The state of Social Deduction games...
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2023
- I think we need more trouble in those terrorist towns.
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Today I talk about social deduction video games that I like or don't like, among us, deceit, Project winter, Trouble in terrorist town (TTT), Jackbox push the button, and among us VR all come to mind. Among us VR definitely look more fun than base among us or Trouble in Terrorist Town because it has proximity chat, I really want to get Pavlov VR to try playing Trouble in Terrorist Town with my friends in VR. Among us died and so did all the other social deduction games, and there are 4 reasons why. Friends, today I’m calling an EMERGENCY MEETING to answer one of life's most important questions: Is Red SUS?! I know we’ve all pondered these questions as we’ve played round after round of Among Us and no one could come to a definitive answer, but today I will! I’m here to prove once and for all that red is the most sus color in Among Us!
This video is protected under fair use, no copyright intended. Please don't sue me... 
Игры
![TRASH or PASS! Eminem ( Houdini ) [REACTION!!!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cB1WrZcMwMc/mqdefault.jpg)
I DON'T HATE TOWN OF SALEM. Good god your community is fucking annoying. I literally mentioned ONE thing I think it could improve upon, the gameplay gets a little stale. Stop spamming me pls and thank you.
What are "strandlikes" games? 0_0
Social Deduction Games?
Hah,
REAL Gamers play SCP CB Multiplayer and Secret Lab, the, ermmm idk what kind of genre it is, but it's cool
You shoulve talked about the Hide N Seek Gamemode its really fun
I've played a lot of forum social deduction over the past around 15 years, and my biggest issue with a lot of these ToS like games is that the social deduction aspect is extremely weak. Having everybody be a power role and having the deduction be almost entirely on determining who's lying about their actions makes the game focus more on logic and luck than actual deduction. At least with Throne of Lies before it became a total joke, they tried to fix this so you couldn't just confirm people's actions and vote out everybody that's the odd man out. Very few things confirmed somebody as town and the risk of conversation meant they weren't confirmed for long.
This is far more engaging than playing as a bad guy in ToS and just hoping that my fakeclaim I had to make up random results for wouldn't get me caught the moment it's my turn to claim my role.
One of us in this comment section loves among us.
There is an imposter amo-
The fact that #4: "Appeal to children" has become a legitimate strategy not only in this genre but in the horror genre is disgusting to me.
#4 is now pretty much the entire """AAA""" playbook.
That's a bit weird to me tbh.
Don't know how it's like in other countries, but here in Brasil there is a pretty wildspread children's game called "Detetive" (Detective) that is pretty much this type of game but has been around at least since the 50s considering my grandma used to play it too.
So like... How can it be disgusting to appeal to children when this has already been a childhood game for generations?
@@rafaelcastor2089 I think that the OP means with "disgusting" is the appel to children in horror games, like FNAF or Poppy Playtime
Tbh the horror he genre deserved it
@@arnox4554 AAAs are usually stuff like elden ring, the only exception I can think of is botw
In my opinion one of the biggest reasons Among us blew up rather than another social deduction game is its simplicity. It's perfect for casual players who have no experience with video games, it's incredibly easy to understand and doesn't require any skill when it comes to gameplay. The tradeoff here is that a game this simple will drop hard once people get bored of it which is inevitable.
Among us requires skill though?
@@Jpeg_skeleton
Not when it comes to the gemeplay mechanics. Walking around, clicking the murder button, venting, tasks etc.
Even a kid in kindergarten could do it easily. The part that does require skill is the deception and mind games but that's not directly part of the gameplay, it's something you can be good at without being good at video games.
@@mariostoynov gameplay wise yes but the mindgame part of it is extremely fun especially when it comes to trying to fake tasks or position yourself well to be able to kill but also not be overly suspicious or as crew trying to find out the killers tricks and habits, tasks are just there so that you split up and while better tasks would be nice they are just meant to be simple distractions so the impostor can find you when you are split apart and shapeshifter makes it even better.
Idk I just really love mindgames and so I may be biased but I think among us does have skill needed and while better tasks would be good it can be excused by the fun of deception and the fun of finding holes in people's stories.
he basically said that in point 4
@@Jpeg_skeletonYou have to make house rules, because any group that's played the game, understands that anyone that's crew can just follow very basic rules and win every game.
All crew sticks together, stopping at each task for any players to complete it.
Congratulations, now the impostors will always lose.
The easiest way to win is to remove the entire social deduction from the game. You need to have a group that's willing to not group up, to allow the impostors to even have a chance to win.
“They made bureaucracy a video game.”
Papers Please is a masterpiece, thank you.
the worst concept, made into a hell of a fun game
@@DanielBrazRPM that's Lucas Pope's whole thing surprisingly fun paperwork simulators just look at his other major game return of the Obra Dinn which is a game about doing insurance paperwork in the 1800s and yet it is the single best murder mystery game I have ever played
@@brittlekneesmgee3674 And "The Republia Times" is literally all about just being an editor, but is also a very good game.
my main issue with social deduction games, are that no one wants to be social in them. it's like the people who play it want to actively avoid talking. you walked towards someone, so now you're accused and instantly voted out without even the time for a rebuttal.
Exactly why I dislike these sorts of games. Your experience HEAVILY relies on other players and it makes it very hit or miss. Most of time you either have to gather some friends to play or spend more time looking for actually decent teammates than actually playing the game itself
This is why I play among us with god damn Voice Chat, cause if I don't either nobody will talk or they'll say the most random stuff ever
The simplicity of Among Us was arguably one of the best parts of it. I wouldn't say Among Us was even created to appeal to children, and that's super clear when you look at the history of its development. Another thing, Among Us just had a ton of style, so yeah.
It was easy for anyone to understand
Said this in my own comment but yea, saying Among Us is popular appeals to children doesn't seem fair since it seems to be much more focused on appealing to the Flash Generation than to Current Children.
Honestly, a lot of games that do appeal to children werent targeted towards children to begin with.
Like I dont think a game like fornight was targeted towards children for example, its just that a lot of kids ended up liking it so it became associated with that. And maybe since they its tried more to appeal to kids, but it wasnt originally that way.
And the same goes for games like among us. It just happened to appeal to kids and thats why people associate it with kids.
Pretty much any simple fun game that's extremely easy to play is going to appeal to kids because kids arent going to want to play complicated difficult games. They're going to want to play games they can win regardless of their skill level because of how much chaos or randomness is in the game. A FFA like fortnight anybody can make top 10 if you hide the entire game, its trivial to do no matter how bad you are. Or a game like among us, you can just randomly throw out accusations or kill people randomly and sometimes youll just get lucky and win regardless of your skill level. This makes it appealing to kids.
The games arent designed to appeal to kids, its just that i think simple games generally appeal to kids by their nature of being simple.
Among us didn’t have a ton of style. It had the least style possible. It was just a bit shit
Yeah the simplicity and accessibility of among us is what made it popular.
One mention about the Among Us multiplayer system. IIRC The developer Innersloth did not expect the game to blow up as it did. In fact, the game started without an online multiplayer system and it was meant to be played with your friends in person.
The matchmaking system was their rushed attempt to make it playable online, which was done poorly.
The matchmaking is even more horrendous in 2022/2023 since half the lobbies are just named "h4rnygirl" or something along these lines and you'll immediately get kicked if you have the audacity to ask the host to start the game instead of getting groomed by them
@@robob4465 well if the host is trying to groom you do you really want to play among us with them?
@@jimskywaker4345 I don't care either way just give me a lobby where 5 people don't leave at the very start
yeah the matchmaking was ok when it first started cause all the adults joined in one map since u had to pay for it and kids couldn’t afford it. now it’s a bit different
they were in the middle of making a sequel when the game blew up in popularity, and they had to make this impossible decision between abandoning the playerbase with a new game, or trying to update a very old, amateur codebase with new ideas and fix any bugs that come from that friction.
"Trouble in terrorist town is ground zero for social deduction games"
The boardgame mafia: am I a fucking joke to you?
I'm sure he meant social deduction *video* games
@@finesseandstyle Pretty sure Space Station 13 predates TTT.
@@aze94 I'm sure he meant *modern* social deduction *video* games
@@finesseandstyle There's still a good number of those! SS13 probably being the most popular (and to this date the most complex and interesting, I'd argue)
@@aze94 I wouldn't really say SS13 is a social deduction game at its core. (Well, I can only speak for modern SS13. Not sure how it was in the olden days.)
"TTT is the basis for all social deduction games"
Mafia: "Am I a joke to you?"
Most are based on Mafia , and Mafia is where a lot of issues come from , not ttt. In Mafia, it's a whole lot of discussion and pointing and not much else. ttt is alot more hands on with how dealing with traitors since you have to kill them yourself instead just voting them off.
i think werewolf might have been even older
@@jimskywaker4345 Mafia was the first, made in 1986, but if you read the Wikipedia page for it it does say it was also known as werewolf so I think it’s likely it was often flavored that way even then
there are lots of good sites to play mafia on, like mafiascum
i love town of salem tbh, its the perfect game to play when just chilling and the fact that it doesnt have too many players means you dont meet lobotomized monkeys too much
ToS is a game I personally suck at but still play because it’s just fun. I want to improve so I don’t lose every single time I’m Evil but my tiny monkey brain can’t hold anything more than two dog images in my memory at a time
speak for yourself, every game ive played has like 3 leavers and at least 1 townie doing an impressively good job at looking like an evil role
@@DodgeThatAttack Coven All Any is where the magic happens, classic always has some questionable things happen
@@HotlineMilwaukee word 😂
Ya, I don't fully agree with his point that social deduction games need "video game" aspects. Mafia works perfectly fine without, idk, shooting people with nerf guns or whatever.
Barotrauma's traitor mode is still my favourite social deduction game simply because the objective of the traitor is randomised each time. So you both don't know *who* the traitor is *or* what they're trying to do. It really adds to it all.
I think a major flaw of the Barotrauma traitor mode is that it requires both parties to collectively follow the intended gameplay of the mode. It's similar to Among Us in that unless you're playing with a trusted group of people, you are going to meet traitors in public lobbies who just put 4 fuel rods in the reactor and call it a day.
Space Station 13 was a heavy inspiration for Barotrauma, you might like it.
@@TooFewSecrets I was just about to mention SS13! Pain in the ass to play, but really cool shit. Glory to Cargonia!
@@NoobsofFredo SS14 on steam is a lot easier to play
@@Ben_of_Milam_Music Huh, hadn't realized that existed. I'll have to take a look!
Town of Salem is very engaging, It doesn't need additional fluff because the amount of roles and actions that can take place each night is enough to keep you thinking
I'd probably have dropped it a long ass time ago if it required additional gameplay segments between voting sessions. Keeping up can get hard enough as it is with the massive info dumps days can turn into.
The discussion period was too fast for my liking
It's basically langrensha, the chinese ultimate social deduction game.
used to be an extremely active town of salem player. loved the game BECAUSE it felt like i was being smart and minigames or whatever the fuck wouldve been such a fucking chore that wouldnt add to that
@@doomyboi Yeah, TOS has this pretty cool thing called a chatlog. It only takes a few seconds to click someone at night, to which you have almost a minute to go through everyone's messages and claims. You can also filter based on player, and you know, read the chat during the day. TOS isn't really that hard to play or keep up with, you just have to learn to skim through stuff that doesn't matter and since everyone formats stuff the exact same way it's easy to see when someone posts a will.
I remember playing Deceit years back. My favorite perk was detective because it let you see when exactly the blood was drank and gave you the opportunity to deduce who was operating in that area.
it's now part of the game, everybody has it. Although they made the drinking sound much lower. I recommend trying it again it's pretty different but still good in my opinion
I recall hearing somewhere that Innersloth didn’t even want to add online matchmaking originally because of it being designed specifically for playing in the same room. This isn’t meant to exude this, it’s just a possible reason that the matchmaking is so bad.
it's not like they had 4 years to make it better since the game released.
I'm gonna complain about a game that mid because that will obviously make it better.
It sucks playing in the same room, because you have to sit in dead silence. in-game audio cues outs imposters, and talking outside discussion without limit breaks the game in numerous ways.
@@InfamousGameplaysPT and a work force of like 3 people working on multiple games
@@silverpotato4272 valheim was developed by 5 people, stardew valley was developed by 1 person. That's not an excuse, the game was pretty much in the same state for like 2 years, they only made changes when the game got popular, and even then, the changes were too little and came too late.
I feel like Social Deduction board games such as One Night/Werewolf, Coup, Cryptid, Avalon/Quest, and Unfathomable are better than most Social Deduction video games
Yeah, this is what I'm sayin'! The in person games are just so much better than the online ones
Werewolf/Mafia is so much fun especially the rules in my home 😂
We play in groups of 15-20 people (sometimes hitting 50. Large extended family) with 2-3 killers
An emphasis on everyone play by the rules b/c cheating ruins the fun
Multiple roles like detective/doctor
So much fun
Yes, Coup is a must have. I've also playe One Night Super Villians a couple times and it is really fun.
of course! in person is always better. Also, nice pfp
And Secret Hitler! So good
Most fun I ever had with Among Us was at a small party. We had about 10 people, so we all just played it on our phones. Was a lot of fun to yell eat each other and actually have to have a poker face. Definitely the closest I’ve ever gotten to something like Mafia or Werewolf.
Not surprising, considering that was explicitly the experience it was designed for! It's quite good at what it was originally built to be.
havnt played werewolf in years
Ima be honest. Town Of Salem is fun because its just voting and stuff. No extra stuff you get to focus on either figuring out who is good vs bad or attempting to reach your goal. The abilities help prevent sitting still and doing nothing or they help quicken the pace.
I feel like First Class Trouble (a social deduction game) fits all your requirements.
1. Smart Match Making -- FCT pairs you up with 6 people based on Language and Cross-Play preferences
2. Needs engaging gameplay (long section)-- FCT needs you to either find 3 keycards per level to open an elevator to the next level while dealing with various hazards; (fire, water pits, airlocks, freezers, pools) and working together to overcome them (helping extinguish fires [some require 2 people to extinguish aswell], keeping a bridge activated so friend(s) can cross, or holding the airlock or freezer door open so you friends dont die) all while keeping the total oxygen from running out so you can all breathe.
There are also crew logs which give you information so you can deduct who is good and who isnt, only you can see them until the meeting before every level in which the game rolls a dice and determines if a log should be revealed, and if so which one (incase multiple logs are found) which encourages lying but at a risk.
Honestly the gameplay is a bit hard to sum up so I'd recommend watching some YT videos or getting it on Epic games store (it's free right now)
3. Keep traitors involved -- Personoids (traitors) are supposed to either kill all residents (crew) or make it to the final level and 'help shut down' C.A.I.N (evil robot AI). if even one makes it to the end, Personoids will win. Personoids can also drain total oxygen when sabotaging but you can see the total oxygen meter go down; if the crew is paying attention they'll know. This encourages smart gameplay. Personoids also cant kill together then normal way (2 players can kill a player together if one holds and the other chokes, if both players attempting to kill are the personoids it will make the killing sounds but it wont actually kill the resident) so they must use Overdose Syringes which you must sneakily grab (out of the big cylindrical containers) which takes a few seconds to grab. You can also push players into hazards and throw objects to push them from afar.
All of these factors combined created a situation where Personoids must work together to do some Hitman style takedowns.
For instance, I was playing with 5 of my friends on one of the second levels (Resort, aka pool map) I was a personoid with a friend and we both had OD-Syringes. 3 people were next to a pool, so I shoved one in (so he'd drown) and then we syringed the other 2 in sync.
If this is too long -- Engaging game on large ship in space with evil robots and funny moments that isnt marketed towards 10 year olds.
Also the game has ragdoll physics, so ya'know.
The best part of all of it is that the rounds don't last 40 or so minutes which is one of the fatal flaws project winter has
heavily agree, been having a blast with this game ever since I got it
It's free on epic at the moment
this game is awesome, the only problem is that playing with randoms (at least for me) isn't fun at all. Most of them are either quiet or if they'll be parasenoid they will just straight up not do anything only to get to cain and win the game this way
@@kowal2486 yeah it'll probably be that way for a while until the people from Epic start learning how to play. As a resident though, you can really take advantage of inactive personoids by looting all the scanners in the airlocks on the second floor as well as the passenger logs to pretty easily find them all out
My fav social deduction games were assassin creed online where you hunt and are hunted but you have to figure out where your target is and they can even hide among npc’s, transform leave your sight and become part of the crowd.
This isn’t exactly “social deduction game” but I got reminded lol
Black flags was peak imo
man everyone hated this mutiplayer. but love it so much lol. wish I could still play it. I was a beast in the end
@@verycoolguy0 I loved brotherhoods cause that was my first and I was so good in later games
Black Flag was sooo much fun but didn’t have my fav character the Barber
@XxcoolsagexX oh damn i forgot about brotherhood multi-player. Didn't play it much but I loved the plague doctor dude.
My favorite social deduction game is Dread Hunger. It's a group survival game with two traitors. Since it is in the artic the traitors have a harder time surviving out in the wilderness due to warmth and food (though possible).
It is a difficult game though, even without the traitors and that means the traitors usually expose themselves at the most dire times and usually wins. Also the matchmaking is usually all in Chinese servers.
Same bro but i quit cus of the chinese servers and i think its kind of dying right now
Completely agree with you on Project Winter. I loved it back when I got it about 2 years ago, but now I feel like any fun got removed after people with over 1k hours thought it was too easy catching people who play casually
this is the bane of social deduction games. People get too good at it and casuals don't have a chance then they often dumb it down to make it easier for casuals and the old players leave.
@@k0lpA Im really feeling this. Recently tried to play Blood on the Clocktower at my local gaming cafe. As a newb, all the experienced players rolled their eyes at most of what I did. I misplayed roles or misunderstood what I was supposed to do.
And if I made my own fun by lying or asking silly questions, they hated it even more.
Alright, gatekeepers, I have been gatekept. Farewell!
Blood on the clocktower. Fucking great board game. All social deduction board games of the past 10 years have been fucking excellent.
Based
I help run a university social deduction society and we've recently (2 months) started playing BOTC at some session.
Ugh I do not enjoy it, and having spoken to some others they don't too. It can be fun but only for the first few times you play it.
Custom mafia/werewolf/salem whatever you call it games are often way more fun with far more simplicity
Secret Hitler is also a heck lot of fun. Granted, I've only played it with 5 players, but it's still awesome.
been playing that for about a year now, its really fun, but as nice as the new app they made is, for some reason they refuse to add certain fun features to it that the old app had, that made the game more fun
@@comma_thingy Are you using the same script every game, or changing scripts every so often? What about writing your own scripts? That might fix some of your problems. Sure, playing nothing but Trouble Brewing over and over can get boring, but that's why there are over 150 characters and counting!
Imagine saying "Social Deduction Games started with TTT" when Werewolf/Mafia is RIGHT THERE (1986)
👴🏻
Video game
Yeah, I found it really hard to take this video seriously.
The reason there's lots of social deduction videos that are focused more on the social deduction part than the video game part is because they AREN'T inspired by some mini game in Gary's mod.
@@zacktheslayer6564 The ship.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure I played mafia clone in starcraft2 arcade in 2010.
Also Among Us is a stright up simplified clone of space station 13 (from 2003). Absolutely clueless video lol.
The video just stopped loading right at 1:17 when he was complaining about lag, I thought it was a joke.
One of my favourite social deduction games has gotta be SS13 (Space Station 13), not a very popular game, but one where every single person has roles to fulfill in a sort of RP environment on the station, be it anything from your regular security you'd expect in a TTT like game, to a cook, and people do have hunger, so the role is essential gameplay wise too.
And for the antagonists (aka traitors in most games) there's plenty of roles for them too. There's your standard traitor role, where you have a few specific tasks to carry out, like killing specific players, stealing certain items, etc. And then you also get some wacky shit, like a space cult writing messages in blood to perform rituals and spells, eventually trying to sacrifice themselves to summon their lord and destroy the station. Favourite one has gotta be nuke operatives though, instead of being stealthy like most other traitors, the station gives a warning about them at the start of the round, and everyone on the station starts arming themselves to the teeth to prepare for the attack to try and prevent them from planting a nuke on the station. That or the blob, which turns the game into an RTS for the antagonist :D
GET THAT FUKKEN DISK!
eyy i was looking in comments for ss13 mentions, great game despite the *steep* learning curve and broken nature of byond
@@candycaneannihalator2708 Oh man tell me about it, I remember fumbling around trying to figure out the controls for like at least my first 10 rounds lmao. Haven't played the game in a year or two, but god, even watching videos of it I can feel the hotkey memory in my brain :P
@@candycaneannihalator2708 I wouldn't call it a learning curve. I'd say "Cliff" is more apt.
That's not even mentioning the insanely in-depth nature of the jobs, like atmospherics, genetics, chemistry, xenobiology, hell even bartending can be challenging at first. As well as the countless custom servers like Colonial Marines, all those Fallout servers.. and Lifeweb and Farweb.
When playing mafia with friends (the party game, not video game) my favorite part is being the narrator and coming up with elaborate and crazy stories as I go. I think if there were a social deduction games that allowed the killer to come up with complicated and interesting ways to kill other players (like the Hitman series) and that people not only had to deduce who it was through actual evidence, but then also act to apprehend them I think that would be fun.
I also know it under the name ""mafia" and I first played it in chat. They have a bot for that.
Absolutely, hosting a game of mafia is really fun and I love coming up with stories for the deaths
play 'Deception: Murder in Hong Kong', it is literally what you're asking for.
@@jjmj4971 I'll check it out, thank you
Among us was actually pretty good in 2019, it had a small but pretty cool community, and the game was fun BECAUSE of it's simplicity
I remember Teosgame being one of the first streamers to play it before it got popular
Exactly
@@DylanoRevs also Kaif and SR
This is why Unfortunate Spacemen is so good, once you figure out who the traitor is, there's actual gameplay afterwards. It's great.
Glad to see a Fellow Unfortunate Spacemen Enthusiast
Only problem i have with it is that it's incredibly complicated, most times i can't even find my objectives.
@@weeb_dweeb like which tasks?
@@Chiesty_Mike i don't remember, but i rememeber that finding my way around the map was really hard, the trash disposal one was the easiest to do and it was still kinda confusing, i don't even remember how you're supposed to do the others.
@@weeb_dweeb like for me to name them and how to do them?
I was too anxious to be a good imposter in among us, so watching at good imposters on RUclips was kinda fun. The reason I played it was that it was a good excuse to spend time with non gamer Friends during the pandemic
I now want a super violent and in depth combat mixed with social deduction, where you’re a group of Inquisitors trying to root out the heretics on a forge world
Think you should try Unfortunate Spacemen if you want combat with sprinkle of social deduction
Ah crap, who invited the Alpha Legion?
Among Us may have also risen to popularity due to its developers already making a name for themselves with the Henry Stickmin games and attracting the initial audience to spread the word this way.
It goes further than this. Henry Stickmin is basically the *entire* reason Among Us took off. It released in 2018. It flopped. Henry Stickmin's final episode came out with direct references TO Among Us, and THEN it took off. The pandemic probably helped too, but yeah, Henry Stickmin pulling marketing for Among Us is the *biggest* reason it took off.
The roles and proximity chat mods that are prominent in probably the highest viewed and most frequent among us lobbies on Twitch definitely make it more enjoyable to watch. I got sick of trying to play with the strangest people though. You 100% need an organized lobby like those. It's like Mario Party in that you truly need friends to enjoy it with.
Yes, playing with randoms is, in my opinion, absolutely horrible. Every "social deduction" game I play is full of the dumbest or trolliest people. If I had a group then it would be better. Even a discord group because they actually want to play, though I would prefer people I actually know.
I think amongus got so popular not just because it was cheap and streamers played it, but because of how simple it is to get into a match. Just click on a lobby and it works.
nothing compares to playing mafia/werwolf/killer (however you call it) card game in real life whit a group of friends
Town of salem imo comes closest, because it's exactly that but with more roles. That said, I guess It can't replicate a group of friends.
Trying to make a deckbuilder version, Werewolf Mafia
Well, I don't have friends...🗿
"...and the internet chose the blandest and most basic of them all to be the most popular."
As a fan of Shin Megami Tensei, I resonate with this deeply.
Cant blame them for liking the most easily accessible and newest game before any of the other ones.
What Shin Megami Tensei games do you reccomend?
@@magentafox1657 If you have a 3DS, or are okay with emulating on Citra, I highly recommend Shin Megami Tensei IV.
Fast-paced combat with fantastic world-building and a superb soundtrack. The beginning is a little slow, but it's genuinely one of my favourite video games ever.
Im not gonna lie, I love the chores in amongus, it’s actually my favorite part
Based on your comments for the last game I reckon First Class Trouble would definitely be the balance you’re after. I haven’t played it since summer but it ticks all the boxes
It’s also free on Epic atm so you don’t need to pay to test it out
Dread Hunger is a good one. Or at least, when I played it.
The game requires you to be a lot more involved with it, and learn how to actually survive. It is very Killer sided, but once the Survivors learn to work together and get the ship moving. The killer is legitimately better off staying covert for as long as possible even if they can abandon the ship. You will deduce based off of gameplay. Shame that none of my friends wanted to play much of it and that there werent many english players playing the game.
I think Dread Hunger had the best room for creativity and different play styles but that got neutered over time once a meta developed and just like all other games the matchmaking sucked.
Love this game, you can come play with me and my friends!
While I never had friends to play TTT with, I still to this day watch the Yogscast play it since theres a lot of them they always have enough people to play and they always keep things interesting by adding new roles and weapons and banning OP items and RDMing the games are actually enjoyable to watch. They also show to the viewer who has what role but only after it is revealed in game so you as the viewer can keep track of who's who while also having the mystery of who is the traitor
This has me thinking about my very last Among Us match. I was a normie and these two guys were so obviously the imposters. At this point in the game's lifespan "Red sus" was a thriving meme and I was red cuz... well it's my favorite color.
The game starts and literally ten seconds into the match one imposter calls an emergency meeting and they both dive on me saying I was faking tasks and they saw me vent (again, ten seconds into the match). Everyone voted me out. "Red was not the imposter" across everyone's screen as my lifeless body floated away into the cosmos. I closed the game and never opened it again.
"TTT was the first social deduction game."
Werewolf: Am I a joke to you?
Yeah this guy didn’t actually research, he did a rant for a few minutes where he complained about there not being enough interaction(Town of Salem, Among Us), or too much interaction(Project Winter, Deceit) and made the declaration that children ruined it. Dude didn’t even consider the fact that Among Us became popular due to how easy it is to run, how cheap it was, how easy it was to play, and that streamers started playing it for the same reasons.
@@summbuddie9120 He was talking about the Social Deduction and Gameplay. He had no reason to talk about how easy Among Us is to run because he was not talking about that aspect.
As a regular among us player, something I'd like to say: I like Among Us for being the rawest social deduction murder mystery game out there. You keep track of where everyone is, trying to see who was with who last, and trying to compile all the evidence to build a case against someone, while also trying to prevent the ship from exploding. Alternatively, you keep track of where everyone is, sneak up on someone, close the door behind them, kill at the perfect time in the perfect place, and go back to acting normal. This gameplay is something I love, and it is especially great as a playable mobile game.
Oh also, I like how there is no prox chat (without mods), talking to people is hard :c
Yeah, one of my favorite aspects of among us and tos is the lack of voice chat, so it isn't expected to have
it's used to be so fun to just went all Sherlock Holmes as a crewmate and expose the impostors based on subtle clues you've been gathering, but it all changes ever since fucking shapeshifters were added
@@Boiled_Pizza Shapeshifters can be dealt with by getting everyone's location, or by following the SS until they unshift.
My experience with the game has been rather varied, to the point of people legit just harassing and bullying you for no reason and it is one of the many things that turn me off from multi-player games in general.
@@trickytraveller3272 cringe
This is gonna sound crazy but one of the coolest social deduction games that I’ve seen in recent times is actually a mod for dark souls made by this guy called inferno plus. The premise is you and your friends go through an area and defeat the boss at the end but while that is happening one of the people your playing with is actually a traitor who has all these items and abilities that make this part way harder and even if you beat the traitor you still have to beat the boss at the end so it’s definitely challenging.
1:30 Simple minds are attracted to simple stuff.
The social deduction genre of game in the current state of things work so much better as a tabletop game, and no one yet has not really figured out how to adapt that genre into a video game format. This is probably why there are so many games where everyone is just standing in circles.
idk, I think it actually works less good as a table top.
Its usually too easy to solve the game when most of the information is too easily available to everyone. Stuff like Mafia, Secret Hitler, Resistance, etc are all just far too easy to come up with a consistent gameplay that works nearly every time and after a while with experienced players, every game just feels stale.
With online social deduction games, you have the ability to have another aspect where people actually move around a map and engage with the map while killers go around and screw things up but may or may not be seen doing it. This adds another layer where everyone has their own perspectives and information to add and you have to actually make decisions on whether or not to trust people based on their stories. And even if you do trust them, you need to figure out how useful the information they have actually is. This also leaves the door open for killers to manipulate people to vouch for them even when theyre actively sabotaging things but are doing so without getting caught.
That aspect of the game means that there is fresh variability with every playthrough. There are always things you cant account for by yourself, and requires the help of everyone keeping an eye out to actually get the information you need to win. This forces discussions between players, and means you have to figure out who to actually trust since everyone's stories may be relevant, but also may be lies. The table top social deduction games pretty much never have this extra layer of depth, and everything about the current boardstate is split into knowledge that innocents have vs knowledge that killers have. There is rarely knowledge that one innocent has that another doesnt in table tops unless you have special rolls or something, but the strategy for dealing with those special rolls is always the same.
Tabletop works better only because you always play with people you are comfortable with and who know what they're doing.
Most online games consist of half of the lobby who knows all meta strats, and half lobby who can't do anything. No matter what title you play.
Just play forum mafia Gdi lol
@@eragon78 it's not stale if people are evolving their skills between games
@@DkKobaADV yea, but the issue is once you find out the optimal strategy, its just the optimal strategy.
There is no more evolving once you figure out a strategy that works every time with virtually no counterplay.
This is always going to be the issue when every player on the same team has access to nearly all the relevant information.
The only way to fix this is to add special rolls into the game, but even that only helps so much, because everyone who doesnt have a special role still has the same info as everyone else without one.
Compare that to an online social deduction game where people are physically in different locations in game, which means they are all gathering information independently of each other, and so when they come together to discuss things, they all have something they can potentially add using their own unique perspective. This is just not something table top games can add.
Ive played games like Mafia, Secret Hitler, and Resistance quite a lot, and they ALWAYS end up with some stale consistent optimal strategy. And since we all know the strategies, anyone who doesnt follow it is trying to derail the game because theyre on the evil team, so its trivial to beat them.
This is how basically every table top social deduction game always ends up that ive ever played. It starts out fun while people are figuring out strategies, then we quickly find a strategy that is optimal and then the games become extremely stale very fast.
I mean, for mafia for example, it seems like a game that could have a ton of counter strategies, but it really doesnt. When I play mafia with my friend group these days, we have basically solved it to the point that its pretty much impossible for killers to win unless we add in a million special rules to make it harder for town.
At least with among us, while there are a lot of really dumb optimal strategies as well that make it very hard for killers, at least you can house rule in a few things and its MUCH easier to keep dynamic and fresh compared to the table top games.
I am currently developing my own social deduction game. You make some great points. I think the game I'm developing matches most of your criteria for a good social deduction game.
1) I am planning a couple features to make finding good matches easier. One is the ability for server hosts to tag their server with intended environment, like you can filter servers based on tags like "role-playing","just for laughs","edgy","for noobs","for pros","mic-required" and so on to attract specific types of players who have different attitudes towards the game, much like Smash Ultimate's arenas. And I want a quick join system like old TF2 where you just have to press one button to instantly join with a random populated community server of your filtered tags/rulesets.
I want to have a special premium edition of the game called the Host edition, which lets people who are on your friends list join your server even if they don't own the game. This makes it easy to convince friends to try the game. I know how frustrating it is to have a friend group and try to convince them all to buy a game.
The game will also be optimized to be the most fun with 6-8 players. Because 10 players is pretty annoying to coordinate with.
2) My game in the early game will focus on secret messages. But the gameplay gets really engaging and intense through the midgame-endgame because it morphs into an arena-shooter fps. It will have mechanics like rocket jumping and bouncing projectiles.
3) My game will have prox chat and ragdolls.
4) In terms of the "keeping traitors engaged" thing, that doesn't really apply because my game is structured in a very innovative way. There is no "good" or "majority" team at all. It's more like a race to find one other player you can trust. I can't get into it more without giving away the whole game idea.
that sounds good
Sounds good, time to comment to be reminded to check it out once its released
Could you tell the game's name?
What is it called? Where can I keep up with its development?
Commenting for updates
6:38 my objection to that is one word and that is children
Project winter is definitely the best of this genre especially considering the objective is fun.. even without the traitor stuff.. it also is extremely customisable so you can easily fix any balance issues yourself and save it as a preset.
The big reason is that the interest in social deduction games caused people to get into ones irl when covid let us meet up again.
Murder mystery parties went out of fashion for a long time and had a resurgence because of among us lol
The biggest problem I have with these games is the players.
It's either some sweat that will screw you over instantly and trash talk you (one of the reasons I'm just too afraid of getting into Town Of Salem again, haven't played in years and I'm too afraid to try) or someone who just follows the herd without asking anything, which is why I prefer to play with friends, at least to the point the lobby is filled with someone I know.
As long as me and my friends share the single braincell we have, it's fun for me.
Project Winter is probably the best social deduction game. it has it all, gameplay, voice, and challenge, oh also social deduction.
StellarJay you've gotta try Blood on the Clocktower (I know it's technically not a video game, but it can be played online). As someone who's been playing social deduction games for years, this is objectively the best in the genre. It's in the same vein as Werewolf and Town of Salem, but it's very well designed.
Sorry for commenting 11 months later but
Yes thank god someone said something BOTC is so goddamn good
@@Brettastic8740 funny enough, I think we've played together. I'm alonelytaco on the Unofficial
It's only been 5 seconds into the video and your already spilling facts
I feel like the fun of tos was the fact you actually had to think about you and other peoples decisions and try to understand how to trick people. I don’t think writing down notes and pressing buttons was the main point.
I will say, my greatest experience with Project Winter was almost escaping, only for the last objective to be sabotaged, and hearing the traitor saying "He he he" on a radio as the mega blizzard comes
I forgot what the game was, but I remember there was a game like agrou, but you don’t even know if you are the traitor. and you have to figure it out, and everyone says, if I was wherewolf, I would eat ____, and the wherewolfs actually have their prompt come true. It was so much fun
If you want a really good game that, at it's core is a social deduction game, full of content and even older than among us, try space station 13
Although the game at it's core is social deduction, because there are imposters called antagonists in the game who are allowed to grief, most of the game is you doing whatever you want. There are endless possible scenarios and activities possible, too many to get into, and if that's not enough, you can get the admins involved and let them spice something up in the round. For example, one time, i got murdered by the chef as he was worshipping a cake god, so when i got murdered, i asked the admins to turn me into a poltergeist so i could roleplay as cake god, and they turned me into a wraith.
I just think more people should try the game out. When new, i suggest playing on goonstation as a staff assistant.
I love among us, not for its social deduction aspect, but for playing online and making freinds and enemies with random strangers
Exactly!
It’s not even really good at that though
I like your use of visual gags in this video. For example, when you said “look at any successful game” you used a short clip from Overwatch 2. That’s a good laugh.
There was actually a single player Social Deduction game that was released a while back that I recommend you try. It's called "Gnosia." Although, as a veteran to social deduction games I found certain edge cases to be very limiting in what I could do to deceive and obscure certain aspects of information (as well as reveal certain aspects of information) given the options I had, but it is a fun experience with an overarching story that I have a full vote of confidence for.
gnosia! gosh I hope that sequel comes to fruition.
To be honest, i think barotrauma fits your criteria quite nicely.
It even has proximity chat and battery powered radio.
I miss my favourite RUclipsrs playing TTT... (or playing anything for that matter, they either stopped with gaming or devolved into toddler content)
Yogscast still play it regularly.
Town of Salem isn’t just voting- there is a whole night system where you can do actions specific to roles, calculating stuff, finding info to use in the day. Silly to dumb it down.
The thing is that in person social deduction games have the added benefit of facing down your other players. It's so personal and tense which makes up for lack of gameplay video games might suffer with.
one game that i think is really good is mindnight, sadly it never really took off and oftentimes my friends and i are literally the only people playing it at that time. it's basically a free to play steam version of resistance as far as i know, but if you like social deduction games and have 5-7 friends, it's worth checking out. it is one of those "sit in a circle and vote" kind of games, but i do think its pretty fun because even the innocents have something to do instead of just sitting around waiting for stuff to happen
I recommend first class trouble, it's kind of janky but it is so fun playing with 5 other friends
Just played this with mates today; I second your recommendation.
There was a cool Star Craft themed custom map way back on Warcraft 3, where the players were terrains Fending of Zerg attacks, but one (or more) of the players was an Infested Terran. Its been years since I played that, but I remember that being a pretty decent social deduction game.
1:30 Among us was out for 2 years before it got really popular in 2020.
It got popular because of the Henry Stickmin Collection's release in 2020. That game, made by the same developer, had collectable crewmates hidden throughout the game. Streamers looked into it and it took off.
And yeah, with no VC, it's basically only playable with friends. I wouldn't play any social deduction games without friends.
So initially, it was less "appeal to children" and more "end up popular on the internet and all the children will play it".
ah yes, my perfect cameo, on 4:20
Nice opinion there, but as someone who's played more than 400 hours of town of salem. I don't think you need much more than basic game play for a social deduction game. Because that's whats fun, socially deducing who's the threat.
Town of Salem will forever be elite
Bro, first time watching your video, but the background music is *mwah*, i see you're a man of great taste.
I think you might like Space Station 13, it's a little old but it doesn't have a lot of the problems that these games have
yeah I was surprised this whole video he didn't know anything about it
Have you ever heard of our lord and savior Space Station 13?
Absolutely gutted to hear about Project Winter, I've wanted it for ages at thos point but learning about that balancing is gonna keep it on my wishlist forever at this point
yeah its not even worth buying at this point, even if they do fix all the balancing issues it takes forever to find a match despite the good matchmaking system cuz it peaks at around 120-200 on weekdays and around 250 on weekends. i boot it up once a month before losing patience waiting for a game
Among Us with the Roles mod is still by far my favorite content to watch on RUclips. It’s impossible to play because you need 10 friends to download the Role mod and the proximity chat mod, but it’s definitely still fun to watch Chilled turn invisible and and say “Large breasts” before killing his confused friends. 🤣
If you’re talking by about the “Town of Hosts” mod, only the host of the lobby needs to download it
The big issue i see with social deduction games is pretty simple, only the bad guys get to play a game, everyone else is just setting around waiting for something to happen, then discussing for a minute or two. This makes playing pubs even worse because people will quit if they don't get the badguy role. On top of that, if you die you just sit and watch for 5-10 minutes.
I think my ideal social deduction game would focus on making all roles be just as fun, instead of just being a waiting room for the survivors.
Like imagine a game where you're in a cult and need to choose someone to sacrifice, but you all get a hidden power and goal/target that will contradict other players, you spend the game working toward a final confrontation. No one gets killed until the end of the game avoiding the boring sitting out, and since everyone is a traitor it means everyone gets to play the game part of the game. The problem comes from figuring out who's goals are opposite or adjacent to your own and working with/against them.
The Town of Salem in question:
The game you just described is Blood on the Clocktower. It's amazing
@@scarface5856 never heard of it, thank you for the suggestion! Its rare to find a new one
Space Station 13 is king of this genre, but the learning curve is insane
I really like this quick-to-the-point format ⏳
you know what social deduction game didn't fall off immediately? space station 13.
Facts
to be fair it's core audience isn't very broad
Social deduction games are a niche that grew outside its community momentarly thanks to how popular Among Us was.
90% of the playerbase is people following their favorite streamers' moves. It's not a popular genre, as with traditional turn-based RPGs. "SD" games just boomed at the right place, at the right time.
8:53 I mean that's the case for most genres nowadays
-Poppy playtime
-Among us
-Roblox: Rainbow Friends
-Monster School
You are, indeedly, correct.
There’s a wild combat focused social deception set of games in the StarCraft 2 arcade- if you want one with a bunch of people screaming curse words that is more in depth than most deduction games go there, and look into the various games whose title starts with parasite or is called fall of aphadia (the best deception one)
0:36
b u y C S S
Town of Salem didn't take off? Okay buddy.
Please provide evidence that it did.
@@catjayp steam concurrent player counts during 2014. It also peaked again in 2021.
@@JPEG_cat With less then 10,00 people. Sure it is popular, but it needs to be way more popular then that to have taken off.
Theres 2 obscure-ish social deduction games I'm part of the community of.
1 is called Untrusted, a ToS-like hack based game where 10-16 players are assigned roles between Netsec(Town), Agents(Mafia) and Nuetrals. The Netsec must either kill the 2(3 in 13+ games) Agents, who can arrest and disrupt the hack, and mole 1(2 in 13+) Netsec members, or hack a certain laptop within a topology of either a 3x4, or 4x5 depending on size(with gaps ofcourse) while the nuetrals have other goals from killing both "leaders"(Operation and Agent leader), to helping Agents arrest people to gain bounties(while you dont know their identity). The Agents have to actively balance taking down netsec, and blending in, because there is no role list, so every claim is on the table. Unfortunately, the community is small, so getting 10p at certain times is all but impossible, but their discord is good at it.
The other is Espionage Mafia evolved, an 8 player *textless* game where 4 civilians, a supporter and the detective must find and vote the Spy, who gets help from their Informant. To complicate things, nobody knows who the detective is, except the support(although not the other way around) and the informant knows the Spy(but not vice versa) so you must use you AP to gain Trust and avoid Suspicoun. Everyone has Intel, that, when you gain enough Trust Points with someone, you share with them, showing who's not the Detective or Informant. Every selectable character also has a one use ability to do things such as nominate everyone for arrest(elimination) or gaining 33(/100) trust with everyone. Very sad the matchmaking is based on finding an open lobby, you dont know how many full lobbies there are, and nobody uses the discord to organize games, which the only times I really played were during the beta, as a playtester, where the games were set for certain times.
Wish these 2 games had more playership, I find them both fun, but not many players. Both are also free on Steam, and espionage is on mobile.
Damn bro I remember the first time I recorded a video with you and I come back and I gotta say man I love the work ethic and how you've grown, keep up the good work man 🔥
You can't call every social discussion game a TTT clone, people have been playing games like this in real life for hundreds of years
One of my favourite project winter match was when i as a role thief discovered a traitor with truth serum, stole his role, survivor medic revived that traitor, AS A TRAITOR and 2 of us and 3rd traitor basically killed everyone when 2nd objective with defence from wild life started.
Despite town of salem never blowing up, it has maintained a stable player count for years.
Ever since I finished all of Shammy's back catalog, I've been looking for a new funny bird man to monologue about video games at me. Nice.
0:24 "Social deduction games started in 2012..." Laughs in been playing Space Station 13 since 2004
Its kinda odd to me that there's no mention to ye old mafia/werewolf or space station 13
seriously mafia is probably the biggest factor I can imagine for the existence of town of salem and also like the oldest most influential social deduction game probably
and I refuse to believe amogus is not a bad copy of ss13
the resemblance looks so uncanny albeit with a heavy lobotomy
...not to get my hopes up but incase I've tempted fate and someone is willing to delve into ss13 before this gets buried
please please read the rules of whichever servers you join
you'll probably have a worse time and just make everyone else's time worse aswell
the vibe of the game is a whole lit more like a dnd group with stangers and like multiple possibly many dms hovering around watching you
and like dnd groups the servers can vary from how much they like the social aspects of the game compared to raw gameplay vs roleplaying / storytelling
Everyone always forgets what is arguably the first social deduction video game, ss13
2:23 Man you're lucky, my list of friends that will play games with me is 2 people long.
I don't have a list 😔
watching stellarjay is so much better ones you've seen him in a "smexy" outfit.
Look, I'm not smart myself but the real reason why deduction games aren't fun is that some people don't take it seriously or even makes smart moves. When watching among us videos the people playing play the game how it's supposed to and getting that experience with public people is extremely hard when one person or many make constant stupid decisions.
why are you simultaneously the funniest youtuber i have ever watched in my entire life and the best video essay youtuber i have ever watched
VRchat has a gamemode called murder that fits all 3 of your lists all matches are with randoms but most randoms in vrchat are actually quite accepting of the gamemode [specifically since you have to actively choose it]
2. innocents are always looking for clues to get a gun and trying to figure out the murderer, the sheriff is constantly on high alert due to the murderer
3. murderers cant just leave everyone alone since the sheriff will just shoot them if they pop out of nowhere
4. the modifiers for the gamemode greately improve it such as random spawns and invisible knives
For me its that among us would be better with random people, since with friends at some point it gets easier to guess who killed who, since revenge and such things.
Meanwhile with random people you don't know anything and it gets even more harder if you get auto disconnect once its over
Dont forget freaking in real life troll teams.