With all of the nay sayers and critics dominating the scene it is refreshing to hear honest and fair reasoning using insitefull commentary, all based on honest and fair analysis concerning Joseph Smiths true motives and character with actual history. Dan delivers what those who are misslead and confused need to hear.
Paul Gregersen what is misleading about no nephite lamanite or jeridite civilizations in America? Or putting a rock in a hat, or wrong translation of Egyptian?
@@shawnbradford2243 how do you know that Maya or Olmec weren't the larger civilizations that nephites and jaredites didn't inhabit? Rock in a hat? You do realize that seer stones are biblical, right? Wrong translation of Egyptian? You do realize that 87% of the scrolls Smith had were burned in the Chicago Fire, right? Do you have an explanation for the plates that Mr. Peterson didn't cover that accounts for all the evidence?
@@shawnbradford2243 did you not listen to the presentation? The NHM alter and Bountiful aren't fact based evidence supporting Nephi/Lehi and their journey? The point of the video was to examine the plausibility of critic's explanations. Do you have a plausible explanation for the book/plates, that accounts for all the evidence, that Mr. Peterson didn't cover? I'll wait.
It is true that truth is beautiful in math. Also music, art, science, and other fields. Truth in religion is the most beautiful and a guiding foundation to find it in all realms
Many folks have made a living writing about the origins of the book of Mormon. I have read nearly every anti-Mormon disertation. Nothing new under the Sun. As a life long member i have been open to honest criticism but I am encouraged by the fact that lies are spread as truth and and body who has done true research would not repeat storys that are so easily found to be false which then by association calls into question everything else they say.
@@Kaputnik11 I don’t have the bandwidth to cover over a hundred years of critiques of the church and Joseph Smith. If you are honestly and sincerely the answers are out there. I’m almost 70 and have spent my entire adult life looking into these criticisms. The one thing I learned was that some people are honest but applying poor or fallacious arguments, others are not sincere and have made dishonest attempts to discredit the church. The first one is a matter of study the second is Satanic in nature for Satan is the father of lies.
Simple, insightful, and true. I gained my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon at age 14 after prayerful asking and reading the entire book. After that, the truth of the restoration followed in both reason and faith.
@@shawnbradford2243 there is actually a really good amount of archeological evidence for that considering how little archeology has been done in the Americas
Colton Kerbs still waiting on that really good archeological evidence you while at the same time saying not much archeology has been done on the continent.
This is making me think. Most conmen usually work on their own. They don't get dozens of people to go along with their cons. Frank Abagnale for example worked alone, he didn't get hundreds to go along with his lies. It doesn't really make sense to con people this way either.
@@lilacpilot3437 you've got a fair point there. I would say though cult leaders usually end up wealthy. They usually have simplistic schemes. The book of Mormon is anything but a simplistic scheme. Jim Jones, David Koresh didn't write a new volume of scripture. L. Ron Hubbard you could argue did. But I feel like that comparison is really lazy. L. Ron Hubbard basically just wrote science fiction stories. He didn't write extremely elaborate scripture that interweaves with existing scriptures and dogmas and ancient cultures, but also adding very profound, inspiring, and revolutionary doctrines. Comparing them to Joseph is like comparing a fake dollar bill printed on a xerox copier to one that was created with multi million dollar equipment that had the capability of putting on watermarks, unique inks and chemicals and a hundred other highly scientific and sophisticated anti counterfeiting features. You could argue Mohammed and the Quran. Well having read some of the Quran, I can tell you it's not resurrected scripture. It doesn't claim to be either. The closest thing it reminds me of is the book of Psalms or proverbs, and the Book of Mormon just isn't that. I don't see Joseph ending up particularly wealthy. He also has a lot of detractors and very close people who turned against him. Yet many of them came back and none of them "exposed his fraudulent methods". Why wouldn't they? David Whitmer for example, is oddly enough one of the strongest testaments of the witnesses even though he thought Joseph was a fallen prophet. I just can't compute in my head a scenario where Joseph is a con man making this stuff up. At 23 years old, and with only 3 months time, no real education, no access to meaningful amounts of information on middle Eastern cultures and ancient Israelite religion. To put it simply, I've never seen anything that comes close to being like Joseph in all of history. I've never seen a con man or a cult leader do anything like this.
Cumulative case for is eventually obvious. Cumulative case against is soon stupid. And that's something that goes for anything true and even that which is closer than the alternatives.
To me the Best Evidence for the Book of Mormon is, Drum Roll THE BOOK OF MORMON, ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST, and or, The History inside itself. Could any man written such A complexity of Words, Titles, Military PLANS, RELIGOUS Doctrines, etc, etc, etc.
To me also it is very perplexing but learning one piece at a time. i also can't disbelieve claims of book of Mormon translation miracle. Book of Mormon is a colossal production. Whole creation will endeavor to prove it fake but never possible to do so.
The plates are a character in the Book of Mormon. JUST like the Angel Moroni. The tangible reality of the plates affirms that the Book of Mormon hIstory is part of OUR REALITY. And over 200 years, the statements of the Book have proven to be about the REAL WORLD, including Arabia, and ancient American volcanic eruptions, and the names of ancient Egyptians, and the beliefs and practices of ancient Israelites, including their literary forms, and the writing of Hebrew in Egyptian characters. The fact that the English text that Joseph read to his scribes was NOT 1829 English, but English of 300 years earlier, shows Joseph did not create the text. I think that God designed the transmission of the Book of Mormon so that it would be full of evidence that would not be understood for a hundred years, so that it would become harder and harder to resist for people who are honest in heart, who are willing to believe in a living Christ. Moroni makes clear that HE and his father's Book will be witnesses at the judgment bar of God to testify against those who reject the Book. The world does not judge the Book. The Book judges mankind.
@FairMormon and +FairMormon .... I am in search of The Truth and I would like to know why so much of the testimonials of the witnesses and Joseph Smith were done in secret or private away from the average human when Jesus' miracles and encounters were in the presence of many witnesses? I honestly just am seeking truth. Thank you in advance for the reply.
It was so that people could many of his miracles were done in the open and many testified of what they saw and heard. But maybe you're referring to the book of Mormon. I believe the reason why the book of Mormon was only seen by few people was that we needed to find out for ourselves that it was true. It was necessary fat people act with faith by believing what they cannot see but is real and true. Because when people believe and the spirit testifies afterwards of what they read they gain strength from God and they are unshakable far more so then if they see miracles for themselves.
There were many people after Joseph trying to steal the “Gold” plates to get money for them. Even Joseph had to wait until the Lord knew Joseph would have no thought as to get gain from the gold pates. He had to protect them with his life until the angel Moroni took them.
God led me on a search for The Truth (nice to see you capitalize both words) many years ago. I can share with you where that journey took me and how that journey did not lead me to Mormonism.
Shawn Bradford man you’re everywhere aren’t you? Almost not a single Church of Jesus a Christ video on RUclips that I don’t see you trying to dissuade people from their faith in Jesus Christ’s restored Gospel. Someday it’d be nice to meet you, take you to church, go to an open house for a new temple (because we’re building so many) and get inside your head a bit. Kicking against the pricks, as they say, has to get boring and old, right? Honestly what is your beef with “Mormonism”? Why are you so fixated on this religion of 15-16 million people worldwide (5-8 million active)? I’m just so curious.
@@michaelhutchings6602His first argument, as an example. To quote him, the Book of Mormon "survives when it really shouldn't." Why shouldn't it? Does it survive, or is it being proverbially Weekend at Bernie's'd? In what way does it surviving indicate that its true? If survivorship does indicate truth, how long does an idea have to survive before that indicates that it's true? Was it less true when it was a new idea, since it hadn't had time to "survive when it really shouldn't"? That's just his first argument. As I recall, it doesn't get any better.
@@michaelhutchings6602 And the fallacies continue. I've listened to the whole thing before. I'm not going through the frustration again to break down what amounts to a series of fallacies. If it helps, look for strawmen, motte and baileys, red herrings, circular reasoning, and the like.
With all of the nay sayers and critics dominating the scene it is refreshing to hear honest and fair reasoning using insitefull commentary, all based on honest and fair analysis concerning Joseph Smiths true motives and character with actual history. Dan delivers what those who are misslead and confused need to hear.
Paul Gregersen what is misleading about no nephite lamanite or jeridite civilizations in America? Or putting a rock in a hat, or wrong translation of Egyptian?
@@shawnbradford2243 how do you know that Maya or Olmec weren't the larger civilizations that nephites and jaredites didn't inhabit? Rock in a hat? You do realize that seer stones are biblical, right? Wrong translation of Egyptian? You do realize that 87% of the scrolls Smith had were burned in the Chicago Fire, right? Do you have an explanation for the plates that Mr. Peterson didn't cover that accounts for all the evidence?
I enjoy his presentations more than anyone else. I like his sense of humor and how he simplifies complex issues into digestible fragments.
Me too!
Hi William. Do you know a Jackie Fife?
@Saint Christopher no
Dan Peterson is a true scholar! By faith or by facts, The Book of Mormon is the word of God.
Holly odii nothing of fact presented just feel good, can you show me evidence of nephite lamanite or jeridite civilizations in America?
@@shawnbradford2243 did you not listen to the presentation? The NHM alter and Bountiful aren't fact based evidence supporting Nephi/Lehi and their journey? The point of the video was to examine the plausibility of critic's explanations. Do you have a plausible explanation for the book/plates, that accounts for all the evidence, that Mr. Peterson didn't cover? I'll wait.
lol
The more I hear alternative explanations about how the Book of Mormon could have come about, the more I'm reminded of flat-earthers.
It is true that truth is beautiful in math. Also music, art, science, and other fields. Truth in religion is the most beautiful and a guiding foundation to find it in all realms
Mar 2022. Thank you. Good to learn.
Another great talk Dan.
Many folks have made a living writing about the origins of the book of Mormon. I have read nearly every anti-Mormon disertation. Nothing new under the Sun. As a life long member i have been open to honest criticism but I am encouraged by the fact that lies are spread as truth and and body who has done true research would not repeat storys that are so easily found to be false which then by association calls into question everything else they say.
What lies are being spread as truth?
@@Kaputnik11 I don’t have the bandwidth to cover over a hundred years of critiques of the church and
Joseph Smith. If you are honestly and sincerely the answers are out there. I’m almost 70 and have spent my entire adult life looking into these criticisms. The one thing I learned was that some people are honest but applying poor or fallacious arguments, others are not sincere and have made dishonest attempts to discredit the church. The first one is a matter of study the second is Satanic in nature for Satan is the father of lies.
Very well said Dan. I like your analytical style.
Loved it!
My favorite apologist!!!
Another enjoyable 45 minutes............
Simple, insightful, and true. I gained my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon at age 14 after prayerful asking and reading the entire book. After that, the truth of the restoration followed in both reason and faith.
Jenny Jeffery can you show me evidence of nephite lamanite or jeridite civilizations in America?
@@shawnbradford2243 there is actually a really good amount of archeological evidence for that considering how little archeology has been done in the Americas
Colton Kerbs one please cite your sources for the evidence. Two what makes you think little archeology has been done in the Americas?
Colton Kerbs still waiting on that really good archeological evidence you while at the same time saying not much archeology has been done on the continent.
@@shawnbradford2243 less than 1% of all archaeological sites in the Americas have been unearthed. You can't expect to find anything
This is making me think. Most conmen usually work on their own. They don't get dozens of people to go along with their cons. Frank Abagnale for example worked alone, he didn't get hundreds to go along with his lies. It doesn't really make sense to con people this way either.
What do you make of cult leaders?
@@lilacpilot3437 you've got a fair point there. I would say though cult leaders usually end up wealthy. They usually have simplistic schemes. The book of Mormon is anything but a simplistic scheme. Jim Jones, David Koresh didn't write a new volume of scripture. L. Ron Hubbard you could argue did. But I feel like that comparison is really lazy. L. Ron Hubbard basically just wrote science fiction stories. He didn't write extremely elaborate scripture that interweaves with existing scriptures and dogmas and ancient cultures, but also adding very profound, inspiring, and revolutionary doctrines. Comparing them to Joseph is like comparing a fake dollar bill printed on a xerox copier to one that was created with multi million dollar equipment that had the capability of putting on watermarks, unique inks and chemicals and a hundred other highly scientific and sophisticated anti counterfeiting features. You could argue Mohammed and the Quran. Well having read some of the Quran, I can tell you it's not resurrected scripture. It doesn't claim to be either. The closest thing it reminds me of is the book of Psalms or proverbs, and the Book of Mormon just isn't that. I don't see Joseph ending up particularly wealthy. He also has a lot of detractors and very close people who turned against him. Yet many of them came back and none of them "exposed his fraudulent methods". Why wouldn't they? David Whitmer for example, is oddly enough one of the strongest testaments of the witnesses even though he thought Joseph was a fallen prophet. I just can't compute in my head a scenario where Joseph is a con man making this stuff up. At 23 years old, and with only 3 months time, no real education, no access to meaningful amounts of information on middle Eastern cultures and ancient Israelite religion. To put it simply, I've never seen anything that comes close to being like Joseph in all of history. I've never seen a con man or a cult leader do anything like this.
Thank you for sharing! ❤️
great job dan peterson
Lol, I love this guy 😊
Thanks very much.
I think I'll prepare a fireside exactly on this subject for my branch.
💛💛💛💛💛
It's true
Cumulative case for is eventually obvious. Cumulative case against is soon stupid. And that's something that goes for anything true and even that which is closer than the alternatives.
To me the Best Evidence for the Book of Mormon is, Drum Roll
THE BOOK OF MORMON,
ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF
JESUS CHRIST, and or,
The History inside itself.
Could any man written such
A complexity of Words, Titles,
Military PLANS, RELIGOUS Doctrines, etc, etc, etc.
To me also it is very perplexing but learning one piece at a time. i also can't disbelieve claims of book of Mormon translation miracle. Book of Mormon is a colossal production. Whole creation will endeavor to prove it fake but never possible to do so.
The plates are a character in the Book of Mormon. JUST like the Angel Moroni. The tangible reality of the plates affirms that the Book of Mormon hIstory is part of OUR REALITY. And over 200 years, the statements of the Book have proven to be about the REAL WORLD, including Arabia, and ancient American volcanic eruptions, and the names of ancient Egyptians, and the beliefs and practices of ancient Israelites, including their literary forms, and the writing of Hebrew in Egyptian characters. The fact that the English text that Joseph read to his scribes was NOT 1829 English, but English of 300 years earlier, shows Joseph did not create the text. I think that God designed the transmission of the Book of Mormon so that it would be full of evidence that would not be understood for a hundred years, so that it would become harder and harder to resist for people who are honest in heart, who are willing to believe in a living Christ. Moroni makes clear that HE and his father's Book will be witnesses at the judgment bar of God to testify against those who reject the Book. The world does not judge the Book. The Book judges mankind.
Compare his intellect and the way he carries himself to someone like John Dehlin. It's not even a contest.
God is real
@FairMormon and +FairMormon .... I am in search of The Truth and I would like to know why so much of the testimonials of the witnesses and Joseph Smith were done in secret or private away from the average human when Jesus' miracles and encounters were in the presence of many witnesses? I honestly just am seeking truth. Thank you in advance for the reply.
It was so that people could many of his miracles were done in the open and many testified of what they saw and heard. But maybe you're referring to the book of Mormon.
I believe the reason why the book of Mormon was only seen by few people was that we needed to find out for ourselves that it was true. It was necessary fat people act with faith by believing what they cannot see but is real and true.
Because when people believe and the spirit testifies afterwards of what they read they gain strength from God and they are unshakable far more so then if they see miracles for themselves.
There were many people after Joseph trying to steal the “Gold” plates to get money for them. Even Joseph had to wait until the Lord knew Joseph would have no thought as to get gain from the gold pates. He had to protect them with his life until the angel Moroni took them.
binmyrtmind 😂😂😂 you mean the reformed Egyptian golden plates?
God led me on a search for The Truth (nice to see you capitalize both words) many years ago. I can share with you where that journey took me and how that journey did not
lead me to Mormonism.
Shawn Bradford man you’re everywhere aren’t you? Almost not a single Church of Jesus a Christ video on RUclips that I don’t see you trying to dissuade people from their faith in Jesus Christ’s restored Gospel. Someday it’d be nice to meet you, take you to church, go to an open house for a new temple (because we’re building so many) and get inside your head a bit. Kicking against the pricks, as they say, has to get boring and old, right?
Honestly what is your beef with “Mormonism”? Why are you so fixated on this religion of 15-16 million people worldwide (5-8 million active)? I’m just so curious.
??? by faith, by faith, and by faith ...can answer better
Frustratingly fallacious...
Such as?
@@michaelhutchings6602His first argument, as an example. To quote him, the Book of Mormon "survives when it really shouldn't." Why shouldn't it? Does it survive, or is it being proverbially Weekend at Bernie's'd? In what way does it surviving indicate that its true? If survivorship does indicate truth, how long does an idea have to survive before that indicates that it's true? Was it less true when it was a new idea, since it hadn't had time to "survive when it really shouldn't"?
That's just his first argument. As I recall, it doesn't get any better.
@@perryekimaeHe elaborates what he means after that statement.
@@michaelhutchings6602 And the fallacies continue. I've listened to the whole thing before. I'm not going through the frustration again to break down what amounts to a series of fallacies. If it helps, look for strawmen, motte and baileys, red herrings, circular reasoning, and the like.
@@perryekimae>Claims he won’t go through the frustration again
>Cares enough to comment on the video and actively respond to comments
Powerful