Very interesting Elin.. Many thanks for bringing my database up to speed. Rick Patton is an ingenious man to have worked out that conversion system using the original carbs as throttle bodies .
Did you hear your avid audience shouting 'airlock' at their devices when you were measuring the thermal image?! More excellent work Elin, thanks for your continued inspiration.
Fascinating video, Elin! I have wondered about converting our old TRs to TBI... although in my case it would be a Weber DCOE conversion. You did great job explaining what's involved with the Patton/Zenith Stromberg conversiin. I assume that the Weber TBI conversion is similar.
Yup, it is hard to explain the AIC...the way that I look at it it is like the choke on a carbureted car, when you apply the choke, as the injection system does at lower temperatures by increasing the fuel flow, the choke mechanism increases the throttle to create a higher amount of air to burn the richer mixture. The injection system can not open the throttle so it supplements the air flow by opening the AIC. Love your work and look forward to all of your videos..
Hi Elin, Many thanks for the great content you produce. I am just watching your latest re the Throttle Body efi. I suspect that the fuel pressure regulator "drain pipe" is actually meant to be connected to manifold vacuum. My own 2.5 litre efi Spitfire has its FPR unit connected to manifold vacuum. I'm off to watch the rest of your video. David Nelson
@@RustyBeauties Hi again Elin. I am forgetting that this set up has the injectors before the throttle flaps. My installation has the injectors after the throttle body. I managed to alter the heater plumbing and put the temp sensor in the port below the thermostat (where your heater pipe exits the housing). Looking forward to the next instalment. David J Nelson
Hi I do not know the software ,but you have set the correct baurd rate, have you set the correct com port, you need to go into windows device manager and see what com port is set when you plug in the usb cable, then put that com port numbers in to the car software, Good luck Dave
Not only do you have to diagnose a TBI fuel system you have diagnose a windows computer system, talk about challenges, That's why I have a 1980's MGB, so I never have to get the Laptop out, except to order parts. Nice job diagnosing and navigating both systems. Thanks for posting.
The video section dealing with Elin buying cables as a workarond is something unrelated to tbe TBI install. He made a valiant effort but that cable was not suitable and I agree that showing the internet searching and clicking around would scare anyone away including me! Watch Elin in the next video when he uses the cable supplied with my kit. I have suggested that he edit that out as it is not applicable to installing my kits and misleading.
Hi Elin My 2500S has the same (or appears to be the same) inlet manifold with HS6 SU's.The "balance tube" between the carbies is BLOCKED with an Aluminium plug so that there is no connection between the carbies on the vacuum side. all the booster vacuum comes from 4,5 and 6. The Plug/connection at the front goes to 1,2,and 3 and was used for an EGR connection for emissions control. If you connect the MAP sensor to the inlet manifold on the back inlet, as you have done you are not measuring correct MAP and the computer will sense what is happening to 4,5 and 6. Maybe this is the problem. Cheers from Australia
My suspicions on the temperature sender problem would be that it’s one, both, or a combination of brass being a good heat conductor and acting a bit like a tiny radiator, and the IR camera not being able to read reflective surfaces as well as it can non reflective ones.
I've had hours of fun putting a Microsquirt system on a TR6 (with a crank sensor, multipoint EFI and EDIS wasted spark). You're working blind without the software (tuner studio in my case), but the results should be worth it. The IAC valve was an infuriating piece of kit to set up and you sometimes wonder if you would be better of without it.
@@RustyBeauties Obviously on newer cars the temp sensor is tapped directly into the inlet manifold water jacket... like you did for the vacuum fitting. Not sure if you can manage that.... ideally the supplier would offer modufied exchange manifolds with these mods already done !
Hi Elin, enjoy your videos, but for this one regarding the temp. sensor install into the tee fitting. Why not switch around the flow of the tee, instead of the coolant running straight through past the temp. sender, put the flow thru' the leg of the tee and the temp. sensor in the main flow at the end. This ensures the temp. sensor is completely wetted all the time in the main coolant flow. This would be an easy switch and there would be nothing to lose to try before suspecting the temp. sensor itself.
I think I will remove the fitting all together and mount the sensor to the thermostat housing. Rick Patton now offers a thermostat rising block with two ports so I am getting that.
@@RustyBeauties Yes that sounds like a good idea. Maybe the old brass fitting is too big and losing a lot of heat compared to the amount of heat it is getting from the water flow.
I saw an YT video on this a couple of years ago, I questioned it at the time, seems like it is still a problem looking for a solution. I asked why and what was the advantage, the answer was basically because it can be done. Hopefully you can at least make it run reasonably well that the owner will be somewhat happy with the conversion.
@@robertharrison9248 There are many advantages. Reduced emissions to begin with, increased performance (by a lot) and MPG. I’ve driven dozens of TR6 and this one is way more responsive and accelerates faster than any of the ones I’ve driven even in this unfinished state. I am sure that once it is set properly it will be a lot of fun to drive. Disadvantage is that it requires additional knowledge and if something goes wrong you can’t just fix it on the side of the road. But I am sure it will not be an unreliable system.
Disconnect the temperature sensor. This should default the reading to 'high'. I had to do this once when a temp sensor went bad that controlled the fan. Once the sensor was replaced everything was back to normal and ended up putting the sensor on a switch do could could force the fan to come on. Just an idea🤔
The IAC doesn’t make the mixture richer. It adds air, which makes the mixture leaner. By adding air, the idle speed goes up. Presumably, the computer adjusts the mixture to match by adding fuel based on the reading at the O2 sensor.
@@T3glider yes, the IAC does not make the mixture rich, it tricks the ECU to make the mixture rich based on vacuum readings from the MAP. Added air reduces the vacuum, which the ECU considers as added load so it adds fuel.
I kind of feel like if you need to add the complications of a fuel injection system to a USA version of a Triumph TR6, maybe you should get a different car. One of the best feature of a TR6 is it is simple, uncomplicated and very capable of operating using the factory carbs.
That is the effect you have on a carbureted engine. Here it has the opposite effect. The ECU controls the mixture by adjusting the amount of fuel injected, based on readings from the MAP sensor (vacuum). The ECU's logic is "the lower the vacuum the higher the load so more fuel needed". So by bleeding air into the manifold the IAC reduces the vacuum and tricks the ECU into injecting more fuel.
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That was fascinating. Thanks for making such a complicated system much more interesting and simple to understand.
Very interesting Elin.. Many thanks for bringing my database up to speed. Rick Patton is an ingenious man to have worked out that conversion system using the original carbs as throttle bodies .
These are my favorite videos - solving issues that are complex.
Very interesting Elin. Thanks for your patience explaining this system.
Zoom zoom 😊
You have amazing patience and skill for details.
Great work.
Did you hear your avid audience shouting 'airlock' at their devices when you were measuring the thermal image?!
More excellent work Elin, thanks for your continued inspiration.
Very interesting stuff ! Great explanation.
Fascinating video, Elin!
I have wondered about converting our old TRs to TBI... although in my case it would be a Weber DCOE conversion. You did great job explaining what's involved with the Patton/Zenith Stromberg conversiin. I assume that the Weber TBI conversion is similar.
Excellent Video.
Yup, it is hard to explain the AIC...the way that I look at it it is like the choke on a carbureted car, when you apply the choke, as the injection system does at lower temperatures by increasing the fuel flow, the choke mechanism increases the throttle to create a higher amount of air to burn the richer mixture. The injection system can not open the throttle so it supplements the air flow by opening the AIC. Love your work and look forward to all of your videos..
Hi Elin,
Many thanks for the great content you produce. I am just watching your latest re the Throttle Body efi. I suspect that the fuel pressure regulator "drain pipe" is actually meant to be connected to manifold vacuum. My own 2.5 litre efi Spitfire has its FPR unit connected to manifold vacuum.
I'm off to watch the rest of your video.
David Nelson
Maybe your regulator is designed to adjust the pressure depending on load. This one doesn't have a vacuum port.
@@RustyBeauties Hi again Elin. I am forgetting that this set up has the injectors before the throttle flaps. My installation has the injectors after the throttle body.
I managed to alter the heater plumbing and put the temp sensor in the port below the thermostat (where your heater pipe exits the housing).
Looking forward to the next instalment.
David J Nelson
Hi I do not know the software ,but you have set the correct baurd rate, have you set the correct com port, you need to go into windows device manager and see what com port is set when you plug in the usb cable, then put that com port numbers in to the car software,
Good luck
Dave
Not only do you have to diagnose a TBI fuel system you have diagnose a windows computer system, talk about challenges, That's why I have a 1980's MGB, so I never have to get the Laptop out, except to order parts. Nice job diagnosing and navigating both systems. Thanks for posting.
The video section dealing with Elin buying cables as a workarond is something unrelated to tbe TBI install. He made a valiant effort but that cable was not suitable and I agree that showing the internet searching and clicking around would scare anyone away including me! Watch Elin in the next video when he uses the cable supplied with my kit. I have suggested that he edit that out as it is not applicable to installing my kits and misleading.
Hi Elin My 2500S has the same (or appears to be the same) inlet manifold with HS6 SU's.The "balance tube" between the carbies is BLOCKED with an Aluminium plug so that there is no connection between the carbies on the vacuum side.
all the booster vacuum comes from 4,5 and 6. The Plug/connection at the front goes to 1,2,and 3 and was used for an EGR connection for emissions control. If you connect the MAP sensor to the inlet manifold on the back inlet, as you have done you are not measuring correct MAP and the computer will sense what is happening to 4,5 and 6. Maybe this is the problem.
Cheers from Australia
My suspicions on the temperature sender problem would be that it’s one, both, or a combination of brass being a good heat conductor and acting a bit like a tiny radiator, and the IR camera not being able to read reflective surfaces as well as it can non reflective ones.
I've had hours of fun putting a Microsquirt system on a TR6 (with a crank sensor, multipoint EFI and EDIS wasted spark). You're working blind without the software (tuner studio in my case), but the results should be worth it. The IAC valve was an infuriating piece of kit to set up and you sometimes wonder if you would be better of without it.
Gday Paul do you have a blog or vlog of what you've done I would be very interested to see your solutions to the problems cheers from Australia
Why not move the sensor to the thermostat housing
@@mikejackman4416 yeah, working on that
@@RustyBeauties Obviously on newer cars the temp sensor is tapped directly into the inlet manifold water jacket... like you did for the vacuum fitting. Not sure if you can manage that.... ideally the supplier would offer modufied exchange manifolds with these mods already done !
I use an unlit (obviously) propane cylinder to check for vacuum leaks.
Hi Elin, enjoy your videos, but for this one regarding the temp. sensor install into the tee fitting. Why not switch around the flow of the tee, instead of the coolant running straight through past the temp. sender, put the flow thru' the leg of the tee and the temp. sensor in the main flow at the end. This ensures the temp. sensor is completely wetted all the time in the main coolant flow. This would be an easy switch and there would be nothing to lose to try before suspecting the temp. sensor itself.
I think I will remove the fitting all together and mount the sensor to the thermostat housing. Rick Patton now offers a thermostat rising block with two ports so I am getting that.
@@RustyBeauties Yes that sounds like a good idea. Maybe the old brass fitting is too big and losing a lot of heat compared to the amount of heat it is getting from the water flow.
I saw an YT video on this a couple of years ago, I questioned it at the time, seems like it is still a problem looking for a solution. I asked why and what was the advantage, the answer was basically because it can be done. Hopefully you can at least make it run reasonably well that the owner will be somewhat happy with the conversion.
@@robertharrison9248 There are many advantages. Reduced emissions to begin with, increased performance (by a lot) and MPG. I’ve driven dozens of TR6 and this one is way more responsive and accelerates faster than any of the ones I’ve driven even in this unfinished state. I am sure that once it is set properly it will be a lot of fun to drive. Disadvantage is that it requires additional knowledge and if something goes wrong you can’t just fix it on the side of the road. But I am sure it will not be an unreliable system.
Surely the IAC should richen the mixture when cold..
Disconnect the temperature sensor. This should default the reading to 'high'.
I had to do this once when a temp sensor went bad that controlled the fan. Once the sensor was replaced everything was back to normal and ended up putting the sensor on a switch do could could force the fan to come on.
Just an idea🤔
The IAC doesn’t make the mixture richer. It adds air, which makes the mixture leaner. By adding air, the idle speed goes up. Presumably, the computer adjusts the mixture to match by adding fuel based on the reading at the O2 sensor.
@@T3glider yes, the IAC does not make the mixture rich, it tricks the ECU to make the mixture rich based on vacuum readings from the MAP. Added air reduces the vacuum, which the ECU considers as added load so it adds fuel.
I kind of feel like if you need to add the complications of a fuel injection system to a USA version of a Triumph TR6, maybe you should get a different car. One of the best feature of a TR6 is it is simple, uncomplicated and very capable of operating using the factory carbs.
Not so much if the carbs are strombergs.
??? If extra air is let into the manifold the mixture will be leaner, not richer. 😮
That is the effect you have on a carbureted engine. Here it has the opposite effect. The ECU controls the mixture by adjusting the amount of fuel injected, based on readings from the MAP sensor (vacuum). The ECU's logic is "the lower the vacuum the higher the load so more fuel needed". So by bleeding air into the manifold the IAC reduces the vacuum and tricks the ECU into injecting more fuel.