This is some splendid content and exactly what Carcassonne scene needs in order for its players to have the best possible tools available to develop. I'm surprised this has not come out earlier. Great job!
Regarding grouping, I group not only by function but also by likeness. For example, I don't count 28 RRxx (which Alexey called "curve-like tiles"). If I need to count that I do 20 curves(with or without something else) + 8 crossroads. Why? Curves are easy to spot by themselves. If I see a curve I count it without paying attention to what else is in the tile. Crossroads are also easy to count by themselves, you just see three roads joining at a common point. There same with RFRx: that's 12 straight lines (with our without cap) and 4 crossroads. Also, there's another way of grouping that's very good for Endgame counting that I don't want to reveal because I didn't came up with it and I don't want ti reveal someone else's secret... but I'll say it's very few groups and that are very easy to spot.
This is by far the best video on tile-counting on the internet! Great job! One remark: The example on 24:57 isn't the best one in my opinion, because you are explaining to beginners why to rough count doritos in order to finish a rhombus shape with 2 more doritos. But a lot of beginners and intermediate players don't know it is best to finish this kind of city with 2 doritos. I've seen a lot of beginners finishing this city with citycaps... Thanks for featuring our game as an example :D
Thank you! I intended to animate the two remaining doritos but only after uploading the video did I realize that I had forgotten to do so. But you are right, I should have explained that cities started with doritos are best finished with more doritos. Well, in case somebody [relatively] new to Carcassonne is reading this comment, now you know!
Thank you for the tips! As a beginner I only counted monasteries because they are the most legible. Now that I know the way to group tiles, I'm gonna try counting big cities (8) and crossroads (8) too. P.S. excellent sound effects, I have these sounds in my head when counting tiles ever since
My previous experience with endgame tile counting: I start counting straight roads and curves (because they are often necessary for a field connection), and then I run out of time :( That's why your video is extremely useful, for me the most important parts probably are grouping and the practice of tile counting.
Thank you for making this video. Exactly what I needed. Congratulations on the production value, good graphics. Tracking still seems difficult, but I guess practice makes perfect.
Hi Alexey, thanks for this video, I was looking forward a lot for this kind of new theoretical content. These are my two cents for the topic. Besides the regular grouping you showed in the video, sometimes I use some other grouping schemes, such us: 20 x curves (28 if you count crossroads, as you mentioned) 16 x straight roads 13 x road ends 27 x double grass (tiles with two adjacent field sides) 11 x triple grass (tiles with three field sides) 30 x road with grass base (road side adjacent to field side) [believe me, this has been useful sometimes] And very rarely 44 x tiles with city part (including the starting one) 45 x tiles with a road part (including the starting one) Hope you find this helpful :)
Super helpful, thank you! Even the 44 and 45 can be useful, for example, for estimating the probability with which your opponent will take advantage of an empty city cap.
Yeah, I believe its really easy to count the tiles. The number of tiles with roads and without are two important numbers to remember (only one of them needs to be counted of course).
Great content Alexey! There are really not much video about tile counting! I have a question though. At 19:35 you said you move your eyes in columns while counting, but how can you count the big cities so quickly at 18:41? I mean, most triple cities are located in a horizontal line near the top of the map. How should the eyes move in searching for a specific tile?
Thanks! I should have clarified: I only start moving my eyes vertically if I can't spot said tile quickly. At 18:41, it was quite easy to spot the big cities, because they stand out (big cities literally look big), and because they are clustered: there is a cluster of 5 in the top-left part of the board, and then the other 3 are easy to notice. At 19:35, on the other hand, I am scanning the board for specifically the splitter tile to double-check if I hadn't missed it somewhere. Then I make sure to check all the squares on the board, hence the vertical eye movements.
If you go to the link in the video description, you'll see the github page for the bga-carcassonne-reviewer. Create a new bookmark in your Chrome or Firefox browser to the long "address" mentioned on that page, and then it should work. On the github page, there's also a detailed read-me file. Hope this helps!
I have a technical issue, just like calcification - I played a couple of games where people score open-cathedrals. Why is that? Isn't open-cathedrals = 0 points?
Cities with cathedral tiles in it (from the Inns and Cathedrals expansion) score 0 points at the end of the game. Monasteries (from the base game) score even if not completed.
I can't understand why they created the game in a way that who starts, places the last tile. Who starts has already the benefit of starting, which is very helpful because they have a big chance of completing a city in the very first move. So, like that wasnt enough, they also get the last move (which means they place 1 tile more than you).
I actually asked the creator of the game about this. The total number of tiles (including the starting tile) was determined by practical considerations - it had to be a number with a lot of factors like 60 or 72 for feasible printing and packaging. I don't think anybody had an idea back then that the game would be so successful that there would be a competitive scene and a World Championship. But I have to say there is something beautiful in historical flukes like this. The statistical advantage for the starting player in Carcassonne is similar to chess. It just adds a bit more variance into a game that already had some, nothing insurmountable with skillful play.
This is some splendid content and exactly what Carcassonne scene needs in order for its players to have the best possible tools available to develop. I'm surprised this has not come out earlier. Great job!
Thank you!
Regarding grouping, I group not only by function but also by likeness. For example, I don't count 28 RRxx (which Alexey called "curve-like tiles"). If I need to count that I do 20 curves(with or without something else) + 8 crossroads. Why? Curves are easy to spot by themselves. If I see a curve I count it without paying attention to what else is in the tile. Crossroads are also easy to count by themselves, you just see three roads joining at a common point. There same with RFRx: that's 12 straight lines (with our without cap) and 4 crossroads.
Also, there's another way of grouping that's very good for Endgame counting that I don't want to reveal because I didn't came up with it and I don't want ti reveal someone else's secret... but I'll say it's very few groups and that are very easy to spot.
This is by far the best video on tile-counting on the internet! Great job!
One remark: The example on 24:57 isn't the best one in my opinion, because you are explaining to beginners why to rough count doritos in order to finish a rhombus shape with 2 more doritos. But a lot of beginners and intermediate players don't know it is best to finish this kind of city with 2 doritos. I've seen a lot of beginners finishing this city with citycaps...
Thanks for featuring our game as an example :D
Thank you! I intended to animate the two remaining doritos but only after uploading the video did I realize that I had forgotten to do so. But you are right, I should have explained that cities started with doritos are best finished with more doritos. Well, in case somebody [relatively] new to Carcassonne is reading this comment, now you know!
Thank you for the tips! As a beginner I only counted monasteries because they are the most legible. Now that I know the way to group tiles, I'm gonna try counting big cities (8) and crossroads (8) too.
P.S. excellent sound effects, I have these sounds in my head when counting tiles ever since
My previous experience with endgame tile counting: I start counting straight roads and curves (because they are often necessary for a field connection), and then I run out of time :(
That's why your video is extremely useful, for me the most important parts probably are grouping and the practice of tile counting.
Wow! Amazing content, Alexey! Congratulations and thanks for doing this work for our Carcassonne scene!
Thank you!
Thank you for making this video. Exactly what I needed.
Congratulations on the production value, good graphics.
Tracking still seems difficult, but I guess practice makes perfect.
Hi Alexey, thanks for this video, I was looking forward a lot for this kind of new theoretical content.
These are my two cents for the topic.
Besides the regular grouping you showed in the video, sometimes I use some other grouping schemes, such us:
20 x curves (28 if you count crossroads, as you mentioned)
16 x straight roads
13 x road ends
27 x double grass (tiles with two adjacent field sides)
11 x triple grass (tiles with three field sides)
30 x road with grass base (road side adjacent to field side) [believe me, this has been useful sometimes]
And very rarely
44 x tiles with city part (including the starting one)
45 x tiles with a road part (including the starting one)
Hope you find this helpful :)
Super helpful, thank you! Even the 44 and 45 can be useful, for example, for estimating the probability with which your opponent will take advantage of an empty city cap.
Also no one noticed the pun about benefits of a tile counter being COUNTER-intuitive! :D Was it intentional?
thanks for this!
Great work. Thank you so much!
Thanks for watching :)
Yeah, I believe its really easy to count the tiles. The number of tiles with roads and without are two important numbers to remember (only one of them needs to be counted of course).
Great content Alexey! There are really not much video about tile counting! I have a question though. At 19:35 you said you move your eyes in columns while counting, but how can you count the big cities so quickly at 18:41? I mean, most triple cities are located in a horizontal line near the top of the map. How should the eyes move in searching for a specific tile?
Thanks! I should have clarified: I only start moving my eyes vertically if I can't spot said tile quickly. At 18:41, it was quite easy to spot the big cities, because they stand out (big cities literally look big), and because they are clustered: there is a cluster of 5 in the top-left part of the board, and then the other 3 are easy to notice. At 19:35, on the other hand, I am scanning the board for specifically the splitter tile to double-check if I hadn't missed it somewhere. Then I make sure to check all the squares on the board, hence the vertical eye movements.
I played exactly 1 game with a tile counter... after 10 played tiles I had already forgotten to count 3 and never used a counter again 😅
Oh yes, I forgot to mention that the first ~20 games with a tile counter can be like this (at least they were for me😂).
Great information!!!. I have some issues to use the bga-carcassonne-reviewer. Can you explain how to use it?
If you go to the link in the video description, you'll see the github page for the bga-carcassonne-reviewer. Create a new bookmark in your Chrome or Firefox browser to the long "address" mentioned on that page, and then it should work. On the github page, there's also a detailed read-me file. Hope this helps!
I have a technical issue, just like calcification - I played a couple of games where people score open-cathedrals. Why is that? Isn't open-cathedrals = 0 points?
Cities with cathedral tiles in it (from the Inns and Cathedrals expansion) score 0 points at the end of the game. Monasteries (from the base game) score even if not completed.
I can't understand why they created the game in a way that who starts, places the last tile. Who starts has already the benefit of starting, which is very helpful because they have a big chance of completing a city in the very first move. So, like that wasnt enough, they also get the last move (which means they place 1 tile more than you).
I actually asked the creator of the game about this. The total number of tiles (including the starting tile) was determined by practical considerations - it had to be a number with a lot of factors like 60 or 72 for feasible printing and packaging. I don't think anybody had an idea back then that the game would be so successful that there would be a competitive scene and a World Championship. But I have to say there is something beautiful in historical flukes like this. The statistical advantage for the starting player in Carcassonne is similar to chess. It just adds a bit more variance into a game that already had some, nothing insurmountable with skillful play.
'Counterintuitive' i see what you did therr