Hi Sam, thank you for all the efforts you put in to continually evolve and advance your output: it must have its difficulties for you sometimes. If others eg Hornby, Bachman etc had your sincerity and endeavour towards the hobby then the hobby would be a wonderland. Many, many thanks!
Fairly reasonable review Sam, the only issue I would have is the paint finish. I think the semi matt or maybe satin finish is more representative than gloss. Steam era coaching stock was rarely full on gloss, particularly suburban stock. Definitely agree on the rip off factor though.
I agree , I think Sam was over critical of the matte finish. In real life red and maroon coaches lose their varnished gloss rapidly , look at preserved railway coaches for examples !
I've just invested in a set of Coronation Scot carriages most of which were at the top end of the prices mentioned. It's one of those things where it made no sense in mixing the old inaccurate models and the new ones. Having taken the hit I'm very pleased with them and as I won't be buying more my approach is to take the sting out of it by looking forward to getting a good number of years enjoyment out of them. Also, a lot of money for inaccurate but useable carriages is one thing but when the carriages are accurate at least you feel you're getting something for the money.
Hi Sam, I love your honest and unbiased revues and I agree that model trains are just getting so ridiculously expensive that I can no longer afford to buy them, even second hand still carries a huge price tag. It's such a shame because I love my trains and it's the only hobby I have. I can remember as a child model trains were aimed for the younger market, nowadays it seems that it for the adult collector and even Hornby's Railroad models seem to be getting more expensive or so it seems so heaven knows how children today can afford them. When manufacturing was moved to China we were told it was to keep the cost of the model down to make them more affordable for all (that's worked then, not) well not anymore it seems, especially when a lot of the products are just plastic as you have demonstrated in this revue. I don't know how the hobby is to survive if we just keep getting ripped off with overpriced products as I'm sure prices will continue to rise. There I've got that of my chest. Please carry on with the great revues.
Thanks for another great coaching stock review - particularly excellent as you had a decent rake and could give some well-balanced overall average scores. I do think it was a terrible move by Hornby to overcharge at first and then release a whole lot at the lower (more justifiable) price. If I'd paid £360 for a rake of six, and then saw. a month or so later, the same things going for less that half the price, I'd have been furious - and never bought anything Hornby again...
OK. To be honest I have quite a few of both Gresley and Thomson suburbans and have paid around 20 quid each for them, but only after searching them out over a couple of years. The initial production was too expensive for me, although they sold out very quickly at the then full price. I do think they have always been worth significantly more than 20GBP.
hi sam. i am glad i managed to buy a box load of these coaches well worth the 25 pounds each from hattons. a person would be mad to spend more than that on them as they are.. i actually made mine worth hornbys rrp by fitting led light strips with pickups and a whole bunch of passengers!!!
One important thing about the Gresley suburbans - they are actually shorter than the suburbans of all the other big four companies. I bought these because I can actually get more of them on my small layout.
Hi Sam. I agree coaches like these aren't worth the full RRp, although £25 is fair enough in my view. One thing to bare in mind regarding model shop discounts is I believe they are intially only allowed to give a maximum 10% discount (the same as being a Hornby club member) when Hornby models are first released. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that after 12 months they can give bigger discounts if they want.
Excellent review Sam. I managed to build a rake of 5 of the Teak finish of these coaches for around £40 each. Absolutely stunning running behind the GNR Atlantic ;)
I'm still running old early 1960's Triang Railways red suburban stock, on my layout and have been doing soo of years. It does the job just fine, for considerably less cost. For the cost of one new Hornby £60 coach, anyone can buy 3 or 4 old Triang Railways suburban coaches and, if lucky, some previous owner will have installed scale wheels and sometimes LMS pattern bogies.
Great review as always. I managed to get 3 brand new bachmann chocolate and cream with a buffet car for £10 each. Simon at Hornby used to work with my dad in Northampton before he got his job at the model shop, and then left there to go to Hornby. I enjoy watching the hornby program on yesterday.
Thanks for a another top notch review Sam! I have a similar rake of the Gresley and Thompson suburbans (wouldn't bother reviewing the Thompson ones they are almost identical - they were steel versions of Gresley's), and I would completely agree, they are detailed but flimsy and I'd never pay more than £25 for them (I was chuffed when I got 2 for £15 2nd hand last year). However they do look awesome under normal viewing which is what matters to me. They would look awesome running behind your BR N7 sometime.
Thank you for your video, I think your spot on with your detailed observations, are you going to add lights to them which would be a great subject for a video? Coming out at £25 to £30 is a fair price as you've identified, sprung buffers on a coach is a touch of class, just a shame that same philosophy wasn't applied to other aspects such as the lighting. With regards to the seating when the arm rests pull up at busy periods you can fit four either side. Nice to see 'corridor' suburban coaches, which is a coach pattern that I miss since I grew up with them in the early sixties.
I buy and alter secondhand (Triang/Hornby and Grafar) and heavily discounted and secondhand Hornby 6 and 8w coaches to save money. I've also started scratchbuilding and kit bashing to save money.
Great review Sam. I just bought some coronation scot coaches for around £50 but they do come with full lights and detail is good enough. It is hard to arrange long trains of coaches when they cost so much individually. Maybe there could be more bundled sets with less packaging to get the price down.
Allan. Sorry about this but beware. I had waited for these for years. I got the first run the day they came out with a new Coronation to pull them. With all 9 connected I ran them but the scale speed was very low because of the drag. It would be about 40mph. I took them all off and looked at the contacts and even oiled the wheels on the bogies to free them up. I put up with it a few more times then ran them again. The oil had dried up and all 9 were running on full power with a new loco at about 30mph. I ended up selling them. I knew I would never run it again because it just looked ridiculous.
@@maringarvanovic8011 you are right. With just three of them my mallard sometimes struggles on bends with them which is a pity. Seems worse in reverse however I will percivere for now as I really needed some blue coaches!
Well, in all honesty and being quite candid, we would mark these at around 20 GBP tops actually. These are just very meagre “quality”... The mouldings aren’t sharply tooled, flash everywhere, so many flaws with the application of glue or missing, a cheap overall look, no lights etc, etc... We just can’t imagine these to be shifted in sales for an uncanny 60 GBP..., and perhaps retailers might understand that all too well. Who in their right mind would pay such for this (pardon) crap... No problems with 20 GBP though... Very justified to call H out once again Sam! Cheerio.
One way of getting a few good 'new' - or should that be more recent? - coaches is to look at shops selling old stock, where they fins a box of old but 'new' stuff and sell it cheap. I got a Bachmann mk1 from Hattons for £22 and it was virtually brand new. The bargains are out there you just need to keep searching. I have recently turned to kitbuilding to get new coaches and also brush up on my kitbuilding skills hehe
25 quid For those coaches each is well worth it, I got a rake of 3 (composite, lavatory and brake) second hand for that price and they're my most detailed coaches. I'm just so intrigued by how detailed the bogies are with the brake shoes lining with the wheels
@@SamsTrains they're also very fragile in a lot of places, they very much need to live in their boxes when put away or you're gonna lose all the step boards on the frames and bogies!
Wheels scraping the bottom of wagons/coaches seems to be a common issue with Hornby at the moment. Some Rivarossi wagons I bought recently had this issue and were returned.
Not really the point though is it? They could charge £500 each for these coaches and make a huge profit... would that be okay with you too? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think you should try the Oxford rail mark 3 coaches, possibly a rake of BR ScotRail livered coaches. Also Bachmann do a DBSO matching the set with any class 47 pretty much looking good with them. Just an idea 💡
Hi Sam ,got one on eBay for £40 ,& I’m really pleased ,yes a bit dear but I now have brakes either end .Paint finish & finish in general first class .,but yes new a bit pricey ,now out of the latest 2023 catalogue . 😊
I honestly wonder why I didn't start this hobby earlier like I've still not got my first official controller just the shoddy train set ones and all these high prices is making it so overwhelming😂
I have a rake of 3 of these in the teak finish. The teak finish paint is a lot better quality, but whatever you do, don't slap the floor as the foot boards will probably fall off! Ihave had to reglue mine many times. The buffer springing is achieved by pushing against a piece of plastic strip.
I've got a rake of four of these things, they are ok but when being propelled over Peco short radius points at very low speed the couplers tend to override and they become buffer locked.
Hi Sam, I agree with you. A BR maroon rake has something about it. I have suburban and corridor Collets in shirtbutton livery. I love them and they are free rolling & look good. I haven't paid more than £35 per coach, and cashed in on the Hattons sale recently. I now have 12 in stock. I would like to go for some maroon & head up with a black early crest 61xx, but can't quite ,justify at the moment. I wonder what the new Dapol and Rapido coaches will be like at that £60 per unit ? As always I enjoy your reviews and willing the manufacturers to produce a fault free model! Blessings
TO ALL! There are now a variety of these coaches available on the well known auction site in brand new condition for around £35-40 if you are interested in purchasing one or more. Do take a peek. Paul. 👍
Got these and the Thompson equivalent when the 1st came out. Paid about £38 per coach which excessive thought it was worth it given the detail . The roco style alternative couplings are a nice touch and work extremely well and help keep the coaches rigid in sets. Watch the bogie steps as these are separately fitted and dont like being handled. BR crimson I think is the livery depicted here?
I just have received my harshly discounted Hornby Gresleys suburbans in BR red for around the same price as yours ! I've bough lots of Hornby coaches from Hattons recently with their hardcore discounted prices. At GBP 50/60 each, that would have been a no-go for me or, at least, just buy a rake of three and that's all. I've bought a complete roster with the discounted prices, the last ones arrived just today. Honestly, at a salesprice of GBP 25, especially with massive sales (Hattons had spent several months to liquidate his stock, and there still is some for sale by now), I can't see retailers losing money while selling them at this price. When you can see, for the same type of wagon, the price going from simple to double (GWR toad brake van between Oxford Rail and Hornby), I think GBP 25 for those coaches is the right price. There is nothing extraordinary justifying a GBP 60 price, the forthcoming Dapol GWR coaches at this price are in another dimension. Those ones are just above the Dapol old models made from Airfix molds of the 1970s, I've bough the complete set at GBP 18 each two years ago... In short, at GBP 25 each, those coaches are more than acceptable : they look good and they do the job. Over this price, it's a complete no-go.
i heard back in the day it was 10 kids (80+) or 8 Adults (64 odd) in the peak periods. On school trips three coaches were packed with three classes, teachers and parents. It was said packed in like cattle all the way from London to Brighton Beach you'd be lucky to escape being vomited on. I have seen these coaches - there were odd battery powered ones at 60 pounds 110 NZD... I'm sure your checked that they were the same as the ones you bought??? Most of the Teak ones were all pre sold.
I only bought second hand coaches until the Accurascale TransPennine Express coach pack was announced and now I have it. I am tempted by the Hornby pack as I get a 15% discount and the East Midlands HST coaches.
If you like a detailed toilet, you should get some LGB bogie coaches. The ones I have have a lifting toilet seat, despite the toilet not being visible from outside.
I think one of the sets you are eyeing up maybe LNER Coronation set. But at 9 coaches it would be very expensive. Fortunately I built a kit of them about 20 years ago for a fraction of the price, but it took a long time to build and paint 9 coaches.
In a coaches review, you want to know do the closer couplings work on 2nd radius and how the coaches fit, or do not fit, with other similar ones and locos from different manufacturers - as in coupling heights.
I've just bought a couple of secondhand (sorry, "pre-owned"...) LMS 57ft non-corridor coaches from my local model shop for under £9 each. Granted they are by Airfix and date back to 1977, but they were boxed and in excellent condition. They look the business to me.
To think I was going to start my Hornby Club membership up again. No cheap gift loco, just a small percentage off offer when buying direct from Hornby website. And no special discount is going to cover the near 3 times the price mark up!
Why so anti-plastic?The metal used by the Chinese factories has well reported longer term issues similar to those experienced with 1930s Hornby O gauge loco wheels.The plastic carriages I bought as a nipper from Triang Hornby are still good and I have just turned 60.
Interesting report. I have bought myself a Thompson brake 3rd and composite and Collett all for about the £30 which isn't unreasonable. I find paying over £30 for a brake van or wagon unreasonable. I am now highly selective about any rolling stock, or locomotive come to that, that I purchase. If it is rare and I really want it, I would pay £60 most likely as a present from one of the children. Other than that the cost of coaches should be no more than £40 for a high quality coach. I bought my Hornby LMS coaches over 10 years ago at a cost of around £20 each. I bought the inferior Bachmann Porthole coaches for £30 although only in Crimson/cream and was only able to buy a single maroon composite for £35. Other coaches in maroon weren't available. What I do wish is that Hornby would supply Mark 1 bogies with NEM sockets as a spare. I have a number of really good Hornby coaches which are let down by that awful D coupling. I could replace the bogies and run them with close couplings because they do stand up to modern coaches particularly when running.
Re ‘brake pad’ - next time you are at a Heritage railway go look at the real thing Sam! Modellers have moved on since the 1970s - we expect accurate underframe detail, including as much of the braking system as it’s feasible to model, to be attached as closely as possible to its position on the prototype, including having the brake shoes almost touching the wheels. If the shoes are touching / causing drag it suggests poor / rushed assembly.
Interesting market report on coach pricing. It is indeed remarkable how Hornby expect ~£60 and occasionally they can get to ~£25 at select retailers. On the manufacturers side; there will be a need to recoup the tooling costs which will be high. When a model is released, Hornby is going to want to ‘load’ the price to try to pay off the tooling investment ASAP. Once that is paid off, I can understand the drive to keep the price as high for as long as they can to maximise profit on the investment. They probably justify keeping it high to make customers who paid the new-tool premium feel like they didn’t get ripped off if the price subsequently drops. Also they want to make some money. The rub is Hornby seems to run close to bankruptcy time to time trying to swallow up as many competitors as possible. So I feel empire building takes precedence over value for money to the customer. Naturally as customers we are less concerned about the health of Hornby profits than the standards and price of their products. Thank heavens for smaller manufacturers like Accurascale who give Hornby some competition.
Maybe Hatton's had a clear out and sold them at a loss or with very minor profits. probably because no one was buying them at such high prices and they needed to clear out their stock space
I wasn't expecting your review conclusion on these. I don't own any of these in any livery, mainly because of their cost. When they first came out, they were treated as the bees knees by the modeling press, but with a price in the £30+ area, they were considered very expensive. So you are now considering them very average 🤷
Maybe a little high rating and price for me. I would like a not warped model when new. I think I would give them a miss and buy secondhand that I can update for the price. lights people, roof and end fittings etc I remember some my old tri-ang coaches used to warp. After years of use but.
Are these £60 coaches? These do look nice coaches, and I've been after some as well as some Thompson Suburbans, however the price has always put me off. I have 8 bachmann mk1 suburbans, 4 in crimson and 4 in maroon, and they're nowhere near this standard (one or two also have a rather extreme wobble as they run), but they're doing fine for my needs atm. I am really tempted to buy a pair of quadart kits, now I've finished the exterior of my Silver Jubilee set. However, I am hoping someone does them RTR soon...
Phoenix just bought the former Ian Kirk range, including Quadarts, I believe. Watch for them, but I personally expect them to be expensive, even just to produce though!
Hi Sam, I know you are not a train enthusiast, so can be forgiven for calling these coaches maroon. They are in fact crimson, the same as the bottom half of the BR blood and Custard. The livery dates from nationalisation to about 1957. After that they would have been maroon, which is darker, and lined yellow/black/yellow at the waist and black/ yellow above. Sorry to be pedantic, but we don’t want to confuse.
Yes. The first release was Crimson and I didn't realise that until I got my own LOL! Maroon came later at a higher price so presumably (Earliest BR) Crimson demand dropped and that resulted in the bargains?
Brought 6 of the teak ones when tbey 1st came out years ago for £36 each. Expensive at the time but is about right today, £60+ .. naah. They're lovely coaches although mine also have the wobbily foot boards half falling off. Bar that I think they are really nice.
I work in a tinplate model manufacturer and I can tell you a 60£ model is manufactured at 15£ tops, I personally never buy any model brand new from the manufacturer because of the ridiculous markup, the bureaucratic guys in those companies are swimming in money
Was this, by any chance, recorded last year? It’s just I heard you mention “earlier this year”, and as it’s still early in the year, just makes me think it’s from last year. Which isn’t a problem or anything. Just curious
Hi Sam. I too despair at the price of coaches these days - even the pre-owned ones from retailers (let alone certain auction sites). In relative terms, these are good value for money, but in absolute terms, these are still too expensive - way to go Hornby! It may be an artefact of your camera/my computer, but are the Hornby coaches really maroon? Wot, no Grade? Wot, no 4K?
Worth about a third of the price. Not bad by any means, but in need of some more quality control and higher quality materials if they want to charge that much.
I’d have a look at Accurascale Mk5s Sam . Superb coaches and real value for money compared to £60 coaches or heading to £100 if you are Bachmann ! Ah these are not £60 coaches then 😂
Hi Sam thanks for the video, obviously you bought these from Hattons did you buy them as used or new? Just querying reasoning for cost and RRP it feels like they've had a clear out of returns or not fully pristine condition models and shipped them out to retailers just to move the stock
These are a bargain at 25 but a ripoff at 60 plus. They have been around for over 10 years if I remember correctly, so I'm sure the tooling cost has been well and truly covered. I'm sure Hornby would still be making a decent profit at a more reasonable RRP of say 40 quid.
No question that £60 is a ridiculous price. Just a personal thing but I'm not paying that price for a coach no matter how good or detailed it is so my stock is all ebay or sales bargains nowadays.
If you wanna know what's a bigger rip off is those Gresley Teak coaches, the proper expensive ones by hornby, they don't have lights either and go for tones, all you get is a stunner, but a fragile one too.
Hi Sam, thank you for all the efforts you put in to continually evolve and advance your output: it must have its difficulties for you sometimes. If others eg Hornby, Bachman etc had your sincerity and endeavour towards the hobby then the hobby would be a wonderland. Many, many thanks!
It's a pleasure Stefan - I just love doing it! That's very kind of you to say,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fairly reasonable review Sam, the only issue I would have is the paint finish. I think the semi matt or maybe satin finish is more representative than gloss. Steam era coaching stock was rarely full on gloss, particularly suburban stock.
Definitely agree on the rip off factor though.
I agree , I think Sam was over critical of the matte finish. In real life red and maroon coaches lose their varnished gloss rapidly , look at preserved railway coaches for examples !
I've just invested in a set of Coronation Scot carriages most of which were at the top end of the prices mentioned. It's one of those things where it made no sense in mixing the old inaccurate models and the new ones. Having taken the hit I'm very pleased with them and as I won't be buying more my approach is to take the sting out of it by looking forward to getting a good number of years enjoyment out of them. Also, a lot of money for inaccurate but useable carriages is one thing but when the carriages are accurate at least you feel you're getting something for the money.
Hi Sam, I love your honest and unbiased revues and I agree that model trains are just getting so ridiculously expensive that I can no longer afford to buy them, even second hand still carries a huge price tag. It's such a shame because I love my trains and it's the only hobby I have. I can remember as a child model trains were aimed for the younger market, nowadays it seems that it for the adult collector and even Hornby's Railroad models seem to be getting more expensive or so it seems so heaven knows how children today can afford them. When manufacturing was moved to China we were told it was to keep the cost of the model down to make them more affordable for all (that's worked then, not) well not anymore it seems, especially when a lot of the products are just plastic as you have demonstrated in this revue. I don't know how the hobby is to survive if we just keep getting ripped off with overpriced products as I'm sure prices will continue to rise. There I've got that of my chest. Please carry on with the great revues.
Thanks for another great coaching stock review - particularly excellent as you had a decent rake and could give some well-balanced overall average scores. I do think it was a terrible move by Hornby to overcharge at first and then release a whole lot at the lower (more justifiable) price. If I'd paid £360 for a rake of six, and then saw. a month or so later, the same things going for less that half the price, I'd have been furious - and never bought anything Hornby again...
OK. To be honest I have quite a few of both Gresley and Thomson suburbans and have paid around 20 quid each for them, but only after searching them out over a couple of years.
The initial production was too expensive for me, although they sold out very quickly at the then full price. I do think they have always been worth significantly more than 20GBP.
hi sam. i am glad i managed to buy a box load of these coaches well worth the 25 pounds each from hattons. a person would be mad to spend more than that on them as they are.. i actually made mine worth hornbys rrp by fitting led light strips with pickups and a whole bunch of passengers!!!
I was thinking it would not be too hard to light them if you wanted to, but irritating to risk them at the full price though.
One important thing about the Gresley suburbans - they are actually shorter than the suburbans of all the other big four companies. I bought these because I can actually get more of them on my small layout.
Hi Sam. I agree coaches like these aren't worth the full RRp, although £25 is fair enough in my view.
One thing to bare in mind regarding model shop discounts is I believe they are intially only allowed to give a maximum 10% discount (the same as being a Hornby club member) when Hornby models are first released.
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that after 12 months they can give bigger discounts if they want.
Excellent review Sam. I managed to build a rake of 5 of the Teak finish of these coaches for around £40 each. Absolutely stunning running behind the GNR Atlantic ;)
I'm still running old early 1960's Triang Railways red suburban stock, on my layout and have been doing soo of years. It does the job just fine, for considerably less cost. For the cost of one new Hornby £60 coach, anyone can buy 3 or 4 old Triang Railways suburban coaches and, if lucky, some previous owner will have installed scale wheels and sometimes LMS pattern bogies.
Great review as always. I managed to get 3 brand new bachmann chocolate and cream with a buffet car for £10 each. Simon at Hornby used to work with my dad in Northampton before he got his job at the model shop, and then left there to go to Hornby. I enjoy watching the hornby program on yesterday.
Thanks for a another top notch review Sam!
I have a similar rake of the Gresley and Thompson suburbans (wouldn't bother reviewing the Thompson ones they are almost identical - they were steel versions of Gresley's), and I would completely agree, they are detailed but flimsy and I'd never pay more than £25 for them (I was chuffed when I got 2 for £15 2nd hand last year). However they do look awesome under normal viewing which is what matters to me.
They would look awesome running behind your BR N7 sometime.
Thank you for your video, I think your spot on with your detailed observations, are you going to add lights to them which would be a great subject for a video? Coming out at £25 to £30 is a fair price as you've identified, sprung buffers on a coach is a touch of class, just a shame that same philosophy wasn't applied to other aspects such as the lighting. With regards to the seating when the arm rests pull up at busy periods you can fit four either side. Nice to see 'corridor' suburban coaches, which is a coach pattern that I miss since I grew up with them in the early sixties.
Decent £30 coaches. Hopefully more will be produced in both teak and maroon liveries (and sold at £30 of course!)
I buy and alter secondhand (Triang/Hornby and Grafar) and heavily discounted and secondhand Hornby 6 and 8w coaches to save money. I've also started scratchbuilding and kit bashing to save money.
Great review Sam. I just bought some coronation scot coaches for around £50 but they do come with full lights and detail is good enough. It is hard to arrange long trains of coaches when they cost so much individually. Maybe there could be more bundled sets with less packaging to get the price down.
Allan. Sorry about this but beware. I had waited for these for years. I got the first run the day they came out with a new Coronation to pull them. With all 9 connected I ran them but the scale speed was very low because of the drag. It would be about 40mph. I took them all off and looked at the contacts and even oiled the wheels on the bogies to free them up. I put up with it a few more times then ran them again. The oil had dried up and all 9 were running on full power with a new loco at about 30mph.
I ended up selling them. I knew I would never run it again because it just looked ridiculous.
@@maringarvanovic8011 you are right. With just three of them my mallard sometimes struggles on bends with them which is a pity. Seems worse in reverse however I will percivere for now as I really needed some blue coaches!
At 14.27, you also have a brake shoe missing at the outward end of the bogie.
Yes. Well spotted!! ..But Sam bought the Bk3rd on Ebay. Was it new? A "second" ?
Thanks for another great review, Sam. Looks like 2023 is going to be a great year for you!
Well, in all honesty and being quite candid, we would mark these at around 20 GBP tops actually. These are just very meagre “quality”... The mouldings aren’t sharply tooled, flash everywhere, so many flaws with the application of glue or missing, a cheap overall look, no lights etc, etc... We just can’t imagine these to be shifted in sales for an uncanny 60 GBP..., and perhaps retailers might understand that all too well. Who in their right mind would pay such for this (pardon) crap... No problems with 20 GBP though... Very justified to call H out once again Sam! Cheerio.
These would be good for a custom RWS coach. I could use them for Edward's branchline.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Ahh interesting - I'd love to see that done! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
One way of getting a few good 'new' - or should that be more recent? - coaches is to look at shops selling old stock, where they fins a box of old but 'new' stuff and sell it cheap. I got a Bachmann mk1 from Hattons for £22 and it was virtually brand new. The bargains are out there you just need to keep searching. I have recently turned to kitbuilding to get new coaches and also brush up on my kitbuilding skills hehe
Thanks a lot for the tip - that's very sound advice, and blimey that is a bargain!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
25 quid For those coaches each is well worth it, I got a rake of 3 (composite, lavatory and brake) second hand for that price and they're my most detailed coaches. I'm just so intrigued by how detailed the bogies are with the brake shoes lining with the wheels
Yeah I think £25 is good - glad I didn't pay more though! Sure, the bogies are very detailed!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains they're also very fragile in a lot of places, they very much need to live in their boxes when put away or you're gonna lose all the step boards on the frames and bogies!
Wheels scraping the bottom of wagons/coaches seems to be a common issue with Hornby at the moment. Some Rivarossi wagons I bought recently had this issue and were returned.
Gotta day behind that B1 they looked well tasty despite their issues. Nice review Sam - thanks again 😎
Fun review as always Sam. But I’m glad you don’t run Hornby - I’m afraid they’d be bankrupt within a month! The first rule of business: make a profit!
Not really the point though is it? They could charge £500 each for these coaches and make a huge profit... would that be okay with you too?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think you should try the Oxford rail mark 3 coaches, possibly a rake of BR ScotRail livered coaches. Also Bachmann do a DBSO matching the set with any class 47 pretty much looking good with them. Just an idea 💡
Hi Sam ,got one on eBay for £40 ,& I’m really pleased ,yes a bit dear but I now have brakes either end .Paint finish & finish in general first class .,but yes new a bit pricey ,now out of the latest 2023 catalogue . 😊
Nice review Sam. Would love for you to check out the reasonably priced Walthers Mainline passenger cars and other rolling stock from them.
I honestly wonder why I didn't start this hobby earlier like I've still not got my first official controller just the shoddy train set ones and all these high prices is making it so overwhelming😂
I have a rake of 3 of these in the teak finish. The teak finish paint is a lot better quality, but whatever you do, don't slap the floor as the foot boards will probably fall off! Ihave had to reglue mine many times. The buffer springing is achieved by pushing against a piece of plastic strip.
Those would look excellent behind your new ES1
1:26- Was that a hint at Accurascale MK5s?
I've got a rake of four of these things, they are ok but when being propelled over Peco short radius points at very low speed the couplers tend to override and they become buffer locked.
Hi Sam, sorry I was late for this video. The close couplings are the same design used by ROCO for their European trains.
Hi Sam, I agree with you. A BR maroon rake has something about it. I have suburban and corridor Collets in shirtbutton livery. I love them and they are free rolling & look good. I haven't paid more than £35 per coach, and cashed in on the Hattons sale recently. I now have 12 in stock. I would like to go for some maroon & head up with a black early crest 61xx, but can't quite ,justify at the moment. I wonder what the new Dapol and Rapido coaches will be like at that £60 per unit ? As always I enjoy your reviews and willing the manufacturers to produce a fault free model! Blessings
Another great video review, thanks Sam. The coaches would look great traveling down the layout!😀
TO ALL!
There are now a variety of these coaches available on the well known auction site in brand new condition for around £35-40 if you are interested in purchasing one or more. Do take a peek.
Paul. 👍
Got these and the Thompson equivalent when the 1st came out. Paid about £38 per coach which excessive thought it was worth it given the detail . The roco style alternative couplings are a nice touch and work extremely well and help keep the coaches rigid in sets. Watch the bogie steps as these are separately fitted and dont like being handled. BR crimson I think is the livery depicted here?
I just have received my harshly discounted Hornby Gresleys suburbans in BR red for around the same price as yours ! I've bough lots of Hornby coaches from Hattons recently with their hardcore discounted prices. At GBP 50/60 each, that would have been a no-go for me or, at least, just buy a rake of three and that's all. I've bought a complete roster with the discounted prices, the last ones arrived just today. Honestly, at a salesprice of GBP 25, especially with massive sales (Hattons had spent several months to liquidate his stock, and there still is some for sale by now),
I can't see retailers losing money while selling them at this price. When you can see, for the same type of wagon, the price going from simple to double (GWR toad brake van between Oxford Rail and Hornby), I think GBP 25 for those coaches is the right price. There is nothing extraordinary justifying a GBP 60 price, the forthcoming Dapol GWR coaches at this price are in another dimension. Those ones are just above the Dapol old models made from Airfix molds of the 1970s, I've bough the complete set at GBP 18 each two years ago...
In short, at GBP 25 each, those coaches are more than acceptable : they look good and they do the job. Over this price, it's a complete no-go.
i heard back in the day it was 10 kids (80+) or 8 Adults (64 odd) in the peak periods. On school trips three coaches were packed with three classes, teachers and parents. It was said packed in like cattle all the way from London to Brighton Beach you'd be lucky to escape being vomited on.
I have seen these coaches - there were odd battery powered ones at 60 pounds 110 NZD... I'm sure your checked that they were the same as the ones you bought??? Most of the Teak ones were all pre sold.
Must admit it is not often we get coaches that don't derail when being reversed, unless we have worked on them.
I only bought second hand coaches until the Accurascale TransPennine Express coach pack was announced and now I have it. I am tempted by the Hornby pack as I get a 15% discount and the East Midlands HST coaches.
i got a rake of 7 of these in the same Hattons sale, personally very happy with them. look very good behind my A2/3 or K1
If you like a detailed toilet, you should get some LGB bogie coaches. The ones I have have a lifting toilet seat, despite the toilet not being visible from outside.
I think one of the sets you are eyeing up maybe LNER Coronation set. But at 9 coaches it would be very expensive. Fortunately I built a kit of them about 20 years ago for a fraction of the price, but it took a long time to build and paint 9 coaches.
I might get a few more of these, If I find them at a good price.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Awesome - good luck in the search! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think they are beautiful cars and you did a good review. I was surprised that the chassis is plastic, considering the original prices!!
In a coaches review, you want to know do the closer couplings work on 2nd radius and how the coaches fit, or do not fit, with other similar ones and locos from different manufacturers - as in coupling heights.
Hey Sam, do you have any plans to buy and review the super detailed Hornby Pullman coaches because you do not have them currently in your collection.
Yes Sam. Your Pullmans need an upgrade ;-)
The Collett models are about 8 years newer than the Greasley suburbans!
I've just bought a couple of secondhand (sorry, "pre-owned"...) LMS 57ft non-corridor coaches from my local model shop for under £9 each. Granted they are by Airfix and date back to 1977, but they were boxed and in excellent condition. They look the business to me.
These coaches were first released by Hornby around a decade ago - and the current releases are identical.
Gosh have they really been around for ten years now?
They look nice. Keep the up nice work Sam.
To think I was going to start my Hornby Club membership up again. No cheap gift loco, just a small percentage off offer when buying direct from Hornby website. And no special discount is going to cover the near 3 times the price mark up!
Why so anti-plastic?The metal used by the Chinese factories has well reported longer term issues similar to those experienced with 1930s Hornby O gauge loco wheels.The plastic carriages I bought as a nipper from Triang Hornby are still good and I have just turned 60.
2 stars for quality seems a little harsh but the fragile and poorly fixed footboards do detract significantly from the overall impression.
As another video you can mask up the windows and under carriage and spray on a satin varnish
Are you going to do a review on the Hornby LNER Coronation coaches?
I wonder if hornby board room use these grades to better their products
Interesting report. I have bought myself a Thompson brake 3rd and composite and Collett all for about the £30 which isn't unreasonable. I find paying over £30 for a brake van or wagon unreasonable. I am now highly selective about any rolling stock, or locomotive come to that, that I purchase. If it is rare and I really want it, I would pay £60 most likely as a present from one of the children. Other than that the cost of coaches should be no more than £40 for a high quality coach. I bought my Hornby LMS coaches over 10 years ago at a cost of around £20 each. I bought the inferior Bachmann Porthole coaches for £30 although only in Crimson/cream and was only able to buy a single maroon composite for £35. Other coaches in maroon weren't available.
What I do wish is that Hornby would supply Mark 1 bogies with NEM sockets as a spare. I have a number of really good Hornby coaches which are let down by that awful D coupling. I could replace the bogies and run them with close couplings because they do stand up to modern coaches particularly when running.
Re ‘brake pad’ - next time you are at a Heritage railway go look at the real thing Sam!
Modellers have moved on since the 1970s - we expect accurate underframe detail, including as much of the braking system as it’s feasible to model, to be attached as closely as possible to its position on the prototype, including having the brake shoes almost touching the wheels.
If the shoes are touching / causing drag it suggests poor / rushed assembly.
Interesting market report on coach pricing. It is indeed remarkable how Hornby expect ~£60 and occasionally they can get to ~£25 at select retailers. On the manufacturers side; there will be a need to recoup the tooling costs which will be high. When a model is released, Hornby is going to want to ‘load’ the price to try to pay off the tooling investment ASAP. Once that is paid off, I can understand the drive to keep the price as high for as long as they can to maximise profit on the investment. They probably justify keeping it high to make customers who paid the new-tool premium feel like they didn’t get ripped off if the price subsequently drops. Also they want to make some money. The rub is Hornby seems to run close to bankruptcy time to time trying to swallow up as many competitors as possible. So I feel empire building takes precedence over value for money to the customer. Naturally as customers we are less concerned about the health of Hornby profits than the standards and price of their products. Thank heavens for smaller manufacturers like Accurascale who give Hornby some competition.
Maybe Hatton's had a clear out and sold them at a loss or with very minor profits. probably because no one was buying them at such high prices and they needed to clear out their stock space
Buy accurascale mark 2s and see what there like….hell you can even buy orange ones for your CIE 121
Yay I love it when you review rolling stock
Great review and I agree with your comments.
Deffo rip off pricing as you say and like you I’m not too keen on the dull finish.
Nice one.
Neil
Nice looking coaches
They are! :D
I believe the suburban coaches were shorter to allow them to use short and possibly curved suburban station platforms.
I wasn't expecting your review conclusion on these. I don't own any of these in any livery, mainly because of their cost.
When they first came out, they were treated as the bees knees by the modeling press, but with a price in the £30+ area, they were considered very expensive. So you are now considering them very average 🤷
Sam you should do a review on a LNER teak express coachs. Not to be confused with the 4 wheeled ones.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
I agree - I might have to try some of the teaks!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They look good
and they run well at a low weight allowing for more to be pulled.
The only coach we'll if you can call it a coach was the Hornby MK3 DVT in Virgin livery it was only £70
Maybe a little high rating and price for me. I would like a not warped model when new. I think I would give them a miss and buy secondhand that I can update for the price. lights people, roof and end fittings etc I remember some my old tri-ang coaches used to warp. After years of use but.
I don't think they are warped. The running boards are fragile though.
Are these £60 coaches?
These do look nice coaches, and I've been after some as well as some Thompson Suburbans, however the price has always put me off. I have 8 bachmann mk1 suburbans, 4 in crimson and 4 in maroon, and they're nowhere near this standard (one or two also have a rather extreme wobble as they run), but they're doing fine for my needs atm.
I am really tempted to buy a pair of quadart kits, now I've finished the exterior of my Silver Jubilee set. However, I am hoping someone does them RTR soon...
Phoenix just bought the former Ian Kirk range, including Quadarts, I believe. Watch for them, but I personally expect them to be expensive, even just to produce though!
Very tempted to buy these and make a realistic Annie and Clarabel, but the price is what’s putting me off from doing it
Hi Sam, I know you are not a train enthusiast, so can be forgiven for calling these coaches maroon. They are in fact crimson, the same as the bottom half of the BR blood and Custard. The livery dates from nationalisation to about 1957. After that they would have been maroon, which is darker, and lined yellow/black/yellow at the waist and black/ yellow above. Sorry to be pedantic, but we don’t want to confuse.
Yes. The first release was Crimson and I didn't realise that until I got my own LOL! Maroon came later at a higher price so presumably (Earliest BR) Crimson demand dropped and that resulted in the bargains?
Hi Sam Nice review, Look good,( at the moment it's heat or eat, other things are on the back burner?) Thanks for what you do , All the best Brian 🙂
Awesome video today Sam some really nice coaches
Exception: Upcoming GWR B set coaches by Rapido in OO gauge.
Sometimes the retailers will have bought to many or they are just not selling etc so will do an offer.
They can’t afford to sit on dead stock.
Brought 6 of the teak ones when tbey 1st came out years ago for £36 each. Expensive at the time but is about right today, £60+ .. naah.
They're lovely coaches although mine also have the wobbily foot boards half falling off. Bar that I think they are really nice.
Yeah definitely - I'd happily pay £36 each for these with the teak finish... but getting on for double, big nah!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I now have the Kato N scale P42 in Phase VI scheme to go along with the ALC-42. They are a gorgeous pair. 😉
Oh wow that does sound awesome - congratulations!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Die Kupplung ist eine Kurzkupplung von Roco.
Yes, it is based on the Roco one, but is slightly longer. I own some of each, having modelled German H0.
Finnaly some on noticed.
I work in a tinplate model manufacturer and I can tell you a 60£ model is manufactured at 15£ tops, I personally never buy any model brand new from the manufacturer because of the ridiculous markup, the bureaucratic guys in those companies are swimming in money
A nice rake of Carriages & nice colour 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Great video thanks once again
Sam, you are a proven craftsman. Do you ever take the time to remove stray glue marks and touch up over painting problems in your workshop area. ?
Was this, by any chance, recorded last year?
It’s just I heard you mention “earlier this year”, and as it’s still early in the year, just makes me think it’s from last year. Which isn’t a problem or anything. Just curious
Hi Sam. I too despair at the price of coaches these days - even the pre-owned ones from retailers (let alone certain auction sites). In relative terms, these are good value for money, but in absolute terms, these are still too expensive - way to go Hornby! It may be an artefact of your camera/my computer, but are the Hornby coaches really maroon? Wot, no Grade? Wot, no 4K?
Worth about a third of the price. Not bad by any means, but in need of some more quality control and higher quality materials if they want to charge that much.
looks a bit like spencer’s royal coaches.
I’d have a look at Accurascale Mk5s Sam . Superb coaches and real value for money compared to £60 coaches or heading to £100 if you are Bachmann ! Ah these are not £60 coaches then 😂
Hi Sam thanks for the video, obviously you bought these from Hattons did you buy them as used or new? Just querying reasoning for cost and RRP it feels like they've had a clear out of returns or not fully pristine condition models and shipped them out to retailers just to move the stock
Its seems that the words Hornby and Ripoff go together like jam and toast
Awesome review sam
These are a bargain at 25 but a ripoff at 60 plus.
They have been around for over 10 years if I remember correctly, so I'm sure the tooling cost has been well and truly covered.
I'm sure Hornby would still be making a decent profit at a more reasonable RRP of say 40 quid.
No question that £60 is a ridiculous price. Just a personal thing but I'm not paying that price for a coach no matter how good or detailed it is so my stock is all ebay or sales bargains nowadays.
Thank You!
Are you planning on getting a pennsylvania railroad k4?
Those coaches have a lush red colour.
If you wanna know what's a bigger rip off is those Gresley Teak coaches, the proper expensive ones by hornby, they don't have lights either and go for tones, all you get is a stunner, but a fragile one too.