Gold Dot VS TAC-XP VS Xtreme Defender - 9mm Auto Glass Ballistic Gel Test - Bonded VS SCHP VS Fluted
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2023
- Testing to see which is a better round design and best at penetrating auto glass. Speer Gold Dot 9mm+P 124 gr JHP VS Underwood TAC-XP 9mm+P+ copper HP VS Underwood Xtreme Defender 9mm+P. I shoot through auto glass into 10% Clear Ballistics as well as my standard ballistic test from my 5" M&P 9 2.0. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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Nice test in 9mm, when I was on the job I used my GP100 with Gold Dot 357 in 3 deadly force encounters one thru a windshield and it performed flawlessly eliminating the threat immediately. Gold Dot has been protecting me for nearly 30 years now and God willing will for the next 30 or more now in 327 Fed Mag but I’m supremely confident in that round.
Glad u had your GDs. Very trustworthy as you've proven.
3 good options. Tough to complain with any.
I would personally vouch for the Xtreme Defender 9mm rounds.
@@bobjones-bt9bh I've fired a box and a half of those at targets. They're good, but I feel that the 10mms are better still.
The more I see xtreme defender tests the more I love these due to acting like a fmj but still causing close to or the same damage as hollowpoints in most cases.
As evidenced in this and numerous other ballistics gelatin videos, the Xtreme Defender series notably surpass the effectiveness of a wide variety of hollow points.
@@kennethferguson4283 Thats another thing thats nice about them is the weight difference. In pistols with 15+ you can feel a difference.
@@kennethferguson4283 The damage done to ballistics gel beyond the crush cavity is not the same as how the projectile performs in living tissue. Ballistics gel is a measuring instrument to measure penetration, expansion(when relevant) and crush cavity.
Fmj bullets perform much worse in auto glass and other such barriers when compared to a good bonded bullet.
Best video surprised extreme defender is not used by law enforcement
Extreme defender does the same in any media, +p+ will defeat ba rated above 9mm. Underwood offers in in a plated carry too which doesn’t tarnish from sweat. It’s been my go to for a couple years now
How’s the recoil of the higher pressure compare?
@Spaceman2484
The bullet is so light that the recoil is lighter too
Excellent testing!! I really like that 9mm TAC-XP at around the 1300fps. Buffalo Bore has a similar loading (albeit more expensive and not nickel plated brass). These all copper HP’s seem to need lots of cow bell to expand and perform like a JHP. It’s the same with all copper rifle bullets but they always deliver with the terminal performance.
I wonder when someone will design an all copper HP for handguns that’s tipped like the Hornady Critical Duty. This may allow it to defeat auto glass and expand. We will see. It’s an exciting time to be a firearms enthusiast.
Excellent highly informative video, and very well done.
Thank you!
You've got me taking a long hard look at the UA TAC-XP round. I've been carrying UA 9mm Luger 124 Gr SGD Bonded JHP +P+ in my 9mm Luger self-defense pistols for over a decade... but now I'm rethinking that.
Good things! 👍
Great test,keep ‘em coming!
Dave Spaulding spoke highly of the tac-xp and corbon dpx, now i see why. I tried these same ammunitions but in .40 and was surprised to note that the copper hollow points had some degree of expansion through barriers. That's to say not much, but more than regular cup/core JHP or bonded JHP.
I have Buffalo Bore's version on the way in .357 Sig 125 gr TAC-XP! Also their heavy .357 Mag 125 gr but they call that one the XPB which I think is the same bullet. Can't wait to test them. Also have a couple versions of Barnes brand I am testing soon. I really like what I have been seeing so far.
@@GunSam i just got a 357sig barrel for my G23! I never had an opportunity to test that caliber through barriers, it would be interesting to do this same test with 357sig/mag. I added wood and sheet metal to my testing, that's where i saw JHP fail by clogging/flattening and copper stand out with the deformation mushrooming.
@@SuspiciousGanymede I'm sure that is why many top brands have added the poly/plastic centers to their hollowpoints in many big brands. Even Federal added their center pin/tit to thier HP ammo. Hornady's work in developing their "Critical Duty" series must have done a lot of this I think tho. They did win the Federal Ammo contract because of its barrier defeating capabilities tho., so there is that. Although I am not a huge fan of them because of their inflated prices personally.
Fantastic test and yet again I am impressed with that Barnes bullet. I have tested it in several calibers and it consistently delivers.
Thank you
Thanks for getting the high end good stuff to test, three great choices for glass.
I was going to use Barnes brand 9mm+P for the TAC-XP. Then I realized when I got it, that it's only 1,120 FPS rating even though it's a +P. I was shocked, I will test that in another video. I was happy how close the energy was, I wasn't sure it was going to be this close, but it's great to have the energy so close.
Really close FT LBS in this one! @@GunSam
Excellent choice, excellent channel
This was a very comprehensive test. Obviously a lot of thought went into load selection. The Gold Dot has been a standard for LE for many years, and for good reason. However, it looks like it’s time as a benchmark has passed. As much as I like the Extreme Defender, I use it in multiple calibers, the TAC-XP shows every bit as much performance potential. But this is only true if it’s propelled to high enough velocity. If you prefer milder loads, the Extreme Defender might be the better choice.
Great video 👍👍
TAC-XP: the tactical extreme penetrator! 💥
GS. Always good and interesting videos. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
Hope ur good. We got hit hard south of lansing. And in lansing actuallly. Great testing as usual.
I prefer copper over lead (unless there is some compelling performance-based reason to go with lead with some particular defensive ammo). From everything I've seen, heard, and read, copper bullets--both copper fluted solids (Underwood Xtreme Defender) and copper hollow points (Barnes TAC-XP)--behave more consistently in gel tests (for example, very consistent penetration and, for copper hollow points, extremely reliable expansion) and do vastly better with barriers than lead hollow points. So I really like Barnes TAC-XPs and Underwood Xtreme Defenders and stock both in virtually every caliber I own. Nonetheless, I do additionally stock Federal HSTs in 9mm and 45 auto.
Historically the harder copper outer jacket holds it together, while the softer lead allows its expansion in Hollowpoint bullets as we know. Most all copper HPs I have seen tested are not doing well with most barriers tho, as it screws up their expansion. Copper is much harder metal but it can be designed to open up in gel. Its the heavy soft clothing, and the hard barriers that destroy that expansion though. Also many of these copper HP rounds open up so large, they cannot penetrate deep at all. However This TAC XP did surprisingly well penetrating thru glass, but look at All of these rounds. They were destroyed by the auto glass! I think Barnes is doing better with their TAC XP than some though. I will keep an eye on it in other barrier tests for sure and see if it can handle some barriers, and expand and penetrate in gel.
Another great test. The TAC-XP was surprising. Loaded at the higher velocity really made that bullet perform compared to Barnes loads.
Thanks. Yeah, I ran the same 115 gr Barnes bullet in their own 9mm in a different video that I haven't released yet, not through glass but in a standard test. I used my G2C and got like 1,075 FPS on average. I would guess I would get something like 1,175 FPS in my 5" barrel, nowhere near about 1,300 FPS like Underwood.
It's very rough on your gun though
@@jason200912ive put thousands through mine. 😂
Probably the best testing setup I've seen, have always thought that there needs to be a rib/sternum layer for ballistic simulations in addition to the fabric. A round's performance is really only as good as it's worst case scenario. From hospital experience, I've seen 9mm JHP lodged in sternums or severely deflected with petals torn off from ribs. Thanks for getting this info out!
Thanks for that test and review.
thanks for the video - very informative - pause for consideration on the XP
Awesome video Sam! You should try the CBC bonded ammo.
★ 100% on assessment. Thank you. Good video.
Thanks good vid. I'm still a defender fan though. I just like the consistency and good penetration.
Thank you
I like the copper solids.
I don't often see the glass testing. Interesting results.
A good video Mr Sam and as usual I won't see a response.
Thank you. As usual won't see a response? I either heart or reply to all my comments unless they are trolling.
this was an awesome test! I would love to see this in .380! I believe the extreme defender could possibly be one of the best .380 self defense rounds out there.
Thank you.
It seems to be from many I have watched.
@@PatriotPaulUSA the TAC-XP did very well in this video. It would be interesting to see the differences in .380 caliber. If it *will still perform as well, or will the XD continue to outshine in .380 ?? Only one way to find out huh @GunSam
Great picks for comparing. Auto glass is also where the extra oomph of 40 S&W and 357 Sig shows up well.
Thanks for watching.
Or better yet, 10mm
Xtreme Defender out performed hollow points in every test yet again. Amazing round.
Interesting that the Gold Dot dumped enough energy, hard enough, fast enough, to knock the 3" gel block off the front (@ 5:15 and again @ 7:08) but the other two rounds could not defeat your rigging. I think that tells me what I need to know about which round I might want to carry for self-defense.
Gold Dot is good ammo. I think what really happened was that the Gold not penetrating as far, means all along the path there's more surface area dumping and jiggling the block, so it pushes back against that piece. It's such a unique stupid problem with how I use 3" pieces lol. I haven't found a great way to fix it. Ultimately I think I need a full square of metal, like several "L" brackets welded into a square that is almost exactly 5.75" square to fully press against that 6" X 6" (x3") first section.
The Xtreme Defender unequivocally imparted more cavitational damage. Carry whatever you want, as all of the rounds tested are sufficient, but there is a clear winner here in terms of cavitation.
@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS -Is there any empirical evidence anywhere that cavitation in ballistic gelatin translates to “tissue damage” or “stopping power” in a live mammalian target? It appears to me that a great deal of “self defense” handgun ammunition in the modern era is designed and manufactured to perform well in gelatin. Sam’s comments on documented performance in real world shooting statistics would support a lead hollow point, such as the Gold Dot, over cavitation in gel.
That is not an accurate measure or conclusion
Great vid! Three top defensive rounds, can’t go wrong with Gold Dots but these Extreme Defenders may have an edge ( tissue damage AND penetration). Thinking may be a damn good woods carry round also ( especially in 9mm). 🤔
Thank you
I would love to see someone test the Underwood 9mm+p 68 grain defender(1800 fps) on Body Armor.
Already done.
Do you remember the channel?
I like the mini gun myself. And the 500 S&W 600 grain. Good for hunting also.
If it’s a overcast day take the diffusers off the chronograph! Your wecome👍🇨🇦🇺🇸🏴🇬🇧
Great demonstration. A comparison between extreme defender and FMJ or FMJ flat point through auto glass would be interesting considering price and availability.
Thanks!
FMJs have no expansion or defensive capability tho. Out of a pistol, target ammo like that, does not create the huge wound channels, and tissue damage, etc. You would have to fire 5-6- or more rounds to achieve the same blood loss in a target, (if you didn't hit anything vital), as compared to a single expanding round or a extreme defender. (They basically do 2 different things) Remember the thing that takes down a target, is massive blood loss, (loss of blood pressure) If nothing vital is hit, like spine, heart, brain, etc. Many times limbs, muscle and bone, is all that is hit. I spent too many years hunting wild animals and saw a lot of this even with higher powered rifles.
Anyone surprised by the Extreme Defender’s performance shown here hasn’t been paying attention!
All I’ve carried in several calibers since they hit the market!
They tumble. They work fine, and a 90 gr Xtreme bullet sideways is over 1.5 times as 'wide' as it's diameter. They work, but they aren't really better than JHP in my opinion.
Thanks 🎯👍
Very Nice Testing as usual Gun Sam! 😊The Hornady "Critical Duty" won them the Federal Ammo contract because of its ability to shoot thru auto safety glass and still achieve 12-18" penetration in gel (Their 135+P 9mm load ) It still boggles my mind it did this with ALL 5 barriers! 😉 ( Drywall is much softer than 2- 20 gauge steel sheets and auto glass ) It kinda defies physics, in my mind. 😊😆😂 The Extreme defenders have been about the only others that I think defeat hard barriers like auto glass. I am curious how these TAC XPs perform in the other 3-4 barriers the FBI tests use, like the 2 sheets of 3.5" spaced drywall, 3/4" CDX plywood, 2 sheets of 18 gauge steel spaced apart a few inches, the heavy clothing barrier, etc. Many of these all copper rounds that are not solid, have major trouble when hitting barriers as it destroys their expansion or clogs them up, also destroying their expansion. I will keep an eye out for Barnes TAC XP's tests in barriers from now on. though for sure.
I'm glad I just bought a few 50 round boxes of that 👍🏻 I really want to see how they do out of a PCC length barrel but nobody seems to test that.
really should try the 147 variants of Gold Dot and HST, and 10mm GD, HST, and Underwood Barnes. Cool video.
Is it weird that seconds into your video, I realized that I have a bit of an intelectual man crush? This is HIGH grade prep/thinking/pre-stage work. Not only did you compare every bullet I love, cause they rule supreme in performance, but you have good tastes in who loads it, how they load it, and take into consideration the anatomy of people. This is really rare to see broski.
In....Garry Robert's did write that the Tac/all copper bullets had a tendency to veer off 90 degrees or so after going through windshield....my guess is sometimes one of 4 get ripped off or peeled back all the way when going through and the drag acts as a pivot point redirecting....perhaps just something those that drive for a living should consider
I have see that in the past with ammo like this, the S&B did that very thing but not through auto glass. What I can tell is at least at these velocities, I don't think auto glass could really bend the petals like that, however in some of the Barnes brand 9mm stuff that is 115 gr TAC-XPD rated at only a little over 1,000 FPS, I could see that happening.
@GunSam it may be in angles shots your doing 0 or 90 degrees I believe fbi does 3 angles ?
Extreme Defender Platinum Edition has been my new go to carry round. It’s performance is impressive.
Is there any difference with it being a different color?
@GunSam from what I understand, the platinum edition uses a projectile coating to reduce tarnishing on the copper during stowage and carry, and help aid bullet stabilization by giving the rifling something softer to grab.
@@GunSam it’s s protective coating to prevent the oxidation of the copper and it may prevent some of the copper fouling of the barrel. I only picked it over the other because it was an option, that was just a little more money. I don’t mind spending extra for carry ammo. Range ammo I buy cheaper ammo and don’t care if there is an occasional malfunction; because that teaches you what to do without even thinking under stress.
I carry federal HST + p. But I have a extra clip of extreme defender + p + for barriers. Great test!
It seems the extreme defender won each segment of the test. What do you mean when you say they didn’t “wow you ?”
Kind of like dementia people that get freaked out from the modern world but calm down when you play them some 1950s music
Before seeing the results my money is on Speer Gold Dot. Its been a round that I trusted for years in Law Enforcement.
Fan of 90gr Xtreme Defender in +P
Very high confidence / Carry round. Ruger LCR handles them just fine…
Nice
Thank you, that was great!!! -Gunny T sends
Thanks!
One thing to consider is that the Gold Dot 124 grain +p has been around for quite a while. I don’t know if it’s been updated since it’s inception. It seems to have worked well for NYPD and I thought Homeland Security Investigations also selected it. The Gold Dot G2 147 grain and the Critical Duty +p 135 were the top performers for the FBI thru all tested barriers, including auto glass. Whether agencies use either one is based more on contract price since both performed to the required criteria. The Gold Dot 124s and HSTs are both good for most self defense requirement even if not performing as well thru auto glass or car doors. Shooting into a car is a crap shoot anyway and really must be considered a last resort.
I didn't like the extreme defender at first , probably just because I'm an old dog and like the look of a good hollowpoint better than a screwdriver tip , but after seeing many ballistic gel tests and their superior performance , I'm a believer and have bought some in 9mm 40 s&w and 45acp . Excellent demonstration and I think that the extreme defender proved it's superiority over the hollowpoint once again!
I use underwood extreme defender for all my carry guns.
I carry in my bag, so the extreme defenders 68 grain I think, make a huge difference in weight.
Tax-xp has legendary street performance on the Corbon DPX platform in real world shootings not surprisingly it performs well here.
a bit off-topic, on slo-mo it seemed the Tac-XP had 'flashes' wondering if it was a trick of the light coming off the expanding leaves or if it actually releases photons as the metal is energetically deformed, thoughts?
Good test. I am VERY surprised by the TAC-XP doing as well...basically...as the Extreme Defender. The Defender is my load of choice for carry in sub 4.5" barrel's. I use the Critical Duty in anything 4.5" barrel's and above in 9mm. I do not have plan's the change away from the Defender.
Thank you
Definitely did not do "as well" as the Xtreme Defender.
I would stick with it too IMHO. I will be keeping an eye on these newer Barnes Copper HP Bullets barrier tests too. Most of the time that is where these copper HP's have big problems, in those 4 or 5 FBI barriers they test. (They test thru Auto safety glass, sheets of 18 gauge steel spaced apart 3", 3/4" CDX plywood, 2 sheets of drywall 3.5" apart, then an 18" air space, and then into the gel block) They need to achieve 12-18" penetration in the gel. (After each barrier! ) The closer any can get to that , the better they are IMHO. Just passing thru a barrier and expanding and making good depth in gel is a good round. Auto glass is always the killer for all of these. The rest are easier but still very difficult, to expand, and hit the gel depth of 12-18"
Did you notice any difference in recoil with the extreme defender? I would assume so since the grain weight is smaller.
After this video, tac-xp moved up a notch for me.
Is it better to use heavier bullet weights in long barrels and lighter weight in short barrels or whays what?
I love what these xtreme defenders do to a target, but find them to be less accurate with a different point of impact as others. The tacxpd is the most accurate round in my pistols.
I’ve been carrying the extreme defender +p+ in all my semi automatics for years, They are a cut above “Normal” ammo.
You wouldnt know
I wonder if the tac xp bullets perform at more or less the same level when going 1050-1125 fps
9mm +p and +p+ does good. i wonder What 357 and 44 magnums do. 😮
Wish you would havd added HST 124g +p
👍
to recap, the XD won thru bare gel. the XD won thru clothing gel. and the XD tied thru glass. hands down, Long Live the *XD*
It's not a competition. But my opinion is extreme defender sucks. It tumbles. That's all it does. Might do okay for defense based on that, but I'd rather have reliable expansion.
👍😊
External hollow points are silly. The only true damage a pistol bullet causes is what it physically touches and cuts in the body. If the bullet does not expand its not going to cause as much damage. Unless you start going over 2,000 feet per second when you get room cavitation such as with a rifle round expansion and penetration are what does the damage.
Love the idea behind the ED. Started with HSTs, then Hornady CD, and switched to Underwood ED a few years ago. 😂
Would a coated hardcast do the same as an Extreme Defender?
I think it depends. Hard cast is closer to regular lead alloy for hardness, so it will deform a lot. But on the other side of the coin, hard cast is almost always heavy for caliber, so I think the extra weight would carry it through about as well as Xtreme defender.
I’m only watching because I’m confident there won’t be a balogna penetration test.
Vs critical duty.😮😮😮😮
Is there any real street shootings with these types of this fluted ammo. I can't find anything
"Well, the Xtreme Defender actually out performed everything today, but we're going to say the TAC was best, because, reasons." - the Internet
The Xtreme Defender out performed everything? In what world? lol. The bullet no matter what you try to claim, still only made a 9mm sized hole. The TAC-XP averaged .668" diameter in the plain gel and through denim and MDF, the Xtreme Defender was below .36". The amount of cutting with a hollow point is significantly better. Then through auto glass the Xtreme Defender mushroomed to .358" while the TAC-XP mushroomed to .454", both with about the same penetration. Overall the TAC-XP did more than the other two, did better with and without auto glass, no one could say otherwise as we are looking right at the evidence. I double down because I am right and you are dumb.
@@GunSam actually a really good response. I believe you said the Defender ammo performed better, so i was definitely confused by your final statements regarding results. I'll rewatch. BTW, i bought a bunch of X Defender in .380 and it fails to feed\jams **every round** through a Kahr p380. So frustrating. I'm back to .380 Hydrashock and Hornady Critical Defense because they work 100%. The (9 and 45) X Defender works great in my G43, P365, and G30SF. I promise, I'm not dumb, LOL, but i do apologize for coming across rude in my original comment.
Been looking for a video on tac xp didn’t know this bullet was this wicked I’m a defender man but the tac xp looks a little better
Bump
It sounds like you’re slightly biased against the extreme defender but the proof is in the pudding in all phase of the testing it did more damage and had more consistent penetration thanks for the good work!
PizzA
I got hit in the face with one of those shell casings from the Xtreme defender! I'm rather impressed by how well the Barnes bullets work. I wish they were cheaper. As reloading components, they are expensive enough that you are generally better off getting a factory load unless you are looking for something really unusual. As for the Xtreme Defender bullets, I remain rather skeptical of the fluted design's efficacy in spite of their performance in gel testing.
The energy of the Barnes .357 Mag will be really close to this 9mm TAC-XP. If it does well in the snub, having a good barrier defeating always expanding low recoil round seems like a good thing.
@@GunSam Lucky gunner labs tested it. It looks like it performs well. No actual word on recoil beyond the obvious statement that 357 recoils harder than 38.
Lucky gunner also tested the 38 Spl+P Hornady 110gr Critical Defense. It did OK out of the Kimber K6S 2" barrel. Paul Harrell likes the CD in his 638.
I hope I get get a good range day in soon to decide once and for all if 357 is viable for me out of the M&P340. I should set an objective measure for that. I haven't got one yet. I sent mail, but I don't know if you're getting it or are busy.
@@Fudmottin I see the emails but I haven't really read them all fully, takes me a time to set down to read things that are of a lot of words. I ran the Barnes .357 Mag in my 4" barrel in the past, very low recoil. I am betting the recoil will be about like that 110 gr Remington .357 Mag (edit, in the 2" snub), where there's recoil but not brutal. I am betting on a very fast burning powder as well, which would be very efficient.
@@GunSam Cool. I should get a job where I'm paid by the word! LOL.
In addition to their outstanding results in gel, if you ever get a chance to shoot Xtreme Defenders (or Xtreme Penetrators) through actual living flesh, your skepticism will immediately vanish. Those flutes are simply not a gimmick. They do precisely what they're designed to do and do it better than hollow points. They will prove to be the most notable advancement in wound ballistics history. Just wait and see.
I'm staying with my 9 mm UNDERWOOD 90 gr. Extreme Defender. Testson The Military Channel shows me it is VERY reliable/
If I have to use deadly force to defend myself or loved ones I want RELIABILITY..
Why would you do this test with a 5" barrel? Thats an OWB duty gun. Cops have the resources to do these tests themselves. A 4" or less barrel would be a better representation of what the average CCW uses. Sam you have a great setup, but please use the shorter barrels.
Stfu stop crying
I appendix carry a pistol with a 5" barrel as do countless others. For reference, I'm also 5' 7" and 190 lbs with an athletic build. It's totally doable.
Different strokes for different folks...
5.25" barrel EDC checking in here. It's not that uncommon.
What is up with all the pro Xtreme Defender comments in here? They sound like Underwood employees. Even after you proved it's not the best in all situations and can even over penetrate.
These are the tests we wanna see in the real world. This is what affects rounds and shot placement capabilities. But you need to angle that windshield a lil more to be an accurate result. Automotive windshields are more of a 45 degree angle not 60 degree angle. Great experiment tho. And I’d love to see more underwood being tested like this. And the underwood extreme penetrators are absolute BEASTS of a lil bullet and will for sure blow thru a windshield and a whole gel block or two.
Try angling them like that lol. Trust me, I have tried a lot of messing with that and it's not as easy as it looks. Would take a rig that makes the holding of the windshield like 2 feet taller than it is, and then trying to get enough footing to hold it right. PLUS it is a 1990 Ford Ranger pickups truck windshield, which is about the right angle for that.
Which gr of underwood did you use (sorry if I missed it)? Underwood claims different barrier performance between their 68gr 9mm and 90gr 9mm offerings in this line
I used 90 gr to be as close as possible to normal bullet weight.