I've just watched dozens of videos on how to adjust the chain, and none of them gave this specific important information. Thank you. I noticed the harder I push up and down on the chain it keeps changing my measurement. This video just told me what I was doing wrong and explain the correct way to do it. 👍
Been riding motorcycles most of my life. Never realized that the upper chain was not supposed to move when you were checking adjustment. I've been adjusting my chain too tight for years apparently. Thank you for this video!
Thank you for watching and being open minded about this topic to acquire new knowledge that can be very helpful for suspension and front sprocket bearing.
@geniuspackardbell369 Nothing happened because his chain wasn't too tight. The top of the chain SHOULD move. You're not getting an accurate slack measurement if there's unmeasured slack up top. The manufacturer spec is taking suspension travel into consideration. That's the entire point of having slack.
@@Alex-ck4in what is not true? Nuances? You can check it as presented on the video, you can also check it by applying excessive force to it and have completely different reading. You can argue what is wrong or right, but you can't argue that it can be done in various ways and it would be great to have that in the book.
Great vid Sir! I have been struggling to get my chain just right cause I wasnt sure how to check the tension. I'm may be overthinking it, but I like things perfect. Thanks again
Did you ever think that the Manual takes that into account? ....They designed the bike from scratch .. they are not stupid people ... think about that for a sec.
@@TYRONE_SHOELACES What does that even mean? Plenty of people here have had the same issue with their chains because manufacturers don't bother mentioning this specific information. Maybe you missed the point of this video, think about that for a sec.
@@RobbieLanceloti think what Tyrone is trying to tell is that the manual is allready takes the chain slack and tension all together. So when you mesure you chain to your manual its okay if the uper chain is moving.
I forget where I was tought it first, but a reoccurring tip is to check the chain at it's "longest". - When the wheel axle, the swing axle and the front sprocket axis align. As long as there is noticeable play, at least the chain wont be stressed from the suspension motion. I only did this on my dirtbikes (soft suspension and critical failure if it is wrong). The road bikes are too busy to get to on my own. Don't want to drop it - again. I just follow the manual and try to visualize if I'm safe for the swingarm movement.
Things your manual doesn't tell you about how to actually check the slack. I didnt know the top of the chain shouldn't move. I would tension it as much as it would go. Glad I watched this. Good info.
Nice advice Dave! I already watched many videos on adjusting chain slack---most of them did not looked unto top chain slack (also in Manual). They tend to measure the below chain---now that's additional info on my part. Thanks a lot!
First time I've ever heard someone mention the tight spot. Should have shown it with this video. Don't try to adjust your chain without turning the back wheel to find the tightest spot on the chain. You'll fuck up something.
I don't see the point with adjusting the bottom chain while not having the top chain move. You have to have all the slack out ot the chain at the top when adjusting the slack at the bottom. When driving your bike, the top chain is tight when accelerating or constant speed cruising. Any slack at the top would transfer to the bottom causing the bottom chain measurement to increase. In other words, if there 15mm slack at the top and the bottom was adjusted to 35 mm bottom, you now have 50mm at the bottom and 0mm at the top when the chain is being driven. I've never seen a manufacturers manual address the "no movement at the top" when adjusting chain slack. It just makes sense to be looking for total slack within the entire chain.
Finally, somebody else that actually understands how things work. Also, the slack at the top of the chain is going to vary. Eliminating slack at the top by moving it to the bottom is the only way to get an accurate measurement. The only reason slack is needed is to keep the chain from being too tight as the suspension moves through the stroke. Adding more slack to compensate for rider weight, suspension travel, a passenger, whatever... is unnecessary and accomplishes nothing. 1mm of slack when the chain is at its tightest point in the suspension travel is enough and that doesn't change, whether there's a 100 pound rider, a 700 pound rider, 20 passengers...
I followed my manual word for word. The chain was set exactly as described, but when Dave checked it at Buttonwillow, it was indeed way too tight when I was sitting on the bike. I was risking damage to my bike and interfering with the suspension and I didn't know it.
Lots of methods to do one task. We all learn what we consider works for us based on experience. Does the manual ask you to find the tight spot first? That would be interesting to see if they account for that.
When the shock is out for maintenance you could check and set the chain so you have free movement through the range. Then you know once its back together you have correct tension. Cut a chock of wood with a step in it and use that as a tension gauge.
Or, and this is justa fucking WILD idea, you could follow the user manual ! Fuck me if you are really arsed you could even buy the workshop manual and follow that ! It's not like those pesky engineers have designed your bike so that through full suspension compression with the chain tension set as specified it wont fucking kill you. Mind you if you are riding anything from the states you may need to check that.
After 45 yrs of riding I’ve finally learnt how to adjust properly, just done it. Also set my front and rear preload from your previous video. Transformed my Katana 1000 no longer fights me, especially the front end. Are you coming to the UK Dave?
Surely the chain should be loaded up....you have unmeasured slack on the chain top run otherwise using this method. .Put in first gear, wind wheel up then check total deflection on bottom chain run.
That unmeasured sag is necessary for when you have negative wheeltravel Your rear suspension IS capable of telescoping a little outward instead of just inward and will do so when 'dropping off' of humps or braking hard just like your forks will extend a bit when lifting the front wheel off the ground by the tripletree/handlebars (or wheelying)
@@NightdareNo, it's not. The slack on the bottom also compensates for suspension extension. One side of the chain is always going to be tight and all of the slack will be on the other side, whether you're braking or accelerating.
Great videos , I always ride two's up with the wife and I'm just wondering what the best amount of chain slack would be , the manual states 20-30 mm and I set it at around 25mm , I just don't want to put to much stress on the front sprocket bearing if I can help it , I have set up preload front and rear to compensate for the extra weight at around 290 lbs with both of us on the bike , the rear static sag is 10mm and riders sag about 35mm , the reason that got me concerned about this is I'm in the process of replacing my front sprocket oil seal and I've check the sprocket shaft for moment and there isn't any so I think the bearing is ok but I'm worried that maybe 25mm wasn't enough slack and maybe caused the seal to fail prematurely , it's an mt10 with 13,000 miles on the clock. Any advice would be much appreciated and thank you for all the knowledge you bring us riders over the years with your videos
Thank you for watching! 35-40mm is safe if you ride 2 up and yes, fair comment and concern on the very early failure of the front sprocket seal. Check the rear sprocket teeth to see if they are angles at all on the tips.
@@catalystreactionsbw brilliant thank you so much , I will check it all over and make sure it's all ok and I'll go for a new chain and sprocket next spring
Clean a chain every three hundred miles..... well that'd be two or thee times a week in summer for me then..... but my bikes have belts which I leave a little loose as another thing to remember is that sprockets get warm when in use so the chain will tighten as they expand (belts are even worse for this as the wheel pulleys are ally which expands more) and this in turn will create excess loads on swingarm and wheel bearings and if left unchecked can cause them premature wear or to collapse - wheel bearing failure at speed is not much fun !!!
I think, you should check/set the sag first. Because if the rider is heavy and/or the back of the bike is too soft the chain becomed very tight when riding
Mr Moss i don't necessarily agree with your comment that the top chain run should not be straight/tight when checking/setting chain slack. Is not the top chain run under tremendous tension when the engine is driving the back wheel and as straight and as tight as it will be. So all the chain 'slack' then will be the bottom chain run between where it leaves the front sprocket & is being picked up by the rear sprocket. So when the rear wheel hits a bump, dip etc while it's being driven, the chain slack needs to be a bit more positive than zero for when the suspension compresses to the point the centers of the front sprocket, the swing arm pivot and the rear wheel axle form a straight line between them, where/when the chain will be at its tightest. I would appreciate an explanation as to why setting the chain slack 'your way' is the correct way. Instead of just saying it is. Thanks
Thank you for your comment. Chain tension can be done in many different ways depending on the lesson received and theory behind the lesson. This is an examplke of what I was taught and so I put that on video for others to review, comment or or use. It is not a didactic lesson, just food for thought and opportunity to ponder. I prefer to do this with a load on the bike to make sure that the chain does not bind at close to maximum travel. T
My manual says to do it with the bike on the ground on its stand. I've always done my chain slack adjustments on the rear stand. It's there a huge difference from doing it either way? Good tip for looking at the top chain. Never knew that.
Like so many other commenters, I had never heard anyone say to watch the top row of the chain. But, I also note that you did not press down on the chain to determine total play in the chain. Can you elaborate ? I'm one who does read the manual often and when I look at their diagram ( Honda CBR 1000rr ) they appear to show that you only move the chain upwards, exactly the same way you did. Maybe I just answered my own question but would love your thoughts.
This is the way I was taught a long time ago and the key was to assess chain free play this way. Raising the tiop of the chain will immediately pull the bottom of the chain up. Next would be to ride the bike and get the chain hot and check it again and thirdly, put the rider on the bike and check it with them sat with feet down.
Great! Is there any difference between a "cold" chain & a "hot" chain i.e. measuring the slack before riding or just after a ride? Also, I bought a center stand for my Yam MT03 660cc & wonder if it makes any difference when measuring the chain slack whether the bike is on its side or center stand ??? Many thanks
Thanks for the great tip. How do you know where to lift the chain up And by lifting the bottom chain up with a screw driver how do you know what is tight/loose? Also how do you find the tight spot in the chain?
FIFTYmil from what I know you do what Dave showed all around the chain until you find the section that is the least stretched. Because a chain will never stretch evenly.
To know what is tight or loose, you grab your owners manual and the tension specs will be listed with a picture of the service being done. I use a pair a calipers that can measure the resting and loaded tension. Then hit that number or go a little below if you're going to really load the bike down. As that swingarm goes up (the bike's suspension compresses down, closer to the swingarm), the chain will bind the hell out of itself with heavy loads. Here warms you about all of that.
The top of the chain not moving does that stand for all motorbikes? Can’t see it documented anywhere and now I’m getting hung up about weather or not my Gixxer chain is right or not.
You can choose to use the manual guidance, the process you know and trust, the process where the tight spot is the go to or my method. Please stick with one to avoid confusion and don't change from that. I choose to be a lot more precise with this measurement, more so than others.
Bottom out of the shock sets chain free play so if you set it a 1.5 inches or 40mm, that should be sufficient. Double check by putting rhe full load on the bike.
Wow, I thought that chain looked a little tight. Since hearing Josh Brooks (BSB rider from Australia) advise to set slack so that the lower chain run cannot quite touch the swing arm, Ive adopted the same approach. Your video would suggest that’s too loose.
Thanks for your comment. in most cases other than 675 and R6, I try to get the chain to just about touch the plastic chain guide without making the top of the chain rise. In this case, not touching it might be considered too tight.
@@daniellacko6620 Not sure what you are asking, so If the chain is kinked with frozen links, you can soak it in kerosene for a few days. If that does not help, replace the chain. If the chain is tight then you can move the axle forward but you have to check the tight spot of the chain.
@@catalystreactionsbw it has a few tight spots so it will be replaced just wanted to ask an opinion. the stock chain was good for 8500 miles this new one i got summer only was expensive with the sprocket but only lived 4000 miles... sucks :/
That's one I've seen way too many people that have ridden for decades get wrong... Just got to laugh when they ask me why my chain looks to tight. Then they'll start up on my tires and say I wouldn't run those tires, they're (Dunlop Track Tires) bad! *"They're really great tires, but wear out to fast! How many miles you got on them, 1k miles?"* Nope, about 6k... *"REALLY?!"* They ran so much slack that I was terrified following people who ran it so loose getting up in MPH... Some are clueless.
Hi Dave what's your approach on KTM's measurement of chain slack? Apparently my user manual says to measure the distance betweeen 1.) a chain link and 2.) the bottom of the swing arm for chain tension. And so far I have had quite some chain slaps using the technique by them. Cheers
I always try to find a measurement technique that "works" for me. Sometimesd that is the stock method as per handbook, other times it is a unique method that I discover that generally works best. If a given technique creates chain slap, then the chain is tightened in very small increments until that disappears. Then assess the same measurement point to see what you need for your bike.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you Dave. Biggest takeaway from your guide for me is to not let the upper part of the chain moves as slack is taken. It eliminates wrong measurement.
I don’t need any more information on chains or bikes because by the time I’ve finished digesting what I’ve read and seen on the internet! You know what ? I just want to ride the thing
Why does my service manual say "The upper section of the chain should be taut, while pushing the lower section up and checking the distance between the swing arm, should be 5 to 7mm of gap"
That is how the service manual wants you to do this. As with all things, there are other ways to get to the same goal. Additionally, I try to make sure that I get the rider/load on the bike and check chain tension at that point as well.
We've all seen the measurement diagrams...... Dave's got experience with thousands of bikes. My uneducated guess is that there's a certain swingarm angle "range" ..... no matter if a bike's angle is at the upper spec, or lower, it wouldn't affect slack much between the two until you surpass 70% shock travel- that's when the real stretch begins. Only factors i'm curious about is- shimming the rear height and/or running a smaller front sprocket? I'm assuming the same procedure taught here would still be applied?
Yes, correct. We try to keep swing arm angle at 10-12 degrees and then based on rear axle position, spring and valve the shock appropriately based on leverage and rider skill.
All good stuff, but its the tension of the top run of chain, not the bottom, that's critical as this is is where the drive takes place. The bottom run of chain is relaxed and as its doing no work, its not under stress. Its just that its easier to judge the tension of the bottom run.
Dear Dave Could You please help me with the tyre choice for 2011 Speed Triple R. My girlfriend just bought one second hand with BT S21R on it ( Rear tyre god profile front worn and squared). At present bike feels like effort is needed to maintain the lean and it doesn't go into lean very swiftly) In Your opinion should we try another set of S21 or would You recommend a different profile tyre. Thank You Jakub
Hi Jakub. Please tell me what you weigh in kgs without motorcycle gear on. How experienced a rider are you? How many kms on the odometer now? Please send the answers to dave@davemosstuning.com
Both extend the shock and take the stress off the rear of the bike. I personally prefer a center or rear stand so I can rotate the rear wheel at will to check various parts of the chain.
If the chain is binding from being too tight, the wheel will not spin. If the chain clicks and the wheel spins freely this may be an alignment problem and/or the chain is worn.
pictures of dictators who murder Uighurs for fun........and don't let their citizens use anything like youtube that might actually criticize them ......................make sure the chain is good and tight around his neck...........
When the gearbox output shaft , swinging arm pivot and rear axel are all in line , that’s the tightest point ( unless there is wear - another issue all together ) . I’ve only been a professional motorcycle mechanic for 35 years and I’m calling bullshit on this video . If you are using the manufacturer recommended slack , it’s all on one side ,ie it’s on the bottom with the slack taken up on the top .
I replaced my chain with a brand new chain and sprocket kit and the tick marks are equal on both sides.BUT my chain is on the loose side and the reading is not marking on the “new chain” or blue mark. It’s reading near the “replace chain” mark. WHY? It’s a brand new kit. Please help.
Wish you could have shown how to find a tight spot while checking tension, this however was very informative something I'll definitely use when check my slack which will be real soon
I have a Tiger 900GT and 'chain slack' is something I have to admit being paranoid about. I've watched numerous videos and read the official manual - which IMHO is still ambiguous in some aspects. The manual says 'Place the motorcycle on a level surface and hold it in an upright position with no weight on it. Rotate the rear wheel by pushing the motorcycle to find the position where the drive chain is tightest and measure the vertical movement of the drive chain midway between the sprockets'. OK so in this video the bike is leaning on the kickstand - is that acceptable or just specific to the bike in the video? The Tiger manual doesn't say which way to push the bike (to tighten the chain) nor which part of the chain should be 'tightest' (top or bottom)? I'm guessing from this quote that placing the bike on a centre stand is not acceptable? Apologies for these noob questions, I've only been riding a year.
This is a great question and thank you for it. There are many, many ways to do this so as a new rider, the simplist way is going to be the best and in time, you can make it more complicated./ For now, the technique in the video makes it much easier for you. By all means find the "tight spot" and start there for the adjustment and when checking, make sure that you do not force the top of the chain upward.
If the chain is too tight, it binds and pulls on the counter shaft bearing. It also stops the shock from moving further in the arc it should and the load is transferred directly to the tire to be the suspension. In this case (for every second the bike is being ridden), the tire wear is accelerated due to the excess load it has to sustain/endure. Hope this helps.
@@catalystreactionsbw Does this mean with maximum load on the rear (deepest position of the wheel) I should still have some clearance or how I can check it? The standard values from the manual seems to be far away from your recommendation?
@@catalystreactionsbw should you be sitting on the bike with the wheels on the ground, with the suspension compressed to check for chain slack? manual says to check chain slack with bike on the side stand, makes me want to buy a bloddy shaft drive.
If the wheel is not exact, the wheel is off center form impacts with sharp edged bumps or the mounting points are worn allowing the wheel to be tightened very slightly off center.
The bike has 22k miles on it now, could it be a swing arm- bushing.. Maybe getting worn? I suppose I should pull the rear shock and check it for movement with a dial.guage.. I noticed a wobble- on the sprocket, so cleaned the cush drive inspected wheel, hub sprocket, etc reinstalled wheel, noticed the alignment is not exact, rear sprocket is slightly right of the front. Just enough to cause the chain to click as it engages the sprocket. The swing arm doesn't appear to be worn where the bushing contacts it-
Smart guys please help, i have Yamaha MT09 2020 year, and i found in service manual it says chain tension should be in range from 5-15mm, this sounds crazy to me, can someone explain this?
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks for opinion, we share the same one, i guess i will stick to about 25mm slack until i get logical explanation for numbers in manual :/
I think you meant to say, "if it is a track bike, you are going to use lLESS tension so you dont give up travel". More tension means restricting more travel, no? One of us has not had enough coffee; it very well might be me. Can someone keep me honest here?
2016 MY Speed Triple R - can't actually see the upper part of the chain - hidden by single sided swing arm - assume gently lifting the chain (as you demonstrated) will be OK..?
So many other videos show dudes pulling the chain down with 2-10lbs or force the say and pulling it all the way up till the top of the chain goes completely straight, and even one on motorcycle magazine, so.... who's right?
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply, I've decided to go and ask Honda ( I have and nc700x) themselves, see what they say on the matter, because really, there is no guidance in the owners manuals besides, "check it in the middle of the chain", really? So we'll see.
@@anthonyvasquezmusicalis Good for you to exercise due diligence. The video came from how I was taught by a master mechanic many decades ago. That is the technique that I had had consistently good results with. Once you pick a method, keep it the same for a while.
Chains Are difficult things because they are loose or appear to be loose but when you sit on them they are as tight as balls go figure can't never figure that out everyone always shows you the bottom tension no one tells you the tension of the chain when you're actually sitting on the bike and they are vastly different so who the hell really knows definitely not me I do my best but God knows if it's right what channel is about 10 mm slack to the swing arm on the bottom as per manual but when I sit on the bike it is tight as hell I need an answer man
I would check the rear axle alignment first, then I would check you have the front sprocket on the right way IF it is directional (ie: there is one side thicker, one side thinner).
It pulls on the output shaft bearing and that stress ovals out the bearing seat. It also locks out the rear shock and puts the rear tire under severe duress while you bounce out of the seat over bumps.
I've just watched dozens of videos on how to adjust the chain, and none of them gave this specific important information. Thank you.
I noticed the harder I push up and down on the chain it keeps changing my measurement. This video just told me what I was doing wrong and explain the correct way to do it. 👍
Been riding motorcycles most of my life. Never realized that the upper chain was not supposed to move when you were checking adjustment. I've been adjusting my chain too tight for years apparently. Thank you for this video!
Thank you for watching and being open minded about this topic to acquire new knowledge that can be very helpful for suspension and front sprocket bearing.
@@catalystreactionsbw It has been helpful! Love watching your content.
@@wrenchrat Thank you!
What was the result of that? (Whole life time of over tensioning) Did you have a damage or something else..?
@geniuspackardbell369 Nothing happened because his chain wasn't too tight. The top of the chain SHOULD move. You're not getting an accurate slack measurement if there's unmeasured slack up top. The manufacturer spec is taking suspension travel into consideration. That's the entire point of having slack.
Excellent guideline. The manufacturers never bother with these nuances in the manuals! Thank you!
What if the manufacturer didn't mention because its not true? 🤔
@@Alex-ck4in what is not true? Nuances? You can check it as presented on the video, you can also check it by applying excessive force to it and have completely different reading. You can argue what is wrong or right, but you can't argue that it can be done in various ways and it would be great to have that in the book.
Can't even get a manual for late model Triumph. Have to pay the thieves just to reset the light, so I don't.
Most informative video I have ever watched on chain slack and it was 3minutes long. Excellent work
I did not know about watching the chain on top. Thanks Dave !
"I need more coffee" Another great video, thanks Dave :-)
As a father of 4, “I need more coffee” was one of the most “dad” things I’ve heard in a long time 😂
Funny, just did this the other day, but didn't even notice the top part of the chain... Guess I'll be checking it again 👍😁
Great vid Sir! I have been struggling to get my chain just right cause I wasnt sure how to check the tension. I'm may be overthinking it, but I like things perfect. Thanks again
This is gold, they don't tell you that in the manual. Thanks Dave!
Did you ever think that the Manual takes that into account? ....They designed the bike from scratch .. they are not stupid people ... think about that for a sec.
@@TYRONE_SHOELACES What does that even mean?
Plenty of people here have had the same issue with their chains because manufacturers don't bother mentioning this specific information.
Maybe you missed the point of this video, think about that for a sec.
@@RobbieLanceloti think what Tyrone is trying to tell is that the manual is allready takes the chain slack and tension all together. So when you mesure you chain to your manual its okay if the uper chain is moving.
I forget where I was tought it first, but a reoccurring tip is to check the chain at it's "longest".
- When the wheel axle, the swing axle and the front sprocket axis align. As long as there is noticeable play, at least the chain wont be stressed from the suspension motion.
I only did this on my dirtbikes (soft suspension and critical failure if it is wrong). The road bikes are too busy to get to on my own. Don't want to drop it - again. I just follow the manual and try to visualize if I'm safe for the swingarm movement.
Another gem of a video. Thanks Dave. 👍🏼
You are a life saver for motorcyclist. Keep up the great work. Appreciate ur help.
Things your manual doesn't tell you about how to actually check the slack. I didnt know the top of the chain shouldn't move. I would tension it as much as it would go. Glad I watched this. Good info.
I didn't know that either so I had to readjust mine after watching this. Thanks Dave.
Nice advice Dave! I already watched many videos on adjusting chain slack---most of them did not looked unto top chain slack (also in Manual). They tend to measure the below chain---now that's additional info on my part. Thanks a lot!
Good video about Chain Tension and adjustment. Learned something today
As a new rider that plans on doing his own maintenance I felt this video was a crucial step I was missing.
Thank you for taking time to create your post and thank you for watching. Great to read you are taking ownership of maintenance.
I wish I knew this when I was a new rider. This channel is a goldmine!
Thank you - please let other riders know about it so you can help me in my mission of saving a life every day @@sam2920
First time I've ever heard someone mention the tight spot. Should have shown it with this video.
Don't try to adjust your chain without turning the back wheel to find the tightest spot on the chain. You'll fuck up something.
perfectly explained ! think you excellent point bout affecting upper chain movement when testing slack !
Thank you!
i meant thank you you know your onions !
This has always bothered me.. huge thanks Dave !
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Thank you. I tought my chain was too loose.
Still learning shit from you Dave hahaha. I was always told have the slack take up until the top chain does go taught and then thats your slack.
G`day Dave,thanks do much for giving us all your wonderful knowledge.Great videos,excellent knowledge,thanks again Mate.
I don't see the point with adjusting the bottom chain while not having the top chain move. You have to have all the slack out ot the chain at the top when adjusting the slack at the bottom. When driving your bike, the top chain is tight when accelerating or constant speed cruising. Any slack at the top would transfer to the bottom causing the bottom chain measurement to increase. In other words, if there 15mm slack at the top and the bottom was adjusted to 35 mm bottom, you now have 50mm at the bottom and 0mm at the top when the chain is being driven. I've never seen a manufacturers manual address the "no movement at the top" when adjusting chain slack. It just makes sense to be looking for total slack within the entire chain.
Finally, somebody else that actually understands how things work. Also, the slack at the top of the chain is going to vary. Eliminating slack at the top by moving it to the bottom is the only way to get an accurate measurement. The only reason slack is needed is to keep the chain from being too tight as the suspension moves through the stroke. Adding more slack to compensate for rider weight, suspension travel, a passenger, whatever... is unnecessary and accomplishes nothing. 1mm of slack when the chain is at its tightest point in the suspension travel is enough and that doesn't change, whether there's a 100 pound rider, a 700 pound rider, 20 passengers...
I followed my manual word for word. The chain was set exactly as described, but when Dave checked it at Buttonwillow, it was indeed way too tight when I was sitting on the bike. I was risking damage to my bike and interfering with the suspension and I didn't know it.
Yeah I'm having the same problem on mine. The correct, by the manual, tension is too tight. Also followed the manual word for word.
Interesting. The manual for my KTM 990 acutally states that the upper part of the chain must be taut when checking the slack.
Lots of methods to do one task. We all learn what we consider works for us based on experience. Does the manual ask you to find the tight spot first? That would be interesting to see if they account for that.
@@catalystreactionsbw It says chain wear is not always even, so the measurement should be repeated at different chain positions.
When the shock is out for maintenance you could check and set the chain so you have free movement through the range.
Then you know once its back together you have correct tension.
Cut a chock of wood with a step in it and use that as a tension gauge.
Or, and this is justa fucking WILD idea, you could follow the user manual ! Fuck me if you are really arsed you could even buy the workshop manual and follow that ! It's not like those pesky engineers have designed your bike so that through full suspension compression with the chain tension set as specified it wont fucking kill you. Mind you if you are riding anything from the states you may need to check that.
@@cunningpunt not here to argue 👍
@@cunningpuntThank you. People are overcomplicating this.
Heads up Dave. Manuals are now pdf files on our phones. Specs and diagrams are seconds away as are your helpful videos.
Excellent point for those that have great eyesight! :) helps on the computer to enlarge images when needed.
After 45 yrs of riding I’ve finally learnt how to adjust properly, just done it. Also set my front and rear preload from your previous video. Transformed my Katana 1000 no longer fights me, especially the front end. Are you coming to the UK Dave?
Congratulations Geoff! If this C19 madness allows international travel, I was planning to head to the UK this year.
Wow I think I've been doing it wrong. Thanks. Going to check it tomorrow.
Awesome advice. Thank you
Thank you for watching.
Thank you for sharing your idea 💡
If I want spiritual enlightenment I will go and see a guru. If I want to learn anything about my bike I watch Dave Moss
One day you will look back at this video and feel a little bit silly - and then probably delete it...
(Hope no one gets hurt in the mean time.)
never gets ridden. you were right the first time
UK steve .
Very good video 👍👍
Surely the chain should be loaded up....you have unmeasured slack on the chain top run otherwise using this method.
.Put in first gear, wind wheel up then check total deflection on bottom chain run.
I prefer gear box in neutral, find the tight spot,
sit the rider on the bike and check it. You can use any method you want.
That unmeasured sag is necessary for when you have negative wheeltravel
Your rear suspension IS capable of telescoping a little outward instead of just inward and will do so when 'dropping off' of humps or braking hard
just like your forks will extend a bit when lifting the front wheel off the ground by the tripletree/handlebars (or wheelying)
@@NightdareNo, it's not. The slack on the bottom also compensates for suspension extension. One side of the chain is always going to be tight and all of the slack will be on the other side, whether you're braking or accelerating.
Thank Dave 👍🏾
The best! Thank you for the video and this hint! :)
Great videos , I always ride two's up with the wife and I'm just wondering what the best amount of chain slack would be , the manual states 20-30 mm and I set it at around 25mm , I just don't want to put to much stress on the front sprocket bearing if I can help it , I have set up preload front and rear to compensate for the extra weight at around 290 lbs with both of us on the bike , the rear static sag is 10mm and riders sag about 35mm , the reason that got me concerned about this is I'm in the process of replacing my front sprocket oil seal and I've check the sprocket shaft for moment and there isn't any so I think the bearing is ok but I'm worried that maybe 25mm wasn't enough slack and maybe caused the seal to fail prematurely , it's an mt10 with 13,000 miles on the clock. Any advice would be much appreciated and thank you for all the knowledge you bring us riders over the years with your videos
Thank you for watching! 35-40mm is safe if you ride 2 up and yes, fair comment and concern on the very early failure of the front sprocket seal. Check the rear sprocket teeth to see if they are angles at all on the tips.
@@catalystreactionsbw brilliant thank you so much , I will check it all over and make sure it's all ok and I'll go for a new chain and sprocket next spring
Interesting. I’m going to check mine now lol
You the best Dave, god bless you
every 300miles...*hangs head in shame*
Cheers Dave!
Clean a chain every three hundred miles..... well that'd be two or thee times a week in summer for me then..... but my bikes have belts which I leave a little loose as another thing to remember is that sprockets get warm when in use so the chain will tighten as they expand (belts are even worse for this as the wheel pulleys are ally which expands more) and this in turn will create excess loads on swingarm and wheel bearings and if left unchecked can cause them premature wear or to collapse - wheel bearing failure at speed is not much fun !!!
the movement in your chain was not 30-40mm yet you said it was a little loose? what movement range are you looking for in a road bike?
In a road bike I would look for 25mm to start. If I am only using 60-70% of shock travel, I don't need 30-40mm as I would on my race bike.
I think, you should check/set the sag first. Because if the rider is heavy and/or the back of the bike is too soft the chain becomed very tight when riding
What your bike's manual says
I was #100 to 👍🏻...
I don't know what that means,,, but I'm proud of it anyway lol
Mr Moss i don't necessarily agree with your comment that the top chain run should not be straight/tight when checking/setting chain slack.
Is not the top chain run under tremendous tension when the engine is driving the back wheel and as straight and as tight as it will be.
So all the chain 'slack' then will be the bottom chain run between where it leaves the front sprocket & is being picked up by the rear sprocket.
So when the rear wheel hits a bump, dip etc while it's being driven, the chain slack needs to be a bit more positive than zero for when the suspension compresses to the point the centers of the front sprocket, the swing arm pivot and the rear wheel axle form a straight line between them, where/when the chain will be at its tightest.
I would appreciate an explanation as to why setting the chain slack 'your way' is the correct way. Instead of just saying it is. Thanks
Thank you for your comment. Chain tension can be done in many different ways depending on the lesson received and theory behind the lesson. This is an examplke of what I was taught and so I put that on video for others to review, comment or or use. It is not a didactic lesson, just food for thought and opportunity to ponder. I prefer to do this with a load on the bike to make sure that the chain does not bind at close to maximum travel. T
My manual says to do it with the bike on the ground on its stand. I've always done my chain slack adjustments on the rear stand. It's there a huge difference from doing it either way? Good tip for looking at the top chain. Never knew that.
No difference at all - both techniques have the chain under static sag load.
Thanks for the video Davo!
Like so many other commenters, I had never heard anyone say to watch the top row of the chain. But, I also note that you did not press down on the chain to determine total play in the chain. Can you elaborate ? I'm one who does read the manual often and when I look at their diagram ( Honda CBR 1000rr ) they appear to show that you only move the chain upwards, exactly the same way you did. Maybe I just answered my own question but would love your thoughts.
This is the way I was taught a long time ago and the key was to assess chain free play this way. Raising the tiop of the chain will immediately pull the bottom of the chain up. Next would be to ride the bike and get the chain hot and check it again and thirdly, put the rider on the bike and check it with them sat with feet down.
@@catalystreactionsbw Many thanks for your reply and your video.
thank you
Thanks!
Great! Is there any difference between a "cold" chain & a "hot" chain i.e. measuring the slack before riding or just after a ride? Also, I bought a center stand for my Yam MT03 660cc & wonder if it makes any difference when measuring the chain slack whether the bike is on its side or center stand ??? Many thanks
Yes, metal expands with heat so after a 40 minute ride, the chain tension might be less depending on your pace.
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching.
Thanks for the great tip. How do you know where to lift the chain up And by lifting the bottom chain up with a screw driver how do you know what is tight/loose? Also how do you find the tight spot in the chain?
FIFTYmil from what I know you do what Dave showed all around the chain until you find the section that is the least stretched. Because a chain will never stretch evenly.
To know what is tight or loose, you grab your owners manual and the tension specs will be listed with a picture of the service being done. I use a pair a calipers that can measure the resting and loaded tension. Then hit that number or go a little below if you're going to really load the bike down. As that swingarm goes up (the bike's suspension compresses down, closer to the swingarm), the chain will bind the hell out of itself with heavy loads. Here warms you about all of that.
I guess you mean on which area on the chain you should lift? Right in the middle between the two sprockets.
Thank you for sharing this info.
Brill. Thanks Dave.
what's brill about it ffs? it's crap video.
The top of the chain not moving does that stand for all motorbikes? Can’t see it documented anywhere and now I’m getting hung up about weather or not my Gixxer chain is right or not.
You can choose to use the manual guidance, the process you know and trust, the process where the tight spot is the go to or my method. Please stick with one to avoid confusion and don't change from that. I choose to be a lot more precise with this measurement, more so than others.
Elements 💯🙌🏽🙏
Dave, is your preference to have the bike on a rear stand or the side stand?
No preference at all, but easier on a side stand to extend the swing arm
So for 2 up riding. Should it be more loose? Or do both rider and pillion have to sit and then check the tension?
Bottom out of the shock sets chain free play so if you set it a 1.5 inches or 40mm, that should be sufficient. Double check by putting rhe full load on the bike.
Wow, I thought that chain looked a little tight. Since hearing Josh Brooks (BSB rider from Australia) advise to set slack so that the lower chain run cannot quite touch the swing arm, Ive adopted the same approach. Your video would suggest that’s too loose.
Thanks for your comment. in most cases other than 675 and R6, I try to get the chain to just about touch the plastic chain guide without making the top of the chain rise. In this case, not touching it might be considered too tight.
@@catalystreactionsbw Sir is it even possible to loosen up a tight chain?
@@daniellacko6620 Not sure what you are asking, so If the chain is kinked with frozen links, you can soak it in kerosene for a few days. If that does not help, replace the chain. If the chain is tight then you can move the axle forward but you have to check the tight spot of the chain.
@@catalystreactionsbw it has a few tight spots so it will be replaced just wanted to ask an opinion. the stock chain was good for 8500 miles this new one i got summer only was expensive with the sprocket but only lived 4000 miles... sucks :/
That's one I've seen way too many people that have ridden for decades get wrong... Just got to laugh when they ask me why my chain looks to tight.
Then they'll start up on my tires and say I wouldn't run those tires, they're (Dunlop Track Tires) bad! *"They're really great tires, but wear out to fast! How many miles you got on them, 1k miles?"*
Nope, about 6k... *"REALLY?!"*
They ran so much slack that I was terrified following people who ran it so loose getting up in MPH... Some are clueless.
"Cheating"...I don't know about that, it seems to me like it's cheating to not account for the slack at the top.
Hi Dave what's your approach on KTM's measurement of chain slack? Apparently my user manual says to measure the distance betweeen 1.) a chain link and 2.) the bottom of the swing arm for chain tension. And so far I have had quite some chain slaps using the technique by them. Cheers
I always try to find a measurement technique that "works" for me. Sometimesd that is the stock method as per handbook, other times it is a unique method that I discover that generally works best. If a given technique creates chain slap, then the chain is tightened in very small increments until that disappears. Then assess the same measurement point to see what you need for your bike.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you Dave. Biggest takeaway from your guide for me is to not let the upper part of the chain moves as slack is taken. It eliminates wrong measurement.
@@HienPham-hk9yjIt actually guarantees a wrong measurement.
I don’t need any more information on chains or bikes because by the time I’ve finished digesting what I’ve read and seen on the internet! You know what ? I just want to ride the thing
Why does my service manual say "The upper section of the chain should be taut, while pushing the lower section up and checking the distance between the swing arm, should be 5 to 7mm of gap"
That is how the service manual wants you to do this. As with all things, there are other ways to get to the same goal. Additionally, I try to make sure that I get the rider/load on the bike and check chain tension at that point as well.
We've all seen the measurement diagrams...... Dave's got experience with thousands of bikes. My uneducated guess is that there's a certain swingarm angle "range" ..... no matter if a bike's angle is at the upper spec, or lower, it wouldn't affect slack much between the two until you surpass 70% shock travel- that's when the real stretch begins. Only factors i'm curious about is- shimming the rear height and/or running a smaller front sprocket? I'm assuming the same procedure taught here would still be applied?
Yes, correct. We try to keep swing arm angle at 10-12 degrees and then based on rear axle position, spring and valve the shock appropriately based on leverage and rider skill.
All good stuff, but its the tension of the top run of chain, not the bottom, that's critical as this is is where the drive takes place. The bottom run of chain is relaxed and as its doing no work, its not under stress. Its just that its easier to judge the tension of the bottom run.
🤣🤣🤣Just stop. You're trying to sound smart but the opposite is happening.
Dear Dave
Could You please help me with the tyre choice for 2011 Speed Triple R. My girlfriend just bought one second hand with BT S21R on it ( Rear tyre god profile front worn and squared).
At present bike feels like effort is needed to maintain the lean and it doesn't go into lean very swiftly)
In Your opinion should we try another set of S21 or would You recommend a different profile tyre.
Thank You
Jakub
Hi Jakub. Please tell me what you weigh in kgs without motorcycle gear on. How experienced a rider are you? How many kms on the odometer now? Please send the answers to dave@davemosstuning.com
great info sir..
Is it better to use the side stand or center stand to make the adjustment? Thanks for any help!
Both extend the shock and take the stress off the rear of the bike. I personally prefer a center or rear stand so I can rotate the rear wheel at will to check various parts of the chain.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply. I would prefer that as well. Nice to see that a pro like you agrees with me. Lightning strikes!
I can hear front sprocket click sound when spin the wheel. Is it too tight or loose?
If the chain is binding from being too tight, the wheel will not spin. If the chain clicks and the wheel spins freely this may be an alignment problem and/or the chain is worn.
pictures of dictators who murder Uighurs for fun........and don't let their citizens use anything like youtube that might actually criticize them ......................make sure the chain is good and tight around his neck...........
my chain slack is waaaay too loose after watching this. My chain basically lifts up to the swingarm
When the gearbox output shaft , swinging arm pivot and rear axel are all in line , that’s the tightest point ( unless there is wear - another issue all together ) . I’ve only been a professional motorcycle mechanic for 35 years and I’m calling bullshit on this video . If you are using the manufacturer recommended slack , it’s all on one side ,ie it’s on the bottom with the slack taken up on the top .
I replaced my chain with a brand new chain and sprocket kit and the tick marks are equal on both sides.BUT my chain is on the loose side and the reading is not marking on the “new chain” or blue mark. It’s reading near the “replace chain” mark. WHY? It’s a brand new kit. Please help.
Wish you could have shown how to find a tight spot while checking tension, this however was very informative something I'll definitely use when check my slack which will be real soon
We have a video on the tight spot: ruclips.net/video/DUhF9He5_Wo/видео.html
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you for that link, it's these little adjustments that some people like me don't know about that makes a lot of difference.
@@WILLY52368 He stated it clearly in this video that the tight spot is something to be checked and was clear he had made a video on it.
I have a Tiger 900GT and 'chain slack' is something I have to admit being paranoid about. I've watched numerous videos and read the official manual - which IMHO is still ambiguous in some aspects. The manual says 'Place the motorcycle on a level surface and hold it in an upright position with no weight on it. Rotate the rear wheel by pushing the motorcycle to find the position where the drive chain is tightest and measure the vertical movement of the drive chain midway between the sprockets'.
OK so in this video the bike is leaning on the kickstand - is that acceptable or just specific to the bike in the video? The Tiger manual doesn't say which way to push the bike (to tighten the chain) nor which part of the chain should be 'tightest' (top or bottom)? I'm guessing from this quote that placing the bike on a centre stand is not acceptable?
Apologies for these noob questions, I've only been riding a year.
This is a great question and thank you for it. There are many, many ways to do this so as a new rider, the simplist way is going to be the best and in time, you can make it more complicated./ For now, the technique in the video makes it much easier for you. By all means find the "tight spot" and start there for the adjustment and when checking, make sure that you do not force the top of the chain upward.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks. So in the video has the chain been 'tightened' beforehand by moving the bike forwards or backwards?
@@simonwalker1833 forwards
Sir, could you be more specific on how the chain tension affects tyre wear.
If the chain is too tight, it binds and pulls on the counter shaft bearing. It also stops the shock from moving further in the arc it should and the load is transferred directly to the tire to be the suspension. In this case (for every second the bike is being ridden), the tire wear is accelerated due to the excess load it has to sustain/endure. Hope this helps.
@@catalystreactionsbw Got it, Thanks.
@@catalystreactionsbw Does this mean with maximum load on the rear (deepest position of the wheel) I should still have some clearance or how I can check it? The standard values from the manual seems to be far away from your recommendation?
@@TurboAcki Ideally yes. You would load up and have someone else check it for you that you trust.
@@catalystreactionsbw should you be sitting on the bike with the wheels on the ground, with the suspension compressed to check for chain slack?
manual says to check chain slack with bike on the side stand, makes me want to buy a bloddy shaft drive.
Very informative
All these different vids have different ways of checking chain tension. Are they all right?
You can choose what resonates with you. I try to show methods as not everyone chooses one way.
انا من مصر كيف حالك ❤️
I am noticing the alignment is exact and the wheel is wanting to be slightly off in the swing arm- this is corrected by the wheel bushings?
If the wheel is not exact, the wheel is off center form impacts with sharp edged bumps or the mounting points are worn allowing the wheel to be tightened very slightly off center.
The bike has 22k miles on it now, could it be a swing arm- bushing.. Maybe getting worn? I suppose I should pull the rear shock and check it for movement with a dial.guage.. I noticed a wobble- on the sprocket, so cleaned the cush drive inspected wheel, hub sprocket, etc reinstalled wheel, noticed the alignment is not exact, rear sprocket is slightly right of the front. Just enough to cause the chain to click as it engages the sprocket. The swing arm doesn't appear to be worn where the bushing contacts it-
@@catalystreactionsbw wouldn't hurt to replace chain and sprockets., Can I turn a new bushing on the lathe for it?
Smart guys please help, i have Yamaha MT09 2020 year, and i found in service manual it says chain tension should be in range from 5-15mm, this sounds crazy to me, can someone explain this?
I doubt anyone will be able to explain that. Chain tension that tight will damage the cases and output shaft bearing. That must be a typo!
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks for opinion, we share the same one, i guess i will stick to about 25mm slack until i get logical explanation for numbers in manual :/
Good vid
When I was tightening my chain I didnt loose the axle nut, is that wrong? I still managed to tightened it though.
Interesting that the axle nut torque allowed you to still set the chain tension. Not wrong, but clearly the torque needs to be higher.
I think you meant to say, "if it is a track bike, you are going to use lLESS tension so you dont give up travel". More tension means restricting more travel, no? One of us has not had enough coffee; it very well might be me. Can someone keep me honest here?
Shouldn't you check chain slack with your weight on the bike?
You can this method, rider on or both. If passenger and touring load, better to check fully loaded.
I use to check the chain with the rider on it after checking with the bike on the stand. is it correct?
Yes, that is correct.
2016 MY Speed Triple R - can't actually see the upper part of the chain - hidden by single sided swing arm - assume gently lifting the chain (as you demonstrated) will be OK..?
Yes, correct!
So many other videos show dudes pulling the chain down with 2-10lbs or force the say and pulling it all the way up till the top of the chain goes completely straight, and even one on motorcycle magazine, so.... who's right?
As with life there are many ways to do one thing. See what is best based on how you think and rationalize the process and methodology.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply, I've decided to go and ask Honda ( I have and nc700x) themselves, see what they say on the matter, because really, there is no guidance in the owners manuals besides, "check it in the middle of the chain", really? So we'll see.
@@anthonyvasquezmusicalis Good for you to exercise due diligence. The video came from how I was taught by a master mechanic many decades ago. That is the technique that I had had consistently good results with. Once you pick a method, keep it the same for a while.
The other people are right.
Quick precise information, thank you..
Chains Are difficult things because they are loose or appear to be loose but when you sit on them they are as tight as balls go figure can't never figure that out everyone always shows you the bottom tension no one tells you the tension of the chain when you're actually sitting on the bike and they are vastly different so who the hell really knows definitely not me I do my best but God knows if it's right what channel is about 10 mm slack to the swing arm on the bottom as per manual but when I sit on the bike it is tight as hell I need an answer man
Dave, my chain wobbles when it comes off the lower portion of the front sprocket. The sprockets and chain are new. Any advice? 🇬🇧
I would check the rear axle alignment first, then I would check you have the front sprocket on the right way IF it is directional (ie: there is one side thicker, one side thinner).
Dave Moss Tuning many thanks. Will take a look.
Wow! cleaning after 300 miles! Better get to work now!
how it tends to tyre wear..please elaborate
The chain is tight the swing arm stops moving the tire has to do much more work is is under too much duress = excessive wear
whats the risk of having it too tight?
It pulls on the output shaft bearing and that stress ovals out the bearing seat. It also locks out the rear shock and puts the rear tire under severe duress while you bounce out of the seat over bumps.
🙌🏽
Wau hau Jeux de mots !