I found that a good solution to your problem of getting screwed cause the cards you want don't come out, can be solved for the most part by using the 3 player set up even if playing with just 2 players. It makes downstairs rooms a bit more powerful, because of the larger number of rooms, but other then that i found it to be much better also because the 2 player setup results in games which are way too short. :)
I wonder if the bonus issue could be mitigated by marking some tiles a "2 player only", with a reasonable spread (and perhaps some bonus cards too), or even divvying them up into equitable sets labeled A, B, etc. ("for two players choose two letters"). I look forward to getting a copy to fiddle with…
I think one of the best pros of this game in contrast to Suburbia (and the thing you consider when choosing either one) is the Master Builder. The fact that its a concern now about how many is bounced around with the players and that there is ways to make there be more money in the group and less its a new strategic element. And that the Master Builder gets to price things really makes the player interaction higher and that is important to me since with Eurogames sometimes it can be a little like golf where the player interaction is quite low. So the Master Builder, for me, makes it the better game. And I think whether you like the MB or dislike it is what makes you decide on buy this game or Surburbia.
Rahdo, the real 19th century King Ludwig II of Bavaria (who built the castle on the front of the box -- Neuschwanstein Castle) is generally considered by historians to be mad. So, the designers didn't really come up with that idea. But, it does seem to fit nicely.
It's really hard to imagine they were half-way through designing the game mechanics and then said: "Man these end results look rather weird, let's find a new theme to fit that." and then redesigned everything as castle rooms. But who knows. Maybe that's just what happened
I doubt Ted came up with the "mad" king to cover the fact that the castles are crazy. Afterall, the game's theme is based on the "mad" king Ludwig II and his ostentatious castles. No theme bending required.
and i would bet money he started with the theme of making castles (with no king attached), and once the design led to the creation of crazy nonsensical castles, they decided to add Ludwig as a theme to cover it. BUt only one man can solve the debate! :)
***** I'd love to take that bet. Is it coincidence that there is a mad king known for building crazy castles at exorbitant costs that just so happens to fit a game design where you build crazy castles? Or is it far more likely that it was the inspiration? Maybe Ted was building crazy dungeons at first, but I'm certain that the concept of castles was coupled with good old Ludwig from the get-go. It's the way that you hypothesize that he added "mad" to cover a potential thematic problem that just strikes me as logical run-around. As you say, *nearly* only one man knows, and it doesn't really matter anyway.
I wonder if the potential for the bad luck in the secret cards that Richard mentioned about could be mitigated by a simple house rule. Instead of the two players taking two cards each at the start, why not each player takes four cards each, then discard one at the end of the first two turns. You will still end up with two cards, but you would have some control over the cards you end up with by the end of turn 3. You could even discard after turns 3 and 4 to get a little bit deeper in the game and have an even better idea of what you might need. Just a thought.
Kevin Ryan actually, iirc, you take 3 and keep 2, so they do something similar. and when you get new ones as bonuses, you get to draw 2 and keep one. but still, i've found you're often put into a situation where you don't know if either of the bonus cards you have to choose from will be achievable, so you just have to guess, in 2p
I was wondering if maybe playing with the bonuses revealed when playing 2 player might help balance it out. It doesn't add any detriment to the person getting screwed (them knowing you need circles and there are none doesn't hurt you), but it does make life harder on the lucky person because now you know what they are going for and can make the pricing difficult. Not a complete solve, but helps temper the swinginess. Just a thought.
In a two player game, could you take out the player-specific bonuses so everyone has the same opportunities and one person can't be screwed over by the luck of the draw?
This looks much more like an acutal puzzle compared to Suburbia. Which is why I might like it more! Definitely going to check this out at Essen! Btws, Richard.. are you going to do a Essen preview 'geeklist scrollthrough' like you did last year? (And I think for Gen Con too)
The problem with not getting any rooms matching your secret objective could be solved by keeping all 3 cards from start and both bonus. But in the end you only get to score 3 of the 5 cards. This give a higher chance of not getting screwed, your opponent can still get crazy Lucky but that is always a problem in all games.
+Gustav Alfredsson Well, not in all games. You know, there are games with a low, or even inexistant, luck factor involved ( e.g. Caylus). Regarding this Mad Ludwing's Castles board game, I played it once with 3 more players and it was a blast! Love + love it!
Thanks Rahdo. I really appreciate your videos (have seen at least 20-30 of them). Actually, I proclaim you "responsible" for at least 2 or 3 of my recent buys :-)
Great review, other than the obvious missed rule that you mentioned (you still gave a great sense of how the game plays). I was wondering if there is any reason, other than game length, that you couldn't play all the tiles and cards in 2 players. I'm not sure how the game is balanced yet. I imagine these 2 mega castles that score bucket loads of points (have to get a dump truck to haul all those points).
***** What about something like this... You could start with a few more cards in the deck (the actual number more to be determined). On each turn, the master builder draws 1 more card than the number of rooms that need to actually be brought out, and discards one (his choice). That way you could go still go through the deck a little faster (to not bog down the game), and have a little more choice as to which size of rooms come out. This could help with the luck of some of the bonuses. Plus, I like the idea of adding 1 or 2 more room tiles to each stack as well.
Richard, Everytime I see you do the Final thoughts like this. I thing you look like a muppet. Now I love he muppets, but because your elbows are obscured by table the way you move them looks like someone is under the table working your arms. LOL. I love the reviews and am still working my way up to the present. Keep up the good work!
Do you think the game's thematics and messy, oddball tile laying would feel as fun if the name of the game were, "The Castles of King Ludwig" instead? It is going to take a LOT to one-up Suburbia. Yes, that wasn't the intent with this game, but then again, why copy the template once again?
TyphoidBryan I could have stated it better, but my supposition is that the designer started out simply designing a game where you build a castle for a king... a nameless king, because it was all about the gameplay mechanisms and the room types. And he found it to be fun, but also that the castles tended to turn out kind of crazy. So when naming the game, to explain the fact that he'd made a game where nonsensical castles were made, he decided to theme it on Mad King Ludwig, because that made sense.
Funny enough the German name for the game is Die Schlösser des König Ludwig. He actually has the byname "der Märchenkönig" (engl. the fairytale king) for his fairytale like castles. As a matter of fact I have been to all three of his actual castles and while it starts rather magical with Neuschwanstein (which inspired the Disney castle's), it get's weirder (like the grotto that is part of Linderhof which let to the first bavarian electricity plant and the invention of artificial indigo) and then you can visit Herrenchiemsee which heavily inspired by Versailles and the half-finished parts show what massive construction work had to be undertaken to create such a place. Also the bath tub that is basically a small pool and had to be filled with hot water over the course of hours... (or was that at Linderhof?) Another fun fact: Ludwig Koopa is officially named after Ludwig van Beethoven but his hairstyle implies that they actually had Ludwig II in mind.
I've got to be honest, I found this to be a poor version of Suburbia. I found the master builder section to be too AP inducing, some players were taking waaaay too long to take their turn which made it frustrating and annoying.
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
I found that a good solution to your problem of getting screwed cause the cards you want don't come out, can be solved for the most part by using the 3 player set up even if playing with just 2 players. It makes downstairs rooms a bit more powerful, because of the larger number of rooms, but other then that i found it to be much better also because the 2 player setup results in games which are way too short. :)
good idea!
I wonder if the bonus issue could be mitigated by marking some tiles a "2 player only", with a reasonable spread (and perhaps some bonus cards too), or even divvying them up into equitable sets labeled A, B, etc. ("for two players choose two letters").
I look forward to getting a copy to fiddle with…
I think one of the best pros of this game in contrast to Suburbia (and the thing you consider when choosing either one) is the Master Builder. The fact that its a concern now about how many is bounced around with the players and that there is ways to make there be more money in the group and less its a new strategic element. And that the Master Builder gets to price things really makes the player interaction higher and that is important to me since with Eurogames sometimes it can be a little like golf where the player interaction is quite low.
So the Master Builder, for me, makes it the better game. And I think whether you like the MB or dislike it is what makes you decide on buy this game or Surburbia.
I have been to a couple of castles King Ludwig built in Austria (including the one on the cover of the box), and they are indeed insanely laid out!
If you visited Neuschwanstein then you were in Germany ;)
touche! It was right at the border wasnt it? :)
+eddieharr close, yeah. I don't recall how close (I was there maybe1987) but definitely far South Bavaria. Such a beautiful place!
Rahdo, the real 19th century King Ludwig II of Bavaria (who built the castle on the front of the box -- Neuschwanstein Castle) is generally considered by historians to be mad. So, the designers didn't really come up with that idea. But, it does seem to fit nicely.
It's really hard to imagine they were half-way through designing the game mechanics and then said: "Man these end results look rather weird, let's find a new theme to fit that." and then redesigned everything as castle rooms. But who knows. Maybe that's just what happened
I doubt Ted came up with the "mad" king to cover the fact that the castles are crazy. Afterall, the game's theme is based on the "mad" king Ludwig II and his ostentatious castles. No theme bending required.
and i would bet money he started with the theme of making castles (with no king attached), and once the design led to the creation of crazy nonsensical castles, they decided to add Ludwig as a theme to cover it. BUt only one man can solve the debate! :)
***** I'd love to take that bet. Is it coincidence that there is a mad king known for building crazy castles at exorbitant costs that just so happens to fit a game design where you build crazy castles? Or is it far more likely that it was the inspiration? Maybe Ted was building crazy dungeons at first, but I'm certain that the concept of castles was coupled with good old Ludwig from the get-go. It's the way that you hypothesize that he added "mad" to cover a potential thematic problem that just strikes me as logical run-around.
As you say, *nearly* only one man knows, and it doesn't really matter anyway.
I wonder if the potential for the bad luck in the secret cards that Richard mentioned about could be mitigated by a simple house rule. Instead of the two players taking two cards each at the start, why not each player takes four cards each, then discard one at the end of the first two turns. You will still end up with two cards, but you would have some control over the cards you end up with by the end of turn 3. You could even discard after turns 3 and 4 to get a little bit deeper in the game and have an even better idea of what you might need. Just a thought.
Kevin Ryan actually, iirc, you take 3 and keep 2, so they do something similar. and when you get new ones as bonuses, you get to draw 2 and keep one. but still, i've found you're often put into a situation where you don't know if either of the bonus cards you have to choose from will be achievable, so you just have to guess, in 2p
***** Ah, that makes sense! Thanks, Richard! By the way, thanks so much for your videos. You make the hobby more fun for me!
I was wondering if maybe playing with the bonuses revealed when playing 2 player might help balance it out. It doesn't add any detriment to the person getting screwed (them knowing you need circles and there are none doesn't hurt you), but it does make life harder on the lucky person because now you know what they are going for and can make the pricing difficult. Not a complete solve, but helps temper the swinginess. Just a thought.
In a two player game, could you take out the player-specific bonuses so everyone has the same opportunities and one person can't be screwed over by the luck of the draw?
This looks much more like an acutal puzzle compared to Suburbia. Which is why I might like it more! Definitely going to check this out at Essen!
Btws, Richard.. are you going to do a Essen preview 'geeklist scrollthrough' like you did last year? (And I think for Gen Con too)
Tokikosworld yup, i'll likley be doing one sometime in october :)
The problem with not getting any rooms matching your secret objective could be solved by keeping all 3 cards from start and both bonus. But in the end you only get to score 3 of the 5 cards. This give a higher chance of not getting screwed, your opponent can still get crazy Lucky but that is always a problem in all games.
+Gustav Alfredsson Well, not in all games. You know, there are games with a low, or even inexistant, luck factor involved ( e.g. Caylus). Regarding this Mad Ludwing's Castles board game, I played it once with 3 more players and it was a blast! Love + love it!
You should come to game-o-rama in atlanta for memorial day weekend
Thnx for these vids tho! Love this game and it's been played so much at our table lately. :)
Thanks Rahdo. I really appreciate your videos (have seen at least 20-30 of them). Actually, I proclaim you "responsible" for at least 2 or 3 of my recent buys :-)
Great review, other than the obvious missed rule that you mentioned (you still gave a great sense of how the game plays). I was wondering if there is any reason, other than game length, that you couldn't play all the tiles and cards in 2 players. I'm not sure how the game is balanced yet. I imagine these 2 mega castles that score bucket loads of points (have to get a dump truck to haul all those points).
yeah, i guess you could increase the length by increasing the number of cards... i can't imagine a downside... :)
***** What about something like this... You could start with a few more cards in the deck (the actual number more to be determined). On each turn, the master builder draws 1 more card than the number of rooms that need to actually be brought out, and discards one (his choice). That way you could go still go through the deck a little faster (to not bog down the game), and have a little more choice as to which size of rooms come out. This could help with the luck of some of the bonuses. Plus, I like the idea of adding 1 or 2 more room tiles to each stack as well.
Horace Watkins cool idea :)
Richard,
Everytime I see you do the Final thoughts like this. I thing you look like a muppet. Now I love he muppets, but because your elbows are obscured by table the way you move them looks like someone is under the table working your arms. LOL.
I love the reviews and am still working my way up to the present. Keep up the good work!
+Christos Ekimogloy it's time to play the music, it's time to light the lights... :)
Oh wow. You totally can't unsee that.
You don't use all cards in a 4-player game. There are 50 cards in the gamebox but only 44 are used in a 4-p game. :)
Do you think the game's thematics and messy, oddball tile laying would feel as fun if the name of the game were, "The Castles of King Ludwig" instead?
It is going to take a LOT to one-up Suburbia. Yes, that wasn't the intent with this game, but then again, why copy the template once again?
TyphoidBryan I could have stated it better, but my supposition is that the designer started out simply designing a game where you build a castle for a king... a nameless king, because it was all about the gameplay mechanisms and the room types. And he found it to be fun, but also that the castles tended to turn out kind of crazy. So when naming the game, to explain the fact that he'd made a game where nonsensical castles were made, he decided to theme it on Mad King Ludwig, because that made sense.
Funny enough the German name for the game is Die Schlösser des König Ludwig.
He actually has the byname "der Märchenkönig" (engl. the fairytale king) for his fairytale like castles.
As a matter of fact I have been to all three of his actual castles and while it starts rather magical with Neuschwanstein (which inspired the Disney castle's), it get's weirder (like the grotto that is part of Linderhof which let to the first bavarian electricity plant and the invention of artificial indigo) and then you can visit Herrenchiemsee which heavily inspired by Versailles and the half-finished parts show what massive construction work had to be undertaken to create such a place. Also the bath tub that is basically a small pool and had to be filled with hot water over the course of hours... (or was that at Linderhof?)
Another fun fact: Ludwig Koopa is officially named after Ludwig van Beethoven but his hairstyle implies that they actually had Ludwig II in mind.
I've got to be honest, I found this to be a poor version of Suburbia. I found the master builder section to be too AP inducing, some players were taking waaaay too long to take their turn which made it frustrating and annoying.
***** i was worried about that, but it turned out to not be too bad for us. i can see it being much worse with more than 2 though