Really, and what price the UK's voice among 28 voices - what weight do you think that carries Ever since Thatcher claimed back our budget rebate the rest of the EU have side-lined the UK. Heseltine as an elite wants the status quo to continue but he's now yesterday's man and can't get used to being sent to pasture.
this man sounds more like an idiot.. he was 7 in 1940? most people don't remember anything from that age, let alone with the lack of trustworthy information available at the time and the complexity of WWII. the Americans barely helped out in comparison to many other nations... I'd think if he was truly there and of solid mind, he'd applaud the Canadians and Russians more. I don't know, I wasn't there but history tells a much different story it appears than this respectable old man.
@@erikstigter7897 I don't know about you, but I remember plenty from when I was 7. Plus the general situation at the time was not that hard to grasp. "Bad guys are coming to take away everything you love, and no-one wants to help". I would also add that children don't need to understand the wider complexities of the situation. Everyone at the time would've been terrified & rather sombre, especially after the experience of the last war. Kids pick up on that kind of atmosphere, especially with all the changes they would notice (and the fact his father was a soldier). You appear to make a contradictory statement, saying that he couldn't possibly remember the complexities of the situation, and then criticising him for not remembering the complexities of the situation. Also I'm fairly sure America was more important to Britain than Russia (although I don't know much about WW2 tbf, it's not a topic that interests me outside of the political implications).
In today's globalized world no individual european country can be truly sovereign anymore on its own. We are surrounded by superpowers and individuals who don't have Europe's best interest at heart, but seek only their own enrichment. Only Europe as a whole can achieve sovereignity in the world so that her citizens can be free and sovereign in Europe. Unite the nations!
@@erikstigter7897 acknowledging reality isn't fear mongering. If you choose to be afraid of reality that's a mental deficiency on your part. We have a term for such deficiencies: phobias.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 Yes, of course... someone with your chosen screen name would say that. Nothing to worry comrads, we're only being realistic. 'Only Europe as a whole can achieve sovereignty in the world so that her citizens can be free and sovereign'.. Sure, this is just realism. How about this realism for you; the EU doesn't have the interest of the average European at heart either. They have been blatantly bought by interest groups that mostly have their interests outside of Europe, they go against the will of the people, and they are unelected nothings that the people they are supposedly representing don't know or don't like/dislike. The countries that do (partially) keep their sovereignty are actually the ones that seem to be doing the best in comparison. But please do go on and lecture me about my mental deficiency. Also, the fact someone calls out fearmongering does not mean he's afraid.. that's a fallacy but you probably knew that while making the statement. Piss off.
@@erikstigter7897 LOL. Typical racist brexiteer. I'm not Chinese, and even if I was that doesn't mean I'm a communist. Enjoy your rotting fish as you cower in a corner at project fear (aka project reality).
@@Red1Green2Blue3 Right, me acknowledging you chose quite a specific screen name isn't me calling you Chinese.. I never implied that and neither was I expecting it. I did imply you have communist tendencies, which you seem to have still. I'm not from England you idiot. It's all name calling and logical fallacies, that's all you got. Pathetic. You lack any class or dignity, who the fuck are you to accuse me of being a racist. Also calling me out on being fearful whilst the OP said as much as 'look out for the mean bad world out there, we must unite to combat our foes'.. So go fuck yourself.
This represents a powerful, well informed speech. Heseltine and his experienced generation of retired politicians are more than aware of the reality of leaving this union and the disastrous consequences that will follow. All the depressing rebuttal is simply identity politics, us versus them, attacking the man's age and character. Political correctness has represented a dam of political repression that we are seeing overtopped and people aren't thinking anymore. I see millions of uninformed voters preaching about this myth of regaining sovereignty whilst ignoring the reality of our economic insignificance without our closest ally not to mention Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar. Will 'England and Wales' have a place on the UN security council? Brexit is pure populism madness. It is a reaction to immigration, a loss of identity and suppression of thought. I will continue to fight this madness until my last breath. I want nothing less than to see the balkanisation of the greatest force for good in the world history destroyed. Believe the experts and battle blooded politicians are all of them, corrupt, Bilderberg pawns if you like but I prefer to judge by the fact living standards have reliably increased and I have freedom of expression. I don't think leavers realise how bad society can become with this kind of protectionist attitude.
He's just a man who's passionately behind his own intellect. His intellect lead to him bringing down Margaret Thatcher. He's just a straight talking man with a lot of sense. No, he's not for the little man but why should he be? He's for the greater good of Britain, whatever it may mean.
James Hooper They don't make utter failures Lords..... and what about your former PM Sir John Major? Is he a failure too in your eyes? Sir Major also spoke in front of the Oxford Union. Major's speech was very rational , well balanced and delivered with real dignity while Lord Heseltine's was more rousing and passionate. .......No doubt YOU get things right all the time and can there for never be considered a failed figure. Boris and Gove (your lot no doubt) got it really right for themselves havnt they! Both had the top job of PM in their site but thier dream of getting in through the creaky rusty back door did not work out. Naked ambition rarely works out unless you are a genius which Boris and Gove aint.
This should. Be on Tv . Everyone doesn’t have a computor A most wonderful Speech Micheal. Well done 👍 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗. At last we get the truth Xxxxxx. Thankyou and Bless you Deexxxx
You do not have to be in such a union to work together.. The union has not brought the peoples of Europe closer together, rather it drove them further apart. Better to dismantle the EU in it's current powergrabbing form and rebuild on the lines of the old EEG foundations.
@@erikstigter7897 One of the factors which made international co-operation so important in the 1950s was to prevent disagreements escalating into open conflict. Twice already in the same century a major war had broken out, killing and wounding millions of people and ruining homes and livelihoods throughout the region. Co-operation between Germany and France, then scarcely conceivable has now become a working reality. Precisely what form of power-grabbing is being referred to is unclear. Specific reference to one example would be helpful, so that this argument may be better understood.
@@ilokivi Really, you believe that threat was there when they formed the EU? The EEG and many international bodies hadn't already grown these lines of co-operation.. the UN, COE, INTERPOL, OSCE, that wasn't enough for you. There hadn't been international friction to any degree to warrant creating the EU out of fear of escalation into possible wars. To make it a bit more specific as you asked, it has been said that at least 80% of our countries new laws are created by the EU and not our own lawmakers. The EU itself consists of unelected politicians, a lot of whom have ties with a lot of big companies.. most of them even worked for these specific companies in the past. Even though it is forbidden to speak to members of the European parliament, lobbyist are allowed to have access to these politicians and it has been calculated that there are more than 30000 lobbyists all together in Brussels. Also the creation of a European army, centralized banking, the currency itself.. it has all had the effect of concentrating power away from sovereign countries towards a certain political elite. I don't think that's good, it's definitely not democratic since the people can't punish these politicians through elections or otherwise.
I can't help but agree with him on this. The EU is the single biggest economic bloc on Earth, and Britain, being a powerful nation amongst European states should want to be at the decision table of that economy. If they left the EU, then they'd have zero say in what happens.
Go and have a look at how the British voting weight has become less and less under EU enlargement. Have a look at how many votes have fine against Britain too in the last 10 years. All these people at the top telling us how well we are doing in Europe, how much we pull it in our direction..are telling a bit of a big fib. The evidence proves we are losing our clout, have been for a while and it's becoming ever more evident that should we remain, it will be reduced ever further. Like Dan Hannan said, you can love football, but that doesn't mean you like what Fifa do. It's been heading in a wrong, corporatist, statist, monopoly way for years. I think many have finally realised that. Apart from Nick Clegg!😂
I don't understand why this is something nation state would put high on it's priority list. It's not like Canada has vote in economic strategy of US. Are you saying that Canada should join US?
+siprus it's a fundamental core to democracy, every bit you surrender weakens your ability of self governance, if you keep on eroding it you are not a nation state, but a bit of land with no governance, no say, no ideals, no future.
Toza I was replaying to Jimminy Lummox. Having say in other countries economic isn't fundamental core to democracy. It really has nothing to do with democracy.
When we had real politicians ones with experience of the world/business/agriculture/the Armed forces not the crap we have now most of whom have no experience whatsoever apart from research posts or Public relations posts or ngo posts. Well said Mr Heseltine. This should have been all over the TV on all the channels before the Brexit Vote.
Heseltine was 7 years old in 1940. AND when he grew up he had to buy his own furniture... (that was before he seized the mace in the House of Commons and swung it around in an egocentric fit of crazed petulance).
He is a charismatic man even at 82. He has had a heart condition for 20 odd years and is still standing. Knocked over a cyclist turning out of his drive in his Jaguar not long ago. Pleaded guilty to careless driving. An excellently fluent accent and a man who has lived a full life. A very interesting man. Totally wrong on this issue!
ignoramous idiot , and yes racist perhaps, did the neo nazi factions in parliament , and their skinhead , supporters , most who thought that peole of colour would be kicked out of this island had to be reminded that 99% of them have been here for a generation or longer..they are BRITS adolf,... heard 1 36 year old brexiteer on the grimbsy dock, reminded us that we fought 2 wars for our ffreedom, what wars did he fight..without Russia we would have been goners. .that is the mind set of all phobics, so let me remind you of what war is, my late mother lost her 2 youngest brothers , 1 killed fighting with the rear guard , trying to buy time for his comrades to reach Dunkirk, the other killed at Normandy, in the 1st WAVE to reach the beaches there.. my father was also wounded in the drive inland, and still had shrapnel that was too dangerous to remove for the rest of his life, now old tarzan , the sound of a bomb falling is just the same whether you are 7 or 107 , it brings death heinrich zeek heil adi
None of us are getting younger and neither are you. Oh Bugger and since when do they make nobodies Lords. Alan Sugar is a Lord too. Self made and he was for remain and he like Heseltine said it costs time and money to create a new workforce from scratch. Why walk away from the table, he said. Well the saboteurs have left and know they have a big mess of uncertainty and more austerity, down turn, slow growth, etc The plus from the AA credit rating has all ready been removed. Once you have a minus attached to the two A's then you are in the red zone. From AAA to AA+ to just an AA now. Farage resigns and gloats and others have to clean up the mess. Oh Bugger .
"Switzerland’s longstanding application to join the EU has not had a significant impact on the country’s politics for more than 20 years, as its accession negotiations have been suspended since 1992 in the wake of a referendum to join the European Economic Area, when the Swiss voted down the idea of closer ties with the EU.Some politicians even argued that the vote was an unnecessary formal procedure that didn’t make much sense as Switzerland is no longer regarded by the EU as an official candidate to join the bloc." www.rt.com/news/346884-switzerland-eu-membership-application-rejected/
Quite right Lord Hesseltine, Europe shall see to it that every aspect of your speech becomes true. Call it self protection. However, discussing opt-outs shall become very difficult in the future.
he has good points, but about his last statement that staying in the EU would give next generations corridors of power, we fear that by then there will be no power for the UK, which would only be buying more than a region within the EU
ahhh...when you don't like somebody's point of view...link it to race and label them a racist...argument over....would not have expected Hesseltine to sink to that level...he should be debating in a school classroom, not here
Had I heard this speech before the vote. I would not have voted to leave. The remain camp in the government was making unbelievable claims of doom that were so absurd that I voted to leave.
Below is the comment I put on Flip Chart Rick's blog page dated 10/08/2016 that failed to appear. I have a different take on Brexit. Whilst David Cameron had no choice about holding a referendum for reasons going back about ten years we should never have another. We want to be ruled by the best argument and not the majority. J S Mill described majority rule as the worst kind of tyranny and "vulgar democracy". Imagine if the result had been to remain because London, Scotland and NI had voted unanimously for remain The for and against arguments were far removed from the quality of the debate and scrutiny enjoyed in parliament. By luck and not good problem solving we arrived at Brexit. And when Mrs. May says Brexit is Brexit she is only stating that its a done deal. Lets go forward please and stop looking backwards with regret. History is bunk. You can do something today and tomorrow but you cannot do something yesterday The EEC morphed into the EC and then the EU and thanks to the introduction of the Euro must now morph into a banking, fiscal and political union with considerable future loss of member state sovereignty that we can do without. Without some thinking it will go forward with Nexit and Frexit. The EU is a club with member benefits that are unequal. Great for the 2004 accession countries. Great for those who have a net financial gain rather than a net cost. Bad for free trade and globalisation. EU protectionism looks after themselves but is generally negative for the rest of the world. Their biggest spend prior to the PIIGS was the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) which massively subsidised their farmers to avoid importing agricultural produce from the rest of the world. The EU citizen paid tax to fund the CAP and over the market rate for fruit and veg which could have been bought from the third world for example. A consequence of not trading with Africa is that Africa is poorer and its citizens have little choice but to travel to Libya and face crossing the Med. Trump will put the UK at the front of the queue in an Adam Smith free trade world. TIPPS is destined to fail. China is totally frustrated with negotiating with the EU and a number of countries have come forward and requested that they wish to trade with the UK including Assie, NZ and Brazil. We also have good relations with the Commonwealth and the other European trading block that we had to leave when we joined the EEC. The pre 2004 EU had an average age approaching 60, a declining workforce and even when enlarged it only holds 17% of world trade and falling. The EU cannot say goodbye to UK trade which is massively to their advantage.
This man has seen a lot. He knows his shit Also, think of the sunk cost into the EU. The relationships individual ministers have built Etc. Its a hell of a lot to abandon
Amazing Speech. At 1:30 he uses the argument that 47% of our exports go to the Eu. He repeats this at 5:10 as an explanation of why we are economically dependent on the EU. He fails to mention that the balance of trade is the other way; we import more than we export to them. But the argument falls down for a more basic reason: because it is circular. 47% of our exports go to the EU because we are members of the EU. It’s a bit like saying “our family is dependent on Woolworths because 90% of our groceries come from there” as if ceasing to shop at a particular shop will cause us to starve. Time, and the deal that was finally made, have shown that we did not lose 47% of our exports on leaving the EU. That was never going to happen, because the EU needs to export to us. He then goes on to cite Norway and Sweden (2:30) as being subject to freedom of movement rules they have no control over because they need to trade. But time has again shown him to be wrong, Britain continues to trade with the EU and is not subject to their freedom of movement rules. The same logical failure applies at 2:30 where he argues that leaving the EU is an abdication of sovereignty because we will be subject to their rules without having a say in them. Once again, time has shown him to be wrong. Britain is a third party not subject to internal EU rules. Not subject to FoM, not subject to the ECJ, not subject to EU directives. At 6:30, he inadvertently gives away the driving force behind remainer thinking: in effect he says, “we are not as good as them”. Shame on you Lord Heseltine. You might have been shot in 1940 for putting such a sentiment about. At 7:10 he uses the tired old argument that Britain has chosen to not to be part of Schengen and the Euro. This argument again fails, because the intention of the EU has been, right from the start that it is progressive ("ever closer union"). Once power has transferred to the EU, the intention is that it should never be given back. Thus, he should have said “we are not yet in those systems.” So you might say this is not true because Britain has exited the EU. But that process proves the point. It became abundantly clear during the exit process that article 50 was deliberately written in order not to be used and/or to make leaving as difficult as possible. Its authors admit as much. At 8:30 he says “This is built on democracy by individual nation states”. This is not what democracy means. Democracy comes from the people not from their governments. Every stage of delegation weakens the democratic principle. He then talks of “Sharing their sovereignty”. Sovereignty is, by definition inalienable and indivisible. It is amazing that an educated man such as he, and apparently his audience, do not appear to understand this. At 9:10 he says “The advanced world has had a pretty rough time over the best part of decade”. Utter nonsense, progress continues to made at an absolutely astounding rate and the World gets better and better, not just for the advanced nations but for Third World countries too. He then goes on to talk about how we need immigration because we need immigrants to work. This is nothing but a Ponzi scheme. Said immigrants will need more immigrants to look after them when they age. The solution is to develop self-reliance against the weakness and dependence that the EU has engendered not to increase the problem Amazing speech. Rarely has so much nonsense been sold to such educated people so easily.
1) "we import more than we export to them" - no longer at 0%, of course we can "shop" elsewhere, but we could've done that before too. 2) Yes, we continue to trade with them, but not at 0%, and with oodles more paperwork/labour involved. 3) Of course we needn't follow EVERY rule, but we must comply with anything relevant to trading with them. 4) Driving force behind every Brexitter - "WE are better than everyone else" - only we aren't. 5) Article 50 didn't make leaving difficult. May invoked it with ease, the difficulty was taking a grenade to decades of integration without any real purpose at the end other than... 6) "This is built on democracy by individual nation states, this is not what democracy means". We're really barrel scraping with just a load of babble here. There was no attempt to define the word democracy, he's saying the EU is built-on top of the democracy of it's nation states. They are all in themselves each a democracy. 7) So 7yrs ago you reckon we'd been doing just great, had been for a decade, but still wanted to leave? 8) That may be the longer term solution. In the shorter term, we need people who'll pick fruit and wipe our relatives arses in care homes, because it just isn't what Brits do.
A great speech against a non existent and irrelevant straw man. The poor old fool has learned nothing from 2016 and never will. His thinking is of the 1940s and 70s. Good only for bluster in the Oxford Union.
@@JCHexlad Don't worry Brexit is happening. We are all leaving the EU and it feels wonderful! We are living in a beautiful time! Do you also find that statement interesting?
Disgraceful…..absolutely disgraceful !. Norway and Switzerland have expanding economies which are healthy. The economies within the EU prisoner natiions are unhealthy and contracting, this is a fact. An abdication of sovereignity is to allow unelected faceless and unaccountable foreign beurocrats to determine our laws and rule over us in a scenario of submission by fiat, be decree, in which there is no possibility of appeal or redress. And he says that it is the Brexit scale and what it is all about.....and like sheep...they all clap ! It is incredible. Then he rambles on...47 % of our trade goes there...but he omits to mention the UK buys more from the EU than it sells to it. The painful truth is that the balance of trade with the EU is at a deficit, and not a surplus !...and then he is interrupted...and he pleads...that he has 4 more minutes for the fate of Europe....instead of 4 more minutes for the fate of the great nation that is the United Kingdom. Isn't it shameful ? And again like sheep, they all clap. And excuse me, but by the time you are down there pushing up the daisies and in years to come tomorrow's generations will witness with horror how the EU will dismantle the House of Commons, the Lords, will cut the UK up into regions to be ruled by Brussels, how the armies, navies and airforces of member states will be coerced to subjugate to the ideal of a European defence cluster, how the very essence of nationhood will be dismantled. Why, even the crown on Her Majesty's head will not be safe. How much further can delusion be driven and imposed on others ? Who is in charge he asks. The EU is in charge, sitting on everybodys' head and ruling by decree. That is who is in charge and who effectively and brutally governs. And he has got it back to front again, the old codger.He says the members of the European Parliament tell the Council of Ministers what to do. Deluded. Absolutely It is exactly the other way round. Then before going on to the next point he blunders again saying that the sovereignity is shared by nations within the EU. Wrong. The very notion of sovereignity is an anathema to the EU, as is the concept of nationhood, let alone the idea of patriotism. He then introduces a red herring in regard to immigration by introducing racism. that is irrelevant, and they clap YET AGAIN ! And then...wait for tit....power is the essence of political purpose...but what he omits to mention is that the misuse of power, which is what is being experienced today, to the dismay and frustration of the electorate has become the order of the day. And then he assuages these naïve inexperienced vulnerable young people with closing twaddle. Absolutely disgraceful !....and they...who have little experience of life...of holding down a job...maintaining a family....maintaining a home...and other life experiences that these young undergraduates have not confronted yet in the real world instead of the apparent world that obsesses him...respond...by clapping...but no one challenges...and such...I am sad to comment ….is a vivid illustration of the current dumbed down state of the nation.
Congratulations on a wonderful and inspiring speech, Lord Heseltine
Really, and what price the UK's voice among 28 voices - what weight do you think that carries Ever since Thatcher claimed back our budget rebate the rest of the EU have side-lined the UK. Heseltine as an elite wants the status quo to continue but he's now yesterday's man and can't get used to being sent to pasture.
If I was 7 in 1940 I'd remember it, I'd make sense of it and I'd also have been terrified.
This is one of the rare excellent speeches of the Union.
this man sounds more like an idiot..
he was 7 in 1940?
most people don't remember anything from that age, let alone with the lack of trustworthy information available at the time and the complexity of WWII.
the Americans barely helped out in comparison to many other nations... I'd think if he was truly there and of solid mind, he'd applaud the Canadians and Russians more.
I don't know, I wasn't there but history tells a much different story it appears than this respectable old man.
@@erikstigter7897 I don't know about you, but I remember plenty from when I was 7. Plus the general situation at the time was not that hard to grasp. "Bad guys are coming to take away everything you love, and no-one wants to help". I would also add that children don't need to understand the wider complexities of the situation. Everyone at the time would've been terrified & rather sombre, especially after the experience of the last war. Kids pick up on that kind of atmosphere, especially with all the changes they would notice (and the fact his father was a soldier).
You appear to make a contradictory statement, saying that he couldn't possibly remember the complexities of the situation, and then criticising him for not remembering the complexities of the situation. Also I'm fairly sure America was more important to Britain than Russia (although I don't know much about WW2 tbf, it's not a topic that interests me outside of the political implications).
Still after six years, Lord Heseltine is spot on.
In today's globalized world no individual european country can be truly sovereign anymore on its own. We are surrounded by superpowers and individuals who don't have Europe's best interest at heart, but seek only their own enrichment.
Only Europe as a whole can achieve sovereignity in the world so that her citizens can be free and sovereign in Europe.
Unite the nations!
I thought fearmongering was reserved for the 'radical' right?
@@erikstigter7897 acknowledging reality isn't fear mongering. If you choose to be afraid of reality that's a mental deficiency on your part. We have a term for such deficiencies: phobias.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 Yes, of course... someone with your chosen screen name would say that.
Nothing to worry comrads, we're only being realistic.
'Only Europe as a whole can achieve sovereignty in the world so that her citizens can be free and sovereign'..
Sure, this is just realism.
How about this realism for you; the EU doesn't have the interest of the average European at heart either. They have been blatantly bought by interest groups that mostly have their interests outside of Europe, they go against the will of the people, and they are unelected nothings that the people they are supposedly representing don't know or don't like/dislike.
The countries that do (partially) keep their sovereignty are actually the ones that seem to be doing the best in comparison.
But please do go on and lecture me about my mental deficiency.
Also, the fact someone calls out fearmongering does not mean he's afraid.. that's a fallacy but you probably knew that while making the statement.
Piss off.
@@erikstigter7897 LOL. Typical racist brexiteer. I'm not Chinese, and even if I was that doesn't mean I'm a communist.
Enjoy your rotting fish as you cower in a corner at project fear (aka project reality).
@@Red1Green2Blue3 Right, me acknowledging you chose quite a specific screen name isn't me calling you Chinese.. I never implied that and neither was I expecting it.
I did imply you have communist tendencies, which you seem to have still.
I'm not from England you idiot.
It's all name calling and logical fallacies, that's all you got. Pathetic.
You lack any class or dignity, who the fuck are you to accuse me of being a racist.
Also calling me out on being fearful whilst the OP said as much as 'look out for the mean bad world out there, we must unite to combat our foes'..
So go fuck yourself.
Brilliant man and what an incredible Speech
This represents a powerful, well informed speech. Heseltine and his experienced generation of retired politicians are more than aware of the reality of leaving this union and the disastrous consequences that will follow. All the depressing rebuttal is simply identity politics, us versus them, attacking the man's age and character. Political correctness has represented a dam of political repression that we are seeing overtopped and people aren't thinking anymore. I see millions of uninformed voters preaching about this myth of regaining sovereignty whilst ignoring the reality of our economic insignificance without our closest ally not to mention Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar. Will 'England and Wales' have a place on the UN security council? Brexit is pure populism madness. It is a reaction to immigration, a loss of identity and suppression of thought. I will continue to fight this madness until my last breath. I want nothing less than to see the balkanisation of the greatest force for good in the world history destroyed. Believe the experts and battle blooded politicians are all of them, corrupt, Bilderberg pawns if you like but I prefer to judge by the fact living standards have reliably increased and I have freedom of expression. I don't think leavers realise how bad society can become with this kind of protectionist attitude.
He's just a man who's passionately behind his own intellect. His intellect lead to him bringing down Margaret Thatcher. He's just a straight talking man with a lot of sense. No, he's not for the little man but why should he be? He's for the greater good of Britain, whatever it may mean.
Couldn't agree more. The voice of reason.
He's a man that seems consistently to get it wrong. He is a failed political figure and not a very loyal one.
James Hooper They don't make utter failures Lords..... and what about your former PM Sir John Major? Is he a failure too in your eyes? Sir Major also spoke in front of the Oxford Union. Major's speech was very rational , well balanced and delivered with real dignity while Lord Heseltine's was more rousing and passionate. .......No doubt YOU get things right all the time and can there for never be considered a failed figure. Boris and Gove (your lot no doubt) got it really right for themselves havnt they! Both had the top job of PM in their site but thier dream of getting in through the creaky rusty back door did not work out. Naked ambition rarely works out unless you are a genius which Boris and Gove aint.
@@robertmanfredthurrigl9424 was he not born a lord? Those titles live with your family forever
@@Idk-dd2gn No . He was made a Lord on merit . Similar with formerly known Sir Alan , now simply known as Lord Sugar .
My manz the Lord dropping pure knowledge.
Is best speech and explanation I ever hear. Good example as UK have smart people. Straight to the point, without any dream or lottery games....
This should. Be on Tv . Everyone doesn’t have a computor A most wonderful Speech Micheal. Well done 👍 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗. At last we get the truth Xxxxxx. Thankyou and Bless you Deexxxx
Yes. Lord Heseltine was and is right. I write in May 2023 and what a mess we British are now in.
Brilliant man. For those who want to leave the EU please listen carefully to the last 2 mins. Better together.
I did and candidly
he does not impress me sad to say..
You do not have to be in such a union to work together..
The union has not brought the peoples of Europe closer together, rather it drove them further apart.
Better to dismantle the EU in it's current powergrabbing form and rebuild on the lines of the old EEG foundations.
@@erikstigter7897 One of the factors which made international co-operation so important in the 1950s was to prevent disagreements escalating into open conflict. Twice already in the same century a major war had broken out, killing and wounding millions of people and ruining homes and livelihoods throughout the region. Co-operation between Germany and France, then scarcely conceivable has now become a working reality.
Precisely what form of power-grabbing is being referred to is unclear. Specific reference to one example would be helpful, so that this argument may be better understood.
@@ilokivi Really, you believe that threat was there when they formed the EU?
The EEG and many international bodies hadn't already grown these lines of co-operation.. the UN, COE, INTERPOL, OSCE, that wasn't enough for you.
There hadn't been international friction to any degree to warrant creating the EU out of fear of escalation into possible wars.
To make it a bit more specific as you asked, it has been said that at least 80% of our countries new laws are created by the EU and not our own lawmakers. The EU itself consists of unelected politicians, a lot of whom have ties with a lot of big companies.. most of them even worked for these specific companies in the past.
Even though it is forbidden to speak to members of the European parliament, lobbyist are allowed to have access to these politicians and it has been calculated that there are more than 30000 lobbyists all together in Brussels.
Also the creation of a European army, centralized banking, the currency itself.. it has all had the effect of concentrating power away from sovereign countries towards a certain political elite. I don't think that's good, it's definitely not democratic since the people can't punish these politicians through elections or otherwise.
Listen to Lord Howard's speech that came before
I can't help but agree with him on this. The EU is the single biggest economic bloc on Earth, and Britain, being a powerful nation amongst European states should want to be at the decision table of that economy. If they left the EU, then they'd have zero say in what happens.
Go and have a look at how the British voting weight has become less and less under EU enlargement. Have a look at how many votes have fine against Britain too in the last 10 years.
All these people at the top telling us how well we are doing in Europe, how much we pull it in our direction..are telling a bit of a big fib.
The evidence proves we are losing our clout, have been for a while and it's becoming ever more evident that should we remain, it will be reduced ever further.
Like Dan Hannan said, you can love football, but that doesn't mean you like what Fifa do. It's been heading in a wrong, corporatist, statist, monopoly way for years. I think many have finally realised that. Apart from Nick Clegg!😂
I don't understand why this is something nation state would put high on it's priority list. It's not like Canada has vote in economic strategy of US. Are you saying that Canada should join US?
+siprus it's a fundamental core to democracy, every bit you surrender weakens your ability of self governance, if you keep on eroding it you are not a nation state, but a bit of land with no governance, no say, no ideals, no future.
Toza I was replaying to Jimminy Lummox. Having say in other countries economic isn't fundamental core to democracy. It really has nothing to do with democracy.
L
Long Live the EU!
When we had real politicians ones with experience of the world/business/agriculture/the Armed forces not the crap we have now most of whom have no experience whatsoever apart from research posts or Public relations posts or ngo posts. Well said Mr Heseltine. This should have been all over the TV on all the channels before the Brexit Vote.
Informed by history, eloquent and with respect for the facts. Prescient and incisive.
Excellent man
Wow Michael I want you back there will soon be an empty chair wonderful speech . Please come back we need you to save our country !!!!!!
Heseltine was 7 years old in 1940.
AND when he grew up he had to buy his own furniture... (that was before he seized the mace in the House of Commons and swung it around in an egocentric fit of crazed petulance).
He is a charismatic man even at 82. He has had a heart condition for 20 odd years and is still standing. Knocked over a cyclist turning out of his drive in his Jaguar not long ago. Pleaded guilty to careless driving. An excellently fluent accent and a man who has lived a full life. A very interesting man. Totally wrong on this issue!
ignoramous idiot , and yes racist perhaps, did the neo nazi factions in parliament , and their skinhead , supporters , most who thought that peole of colour would be kicked out of this island had to be reminded that 99% of them have been here for a generation or longer..they are BRITS adolf,...
heard 1 36 year old brexiteer on the grimbsy dock, reminded us that we fought 2 wars for our ffreedom, what wars did he fight..without Russia we would have been goners.
.that is the mind set of all phobics, so let me remind you of what war is, my late mother lost her 2 youngest brothers , 1 killed fighting with the rear guard , trying to buy time for his comrades to reach Dunkirk, the other killed at Normandy, in the 1st WAVE to reach the beaches there..
my father was also wounded in the drive inland, and still had shrapnel that was too dangerous to remove for the rest of his life, now old tarzan , the sound of a bomb falling is just the same whether you are 7 or 107 , it brings death heinrich
zeek heil adi
Senile and highly arrogant but still doesn't realise he is in fact a nobody.
Said the man behind the curtain
Disrespectful remarks from a person with dishonorable character.
None of us are getting younger and neither are you. Oh Bugger and since when do they make nobodies Lords. Alan Sugar is a Lord too. Self made and he was for remain and he like Heseltine said it costs time and money to create a new workforce from scratch. Why walk away from the table, he said. Well the saboteurs have left and know they have a big mess of uncertainty and more austerity, down turn, slow growth, etc The plus from the AA credit rating has all ready been removed. Once you have a minus attached to the two A's then you are in the red zone. From AAA to AA+ to just an AA now. Farage resigns and gloats and others have to clean up the mess. Oh Bugger .
Switzerland has just withdrawn its application to join the EU over immigration policy of the EU
"Switzerland’s longstanding application to join the EU has not had a significant impact on the country’s politics for more than 20 years, as its accession negotiations have been suspended since 1992 in the wake of a referendum to join the European Economic Area, when the Swiss voted down the idea of closer ties with the EU.Some politicians even argued that the vote was an unnecessary formal procedure that didn’t make much sense as Switzerland is no longer regarded by the EU as an official candidate to join the bloc." www.rt.com/news/346884-switzerland-eu-membership-application-rejected/
A Tory making perfect sense, a lovable rarity.
Quite right Lord Hesseltine, Europe shall see to it that every aspect of your speech becomes true. Call it self protection. However, discussing opt-outs shall become very difficult in the future.
Heseltine paid 90 Thousand a year from the EU
Great Lord Heseltein Thank You
Brilliant
he has good points, but about his last statement that staying in the EU would give next generations corridors of power, we fear that by then there will be no power for the UK, which would only be buying more than a region within the EU
What a remarkabel speech. But it didn’t help. Strange, really.
He turned good :-)
Hannan looking embarrassed as MH dismantles Brexit.. :-D
LORD HESELTINE HAD THE BIG PICTURE ! THATCHER DIDN´T ; FOR THE EUROPEAN QUESTION SHE WAS TOO MUCH THE GROCER´S DAUGHTER!
ahhh...when you don't like somebody's point of view...link it to race and label them a racist...argument over....would not have expected Hesseltine to sink to that level...he should be debating in a school classroom, not here
LEADERSHIP IS THIS!!
And how much does he get from the eu in handouts for owning land not farming, just owning. He is only interested in his own benefits. A load of tosh.
Dinosaur.
To suggest trade should come before a peoples self determination is plain wrong
The motion was defeated. What were the voting numbers?
Nearly three-quarters voted against (74% vs 26%)
www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/14549382.Oxford_Union_backs_staying_in_EU_by_large_majority/
Many thanks.
So clearly said….
An Eu dinosaur.
Don't forget it's the biggest market with the richest consumers that's why it's important.
"I have four more minutes for the sake of Europe", they clap for 15 seconds, muwahaha
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE PUT THIS OLD DINOSAUR OUT TO GRAZE.
Very well said Sir,we need your directions & wisdom
Wonderful speech, Lord Heseltine, well done.
And then he strangled his dog.
HAS BEEN HESELTINE
Does he know what day it is?
Had I heard this speech before the vote. I would not have voted to leave. The remain camp in the government was making unbelievable claims of doom that were so absurd that I voted to leave.
BRILLIANT!,, THANK YOU.
One can only hope that one day the voice of reason and pragmatism, exemplified by Lord H. will return to the political discourse.
Below is the comment I put on Flip Chart Rick's blog page dated 10/08/2016 that failed to appear.
I have a different take on Brexit. Whilst David Cameron had no choice about holding a referendum for reasons going back about ten years we should never have another. We want to be ruled by the best argument and not the majority. J S Mill described majority rule as the worst kind of tyranny and "vulgar democracy". Imagine if the result had been to remain because London, Scotland and NI had voted unanimously for remain
The for and against arguments were far removed from the quality of the debate and scrutiny enjoyed in parliament. By luck and not good problem solving we arrived at Brexit. And when Mrs. May says Brexit is Brexit she is only stating that its a done deal. Lets go forward please and stop looking backwards with regret. History is bunk. You can do something today and tomorrow but you cannot do something yesterday
The EEC morphed into the EC and then the EU and thanks to the introduction of the Euro must now morph into a banking, fiscal and political union with considerable future loss of member state sovereignty that we can do without. Without some thinking it will go forward with Nexit and Frexit.
The EU is a club with member benefits that are unequal. Great for the 2004 accession countries. Great for those who have a net financial gain rather than a net cost. Bad for free trade and globalisation. EU protectionism looks after themselves but is generally negative for the rest of the world. Their biggest spend prior to the PIIGS was the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) which massively subsidised their farmers to avoid importing agricultural produce from the rest of the world. The EU citizen paid tax to fund the CAP and over the market rate for fruit and veg which could have been bought from the third world for example. A consequence of not trading with Africa is that Africa is poorer and its citizens have little choice but to travel to Libya and face crossing the Med.
Trump will put the UK at the front of the queue in an Adam Smith free trade world. TIPPS is destined to fail. China is totally frustrated with negotiating with the EU and a number of countries have come forward and requested that they wish to trade with the UK including Assie, NZ and Brazil. We also have good relations with the Commonwealth and the other European trading block that we had to leave when we joined the EEC. The pre 2004 EU had an average age approaching 60, a declining workforce and even when enlarged it only holds 17% of world trade and falling. The EU cannot say goodbye to UK trade which is massively to their advantage.
The Debate is over, It was a very bad Idea it should apply to Re-join Now, or Call a General election.
he doesnt mention anything in regards to the 92 per cent thats not in the eu ie rest of the world
Who was that chinese boy? he needs the belt.
He should be put in a nursing home and the door should be locked.
Selective memory I think
He is wrong. UK should vote to leave the anti-democratic EU and the ball and chain that is the financial disaster that is the Euro zone
Hahahaha . Look how your bright idea turned out.
This man has seen a lot. He knows his shit
Also, think of the sunk cost into the EU. The relationships individual ministers have built Etc. Its a hell of a lot to abandon
I used to work for this man. He is a bilderberger and believes in a federal Europe.
Once you say bilderberger, you disqualify yourself from reasonable dialogue.
@Paul Gavin Say what you mean man
To quote the great JRM “he is a frightful old humbug”.
Amazing Speech.
At 1:30 he uses the argument that 47% of our exports go to the Eu. He repeats this at 5:10 as an explanation of why we are economically dependent on the EU. He fails to mention that the balance of trade is the other way; we import more than we export to them. But the argument falls down for a more basic reason: because it is circular. 47% of our exports go to the EU because we are members of the EU. It’s a bit like saying “our family is dependent on Woolworths because 90% of our groceries come from there” as if ceasing to shop at a particular shop will cause us to starve.
Time, and the deal that was finally made, have shown that we did not lose 47% of our exports on leaving the EU. That was never going to happen, because the EU needs to export to us.
He then goes on to cite Norway and Sweden (2:30) as being subject to freedom of movement rules they have no control over because they need to trade. But time has again shown him to be wrong, Britain continues to trade with the EU and is not subject to their freedom of movement rules.
The same logical failure applies at 2:30 where he argues that leaving the EU is an abdication of sovereignty because we will be subject to their rules without having a say in them. Once again, time has shown him to be wrong. Britain is a third party not subject to internal EU rules. Not subject to FoM, not subject to the ECJ, not subject to EU directives.
At 6:30, he inadvertently gives away the driving force behind remainer thinking: in effect he says, “we are not as good as them”. Shame on you Lord Heseltine. You might have been shot in 1940 for putting such a sentiment about.
At 7:10 he uses the tired old argument that Britain has chosen to not to be part of Schengen and the Euro. This argument again fails, because the intention of the EU has been, right from the start that it is progressive ("ever closer union"). Once power has transferred to the EU, the intention is that it should never be given back. Thus, he should have said “we are not yet in those systems.” So you might say this is not true because Britain has exited the EU. But that process proves the point. It became abundantly clear during the exit process that article 50 was deliberately written in order not to be used and/or to make leaving as difficult as possible. Its authors admit as much.
At 8:30 he says “This is built on democracy by individual nation states”. This is not what democracy means. Democracy comes from the people not from their governments. Every stage of delegation weakens the democratic principle. He then talks of “Sharing their sovereignty”. Sovereignty is, by definition inalienable and indivisible. It is amazing that an educated man such as he, and apparently his audience, do not appear to understand this.
At 9:10 he says “The advanced world has had a pretty rough time over the best part of decade”. Utter nonsense, progress continues to made at an absolutely astounding rate and the World gets better and better, not just for the advanced nations but for Third World countries too.
He then goes on to talk about how we need immigration because we need immigrants to work. This is nothing but a Ponzi scheme. Said immigrants will need more immigrants to look after them when they age. The solution is to develop self-reliance against the weakness and dependence that the EU has engendered not to increase the problem
Amazing speech. Rarely has so much nonsense been sold to such educated people so easily.
1) "we import more than we export to them" - no longer at 0%, of course we can "shop" elsewhere, but we could've done that before too.
2) Yes, we continue to trade with them, but not at 0%, and with oodles more paperwork/labour involved.
3) Of course we needn't follow EVERY rule, but we must comply with anything relevant to trading with them.
4) Driving force behind every Brexitter - "WE are better than everyone else" - only we aren't.
5) Article 50 didn't make leaving difficult. May invoked it with ease, the difficulty was taking a grenade to decades of integration without any real purpose at the end other than...
6) "This is built on democracy by individual nation states, this is not what democracy means". We're really barrel scraping with just a load of babble here. There was no attempt to define the word democracy, he's saying the EU is built-on top of the democracy of it's nation states. They are all in themselves each a democracy.
7) So 7yrs ago you reckon we'd been doing just great, had been for a decade, but still wanted to leave?
8) That may be the longer term solution. In the shorter term, we need people who'll pick fruit and wipe our relatives arses in care homes, because it just isn't what Brits do.
And yet they did not listeb
Now we have EUSSR Mr Heseltine, don't agree with you.
A great speech against a non existent and irrelevant straw man. The poor old fool has learned nothing from 2016 and never will. His thinking is of the 1940s and 70s. Good only for bluster in the Oxford Union.
Who dug him up?
Here's a hard fact - one day you will be old.
Exactly he's a foolish old man who should not interfere. He should go and have a drink with the other non entity liberal Guy Verhofstadt.
@@daviddavies822 interesting. If it wasn't for old people there would be no brexit.maybe they should also not interfere.
@@JCHexlad Don't worry Brexit is happening. We are all leaving the EU and it feels wonderful! We are living in a beautiful time! Do you also find that statement interesting?
@@daviddavies822 not really
Disgraceful…..absolutely disgraceful !. Norway and Switzerland have expanding economies which are healthy. The economies within the EU prisoner natiions are unhealthy and contracting, this is a fact. An abdication of sovereignity is to allow unelected faceless and unaccountable foreign beurocrats to determine our laws and rule over us in a scenario of submission by fiat, be decree, in which there is no possibility of appeal or redress. And he says that it is the Brexit scale and what it is all about.....and like sheep...they all clap ! It is incredible. Then he rambles on...47 % of our trade goes there...but he omits to mention the UK buys more from the EU than it sells to it. The painful truth is that the balance of trade with the EU is at a deficit, and not a surplus !...and then he is interrupted...and he pleads...that he has 4 more minutes for the fate of Europe....instead of 4 more minutes for the fate of the great nation that is the United Kingdom. Isn't it shameful ? And again like sheep, they all clap. And excuse me, but by the time you are down there pushing up the daisies and in years to come tomorrow's generations will witness with horror how the EU will dismantle the House of Commons, the Lords, will cut the UK up into regions to be ruled by Brussels, how the armies, navies and airforces of member states will be coerced to subjugate to the ideal of a European defence cluster, how the very essence of nationhood will be dismantled. Why, even the crown on Her Majesty's head will not be safe. How much further can delusion be driven and imposed on others ? Who is in charge he asks. The EU is in charge, sitting on everybodys' head and ruling by decree. That is who is in charge and who effectively and brutally governs. And he has got it back to front again, the old codger.He says the members of the European Parliament tell the Council of Ministers what to do. Deluded. Absolutely It is exactly the other way round. Then before going on to the next point he blunders again saying that the sovereignity is shared by nations within the EU. Wrong. The very notion of sovereignity is an anathema to the EU, as is the concept of nationhood, let alone the idea of patriotism. He then introduces a red herring in regard to immigration by introducing racism. that is irrelevant, and they clap YET AGAIN ! And then...wait for tit....power is the essence of political purpose...but what he omits to mention is that the misuse of power, which is what is being experienced today, to the dismay and frustration of the electorate has become the order of the day. And then he assuages these naïve inexperienced vulnerable young people with closing twaddle. Absolutely disgraceful !....and they...who have little experience of life...of holding down a job...maintaining a family....maintaining a home...and other life experiences that these young undergraduates have not confronted yet in the real world instead of the apparent world that obsesses him...respond...by clapping...but no one challenges...and such...I am sad to comment ….is a vivid illustration of the current dumbed down state of the nation.