I thought the same thing and it bothered me. I was pondering it and the Holy Spirit told me “whether or not Joseph Smith commuted adultery or not is non of your concern, that is between him and me, as for you, you are to be concerned with your own standing.” The Holy Spirit is right, as I had been lax in my duty at Church. That set me straight, I am not Joseph Smith’s judge I am a former Baptist minister and we both along with our families joined the Restored Church of Jesus Christ 50 years ago. I am now 82 years old and I know that Joseph Smith is the prophet of the Restoration. I know the Book of Mormon is a true record. Study and pray and you will know it is true also. God bless you brother. I say this with all sincerely in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Thank you for presenting a difficult topic in such a way. Very refreshing. Wish I had been taught these principles in this light before. Much appreciated.
How many people today, if they had lived within a few generations of Abraham would find the idea of the Lord asking him to sacrifice his son repulsive? A man might consider it wise to refrain from being offended in the works of God.
Thank you so much for this enlightening discussion on Joseph Smith's Polygamy! I have grown so tired of people claiming that nothing is being done by the church to foster open discussions about controversial church topics. Nothing could be further from the truth.
So, reading pioneer journals of women in the past, one important concept I found interesting is for example: one woman who’s husband died, left her with 5 children. Women back in the day couldn’t go to school to better themselves and their situations unless they had a mans name. Brigham Young gave his name, not because of a inappropriateness, except so women may IMPROVE their goals to support themselves. They didn’t live together. A lot of it was done to help the women in getting an education. Be careful seeing perspectives. None of us are the judge.
It's sad when the whole life and works of a person are reduced to only the most provocative or controversial part of their lives. Surely no one else would like or think it just to receive the same treatment. If one only looks at the bad in a person, it will lead to a sad life. One would be harsh to not consider the good in a person as well.
Thank you for your research and sensitivity to this gospel topic. You expertly expressed all my own thoughts on polygamy. I do hope that one day, our modern day prophets and apostles will directly address the concerns of members who have left the church over the current temple practices. I hope the women of God's kingdom can receive definitive and lasting omfort and prehaps a retraction or explanation of D&C 132 to sufficiently address all our concerns.
With all due respect, if you're waiting on the Church or even God to change anything so as to answer "all" of your concerns and provide comfort, you will never be satisfied. God's ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. Jesus Himself lost disciples because he taught "hard sayings" (see John 6:60-69). Polygamy, without a doubt, is a "hard saying" but it was nevertheless taught as doctrine, endorsed by the prophets, testified of by men *and women* to have been true and right for it's time, and has never been doctrinally renounced even after being discontinued. Whatever comfort and peace you, I, or any other man or woman is to feel about this topic will be had as we sit with these realities rather than denying them or wishing they would just go away. Whether it's about polygamy or any other tough topic in the Gospel, our relationship with Christ, who we can absolutely trust to be loving and all-knowing, is where we find peace abd comfort now and forever. No other answer can give us that kind of peace.
Most likely it’s a painful topic because it’s quite a taboo subject within the Mormon church. Most faithful believe Brigham Young to have originated the practice.
@@kriszab You do realize that most men have. Actually, modern society has made it common place for both genders to have multiple sex partners. Also, you're getting into the realm of male/female psychology. It's a deep subject. Obviously there is a higher reason for polygamy, we're just don't have all of the answers yet.
I get frustrated when we try to excuse these revelations. When discussing polygamy, we say "this isn't the literal diction of God, be patient with Joseph." But it seems the current doctrines taught about the definition of marriage are perfectly clear.
The polygamy dilemma: One must be sealed to a spouse to enter the celestial kingdom, the church stats put women in the majority of members, how will they enter the celestial kingdom not being sealed to a spouse? Or, sealed priesthood holders who become unworthy to enter the celestial kingdom (also a significant church stat), how will a faithful woman enter the celestial kingdom without a faithful spouse? If you play it by the numbers it will certainly be a dilemma.
There are answers to your question: 1. Polygamy is not currently in effect and hasn't been for over century (and thus a moot point). 2. There are 3 degrees of the celestial kingdom, sealing is only required for the highest degree of it. Unsealed angels exist in the celestial kingdom as well, something that is curiously never acknowledged. 3. Worthy spouses (husband or wife) who are sealed to those ho become unworthy will be allowed to be paired with another worthy spouse in the celestial kingdom, as they have lived up to their blessings and have been faithful, and thus will be allowed to be paired with another who has done likewise. The Gospel is a house of order, and always proves so when actual answers are sought instead of assuming shallow problems have no solutions.
@@TheHighwinder Wrong answer. The answer to the "dilemma" is found in Patriarchal blessings, "true to your covenant" the existing order of marriage in the celestial kingdom is irrelevant to the saints at this time.
@@richarddewitt2072 Actually, "true to your covenant" directly links and enforces the marital order of this life into the next and indirectly has relevance to the importance of remaining worthy. Also often referenced in patriarchal blessings are the similar trials and experiences our own heavenly parents endured in their own mortal existence. Like I said - house of order.
One of the things that I have to constantly remind mainstream Christians is something that they never see coming: All the major players of the Old Testament were polygamists, and in multiple cases, was authorized and even arranged by the Lord: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. To be EXTREMELY clear, I am not promoting polygamy (wanting more than one wife is psychotic in my view), but I sure to LOVE pointing out the elephant in the room (ignorant hypocrisy) in this tired old debate.
"Multiple cases, were authorized and arranged by the Lord". Please, please show me which polygamy relationships in the old testament were AUTHORIZED. You really do love grasping at straws. Joseph Smith was a sick individual that took married women to himself, under the threat of eternal damnation, and banged them while their husbands watched. What a disgusting person.
Was zarahemla in iowa.... comments disabled. That's the most gutless thing you could do. I agree, fullheartedly, that it doesn't matter WHERE the book of Mormon lands actually were, as the Church has stated. But then you go on to use your own arguments, (weak ones at that) to make an argument that the book of Mormon, without any doubt, took place in Mesoamerica. I'm still chuckling. I can't claim to know where Zarahemla is. But I fell very comfortable claiming it NOT to be in Mesoamerica. There is a very simple explanation as to how that theory originated.
Yeah, I think we need to understand plural marriage. Im not convinced monogomy is the end all be all of cohabitation and partnership in love ansd sex. Not saying I love how early church tried to live it, Im dont like how they lived the law, but the doctorine makes sence, especially eternally speaking. I mean you really expect me to believe one spouse is all we will explore in an eternal cosmology.? Thats absurd.
Yes thank you but I believe plural marriage is truly a blessing to family values and takes much stress off the individual woman raising children. When it is performed legaly
Do we practice polygamy? No. Early in Latter-day Saint history, the Lord directed a limited number of Church members to practice plural marriage. However, in the late 1800’s, God directed that the practice should be ended. Since then, the Church has taught that monogamy is the marriage practice that the Lord commands today. Although some groups today still practice polygamy, they are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Let's acknowledge the elephant in the room. God did not create 270+ billion kids(and that is just for this world) with just one wife. Polyamy is an Eternal truth.
In your dreams............. if you truly believe that a formerly embodied-now-human- God, with his own world is going to have LITERAL sex with xxxxx numbers of women (somehow classified as “wives” in this intergalactic make-believe world-to populate/create billions of DISEMBODIED spirits for a new planet, then the TRUE elephant in the room is the breathtaking narcissism the men of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are engaged in and covertly trying to drag the women into without prior consent. Unethical as well as completely ridiculous. But Joseph said it was okay so I guess you can hang your hat on that.
Try speed x1.5
She plays with the notion of consent. Saying that Emma freely consented is dishonest when we know she was told she'd be damned if she didn't.
Could you also not make the same argument for anyone who accepts Christ as their Savior?
I thought the same thing and it bothered me. I was pondering it and the Holy Spirit told me “whether or not Joseph Smith commuted adultery or not is non of your concern, that is between him and me, as for you, you are to be concerned with your own standing.” The Holy Spirit is right, as I had been lax in my duty at Church. That set me straight, I am not Joseph Smith’s judge I am a former Baptist minister and we both along with our families joined the Restored Church of Jesus Christ 50 years ago. I am now 82 years old and I know that Joseph Smith is the prophet of the Restoration. I know the Book of Mormon is a true record. Study and pray and you will know it is true also. God bless you brother. I say this with all sincerely in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
We DONT KNOW that she was told that. Emma did take a place during at least two marriages to Joseph.
Thoughtful discourse
Thank you for presenting a difficult topic in such a way. Very refreshing. Wish I had been taught these principles in this light before. Much appreciated.
How many people today, if they had lived within a few generations of Abraham would find the idea of the Lord asking him to sacrifice his son repulsive? A man might consider it wise to refrain from being offended in the works of God.
M.lo0
Thanks
Nauvoo polygamy is easily the most bizarre thing in all of church history. It’s good to lay it out in the open like this.
Laura and Brian Hales are always a great resource. Thank you for your work!
Thank you so much for this enlightening discussion on Joseph Smith's Polygamy! I have grown so tired of people claiming that nothing is being done by the church to foster open discussions about controversial church topics. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Thank you so very very much. For your talk I am so grateful to you.
So, reading pioneer journals of women in the past, one important concept I found interesting is for example: one woman who’s husband died, left her with 5 children. Women back in the day couldn’t go to school to better themselves and their situations unless they had a mans name. Brigham Young gave his name, not because of a inappropriateness, except so women may IMPROVE their goals to support themselves. They didn’t live together. A lot of it was done to help the women in getting an education.
Be careful seeing perspectives. None of us are the judge.
It's sad when the whole life and works of a person are reduced to only the most provocative or controversial part of their lives. Surely no one else would like or think it just to receive the same treatment. If one only looks at the bad in a person, it will lead to a sad life. One would be harsh to not consider the good in a person as well.
sallred24 Love your comment
Thank you for your research and sensitivity to this gospel topic. You expertly expressed all my own thoughts on polygamy. I do hope that one day, our modern day prophets and apostles will directly address the concerns of members who have left the church over the current temple practices. I hope the women of God's kingdom can receive definitive and lasting omfort and prehaps a retraction or explanation of D&C 132 to sufficiently address all our concerns.
With all due respect, if you're waiting on the Church or even God to change anything so as to answer "all" of your concerns and provide comfort, you will never be satisfied. God's ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. Jesus Himself lost disciples because he taught "hard sayings" (see John 6:60-69). Polygamy, without a doubt, is a "hard saying" but it was nevertheless taught as doctrine, endorsed by the prophets, testified of by men *and women* to have been true and right for it's time, and has never been doctrinally renounced even after being discontinued. Whatever comfort and peace you, I, or any other man or woman is to feel about this topic will be had as we sit with these realities rather than denying them or wishing they would just go away. Whether it's about polygamy or any other tough topic in the Gospel, our relationship with Christ, who we can absolutely trust to be loving and all-knowing, is where we find peace abd comfort now and forever. No other answer can give us that kind of peace.
Why does it have to be a painful topic? The problem is, too many people obsess on the sex part rather than the love and support factor.
What a great comment!
Most likely it’s a painful topic because it’s quite a taboo subject within the Mormon church. Most faithful believe Brigham Young to have originated the practice.
@@Jspackman yes it is a touchy subject because it's not fully understood, and no, Brigham Young did not start the practice.
Would you like to share your wife with 5-20 other men? That shouldn't be a painful topic either.
@@kriszab You do realize that most men have. Actually, modern society has made it common place for both genders to have multiple sex partners. Also, you're getting into the realm of male/female psychology. It's a deep subject. Obviously there is a higher reason for polygamy, we're just don't have all of the answers yet.
I get frustrated when we try to excuse these revelations. When discussing polygamy, we say "this isn't the literal diction of God, be patient with Joseph."
But it seems the current doctrines taught about the definition of marriage are perfectly clear.
Current doctrines true.
The polygamy dilemma: One must be sealed to a spouse to enter the celestial kingdom, the church stats put women in the majority of members, how will they enter the celestial kingdom not being sealed to a spouse? Or, sealed priesthood holders who become unworthy to enter the celestial kingdom (also a significant church stat), how will a faithful woman enter the celestial kingdom without a faithful spouse? If you play it by the numbers it will certainly be a dilemma.
There are answers to your question: 1. Polygamy is not currently in effect and hasn't been for over century (and thus a moot point). 2. There are 3 degrees of the celestial kingdom, sealing is only required for the highest degree of it. Unsealed angels exist in the celestial kingdom as well, something that is curiously never acknowledged. 3. Worthy spouses (husband or wife) who are sealed to those ho become unworthy will be allowed to be paired with another worthy spouse in the celestial kingdom, as they have lived up to their blessings and have been faithful, and thus will be allowed to be paired with another who has done likewise. The Gospel is a house of order, and always proves so when actual answers are sought instead of assuming shallow problems have no solutions.
@@TheHighwinder Wrong answer. The answer to the "dilemma" is found in Patriarchal blessings, "true to your covenant" the existing order of marriage in the celestial kingdom is irrelevant to the saints at this time.
@@richarddewitt2072 Actually, "true to your covenant" directly links and enforces the marital order of this life into the next and indirectly has relevance to the importance of remaining worthy. Also often referenced in patriarchal blessings are the similar trials and experiences our own heavenly parents endured in their own mortal existence. Like I said - house of order.
@@TheHighwinder One last time, (why do I need to go into detail?). Define the word rhetorical, but don't answer the question.
One of the things that I have to constantly remind mainstream Christians is something that they never see coming: All the major players of the Old Testament were polygamists, and in multiple cases, was authorized and even arranged by the Lord: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. To be EXTREMELY clear, I am not promoting polygamy (wanting more than one wife is psychotic in my view), but I sure to LOVE pointing out the elephant in the room (ignorant hypocrisy) in this tired old debate.
"Multiple cases, were authorized and arranged by the Lord". Please, please show me which polygamy relationships in the old testament were AUTHORIZED. You really do love grasping at straws. Joseph Smith was a sick individual that took married women to himself, under the threat of eternal damnation, and banged them while their husbands watched. What a disgusting person.
I never understood how this was painful? What is painful about an Abrahamic Sacrifice that does not pertain to almost the whole of existence?
Because is was (and still is) frequently taught as an eternal principle that is a requirement for exaltation.
Was zarahemla in iowa.... comments disabled. That's the most gutless thing you could do.
I agree, fullheartedly, that it doesn't matter WHERE the book of Mormon lands actually were, as the Church has stated. But then you go on to use your own arguments, (weak ones at that) to make an argument that the book of Mormon, without any doubt, took place in Mesoamerica.
I'm still chuckling.
I can't claim to know where Zarahemla is. But I fell very comfortable claiming it NOT to be in Mesoamerica. There is a very simple explanation as to how that theory originated.
Yeah, I think we need to understand plural marriage. Im not convinced monogomy is the end all be all of cohabitation and partnership in love ansd sex. Not saying I love how early church tried to live it, Im dont like how they lived the law, but the doctorine makes sence, especially eternally speaking. I mean you really expect me to believe one spouse is all we will explore in an eternal cosmology.? Thats absurd.
You bet😂
Yes thank you but I believe plural marriage is truly a blessing to family values and takes much stress off the individual woman raising children. When it is performed legaly
😂😂😂😂😂😂 not only woman raising children but 14 year girls like we’re forced to got married with Joseph Smith
@@taniavidal3371 it's the Way of the Celestial God Head 2 go against is Anti Thetical 2 Jesus Christ
Do we practice polygamy?
No. Early in Latter-day Saint history, the Lord directed a limited number of Church members to practice plural marriage. However, in the late 1800’s, God directed that the practice should be ended. Since then, the Church has taught that monogamy is the marriage practice that the Lord commands today. Although some groups today still practice polygamy, they are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Joseph Smith: the American Muhammad
An indication of your profound ignorance if you think such a comparison is credible.
@@tonyjames1953 ok.......... well, God bless you. 😁
You're on to something. Smith was an adulterer
Let's acknowledge the elephant in the room. God did not create 270+ billion kids(and that is just for this world) with just one wife. Polyamy is an Eternal truth.
In your dreams............. if you truly believe that a formerly embodied-now-human- God, with his own world is going to have LITERAL sex with xxxxx numbers of women (somehow classified as “wives” in this intergalactic make-believe world-to populate/create billions of DISEMBODIED spirits for a new planet, then the TRUE elephant in the room is the breathtaking narcissism the men of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are engaged in and covertly trying to drag the women into without prior consent. Unethical as well as completely ridiculous. But Joseph said it was okay so I guess you can hang your hat on that.