A 777 Pilot Weighs In On GreenDot & MenTour Pilot's MH370 Theories (Episode 30)
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- Опубликовано: 9 апр 2024
- In Episode 30, Jeff and Andy go deeper than they've ever gone before on a question that's the crux of the whole MH370 mystery. It's a topic which is newly important because a bunch of viral MH370 videos have come out that spend a lot of time discussing it and, they'll argue, are getting it wrong.
To help with this important task, the podcast invited a very special guest, Juan Browne, an experienced airline pilot and the host of the popular aviation channel Blancolirio on RUclips.
More information at the Deep Dive show page:
www.deepdivemh370.com/p/30-a-...
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Many thanks to Juan Browne:
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I love Mentour pilot and Greendot's channels. They are brilliantly informative, engaging and professionally presented. I think I've watched them all and continue to watch them over and over again. Such exceptional quality from people effectively creating content in their spare time. 👍👍👍
I never even realised Blancolirio was an airline pilot until recent. He’s such a decent and knowledgeable guy.
I also have a lot of respect for Mentour Pilot.
They're definitely smart and accomplished guys who are excellent in two very different domains: podcasting and flying. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 Mentour (Petter) is also an airline pilot and instructor, and Juan and Petter have met and talked many times. They do their shows differently but they both have huge boeng experience, Petter on 737, Juan on 57 67 77.
It's like listening to Beavis and Butthead commmenting in aviation videos instead of MTV. From 44 mins, the only worth listening to is Juans comments
If the equipment cooling fan shuts off, there’s an alternate mode which uses the aircraft’s differential pressure to provide ventilation to the E/E compartment. True he would’ve been extremely busy but selection of that mode is unnecessary as it is activated automatically. Assuming above average system knowledge on the Captain’s part, he would’ve known that. Actually average system knowledge would include this information. Just my two bits as a 12 year 777 pilot. His instruments overheating would’ve been the least of his worries. Great discussion. Always enjoy Blancolirio and Mentour Pilot’s videos👍
Great to hear your perspective. I always enjoy hearing what 777 pilots have to say. What do you think about the idea of shutting down the left AC bus (at least) for no apparent benefit? Do you agree that that's something that most 777 pilots wouldn't even think about, let alone carry out? /JW
When you have Juan Browne and even Ron Rogers ( retired UA B777 captain ) on RUclips, it’s going to be good
Really enjoy my weekly mystery demystifying. Thanks guys. Loved the book Jeff and you did great on your solo ep
You're too kind, really appreciate your support. /JW
Jeff, I love when you said "I'm trying to basically pry people's fingers off a sense of certainty surrounding this scenario". This is spot on! It seems like people are almost emotionally attached to the theory that Zaharie is responsible, to the extent that they won't entertain any other theories. In my opinion, the idea that Zaharie carried this out is just as insane as any other theory.
Thanks for another great episode! Glad I became a member! I really enjoy both of your dedication to this mystery.
Thank you so much. Couldn't agree more about Zaharie. /JW
Indeed..I agree with you. A lot of people are so hooked on The Zaharie Theory that it will be so difficult for them to look at other theories objectively.
It's completely normal to have a nearly identical self-ending flight scenario on a home computer, correct?
This is probably the most relevant and objective episode so far. A sophisticated hi jacking scenario involving the satnav/sdu would necessitate elaborate pre-planning even from a crew very experienced flying the 777. This logically would involve studying all available documentation including the bus distribution list. Did you check with JB whether he was aware of the existence/availabilty of such a document back in 2014?
Great question. I think it's been established that documents which were publicly available at the time included sufficient information for somoene to determine which pieces of equipment were on which bus, so it's not impossible to imagine a determined perp (in this case presumably Zaharie) could figure out how to turn off a piece of equipment in this way -- but the big question remains why they would do so. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 @JW hmmm- From what I had read (Including one of your detailed blog posts about the SDU), I had been under the impression that there was neither a bus list published for the 777, nor did crews asked know where to find that information. If true that the crew could easily obtain the information that changes my outlook on possible scenarios. Could the reason for the action perhaps be to prevent the one other crew member from having a chance to use the cabin satellite phone?
I think you are lucky to have Juan Brown on your podcast - his Blancolirio channel is exceptional and mainly deals in facts and evidence with clear logical explanations of cause and outcome and what may have prevented this. Completely different from this case where it’s mostly conjecture and speculation - really not his area to get involved in.
Yeah Vatos, it's very interesting how you vatos are laying it all down. I really enjoy listening to the both of you. Thanks vatos😊
I'm so glad to have found this channel since almost no-one out there seems to want to counter the cut-and-dry conspiracies which bend all rational analysis of facts to *try to* make it so Zaharie planned it. I've long argued against this in various forums snce it would have involved incredible risk, skill and genius-level knowledge (of things that investigators and even manufacturers didn't know yet) - all for an incredibly complex plan to line up a sequence of events which had to play out exactly right... yet, as you put it, "all in the service of no apparent benefit". Outside of Marvel super-villians, it makes *no* sense for someone to commit suicicde like this - and even then *no-one* could plan and pull that off deliberately!
There's one thing Mentour Pilot said that I found instructive, I think he makes a good case that Zahari sounded distracted on the last recorded comms. Realistically, time wise whatever was done to take control of the plane must surely have been underway at that point anyway.
Then you have the French documentary (complete with bad AI translated English commentary) that revealed the Co-Pilot's documented history of inviting random passengers into the cockpit and his general laxness about security procedures... (go to 23:45 here) ruclips.net/video/IZ4gHPwdkyI/видео.html
These points are both true; I question how probative they are, though. There are a lot of things that can cause a mild amount of stress, and the fact that the copilot once let some pretty girls into the cockpit does not mean that he did so on that particular night. /JW
Actually if you listen to the last two calls you can hear significant STATIC increases and that is an indication of the wiring being tampered with so could definitely have been from someone in the electronics bay and that distraction could be that the pilot was noticing these odd interferences and calling in the same level twice is commonly to test audio so that’s what that seems to be. I do not believe anyone would’ve been in the cockpit yet, however once the last call was made it’s highly possible the Captain handed it over to Copilot to fly with autopilot to step out and get coffee and food as that’s the most common time a pilot would leave to get food
There’s nothing abnormal about the last 3 radio calls. The reduction in quality and slight change to Zaharie’s voice is easily explained by him using the hand held mic(many do once in cruise).
Repeating FL350 calls are typically used as a hint to ATC for a level change or frequency change or something else quite mundane.
Speaking quicker in a transmission could also be for some other normal mundane reason..perhaps he needed to go to the loo, perhaps the cabin had buzzed him at the same time, perhaps radio congestion required him to squeeze a call in between other transmissions.
"Zaharie sounded distracted on the last recorded comms".
Well, something happened to the plane and 239 living people.
The official Safety Investigation concluded that, whilst nothing could be known and confirmed, there was a lot about the mh370 evidence which suggested anecdotally more that the plane was intelligently controlled than that it was flying itself.
So what might be a distracted voice in a radio message (which I didn't hear myself, though I do note some people believe it and I won't argue against that) is to be expected whatever really did happen to mh370.
If indeed the last communication showed a distracted voice, is it more likely this would be because a pilot was quite calmly putting into place his suicide plan, or because someone was holding a gun to the back of his neck and someone else was holding a gun to the head of his co-pilot beside him?
If the last message did come from a slightly distracted voice, that can't really in itself tell us anything about what really happened.
Some people hypothesise a remote takeover or hacked flight of the fly-by-wire plane which, if you really do a bit of research, all experts say is not only possible but ah increasingly worrying situation for the world of flying. Within that theory, it would be possible the last message didn't even come from Zaharie but a computer generated message deep fake voice.
@@TimHickmott I appreciate that feedback. Can you explain to me how a hand held mic works and if that means he could technically have left the cockpit with that mic, or is it connected to the cockpit?
I don’t think it is too hard to understand what is powered by the left bus. You could probably find that manual online. Hand flying at cruise altitude is the real problem. The flight envelope is very narrow at cruise altitude and would require very focused attention.
Jeff, let me first say thank you for this podcast. As an avid reader of your blog from 2017-18, I was fascinated by this mystery, and you kept referring to the SDU reboot as the crucial part of getting to the bottom of it. At first I thought this podcast was too long-winded, but it is my kind of content exactly: long-form, meticolous, but not long-winded at all!
In a previous comment I already asked about the particulars of the Green Dot and Mentour Pilot counter-arguments, and you promised that in a later episode, this on point discussion will happen. And now a 777 pilot chimes in - great stuff!
I still have some questions - but that's just the nature of this mystery, ain't it? 😄
So what the 777 pilot kept on saying was "you don't ever mess with those switches, unless you are instructed to do so by an emergency checklist". So far so good and logical. But my next question would have been: "Are there any emergency drills - done in professional aviation-grade flight simulators - that involve responding to an emergency by handling those switches?" So as an absolute layman, my guess is that in flight sims, the airline pilots are simulating various emergencies so they can practice instrument failure, unfavorable weather conditions and other kind of dangerous scenarios which are calling for the use of emergency checklists. How often do pilots practice this? How many of them involve those switches?
The point of this question is: you demonstrated that a regular 777 pilot during normal operation would never ever even touch that panel - but practicing emergency scenarious should happen often, so if those emergencies often involve the power system switches, then even a regular 777 pilot should have some experience in what exactly happens when each of those switches are operated.
So putting on my Devil's Advocate hat, if you allow me 🙂 Right now, as I understand your argument, Jeff, we should not assume that Zaharie ever went deep into how the electrical system of a 777 works, since we have no evidence of him tampering with these switches on previous flights, etc. But maybe by practicing emergency scenarios he could have got some experience with this, and maybe "found" a configuration (with or without intentionally looking for it) that allowed him to shut down the SDU and some more systems that were irrelevant for his goal at hand, and then later he switched the systems back on, thus rebooting the SDU?
And let me tell you: this investigation is not about what is possible or what is not possible (your "walking on my hands" analogy is spot on!), but about creating scenarios that are viable to explain all the facts surrounding this SDU reboot, and then choosing one that best fits the big picture (barnacles and all that!) So it has to bee a deep dive (no pun intended!) into that panel, maybe there should be switch by switch breakdown of what happens if the pilot turns off this one, then that one, etc. We have simulators to be able to test that - although again, a 777 pilot's help might be needed to test how viable is the scenario of Zaharie gaining experience on this during simulated emergency drills, and maybe if that 777 pilot would be so kind and think about if someone's goal is to cut power to the SDU, what would be the simplest way for him to do it from the cockpit, etc.
Many-many more things to explore about this crucial point, and as of now (took me long enough, listening to 30 eps), but now I'm convinced that you guys are really enthusiastic about this mystery to go through these - and many other - aspects in a thorough manner - your track record (including the excellent jeffwise.net blog) proves that so far 😀
So Jeff - would you be able to ask this - or a different - 777 pilot in a later episode about emergency drills? Or any other training material that 777 pilots are regularly subjected to, that would cover the functionality of the switches on that panel? Maybe we can craft a scenario that matches the facts, maybe we can't but it's fascinating to learn more and more about MH370 and aviation in general, that's for sure 😄
Thank your this. I really appreciate your kind words and the time you've taken to listen to all of these episodes (and read my blog!). I'm glad that you think that these questions are worth exploring, because I very much want to continue to explore them and actually already have another 777 pilot lined up, and will include your follow-up questions when I talk to him. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 Excellent news, thank you Jeff for this, and all of your efforts you are investing into solving MH370!
Re the oddity that Zaharie repeated his altitude 6 mins or so after it was already confirmed with ATC, what I've never heard about is whether the he had a habit of repetition when speaking with ATC.
It may be / have been interesting to listen to previous conversations with ATC (if available), and whether previous co-pilots were aware of such a repetition habit.
Not that I suspect Zaharie per se, but would be good to rule out this oddity as having any significance.
I realise that this repeat of altitude would've been mentioned in an early episode, but I just thought about this just now.
You could be right, but I'm just not sure how following this line of inquiry would bring us closer to any answers. For my money, it's pure speculation to read any meaning into the repeated call, so I don't see much value to be derived from ascertaining whether he repeated calls frequently or not. /JW
I guess I’m an expert having 15000 hours on 777s and worked for Asian carriers for more than 20 years.
I’m always frustrated by people’s need for absolute certainty. Aviation accidents are almost always a strange and seemingly unlikely series of events. I don’t know what happened; some sort of human input seems likely but as you say is by no means certain. Someone taking over the plane could have left everything on and flown out to sea unmolested because at 3am doing 500 kts nobody is going to catch up with you in that region.
A few points:
- you don’t need the cooling fans for avionics at altitude, differential pressure will do the job.
- I have no idea how all the stuff on a 777 works, beyond a basic description that detail is not available, you need access to manufacturer documentation and assistance and you’d leave a massive trail.
- depowering and repowering the aircraft is no big deal, but I have no idea how it would affect the Satellite connection. For all I know it could have a backup battery for power transitions. Probably not but who knows?
-based on a piece of interior panel amongst the wreckage found it is likely the aircraft broke up on impact and is scattered on the sea floor. We’ll probably never know what happened.
I'm delighted to have 777 pilots weighing in. This a great point you make here -- that even after doing a lot of research Zaharie wouldn't have been 100% positive what effects turning off the left AC bus would have. Given that it had no apparent benefit for his plan, I think that's a huge red flag. /JW
One more thing from the GD vid - at 13:24 he says that the final signal of the transponder proves that it it was turned off manually (ie that this wasn't an electrical fire or other accident). Would you guys agree with this? Would one go even slightly further and say.... does this prove that the transponder was switched off from the cockpit? It seems hard to come up with scenarios where one or other pilot wasn't at least an accomplice if this is true.
There’s NO evidence that the transponder was turned off manually. GD was just quoting what other independent, self appointed experts have claimed. There have been no trials as to what happens to the ADS-B signals when the transponder is turned off in flight. If anything, the last two ADS-B zero altitude values show a failing system- but I would only be guessing, much like the self appointed experts!
Great point. Maybe we should do an episode about this... /JW
Its good you keep asking questions. Keep it up .
I'm wondering, if Zaharie was the reason mh370 went missing, if his internet history has been released, covered and shows anything? Or was he asking any of his friends questions about 777's? Did he have any manuals or notes on 777s? If these dont show anything connected to powering off the various systems, that's a gaping hole in the s'cide/flying to a secret airfield theories.
How did he know and plan this complex chain of events would work (surely there would be evidence somewhere that he planned it?), and seemingly get away with it.
To me, the complexity doesn't support s'cide, the official story really sounds like a cover-up , perhaps of a state sanctioned operation.
You raise an excellent point -- there really isn't anything in Zaharie's background at all, including his known internet use, that suggests either an inclination toward this sort of thing or planning towards it. /JW
He made this exact journey in his home simulator then tried to delete the evidence
Mentour Pilot basically was saying he personally thought it was active pilot with criminal intent to the end, hiding aircraft in the SIO someplace. That is obviously *probably* what happened, but many aviation groups (especially ATSB and others who are leading search strategy decisions) are opposed to considering pilot intent unless it can be pre-proven to the 100% level. The current consensus is pilot intent is only proven to the 100% level until about Arc2. Green Dot basically supported the ghost flight from Arc2 narrative. Credit to Blelly/Marchand/Mentour for bravery (going against aviation community group-think) to consider pilot intent to end of fight, but I suspect they have not yet grasped the nature of an active pilot plight path. They are basically suggesting near equivalence to ghost flight after Arc2, with glide at end. I do not think that is how it went down.
Jeff- saying a nefarious pilot would be adverse to unorthodox cockpit settings is denial, and basically you are exploiting public/aviation community reluctance to admit and fully explore the politically-incorrect reality of probable criminal intent to end of flight. How can an aircraft vanish? Because the pilot is allowed to turn everything off, instantly and secretly and protected by Fort Knox doors (in a 2014 vintage B777 anyways).
It's interesting that you think that Blelly/Marchand are brave for going against aviation community groupthink; from my perspective the pilot murder/suicide scenario has long been the default narrative. True, the ATSB did not say as much in their final report, and I think you're right in assuming that they didn't want to accuse him of such a heinous crime given their lack of absolute certainty, but behind the scenes I think Australian officials, was well as influenial independent commentators like the Independent Group, quite strongly believe that Zaharie did it.
As for the second part of your comment, I don't see why you need to stoop to making an ad-hominem attack. If you think that shutting off a 777's entire electrical bus is no big deal, then I think you should make a case for that position, rather than attacking me for even raising the issue. How is that Blelly/Marchand are courageous for challenging assumptions, but I am a villain for doing the same? /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 Many in the aviation industry have a huge issue with public being told what likely happened. The fear is that the public would ask "why do we let nefarious pilots turn off Xponder/etc. and fly off to Never-Never Land." Hence we have industry denial of varying degrees, varying degrees of ghost flights, even though behind closed doors the industry knows what apparently happened: which is the pilot flew off and hid the plane. Not everyone has this denial, but the loud voices taking control are those who have a conviction that the public needs to cool their heels for several decades before we can tell the public what happened. This head-in-sand approach allows further pijackings to happen, which they have.
I’m surprised you didn’t even ask Juan about turning on and off the SDU! Or if he knew how to do it. I thought that would be the first question.
You mean, if he would know how to do it? You're right, I should have. I asked this question of 777s pilots back in 2014 and they all said "The what??" Juan does kind of make this point when he says that for someone to do something like this they would have had to do research beforehand into the system because 777 pilots wouldn't off the top of their heads which equipment is on which bus. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370I am curious why the conversation around this is always that a single pilot done everything or a single hijacker done everything? Why couldn’t the pilot have been working together with other people, or the hijacker’s in a brigade of people?
@@queendomofethelpodcast4662 It just takes more than one hijacker and everything which can be puzzling about mh370 instantly becomes trouble-free. This is what I conclude happened.
Your idea that there were hijackers AND that Zaharie was willingly helping them, was a part of them, is a bit bizarre though.
@@lecochonbleu it’s just a possibility I am suggesting is worth checking. I agree that it is most likely a hacker, however I personally believe this was more likely a group who had a specific plan, and with the times of radio calls and some other interesting background aspects that is what leads me to say it’s worth checking if the pilot was part of that, however that said I do not believe he was ever planning to kill people or himself and believe they landed the plane somewhere and changed the flight path and that’s how he was still very calm when going to work
@@queendomofethelpodcast4662
I agree with you about that there was a number of hijackers. They could well have used the captain, forcing him to do things for them. You're free of course to theorise what you want but I can't work out how it could be that he was actually involved with hijackers.
He was a top-class pilot for decades, one of the most respected senior pilots of the airline, flying people every week, a number of times per week, always taking the safety of hundreds of people in his hands and always making sure to transport them safely and get them back to terra firma to get on with their lives. All of this is done only with the great sense of responsibility for his passengers which a pilot had.
Suddenly, then, to be a part of some hijackers, going against everything he's done day after day for most of his life, doesn't add up to me.
I wonder if any of the washed up wreckage, like the flapperon, Roy, and no step have been available to see if there is evidence of being disassembled. By possibly examining what is left of the edges, I think if there could be saw marks, places that show to have been pressed by tools, or even if the process of disassembly is done with a plasma cutter or welding torch the metal would also hopefully have signs of being worked. Probably a long shot in making the case for eveidence, given the ocean's own abuse may be too much to distinguish where said markings could have come from.
This is a great question. Something that I've spent a fair bit of time looking at, but haven't yet discussed on the show, is the pattern of mechanical breakage that investigators found in the recovered debris items. It's actually quite interesting... /JW
I respect both JB and the Swede. I have not come across Green Dot recently. I will say before watching that I think the WSPR data might be credible, but I'd need to hear your take before I'm comfortable with sticking by that - and ocean currents will obviously distort everything.
Quick note: the blancolirio channel is about aviation as well as about water management in the southwest US. Aviation is used as a tool in exploring the water management. _Very_ smart guy.
Come to think of it, the Mentour and Green Dot theory does seem like a "let's just invent something that's compatible with the flight path evidence and also requires a lot of assuming incompetence".
I watched Green Dot after I watched this episode the first time (and now I'm back watching it for the second time). One thing GD makes apparent was the long length of time (20 minutes plus?) when at most one person aboard the plane knew what was going on and everyone else must just have been in panic and horror. It's a terrible mental image. The biggest problem with GD is that he just throws out statements that have no proof. So, for example, he talks about Fariq Hamid's movements - he has no evidence for this (right?). So when he then goes on to talk about the simulator history I'm left wondering - does he actually have data for the assertions he makes about the timing of Zaharie's simulation runs?
It's true that Zaharie ran a suspicious-looking simulator run a month before the disappearance, but it's not as cut-and-dried evidence for his guilt as Green Dot suggests. We discuss the topic in Episode 23. /JW
Hi, is there a decent video that focuses on listing hard facts and evidence to date, and their sources? Im not interested in conjecture. Thank 🙏
I think the closest thing to what you're requesting would be my book, "The Taking of MH370." Perhaps at the end of this podcast series we should attempt a final summation of everything we know. /JW
In the episode Andy suggested that Zaharie's flight simulator 'probably' wasn't sophisticated enough to simulate what would happen when shutting down the electrics and STU, but surely the answer to that question is absolutely knowable and essential to the whole debate. If it can be simulated then it would have been and suddenly Zaharie's plan seems far more easily achieved. Can you confirm?
Microsoft Flight Simulator X is a pretty crude piece of software, even compared to modern home flight simulators, let alone professional simulators used for airline pilot training. I don't think anyone would expect it to accurately model with wiring of a real 777. /JW
Upon complete electrical system shut-down - due to malfunction or nefarious actions - the 777 has mechanical backup via cables to 2 of the 14 spoilers for roll control and also to the horizontal stabilizer for pitch control. The aircraft CAN be flown with the entire electrical system turned OFF (above the Captain on the overhead panel) with the auto-deploying RAT (Ram Air Turbine) supplying hydraulic and electrical power until electrical service can be restored.
This means that the aircraft could have easily been flown for several hours in this configuration until the engines flamed out.
Yes, absolutely, it can be flown. I guess my goal with this episode is to try to counter the assumption that the SDU reboot is no big deal because the pilots can just easily switch the entire electrical system on and off with no fear of the consequences. In reality, they would be extremely loathe to do so, so much so that this idea should be considered a major weakness in the pilot-suicide scenario. /JW
Hi Jeff, I agree with your deductions. My son is on that plane. Do you think remote control of the plane is in the picture ? Thanks for your good work for us.
Thank you, I'm so glad you find value in our work. I don't think that remote control of the plane is in the picture because, while it's been speculated that the necessary technology exists, there's no evidence it was installed on the plane. /JW
Hey here’s a thought, perhaps someone in conjunction with the pilot stowed away in the electrical bay, just to cycle the SDU?? It’s not uncommon for maintenance people to walk into the plane at any given moment during the preflight checks. Mind you, it would mean they also went missing. This could have been a likely scenario if they flew the plane north instead of south. Stuff of mystery, very interesting and compelling to say the least.
Thank you! The major problem with the pilot being behind a spoof scenario is that it's so sophisticated that it really would require state-level expertise to pull off, I think. /JW
Surely if you’re saying the guy deliberately killed everyone on board, himself included, you can hardly apply the same standard of safety consciousness to him as to other trip-7 pilots? Why wouldn’t he switch the power off? If it went down there and then; job done!
Really enjoying the podcast. I respect the reasoned and rational discussion and scientific approach to this incredible mystery. Great work. Keep it up
Thank you, so glad you're enjoying it.
From the title I was expecting more from Juan. His PIA Flight 8303 video was presented well, but I've not watched anything else from him.
We can hypothesise:
the Captain's last radio contact sounded a little higher in pitch because he had noticed something and was dealing with that, but no cause for alarm hence no mayday;
if a mayday was made it was after all connection to the ground was lost and futile;
the cockpit going dark would make the First Officer get his phone out for the flashlight as well as trying to make contact with the ground.
Can we assume the cockpit door unlocked? Regardless of who is to blame, that does leave the cockpit vulnerable which is worrying.
These are all reasonable ideas, but there's no evidence for or against them. /JW
What I find interesting is that the co-pilot's phone is apparently the ONLY cell phone that connected to the cell tower in Penang. It stands to reason that a few of the passengers' phones would have connected, whether they were dead or alive. Did Shah instruct the passengers to turn their phones off? Possibly the co-pilot had been locked out of the cockpit, and suspecting that Shah had bad intentions, left his cell phone on hoping to call to the ground, or at least to leave some evidence of the plane's location.
Yes, it is uncanny that of all the 239 people on the plane, it was the co-pilot's phone that connected at Penang. It does make you wonder if he knew something, or was able to do something, that no one else could. /JW
Could be that reception is better in the flight deck? I’ve sometimes left mine on and had a bunch of “welcome to” messages from overflying countries.
*I was expecting you guys to ask this Blancolirio guy to answer the questions raised by greendot and mentour pilots about someone turning these Electrical buses from the cockpit, he said that you should not do it but what will happen if its actually turned off by someone?*
I'm sorry, could you explain? /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 The Blancolirio guy said in general terms that one should not mess with the Electrical system but I was expecting you would ask him okay, that is fine, but what if someone actually does this during the flight, what happens then? Would we see a scenario that was mentioned by greendot and Mentour Pilot or the outcome would be different? You also mentioned that you could see one flaw in the reasoning from greendot in the Electronic compartment things were getting hot, where in reality very few electronic systems were running. I want to know if you could ask blancolirio to actually answer this scenario in practical terms rather than simply saying that one should not mess with electric systmes.
@@RustamShahI think the main point was that virtually nobody knows what would happen when you turn off the electric circuit, including pilots, because it's considered far too dangerous to do so. That is, except in an absolute emergency when you're trying to save the plane anyway, when you don't have a choice and there isn't exactly a worse situation than the situation already facing the plane at that time. You can't just try it out in flight and consumer grade flight simulators also don't include this option to try in a safe space.
The guest pilot stressed the very real fears of not knowing actually what kind of things can go wrong and might not be able to be put right in time if you do experiment with the electrical circuits.
Jeff made the point that disabling the electric circuits to turn off the communications was nothing required by Zaharie if he had wanted to crash the plane and kill himself and everyone else. Moreover, disabling electrics complicates all practicalities in any such intended suicide situation and along with other moves which mh370 made such as flying over Butterworth combined Air Forces base, could well end such an attempt. Therefore it doesn't even make sense that Zaharie would do that within this suicide theory.
In itself this known element of the mh370 mystery is just another argument going for that the murder - suicide hypothesis doesn't make sense in the end.
Petter on Mentor Pilot evens says he does not like to speculate, and that’s why he hadn’t done an MH370 video. However, he thought enough time passed and his number one reason for doing this video is to get a new search started.
I am convinced it was pilot suicide, committed by the Captain.
Very interesting, Gentlemen, thank you. Does anyone know how much time Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah spent on his home simulator? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? IF he was planning suicide, then he would have taken his time to meticulously plan it. Could the crucial top-secret American military base at Diego Garcia, Indian Ocean (which also has some of the most important C.I.A. floating bases) have anything to do with the disappearance of MH 370? I am sure you know, that B-2 Bombers and B-1B Lancers take off and land there.
Yes, the flight simulator data does show how often he used it, and it seems like he was on it fairly frequently. Although there was one flight to the southern Indian Ocean, it doesn't seem like he planned it meticulously, and nothing like the turnback at IGARI or a steep final plunge. As for Diego Garcia, a connection has been proposed but the plane couldn't have flown anywhere near there, if the Inmarsat data is real (which I assume it is). /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 Thank you for your reply. Another possibility: Could the two male Iranians on board with stolen passports have hijacked the aircraft? I know they were desperate to get to Europe; it seems bizarre that they would want to go to Beijing! In my opinion, these two were not looked into deeply enough.
@lynnchateau2313
There were hundreds of little flight simulations saved from Zaharie's home machine but not one of them showed any preparation at all for putting an airplane into the sea by any manner at all, whether in a slow, controlled ditch or a fast dive or anything in between.
Re the SDU shutdown and reboot in the mechanical accident scenario…..if the crew oxygen bottles were to rupture in the left side of the avionics bay, there would be physical damage to the wiring…it might have been ELMS(electrical load management system) that load shed the L Main bus initially. Then after 1 hour as ELMS failed due to the main battery(the battery is a power source to ELMS) going flat, so power then returned to the SDU.
But then what? A ghost flight to the south? /JW
Yes, with damage to the left side of the avionics bay, damaged electrics will include L transponder/Satcom/Comms. The autopilot/autothrottle will fail when the pitot/static feeds are damaged to the flight control computers putting the flight controls into ‘secondary mode’. Any decompression(possibly slow) not noticed initially by the pilots due to instrument failures(TRUs that power screens are near the crew O2 bottles). After the IGARI turn the crew become hypoxic and the flight meanders on with no one at the controls.
Zaharie with only a RAT TURBINE confused all the worlds aviation experts and pilots 😂
Exactly...
Do you think he was cunning?
I believe that the best way to navigate through life is to cultivate an attitude of not being sure.
Very well put. Couldn't agree more. /JW
Jeff, On My PMDG 777-200ER simulator, if I isolate the left AC bus (i.e. cut off any electricity from it) I get an ECAM a warning message stating the Satellite Terminal is off line.
So let's go through the options to turn off the satellite.
1) Just de-activate the left AC Bus. Can you please confirm from Juan if he could check in the real simulator that would take offline the satellite terminals? If this is so then this would be the less dangerous way of getting the aircraft satellite terminals off line.
2) Turn off APU and all generators. This will deploy the RAT. The aircraft would be flying with minimal systems. However, this would very likely take all the aircraft satellite terminals off line.
3) Go down to the avionics bay and pull the appropriate circuit breakers. Issues are how would he know which ones to pull. Also not enough time to get down the avionics bay. SO THIS OPTION CAN BE REALISTICALLY ELIMINATED.
Jeff if ok with you can you confirm with Juan that the best options from the pilots point of view to take the Satelllite terminals off line are:
FIRSTLY OPTION 1
SECONDLY OPTION 2
Your analysis of the situation matches the general consensus. (I don't think we need to ask Juan, as I don't think there's anything controversial about your assumptions here.)
I keep hearing people talking about what if the pilot did commit suicide, however so few people seem to ever ask what if the pilot did it but didn’t commit suicide and didn’t crash that plane but rather used the flight simulator for coordinating flight path to use when spoofing INMARSAT data so he could land somewhere for some goal.
I don't think there's any conceivable way that Zaharie could have had the technical chops to conceive of, let alone execute, a hack of the Inmarsat data. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 I agree. I am not suggesting it was only the pilot, but rather that he could’ve been connected to other people who did have technical knowledge of how to change that data.
Weak, dumb questions for Juan. We are not discussing a normal pilot who wants to land at Heathrow.
Of course the "fire on board" theory holds water!!!!! The Oil Rig worker saw it; the lady on the boat saw it; the procedure for fire on board includes turning off the busses to isolate any electrical fire. Wow - to disregard the fire on board scenario is a big fault in your presentation.
Wouldn't a fire onboard that catastrophic bring down the plane a lot sooner? Past cases of fire (e.g. Swissair 111) have resulted in planes not remaining airborne for long
A plane on fire doesn’t fly for 6 more hours after it started. That doesn’t hold water
Yes it does.
@@tombombadill22 no it does not.
Why wouldn't Zaharie Ahmad Shah have tried out isolating the left AC bus on a prior flight to see what faults and notification would occur? He might have even been able to conduct the procedure on the ground rather than in-flight. It shouldn't be assumed that he tried everything out on his desktop simulator. Might one simply search the checklists for the word "SATCOM" to find out what procedures would take the SATCOM off-line? You wouldn't need schematics in that case to determine which bus supplied power to SATCOM.
To be sure, all of what you suggest is possible. All I'm trying to establish is that this business of switching off large chunks of the electrical system is extremely unusual, dangerous, and difficulty-inducing -- but not impossible. To make an analogy, it's physically possible for me to walk to the corner store on my hands, but it would be so difficult and cumbersome for me (I'd need to learn how to do it for one thing) that I've never even contemplated it. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 It won't be particularly dangerous because of the inherent safety of the system architecture of the 777 fly-by-wire system. 777 is triple-redundant which means that losing a single power-bus shouldn't degrade safety.
Thanks for another great episode! I have a few questions and comments:
1. On the discussion re: what the pilot would get from disabling the left AC bus - isn’t it possible that he purposely did this so that after the fact (not in real time) it would be harder to tie the crash to him (e.g., to save his family the shame of this)? This seems aligned with the rest of his actions to hide what happened to the plane under the pilot suicide theory.
2. You made the interesting point that if the pilot’s goal was to commit suicide without having the investigation lead to him, it would have been better to go to the Mariana Trench. Can you explore this more and show why that would be better? I’m particularly curious re: how the air traffic control map & air traffic would differ if he did that - I.e. would it be equally possible to get to the Mariana Trench while traveling along the borders of air traffic control regions to avoid detection? Would there be more or less traffic on that alternative path? Are there fewer military bases in that direction? If you could really show that the Mariana Trench path (or some other path) would be easier for someone trying to avoid detection that’d be interesting.
3. Is there any scenario in which he turned the satcom back on because he got tired of manually flying the plane so once he knew he was out of military radar range, turning the electrical systems on allowed him to use the autopilot again?
Thank you! Some responses: 1. A lot of ideas have been floated about Zaharie's motivation -- that he wanted to pull off the perfect crime, save himself and his family from blame, but also to humiliate the Malaysian government, somehow. I don't think that any of these ideas really make sense... 2. .... for example if his goal was to escape suspicion, pulling a U-turn at IGARI and flying over Butterworth Air Force Base definitely undercuts that goal. I like your idea of our discussing the Marianas Trench option in a future episode. 3. One could imagine this, but I think that it presupposes he turned off the electrical system, which as we point out in this episode is pretty far-fetched. /JW
Episode 30 🎉 sorry to hear about your bicycle misdemeanor @Jeff 😮 But hey! Some people can’t walk up a flight of stairs without falling over multiple times 😂 great episode keep up the good work 😊
Thank you! Your kind words make up for the physical pain :) /JW
Please consider the following possibilities: (1) the transponders were disabled remotely eg by an EW device that looks innocent eg a laptop carried as a luggage. (2) has anyone with detailed knowledge of the 777 eg a Boeing engineer gone missing in the months or years before 2014.
I don't know of a way that the transponder could be disabled remotely... as for missing 777 engineer, I have't heard of any going missing but I imagine there are a lot of people around the world who have detailed knowledge of the plane since more than 1500 were built and they all require servicing. /JW
@@DeepDiveMH370 Jeff I’m just floating these two ideas but I think we need to consider new hypotheses. We aren’t moving closer to the truth since your article in NY mag. I also have a vague feeling Russia may be involved (I was living in Moscow at the time and know this and that about the regime) but how and why?
You did not ask the main question e.g. if there is a fire on board, do you turn off the 2 busses? Wasted interview.
We did actually address this. /JW
A couple of points:
1. How did Zahari overpower his first officer? That mystifies me. The F.O. was very much Zahari's junior. Perhaps he was intimidated, and reluctant to contradict his captain.
(Had Browne been the F.O. on that flight, the outcome would have been very different).
2. If Zahari wanted to commit suicide, why this incredibly convoluted way of going about it?
Every police detective knows that most of the time, the most obvious explanation is the right one. In the MH 370 incident, what was that "most obvious explanation?" Was it psychological, technical, or a terrorist act?
4. If indeed Zahari deliberately acted to commit air piracy and mass murder, a conclusion not yet proven, what else explains the bizarre series of circumstances in the aircraft's flight
path?
We will speculate endlessly, and probably never know.
A pity these presenters only allowed Browne a brief cameo appearance, and did not solicit
his opinions about the mystery of MH370. Who better qualified, than a man of Browne's experience and integrity? Browne, you may recall, had years of military flying experience,
before transitioning to commercial aviation.
I hope that you continue to watch the show, because I think you will find a lot of your questions answered. /JW
On point 1 - um.. Waited til he went to the bathroom? Asked him to get tea? Asked if he could go to wherever and get him an asprin? Asked him to look out at some sort of instrument or check on something. If your a FO your most likely going to do whatever your captain asks of you out of respect/seniority of its a reasonable request
Great episode - completely agree the restoration of power to the SDU is so crucial.
Mmmm. Do you think it was so that the world would - later of course, not during the flight itself - be left with this weird suggestion of potential location, pointing to the deepest, hardest to reach & search middle of nowhere on the planet?
So, here is what we know and my takeaway from this episode...IMHO...
1. The electrical / power and communication systems were shut down in one short swoop and at the right moment, that happened...
2. The plane continued to fly on whatever other power (RAT, etc, who knows...), that happened...
3. The electrical systems / power were turned back on when the PIC thought he was in the clear, that happened...
4. Were it not for the inmarsat info, we would all have no clue where that plane likely went to this day...that happened...
What this tells us is that the PIC knew something most people and pilots did not about that plane...he clearly knew this plane and its power & electricals more than just the flight simulator he had at home...and it surprises me that the commentators here refuse to give him that credit...he probably had the blue prints of that plane's electricals and studied them to a fault...remember also that he (presuming it was Capt. Zaharie) had a YT channel teaching things akin to fixing electrical systems and devices...
Jeff says it makes no sense what he did and that it was all for nothing...but the point is he did it and did it so well that it still baffles everyone to this day how he could have...duped radar, duped ATCs and most other detection systems in real-time, and only in hindsight can we decipher some of it...and here we are!
Furthermore, the fact that it happened seemingly as planned makes almost all other arguments moot at this point...the fact that it happened as it happened may be what was intended to happen...writing it off as mere coincidence and happenstance takes away from the known "facts" of the matter...
Increasingly, if the PIC was Capt. Zaharie, that guy was a diabolical genius (no offence intended to anyone), more than most people are willing to give him credit for...
And it is now extremely imperative that we find that plane and get some answers...
That’s a very, very good summary of how I feel about it. -Andy
DeeKay-yy7op
You say that Zaharie was most likely behind what happened. It's a guess among other guesses, but I think you missed that this episode had an expert & professional Boeing 777 pilot on (the mh370 plane model) who stressed stressed that 777 pilots do not know these kinds of things about the plane.
Basically pilots are taught kind of flowcharts of what to do at all particular times, and in certain, unusual eventualities and that is all they are told. The thinking is that if they're told any more then that, the great importance of sticking to the flowchart procedures may be lost, particularly in emergencies, and they may become confused. The pilot needs certainty, focus and confidence in himself or herself at all times and extraneous information may easily get in the way of that.
What this actually means is that it's in fact very hard for pilots to learn more about these planes than they're taught - and this usually include instructors, who mostly pass on the same info they once received to new trainees and junior pilots. Maybe instructors get a tiny bit of information more, but not any more.
I'm not a pilot but I once went through learning to fly, or rather trying to learn to fly (because I'm too frightened by a cockpit at the end of the day to fly myself) and my instructor told me this.
You actually have to ask how could Zaharie figure out these things. There are so few people who know such things - airplane systems designers and some airplane construction workers (and not many in construction because it's quite compartmentalised and some workers know some things only while others know other things) and some very senior maintenance workers who know more or less less a total overview of the plane model.
That's in the construction and maintenence industries. In the airlines world, from what I learned, generally a whole large airline may have one or two people who know these things about a plane or, honestly, it may have none. Maintenence and checking is usually outsourced beyond the airline.
It is possible that the pilot of mh370 who took off from Kuala Lumpur could have found out more information, but most pilots don't really even have the ability or the sources themselves.
Apart from construction and maintenance industry people, I know for a solid fact that the other category of people who know everything about how each model of airplane used in each country works is intelligence agency staff of numerous countries. That definitely includes the USA and Russia. The stories of dedicated laptop computer like devices which can be plugged into the Electronics bay and then control the airplane, are all perfectly true. This was indeed true decades ago, very old news, because today's concern is unknown parties doing this to a plane remotely, exploiting a vulnerability, without having to go anywhere near the plane themselves.
However that also means that ex-spies keep in-depth knowledge of how the old planes they learned about work. It is fathomably possible that retired spies from one country or another could sell their information - and indeed hands-on expertise - to some kind of rogue outfit.
Thanks
Thank you so much!! /JW
Thank you!! -Andy
I’ve been watching Juan for years. That was an awful interview…of course a pilot who wants to fly the plane is going to follow procedures and not “go freelancing.” But if your goal is to crash the plane and cause a mystery and go down in history that way, then you learn how to do the necessary things. Juan often learns and explains very technical systems that he learned in order to share that to his viewers. It’s not something that he uses in practice. For example, I seriously doubt he understood how a Max door was put together until that incident, which he instantly learned and shared, and he’s done that with many more technical videos. But as an intelligent man, he could certainly learn how to do what he wanted. As Zahari probably did.
Also, I saw a time recreation and it was entirely possible for Zahari to go down to turn off the system in time if he wanted to.
Sorry, this isn’t meant to be mean, but Jeff sounds like a 4th grader to me. He imagines people can’t learn without “god level knowledge?” Dude is lost in the weeds.
Why is he assuming Zahari was an ordinary pilot? He keeps insisting on that, which is not even on topic. A smart human can learn anything. Why can’t Zahari have wanted to commit a crime, a mystery, and commit suicide without knowing the exact outcome? The odds were good by turning off what he did and slipping past radar that he had gotten away with it. He may not have needed certainly. Why are you assuming he wanted it to be easy? His motivation may have been not to be easy but to try to cause a mystery. Of course, he wouldn’t know the outcome but he was capable of trying. Because you can’t imagine it doesn’t mean nobody can. You probably can’t imagine serial killers either.
I had thought it was likely Zahari long before I saw Petter’s and Emmet’s videos, because of Occam’s razor, and the wreckage which has been found which has been proven to come from MH300. Their videos make a lot more sense than that disjointed Netflix doc and bizarre theories about Diego Garcia or whatever.
I don’t know what happened but I think the many videos that point to Zahari are likely on the mark. I hope they continue the search and the plane is found and there is enough evidence left that it clears things up. You guys too have made a lot of assumptions that I’m not convinced you even know you are making, like it’s impossible to learn electronics systems in planes when that is patently untrue.
Hopefully we’ll one day find out.
You wrote, "But if your goal is to crash the plane and cause a mystery and go down in history that way, then you learn how to do the necessary things." What are the necessary things? /JW
So Mentour got everything else right except Zahari only turning off the left bus. Zahari had 18635 hours. He was certainly capable of finding out how to best do this. So saying Mentour got it wrong is splitting hairs. Zahari was probably capable of pulling off the total shut down as well so Mentours theory is the best one out there. Mentour said we will not be certain until Ithe boxes are found. Mentour produced the best theory. The Netflix documentary was way far fetched and sensational sounded like hogwash to me.
Well, no, I wouldn't say that Mentour got everything else right; there are other major aspects of his theory that I think also look quite different on closer examination. As far as the total shut down, the two things to understand is that a) it is absolutely anathema to 777 pilots b) it serves no useful function. But more importantly, I think what you're missing is that my goal is not to have a showdown between different theories, to find the one that is most convincing to people with a surface-level analysis. My goal is to provide a deep level understanding of the mystery, and only then try to sort out what kind of scenario makes sense. /JW
Tom from Germany writing. Sorry to say, it started out as a neutral podcast that I really enjoyed, but ever since focusing almost entirely on the barnacles you guys have completely LOST it.
OMG, where do I even start:
1. It seems you invite people on the podcast until someone finally confirms what you want to hear. Example: Ken, the british IT expert, after him you mentioned talking to another guy who basically confirmed Ken's opinion. But that's not enough which is why you eventually find a guy that goes along with your theory. Yes Jeff and Andy, so much for blaming the Aussies and other experts for only accepting what they want to hear - you guys are not an inch better. Or why did you Jeff need that third IT opinion if not for confirmation, please explain to us all?
2. Comparing barnacle growth to tree rings. How ridiculous is that please. Like Jeff I am a scuba diver nearing 1000 dives. I have seen one and the same turtle eating barnacles from a wooden log in the Andaman Sea for dive after dive on the same day. It seemed not to leave that log until it finished its meal. But I am not even claiming a turtle or any animal might have eaten the flaperon's barnacles. What I want to say is: it's a wild stormy Ocean, not a peaceful forest. The "growth reliability" of barnacles and trees is nowhere comparable, that is downright stupid. Anything could have happen to barnacles on a long journey like that and yet, that is what mostly you are basing you theory on?
3. If the 777 cannot be flown/steered from the electronic bay, as I understood it, what do you assume happened? Guess at some point someone must have gotten access to the cockpit then. But then why no Mayday or distress message to air control? Oh, you think one Russian guy was down in the bay to first turn off communications while another guy then somehow opened the cockpit to point the gun and force the captain to do that manual maneuver at IGARI that indeed only he could have done? Come on, you are now in a deep rabbit hole yourselves guys.
But most important and obvious of all:
You just cannot on one side lift the Russian governent upon the throne of human super intelligence to gather all insider knowledge, go through all the extremely meticulous preparation and carrying out of mid-air hacking including even anticipating a later never-done-before BFO search to start thinking "hmm, we better spoof that"...
While on the other side declare them (Russians) absolute idiots, because idiotic, dangerous and completely senseless is what hijacking MH370 would be for Russia. The Russians would NEVER NEVER intentionally steal or shoot down a plane with mostly chinese people on it. Or how many Chinese people again did the shot down MH17 include? Oops none, now why do you think that is?
They are smart and their launching unit waited all day for a flight with a fitting passenger list - that easy.
If we can agree to the fact that they are smart enough to have known the MH370 passenger list beforehand, guys, you can simply put your theory to waste, it's that simple.
Just forget it. Cause if you don't I must suspect that you're in this just for other reasons like selling books and gaining sponsors.
Deeply disappointed where this series has gone,
Tom from Germany
I'm a journalist and author. There's no way anybody could expect to get rich (or even survive) off doing this. They do it because they care.
@adscooter
It's quite funny reading your comment because you're claiming Deep Dive Mh370 is guilty of being stuck in confirmation bias - yet your own criticism of their theories itself appears to be unable to go anywhere meaningful because it's too fixated in trying to confirm its own original biases.
I can confirm that we’re not doing it to get rich or to quit our full-time jobs. -Andy
Raising some interesting questions.... would have been better with a little less repetition in your remarks (we got it, we got it, really we got it) and emphasis on others' possibly faulty conclusions... you come off sounding a little envious of Mentour and Green Dot's popularity.
Appreciate the feedback. Trying to get better at podcasting as we go... /JW
You guys are actually speaking against yourselves assuming that shat the pilot did was supposed to be reasonable? Exactly as unreasonable as you assume the theories to the assumption that the pilot controlling the flight till the end would actually doing anything reasonable or would not be able to get the information on the systems of the aircraft to do exactly what is suggested. Why the resistance to explore the theory in search?
Well, the idea I was trying to get across is that even if someone's goals seem irrational to you (e.g. like killing yourself) there are things that they can do to further those goals that make sense, or not. And nothing about rebooting the SDU would seem to further that goal. For what it's worth, I'm not resistant to exploring the pilot-suicide theory; on the contrary, I think I've studied it quite hard, because I want to know its strengths and weaknesses. /JW
He almost said American Airlines, whoops
I'm shocked by alot of influential people related to Mh370 that are in these cult like groups calling people like Jeff and I delusional because we have different views.
@matthewbetts4756
You're spot on about the cult-like nature of these people who want everyone to think the one, same thing. (And a one, same thing, all the more strangely, which has no decent evidence support it. Out on a limb, quite unreasonable and very, very determined, so it's exactly like how many cults work.)
@lecochonbleu trouble is they have invested so much time and money, they refuse to believe that they may have been dumped by a former PM who is now in prison and showed he couldn't be trusted. It was very easy for him to make a problem that was taking up so much of his time go away.
You guys seem to be simply willful conspiracy theorists.
"don't know what would happen if you cut AC bus" --well, you could determine what might happen with experience and curiosity.
"path looks like autopilot" --what path?! There's only the arcs. There's absolutely no way to determine what the flight path truly looked like and it's totally plausible to fly an airliner without autopilot (which...hasn't always existed...fucking obviously)
"pilot suicide doesn't make sense/no motive" -- that's true. It's incredibly bizarre and seems totally confusing. Why might Captain Zaharie kill his passengers and copilot? It's very tough to say, pure speculation, and largely unconvincing.
All that said, the Greendot thesis (which is explicitly explained to be heavy in conjecture for narrative, to be clear. Low conspiritard blow tbh) is the most compelling and best supported by existing evidence. It really is not nearly as unbelievable or implausible to pull off if so desirable.
I find it quite telling how you asked the 777 pilot about the electronics but never interrogated whether he would have been able to pull off something like the generally accepted narrative if he was inclined to do so. My prediction is that he'd say that, in Zaharie Ahmed Shah's position, it would absolutely be plausible to do.
Just like Killdozer, 9/11, or the moon landing. It's absolutely wild, but it's just not supernatural nor a conspiracy, and people with a high degree of skill and no inhibitions can achieve wild ends with pretty extreme reliable success.
If you don't like the accepted narrative, it's just a complaint, not science. You don't have a counternarrative to explain the evidence, just nitpicks and whines about minute details of what is best known and understood.
It sure is weird how Building 7 collapsed...but fire is still the best explanation and controlled demolition conspiracy is retarded and flawed by an order of magnitude of orders of magnitude than the official story.
Greendot and Mentour Pilot told a story that is probably just largely true.
This is really interesting. It's very refreshing for someone - anyone - actually to dive into the hypothesis of the pilot suicide theory and the kind of state of mind which would be required, because those who favour the pilot suicide narrative nearly always simply, quickly gloss over all of the serious inconsistencies with that idea. You are actually bothering to delve into the hypothesis logically, with appropriate, keen thinking. Usually we don't get any thinking at all on this narrative beyond what seems like the underlying impetus, "I say it, just accept it and we'll all say it's true - then this whole troubling affair we can all shelve away together, forever, and it cannot traumatise anyone anymore."
On one level, I understand this approach. Hear no evil, see no evil, live to smile and be productive another day. On another level, genuinely of course it ties up nothing and in the longer run might only make things worse in terms of the effect of the mh370 situation on peoples' states of mind.
I found it quite troubling for quite a long time that the people backing this pilot suicide theory tend to be so wrapped up in little other than confirmation bias (that's at the best of times, because often they're not willing to deliberate at all) that it seems, they are not aware this is what they are doing, not aware they've dropped balance in their thoughts, have dropped the normal checks in what they're saying.
I understand that it helps people a great deal to explain away the missing plane. I understand that other scenarios can seem too hard to rest upon and so they must be dismissed, but it's also true that people can come back with a more open mind at a time in the future when they may be more ready.
As the kind of mental positions which need the easy, calming explanation of pilot murder - suicide can even appear to be viral, easily contagious, I'm saying good luck with all the replies to this video!! 😊
I know that, more than what you establish well in the video that so many people just believe what they see and hear without questioning it, this whole mh370 situation is further immensely troubling emotionally to most people and so many probably require some kind of an easy explanation in a near pathological way. It may be close to a medical, psychological requirement, to quell their nervous systems, without them realising this is going on inside them. I also think that pilots can actually be more affected this way because the mh370 fear can get beneath the skin if they don't pigeonhole it away to themselves in a non-threatening overall model - the very, very rare, nearly unheard of situation of a pilot just losing his marbles and killing everyone. Professional pilots particularly are a breed apart from normal humans, requiring a really calm, controlled, steady disposition, which itself often kind of basically forms how they live, decisions they make, family time and so on. (I've always thought of pilots as kind of superhuman and it's only to be expected that they have special requirements for state of mind which are ongoing, to enable them to do their very demanding, extremely responsible job safely. However, Zaharie Ahmad-Shah was also someone who took on and carried out this great responsibility for large numbers of people close to every week of decades of his life and, apart from that there's no evidence that he would ever take anyone's lifestyle away from them, I feel sure he would be unable actually to make such an act.)
I have to say what you're tackling is very difficult and deserves a lot of respect, avoiding the easy answers which at the end of the day don't actually add up. Thank you again, both of you.
Thank you so much for this. You really encapsulate my thoughts and feelings on the case exactly. In particular, I think you put your finger quite accurately on the psychology of many pilots when it comes to dealing with the mystery of MH370--in my efforts to find a 777 pilot to come on the show I found myself on the line with a very experienced captain who was quite angry that I would even want to delve into the matter, he felt it was irresponsible to speculate on what might have happened! Les Abend even wrote a column in Flying magazine in this vein after I asked him about it. He didn't have a theory about what happened to the plane, he just felt it was wrong to speculate. Which of course I find perplexing; how can you solve a mystery if you don't imagine and test scenarios? /JW
I think you guys are great.. but find it can be long winded.. on how Jeff explains.. facts
Thanks for the first part... sorry for the second part... /JW
Look at Ashton Forbes.
Do you think his claims are credible? /JW
I had previously watched both of the referenced videos by GreenDot & Mentour. As a person who grew up in a weird bubble of Christian fundamentalism, it struck me throughout both of those how both creators were selling an entire narrative that was based on a whole lot of certainty & faith in presumptions - yet they were presenting it as fact. And they may have their small disclaimers sprinkled throughout their sophisticated CG dramatizations & reenactments…but the whole premise felt off kilter to me from the start. And they’re playing highly on the notion of it ‘feeling’ and looking true. I suppose it speaks to the power of visual media, but it’s just wild to me how quickly people accept it as the only interpretation & take to defending it without a single pause to reflect. 🫣😮💨 When one considers the possible notion that this was a hijacking & covert accomplishment, this truly illustrates the effectiveness at someone’s attempts to deceive. 😬
thanks for the important conversations & efforts you guys are making though. it’s hitting a chord in so many, because we all know that this cannot just be so simply explained without actual evidence to confirm.
Excellent observations, and thank you for your kind words. /JW