A note on needle safety: most needlestick injuries occur when recapping. It is of safest to not recap if possible, just place the needle and syringe in a sharps receptacle. But in a situation like this where you need to recap and reuse the needle, there is a safe method to do it without the possibility of a needlestick. First, lay the cap on the table. Then insert the needle into it with your hand well clear. Now the cap covers the needle. Ideally, push it up against a hard object such as a wall to seat the cap. But if you must, you can do it by hand. Regardless, the point is to keep your hands behind the needle while inserting it into the cap, thus eliminating the possibility of needlestick.
I wonder if anyone has thought to make a seal with multiple types of adhesives, perhaps in a type of checkerboard pattern, and that would each require different solvents. (That Ideally when combined the solvents would either neutralize each-other or create something toxic).
For adhesion on porous surfaces silicate adhesives are basically unremovable. Just keep them dry and then give them a spray with water before applying to set the silicate into glass. You would have to dissolve the glass with boiling hydroxide to get it off.
I have been lifting tamper seals for many years. These seem very impressive seals. Most of the seals I lift are the ones that say warranty void if removed, etc. I have not run into anything like these. Keep giving us content like this. Thanks for the channel
When you peel the tiger, the lock and the majority of the bars come off. The tiger is freed from its cage when you remove the sticker. A nice subtle piece of the design.
most of the succesfull attempts seem to have been started at a place other than the pull tab designed on the sticker. The sticker may have been designed so that the pull tab from the start pulls on the top layer and doesn't interract as much with the bottom layer. I feel like starting away from the pull tab would give an advantage on the succes rate.
It's possible it was designed to ink the applied surface upon application with a precision design that would be nearly impossible to re-align even if removed successfully. It might make more sense to get the kind of blade that's sharp enough to peel paper and remove part of the surface it's applied to and then try to use adhesive to put that back rather than dealing with the seals themselves.
at 8:14 you can see the bottom layer is about 1 millimeter shorter then the edge of the top layer. The peel tab creates more distance and thus a huge disparity between the amount of force applied to the top layer versus the bottom. A would also guess the adhesive on the top layer is pretty weak while the bottom layer adhesive is pretty strong.
@@RoamingAdhocrat Hilariously enough, I googled "railway accident involving seals" and apparently in 2010 there was one in Auckland where the seal in question (nicknamed 'Thomas' by the rail crew) decided to explore around a rail yard with predictably painful results... The seal made a full recovery with a bit of vet doctorin', as did the shunter's crew. Edit: For a sadder tale, see also the tragic death of Dale the Seal in 2017.
The important thing to realize about tamper evidence seals in that you only need to get the seal removed and reapplied on one side of the closure. If you can lift the sticker enough to get in, do what you need to do, and reseal, then you've won.
It's funny, one of the oldest things I learned from Ollam years ago was the difference between Tamper-proof vs Tamper-evident.... These are Tamper-evident! :)
Armchair engineering here… If I were making a tamper proof label, I world use.. 4 adhesives. One holding the two layers together - weak-sauce. 3 in an almost plaid pattern to hold the seal in place. 2 that specifically react to different solvents. Brownie-points if one solvent mars the other adhesive. (say, lace the adhesive with A&B that, in presence of alcohol, dissolve and react producing a stain - among other traits, this means the solvent destroys the seal). The final adhesive should be dyed and difficult to remove - ideally the thing where if any is left behind, it’s fairly obvious
The issue is that these are effectively throw away products. It's no use if the seal costs more than the item it's protecting. The problem, as with many in engineering, is to produce a product that's good enough to do the job, and cheap enough to be used for the job.
I wonder if that would be viable, or would go off on humidity or pressure, etc. a seal that produces false positives with any real frequency is also ineffective
Fair points. Age and UV, and toxicity will be other concerns (someone, somewhere will get glue on their hands, and then eat things…) not all things however are cheap - I’ve seen $1000+ products with tamper seals, so I’d assume there’s possibly a market for seals with more resistance, but meh: This is what you get from armchair engineers - poorly thought out ideas that might (hopefully) land outside the box of things that are normal, and will likely include some amount of pure silly.
@@TheMatthooksSome of Eric's goofy ideas could be implemented cost-effectively. Like just hit it with a kids' washable marker and bam, you've got your solvent detector feature.
What about extreme temperatures? Maybe a heat gun would thin out the adhesive or allow better solvent penetration? Maybe cold would freeze the layers together during removal, or make the bonds to the mounting substrate more brittle and less grippy? PS when I re-cap needles, I scoop the cap up off the table instead of holding it, to avoid poking toward my fingers.
Very interesting and thorough experiment. Even reapplying (at least of the tiger) would pose a challenge, since not all of the stencil is supposed to stick to the surface.
what prevents you from copying the label and print it yourself, then replace the broken one? Or just take a picture, edit until its identical, then print.
@@Sharpless2 most of the time these seals are made using a special type of paper that is not your normal printer paper as those will be easily damaged by liquids. Thus it's uncommon for someone to have a similar type of treated paper lying around, much less the ability to copy it if it's stuck on a box and bent, etc.
Fascinating video - it looks as though with enough patience, you could probably defeat most of these seals, but these ones certainly demand a lot more time and access than products from their peers.
It's been something I've tinkered with for a while... I gave a few to some of the Tamper Evident crew at DEFCON in order to get feedback. You'll see more of this kit in future, for sure
Love this type of content, I remember trying to lift many security stickers on random devices over the years with varying success. Seeing new tamper evident products gets my brain juices flowing for more resistant methods!
Depends on the circumstances. Hardware theft in companies is real, so having a seal that you can put on hardware you are lending out is certainly useful and a valid use case.
I can’t wait for this guy to have 10 years worth of experience and he end it like LPL does. “Alright folks, as you can see this tamper evident seal suffers from [Insert Security Flaw Here] which makes it susceptible to brute force isopropyl attacks. As always this has been DeviantOllam signing off” can’t wait to see more content! It’s fun seeing how things work.
So if you get a chance, here's another couple solvents you might like to try: Chloroform - No, you can't knock someone out with a rag, but it is a nice organic solvent. The chlorinated solvents often pick up things are stubborn to hydrocarbons and alcohols. Not sure how easy it would be to buy, but it's pretty trivial to make and you don't need much. Acetonitrile - not because it's an outstanding solvent itself, but because it's a different angle. Not something I'd expect anyone to be preparing for. No idea about availability, but maybe you know a guy at a forensic lab who happens to have an HPLC machine.
@@graealex Certainly is, also worth a shot. Maybe not hugely different in what it will pick up vs the others Deviant has already tried, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. One of the nitro- solvents would also be a cool one to try, but I don't think any of them are very readily available any more.
@@jdmillar86 The nitro solvents have the nasty side-effect of dissolving everything, not just the glue. They are available here in Germany, for painting applications still.
I had nice results with lamp oil, which is a mix of naphtha and paraffinum perliquidum. The naphtha lift the sticker and the paraffin oil stops it from sticking again. So you can apply and leave for a while.
Rather than applying from the side/top try applying from the rear of the medium the tamper seal is stuck on so the solvent “soaks through” rather than “soaking under”. When a security seal is on a box it may be best to open the box from another side/edge thus avoiding the tamper seal completely.
I really like the MG Chemicals 404B contact cleaner for actually cleaning contacts, but it has a heady mix of organic solvents in it and I've found that it is excellent at dissolving sticker adhesive. The 404 has silicones, so some experimentation might be in order to eliminate residue; looks like 409B has the same mix of solvents and claims to be zero residue. A can of that will blend in more than a case full of sharps, too.
I have never in my life shown interest in tamper seals or their removal, have no idea why youtube would recommend this to me, but yet I prove the algorithm knows me better than myself because goddamn that tiger seal is sick!
New to this site. Found out about you from watching Ian (@Runkle of the Bailey). Love watching DIY's and was a Tool representative for many years. Love "tinkering" and get motivated from watching shows like this. Thank you for sharing your endeavors. I would like to be on your mailing list. Where do I send my information?
15:10 Isn't it just a case of letting the surfaces dry out completely before sticking it back on? Looks to me like there was plenty of fluid left between the surfaces, preventing adhesion.
With a heat gun pen I could definitely expand on what you did here. I think not just the material but the time and moisture that sticker is subjected too could make it transfer even more.
As a furry, you are VERY right about the joke being there with the tigers ass. I'll show this to some friends, see what terrible things we come up with. Or if they just really really like the tiger. Edit: They really liked the tiger. There is now the possibility of some "lock themed" securikett tiger art lingering.
I would think that a good design for a seal would be to have a weak and strechy portion that will be affixed to the item being guarded and is initially also affixed, slightly randomly pre-stretched, to a stiff facing sheet which will be peeled off after the seal is applied. The facing sheet should have a fine pattern of holes in it, some of which should also go the seal as well. To use the seal, one would start by applying the seal with the facing attached, then use the facing as a stencil to ink the seal and the material behind it. Once that is done, peel off the facing sheet. If the main seal is ever detached from the item being guarded, it would be essentially impossible to make the pattern of dots on the seal line up properly with the pattern of dots on the item being guarded.
Chemist here....try RPDE, its a mix of di-esters, sometimes used in nail polish remover that do not contain acetone... a very good paint remover that is non flamable.
I’m surprised you don’t go any heavier with chemicals. You might want to add Xylol, acetone, and maybe a nuclear bomb option like M.E.K. I know it would destroy the adhesive on the sticker, but it might lift it. I have no clue how I came across your channel, but I absolutely love it!
I’d love to see attempts on Evidence tape. Similar to what the police use. Bags VS rolls. It’s usually a tin material with strong adhesive designed to tear easily like a wristband or tissue paper almost
Have you ever tried using diethyl ether? I'm admittedly a bit curious about how ethanol, acetone, and ether would perform for this type of stuff. If heptane works best for you (since you call it the big guns) then I'm guessing large, non-polar molecules work best, but I'd be really curious to see what diethyl ether would do since that's a relatively small molecule, low boiling point, and it's a great solvent.
Deviant, will you take a special request from a stranger? If you still have these (even a post exploit one) will you check to see if your peel away solvent attack causes a permanent marker mark to bleed/spread out/wipe off the seal? I'm curious if the attack is still valid if edge signing was employed.
@@djcfrompt One would think. But I can imagine if the start of the peel weren't colocated with the sharpie overlap it might be possible to treat the underside of the seal and peel it up entire without exposing the particular bit of the seal top that's marked. Or maybe the quantities of solvent used are so low they don't have a readily observable effect. I think you're 95% likely to be right, but if it's something that can be tested with an easy practical that remaining 5% might be worth discrediting via experimentation.
I'm surprised that heat isn't in the standard toolkit. I find that a heat gun or jar of hot water works wonders on removing a lot of household labels; perhaps real security seals do some kind of tamper resistance thing like thermal receipt paper or something?
The box you put the Tiger sticker on, the one where it already had plastic stickers on it that made it hard to get your solvent under. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you just lift up the stickers underneath, and leave the seal in place over them? Does that make any sense?
Why don't they use something like alcohol soluble ink to splosh around if you apply alcohol sorta like a watercolor effect, or something that would react with oxygen or some other gas in the air if exposed, and which would likely be left behind and exposed when working on the first layer?
At about 11:40 I noticed the tamper seal is on a sticker, at least in part. So the obvious thing my brain says is try removing the sticker and does the seal come with it? And if you mess up the seal does the sticker aid in placing it back so it is undetected? In essence tampering with the container and not the seal.
hey man do you think it uses something like how a lithograph is printed, could be a two part system of a greasy litho-crayon material and maybe some kind of very fine graphite or other rock for the litho ink to stick too, when you mentioned the soft layer of the sticker it reminds me of how a soft tissue like material is put over the litho plate before printing to make pressure even.
Can someone make a rap out of this guy. Lol This is the pull flap, once you get up to that first bar man that that tiger starts to grab, let’s just go full boar and knock a heptane up in this corner it’s grabbing it’s really grabbing
Man, those are just seals with a temporary tattoo material on the bottom. Lol. I've seen that sort of adhesive cellulose layer many times before, although I guess that could be a totally different material and could be petroleum based instead of plant/bio based. 🤔
I recently had to pick up the matching solvent for some hellish blood red roofing membrane glue, and yea it worked a treat on the glue, it also leeched the colour out of the permeable membrane underneath.... no biggie, we had another roll handy, went to grab it, and at least 2 different tamper-proof seals that normally hold those rolls closed just fell off 👀 those gloves got launched right into the bin and I don't think I've ever washed my hands so much since I did it, and I was consciously avoiding finger food for a few days 🙈 I can't remember the name of the solvent, but the glue is the awful red coloured one for the fatra roofing membrane system, you can probably find it from there. I was using it on a flat roof on days with no wind and record breaking temperatures here in the UK, lucky I didn't fall off the bloody roof, the fumes from that glue are hilarious 😆
15:05 but the testing person might conclude that this sticker or this application was faulty. Though I guess that's general misuse of a tamper evident sticker.
I think coming at the pull flap rather than the other edges is making it difficult, it seems like that is where the secondary layer is already in place
@DeviantOllam Have you given any thought to building and using some sort of micro steam syringe? As hot steam is known for being able to dissolve or separate glue?
My concern with validating the tiger seal. If you remove the sticker and sand away/cover the “void status” then re glue the top bit can you tell it’s been voided ??
Naphtha is the usual solvent base in all sorts of commercial rubber cement based adhesives and labels. But it shouldn't affect ink. Maybe you can find a patent application online that says more than "trade secret" ?
![[1422] Did I Cheat On This Challenge? (Tamper-Sealed Abus)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xUJtqvYDnkg/mqdefault.jpg)
A note on needle safety: most needlestick injuries occur when recapping. It is of safest to not recap if possible, just place the needle and syringe in a sharps receptacle. But in a situation like this where you need to recap and reuse the needle, there is a safe method to do it without the possibility of a needlestick. First, lay the cap on the table. Then insert the needle into it with your hand well clear. Now the cap covers the needle. Ideally, push it up against a hard object such as a wall to seat the cap. But if you must, you can do it by hand. Regardless, the point is to keep your hands behind the needle while inserting it into the cap, thus eliminating the possibility of needlestick.
Good to know, thank you!
This guy needles
It's not like they're "dirty" needles though.
It doesn't matter. Unless they're in sterile field, no needle is clean. Plus stabbing yourself is not fun.
@@himothaniel Exactly
I wonder if anyone has thought to make a seal with multiple types of adhesives, perhaps in a type of checkerboard pattern, and that would each require different solvents. (That Ideally when combined the solvents would either neutralize each-other or create something toxic).
What a cool idea
One's soluble in ammonia or peroxide, while one can only be removed with bleach. Pick your poison, trichloramine or singlet oxygen?
Alternatively, create a substrate that changes color or dissolves completely when exposed to solvent.
@@databoy2010 I was thinking you could mix in a bunch of dyes to the adhesive so you’d end up with a big smudge of color on porous materials
For adhesion on porous surfaces silicate adhesives are basically unremovable. Just keep them dry and then give them a spray with water before applying to set the silicate into glass. You would have to dissolve the glass with boiling hydroxide to get it off.
I have been lifting tamper seals for many years. These seem very impressive seals. Most of the seals I lift are the ones that say warranty void if removed, etc. I have not run into anything like these. Keep giving us content like this. Thanks for the channel
Warranty stickers like that deserve it.
warranty void stickers are illegal in the usa. but they still do them for some reason.
@@dan_loeb because the FTC prob wont do anything about it and you would prob have to take them to court to get them to repair it.
@@dan_loeb I'm assuming a portion of people would be unaware of its illegality and not take advantage of the warranty thinking they've voided it
What are tamper seals usually used on?
When you peel the tiger, the lock and the majority of the bars come off. The tiger is freed from its cage when you remove the sticker.
A nice subtle piece of the design.
The tiger
He destroyed his cage
Yes
YES
The tiger is out
The tiger is out
@@SuperFranzs "the tiger is out", in other words, "you're screwed" lol
most of the succesfull attempts seem to have been started at a place other than the pull tab designed on the sticker. The sticker may have been designed so that the pull tab from the start pulls on the top layer and doesn't interract as much with the bottom layer. I feel like starting away from the pull tab would give an advantage on the succes rate.
Nice little bait&switch idea. Worth giving it a shot! 👍
It's possible it was designed to ink the applied surface upon application with a precision design that would be nearly impossible to re-align even if removed successfully. It might make more sense to get the kind of blade that's sharp enough to peel paper and remove part of the surface it's applied to and then try to use adhesive to put that back rather than dealing with the seals themselves.
@@DSiren which at this point feels like a mighty win for the seal
at 8:14 you can see the bottom layer is about 1 millimeter shorter then the edge of the top layer.
The peel tab creates more distance and thus a huge disparity between the amount of force applied to the top layer versus the bottom.
A would also guess the adhesive on the top layer is pretty weak while the bottom layer adhesive is pretty strong.
Reminds us to wear gloves
*shows gloves*
*DOESN'T WEAR GLOVES*
3:46
Gotta keep the gloves with the kit for when the OSHA guy comes around.
if you were a track engineer on a low-lying coastal railway you'd need a seal-resistant tamper
As a rail fan and a dad joke abuser, I approve of this VERY bad joke!
Indeed
That took me far too long to get... bravo.
@@OutbackCatgirl oh no, how much damage did the seals do?
@@RoamingAdhocrat Hilariously enough, I googled "railway accident involving seals" and apparently in 2010 there was one in Auckland where the seal in question (nicknamed 'Thomas' by the rail crew) decided to explore around a rail yard with predictably painful results... The seal made a full recovery with a bit of vet doctorin', as did the shunter's crew.
Edit: For a sadder tale, see also the tragic death of Dale the Seal in 2017.
"There's a furry joke in there somewhere about a tigers ass" First vid I've seen from you and this won me over, dying laughing
The important thing to realize about tamper evidence seals in that you only need to get the seal removed and reapplied on one side of the closure. If you can lift the sticker enough to get in, do what you need to do, and reseal, then you've won.
The whole removal is just a good proof of concept that it works
Yeah, he’s just zipping around with that thing lol
It's funny, one of the oldest things I learned from Ollam years ago was the difference between Tamper-proof vs Tamper-evident.... These are Tamper-evident! :)
Armchair engineering here…
If I were making a tamper proof label, I world use..
4 adhesives. One holding the two layers together - weak-sauce.
3 in an almost plaid pattern to hold the seal in place. 2 that specifically react to different solvents. Brownie-points if one solvent mars the other adhesive. (say, lace the adhesive with A&B that, in presence of alcohol, dissolve and react producing a stain - among other traits, this means the solvent destroys the seal). The final adhesive should be dyed and difficult to remove - ideally the thing where if any is left behind, it’s fairly obvious
The issue is that these are effectively throw away products. It's no use if the seal costs more than the item it's protecting. The problem, as with many in engineering, is to produce a product that's good enough to do the job, and cheap enough to be used for the job.
I wonder if that would be viable, or would go off on humidity or pressure, etc. a seal that produces false positives with any real frequency is also ineffective
Fair points. Age and UV, and toxicity will be other concerns (someone, somewhere will get glue on their hands, and then eat things…) not all things however are cheap - I’ve seen $1000+ products with tamper seals, so I’d assume there’s possibly a market for seals with more resistance, but meh: This is what you get from armchair engineers - poorly thought out ideas that might (hopefully) land outside the box of things that are normal, and will likely include some amount of pure silly.
@@TheMatthooksSome of Eric's goofy ideas could be implemented cost-effectively. Like just hit it with a kids' washable marker and bam, you've got your solvent detector feature.
I think the best thing to look into would be using an ink that would bleed when using these solvents. Might be the cheaper solution too.
Fun fact: "Etikett" isThe German, Swedish, Norwegian and Hungarian word for label. Hence the name means something like "Securi-label".
In Hungarian we also use "Etikett" for etiquette, which checks out since etiquette labels are apparently a thing.
@@ComingInHotPink In swedish it is the same.
Same in estonian, but we use the word "silt" in normal conversation a lot more
Kat
And Bulgarian for the same thing :)
What about extreme temperatures? Maybe a heat gun would thin out the adhesive or allow better solvent penetration? Maybe cold would freeze the layers together during removal, or make the bonds to the mounting substrate more brittle and less grippy?
PS when I re-cap needles, I scoop the cap up off the table instead of holding it, to avoid poking toward my fingers.
I've personally seen tamper seal turns black when I blow hot air on it... Kinda like thermal print paper
@@pierreuntel1970 video if possible please
Rubbing some dry ice on it would be interesting to try.
Please note that you have their contact details in view right at the start; not sure if that's intentional or a slight oversight.
seems corporate contacts for a salesperson so it's probably fine.
Very interesting and thorough experiment. Even reapplying (at least of the tiger) would pose a challenge, since not all of the stencil is supposed to stick to the surface.
If the sticker manufacturer used ink that dissolves in solvent for part of the design then it would be harder to remove and replace.
what prevents you from copying the label and print it yourself, then replace the broken one? Or just take a picture, edit until its identical, then print.
Or some kind of reacting agent that changes color when in the presence of a solvent
And the glue would dissolve the ink.
@@Sharpless2 most of the time these seals are made using a special type of paper that is not your normal printer paper as those will be easily damaged by liquids. Thus it's uncommon for someone to have a similar type of treated paper lying around, much less the ability to copy it if it's stuck on a box and bent, etc.
@@chronovortex6495 use sticker paper. Its only supposed to look authentic.
Did I just stumble upon the lock-pick-lawyer of security seals?
Fascinating video - it looks as though with enough patience, you could probably defeat most of these seals, but these ones certainly demand a lot more time and access than products from their peers.
This has This Old Tony vibes.
A very uplifting video.
Where does he get those wonderful toys? Or, in this case, that awesome tamper seal kit?
It's been something I've tinkered with for a while... I gave a few to some of the Tamper Evident crew at DEFCON in order to get feedback. You'll see more of this kit in future, for sure
@@DeviantOllam So can we expect some kind of sale for this beautiful kit?
@@konstantinosalvertos8206 one day you may 😊👍
Love this type of content, I remember trying to lift many security stickers on random devices over the years with varying success. Seeing new tamper evident products gets my brain juices flowing for more resistant methods!
If you are putting a cap back onto the needle, you should adopt a one-handed technique.
Those are awesome tamper seals. I mean I hate those things but the design/tech is awesome
Depends on the circumstances. Hardware theft in companies is real, so having a seal that you can put on hardware you are lending out is certainly useful and a valid use case.
I love how the labels look on the bottles!
Algorithms working wonders here I’ve never once had an interest in tamper proof seals but I can’t stop watching
I can’t wait for this guy to have 10 years worth of experience and he end it like LPL does. “Alright folks, as you can see this tamper evident seal suffers from [Insert Security Flaw Here] which makes it susceptible to brute force isopropyl attacks. As always this has been DeviantOllam signing off” can’t wait to see more content! It’s fun seeing how things work.
So if you get a chance, here's another couple solvents you might like to try:
Chloroform - No, you can't knock someone out with a rag, but it is a nice organic solvent. The chlorinated solvents often pick up things are stubborn to hydrocarbons and alcohols. Not sure how easy it would be to buy, but it's pretty trivial to make and you don't need much.
Acetonitrile - not because it's an outstanding solvent itself, but because it's a different angle. Not something I'd expect anyone to be preparing for. No idea about availability, but maybe you know a guy at a forensic lab who happens to have an HPLC machine.
Ether is also a good solvent.
@@graealex Certainly is, also worth a shot. Maybe not hugely different in what it will pick up vs the others Deviant has already tried, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. One of the nitro- solvents would also be a cool one to try, but I don't think any of them are very readily available any more.
@@jdmillar86 The nitro solvents have the nasty side-effect of dissolving everything, not just the glue. They are available here in Germany, for painting applications still.
@@jdmillar86 nitro solvent is just 70% toluene and 30% acetone, sometimes with some additives
@@Zyczu55 I'm referring to nitrated hydrocarbons, mostly alkanes.
Awesome product with a cool cat. Curious to learn what your tamper evident friends find out.
Me, too 👍
Me, too 👍
Me, too 👍
@@DeviantOllam you six?
From one Philadelphian to another: Thanks for calling it a "serial number jawn" 😉Appreciate you, bud
I had nice results with lamp oil, which is a mix of naphtha and paraffinum perliquidum. The naphtha lift the sticker and the paraffin oil stops it from sticking again. So you can apply and leave for a while.
Really love what RUclips spits out at 4am. Super cool
Rather than applying from the side/top try applying from the rear of the medium the tamper seal is stuck on so the solvent “soaks through” rather than “soaking under”. When a security seal is on a box it may be best to open the box from another side/edge thus avoiding the tamper seal completely.
If you can open it without disturbing the seal, then just open it that way. The goal is to surreptitiously open the item, not to remove the seal!
Seems like a great tramper seal. Huge improvement from the competition.
I really like the MG Chemicals 404B contact cleaner for actually cleaning contacts, but it has a heady mix of organic solvents in it and I've found that it is excellent at dissolving sticker adhesive. The 404 has silicones, so some experimentation might be in order to eliminate residue; looks like 409B has the same mix of solvents and claims to be zero residue. A can of that will blend in more than a case full of sharps, too.
I have silicones? Neat.
I was already drawn to your channel, then the simpsons quote...
Im hooked
Have you tried heating the tamper seals before attempting removal? Either with a heat gun or heating pad like is used for phone screen replacement.
The Lock Picking Lawyer of Tamper Seals.
this man is a threat for the whole security industry
I have never in my life shown interest in tamper seals or their removal, have no idea why youtube would recommend this to me, but yet I prove the algorithm knows me better than myself because goddamn that tiger seal is sick!
those are pretty neat Stickers, indeed.
and coming up with ways to get them to release on hard Surfaces sounds like a nice challenge.
New to this site. Found out about you from watching Ian (@Runkle of the Bailey). Love watching DIY's and was a Tool representative for many years. Love "tinkering" and get motivated from watching shows like this. Thank you for sharing your endeavors.
I would like to be on your mailing list. Where do I send my information?
15:10 Isn't it just a case of letting the surfaces dry out completely before sticking it back on? Looks to me like there was plenty of fluid left between the surfaces, preventing adhesion.
Try freeze spray--canned air sprayed with the can upside down.
Lighter fluid is naphtha. Been using it for years. I always have some on stock.
With a heat gun pen I could definitely expand on what you did here. I think not just the material but the time and moisture that sticker is subjected too could make it transfer even more.
As a furry, you are VERY right about the joke being there with the tigers ass. I'll show this to some friends, see what terrible things we come up with. Or if they just really really like the tiger.
Edit: They really liked the tiger. There is now the possibility of some "lock themed" securikett tiger art lingering.
I expect there to be R34 material 'bout the 'sealing Tiger' soon... :D
@@Finwolven on my way
I was wondering why RUclips put this video in my feed and now I understand. Did not expect the furry joke
@@rumbledrake116 echo chambers
@@skmgeek its been a year, whats your e6
This is the coolest thing I have stumbled upon i never even heard of such a thing
I like the idea of putting art on the seals. That tiger is very cool
Would love to see you take a look at the tamper seals used for freight.
I would think that a good design for a seal would be to have a weak and strechy portion that will be affixed to the item being guarded and is initially also affixed, slightly randomly pre-stretched, to a stiff facing sheet which will be peeled off after the seal is applied. The facing sheet should have a fine pattern of holes in it, some of which should also go the seal as well. To use the seal, one would start by applying the seal with the facing attached, then use the facing as a stencil to ink the seal and the material behind it. Once that is done, peel off the facing sheet. If the main seal is ever detached from the item being guarded, it would be essentially impossible to make the pattern of dots on the seal line up properly with the pattern of dots on the item being guarded.
Just found this channel. Super cool stuff, mate!
these seals are awesome haha love the concept
Thanks for the video 🔍
Maybe it's a rub/dry transfers decal plus sticker? that's what it reminds me of
Chemist here....try RPDE, its a mix of di-esters, sometimes used in nail polish remover that do not contain acetone... a very good paint remover that is non flamable.
Notice how when the seal has not been tampered with, the gold lock is closed. When you remove the seal, the image of the lock now shows as unlocked.
I mean...a hair drier does it every time for me.
BONUS: if you stick the sticker to a strip of masking tape, re-application is a cinch!
I wonder if you sprayed chlorinated brake cleaner on the back of the paper/sticker if it would dissolve the adhesive
On the non-porous surface, could you make a dam around it with some plasticine so you can hold it under a layer of solvent for a while?
I was personally thinking about vapor diffusion, but that might work too. Also much safer than alcohol steam.
me going "I cant believe that failed" knowing absolutely nothing about what I'm seeing
Neat seals! You know a company believes in their product when they send it out to a guy like you!
I’m surprised you don’t go any heavier with chemicals. You might want to add Xylol, acetone, and maybe a nuclear bomb option like M.E.K. I know it would destroy the adhesive on the sticker, but it might lift it. I have no clue how I came across your channel, but I absolutely love it!
I’d love to see attempts on Evidence tape. Similar to what the police use. Bags VS rolls. It’s usually a tin material with strong adhesive designed to tear easily like a wristband or tissue paper almost
Me: "No officer, This isn't drugs...I just like to test tamper proof seals..."
This is certainly kind of pen testing I've never even considered, but super neat none the less
Thanks Deviant
Have you ever tried using diethyl ether? I'm admittedly a bit curious about how ethanol, acetone, and ether would perform for this type of stuff.
If heptane works best for you (since you call it the big guns) then I'm guessing large, non-polar molecules work best, but I'd be really curious to see what diethyl ether would do since that's a relatively small molecule, low boiling point, and it's a great solvent.
ether is hard to work with because it's too fast. hexane or non chloro brake clean is worth exploring though,
Deviant, will you take a special request from a stranger?
If you still have these (even a post exploit one) will you check to see if your peel away solvent attack causes a permanent marker mark to bleed/spread out/wipe off the seal? I'm curious if the attack is still valid if edge signing was employed.
Seems like it should be evident - these sorts of solvents do a great job dissolving Sharpie ink.
@@djcfrompt One would think. But I can imagine if the start of the peel weren't colocated with the sharpie overlap it might be possible to treat the underside of the seal and peel it up entire without exposing the particular bit of the seal top that's marked. Or maybe the quantities of solvent used are so low they don't have a readily observable effect.
I think you're 95% likely to be right, but if it's something that can be tested with an easy practical that remaining 5% might be worth discrediting via experimentation.
@@seanfager8063 Ah, good point, I didn't think about it that way
AvE's PTFE blade helps.
ruclips.net/video/wfOZKj8ZGqo/видео.html
You know, AvE's knowledge of the hydraulics field might yield some interesting results, maybe a colab could help.
I'm surprised that heat isn't in the standard toolkit. I find that a heat gun or jar of hot water works wonders on removing a lot of household labels; perhaps real security seals do some kind of tamper resistance thing like thermal receipt paper or something?
58 second mark...."serial number jawn!" Your from Philly or Delco ! Nice!
very interesting Deviant thanks for the info
The box you put the Tiger sticker on, the one where it already had plastic stickers on it that made it hard to get your solvent under. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you just lift up the stickers underneath, and leave the seal in place over them? Does that make any sense?
"dont do what donny don't does" set me the hell off hahahah
"Remember, always wear your gloves!" *Proceeds without it*
I don’t know if you caught it, but you succeeded in getting some of the “transfer paper” deal on the tiger tail for the paper they gave you
Why don't they use something like alcohol soluble ink to splosh around if you apply alcohol sorta like a watercolor effect, or something that would react with oxygen or some other gas in the air if exposed, and which would likely be left behind and exposed when working on the first layer?
So far the ultimate heist team consists of DeviantOllam, Lockpicking lawyer and Crazy Rocket (Robert Maddox) man as a getaway driver.
Is it possible to buy that kit you have with all the vials and stuff as a complete kit?
At about 11:40 I noticed the tamper seal is on a sticker, at least in part. So the obvious thing my brain says is try removing the sticker and does the seal come with it? And if you mess up the seal does the sticker aid in placing it back so it is undetected? In essence tampering with the container and not the seal.
What about on a powder coated surface. Like how most desktop panels are now. You know to get into the desktop and maybe upgrade or tinker
hey man do you think it uses something like how a lithograph is printed, could be a two part system of a greasy litho-crayon material and maybe some kind of very fine graphite or other rock for the litho ink to stick too, when you mentioned the soft layer of the sticker it reminds me of how a soft tissue like material is put over the litho plate before printing to make pressure even.
if you can look at the ink under a magnifying glass then the pattern of the ink drying can help determine how it was made
Can someone make a rap out of this guy. Lol
This is the pull flap, once you get up to that first bar man that that tiger starts to grab, let’s just go full boar and knock a heptane up in this corner it’s grabbing it’s really grabbing
Really cool video
What if someone used a small prying tool like the one used at 12:56, but it had a build in mechanism to constantly dispense small amounts of solvant
Man, those are just seals with a temporary tattoo material on the bottom. Lol. I've seen that sort of adhesive cellulose layer many times before, although I guess that could be a totally different material and could be petroleum based instead of plant/bio based. 🤔
This looks like a decent enough seal to me.
I recently had to pick up the matching solvent for some hellish blood red roofing membrane glue, and yea it worked a treat on the glue, it also leeched the colour out of the permeable membrane underneath.... no biggie, we had another roll handy, went to grab it, and at least 2 different tamper-proof seals that normally hold those rolls closed just fell off 👀 those gloves got launched right into the bin and I don't think I've ever washed my hands so much since I did it, and I was consciously avoiding finger food for a few days 🙈
I can't remember the name of the solvent, but the glue is the awful red coloured one for the fatra roofing membrane system, you can probably find it from there. I was using it on a flat roof on days with no wind and record breaking temperatures here in the UK, lucky I didn't fall off the bloody roof, the fumes from that glue are hilarious 😆
15:05 but the testing person might conclude that this sticker or this application was faulty. Though I guess that's general misuse of a tamper evident sticker.
When the seal is over a non-tamper sticker it might be best to remove the non-tamper sticker with the tamper seal.
it would be interesting to test different types of plastic. for instance, hdpe or uhmwpe is notably hard to adhere things too.
I wonder if some sort of vibratory (ultrasonic?) stimulation would help solvent in.
I think coming at the pull flap rather than the other edges is making it difficult, it seems like that is where the secondary layer is already in place
@DeviantOllam Have you given any thought to building and using some sort of micro steam syringe? As hot steam is known for being able to dissolve or separate glue?
My concern with validating the tiger seal.
If you remove the sticker and sand away/cover the “void status” then re glue the top bit can you tell it’s been voided ??
@deviantollam, how about using vibration or ultra sonics to aid the solvent getting under the seal.
I wonder how difficult it would be to make the seal chemicaly reactive to solvents so the color changes.
Naphtha is the usual solvent base in all sorts of commercial rubber cement based adhesives and labels. But it shouldn't affect ink. Maybe you can find a patent application online that says more than "trade secret" ?
What about pulling it off and applying a weak acid over the surface of what's left down