Jet Almost LANDED On A AIRPLANE on the Runway. REAL ATC
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2023
- 11 AUGUST 2023
San Diego air traffic controller cleared an arriving
Cessna Citation 560XL registration N564HV to land on
runway 27 at San Diego International Airport (KSAN),
then instructed Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700
flight number SWA2493 to taxi onto the same runway
and stand by for takeoff clearance.
Collision warning alarms alerted air traffic controller “about the
developing situation,” and controller ordered the crew
of the Citation to abort their landing and go around.
Investigators say collision was avoided by less than 100 feet.
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Hey, guys! I decided to create a channel with slightly better visualization. The first video is already on the channel. link below and in first comment. Leave your opinion in the comments under the video.
Welcome on board!
ruclips.net/video/Q_lvPxZvhAE/видео.html
Now that was a balls up! I was almost waiting to hear ‘possible ATC deviation, advise when ready to copy number’ from both aircraft.
I do believe she will get the ATC equivalent of "copy that number" (but not via ATC radio). It is clear that she will have to answer a number of questions - to begin with.
I knew as soon as the Tower was about to read off a departure clearance modification on Tower freq, this was not going to end well. Thankfully it just ended with people inconvenienced.
Good on the Southwest pilot for keeping calm and proffessional, you could tell he was pissed. Im betting that Citation buzzing overhead gave them a hell of a startling too.
Needs to be a clock in your head, 30 seconds and I'm gonna ask what's going on.
Tower controller screwed up big time and overworked herself and put a lot in danger for no reason. Hopefully she gets some more training.
not sure if she overworked herself or if she is overworked but she is definitely overworked no matter whos at fault...
Why is the controller handling takeoff/landing giving long winded instructions to planes that aren't related to takeoff/landing. Have them change frequency and talk to someone else and free up the radio for time-sensitive stuff.
Hopefully someone files a report on that controller!
Pilots should also pay attention to conservation between ATC and other traffic in the same frequency.
That's good advice. On Tuesday I was on final in a 172, when I heard the tower clear another 172 for takeoff on my runway. I asked my CFI if the tower just cleared somebody for our runway, but he hadn't been paying attention to the radio. A few seconds later, the tower asked us to perform some S curves to create spacing. We never got within 5000 feet of the other plane, so it wasn't as bad as this.
We do.
The SWA pilot did question the tower, but his transmissions were blocked due to how busy the frequency was.
Yeah, there may be 20 high performing autists in the world who could do that while flying an airliner.
The pilot of the citation was paying attention and checked that it was still OK to land. He was tactful about it 👍🏾
First - great visualisation!
Second - this typical (US only?) procedure of clearing an aircraft for landing and THEN allowing another to line up and wait on the same runway sadly is a disaster waiting to happen. On this side of the Atlantic, a "cleared for takeoff" and "cleared for landing" is the equivalent of "the runway is clear and YOURS". We often get a "expect late landing clearance", but that is VERY different from a PIC perspective on the final approach where the workload coming into busy airports can be heavy.
We don’t use the “late landing” phraseology however, what is usually done is that if you are cleared to land but one is still departing your clearance will be “N….. cleared to land, one departure prior to your arrival”… to clue the arriving aircraft Pilots into the fact that there is an aircraft on your “cleared” runway and to pay close attention to it. Yet, that wasn’t done either…
Fully understand that this was not communicated. However, I have to admit it is very comforting that a "CTL" message coming into LHR on a gloomy day at dusk in a 25kn cross wind is an absolute and no if/and/but message.
There were 2 separate landing clearances given weren't there...?
Without this technique you would never get any planes off the ground at high traffic airports like ATL and LAS.
Yeah you are always supposed to call traffic for anyone involved with a runway where someone is in LUAW.@@user-kb8gh5jv9t
A jet almost landed on an airplane????? Sounds like another creative writing major has found a home.
That female controller caught a deal… she’s headed back to certification training big time.
We all know why.
I believe the Citation already knew this was going to be a go-around due to seeing the 737 on the runway. But they still asked to go around to make ATC aware of the situation. Who knows.
You don't need to ask to go around, and if this was at night they probably wouldn't have seen the plane on the runway. They got lucky.
Tower messed up, period.
If she had said hold short, instead of line up and wait, none of this would have been an issue. Hats off to the Citation pilot(s) for paying attention.
I will never understand why the ATC procedures in the US allow to have multiple aircraft cleared to land at the same time or having an airplane cleared to land while giving another airplane a line up clearance. Knowing how ATC procedures and phraseology work in the EU this seems absolutely bonkers to me.
You either let the southwest wait or you dont give the landing clearance to the cessna. "... one departing 737 ahead. Continue approach" and then give the landing CLEARance WHEN THE RUNWAY IS CLEAR!
Hearing stuff like "youre number 5, cleared to land" at airports like NY or LA makes me think what kind of shit these guys and the FAA are smoking
Whats even the point of line up and wait for minutes? Cant you do all the pre takeoff things when you hold short of the runway? Then just say "XYZ proceed runway 123 cleared for takeoff"
@@insomnia20422 Really? To save time to let an aircraft on a close parallel runway or a crossing runway land and pass before giving you a takeoff clearance.
AUSA controller transferred to San Diego? For all the comments about what the pilots should be doing, save it. 100% on ATC and a trash plan
Amending altitudes and routes and about to have a crash. Not cool bro.
That was a different ATC voice at the end. Either the first one was taken off after the mistake, or she chose to take herself off. She sounded a little shocked.
SAN is a crazy airport. 5 story parking garage just before the runway challenges pilots landing. Only one major runway at an international airport. Constant flow of planes taking off and landing. Not sure if much has changed since I left my hometown in 1987, but I have heard it's one of the top airports pilots hate.
As I’ve said, the clock is ticking and we are getting closer n closer to an event occurring.
A whole lot of yapping with a plane sitting on the runway, geez what is with these controllers? Can a pilot refuse a line up and wait? Crap like this gonna get somebody killed again.
Hmm this ATC lady needs a bit more training? Why have SWA line up and wait with a bird on a five mile final? And that’s just the start of the blunders
They do that all the time. The problem is she forgot about the plane on the runway and never cleared it for takeoff.
Seems like she got rattled and lost, so decided to reset.
Apologies are an option
Five miles is not an issue - happens all the time. The problem was forgetting about it.
@@rdspam five miles is fine if you tell them to take off right away, but this clown tells them to wait, then makes an altitude adjustment more important that a couple hundred lives. Fire these quota clowns.
Wow, what is happening to our Tower Friends?
Nothing. Ops normal. Things happen. I question why the Cessna waited to long to get a word in and/or descend out of minimums if the runway wasn't clear.
Way too much near misses this year. Sooner or later luck will run out. The FAA need to seriously look at this
They are a group that doesn't nothing but review these type of incidents.
Had that happen years at O'Hare; pilot had just started take-off roll when suddenly the brakes came on HARD and a moment later there was a roar as something landed right over top of us. I'd seen the approaching landing lights out my right-side window but figured that the controllers knew what they were doing when they gave the pilot permission to proceed onto the runway and takeoff. Guess not. Wonder if it was one of those 28R-28L (or maybe 27L-28L) situations.
Do you have any atc from the TUI Boeing that overran the runway in Leeds the other day?
Even says "traffic 5 mile final" is it normal for planes in the US to enter the runway ahead of landing traffic like this?
A definite FUBAR moment. Trying to do too much in a small window of opportunity.
Bad ATC error but the southwest pilot sounded a sarcastic idiot. Would he rather drop a few places down the queue or be dead? When told to move, you move, you dont ask questions.
He shouldn't be faced with that choice in the first place
Why do controllers give runway clearances to multiple airplanes at once on the hope one'll have moved out the way by the time the others are actually there? Two objects should not hold a lock on the same thing at the same time :/
Yeah agreed, this sounds like a tragedy waiting to happen. I can't think of one good reason that multiple aircraft can be cleared to use the same runway at the same time other than maybe for taxiing.
Line up and wait behind traffic departing is one thing, but two aircraft cleared to land on a runway with traffic holding in position is just stupid.
There's only one runway and it's the primary airport for a major city, they wouldn't be able to move enough airplanes though the airport if they had to space them out far enough to not give multiple clearances. Also I don't think she meant to give the Southwest flight clearance to line up, I think she misspoke and meant to ask them to hold short.
@@miguelsuarez738 Surely you can just hold off on actually clearing someone to land until the runway is actually clear?
"Airplane 1, cleared for take-off runway boopteedoop, fly heading 069"
"Cleared for take-off, heading 069, airplane 1"
"Airplane 2, traffic in front is departing, expect late clearance"
"Expect late clearance, airplane 2"
Something like this. Surely there's gotta be some way to handle this so that you don't literally clear multiple aircraft onto the same runway?
I believe that is what Towers in Europa do. They give approach clearance until runway is empty, then landing clearance.
@@alex2143 What you're describing isn't any different than what happened, it's just different wording. The approaching traffic would have to continue their approach to the runway while they're "expecting late clearance". so either they get told to go around at the last minute, or they get told that they don't have clearance at the last minute, and they have to go around. The only way what you're describing would work is to delay the incoming traffic so that there's a larger gap in traffic, giving more time for one plane to clear the runway before giving timely clearance to the next one.
Ultimately San Diego needs to build a new airport, because it's a single runway airport with strict curfews because it's so close to the city. There literally aren't enough hours in the day to handle the traffic that a city like San Diego generates with better spacing between planes.
The beginning part where you say what the video is about, we can't read that fast. Please slow down. 😢
There have been several ATC screw ups lately as evidenced on this channel and others, the same with pilots. In many cases one can see the recent push getting aircrews trained for airlines quickly is an issue world wide. The lack of understanding ATC transmissions the first time given is problematic. We often see their read back to be erroneous requiring clarification. There was a first officer monitoring radios a couple days ago that was unable to process requests from ATC. In addition the Captain had to remind him to check in with the tower for landing clearance, failed to set flaps as requested by the captain and had to have atc repeat taxi instructions after landing. This first officer was 'behind the airplane' during the entire video. The pilot had to be aware of his first officer's lack of attention to detail during a critical landing phase of flight.
You should probably consider that your perception of how many ATC screw-ups there have been might be correlated with how actively you've been following RUclips channels which report on them.
Or put another way, this has always happened but you weren't hearing about it.
@@warren_r It's not like these channels haven't existed for quite a long time.
@@warren_r NTSB held a summit last May to address the rising number of near misses and has repeatedly warned that measures should be taken. I don't think they did that because they watch too much RUclips.
didnt they fire like most of the crew when they refused to take the jab?
@@insomnia20422Right...this all comes down to COVID vaccine mandates...
Got to love that DEI
Right...all the screwups are due to women or non-white pilots and controllers, all the excellent safe people out there are white males...You go ahead and believe that. :)
I don't get it. It's a huge displaced threshhold. Normally it should be no problem having one aircraft sitting on its start and another one landing, shouldn't it? That looks like about 700 meters until the touchdown zone.
I'm also wondering this. The touchdown zone seems WELL in front of the 737. But I'm guessing that because of the size of a 737 vs that of a Cessna, especially when doing a VFR landing, it got too close for comfort.
Glad the Southwest wasn't on the takeoff roll.
Maybe they shouldn't be giving departure amendments on active tower frequency
Yeah that other is awesome as long as the radio is with it fantastic!
less than 30 meters?! wow that was CLOSE!
Wow. Any oversight of ATC these days? Pathetic.
It’s human error that in years before social media only professionals knew. Over 23 years ago, daylight landing at Denver’s east side runway, A-320 FO flying, I was looking out to the runway and something was not quite correct. The large white stripes at the threshold were not all white. There was a small twin prop plane waiting for takeoff clearance. We had been cleared to land, no mention of the plane on the runway. The tiny anti collision beacon lights were either off or not visible. I ordered a go-around and told the tower why. A voice started to speak with us then, went quiet. Another voice came on frequency and gave instructions. The aircraft behind me also announced a go-around and then the pilot of the small plane asked tower if he should vacate the runway. Things happened but the world was not immediately informed.
opps, retraining school imminent
what a mess.
A fatal near miss
1 aircraft cleared to land and the other line up and wait i know it's a screw up
Really? How do you do this? This airport has one (yes, ONE) runway.
Quotas, simple as that.
Pretty sure tower controllers are suppose to issue a "Continue" to landing aircraft until the departing aircraft begins its takeoff roll or the runway is clear.
Not at the majority of airports in the US. You can get a landing clearance even with an aircraft on the runway. Some airports don’t allow line up and wait. Other countries have different rules that don’t give landing clearance with an aircraft on the runway.
@@XetraRewop From the AIM: "ATC will normally withhold landing clearance to arrival aircraft when another aircraft is in position and holding on the runway."
@@MartyMitchell92660 agreed. Although I have flown into many major airports worldwide, and some US controllers don’t always follow the procedures closely. Key word is “normally” i.e. “not always”
If I’m lined up, I closely monitor all radio traffic and TCAS and get very antsy if someone is on final and will voice my concern.
If I’m on final and any vehicle is on the runway, my thumb is on that Go-Around switch ready to go.
@@XetraRewop My home airport is John Wayne, Orange County Airport. The controllers are religious about not clearing anyone to land when someone is holding on the runway. Might be different at other airports. Good to listen carefully, as you said, and have good situational awareness.
I'm looking at the offset threshold for 27 and thinking, wow they do things a bit sporty in the US, having one lined up on the undershoot and landing one over the top, whereas in the UK it's one only on the active runway at a time. Then I realised, no actually ATC just really screwed up.
Scary to think of airports that don’t require all communications on frequency to be in English. Like YUL. The plane on the runway is a sitting duck as is… but taking away the ability to situationally aware is even more dangerous.
when alls pilots are talking in english and don't aware about atc mistake. scary....
This has been happening pretty frequently lately, with Southwest jets involved multiple times. Why the hurry to put a passenger jet in front of another on approach with landing clearance?.
Because if you don't you never get any traffic through your runway. I believe San Diego is the busiest single runway airport in the USA.
“…line up and *wait*”???? Um, no ma’am, “expedite” would have been more appropriate.
Southwest guys should have drawn attention to themselves as well as they had the information that the citation was 5 miles out by the time they were lining up… they were just waiting for their fate … also poor situational awareness from their side.
another number to copy for ATC...
How come the pilot does ask the tower for a phone number, "Possible ATC deviation?"
Because that’s like pulling over a police officer. Not impossible but not the best idea.
In these scenarios the pilots would file a flight safety report that makes its way up the ranks.
I know, be facetious .@@XetraRewop
@@BobABooey. all good. I know it was a joke.
Although I have called ATC after flights to chew them out for not doing their job right. Why should us pilots take all the beating? 😂
"fly the published missed approach"
The pilot has in his possession a chart for that particular airport. In the event of a missed approach or ordered "go around" the chart will indicate instructions such as, "Climb and maintain 3000' and fly runway heading."
She should have verbally added, "oh no everyone, I really screwed up. It has been nice knowing you. I'll be getting my exit briefing shortly."
@@waldoinaz Except that wasn't the ATC that screwed up, it was a different lady. Probably the supervisor that stepped in when the collision alarms went off in the tower.
Too bad there isn’t a phone number pilots can have the tower controller copy down to call.
Some day, controllers will be replaced by bots.
A position and hold should never be given when another aircraft has been given the runway to land.
Obviously that's never going to come to fruition, but I'd really hate to be crushed by a landing heavy because ATC told me to hold on the active. Maybe we should do like the Railroads and just have a tower-controlled light that's green when the runway is clear, and red when someone else is on the numbers?
Can you be given a line up and wait far back on the runway behind the "lines" with the expectation that a plane will land over you? I've seen this multiple times recently and can't find any information on whether this is allowed or if this is the whole problem? (btw I'm obviously not a pilot or I'd know the answer I'm sure)
@@zachansen8293 No, that's explicitly disallowed by federal regulations.
@@HiddenWindshield So what exactly are they waiting on (in normal situations) if they're lining up and waiting? A plane taking off ahead of them? A plane on a missed approach?
Why is it unsafe? When it is done the landing aircraft is told that an airplane will be waiting for takeoff. We call that a shared mental model -- everyone knows what's going on. They also only do this during good visibility. YES, in Austin with SWA and FDX the controller screwed up and stupid SWA accepted the clearance.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or While yes, other aircraft should share the mental picture of what's going on, the reality is that at busy airports a crash is a single point of failure away from occurring. This SWA was attempting to contact the tower but the tower was busy talking to someone else and the communication was blocked. The only other thing the LUV pilot could have done was taxi clear of the runway on his own. That's obviously not a position anyone wants to be in.
Good visibility is a question mark. There are so many times where the sun is just right, or the rain is just right to obscure an aircraft until a go around will only add energy to the crash. I've been flying since 2005, and in my opinion position and hold is a ticking time bomb.
For the people who are confused: A landing clearance is not an instruction to land.
"For the people who are confused: A landing clearance is not an instruction to land."
ATP here with decades in this industry. What the heck are you trying to say? Are you saying just because you were cleared to land doesn't mean you have to?
@@JohnSmith-zi9or He's saying exactly that. It's a method of flaunting his knowledge without really saying much of anything.
It’s poorly written. He means: go-around is always an option.
@@JohnSmith-zi9or
I am making a comment in response to all the people who seem to believe the problem was clearing the 2 on final for landing.
It sounds as if you understand what I was saying, but didn't understand why I said it.
Sorry to confuse a fellow ATP with decades of experience in the industry.
I think it would be extremely instructive to learn what the ATC was thinking. Like, this could have been a training gap (perhaps "line up and wait" meant something else to her), or maybe she organized something incorrectly, or perhaps she didn't understand the speed of the incoming aircraft, or maybe she read off an instruction prepared by someone else and didn't clue in that it felt wrong.
A lot of people ripping on someone who made a mistake, but that doesn't get you anywhere. Be humble, put yourself in her chair, and ask how you might get confused in the same way.
F that. I am not an ATC, and I know that "Line up and wait, traffic on a 5 mile final" is just stupid. Send her back to starbucks.
the MAN without flaws@@allgrainbrewer10
I think the pilot Landing should listen to what's going on at the airport he would know the other plane was cleared enter the runway and vice versa for the Southwest
The approaching pilot was listening, that's why he asks the controller to confirm that he's still cleared to land before she tells him to go around.
How about they just stop doing this.
He was. That's why he kept asking to confirm that he was clear to land.
@@ChucklesMcGurk Why not? Plenty of time to take of, if the controller hadn't gotten distracted with other things and issued the takeoff clearance.
As others have said, the Cessna WAS paying attention. Maybe you should listen again. ATC screwed up and almost caused a disaster. She should have AT LEAST apologized. 🙄
Pilot to Tower you're ready. I have a number for you to call we're going to tattletale on you
Don't worry everyone...she's still employed. Granted, it's not in the aviation sector rather she was picked up by Burger King. "A whopper with cheese...would you like fries with that sir?"
This makes me not want to fly, all these screwups, it a matter of time before something bad happens.
Everything was fine. Screwups like this are rare but still happen from time to time, which is why planes have automatic collision avoidance systems now.
@@miguelsuarez738 "automatic collision avoidance" my understanding is those don't work when taking off/landing because they would always be going off. You're supposed to be getting close enough to other planes that it would be going off. (obv not this close)
@@zachansen8293 I was mistaken, in the text at the beginning of the video it said that collision warning alarms alerted the controller, I thought it said ATACS warned the citation. But in either case, there was an automatic system that served as a backup to the controllers human error. Plus it sounds like the Cessna pilot realized that the SWA 737 had not taken off yet, because he asks to confirm his clearance to land before ATC tells him to go around. So there were multiple things preventing this from being worse than it was.
I disagree, they are not rare ! @@miguelsuarez738
Tower, Southwest 2493, I have a number for you to call, possible controller deviation. Advise when ready to copy.
*SWA2493:* _Lindbergh Tower, Southwest 2493 - Possible runway incursion due to conflicting air traffic control clearances, we have a phone number for you, advise when ready to copy_
*N564HV:* _Southwest 2493, Citation 4HV - We concur with your last_