come close to you!
there's no limit switch on the stepper motor so if you move the idle air control stepper and power cycle it won't know that it's not at 0. You should do what printers do and on startup, run the gizmo all the way out to its max or min travel until it hits the end stop and then just jog it over to the correct position from there.
That's exactly what my software does. On power up, it retracts the motor until it stalls and that sets the Zero position. From that point it I count the steps the motor moves. keeping track of the motor steps is how I know where the motor is at all times. When I changed the code, it upset the ratio between the knob and the stepper motor and now I'm sending the motor more steps than it can actually move. this pushes the motor beyond its calibrated range.
I have had three IAC's exceed travel on my GTPs. Can't say if it was a difference in manufacturing or if I used the wrong IACs. The lead screw can pop out just enough not to retract. They still function after finger pressing the screw back in.
@@robotcantina8957Ohhh gotcha. Thanks for the reply. Loving the series and looking forward to seeing more from the Renault v twin.
Yes to the fuel economy software! Personally it be hard to rest knowing better numbers were possible but i didn't do it
Seeing all the storm-felled wood makes me think of a future project; fuelling a car with woodgas, sure it's been done many times, but everyone's take on it is often very different... :D
Would like to see a max fuel economy run with modified software setttings.
Very exciting project. I'd like you to try for maximum fuel economy too
When are you going to build one with a 1000cc turbo Hayabausa❤Rice Rocket
A sport bile engine car is something I want to build, however this channel doesn't generate a lot of revenue and at this point it would be too expensive for another project.
Go for all three: economy, ultimate top speed AND power for passing.
That's the plan!
dont invent a super gas mileage car." They" will disappear you.☠
Nah. That's only if he makes one that can run on water
@11:42 A cartoon? GREAT!!! I was born in 19 and 50. Back then Parents were more about discipline than they were about instruction. I got most of my practical life instruction ... from cartoons. Since I mostly watched Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner, I think you know what I learned. Well, I am now 73 and I made it this far. I guess the cartoons worked!
Don't buy ACME products or get on the wrong side of talking rabbits. Seems like good life advice to me.
@@nerd1000ify Don't forget ... gravity doesn't work until you look down.
Aspects such as fuel efficiency are important. I also like the thought of something to clean the air, & I want to share the concept I have been curious about real quick. Running the exhaust gasses through water to remove deposits. I know it contaminates the water but it can run through several containers in series & any that lose all their water can have the Resin? physically taken out via a quick canister exchange. Any way, something I might work on in the future. "The person who sees the work is the one best suited to do the work"- The Ringing Cedars of Russia
I enjoy seeing the creativity that goes into these custom projects here, so thank you for following your thought & sharing!
14:50 - add a couple switches to pick mode, fuel efficiency, city mode, maximum power, weird mode, etc.
Gotta love a propf of concept. Sorry you gotta rip the front end of the Insight apart, Jimbo.
That storm looked like it caused a lot of havoc! Glad you guys are fine and your home is fine. Still absolutely loving this series. I’d love to have the extra money to be able to send you a forged crank for that kubota diesel but I’m only a custodian that gets VA pay with a chunky house payment. If I won the lotto I’d for sure send you anything I can to keep this content going. Love your work you are a man of brilliance with this project.
Thanks!
Kinda sad to see that great big oak toppled.
Yeah it was a wicked storm. Lots of trees down all over.
Yes ...... push the limits. No donuts . That ended badly. G
Just need Derrick from ViceGrip Garage to road test it👏😀
Yep, keep pushing the limits. You're doing great
Thanks for the videos. 👍 i missed you last week 😢.
All these knobs and gauges! What's next? Ejecto seato?!
Jimbo should do a road trip with the insight. That would be a cool video.
Once we get it sorted out that's the plan.
Power tour!
Awesome work, Jimbo! The IAC has a total throw of about 3/8”. Converted to metric, that’s 9.5mm. Divided by 256 steps, end to end, is roughly 0.04mm per step. This number might help you in calibrating the software side of things. I think it’s worth pursuing the fuel economy side of things, because it’ll demonstrate that there’s no such thing as the mythical “100 mpg carburetor”. You’ve got the lightest and most aerodynamic car commonly available, with a really efficient small diesel. This car probably has a chance of being one of the most fuel efficient ICE cars to ever exist, at least at steady-state highway speed. How about some sort of accurate, inline, fuel flow meter, that the Arduino could read in real time? Real time MPG readings. 👍
A long time ago when I did a bunch of tech stuff on busses we used in line flow meters. In order to measure the flow properly you need to use a positive displacement flow meter and they tend to be very expensive.
You're about halfway to a VP44 style pump
As far as adventures go, just be glad you're still in Kansas.
And your little gnomes too.
Why do I feel like that static at the end was hiding something?
Gale banks approves.
I do wonder if your experiments would have taken a different path if you lived in a hilly area ? From a personal point of view anything made more complicated is introducing more points of failures unless you are not travelling to far from home . The big test is going to be a long road trip with city, countryside (Inc hills ) and a bit of freeway mixed in . This is not personal criticism as ever thing you do is interesting but I am curious as to what the purpose is leading to
No hills in Kansas, however if there were hills the performance would be seriously effected. We do have wind and that makes a difference. I have to pick a calm day to do a lot of my testing.
First ... This stuff is EXCELLENT, and exactly what I hoped for when you proposed this project. I own a VERY old school M35a2 Deuce and a Half with a mechanical diesel pump. I think what you are doing is directly applicable to my truck ... which is VERY smoky on acceleration, is kind of limited on power (i.e., speed) and always delivers between 13 and 15 mpg. I'd like the smoke to go down, pick up a little speed and maybe improve economy a touch. Cost for parts seems more than reasonable and I have PLENTY of room ... maybe.
0-60mph: Eventually....😉
This is so awesome Jimbo!! 🥰🤩🙂👍 Haven't seen the Gnomes lately.
Did they sue you for being politically incorrect? I heard they demanded higher wages and you put their pay up on a shelf where they couldn't reach it. Hey, they asked for it! 🤣😂
At first I thought you hadn't compensated for making the block off plate thinner, but that would have moved the rod in by an extra 1.0 mm... but then you explained that you forgot about the block off plate when you calibrated it... so it is 1.0 mm further out than you expected!
you should add modes, eco, sports, etc. lol
It was worth the wait! Thanks for not rushing out a video. Not sure what I learned but I KNOW I learned something. 😂 I always feel smarter after watching a Robot Cantina video. Phil
2 maps
Toggle switch to digital input.
Power / Eco
Max power should be first goal!!!
Let's go more electronical. You could try using use a MAF sensor to calculate Grev and build an airflow table. With that you can use some coding to adjust boost up and down to flatten out Grev across the rev range. The result should be a more predictable and linear increase in power with an increase in RPM. It won't be perfect but it will be smoother. Hypothetically if you establish a maximum safe flow per revolution you should be able to target that and keep a relatively flat torque curve. Obviously injection timing is going to affect this and there's probably not a whole lot you can do about that within reason. I think it would be interesting to see how close you could get on a dyno by only adjusting the boost.
I would love to see what it can do for fuel economy. If it's something you enable when you want to, I don't see that as Orwellian at all. Besides, there's a big difference between interfering with acceleration as many current units do, versus adjusting fuel and air ratios to get optimal power production for your speed and load like any ECU would do. Whether max speed/acceleration or max efficiency is your goal is your choice, and with your electronic controls, you can swap between the two whenever you want.
Would be interesting to see a calculated ratio for what provides the best fuel economy per estimated HP. There's obviously an optimal ratio for economy, and an optimal ratio for fuel economy, but what is the optimal ratio for both?
I'm enjoying this video series. I was wondering if eventually you will wax the exterior of the car. My friend works at an rv dealership and he told me several times that certain rvs get better fuel economy after being waxed. I wonder to if you make a rear hatch from Styrofoam, it you can create a supercharged Kubota LP superleggera. Great series
Rapid prototyping in slow mo! LoL More Orwellian control please! What do I know, I'm a analog guy in the digital world?
Having selectable buttons like oems would be cool. Eco, normal and "sport" lol. Sport mode gives max power that opens an exhaust cutout 😉
Just stick with MORE POWER! 🤣
I don't think you should focus on improving fuel economy. It already gets incredible mpg so any improvement would just push it past the point of diminishing returns.
I would actually love to see this car tuned for fuel economy. It would be really interesting to be able to switch the car from a tune made for max power and a tune made for max fuel economy/city driveability. Loving the homebrew electrical engine control. Feels like there are so many interesting possibilities. And in such an interesting car to boot. Keep up the good work.
Absolutely you should push the limits of fuel efficiency! And while you're writing that code, don't forget to include the part that detects if the car is having an emissions check and cleans up the exhaust as much as possible. 😁
Optimising fuel consumption?
Of course - I want to see the whole envelope explored and using an arduino is entirely justified.
Your videos rock! Thank you sir
Nice work on editing the videos!
I would like to see software to just barely eliminate smoke, and as a byproduct it might also be very efficient.
You could track the gas peddle position. In the 1st 1/2 the range or so, you can make it do economy. If you push past some limit it can go for power. You can then add an extra return spring so that the gas peddle gets harder to push when you pass the boundary. This way, everyone is happy.
Imo fuel efficiency should be integrated but I don't really see the point in maximizing it. If daily driver is the goal you want a good balance between power and efficiency
of course we want to see fuel economy maximization tests, I personally can not see any other reason for putting a completely undesized engine into a car if not to go for max fuel efficiency . But I think you just like to challenge yourself to the build process.
Im usually here sooner, but I had to bust up some rock this morning. Wouldn't miss this for anything though.
Might as well push for the fuel efficiency too, but don't make it so permanent a change -- I'm not a fan of big brother either.