If that's the case why do they continue racing? Businesses are in the business to make money and not to continually lose money. What Gordon said is BS!
@@lowcruisin7637 Drivers make their real money from endorsements and the sponsors not from racing. They don't have the multi- million dollar contracts like the NFL, NBA, and MLB!
@747rotate for the love of the game. Go ask Rick or Richard. I have. They got money to throw away and they love racing. If it wasn't cars I bet they'd own Horses.
Rick Mast and Larry Mac both missed several things right off the bat. Rick Hendrick said he signed the contract because he was tired. Jeff Gordon has said HMS has not broken even in years. Richard Childress said he doesn’t like the terms that he felt he had no choice but to sign the contract because of his employees. Stewart Hass racing is shutting its doors at the end of the season. Dale Jr hasn’t really said anything but he also has not made the jump into Cup because it is the return on investment isn’t there. Additionally what sort of fair and equatable agreement has ever only given the signee’s 6 hours or less to review the contract and with an ultimatum on the contract signature. The charter contract as dictated by NASCAR absolutely stinks and is just another in along list things that the France family has strong armed teams/drivers with. Personally I hope NASCAR loses this impending lawsuit for the good of the sport
Taking things said by Rick Hendrick out of context does not necessarily turn a wrong into a right and visa versa. Stewart Haas closed down for completely different reasons and can't be used as an example. Which is an issue because of misinformation and wrongful interpretations.
You missed an important detail. That contract that needed to be signed in 6 hours was not new lol. The teams had already read through that shit. Nascar just said now you have to sign it. It wasn't something Nascar just typed up that night.
@racegrubb2152 the new Charter deal could have been signed a week later and it would not have made any difference. Such are things that have been hyped up and manipulated for their own propaganda purposes 🤔
IF NASCAR loses the lawsuit they probably are not going to play nice. They could literally pull the plug anytime they want. It's their business. They own it.
NASCAR went from Days of Thunder to Days of our Lives, engineered drama and publicity stunts., lost me as a consumer.,, so I took my $$ back to the dirt track, where drivers actually race to Win…
Kenny, your content this season has been fantastic. If it wasn’t for you, Dale Jr and Rick Mast the fans wouldn’t have a voice. NASCAR fans are sick and tired of not being heard.
I'm sure it took longer than six hours for nascar to write up 100 pages of an agreement so why should they expect the owners to read through it and agree to sign it in six hours?
That is an argument that Denny has made that has been disputed by others who said the teams had two weeks to review the final contract. Also, that logic doesn’t hold water…does anyone believe that Hendrick’s and Penske’s top class legal teams would agree to sign off on something with a 6 hour review period? Nope.
Talladega was a joke. NASCAR needs to hire a 3rd party to officiate by the rule book. This is one of the only sports where the owners are the officials. No more engineered drama or rule changes during a race.
I've been watching NASCAR since the mid 70's. I hardly recognize it today. They make it so that the car can't drive when they get flats and if the wrecker touches them they're finished, is crazy. Change from a red to yellow so guys can work on the cars while there is still cars that need to be cleared from the track and oh, yes they tell the pace car not to move. What kind of Dog and Pony show is this? I used to watch NASCAR religiously, now not so much. Hopefully they will figure it out.
@bradrock7731 we haven't seen a driver be multiple laps ahead of 2nd since the 80's, or the winner lap the field since '94, I don't really think that will be an issue racing was more competitive back in the gen 4 era.
It's the France model! It's a dictatorship! You said it yourself. Independent contractors. This is where the rubber meets the road! The owners need to wake up!
The France family has always been as crooked as a barrel of fish hooks. Hendrick, Childress, and the other ones that signed need wake up and grow a pair. Remember also that Penske is a business partner of the France family too.
Actually it isn't a dictatorship, that implies a system that once was public haven been taken over and being run by a singular entity. NASCAR has always, always been a privately run company, it has always been that way. The owners don't need to wake up, or change NASCAR, they need to start their own organization. But they can't. Because the owners will never be able to play nicely with each other, each owner will want to do things "their" way to "their" own benefit. The only way they can all co-exist and compete against each other, is for none of them to be in charge, for none of them to have any say so. Each of the owners are more than capable financially of starting their own league, and generating much more profits for themselves, and no question at all if they stick together. But it would take all of them cooperating together to make it happen, and cooperating with each other is out of the question. so decade after decade goes by, and no one can figure it out and no one has been able to break away and start a new league.
I have been a Big Larry McReynolds fan for years but after his endorsement and support for the near monopoly that is NASCAR.... I'm DONE! I hope 23Xl prevails in their justifiable Antitrust lawsuit.
I'm with you on that 💯 !!! But Larry Mc can't go against Nascar on XM Because he works for Nascar !!! Nascar Owen, s XM radio so Larry doesn't want to lose his job !!!!
one of the problems with the world is that so many cannot tolerate or work with someone who has a different t viewpoint than them. this is case in point
Well NASCAR only cares about TV money, they got a lot out of the TV deal, but what happens when even more fans quit watching and no TV networks want to pay to broadcast it!?
@@cats362 Of course it’s about money. NASCAR, that was my point about the new car. I used to be anyone could build a Cup car and take to the track and NASCAR didn’t make any money from you building that car. Today you can still build a Cup car but you have to buy the approved pieces to build it. And those approved pieces are make by people that pay NASCAR for a licensing agreement. So now NASCAR who gets the majority of the TV money and owns or is part owner of most the tracks, gets money for every car the owners assemble. NASCAR is too greedy and should share more of the TV money with the teams.
From what I read in a racing magazine back in the 80's, the late Rex Robbins, who owned the ASA series back then came close to filing an anti-trust suit against NASCAR more than once.
And that's when ASA was actually a legit series, any series that had Dick Trickle and Mark Martin was worth it, from what I've seen and older fans I've talked to the ASA cars were vastly superior to NASCAR back then, but after the 80's ASA was a feeder series.
@@PaperBanjo64 And back in those days ASA (so NASCAR thought) was a threat to them. So was Bob Harmon's AllPro Super Series. The thing about it was ASA and AllPro actually cooperated with each other and actually co-sanctioned some races.
It is unfair to have 36 teams GUARANTEED a spot in a race because they PAID FOR IT. That only leaves 4 spots open to complete the field. 4 spots. What happened to just show up and QUALIFY for your position ? After the 36 Guaranteed spots, if there are 10 teams that actually qualify BETTER than the slower of the 36 , that means that 6 cars that "Should" be IN the race simply are not. This is NOT good for bringing in new teams or fans. Do AWAY with Charters, and do away with DVP, and why not go back to the teams BUILDING their OWN CARS ?
@@diesel5460 No. Charters are simply a form of purchasing a spot in the race. Nothing more, nothing less. There are PLENTY of drivers and teams who would and could run in NASCAR if it weren't for the "System" that NASCAR has in place now. If the charter system works so well then WHY does it take a 20 MILLION DOLLAR buy in ? Most race teams won't make that much money in 10 years.
I'm glad. 2311 is doing this. NASCAR's got too big for their britches. They don't care about their drivers. They don't care about the product they put out cuz we do not like this product. The old school fans. Finally, somebody's got the balls to stand up to them like Dale Earnhardt senior had years ago. Instead of just talking NASCAR talking points
Think what you want When Bill France or France Jr. Told Earnhardt shut his Trap he shut his Trap point Blank ! Cause NASCAR Makes Stars and NASCAR taketh Away from the Stars whe he falls outta Line .Denny Bad Mouth NASCAR one too Many Times until they had Enough Denny is no Billionaire and Like a lot of Legendary Drivers in NASCAR over the Years That went Broke after retiring trying to Run a Race Team He cou;d end up the same way !!!! Jordan and his Lawyers have a Ton more money than Denny but I guarantee you Denny has way More money Invested in that team and those operations and Jordan is more Window dressing by Name being used to bring in Money than as invested into it with Money and these cases takes Years !! some these cases are over 10 years old just with the NBA still .. Drawn out for years NASCAR Wins still Dennys a Puppy in a Big Dogs Pile of Shit he just stepped in
Hi Charlie and Rick, enjoy listening to both talking about NASCAR. One thing I will say, NASCAR doesn’t want this to go to court. If it goes to court, they will be forced to open their book, with could be damaging to them. Thanks guys.
What would happen if on a Friday night all the teams walked into the NASCAR trailer and said we are not racing this weekend or next until this Character contract is adjusted and amicable.
1969. The Grand National drivers tried to boycott Talladega due to unsafe tire issues. "Big Bill" France brought in the Sportsman (later Busch...now Xfinity) teams and ran the race with scabs. It's the France business model.
I’m done with anything NASCAR. I’ve been done since 2000 ? The new cars SUCK, the new owners are whiners, nascar management operates like NAZIS . I hate it all now , nascar ruined a great sport .😢
I don't follow NASCRAP. Haven't since 2005. I will, however, watch RUclips videos shitting all over NAPCAR. This anti-trust lawsuit is a slam dunk. And CRAPCAR loses.
There shouldn't be one owner that's pissed off at Michael and Denny for bringing this lawsuit forward. It's OK if the front office types of NASCAR are pissed - we wouldn't expect anything different. But the team owners should be circling the wagons because they have the power in this with John Q Public firmly on their side. Personally I'm hoping NASCAR brass wake up and start settlement talks while everyone's in the talking mood. Instead of letting this fester. It's a new day, that we do know. And either NASCAR starts the process or the courts will, would be my bet.
@@chuxtuff Unless the charters get thrown out (NASCAR might consider that rather than have to open their books) those owners signed away their rights to sue or probably even speak ill of NASCAR when they signed those papers.. They will however, hover in the background cheering Denny and Jordon on.
@@karenkoe7096 I agree kinda...Wouldn't that be continuing the crime?? They could appoint a overseer who supervises the switch over to a different system or one that makes sure NASCAR is doing what they're supposed to after a court ruling. I'm no lawyer but fair is fair and this current setup isn't fair to anyone other then the founding family arguably of course. Anyway change is coming to NASCAR whether they want it or not...I think. At least I'd rather be on Denny and Jordan's side of the fence then NASCARs.
It is very difficult for the average American who 68% live paycheck to paycheck to feel sorry for a group of billionaire, mega millionaire team owners and multi millionaire drivers whining and crying they are being discriminated against by the billionaire France family. As to why driver salaries are declining one has to look no further than the empty seats in the grandstands and declining tv ratings!
Having navigated union contract negotiations myself, it was my philosophy that a negotiator should be working to solve the labor concerns, without aiming so high that you obsolete your workforce. I had a lot of wins in contracts, and I also ate some crow. With a product like NASCAR, you are in a different set of circumstances because you really can't replace your workforce. Your labor constituents are comprised of grass roots racers that work their way into developmental programs and enter the NASCAR system. Your athletes will always be aiming for the next rung in the ladder for more exposure, more money, and more notoriety. As long as NASCAR can provide that, you will always have young drivers in the pipeline. However, what is an absolute X factor that doesn't really apply to my experience is, what happens to a small constituency that decides to rock the boat outside of the bargaining unit? A Rick Hendrick, Rodger Penske, Jack Roush, or Richard Childress can sit back and let someone else do the work. What are the ramifications if these "rogue teams" fail? Well, those teams could fail moving forward to the extent that maybe they no longer exist. Or perhaps these teams set precedent that makes it harder for the negotiating unit in the future? Maybe these teams gain a huge win? Rick, Rodger, Jack, and Richard would never need to open their mouths. It seems to me that this is nothing but a good thing for the majority of teams, because if this lawsuit fails the ramifications will more than likely affect those involved with the suit. Those teams will be the sacrificial lamb so to speak. I think if any damage is done by this lawsuit, the "power teams" can deny involvement, and explain it away future negotiations. Again, the only caveat would be if anything that is precedent setting comes to light, but precedent may be in favor of the teams. It will be very interesting to see where this goes.
What's good for the France family isn't necessarily good for the sport. What's good for the sport isn't necessarily good for the teams or the tracks. And what's good for NASCAR isn't necessarily good for the viewers.
UFC fighters are also independent contractors and they just won a similar lawsuit, though they only were awarded 375 million. The only thing that saved the UFC from a larger penalty was they actually have some competition now. I would have to imagine the "scary" part of this for NASCAR is discovery and all the internal documents, emails, etc they will have to turnover that will likely also be available to the public. Could be embarrassing. How much is it worth to NASCAR to avoid that? I don't know
Minor correction, it will be 1-2 years to make it to trial, if it goes that far. You can add another year for appeals. More depending on how far up the ladder a party wants to appeal.
When you have to paint the grandstand to look like they are full, there is a big problem. NASCAR is a monopoly. When teams are not making a return on their investment, it time for NASCAR to show transparency.
I'm glad Rick stated about popularity of the sport. I feel the sport is down right now and something that shakes the foundation of the sport could really do damage going forward.
It’s good to hear some people with common sense that are neutral talk about the situation. All the owners said it the best they are tired. Jeff Gordon said they don’t profit so what the hell is going on NASCAR is a mafia.
I see Nascar voiding the charter agreements they "forced" the teams to sign and offer a new charter agreement that will be fair to everyone. Nascar doesn't want their financial records to go public and this lawsuit could make this happen. So hopefully Nascar will do the right thing to keep this lawsuit from going forward.....
@@PaperBanjo64 exactly. there needs to be some level of price control. it was designed to be something teams could sell to have something tangible when leaving the sport not something for teams to profit off of.
Drivers and teams should wake up. Look what happened to Monster Jam. Feld purchased all of Monster Jam. They own the trucks, they own the likenesses of the truck, they pay the mechanics, they pay the drivers. NASCAR has the funds to make this happen.
Is NASCAR a monopoly? I don’t know. But they do own NASCAR. They do own IMSA. They do own a lot of tracks in America. So if you wanted to race closed cockpit cars in America professionally, is it possible without giving the France family money? If you can’t, that might say something about how much monopoly they have
I think the big picture is much more complicated. The courts will decide. Will probably take months, if not years, to wind its way through the various courts.
It’s not that the owners don’t have the “Balls”, they don’t have the $ to take it on, the reason that is, is because NASCR has them not making money, NASCAR doesn’t want the owners to make enough money to take them on! NASCAR has given the owners no choice but to go on! Business models like this go on every day in every aspect of business!
Yeah, but the product sucks. They are all richer than I will ever be, so I don’t care which millionaire gets more and which millionaire loses some. I JUST WANT SOME GOOD RACING AGAIN!
The biggest problem I see here is the Charter system as it stands. 9 of the original 15 failed and are gone now. That’s terrible for the sport. Terrible for teams and drivers. That’s a failure rate that’s unsustainable. Change has to happen. Now is the time. My prediction NASCAR and the France family will delay this as long as possible. Eventually both parties will settle as NASCAR will cave in a little at the very last second in order to save face. Bottom line is in court the France family doesn’t want the world seeing there dirty laundry and all the money they made while 9 charter teams failed.
Childress said he had less than 6 hours to review and sign the new agreement. He said he ad to do it. These guys want to race but they are not happy. If it were not for Jordan's money, the lawsuit wouldn't happen. 65% of money goes to the track owner and NASCAR owns many of the tracks.
Great channel! I’ve drifted away form NASCAR for the reasons others have stated. While destroying $10+ million in cars on Sunday me be entertainment for some fans, it’s not sustainable for the Owners. Look at the some of the other series including Australia, and European races and they are much more entertaining to watch and rules are enforced on the spot and driving is more enjoyable to watch. Endurance races at Nurburgring are great to watch with multiple classes of cars running at the same time. Imagine trucks, Xfinity, and Cup running all at the same time!
Im 56yrs old and ive watched nascar my entire life. I think its a good thing what 23xi and frontrow are doing. Nascar needs change and hopefully they'll get more transparency after all this is over. Promoters shouldnt get most of the money period!
This is why Fanatech GT , Imsa, F1, and Skip Barber are shoveling market share away from Nascar like a bucket wheel excavator. The big one on sunday, and how it played out is a WORST CASE scenario.
My family and many others built this sport and Nascar really should find some gratitude. Back to basics. France Taj Mahal here in Daytona is evidence. Frances need to start rewarding those who got them there. All of us that built the racing model, do not need nascar to create stunts to promote our sport. Good grassroots racing built this sport and will sustain this sport, with or without a legion like nascar. competitive spirit cannot be overridden.
Nobody is pointing out the fact that over the last 20 years. Nascar has been doing everything, to be just like other sports. Including other motorsports. Everything is ok until money and control come into to play. Or someone new to the sport has a different idea about how to go about things. Then its nascar is not like other sports. Lovevthe show Rick!!! Nascar was a way of life, I listen to more podcast than watching a race
By signing that contract on that Friday night they agreed not to sue NASCAR over antitrust issues so NASCAR knows dam good and well what they've done to bring this all forward. And imo it's about time!!!!
It’s over. Look at the few people in the stands, viewership way down . Maybe if all the drivers got together and pushed the 23 car to the starting line things would be better- oh yeah they already did that.
Kenny Wallace said it best. He said he's seen this movie before and it doesn't play out well. NASCAR never looses an appeal as far as i know. NASCAR has some of the best attorneys around and has the money to appeal anything. Doesn't matter to me if they are dictator's because who else is going to compete with them... NOBODY!
“It’s the way we’ve always done it” is an old way of thinking! Revenue sharing needs to happen across the board! Without the teams/drivers, there is no NASCAR!
Why does Rick mast give a fuck about when they act on it?? I feel like all of the older drivers and crew chiefs are just defending nascars bs, which I get …. But fuck, I love Larry McReynolds like the next man, but respectfully Larry macs a damn crew chief from 1985 ( best nascar racing ever ) BUT Mac don’t own a team, never has. So what weight he holds I’m not sure , most owners love it And it always some ego shit with older men Larry Mac with the infamous words “ how dare you come in to our sport “ SHUDDDDDDUPPPPPPPPP
The funny part is the people who bitch about NASCAR changing the sport and ruining it are on NASCAR's side the ones who made 20 years of unnecessary changes, like Darrell Waltrip said if it ain't broke we'll work on it until it is! And that's exactly what NASCAR did! I feel 2010 was the last year of NASCAR being mainstream, after that it completely fell off, and it was already declining by that point to begin with.
Since the last charter agreement how many teams are still left. I think 4 and all of them have huge companies backing there racing hobby so they don’t rely on NASCAR to survive the rest of them are gone. Something has to change so the teams can actually have a business model that they can maybe actually make a profit. NASCAR makes millions upon millions of dollars of profit each year so I’m sure something can change to even things up a bit cause it’s sad that the Petty name still isn’t in the sport on the owner side. The King slowly had to sell his team away. It’s so flawed. I hope 23XI and Front Row affect real change to the sport and good on them for having the BALLS to stand up and do it. I’m not a Hamlin driver fan but a huge Hamlin owner fan. Much respect.
I remember when INDY CAR had issues and USAC and the IRL went 1 way and CART went out on their own only to see no one be profitable and come back together as INDYCAR. Some or most of the team owners watched that exercise and are aware of how it went down. that being said 30 years later the media, money and public opinion are very different.
For the last few years NASCAR has been wanting to be like ball sports, play offs, stage breaks and everything else. Now they don’t want to be like them all of a sudden.
23XI and FRM put their themselves in a fight against the sanctioning body. Its David vs Goliath in the courts. My concern as a fan is nascar heading to the wrong direction? Depends on who you ask. In my opinion yes.
Hendrick, Penske and Gibbs can be used as examples all Larry Mac wants but the fact is their wealth is highly based on assets associated with the automotive industry, including racing. MJ and the other owner have billions outside of the automotive world. Yes there is a big difference. The car world is hurting right now. Fixed assets can’t be easily cashed out. That’s why the others signed and 23/11 and front row didn’t. Because those two owners have the most diversified wealth to fight it.
Just cause the team that’s only been here for 4 years isn’t willing to accept bullshit, doesn’t make their argument any less valid. Open up those books nascar.
Go ask your employer, if they are a private company, to open up their books and show you how much they make, better yet demand that. See if you still have a job. Nascar is not a public traded company. They don't have to open their books. Drivers, teams, owners are not entitled to see their books. Don't feel bad more multi million, billion team owners and Nascar either. How many cup teams have you seen file bankruptcy. Cup teams, not Xfinity. 10:21
@@racegrubb2152 Do you think that lawyer would have done all this and they pay all that money if thats all that was required at this magnitude of a sport? "I'ts a private family owned company" thats such a surface level point i think.
@ScottyMac165 that aged well. 23ll just got denied by a judge for Nascar to open their books to 2311 and show them their finances. Denied!!! Lol. Told ya
NASCAR picked the timing! (sign now or else). So when these two teams didn't sign, they needed to file the lawsuit to guarantee they could continue racing. Otherwise, NASCAR could have kicked them out. That is what NASCAR was threatening to do!
To a fan the outcome of this lawsuit really is irrelevant. The reason fans are on the team's side is all of the negative changes NASCAR has implemented and they don't listen to the teams or the fans. NASCAR left their racing product. They took a racing promotion and destroyed it with a failure of a competitive car. This car has not only took racing out of it but it also allowed for less talented drivers to drive. Both makes a boring product. Than add on the failure of a playoff platform and your left here with a failing business. Teams and NASCAR are crumbling and now they are fighting for money to survive.
I disagree with one point, The teams that signed have a deal they have to live with their is a contract they agreed to. The majority agreed to what a 7 year deal? Hendrick, Gibbs, RCR, RFK, Spire, Rick Ware, Hass , Kaulig has a deal they signed. Why would they get more? They already signed a contract. This lawsuit is all about 23/XI and Front Row.. those two teams never accepted the deal. This is where it’s going to get sticky if The two win they will be getting more than the majority. Why would NASCAR give any of the others the same deal?
Because if 23/11 wins,which they would if it went to court, which it won't, it will prove that NASCAR forced teams to sign under duress . That would include everyone.
U right them guys put there life on the line every time they strap in the car no nascar need to give more to teams and drivers they have to find sponsorship not nascar the team have to do all the work to make it work the teams should b rewarded more to pay employees better
Nascar gross 1.8 Billion, Profit 140 million give or take. The teams everyone goes to see and the tracks make how much? I do also remember a time when a racer was happy to pay the bills and break even. Now it's a 20 million dollar a season operation and no longer a rented pick up pulling a trailer. The teams themselves have made it more expensive trying to win at all costs and outspend each other, no?
Rick is correct.Nascar is a sanctioning body. Everyone chooses to participate in the series at their own risk and their own expense.The reward is the championship that you seek
He who’s been doing racing for 60 years, Roger Penske, is failing Indy Car significantly. My opinion, the only positives in Indy Car are the 500 and Long Beach. This lawsuit will make NASCAR better.
NASCAR made Larry Mac and of course that's where his allegiance is. This lawsuit is gonna blow up things big-time. Time will tell if it's for the better...
If you're truly an independent contractor, then why does NASCAR want control of and ownership your intellectual property and likeness? If there aren't any antitrust issues on NASCAR's part, then why did NASCAR put in the agreement, "You cannot sue us for antitrust infringements." ?
HOW is it reasonable that NASCAR gets BILLIONS in TV and advertising profits, WITH NO REVENUE SHARING with the teams, AND demands tens of millions from the teams to participate? The charters are pure extortion.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
When Jeff Gordon said that Hendrick motorsports has not turned a profit for a long time that pretty much sums it up
If that's the case why do they continue racing? Businesses are in the business to make money and not to continually lose money. What Gordon said is BS!
@cervantesfamily3937 It seems all of the drivers got rich
@@lowcruisin7637 Drivers make their real money from endorsements and the sponsors not from racing. They don't have the multi- million dollar contracts like the NFL, NBA, and MLB!
@747rotate for the love of the game. Go ask Rick or Richard. I have. They got money to throw away and they love racing. If it wasn't cars I bet they'd own Horses.
@@747rotate theres something called passion clearly you do not have any of that! Otherwise you would have better things to do in life!
Another reason there should have NEVER started charters.
Let the fastest 42 cars run the race .
I like that ! Charter crap is a bunch of dodo to get NASCAR paid!
Agreed! Back to the old days.
Rick Mast and Larry Mac both missed several things right off the bat. Rick Hendrick said he signed the contract because he was tired. Jeff Gordon has said HMS has not broken even in years. Richard Childress said he doesn’t like the terms that he felt he had no choice but to sign the contract because of his employees. Stewart Hass racing is shutting its doors at the end of the season. Dale Jr hasn’t really said anything but he also has not made the jump into Cup because it is the return on investment isn’t there.
Additionally what sort of fair and equatable agreement has ever only given the signee’s 6 hours or less to review the contract and with an ultimatum on the contract signature. The charter contract as dictated by NASCAR absolutely stinks and is just another in along list things that the France family has strong armed teams/drivers with. Personally I hope NASCAR loses this impending lawsuit for the good of the sport
Taking things said by Rick Hendrick out of context does not necessarily turn a wrong into a right and visa versa. Stewart Haas closed down for completely different reasons and can't be used as an example. Which is an issue because of misinformation and wrongful interpretations.
I think its gonna be thrown out, NASCAR will find a judge in North Carolina and it'll be thrown out.
You missed an important detail. That contract that needed to be signed in 6 hours was not new lol. The teams had already read through that shit. Nascar just said now you have to sign it. It wasn't something Nascar just typed up that night.
@racegrubb2152 the new Charter deal could have been signed a week later and it would not have made any difference. Such are things that have been hyped up and manipulated for their own propaganda purposes 🤔
IF NASCAR loses the lawsuit they probably are not going to play nice. They could literally pull the plug anytime they want. It's their business. They own it.
NASCAR went from Days of Thunder to Days of our Lives, engineered drama and publicity stunts., lost me as a consumer.,, so I took my $$ back to the dirt track, where drivers actually race to Win…
And most Saturday night short track drivers don't mind getting dirty & turning a wrench either. I like that.
A lot of those dirt drivers make as much as Cup drivers.
@@Neil-f8h They have stolen a page right out of the WWE and WWF hand book!!
@@bradrock7731or getting a fat lip or busted knuckle after a good competitive race😂
Well said.
Kenny, your content this season has been fantastic. If it wasn’t for you, Dale Jr and Rick Mast the fans wouldn’t have a voice. NASCAR fans are sick and tired of not being heard.
The leadership of NASCAR has been a dumpster fire since Bill France Jr. passed away.
Since the 1990s. Maybe a little earlier.
Along with it came a France family political switch from Rep to Dem it seems. In my opinion of course.
I'm sure it took longer than six hours for nascar to write up 100 pages of an agreement so why should they expect the owners to read through it and agree to sign it in six hours?
That is an argument that Denny has made that has been disputed by others who said the teams had two weeks to review the final contract. Also, that logic doesn’t hold water…does anyone believe that Hendrick’s and Penske’s top class legal teams would agree to sign off on something with a 6 hour review period? Nope.
I heard it was more like 150 pages.
Talladega was a joke. NASCAR needs to hire a 3rd party to officiate by the rule book. This is one of the only sports where the owners are the officials. No more engineered drama or rule changes during a race.
I've been watching NASCAR since the mid 70's. I hardly recognize it today. They make it so that the car can't drive when they get flats and if the wrecker touches them they're finished, is crazy. Change from a red to yellow so guys can work on the cars while there is still cars that need to be cleared from the track and oh, yes they tell the pace car not to move. What kind of Dog and Pony show is this? I used to watch NASCAR religiously, now not so much. Hopefully they will figure it out.
@@Marty54GMC Remember when they used to race from start to finish? Like EVERY OTHER form of racing?
I don't care if the leader is five laps ahead.
Carl Edwards I'm sure seconds that motion!!!
@bradrock7731 we haven't seen a driver be multiple laps ahead of 2nd since the 80's, or the winner lap the field since '94, I don't really think that will be an issue racing was more competitive back in the gen 4 era.
Maybe you haven't noticed that every small track promoter hires their own officials. You race by their rules. Scamcar does the same thing
It's the France model! It's a dictatorship! You said it yourself. Independent contractors. This is where the rubber meets the road! The owners need to wake up!
they aren't independent contractors anymore once there's a charter system.
@@lchbbq Tell that to Rick Mast!
The France family has always been as crooked as a barrel of fish hooks. Hendrick, Childress, and the other ones that signed need wake up and grow a pair. Remember also that Penske is a business partner of the France family too.
@@lchbbq yes they still are. the charter system means nothing but a "guaranteed spot to start"
Actually it isn't a dictatorship, that implies a system that once was public haven been taken over and being run by a singular entity. NASCAR has always, always been a privately run company, it has always been that way. The owners don't need to wake up, or change NASCAR, they need to start their own organization. But they can't. Because the owners will never be able to play nicely with each other, each owner will want to do things "their" way to "their" own benefit. The only way they can all co-exist and compete against each other, is for none of them to be in charge, for none of them to have any say so. Each of the owners are more than capable financially of starting their own league, and generating much more profits for themselves, and no question at all if they stick together. But it would take all of them cooperating together to make it happen, and cooperating with each other is out of the question. so decade after decade goes by, and no one can figure it out and no one has been able to break away and start a new league.
When you see how much money NASCAR is making you will under stand .
That’s why NASCAR isn’t speaking. When the books get opened up everyone will see how much the teams are getting screwed.
I have been a Big Larry McReynolds fan for years but after his endorsement and support for the near monopoly that is NASCAR.... I'm DONE!
I hope 23Xl prevails in their justifiable Antitrust lawsuit.
I'm with you on that 💯 !!! But Larry Mc can't go against Nascar on XM Because he works for Nascar !!! Nascar Owen, s XM radio so Larry doesn't want to lose his job !!!!
Ryan McGee also.
@@davidburchfield2720 liberty media owns XM not NASCAR. Simply google search.
one of the problems with the world is that so many cannot tolerate or work with someone who has a different t viewpoint than them. this is case in point
100% Larry Mac has missed the point on this thing completely.
Nascar needs a good lawsuit Kenny
If I were Nascar or a car owner, I'd be way more worried about the fan base fleeing the sport because of lack of entertainment!!
Well NASCAR only cares about TV money, they got a lot out of the TV deal, but what happens when even more fans quit watching and no TV networks want to pay to broadcast it!?
Motorsport entertainment is exactly what it has become. It's no longer about competition, it's a soap opera!
I’m on 23XI’s side. The last straw for me was the new car. NASCAR makes money from every new car being built. The France’s are too greedy.
you do realize their only fighting for more money for their pockets, not the cars, or pricing. hey win it dont make them change the car
@@cats362 Of course it’s about money. NASCAR, that was my point about the new car. I used to be anyone could build a Cup car and take to the track and NASCAR didn’t make any money from you building that car. Today you can still build a Cup car but you have to buy the approved pieces to build it. And those approved pieces are make by people that pay NASCAR for a licensing agreement. So now NASCAR who gets the majority of the TV money and owns or is part owner of most the tracks, gets money for every car the owners assemble. NASCAR is too greedy and should share more of the TV money with the teams.
From what I read in a racing magazine back in the 80's, the late Rex Robbins, who owned the ASA series back then came close to filing an anti-trust suit against NASCAR more than once.
And that's when ASA was actually a legit series, any series that had Dick Trickle and Mark Martin was worth it, from what I've seen and older fans I've talked to the ASA cars were vastly superior to NASCAR back then, but after the 80's ASA was a feeder series.
@@PaperBanjo64 And back in those days ASA (so NASCAR thought) was a threat to them. So was Bob Harmon's AllPro Super Series. The thing about it was ASA and AllPro actually cooperated with each other and actually co-sanctioned some races.
It is unfair to have 36 teams GUARANTEED a spot in a race because they PAID FOR IT. That only leaves 4 spots open to complete the field. 4 spots. What happened to just show up and QUALIFY for your position ? After the 36 Guaranteed spots, if there are 10 teams that actually qualify BETTER than the slower of the 36 , that means that 6 cars that "Should" be IN the race simply are not. This is NOT good for bringing in new teams or fans. Do AWAY with Charters, and do away with DVP, and why not go back to the teams BUILDING their OWN CARS ?
🎯
U have to have charters in this day an age u would not have motor racing as it is today with out them .
Do the teams have to buy their uniforms from nascar
@@C33Chevy Team funded uniforms.
@@diesel5460 No. Charters are simply a form of purchasing a spot in the race. Nothing more, nothing less. There are PLENTY of drivers and teams who would and could run in NASCAR if it weren't for the "System" that NASCAR has in place now. If the charter system works so well then WHY does it take a 20 MILLION DOLLAR buy in ? Most race teams won't make that much money in 10 years.
I'm glad. 2311 is doing this. NASCAR's got too big for their britches. They don't care about their drivers. They don't care about the product they put out cuz we do not like this product. The old school fans. Finally, somebody's got the balls to stand up to them like Dale Earnhardt senior had years ago. Instead of just talking NASCAR talking points
Think what you want When Bill France or France Jr. Told Earnhardt shut his Trap he shut his Trap point Blank ! Cause NASCAR Makes Stars and NASCAR taketh Away from the Stars whe he falls outta Line .Denny Bad Mouth NASCAR one too Many Times until they had Enough Denny is no Billionaire and Like a lot of Legendary Drivers in NASCAR over the Years That went Broke after retiring trying to Run a Race Team He cou;d end up the same way !!!! Jordan and his Lawyers have a Ton more money than Denny but I guarantee you Denny has way More money Invested in that team and those operations and Jordan is more Window dressing by Name being used to bring in Money than as invested into it with Money and these cases takes Years !! some these cases are over 10 years old just with the NBA still .. Drawn out for years NASCAR Wins still Dennys a Puppy in a Big Dogs Pile of Shit he just stepped in
The old school fans left a long time ago,when NASCAR sold its soul to DEI and Corporate America,so you youngsters can do whatever you want with it…
2311 and Hamlin is all for him. Most opiniated for him self
Hi Charlie and Rick, enjoy listening to both talking about NASCAR. One thing I will say, NASCAR doesn’t want this to go to court. If it goes to court, they will be forced to open their book, with could be damaging to them. Thanks guys.
What would happen if on a Friday night all the teams walked into the NASCAR trailer and said we are not racing this weekend or next until this Character contract is adjusted and amicable.
1969. The Grand National drivers tried to boycott Talladega due to unsafe tire issues. "Big Bill" France brought in the Sportsman (later Busch...now Xfinity) teams and ran the race with scabs.
It's the France business model.
They have sponsor obligations.....
I’m done with anything NASCAR. I’ve been done since 2000 ? The new cars SUCK, the new owners are whiners, nascar management operates like NAZIS . I hate it all now , nascar ruined a great sport .😢
If you're done then why are you still here ?
@kennywallace36 🎉I found one! “I’m done with NASCAR! Blah blah blah” 😂
But you still know all this info. Girl you are still watching.
I don't follow NASCRAP. Haven't since 2005. I will, however, watch RUclips videos shitting all over NAPCAR. This anti-trust lawsuit is a slam dunk. And CRAPCAR loses.
@legrandechene3734 essentially when Earnhardt passed away he stopped watching.
I have not heard one owner say I was happy with the deal.
Sometimes it takes an outsider to shake things up. Ultimately, if nascar loses, the fans win so I'm rooting for Mike and Denny to win the lawsuit
Only people winning are them.
Nascar wanted a rich black guy in the sport and they got it, be careful what you wish for
There shouldn't be one owner that's pissed off at Michael and Denny for bringing this lawsuit forward. It's OK if the front office types of NASCAR are pissed - we wouldn't expect anything different. But the team owners should be circling the wagons because they have the power in this with John Q Public firmly on their side. Personally I'm hoping NASCAR brass wake up and start settlement talks while everyone's in the talking mood. Instead of letting this fester. It's a new day, that we do know. And either NASCAR starts the process or the courts will, would be my bet.
@@chuxtuff Unless the charters get thrown out (NASCAR might consider that rather than have to open their books) those owners signed away their rights to sue or probably even speak ill of NASCAR when they signed those papers.. They will however, hover in the background cheering Denny and Jordon on.
@@karenkoe7096 I agree kinda...Wouldn't that be continuing the crime?? They could appoint a overseer who supervises the switch over to a different system or one that makes sure NASCAR is doing what they're supposed to after a court ruling. I'm no lawyer but fair is fair and this current setup isn't fair to anyone other then the founding family arguably of course. Anyway change is coming to NASCAR whether they want it or not...I think. At least I'd rather be on Denny and Jordan's side of the fence then NASCARs.
NASCAR owns the business, the teams are not required to race.
1:15 and then this past weekend at Talladega, Richard Childress confirmed this.
It is very difficult for the average American who 68% live paycheck to paycheck to feel sorry for a group of billionaire, mega millionaire team owners and multi millionaire drivers whining and crying they are being discriminated against by the billionaire France family. As to why driver salaries are declining one has to look no further than the empty seats in the grandstands and declining tv ratings!
Having navigated union contract negotiations myself, it was my philosophy that a negotiator should be working to solve the labor concerns, without aiming so high that you obsolete your workforce. I had a lot of wins in contracts, and I also ate some crow. With a product like NASCAR, you are in a different set of circumstances because you really can't replace your workforce. Your labor constituents are comprised of grass roots racers that work their way into developmental programs and enter the NASCAR system. Your athletes will always be aiming for the next rung in the ladder for more exposure, more money, and more notoriety. As long as NASCAR can provide that, you will always have young drivers in the pipeline. However, what is an absolute X factor that doesn't really apply to my experience is, what happens to a small constituency that decides to rock the boat outside of the bargaining unit? A Rick Hendrick, Rodger Penske, Jack Roush, or Richard Childress can sit back and let someone else do the work. What are the ramifications if these "rogue teams" fail? Well, those teams could fail moving forward to the extent that maybe they no longer exist. Or perhaps these teams set precedent that makes it harder for the negotiating unit in the future? Maybe these teams gain a huge win? Rick, Rodger, Jack, and Richard would never need to open their mouths. It seems to me that this is nothing but a good thing for the majority of teams, because if this lawsuit fails the ramifications will more than likely affect those involved with the suit. Those teams will be the sacrificial lamb so to speak. I think if any damage is done by this lawsuit, the "power teams" can deny involvement, and explain it away future negotiations. Again, the only caveat would be if anything that is precedent setting comes to light, but precedent may be in favor of the teams. It will be very interesting to see where this goes.
Just because you’ve done something the same way for a long time doesn’t mean you’re doing it right, that’s ass backwards thinking
What's good for the France family isn't necessarily good for the sport. What's good for the sport isn't necessarily good for the teams or the tracks. And what's good for NASCAR isn't necessarily good for the viewers.
I hope Jordan don’t end up like his father because of this he’s gonna piss a lot of people off
Facts man. Mj, we all love the man and his competitive greatness, but he's entering uncharted territory and rustling feathers. No pun
NASCAR needs fixed...... I hardly watch it any more. I used to LOVE it. I still watch the NHRA. Something needs to be changed.
UFC fighters are also independent contractors and they just won a similar lawsuit, though they only were awarded 375 million. The only thing that saved the UFC from a larger penalty was they actually have some competition now. I would have to imagine the "scary" part of this for NASCAR is discovery and all the internal documents, emails, etc they will have to turnover that will likely also be available to the public. Could be embarrassing. How much is it worth to NASCAR to avoid that? I don't know
NASCAR needs to go back in time on everything.
Minor correction, it will be 1-2 years to make it to trial, if it goes that far. You can add another year for appeals. More depending on how far up the ladder a party wants to appeal.
You don't get into racing to make money it's a write off on taxes for the rich people
It depends on what part of "get into racing" you mean.
@@2Truth4Liberty as an owner but drivers don't get as rich as they did 10 years ago
tax write off, or money laundering. Sure!
@@charliewhite3992 I think Michael Jordan got into racing to make money (though not the only reason)
@@2Truth4Liberty Jordan tried to make money in Superbike and left once he realized he couldn't.
When you have to paint the grandstand to look like they are full, there is a big problem. NASCAR is a monopoly. When teams are not making a return on their investment, it time for NASCAR to show transparency.
It's not the old days anymore
I'm glad Rick stated about popularity of the sport. I feel the sport is down right now and something that shakes the foundation of the sport could really do damage going forward.
That's like being afraid that something is going to be more broken.
Might also improve things.
It’s good to hear some people with common sense that are neutral talk about the situation. All the owners said it the best they are tired. Jeff Gordon said they don’t profit so what the hell is going on NASCAR is a mafia.
I see Nascar voiding the charter agreements they "forced" the teams to sign and offer a new charter agreement that will be fair to everyone. Nascar doesn't want their financial records to go public and this lawsuit could make this happen. So hopefully Nascar will do the right thing to keep this lawsuit from going forward.....
I don't know if its "the right thing" or not but I am sure they don't want to open their books.
something HAS to be done with the price of the charter. its absolutely rediculous the price of it has jumped so much in such a short time.
I mean if Dale Jr don't want a Cup team...Dale Jr of all people...something is wrong!
@@PaperBanjo64 exactly. there needs to be some level of price control. it was designed to be something teams could sell to have something tangible when leaving the sport not something for teams to profit off of.
@dopeymomasboy yeah these new cars are much more expensive than it was the build cars in house.
Drivers and teams should wake up. Look what happened to Monster Jam. Feld purchased all of Monster Jam. They own the trucks, they own the likenesses of the truck, they pay the mechanics, they pay the drivers. NASCAR has the funds to make this happen.
It's a private company! They can do whatever they want. The owners of the teams can too!
YoThe sound myopic and you're in the narrow minority. Wake up and smell the coffee. NASCAR currently stinks man
Is NASCAR a monopoly? I don’t know.
But they do own NASCAR.
They do own IMSA.
They do own a lot of tracks in America.
So if you wanted to race closed cockpit cars in America professionally, is it possible without giving the France family money?
If you can’t, that might say something about how much monopoly they have
Anybody else is always free to start their own leagues you know! Step on up cowboy!
I think the big picture is much more complicated. The courts will decide. Will probably take months, if not years, to wind its way through the various courts.
CARS TOUR is becoming a better racing division
It’s not that the owners don’t have the “Balls”, they don’t have the $ to take it on, the reason that is, is because NASCR has them not making money, NASCAR doesn’t want the owners to make enough money to take them on! NASCAR has given the owners no choice but to go on! Business models like this go on every day in every aspect of business!
Nascar is a business, and Nascar owns that business. It's their rules, not anyone else's. If they don't like it, HIT THE ROAD
Yeah, but the product sucks. They are all richer than I will ever be, so I don’t care which millionaire gets more and which millionaire loses some. I JUST WANT SOME GOOD RACING AGAIN!
Rick mast looks like Tim Walz 😮
The biggest problem I see here is the Charter system as it stands. 9 of the original 15 failed and are gone now. That’s terrible for the sport. Terrible for teams and drivers. That’s a failure rate that’s unsustainable. Change has to happen. Now is the time. My prediction NASCAR and the France family will delay this as long as possible. Eventually both parties will settle as NASCAR will cave in a little at the very last second in order to save face. Bottom line is in court the France family doesn’t want the world seeing there dirty laundry and all the money they made while 9 charter teams failed.
Nascar is in trouble with or without the lawsuit.
Great conversation. Thanks for sharing with your peeps, Kenny!
Childress said he had less than 6 hours to review and sign the new agreement. He said he ad to do it. These guys want to race but they are not happy.
If it were not for Jordan's money, the lawsuit wouldn't happen.
65% of money goes to the track owner and NASCAR owns many of the tracks.
Great channel! I’ve drifted away form NASCAR for the reasons others have stated. While destroying $10+ million in cars on Sunday me be entertainment for some fans, it’s not sustainable for the Owners. Look at the some of the other series including Australia, and European races and they are much more entertaining to watch and rules are enforced on the spot and driving is more enjoyable to watch. Endurance races at Nurburgring are great to watch with multiple classes of cars running at the same time. Imagine trucks, Xfinity, and Cup running all at the same time!
Maybe they should take more of that money and guaranteed way bigger purses for each race to incentivize teams to want to race in NASCAR
The France family is the only one making money. Good job front row and 23xi.
Im 56yrs old and ive watched nascar my entire life. I think its a good thing what 23xi and frontrow are doing. Nascar needs change and hopefully they'll get more transparency after all this is over. Promoters shouldnt get most of the money period!
Also, a business DOES NOT give only a handful of hours to sign a contract!!! Thats some backroom mafia bullshit!!!
This is why Fanatech GT , Imsa, F1, and Skip Barber are shoveling market share away from Nascar like a bucket wheel excavator. The big one on sunday, and how it played out is a WORST CASE scenario.
Rick is stating facts.
My family and many others built this sport and Nascar really should find some gratitude. Back to basics. France Taj Mahal here in Daytona is evidence. Frances need to start rewarding those who got them there. All of us that built the racing model, do not need nascar to create stunts to promote our sport. Good grassroots racing built this sport and will sustain this sport, with or without a legion like nascar. competitive spirit cannot be overridden.
Nobody is pointing out the fact that over the last 20 years. Nascar has been doing everything, to be just like other sports. Including other motorsports. Everything is ok until money and control come into to play. Or someone new to the sport has a different idea about how to go about things. Then its nascar is not like other sports. Lovevthe show Rick!!! Nascar was a way of life, I listen to more podcast than watching a race
Remember when you cut the hand off that feeds you then you are in deep trouble 😂
By signing that contract on that Friday night they agreed not to sue NASCAR over antitrust issues so NASCAR knows dam good and well what they've done to bring this all forward. And imo it's about time!!!!
It’s over. Look at the few people in the stands, viewership way down . Maybe if all the drivers got together and pushed the 23 car to the starting line things would be better- oh yeah they already did that.
Kenny Wallace said it best. He said he's seen this movie before and it doesn't play out well. NASCAR never looses an appeal as far as i know. NASCAR has some of the best attorneys around and has the money to appeal anything. Doesn't matter to me if they are dictator's because who else is going to compete with them... NOBODY!
“It’s the way we’ve always done it” is an old way of thinking! Revenue sharing needs to happen across the board! Without the teams/drivers, there is no NASCAR!
According to Jeff Gluck, the lawsuit does not include other teams getting any benefits 23XI and Front Row may get if they win.
Why does Rick mast give a fuck about when they act on it?? I feel like all of the older drivers and crew chiefs are just defending nascars bs, which I get ….
But fuck, I love Larry McReynolds like the next man, but respectfully Larry macs a damn crew chief from 1985 ( best nascar racing ever ) BUT Mac don’t own a team, never has. So what weight he holds I’m not sure , most owners love it
And it always some ego shit with older men
Larry Mac with the infamous words “ how dare you come in to our sport “
SHUDDDDDDUPPPPPPPPP
Agreed. Old guard simping for the old guard.
The funny part is the people who bitch about NASCAR changing the sport and ruining it are on NASCAR's side the ones who made 20 years of unnecessary changes, like Darrell Waltrip said if it ain't broke we'll work on it until it is! And that's exactly what NASCAR did! I feel 2010 was the last year of NASCAR being mainstream, after that it completely fell off, and it was already declining by that point to begin with.
Since the last charter agreement how many teams are still left. I think 4 and all of them have huge companies backing there racing hobby so they don’t rely on NASCAR to survive the rest of them are gone. Something has to change so the teams can actually have a business model that they can maybe actually make a profit. NASCAR makes millions upon millions of dollars of profit each year so I’m sure something can change to even things up a bit cause it’s sad that the Petty name still isn’t in the sport on the owner side. The King slowly had to sell his team away. It’s so flawed. I hope 23XI and Front Row affect real change to the sport and good on them for having the BALLS to stand up and do it. I’m not a Hamlin driver fan but a huge Hamlin owner fan. Much respect.
In 2014 Forbes listed the France family net worth at &4.8 billion , that was ten years ago and Rick Hendricks and Penske can’t turn a profit?
I remember when INDY CAR had issues and USAC and the IRL went 1 way and CART went out on their own only to see no one be profitable and come back together as INDYCAR. Some or most of the team owners watched that exercise and are aware of how it went down. that being said 30 years later the media, money and public opinion are very different.
The influx of fans in the mid 90’s was the Gordon Earnhardt rivalry not mlb on strike
Drag racing teams held an event this spring outside of the NHRA wich is owned by NASCAR and it was a big success. Warning shot .
For the last few years NASCAR has been wanting to be like ball sports, play offs, stage breaks and everything else. Now they don’t want to be like them all of a sudden.
When can a conversation be had that the New NASCAR , is NOT the Old NASCAR?? And when as fans did we see it change??
23XI and FRM put their themselves in a fight against the sanctioning body. Its David vs Goliath in the courts. My concern as a fan is nascar heading to the wrong direction? Depends on who you ask. In my opinion yes.
The wheels and tires need to be changed. Diffusers need to go as well.
Hiw many other sports have a 400 or 500 person company. Just curious
Hendrick, Penske and Gibbs can be used as examples all Larry Mac wants but the fact is their wealth is highly based on assets associated with the automotive industry, including racing. MJ and the other owner have billions outside of the automotive world. Yes there is a big difference. The car world is hurting right now. Fixed assets can’t be easily cashed out. That’s why the others signed and 23/11 and front row didn’t. Because those two owners have the most diversified wealth to fight it.
Just cause the team that’s only been here for 4 years isn’t willing to accept bullshit, doesn’t make their argument any less valid. Open up those books nascar.
Go ask your employer, if they are a private company, to open up their books and show you how much they make, better yet demand that. See if you still have a job. Nascar is not a public traded company. They don't have to open their books. Drivers, teams, owners are not entitled to see their books. Don't feel bad more multi million, billion team owners and Nascar either. How many cup teams have you seen file bankruptcy. Cup teams, not Xfinity. 10:21
@@racegrubb2152 Do you think that lawyer would have done all this and they pay all that money if thats all that was required at this magnitude of a sport? "I'ts a private family owned company" thats such a surface level point i think.
@ScottyMac165 that aged well. 23ll just got denied by a judge for Nascar to open their books to 2311 and show them their finances. Denied!!! Lol. Told ya
NASCAR picked the timing! (sign now or else). So when these two teams didn't sign, they needed to file the lawsuit to guarantee they could continue racing. Otherwise, NASCAR could have kicked them out. That is what NASCAR was threatening to do!
To a fan the outcome of this lawsuit really is irrelevant. The reason fans are on the team's side is all of the negative changes NASCAR has implemented and they don't listen to the teams or the fans. NASCAR left their racing product. They took a racing promotion and destroyed it with a failure of a competitive car. This car has not only took racing out of it but it also allowed for less talented drivers to drive. Both makes a boring product. Than add on the failure of a playoff platform and your left here with a failing business. Teams and NASCAR are crumbling and now they are fighting for money to survive.
I disagree with one point, The teams that signed have a deal they have to live with their is a contract they agreed to. The majority agreed to what a 7 year deal? Hendrick, Gibbs, RCR, RFK, Spire, Rick Ware, Hass , Kaulig has a deal they signed. Why would they get more? They already signed a contract.
This lawsuit is all about 23/XI and Front Row.. those two teams never accepted the deal. This is where it’s going to get sticky if The two win they will be getting more than the majority. Why would NASCAR give any of the others the same deal?
Because if 23/11 wins,which they would if it went to court, which it won't, it will prove that NASCAR forced teams to sign under duress . That would include everyone.
You need to change your mind set, we are not like other sports we need to get NASCAR to come off their wallet... Rick Mast is a dinosaur...
U right them guys put there life on the line every time they strap in the car no nascar need to give more to teams and drivers they have to find sponsorship not nascar the team have to do all the work to make it work the teams should b rewarded more to pay employees better
Better Call Saul. All the charters shoud be put on hold until the lawsuit is settled.
Nascar gross 1.8 Billion, Profit 140 million give or take. The teams everyone goes to see and the tracks make how much?
I do also remember a time when a racer was happy to pay the bills and break even.
Now it's a 20 million dollar a season operation and no longer a rented pick up pulling a trailer. The teams themselves have made it more expensive trying to win at all costs and outspend each other, no?
Does the word collusion ever cross peoples minds? The big boys that Rick talks about are the good ole boys that get all the kickbacks.
The model can be changed and needs to be changed to be much more favorable to the teams
What happens when interlopers with no appreciation of history bring their DEEP POCKETS to corrupt the original. Trying to turn a SPORT into A GAME!
I bet the three most winning organizations wanna keep it the way it is. It’s not fair to everyone and that’s the point.
I will never stop watching.
Rick is correct.Nascar is a sanctioning body. Everyone chooses to participate in the series at their own risk and their own expense.The reward is the championship that you seek
They had 2 yrs to sign all was changed on original 105 page document was a paragraph.
the charter values have gone up over time, not down. 2311 can go race anywhere they want.
Name another nationwide US-based stock car series.
Arca ,k&n North , South,East West,
He who’s been doing racing for 60 years, Roger Penske, is failing Indy Car significantly. My opinion, the only positives in Indy Car are the 500 and Long Beach. This lawsuit will make NASCAR better.
I think MJ can afford more lawyers than NASCAR can.
I believe that introduction of the charter system changed the game. NASCAR is going to lose this suit I believe and they should.
NASCAR made Larry Mac and of course that's where his allegiance is. This lawsuit is gonna blow up things big-time. Time will tell if it's for the better...
If you're truly an independent contractor, then why does NASCAR want control of and ownership your intellectual property and likeness?
If there aren't any antitrust issues on NASCAR's part, then why did NASCAR put in the agreement, "You cannot sue us for antitrust infringements." ?
HOW is it reasonable that NASCAR gets BILLIONS in TV and advertising profits, WITH NO REVENUE SHARING with the teams, AND demands tens of millions from the teams to participate? The charters are pure extortion.