This is so beneficial for me to hear. I suffer from social anxiety disorder. Thank you for posting and translating what this great thinker had to say concerning anxiety.
Thinking about anxiety or listening to a lecture about anxiety actually makes me feel anxious. I hope a combination of stoicism and CBT will relieve me more and more from my (social) anxieties.
After struggling with some anxiety for a long life I've come to the conclusion that we are somewhat determined. It's not very easy to undo some of our programs laid down in early life. Still for me much of the Stoic belief system works for me on some level. Mostly in retrospect LOL
Wow! Thank you, M. Sadler! I've been feeling quite anxious for a couple days (but really, I've been dealing with anxiety problems for years), to the point where I mostly lost my appetite... I'm kind of thinking "a lot" about my own future, which will be pretty nomadic, once the winter ends. I was desperate to find something to educate myself regarding anxiety, and I felt like philosophy, the thing that I love to do and read a lot -- including the fact that psychotherapy didn't quite worked for me -- would be the best option, between this and consulting again. So I browsed something about "philosophy" and "anxiety", and here I am! Learning not only from Epictetus, but from you aswell! Thanks a lot for making that video! I'll subscribe, share and hit the like button! Keep up the awesome work, if you still love it, of course!
Well, there's quite a few resources in philosophy for addressing anxiety - some of them in explicit discussions about anxiety, some in connected discussions. Glad that the video has proven useful for you in that respect!
I smiled when you laughed saying that you shouldn't be anxious over what is not in your power. I have been looking into philosophy for a few months now and mainly focusing on George Long's translation of The Discourses of Epictetus. It is so easy to learn these concepts back to front but to put them in practise is hard- for me I have no anxiety mentally, I couldn't care less about the world and opinions, yet I stay quiet and feel anxious anyways. It is very hard for me at school because I wish I could do so much , and considering I've read most of this, I feel like a fool not to take action. Your thoughts sir?
I wonder how he would approach anxiety based on guilt. In a sense, one's past actions are beyond one's control, so a Stoic would presumably make amends as possible, then move on. But there are truly hellish moral dilemmas that are not so easily transcended, such as Orestes' clash of "shoulds" that lead to an irreversible "Sophie's Choice" that seems to be both impossible to resolve and impossible *not* to second guess oneself about afterwards, possible forever. The Bhagavad Gita seems to resolve just such a dilemma through recourse to duty, and I suppose Orestes has the option of dutifully accepting the punishments of the Erinyes as and inevitable consequence of such a ghastly double bind. "I was bound to act, and I acted. If this causes me atrocious anxiety for the rest of my days, it's out of my control". This seems an extremely tall order (accepting anxiety with equanimity), but it seems possible, at least in theory. Having said that, the Erinyes' tortures may not be a metaphor for a guilty conscience or for anxiety. :-)
I never understood why Stoicism is generally associated with generally Mark Aurelius. For me Epictetus is more for fundamental, theoretic understanding, while Aurelius is the best practitioner. Seneca is somewhere in between.
There's always the drug alternative to fix anxiety. But personally, I've never tried them. I like this approach of rationalizing the fear away, but it doesn't work very well. It's ironic that the faculty that is being used to rationalize away anxiety is the cause if the anxiety. The more you think about how you're doing or will do (present and future events) the worse you feel. Maybe the solution isn't in thinking why you shouldn't be scared, but of character and having a strong will and mindset.
+Seth Perry Well, clearly you haven't found bits of the Stoic approach useful (there's a big difference between using little isolated parts of it, and working through the broader perspective). What Epictetus is advising is far from simply "rationalizing the fear away". Other people have found it very useful. What this points towards is that there's multiple workable approaches to anxiety, as there are to most complex matters in life.
+Gregory B. Sadler I was speaking of my personal experience, the method which you talk about in this particular video isn't useful to me - unfortunately. And you are correct, I haven't studied a more broad perspective of stoicism, and given the high amount of content in your channel - as of recent- that deals with stoicism; I doubt I'll be an expert of it anytime soon. Nevertheless, I highly value this philosophical method, so I'll try to learn more about it by watching your videos and doing some reading of my own. And I hope it is as you imply: I will find peace once I expand my knowledge on this subject, conversely, of just focusing on bits of it.
I think I have to agree. I really like the stoic philosophy tho and I'm sure it can be beneficial for anxiety. You can rationalize all you want but when the anxiety hits you, analyzing/logic won't help. It's easy going into a situation thinking "I don't really care what the crowd/person think, it doesn't really matter anyway". But then it strikes you anyway and now what? Embrace it? Either unconsciously following a belief system in that moment or just because of human psyche and history maybe it's just ingrained in our DNA to fear rejection? Maybe an alternative approach is to eliminate self-doubt, do your best, have a clear reason and not be too attached to the outcome (If I mess up, I mess up)? This way you're putting the focus on you and being true to yourself, doing your thing instead of trying to ignore the crowd's reaction? Does this make sense?
zoorrken Once anxiety hits, depending on the severity, it can be really hard to stop. Personally and if it's very intense, I just wait for it to pass. However, once it's over I try to understand what happened and how to prevent it. "Doing your thing instead of trying to ignore the crowd's reaction" I think that's the whole point, If you stay true to what you want to do and how you want to do it (i.e. you "do your thing"), if you can understand and internalize that that is what ultimately matters because you can't have absolute control over what others will think of you, then you can break free and the crowd won't seem as important. The tendency to define ourselves through the eyes of others instead of following our rules and values can be a source of anxiety.
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We live in such a great time to be able to watch lectures at any time anywhere.
The technology is indeed a game-changer
Epictetus gives better advice on anxiety than the modern psychiatrists i've met
+Simeon heath-moss Well, most of the psychiatrists, in the US, tend to focus of drug therapy these days, it seems
Simeon heath-moss We have that same distinction here.
What is his advice
He had a fresh approch to things: just a bright mind thinking rationaly about things, without much scholar tradition to condition him.
This is so beneficial for me to hear. I suffer from social anxiety disorder. Thank you for posting and translating what this great thinker had to say concerning anxiety.
+bi0lizard1 You're very welcome
Thinking about anxiety or listening to a lecture about anxiety actually makes me feel anxious. I hope a combination of stoicism and CBT will relieve me more and more from my (social) anxieties.
Anxiety over feeling anxious is pretty common. It sucks to go through it
Gregory B. Sadler
Thanks for your lectures, Gregory. It's highly appreciated!
You're very welcome!
After struggling with some anxiety for a long life I've come to the conclusion that we are somewhat determined. It's not very easy to undo some of our programs laid down in early life. Still for me much of the Stoic belief system works for me on some level. Mostly in retrospect LOL
Wow! Thank you, M. Sadler! I've been feeling quite anxious for a couple days (but really, I've been dealing with anxiety problems for years), to the point where I mostly lost my appetite... I'm kind of thinking "a lot" about my own future, which will be pretty nomadic, once the winter ends. I was desperate to find something to educate myself regarding anxiety, and I felt like philosophy, the thing that I love to do and read a lot -- including the fact that psychotherapy didn't quite worked for me -- would be the best option, between this and consulting again. So I browsed something about "philosophy" and "anxiety", and here I am! Learning not only from Epictetus, but from you aswell! Thanks a lot for making that video! I'll subscribe, share and hit the like button! Keep up the awesome work, if you still love it, of course!
Well, there's quite a few resources in philosophy for addressing anxiety - some of them in explicit discussions about anxiety, some in connected discussions. Glad that the video has proven useful for you in that respect!
Yes! I've known that Kierkegaard has been writting a bit about anxiety!
I smiled when you laughed saying that you shouldn't be anxious over what is not in your power. I have been looking into philosophy for a few months now and mainly focusing on George Long's translation of The Discourses of Epictetus. It is so easy to learn these concepts back to front but to put them in practise is hard- for me I have no anxiety mentally, I couldn't care less about the world and opinions, yet I stay quiet and feel anxious anyways. It is very hard for me at school because I wish I could do so much , and considering I've read most of this, I feel like a fool not to take action. Your thoughts sir?
What are you asking about specifically?
Love your videos professor.Very informative and simple.
+TheGoodMan Thanks!
Extremely personally helpful, thank you for making this video.
+Haley Star You're very welcome!
Agony coming from the greek word for anxiety, sounds about right.
Yes, except that in contemporary English, we tend to associate the term "agony" with extreme pain
@@GregoryBSadler Oh, that's my meaning. I suffer from anxiety issues, and I just thought it was funny that in greek, it's the root word for agony.
I wonder how he would approach anxiety based on guilt. In a sense, one's past actions are beyond one's control, so a Stoic would presumably make amends as possible, then move on. But there are truly hellish moral dilemmas that are not so easily transcended, such as Orestes' clash of "shoulds" that lead to an irreversible "Sophie's Choice" that seems to be both impossible to resolve and impossible *not* to second guess oneself about afterwards, possible forever.
The Bhagavad Gita seems to resolve just such a dilemma through recourse to duty, and I suppose Orestes has the option of dutifully accepting the punishments of the Erinyes as and inevitable consequence of such a ghastly double bind. "I was bound to act, and I acted. If this causes me atrocious anxiety for the rest of my days, it's out of my control". This seems an extremely tall order (accepting anxiety with equanimity), but it seems possible, at least in theory.
Having said that, the Erinyes' tortures may not be a metaphor for a guilty conscience or for anxiety.
:-)
If you chose, then why would you feel bad? YOU chose, that's what Marcus Aurelius says.
apprach anxiety and excitement is very similar
Awesome. thank you !
you're welcome!
Good stuff, good stuff...
+fafaffu2 Thanks!
I wonder what your opinion is on Epictetus's view of anxiety is and whether you employ his teachings in your personal philosophy.
I find the Stoics quite useful. I use their insights in both my own life, and in my philosophical counseling and executive coaching practices
I never understood why Stoicism is generally associated with generally Mark Aurelius. For me Epictetus is more for fundamental, theoretic understanding, while Aurelius is the best practitioner. Seneca is somewhere in between.
It isn't generally associated with just Marcus, but equally with Seneca and Epictetus
Great video!
Thanks!
Thank you
You're welcome!
I am running later to uplift my spirit. Thanks for sharing
You're welcome!
This sucks! What an ugly tie….Just kidding. Great explanation again Dr. Sadler.
What Book are you quoting from? Thank you and I subscribed.
Epictetus' Discourses
thanks
There's always the drug alternative to fix anxiety.
But personally, I've never tried them.
I like this approach of rationalizing the fear away, but it doesn't work very well. It's ironic that the faculty that is being used to rationalize away anxiety is the cause if the anxiety. The more you think about how you're doing or will do (present and future events) the worse you feel.
Maybe the solution isn't in thinking why you shouldn't be scared, but of character and having a strong will and mindset.
+Seth Perry Well, clearly you haven't found bits of the Stoic approach useful (there's a big difference between using little isolated parts of it, and working through the broader perspective). What Epictetus is advising is far from simply "rationalizing the fear away".
Other people have found it very useful. What this points towards is that there's multiple workable approaches to anxiety, as there are to most complex matters in life.
+Gregory B. Sadler
I was speaking of my personal experience, the method which you talk about in this particular video isn't useful to me - unfortunately.
And you are correct, I haven't studied a more broad perspective of stoicism, and given the high amount of content in your channel - as of recent- that deals with stoicism; I doubt I'll be an expert of it anytime soon. Nevertheless, I highly value this philosophical method, so I'll try to learn more about it by watching your videos and doing some reading of my own. And I hope it is as you imply: I will find peace once I expand my knowledge on this subject, conversely, of just focusing on bits of it.
I think I have to agree.
I really like the stoic philosophy tho and I'm sure it can be beneficial for anxiety.
You can rationalize all you want but when the anxiety hits you, analyzing/logic won't help.
It's easy going into a situation thinking "I don't really care what the crowd/person think, it doesn't really matter anyway". But then it strikes you anyway and now what? Embrace it?
Either unconsciously following a belief system in that moment or just because of human psyche and history maybe it's just ingrained in our DNA to fear rejection?
Maybe an alternative approach is to eliminate self-doubt, do your best, have a clear reason and not be too attached to the outcome (If I mess up, I mess up)? This way you're putting the focus on you and being true to yourself, doing your thing instead of trying to ignore the crowd's reaction?
Does this make sense?
zoorrken Once anxiety hits, depending on the severity, it can be really hard to stop. Personally and if it's very intense, I just wait for it to pass. However, once it's over I try to understand what happened and how to prevent it.
"Doing your thing instead of trying to ignore the crowd's reaction" I think that's the whole point, If you stay true to what you want to do and how you want to do it (i.e. you "do your thing"), if you can understand and internalize that that is what ultimately matters because you can't have absolute control over what others will think of you, then you can break free and the crowd won't seem as important.
The tendency to define ourselves through the eyes of others instead of following our rules and values can be a source of anxiety.