The Dark Side of Payday 2 Modding
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2022
- This is a topic that most of us are familiar with, but there's not a whole lot of dialogue going on around it. I see blanket arguments coming from both sides of the fence so I'm wading in by sitting on that fence... Let's talk cheat mods.
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Referenced Mods-
Almir Listo Character Pack: modworkshop.net/mod/38174
Keepers: pd2mods.z77.fr/keepers.html
Predator Pack: modworkshop.net/mod/36402
Berserker Perk Deck: modworkshop.net/mod/27910
Hitman Perk Deck Mod (Carrot Rebalance): modworkshop.net/mod/38293
GenSec H.I.V.E Heist: modworkshop.net/mod/36368
Shrek Bodypillow Lootbag: modworkshop.net/mod/35487
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This video was brought to you thanks to the generous support from the guys over at Patreon: / kknowley
Socials -
Twitch: / kknowley
Twitter: / thekknowley
Discord: / discord
(Some mods featured in today's video do stretch the definition of what's fair to play with online. As such, those will not be linked here. In most cases, this is not a slight towards the creators. I simply don't want to propagate the use of these more problematic mods in an inappropriate setting within Payday 2. Thank you for your understanding)
#Payday2 #Kknowley 
Игры
As a former kid, Skyrim mods taught me a good lesson on cheating. If you cheat to get everything at the beginning, it’s fun for a bit but gets boring quickly. Actually getting that far is the fun.
@@Scaramouche122 lol
sometimes i only use "unlock everything" cheat only for fashion in game like fallout and skyrim.
In Skyrim you don't even need mods to cheat, you can just use console commands.
@@gabrielcoracao3698 I was on console for Skyrim.
Skyrim already has extreme balance issues like power-levelling exploits lol
Now that's a spicy thumbnail, great video as well!
Edit: I found a guy online who branded his entire mod list as a Sydney NSFW enthusiast, turns out they're there solely to see how people react to him having like 12 Sydney related mods at once when they did pretty well nothing to change the game. I hope he's out there somewhere, he was a blast to play with.
They are probably enjoying it
The one guy that made a naked joy charm version of the naked joy mod at least has (unintentional) humor when it comes to their work but unless they add a mirror to the safehouse idk why you'd use it
Damn what a guy, must be hard playing payday with 1 hand. I pray for him 🙏
@@Monarch_E. yeah, it must be really "hard"
I think a lot of the stigma around mods, at least for me, comes from games like GTA since the only times you tend to notice them are when they're actively being used to detriment your experience. But when the only people affected are yourself and those consenting, what's the harm?
I might look into some Payday mods after this, seeing as I only play solo anyway. I've used cosmetic mods for a bunch of other games over the years, and gameplay mods on several single player ones, but haven't ever thought to look into what Payday's community has to offer. So thanks for shining a spotlight on it! Great video as always.
It mainly comes from misuse of the term modder to refer to any cheater there.
And it is very bad as many kids playing GTA Online think modding means cheating and have no udea about actual modding scene, and it does lead to very negative and hostile attitudes towards modding by proxy, as they dont understand how great and amazing modding can be for games, allowing for infinite amounts of new content, fixes or entire new experiences based on the game's engine that can be made for a game.
Which is how modding always was and used to be viewed as, but now it's changing due to stupid misuse of the word by people on PS3 and X360 GTA Online that carried over to PC and is used till this day in that community, and since GTA is as as succesful as it is it does have negative impact like this. Only game that is as popular with kids and allows for any kind of modability is Minecraft, but its hardly enough to undo the damage.
Tho i hope that once they grow up they will see what mods truly are i other games especially a Bethesda's community with total convertion mods and other games where modding scene is so strong like Valve's games.
@@Kacpa2 Wtf is this stupid 'kids think modding is cheating' mentality hanging around here. Alot of people in alot of games use mods to secretly cheat, or straight up fuck with the game that ruins it for everyone else.
Just because you can have some fun solo does not make the argument that mods are frequently used to cheat and ruin peoples multiplayer experience irrelevant
Some of the rebalance mods are actually fairly highly rated. You just have to resist the urge to use the minor differences in a 'cheaty' way. It's one way I agree with Kknowley, here.
@@famulanrevengeance3044 You just proved their point lmao
As if self harm didn't exist.
Anyway I can definitely see the gta ps2 generation being responsible for the huge amount of mods that basically make you invincible, except in gta those were usually fun or visually creative
I really like the Blackjack mod. It's basically Silent Assassin but you have to hit the guard in the back of the head with a blunt melee weapon and you can't pick up the body. It adds some skill since you can't just mow down the guards and some strategy since you have to decide if you'd rather have a roaming guard or a body you can't move.
Sort of like shooting a camera. We pretty much lost the camera shooting mechanic after titan cams were introduced and most maps having a security room which made shooting cameras pointless. It's like 2013 payday 2, playing framing frame day 3, methodically taking out cameras and guards and being rewarded with a clear map.
no harm done if playing solo or with people who dont mind
ok thanks man, gonna try it out
i don't know if i sound stupid or not but blackjack seems to be bugged, even when i clearly hit the head of a guard(using motion dot to aim at the head) and i'm standing behind them undetected, the pager still goes off
@@Est.-. you need to use a blunt melee weapon
So you incapacitate somebody but you can’t pick them up? Where’s the logic in that, that sounds stupid.
I like how you feel about modding community in Payday. Other communities have some extreme misinformation and vilifies modding like in GTA because of everything Take 2 is doing and because of insulting carryover from PS3/X360 days of GTA 5 to branding cheaters as modders and it remaining so to this day. This worries me as entire new generation or kids playing GTA Online develop hostile and wrong attitude to modding. Which is also why i like devs to respect and allow modding like Overkill and Bethesda(and Valve in the past). Modding has a very important place in every community's space and should not be vilified cuz of cheats and abuse.
In the case of GTA Online modding, most people I've run into with mod menus just shut off my internet for a few months, and it is annoying asf. The game is unplayable to me unless I force a solo public lobby. I think modding is important, but there's a bad bunch that will get ahold of them and act out on other people.
Ah true, Valve and mods... I played CSGO first, and started using a skinchanger out of disappointment looking at the prices. Then got the Valve Pack on summer sale, and tried CS Source. And found out, that I can download custom models, sounds, animations, etc and play like that. Felt amazing.
But other than obvious money making decisions, they also made the Steam Workshop, so.. Idk.
Valve owes their success to mods 90%∆ of their games are mods they expanded into fully blown polished games.
TFC/TF2 was mod for quake, Counter Strike for their Half life, Left 4 Dead was a simple mod of cs source, Dota a hero arena map made with Warcraft 3 map editor that spawned a whole genre. Portal started out as a mod too
Valve in the past? Only for CSGO (and maybe DOTA2? I don't play that game) do they not like modding, and even then it's not impossible to mod CSGO, there's many mods like the Rebalance mod or Zool's entire library of mods, and even recently people have been modding Half-Life Alyx, plus they still keep the Steam Workshop for basically any game to use as a library of mods, it'd be dumb to go against mods when Valve is built from modding as it's foundation.
@@M0D776 Sure, you can use those to mod the game, and use OTC or sth to bypass sv_pure and go online with them, but yeah.. They want you to pay for skins xd.
Pregnant Sydney is not in this list. I am disappointed kknowley you can do better.
I knew I missed a scorcher...
@@TheKknowley Career over. why kknowley, why?
And you AREN'T sending a link? Screw you.
I never saw the pregnant Sydney, however I have I seen the barefoot Sydney and Joy.
@@CavinLee now I'm really curious
Don't really see the point in trying to argue against people using mods during offline play. They're not hurting anyone. You could argue that they're hurting their own experience, but if they're going into modding they probably have a reason, and they probably know what they're about to do and what'll change.
Telling people that Silent Assassin is easier and less rewarding isn't gonna change anything. People play because they want to have fun, and if vanilla stealth isn't fun to them then they're not gonna go out of their way to get that 'legit' completion before they move onto SA.
I only play offline cause I find it more fun. I was playing the Stackhouse Auction on stealth for a few runs until the one run I thought I was succeeding, I got caught at the very last moment. After 41 minutes of avoiding the last two roaming guards upstairs cause I was out of pagers and painfully moving one artifact at a time, I got caught by a 180 and the whole mission failed. Safe to say I went straight to installing Silent Assassin and went out of my way to kill every single guard the next time I played out of spite lol. I never felt like my time was ever wasted that hard when I failed that mission. I’m taking back my 41 minutes.
@@mav1783 I understand the feeling which is why I also have the same mod
I really don’t like standard stealth, feels too tedious and not fun to me, so I use SA. I basically never play publicly, either by myself or with friends.
the problem is they're not doing offline only. it's dishonest to even imply that.
@@ghostface5559 People using mods during online play can be problematic.
However, this is not what I am arguing about.
I am arguing against Kknowley's opinions on mods in _offline play,_ which is why I made sure to specifically mention _'offline play'_ in the first sentence of my comment.
Personally, I was never a fan of having a very strict amount of pagers in a heist. Adaptive AI and guards who actually interact with eachother would have done wonders, but the limited amount of pagers always kept me from stealthing. I personally would have preferred having either a larger amount of pagers (6-7?) but lowering the time you have to respond. You have more opportunities to kill a guard but you have to do it fast, as taking too long due to anything will get you caught feels like a better balancing then a rather restrictive stealthing system that feels more tedious to go against then anything else, and I hope in Payday 3 the system is better
Well the main idea of a lot of stealth heists is to sneak past the guards, not kill them, and to use your few pagers wisely.
@@thegoldenhotdog345 and that's not the kind of stealth I like. It limits your playability on each heist by forcing you to have limited movement and freedom. I understand there has to be a limit as setting no limit would make it too easy, but only allowing 4 kills before getting detected takes away from the fun that could be had if you had a larger amount of kills before it happens. On certain maps, detection will literally come down to pure luck, seeing as you can't clear out enough guards to easily stealth in and out, and could end up with more wasted time with nothing to show for it. It's not my cup of tea, but I understand some like it
@@twiztedmind209 Pretty much the issue I have with pagers. Even though we technically have 4, it might as well be zero for all the difference it makes. Generally speaking, players do not enjoy strict stealth, the old style where being spotted at all instantly fails you. As the pagers don't really pull it out from being strict stealth, there are really two types of stealth missions. There are loud ECM rushes, and slow quiet slogs where a single mistake requires a reset. Neither of these is a compelling stealth experience, one for being too challenging and the other for not being challenging enough.
@@twiztedmind209 payday 2 stealth is generally more about sneaking past the guards, not killing them.
If you like killing like that, do Scarface mansion. I think you'd like that alot.
@@twiztedmind209 agree with you 100% even the limit increased to 5 pagers per heist, stealth would be more enjoyable. One too many mistakes on a perfect shadow raid run with 24-25 bags could be ruined by crappy client side detection. Then you have to kill the guard and ecm rush with the one ecm you brought for this same situation. Pagers take out so much fun especially when you play a heist with a ton of guards like shadow raid or hell, even car shop. Not to mention you can’t carry more than 1 keycard in stealth/loud. TL:DR, 4 pager limit ruins stealth, it makes mistakes much more punishing.
Interesting that you highlighted Carry Stacker Reloaded seeing as I've abandoned that for years already haha - The weight per bag was very important for me to add, additionally to adding config options for each and every bag.
I don't play with it anymore myself and, as mentioned, don't develop it anymore for years, so there's that, but since I personally was only playing either solo or with friends (that were fine with the mod as well) I actually enjoyed the game more with it.
It also only worked if the host had it installed (due to desyncs when only the client has it installed if I remember correctly) so that's also the case.
But hey, to each their own - if people want to play with it? That's cool. If they don't? That's also cool.
As you mentioned yourself: This isn't PVP so you don't get that kind of advantage over others, but you still risk ruining the experience for the people you play with.
Still used ur mod to this day for solo stealths that have tedious loots of 20 bags n up that takes 20ish minutes it cuts it to half with the default mod setting with the weight system, thankyou for this
I love customization in mods
°
Wait, are you the same guy that made GTA San Andreas Chaos Mod? 0_0
@@MilesFox92 Yes :) And also The Quality of SoundCloud (though I'm not sure if that rings a bell haha)
I used Silent Assassin for a long time, because I am mostly a solo player and solo stealth is considered a challenge. And we all know what public lobby stealth is like. So as a new player going through the storyline, especially Breakin' Feds, I kind of needed it.
The irony of the situation is, though, while using it I slowly started avoiding getting kills, I was weaning myself off it while I had it installed. Now I can breeze through heists like Yatch Heist without it much to my own surprise.
Above all else, I say this: If someone is playing solo, you shouldn't care what they do. Hell, even if they host their own lobby, there's a tab with all their mods, you know what you,re getting into.
Now those that are not good in my opinion is the client-side cheat mods that work when joining other people. That is, what I feel Almir meant by "common sense"
Don't push it onto others, simple as.
Just want to point out that there is a mod that hides your mod list from being viewed by others, so you cannot trust that a public host has no mods.
From what I remember as well, there is one specific heist that the silent assassin mod can’t fully beat by killing everyone because it will eventually cause a invincible guard to spawn because this map was updated to stop the mod. It’s the final day of framing frame from when I looked it up.
@@XIIIRoxasKeyblades
I can personally attest that no. Oddly, in a few maps, additional guards spawn after a certain amount (Day 1 and Art Gallery usually spawn after the 4th and final kill, but a guard spawns every 4 kills regardless), and framing frame day 3 actually spawns a new guard when all guards are dead seemingly randomly whenever the game feels like it. By then he would usually either spot you running around the map thinking it's clear, using up one of your only two pagers, or spot a dead body you didnt bother cleaning up. Overkill has stated that they don't care for it, but they probably added it to give some stakes to the heist. Otherwise they could have just added a universal failsafe that if a 5th guard dies and the alarm wasnt tripped it would go to loud automatically. Much more efficient.
@@Meeryx4 There is a fact that on this map if you kill a certain number of guards vanilla style no mods that a inspector comes in for a little while. He’s the tricky one who will only be on the map for a short while but if you’re wandering around the map he will try to catch you off guard if you’re not careful and he always contacts HQ every once in a while so getting rid of him would probably definitely cause suspicion. It would be better for The player to just wait at the spawn point because he will leave the map after a little while permanently if he is not alerted to anything.
I use SA too because I realized that the pager limit is something Overkill pretty much only considered for release and every stealth heist afterwards completely ignored the pager limit in its design and made large maps with 200 guards and the reason they are so hard and unliked is because of that aspect. Playing with SA is just a fix that makes sense in context since a fucking dead guard cannot call a pager, and in gameplay since almost all stealth heists do not take the pager limit in consideration anyway.
I've actually played with some of those mods of the dark side, so here's some thought
If I remember correctly, both meth helper and better bots were made before the changes to meth cooking and payday 2's bots were put in place and because of that I used these 2 mods specifically A LOT. In fact, i've only deleted meth helper like a year ago.
Also I like that some of the "cheat" mods that have very customisable settings, like better bots (again), carry stacker and SA so you can actually make those mods a little bit more balanced.
Here's some examples.
You could theoretically remove "no pager activation if unnoticed" by switching the setting to 0%. This in theory will make PD2's stealth actually harder because you can limit the global pager or pager per player count. Reducing global pager count or making it the same but making it like 1-2 per player can increase stealth's difficulty.
While I didn't used carry stacker, if you can limit max amount of stackable bags and make you walk like you are carrying Almir's Toast when you're at limit, then carry-stacker can be a risk-reward mod. (apparently this is how carry stacker normally works if you don't tweak the setting to your own liking)
@Daemo Uchiha Also makes it a team effort rather than one guy doing everything
in my personal experience, Carry Stacker is *really* balanced out with default settings imo
there's 3 bag weights and you can only carry up to a certain total weight
which isn't fully an Almir's Toast weight, I'd say maybe closer to the warheads in Meltdown (I think that's the heist)
though I will consider tweaking my Silent Assassin setting after reading this thread
also holy SHIT abbreviating "Silent Assassin" (SA) is the worst thing out of context
just as bad as abbreviating "CyberPunk" (CP)
@@rydergolde3169 true, I legit initially thought the OP was talking about South Africa when I read SA.
Pretty much believe the same for payday as any other solo game; if you cheat and don't ruin the experience of others, then go for it. If you have the most fun with carrystacker or even an outright aimbot, make a private lobby with friends/offline and have fun. You bought the game, enjoy it as you want.
I just set it to public but i never hide my modlist so they can join while knowing what im using
It's interesting that most of the people who use these "cheat" mods argue that it's justified because the systems featured in Payday 2 are flawed or outright bad, and while I personally might not agree with most of these people, I hope Payday 3 is good enough to the point where players don't feel the need to use these kinds of mods to "fix" the game.
Great video as always Kknowley :D
As someone who ran a cheat mod for years (Pirate) they sometimes added in QoL changes in one package that made things nicer. Like the main reason I ran it was for the crosshair in the middle of my screen, which is now vanilla so un-needed now.
All modders i met were always nice and helping me out
Giveing me a ability to get quick money when i needed it
But i understand if some people dislike "cheaters" becouse they want the long run
I personaly dislike the grinding system in games becouse for example:
If i want to drive a m1a2 abrams in war thunder i would have to submit myself to either buying a m1a1 aim for over $100 or waste up to a year grinding a skill tree
I dont want to spend a year to drive a mbt or fly a jet, id rather have everything given to me imidietly and for it to allow me to experiment in the game and if im bored with playing one vechicle i can just imidietly switch to another instead of more grinding
For me people if they want they should be able to do both instead of being forced to waste time and/or money
@@fisewugp True. But you can use it as a backup when something goes wrong. For example, I used to have cheats installed, but only toggled sth when me and my friends were about to fail a long heist, and saved them. They never noticed, and at least they didn't rage quit and leave me alone xd.
@@hrznn sth? silent killer?
I run a few "cheat mods" because I only really play singleplayer and the bots are braindead
This isn’t really a criticism of your video but if your goal is to preserve these experiences for newer players, mods aren’t the issue to tackle.
Nobody is gonna let you stay in a Rats lobby if you blow up the meth lab and force them to do Day 2 without any drugs. They’re just gonna kick you and restart. Same for every other “special moment” in PAYDAY. If a new player in a public lobby tags the wrong truck in Election Day, they aren’t gonna get to play the Plan B bank heist - they’re just gonna get booted, probably sworn at too. Same with every other “puzzle” segment - pick the wrong fusion reactor in Big Oil, scan the wrong barcode in Hotline Miami, mess up the chems in Henry’s Rock - you’re just yelled at and kicked.
PAYDAY 2 doesn’t need lobby hosts running “cheater” mods to ruin these experiences for new players - the community does that just fine all on it’s own.
I wouldnt put it like that. Your expirience is dimply wildly different from some others. Personally I messed up a buncha times in payday and people let me stay. And then there were people who swore and kicked me for something as simple as my choice of primary weapon. What youre saying might be true in some cases- but a lot of the time its just not.
I’m a new player with 11 hours and not once have I been kicked mid game
@@ibeatmywifeandkids9084 11 h? That's still baby steps. It's gonna happen rather sooner than later. I have more than 1K, and I'm still kicked from lobbies from time to time
@@ibeatmywifeandkids9084 You'll get kicked from lobbies before you even finish connecting, happens to me often enough.
this is exactly the problem, theres literally no issue with the mods themselves but the players being dickheads most of the time
one thing i wanna note on the matter of adaptive AI, there seems to be at least one specific instance in the game where this is a thing! in particular, on GO bank, there is a fascinating feature to the cameras pointed at the tellers that actually alerts them if the tellers are missing; not just a thing of seeing the bodies or anything, but plainly them being gone from the counters. Tested this quite extensively by using jammers to block the cameras, and moving the tellers out of range to the back parking lot, along with dealing with any other civilians. When the jammers ran out, despite not a single death, they still alerted. It's a fascinating feature of the map!
I figured Silent Assassin was gonna end up in this video. With how controversial it can be, it certainly is up for discussion. I reserve it to when my friends and I queue up together just as a way to save time. Eventually with enough time the nuances of stealthing heists almost becomes a nonfactor. The only thing then ends up holding you back is guard pathing/timing. As such it's why my friends and I like having SA installed. We can still skulk around and chat like we enjoy, but we don't have to wait around for guards to stand around, and then we can potentially get more heists in before someone inevitably has to leave for the night.
I am really in awe of the depth and nuance of your opinion. Also I have never realized how eloquent you are at times. Keep up the good work my man.
God I love modding in Payday 2.
When I was younger, around 2015, I played about 700 hours legit, entirely vanilla. Nowadays, I dont have much time anymore and feel frustrated when I lose a 30 minute DSOD run because its just wasted time, not achieving anything. So I downloaded a few helping mods like SA, CS and XP bank and it made me fall in love with the game again. It made my experience infinitely more fun. I've completed every stealth heist on One Down legitimately before right when the difficult was introduced, so I dont feel like I robbed myself of any experience. Carry Stacker is just a huge time saver for me, disregarding a mechanic I never liked. XP bank also lets me actually play the game at full enjoyment, while also earning neat stuff along the way, without sacrificing one or the other. Oh yeah I also have no friends and public lobbies are always a disaster so solo play is my beloved :D
"Cheaty" mods made me fall in love with this game again, as a veteran. Though I COMPLETELY disapprove of people that dont know what theyre doing to get them.
As always great video brother keep it up!
I agree and have had a similar experience. After about 600 hours duo with my wife in private lobbies it got to the point where we would get so annoyed and frustrated when we lose an hour of gameplay to something. Installing BB,SA, and CA has really improved out enjoyment of the game
As someone who uses SA and CS. Bags are too irritating to manage. And just vanilla payday is just, repetitive. It soils itself quickly. And half the time I miss my shots and get detected pretty quickly
As long as it's being done in solo or just with friends, I don't see "cheating" as an issue. It's just you and/or your friends having fun.
@@protisteos9778 thankfully, all I do is solo at this point
would like to get in touch , maybe play with oyu hosting - what i came to hate about this game was newbies/ not noobs= im no hater joinng, as i didnt go ofline: my game and and faile the mission befor i could tell them about stealth and such - things that is pure logic, that is one of many reasons to my many hours of registration in game of PD2 ;)
hope tp hear ya voice ;)
It's always been funny how some people in this community get so invested in what others do with their own copies of a PvE game. Everyone who has purchased this game legally has the right to determine their own gameplay experience. Anyone who doesn't like this principle - which Overkill themselves have publicly acknowledged - will just have to deal with it.
Exactly
Only point on the contrary: If you do, do it in your own lobby. I've seen far too often that someone just randomly spawns 1000 bags of gold straight into the van. Frankly, grinding's half the fun, and if you do that in my lobby, I'll kick you & abort the heist. If you do it on your own, it's your call & I won't judge you on it; but I'd be pissed off if you ruin my fun for your progression.
@@DGARedRaven i think its more of if it doesnt effect others games its fine but people that do that are assholes I think very few people would disagree
"it's funny how people get upset that the mission they've been trying to complete was ruined by some asshole cheating and forcing the mission to be completed"
I don't give a damn about people who cheat in singleplayer games, beyond passive thoughts about how it's definitely depriving you of the "intended" experience - who cares?
But if you show up in a *online coop PvE game* and cheat? yeah, fuck off lol, I want to play the game, not join a lobby that destroys my progression
Makes me so happy to see how people are able to have and discuss such decisive topics in such an open and mature way!
i just got into payday 2 modding and made my medic bag a minecraft cake
Do you have a link or is it on modworkshop
@@shotasatellite796 it is on mod workshop
The Keepers mod family is almost like turning the bots into a bunch of noobs that you can order around as if you were teaching them the heist for the first time. Really cool work the dev did.
Personally, with mods and cheats in an atmosphere I’m pretty okay with it on three basic caveats.
1. I know what mods/cheats are used and who is using them.
2. They don’t effect my experience heavily (like you mentioned with the cheater killing all the cops on the map leaving you no target)
3. It doesn’t effect the game as heavily (IE a cheater throwing in 3 million bags of cash at the end of the heist)
I've been in the modding scene for years now and the two extreme arguments boils down to:
-Mods are cheating because it ruins the dev's intended gameplay
And
-Mods are not cheating because sometimes the dev's misdirection ruins the intended gameplay
Though like a lot of the poster child mods that are heavily debated, those mods do indeed make the game balanced, but they just took it to the extreme that it actually goes OP
There are really some mods become actual gameplay features because they did made the game better, like how Infamy 4.0's XP Storage was once a Mod called XP Bank
and so many weapon add ons that were once mods, fun fact remember when the MP40 was just a mod add on until the game actually put it in vanilla Payday?
And of course there's literal blatant cheaters, use common sense here
It all boils down to common sense, really. Just like that initial dev post saying what mods are good and which aren't, basically.
Dang I thought we were talking about “that” :(
RUclips won't let me...
After a whole 80 hours, I have only recently just reached Infamy 1. The only reason it took so long was my fault, because I always played on Normal until I was level 70-something, but after learning that just bumping up the difficulty by one or two skulls, the XP gain shot up exponentially. And that feeling of I have spent in total over three days and I have finally reached an Infamy level was unparalleled. That immense satisfaction was incredibly gratifying. After that, I became more confident in my skills, and I was bolder with my difficulties. Trust me, after playing over 70 or so hours on Normal, playing on Overkill is a hit to the adrenaline sector. And the difference of playing on Normal and going up one level every two or three heists, and playing on even Very Hard and jumping two or three levels every heists just empowers me to push the limit more and more.
What I'm trying to say is, if you're using mods to boost your level or Infamy, trust me, the grind and evolution you go through playing like normal, finding your personal default builds or guns, and just reaching Infamy levels one by one by your own hands, it could 100% be addicting, yet hundreds more times more fun.
wth, I'm level 64 and I do very hard+ (usually overkill). I would get bored to death playing normal for this such a long time
@@martinkrejci3687 I was having too much fun robbing the FBI to really notice lol. Payday 2 just scratches all the good parts of my brain
Why would you even play on normal? You literally cannot die on difficulty less than mayhem
@@vverbov22 I was a casual + carpel tunnel
Spare me lol
Agreed. When I did my first stealth heist on Mayhem. Oh lord, that XP and money...
I think the whole point of payday 2 mods can simple be equated to "if your concept of fun does not diminish others concept of it, then it's ok"
Pretty sure that bots throwing concussions wasn't actually a feature intended to make the bots even more helpful: it was to balance the mod, because fuck me if i've not been blinded more than the cops by the bot's grenades.
Yeah the fact that their grenades can affect players as well as the enemy units makes it "balanced" I guess.
Better Bots throwing conc grenades was intended to give them similar functionality to human players, not for balancing purposes. I also made a mod to keep surrendered cops and Jokers from being affected by concs as well, but I wasn't gonna include that in BB. It's on ModWorkshop somewhere, no idea if it still works.
@@Schmuddel can't believe you got r/woosh'd by a year old comment 💀
Payday's biggest sin when it comes to cheating has definitely gotta be branding you with the cheater tag for using steam library share
Is that seriously a thing? I'd never heard of this, but that's absolutely nuts.
well then im screwed
Really, i do this too in a Second steam account i have, and i never got tagged
I played payday from my friends account and my cousin played from mine throught libary share and none of us got a cheater tag
Nope. I've been playing payday 2 on an alt for a few years now, never got flagged.
PayDay : the hub for “mods”
My own standpoint on Payday 2 mods is "so long as you still are investing fair amounts of time into progression, you're good". Things like strong rebalances are fine if they don't just instantly give you a victory. "+" heists, adding more loot, are fair if you still have to work to secure it. But XP mods and money mods aren't fine, since they skip too many steps. Basically, what the Deep Rock Galactic community says is fair. I use things like the custom Blast Rifle because I love the gun, and I make sure not to try and trivialize the game with it. Granted, this is me speaking from the perspective of a dedicated solo player, so all of this goes out the window for online play. Just figured I'd share another take on the matter.
Yeah, like that one saying goes: "The fastest way to victory is not always the most fun"
i was not expecting fellow drg enjoyer rock and stone
as a + heist player. Half the time the game just crashes before I get in just making the effort redundant, cause my pc is about the equivalent to a potato salad on crack covered in monster energy
dont know if it was intentionally or not, but calling silent assassin SA and then dropping the line "non consenting heisters" was so funny and well done 👏
I love PD2 and i also like many mods for various reasons .
Mainly for fun , action and realism .
Having worked as a guard myself , i have to say that no one is gonna look for you if you get shot in the head , nor guards carry "pagers" all the time that detect any bodily functions or vital signs ( just a radio in the best - i had to use my own PERSONAL cell phone many times to communicate with the control room ! )
At best , they gonna call if you after 5 minutes ( again AT BEST - if the control room operators is actually looking ) and if you are not visible in any camera or if you do not report at specific intervals that may take even a whole hour .
So SA even makes the game look more realistic !
Plus , it adds some action to boring gameplay , like having to wait for minutes for the guards to clear a path and "RNG" gods to help you .
As a CoD/BF fan , i enjoy some additional action .
As for Carry Stacker , as a Payday:The Heist player , with hundreds of hours there as well , i really like the "get in , grab loot , leave".
First World Bank , The Diamond Heaist ...
In PD2 , it is more like "get in , carry this bag , go unload it , carry that bag , secure it , carry the other bag , drop it somewhere , and the other , toss it there , oh ! and this bag , don't forget that one too , and after we have learned the guards' paths and hiding places even from the first time we played the heist , and do the same thing for far too many times , it gets boring and tiring after a while , and after all this , leave" .
And i hate repetitve gameplay and grinding by any means .
Non existnt carry system in PD:TH was better than PD2 ( for me ) .
Also , ATM cash , in small bills worthDo ~390K $ in DS , weigh nothing but 230K $ in bank notes are heavy ?
WTF Overkill ? This is unreasonable .
Equipment stacker .
Do 2 keycards weight a lot to carry ? Hell no !
Then why do we need a mod for doing so ?
It should be implememented in the first place .
( i know , iknow ... it is an intentional feature to promote public co-op gameplay but it is highly illogical )
I remember when I introduced my friends to payday 2 modding
We were still sorta new to the game(only getting it in 2021 spring) and I showed all my friends how to mod it with the idea of music and hud mods mainly but I showed them the blast rifle mod as I felt it was a cool concept and a ex-friend of mine proceeded to use it exclusively and when their mods broke and they couldn’t get the rifle mod working again constantly complained saying the game is “unplayable” now because they tunnelled on the reckless play style it gave with how OP it was with its life steal paired with stoic
I play solo, I had fun doing the Payday Restoration mod, I think the game is about having fun, if having a challenge isn't fun for someone, they should be able to make it easier.
7:25
I honestly really like the idea of this. In Payday 2 Mobile they have a multiple bag grabbing system which is determined by weight, so different loot bags fill up different amounts in your inventory, and there is also a hard limit. It honestly just made heists feel so much less tedious and fun to do.
I usually don't have a problem with others using "cheat" mods. Since the game isn't PvP it rarely affects my experience, and besides I am usually told what mods the host is using before I join. Some of the gameplay altering mods I have enjoyed in the past are things like- No pagers on stealth kill or no pagers on subdue. I don't like having these mods always enabled but it does shake up the game experience every now and then.
I feel like the no pagers on stealth/subdue makes sense from a logic/realism standpoint but I feel like it makes stealth more properly balanced/challenging
Tbh it relates to even the concept of other stealth games, Hitman (both being great and with its challenges) gives people a sense of attempted perfection or various methods including chaos. Peple in payday would do similar or just otherwise any method makes the game with its beneficial freedom. Yet partially considered underrated for the years overkill has been through.
@@liltjuskilledme3181 it actually makes no sense form a logic standpoint cuz fall detection pagers are a thing irl
Honestly i have never cheated in payday 2, however i have installed wolfhud, i personally think that the game looks 10x better with extra hud and showing how many cops are left in the assault or time etc also ammo amounts and other just straight up upgrades that hud mods add, is well worth the install. i played on ps4 for about a year and then got it on pc and have played for about a year on pc now aswell.
As a fellow wolfhud user, I whole heartedly agree. It just makes the game easier to understand really
news flash, thats still cheating lmfao. if it wasn't in base game and it HELPS you play better it is cheating. simple.
@@ziplineskee7514 cool. As someone who doesn’t use mods. Who cares lol
@@lojika1majik so then this convo literally doesn't apply to you at all, modding is cheating, get used to it bud
@@ziplineskee7514 1. would you say mods that increase the difficulty further are cheating?
2. Would you consider mods that change enemy cosmetics to something like the bulldozer becoming kawaii cheating
3. Payday 2 is a casual cooperative game. People use mods like Wulfhud to make it more enjoyable. If they still have to earn their wins, ‘cheating’ mods or not, is it really that big a deal? This is why I said who cares lol, because it isn’t a big deal.
4. There is a big difference between something like Silent Assassin, (which attempts to balance its design out by reducing total pagers) and duplication of bags.
5. Would you consider the old crime spree exploit cheating? It was an unintentional and borderline broken trick to skip to level 100 instantly, allowing players to effectively skip to max infamy.
6. Even if you still think mods are cheating, look at the steam workshop. Many more are *in favor* of mods more that not. Because it changes the core experience or tweaks the original. Eg: Silent pagers changes the way players stealth and the core experience of stealth. Wulfhud just makes the game more fun for some. Effectively, it’s *maybe* an easy(ier)mode for Payday 2 in the extreme, but players can just play on normal to get to the exact same point.
Here are my thoughts on gameplay altering mods:
As long as the other people in the lobby are aware of it and okay with it and the cheater doesn't do anything drastic, like as you said killing all the enemies or spawning 500 bags of gold, it doesn't really matter in my opinion. Yeah, it might ruin the user's first time experience with something, but in the end they chose to use the mod that ruined it.
How about we ditch being judgemental about the way people play with toys altogether
I think bag stacker should be looked at better, if you use it right, you can make it so your mobility changes depending on how many bags you have and their weight. Bags have weight levels, with meth and paintings at 1 and big oil at 5. This means that you can carry 5 paintings and be at the mobility level of big oil, or maybe 2 money bags being as heavy as gold. I know the mod allows weightless bags but I think my idea should be the default for bag stacker.
Your ides its the default system, but you can still modify the mod
@@NA-uz7co no, default is 3 bags, and at 3 bags its heavy as shit even if its paintings. i like his idea though
yh even if something should be changed ur idea is good, might aswell be a new skill or perk they could add
SA is such an interesting topic.
On the one hand, yes, it is ABSOLUTELY easier when used; you can clear the entire map in stealth after all, something that the pager system seems entirely built to prevent.
On the other hand, the vanilla stealth system is just... Terrible. Preying on guards from the shadows and slowly taking control of the situation by removing everyone in your way is a) how most stealth games function, and perhaps more importantly b) very much in line with the heist aesthetic the game is going for - competent, ruthless criminals who are willing to leave a trail of carnage to get what they want.
Personally, I have SA enabled every time I do a heist *unless* I'm with friends who aren't explicitly up for it. I also use Better Bots and haven't touched public lobbies in... I think at least 5 years at this point, however.
I mostly play the game as a chill-out game; a horde shooter or a simple stealth game, and the mods I use push the game in that direction. I think that's the most important thing - tailoring the mods you use to suit what you want from the game.
I'm not playing the game to challenge myself and get prestigious achievements by taking on the hardest difficulty, I'm playing the game to face some pushback but ultimately be able to come out on top with whatever I use, and so I play Mayhem/Death Wish with OP bots, OP stealth mechanics, and whatever weapons/skills/perk decks (including modded ones of each) fits the style of gameplay I want at the time.
Mods of any kind become problematic when they either negatively impact someone else, or they remove gameplay from the game. SA and Better Bots, among others, change the gameplay significantly, but ultimately tailor it to what you're seeking. Then there's stuff like Pirate, that just... Remove it entirely. That ain't cool (though I will admit I used it to get Infamy III once, after my save file somehow got wiped. That's a special case; you couldn't pay me to grind out 400 levels when I just wanted to load up and skirmish at Lv100 which I'd already reached legitimately)
I'm considering GETTING SA, have been for a while, I got the DS OD achieve, even before DS was a difficulty and was just OD, I got the mask, got the cheive, got the statue which I lost because I reset progress cause I got bored. Back when Alaskan Deal was new, because I knew more heists were coming, and I wouldnt bother to do those and make it harder. Sure it removes the challenge, but that's sorta what stealth is in many video games, like for example, far cry outposts. You can take on everyone silently, removing risk of getting caught, and as reward, more xp and no reinforcements. Some shit payday 2 pulls is cheap, from big bank being straight harder than nails before even getting into the inner sanctum, same with first world, and whatnot. Like when I take on stealth, I want to be rewarded for my efforts rather than JUST an xp bonus. If I have a loud build, it makes sense it makes loud easier. If I have a stealth build, it makes it easier, but it doesnt make it less stressful as would a loud build with loud. So that's my stance
I wanted to get into stealth a lot more, but with how restrictive things are, it was really unapproachable to me and my friends who all do enjoy stealth. It was hard to learn around and with many stealths that we couldnt get into at all. I know its a massive skill issue, but I really hope they take a different approach to how stealth is handled for PD3.
I don’t even play PayDay 2, but I was recommend one of your videos and I’ve been digging your channel. Love the Content man!
This video truly inspired me.
I now have Astolfo texture packs on every possible surface in the game
I've personally only used xp mods when I first moved to pc because regrinding my progress from my console days had no appeal, and would've caused a quick refunding. I also exclusively play solo or with friends that have the same mods
some of these mods should become official for Payday 3. HUD info mods could be skill bonuses, like drill skills let you see how long it lasts.
Carry stacker could be added aswell, being that every bag you carry on yourself, you lose movement speed. Your weight limit is like 15/15 (20/20 with skills) and a bag of jewelry is like 2 blocks of weight, so you can carry 7 bags. 8th bag would make you stop entirely, but theoretically you can keep grabbing the bags, you just can't move.
I used XP bank before Infamy 4.0, that's why i'm now Infamy 114 within such a small timeframe, i was called out alot for cheating my infamy, but i'm glad it's now official, i can go infamous rather quickly now.
About carry stacker. Just like u said it is great idea and it's already there. It's called Carry stack reloaded
Great idea. Or maybe allow up to 3 bags, 1 on your back, and the other 2 in each hand. So I can carry 2 bags with a pistol, or 3 without any weapons. Which would be a logical tradeoff in stealth.
I love carry stacker reloaded defaults setting it makes the game so much fun while not feeling to cheaty
@@hrznn that one seems like a very good idea
love how exp bank mod got added into game offically
I'm honestly a fan of Silent Assassin because I'm way too panicky to even attempt stealth with friends or offline. In my case, by making stealth that bit easier, I actually enjoy it more than the vanilla experience and now have more levels that I can play without suffering
Great video though, keep it up Knowley
The pager system never really made sense to me, like why is this guy suddenly calling the guard i just killed, does the guard press a button to alert the operator before dying or something? Or is it just a routine check up? Either of those options just dont work out logically to me but silent assassin makes one of those explainations feasible
@MiquShiro my lore is the guards use "dead man's switches" that monitor vital signs and send signals to the pager operator when there is no vitals or motion detected, I've seen correctional officers use them before, and I assume they are more common in high security facilities like the FBI offices or the shadow raid warehouse, where the payday gang would hit
@@YourFridgeIsRunning Ive never seen or heard about that before, thx
I made a mod for myself a long time ago that added an almost unlimited number of sentries… But I never did it on higher difficulty heists.
The only reason I used it (and never released it) was to jump into a heist and see what wacky spots I could get the sentries into.
I never even finished the heists, never played online with it, it was fun. But this was years ago… way before story mode was even a thing.
And out of curiousity, I did try my hand at adjusting enemies, specifically disabling taser’s tase and a cloaker’s kick. It worked, but it was more of ‘Could I’ so I never used them after.
Edit: Medics weren’t even in the game at the time so I never tried them and neither of the ‘mods’ I made were released or used online except with 1 friend at the time who didn’t mind. The sentry one specifically but toned down to just buff the sentries and maybe add another one or two.
Aka, consent is important. Don’t play public games with mods like that.
Dude your mod for the sentrys would be a really good change for the game, you could even balance the mod with a coold down between new sentrys. Why not you ever upload your mods? It can give other lots of fun
Honestly, as long as you don't ruin anyone's fun...do whatever the hell you want, it's just a matter of everyone being understanding of other people
Aka don't play multiplayer unless you're with friends and they're all okay with it
I remember years ago, probably somewhere between 2015-2018, on my first and only, so far, run of Shadow Raid (I quit playing when I was still a noob and only a week or two ago came back to the game, currently barrelling through career mode) one guy on the crew spawned 200ish bags of loot right in the drop-off point. Got so much money from that I didn't know what to do with it.
To this day, despite having "completed" the heist, I couldn't even tell you its main objective. So I appreciate this kind of vid, good stuff.
I think a balanced variant of "carry stacker" could be an actual mechanic added to the game, especially as a means of restoring some viability to armor builds on the higher difficulties, specifically by giving them added utility. Maybe if you ace Ironman, you don't just get the ICTV, you also get the ability to carry two bags at once, and you ignore the speed penalty for the lighter of the two bags. The catch is that you wouldn't be able to jump if carrying something light like cocaine anymore, and you would be unable to draw or use your primary weapon until you throw drop one of the bags, limiting you to your secondary weapon and melee attacks.
On the subject of cheating in general, I agree you shouldn't do it in multiplayer, but I don't give a rat's ass if you do it solo, or in a lobby with friends. I know you'll disagree with me, but Payday 2 can be an unbalanced mess at times, and some people just get so frustrated that they'll run a cheat just out of spite. Death Sentence on loud is basically a bullet hell game with hitscan weaponry, and for most people, that's not a fun time. Stealth isn't immune to this either, as I can tell you that while the game's come a long way with fixing game-breaking bugs in stealth, the game's stealth is certainly not on the caliber of Thief, Hitman, Deus Ex, or even a simpler stealth game like Metal Gear Solid (hell, even the Far Cry games have better stealth in some ways). That's not even getting into how a lot of heists are just objectively poorly designed (i.e. Lab Rats), or haven't aged well due to changes in the game's balance (i.e. Panic Room). I don't think requiring you to be a masochist just to finish a part of a game, rather than some obscure and counterintuitive achievement for pure bragging rights, is good game design, and the refusal of the devs to go back and fix some of these broken heists only gives further incentive for some people to cheat
Moreover, it can be cathartic as hell to just feel like you're a god for a few minutes after a long day of work where you've dealt with lazy coworkers, an ungrateful boss, and even less grateful customers, but not many games give you that option built-in other than by simply turning the difficulty down. It's why I don't fault people for playing on the lower difficulties in video games, or even if they cheat in single-player games, sometimes you just want to relax (I'll still mock "journalists" who complain that even this isn't easy enough for them instead of actually learning how to play the game though).
I'm really, REALLY late to this, but there is this Roblox Payday knockoff called Notoriety and I think they balanced this idea quite nicely.
In the Technician tree, the 2nd to top row, a skill called Carrier Pigeon can be aced to let the player pick up 2 bags at once. You get a speed penalty for carrying 2 bags, you can't jump if both bags are considered heavy loot, but even just one player having the skill aced can drastically reduce the tediousness of moving bags. It also gets another balance due to the game having a stamina bar, so that speed penalty really hurts.
Of course, the unintentional side effect of having a skill so broadly useful is that nobody will want a build without it.
@@DaLazyRat That's why I suggested locking it behind Aced Ironman, that way people might try making armor builds rather than the usual dodge/armor gate crit builds that dominate higher difficulties. It requires significant skill point investment to get at all, so you'd either have to spec for armor specifically or make a compromise to other parts of your build if you insist on running the 2-piece suit for crit builds instead.
So I’m curious if you heard about the stealth part in the restoration overhaul mod.
If you had checked it out in the past I recommend rechecking it out.
The short version is that stealth has less instant fail factors(similar to silence assassin) but instead various actions will fill up a “stealth meter” that will trigger a countdown to stealth failed. And all this also scale with difficulty too… well better then base game at least.
There are many more smaller changes that it does. But seriously, I recommend trying it out if you haven’t touch it in a year or two. I never liked stealth because it was always either too easy or too hard but this made stealth feel more fun while still being a challenge.
There's a ton of grey area as to where and when gameplay-changing mods morph into cheats as well. For example, I think it's perfectly fine for a solo stealther to use a carry stacker (within reason) or even cheat in an extra pager (tell the game not to register the first pager you answer) since, unlike with loud, playing stealth as one person is objectively much harder even with bot boosts.
This is a view about mods i can agree but also believe is the ideal mentality for any people that desires to use them. Complementing your experience in a way you like, without compromising others is basically you being respectful. Im so glad this is being brought up. I never played Payday but i got it free from steam a while ago and now im tempted to give it a try.
Keeping things a challenge is certainly important when picking out a selection of mods, but sometimes spicing things up can be fun. With silent assassin in particular, I'm quite fond of actually having body bags be useful in stealth as well as being able to take on larger heists with a reasonable amount of guard takedowns. With just four pagers, you don't get a lot of wiggle room to do heists in stealth and with how corpses glow with the power of a thousand suns it can be near impossible to lock down an area with multiple patrolling guards without something going wrong. Having the option to take out guards quietly, while also lowering the amount of times you can make a mistake and just answer a pager makes for a far more compelling solo stealth experience to me, since otherwise it just results in resetting the moment you get spotted since you can't really answer two pages at once if they're far enough away from each other. Likewise having bots behave in a smarter fashion or allowing the player to know what the next ingredient is can just help to iron out frustrating parts of the game for players that don't have a full crew of highly trained veterans looking to ace every heist. It really is a case of just tailoring the experience that provides both you and the people you're playing with the most fun experience. If it's fun, go for it. If not, don't. And don't ruin the experience for others by blatantly cheating in online matches without consent. Otherwise, what's it matter if a mod makes things somewhat easier? If something is frustrating, it isn't fun, and fun is the point of a video game. Rather appreciate the video, taking that viewpoint on things.
I have a similar sentiment oddly enough, but I can definitely understand why people would only consider the same kinds of mods as definitive cheats. However, I feel like there's another mod that could be guised in a similar light and it's the 'Spawn More and Faster' mod. Its settings allow you to change how many enemies there are in loud and I'd most likely assume most people are using it to lower the enemies to make loud heists easier since you can change how many individual special types there are as well as how many spawn in a wave, and how many can spawn before a force kill mechanic is activated (which honestly isn't a bad idea for lag reasons).
Personally, I use it to increase the amount of enemies, as the name suggests, since I feel like there isn't enough enemies to completely murk with my builds or go down in a blaze of glory. I don't use it on one down or the higher difficulties since, well, you know, it's still pretty difficult to solo even after almost 2k hours and the right build (I'm talking the notoriously difficult ones, Goat Sim, Bomb Forest, etc...), but it's also pretty easy and tempting to lower the enemies to breeze through the level. Although, I have to admit I do occasionally lower the enemies and give in to the temptations, especially when I'm not feeling it. I love this game and have done pretty much everything, I just want more challenges and unique ways to play, and this mod definitely brings more challenge to loud, obviously if used the same way as I've described.
If you have this mod, a decent PC and friends, I would highly recommend setting the enemy count higher, like 200-300s because this is just really goddamn hectic and is a blast with friends, even if you don't manage to finish the heist. Do prepare for some lag tho lmao. Sorry for the length, had to get it off my chest haha.
My advice when wondering if a mod is cheat or not
- don't act dumb
Hope you appreciated my choice of music ;)
@@TheKknowley i did
@@TheKknowley also i was wondering what's your opinion on mods that add crosses in the middle of the screen ( to help with hitting headshots while hip-firing)
@@Dadallas805 I mean they added the motion dot recently but I can still see value in crosshairs. It's another example of something the game does poorly but modders do so well, hard to argue against their use!
Here's my take on modding in Payday 2, And for the record, I only recently picked it back up, after not touching it for like 8-9 years
Most mods exist to address a problem in the game that someone has, for example, meth helper is to deal with the frustration that is waiting for bains instructions. peronally, I think all meth heists should have only have bain/locke struggle the first few bags, after the 3-4th bag, get your shit together.
and the custom perk decks are something that can let the devs know there's a hole that can be filled in the future. Mods, if used right, can improve the game AND in my opinion, be very useful tools for the developers to know what they should look out for when updating/creating new content. does that mean use the most busted shit? no.
And just for one last thing, anyone who plays minecraft, pistons, horse, those came from mods. Sometimes a popular mod is just the kick a dev team needs to implement it officially
Right, I'm gonna say my piece here when it comes to Payday 2 stealth. I think it's main problem is not the mechanics of the game that facilitate stealth, but the randomisation of elements of the level that makes you have less control over a level than what other stealth games offer. Stealth games strive for consistency of item, guard, camera, and civilian placement, deviating from that becomes an exercise in frustration for the player because you feel like you're being tricked, not that you've solved the puzzle. Payday 2 has multiple permutations of spawns, so is it any wonder mods like S/A exist to "balance" the playing field? That said, I don't really have much sympathy for those who use Silent Assassin, but I do appreciate its concerted effort to at least try to give people more options. Same with Carry Stacker. If the mod was limited to two bags, then I don't think it'd be nearly as problematic, but because it isn't, it causes issues.
As always, a great video and a fantasic, nuanced take on Payday modding as a whole. It's rare this side of modding gets talked about.
Tbh limiting it to a certain number wouldn't really fix or prevent cheating. Maybe for layman's sure but it really doesn't take much effort to change the values in the Lua file.
i cannot agree more on silent assasin
it fixes a bad part of stealth being pagers, however as you said, when you understand the guard patterns it becomes way to strong.
Because once you remove the guards from the map, what else is there that can catch you? Cams would normally be out due to the cam operator being dead, and you can prolly just gun down the civs
then again, if your just dicking around with your friends go nuts with silent assasin lol, and hell. IMO as long as it is just you and/or friends messing around go nuts on like SA and CS.
Exactly how I feel about it as a user myself. And in online I always check with people who join.
Honestly it's fun to play around with sa in small maps making it 1 pager and pager threshold as 10
I used to use two of the mods mentioned here. Carry Stacker and Silent Assassin. But, ONLY ON OFFLINE!
Carry Stacker because I usely play offline and having to carry hundreds of bags back and forward was a pain. SIlent Assassin because... there's no excuse, I'm loser of Stealth :V But, I recently removed this two because I honestly need to improve on the game legit, and this mods I considered training wheels, that I had to stop using at some point. "Better late then never" as those fucking Cloakers say, right? However, no shame to those that enjoy using both (unless you use it online, with people that just want to have the normal experience and thinking you are hot shit with it. In this case, I hope your offshore account gets cleaned and your Infame levels revoked).
hornostly - online - people most often dont know what it is or that you youe it and even so, it doesnt have to be used in game, so joiners can just keep on carry one bag or kill 1/4 guards as intendet with out ever realising your using those mods, UNLESS they run a mod tracker and decides to or auto kick you as a cheater - for just this little reason than have no effect as your not the host ;) - would love to play a game or 2 with ya ;)
I wish carry stacker just made you use the default settings because i find the default settings are balanced well with the weight stacking The more loot you can carry and I feel like a lot of people overlook that and I hope payday 3 has a similar system
It ks just much better let pepole decide how to balance the mod, so everyone can have fun
The Almir Mod is so well made because Almir is a great Guy and the Community is very grateful that he stayed with Overkill troughout all its Ups and Downs so far, so he only deserves the best.
Love payday mod related videos! Keep it up!
So i actually just cheated my way into a few infamy levels and money. After that i deleted the mods. I simply wanted some infamy so i can run builds i like with more perks and buy more of the weapons and attachments without having to worry about continental coins. I had a lot of fun before and i still have. Im just running much more varied builds now in a lot of occassions. I think these money mods or xp mods arent generally a bad thing, but i do think someone new into payday definitly shouldnt use them. I had 280 Hours of playtime before i used a single mod and i do think if i had cheated my way out of conquering my first difficult heist it wouldve massively subtracted from the experience.
I think I first used mods around 2500hrs and I did use silent assassin 1 time only to complete the white house but that's because of a bug where at a random point into the job one of the guards near spawn would seemingly have a heart attack and die which obviously ruins stealth. Only time I used it again on jobs was to have a bit of fun with a kill all situation on maps like big bank but never completed them when I did that. Later down the line I stopped using it completely because the non-cheating side of sa such as the lower pager count option I found in a mod called stealth mutators. In this mod it does give a boost to the stealth experience bonus but it can definitely make some jobs extra difficult if you choose to. If you want you can make it that killing a civ sounds the alarm, killing the cam guard does nothing, make pager, civ phones and cameras ignore ecms and shorten the lifespan of trip mines to where they practically disappear after you put them down if you want to.
I did the same, except before using these mods i had played for around 500 hours
Maaan, that thumbnail intrigued me and the lack of discussion of those kinds of mods disappoint me.
Great vid mate. I still use better bots and found the secret was to tune them down as much as possible while retaining flash grenades.
I will eventually use SA just so I can make Golden Grin a ghost town :)
Played Payday 2 for 30 hours originally and was sick of the game played another 20 got back into it. Modded Payday 2 - never removing them. Any idiot that calls the mods 'cheats' in a PVE singleplayer/co-op shooter is simply an idiot. The point of mods since their inception has been to modify a game to the players liking. I don't like this mission = fix it yourself, that's the point. I hate Payday 2s stealth mechanic, I think it's one of the worst I've played therefore silent assassin 'fixes' this issue for me and makes stealth fun. The most important part there being FUN if I can mod a game to be more fun I will.
I've never seen a game so conflicted in its own fan bases creativity in keeping it's game alive and enjoyable to a wider audience. Literally every game I have modded or created a mod for has always welcomed modding whether it's a cheat mod, balancing mod or meme mods. This Idea of people 'cheating' has weirdly birthed from a bunch of people needing to prop themselves up at a higher standard and justify their own time investment as if they have achieved anything. Payday has no gold medal, there is no best player or most skilled player, Infamy rank literally means nothing other than how long you've put into the game and even that isn't true as I have Infamy 100 with only 150 hours because I wanted the cosmetics.
There is no 'Cheating' in the negative connotation only shaping the game to your liking and the difficulty in the game that people seem to want to lord over being able to beat without mods is nothing but artificial difficulty anyway. Difficulty isn't a matter of how difficult something is only how long it might take you and that's common for a lot of games.
Long post I know but it's a topic that's incredibly important for the games industry and I feel many in the Payday community might be a bit on the stupid or ignorant side and might need to play other games that allow modding freedom. I've been modding games for many years now and never encountered this kind of stigma aimed at modders. (A friend of mine has been creating mods for as long as I've known him and his work has lead to him moving abroad and landing a job in games development, Modding not only allows people to change and adjust a game to their liking, it also allows the betterment of peoples skill and knowledge of the games industry)
When playing Solo I use to use better bots. But since they buffed the AI i dropped it. However when I'm doing solo offline I will occasionally throw on carry stacker but will keep it to where I can just carry 4 bags of money or lighter loot, or 3 bags of gold, scaling up to 1 for artifacts. More to cut down repetitiveness that dulls the heist. On top of that I HAVE A TON OF CUSTOM WEAPONS, but I stick to the more balanced ones.
I don't use betterbots but I do use keepers/monkeepers. In solo play transporting bags is just painful and monkeepers feels like a semi-legitimate solution for it. After all 4 players could do the exact same thing. I also like having bots able to do objectives cause running around doing literally everything solo is just painful at times. Actual combat upgrades for bots I don't care as much about though
Great, level headed perspective. Refreshing.
mods has helped me have fun with the game even with mods as simple as HUD ones
Dudes be like: HUD mods are cheating
My brother in christ you just can press 0
What does that do?
@@thebushbros6626 toggle your HUD being on or off
@@Glue_Eater06 oh ok
When I've reached 100 hours-ish gameplay time, I started to download many mods (HUD and cosmetics). I love those mods so much but I had one bad experience.
I've joined a public lobby of stealth (forgot which heist) and we played as usual. After that heist, I queued for another lobby then I got labeled "cheater". Panicking (of course), I found out that the previous host uses "Silent Assassin". Then I searched around the internet just to remove the "cheater" label. Of course, it was because I didn't have the achievement yet (so I "cheated" my way for the achievement). So yeah.. it ruins Silent Assassin or just "difficulty tweaking" for me (at that time, I played Payday 2 just with cosmetic mods and HUD).
Sorry for rambling too long. English isn't my first language so forgive me if I've made a grammatical mistakes.
I remember my biggest mod pack had Silent Assassin and customizable Pager options. I played with friends and i was doing a lot in the options. I made silent assassin activate the pager if above 50% detection was done and modified the pagers so that one player could answer only once. It was a great experience to try out and that system was pretty nice. Then when 2 friends stopped playing me and the other man in my crew modified the pager mod making it 1,5 pager per person giving the second answer a 50% chance to trigger an alarm. It was hella fun that way.
In GTA online it is a necesaty to be at a higher level unless you want to get kicked out of every heist lobby.
With pagers I always felt it was the guards watching the cams noticing guards missing their patrols and calling them, hence the responses with reasons referring to delayed patrols. If pagers get tied to cams, and cams get harder to take out, I feel like it could make silent assassin good(imo)
Ive always thought it was because they hit the button of the pager when falling on the ground, so they’re asking what happened
For me its pretty simple.
1. Does this mod negatively affect the enjoyment of others
2. Does this mod positively affect my enjoyment
With over 1000 hours in payday, if a mod can help me squeeze some extra hours of enjoyment from the game then I'm all for it.
"Can you beat Payday 2 as The Sniper" sounds good ey
I couldn't have said it better myself, great video Kknowley.
If you wanna cheat, by all means go for it. As long as you're not hindering other players, that is.
The "carry x amount of bags" mod, for example:
Hell, I mean, who wouldn't wanna rob the warehouse in shadow raid in one quick, simple go?
Or even better, who wouldn't wanna save their precious time by not having to carry every bag individually?
Or, another good example, silent assassin:
It's a stealth gamer's wet dream. Beeing able to just nuke the entire map of enemies by playing good feels, well, good and rewarding. I do, however, see why Overkill only gave us 4 pagers, it just makes things way to easy once you've cleaned the map.
All in all, like I said, go for it if you're only playing with bots, but goddamn if you do so, leave the other players alone
This. I have no issue with pointing out cheaters who make the experience of other players worse in public lobbies, but do we seriously have to guilt solo players for using mods that make the game easier? The argument for "even if you cheat solo, you're still cheating yourself and robbing the experience of playing the game the way it's meant to be played" sounds excessively pretentious. Some people don't have the time to restart a stealth heist 5 times over because usual PD2 RNG screwed them over, some people don't have the time to move every bag one by one only to fail the heist and have to re-do all their efforts once more. Hell, what about the people who are physically unable to actually get good and use cheat mods to make the game easier? People with slow reaction times, people who are busy with children and jobs day in and day out?
At the end of the day, it is still a video game, and guilting people who have purchased the game with their own money and telling them that the way they are playing the game is incorrect and a stain on their enjoyment feels like these people doing the guilting are taking PD2 way too seriously.
I personally believe that as long as you have fun with a video game, then all is good. If you have to cheat to make it fun, then who really cares?
when i do use sa solo (once in a blue moon) i usually make it like 1 pager but like 5 detect so it still takes some amount of skill clearing them (unless u just snipe them)
The only "cheat" mod I use is Carry Stacker, and even then that's offline with default weight settings. It gets annoying playing a bag throwing simulator instead of a horde shooter, and it also feels more realistic to be able to carry around a few bags of meth that weighs a few grams at most.
I use Carry stacker but I just put it in default, still don't know why they keep calling me a cheater when I'm literally nerfing myself
i love how the thumbnail said "naughty mods" for payday and in the beginning he said "no, i'm not talking about those mods", referencing the naughty stuff.
Approximately 2 years ago (while I was II-100), I stumbled upon a cheater in a Crime Spree. They raised my crime spree to 50000ish and that crime spree gave me huge xp, money and continental coin bonus. Although money is not a problem after infamy 5, they ruined my Continental Coin experience. I don't need any coins, I never had to grind, do daily missions or use one of the worse attachments because I didn't have the better one.
I use carry stacker on offline and stealth only options. Having to carry 25 bags of money in Golden Grin after killing all the guards that can spot me is not risky. In loud you always have to use resources (ammo, health, throwables, time) while carrying bags and always have a risk to fail the heist. In some stealth heists (FWB and Golden Grin being the worst offenders) it is just bag carrying simulation in a safe environment and have no risk whatsoever. Before downloading carry stacker I remember quiting after getting in the vault in FWB because I didn't want to carry bags twice in a safe environment.
In Shadow Raid, bag carrying is always risky and carrying bags safely is one of the main parts of the heist. If I used Carry Stacker in Shadow Raid I would be ruining the experience.
TLDR: Using cheats on others is bad, using carry stacker on yourself may ruin or improve your experience.
I personally do cheat in pd2, I've played the game for years and just eventually got bored and figured I might as well as I had nothing else to do. This has been the case with other games for me as well. I've always had fun myself but I make sure if people play with me they know that I am cheating (there is also a tag in front of my name that says that I am cheating). There has been
I use Better Bots. But i’ve set the health and dodge above average. I felt it was unfair otherwise.
i’ve been playing payday for years and silent assassin has made going back and playing stealth missions in a whole new way, feels like some john wick stuff and it’s super fun on your own to be a badass killing machine making your way silently through a heist. i understand why people dislike it and that people do abuse it but it’s a very customizable mod that with the right settings can be a fun and interesting new heist
Something I like about mods is that they let you make the game into what *you* want it to be. And yeah, sure, some of these would definitely take some of the challenge out of the game (Silent Assassin - thanks for showing that by the way, I am definitely gonna try that out). The thing is though, not everyone plays games to be challenged, for me I'd say just messing around and having fun with the game is an ideal, but I'm also a much more casual kinda player. Also solo only, since I don't really have that many friends (and greatly dislike playing with random people in co-op games), so I don't have to worry about ruining anyone else's experience.
Betterbots is perfectly fine to me. The inherent nature of the mod means you're not affecting other players. It allows players with bad internet to actually enjoy the game above Mayhem.
The most important thing Betterbots provides is consistency. No one enjoys losing a heist because a bot drops a bag, or because they don't revive you, or because the online players you're with are trolls / cheaters / bad.
It's also important to note that Betterbots does not carry you if you don't know what you're doing, even with the most insane modifiers for the bots. One Down is still the tough slog it always is. No amount of bot improves will change that.
Yeah, to me Better Bots is fine. I run it because I find the bots underwhelming in a lot of ways base game, and it vastly increases the fun factor of the game for me to have it. I keep most of the settings from it off though since I find a lot of the things you can do overtuned. I just want my bots to not have reaction times slower than a snail, and to help me move bags and not take 3x longer because I'm solo.
Thanks!
This video is already sounding dope! I play on xbox one, ik ik collective sigh. But I'm having the same experience because I'm not new to the game but I've never infamyd or completed DS/OD missions. But I've been having a blast Learning the perfect builds for all kinds of missions, learning the heist, going infamy and then trying to math out how and what heists I'm gonna complete while lacking a lot of skills! It makes the learning feel a lot more personal as does the growth and in so many ways, this is a game you don't wanna rob yourself from enjoying by cheating. Even small cheats are still Cheating You more than anyone else
the carry stacker gave that payday the heist bagging feeling not gonna lie
As someone that has crappy internet, I LOVE betterbots, I don't have them super sicko strong, but the little additions it gives is so nice. This is also coming from someone that can't stealth worth a crap.
I would rather just mess around and shoot hordes of enemies alone than ruin someone's experience due to crappy ping.
I've only ever gotten in the modding huds, two songs (bury the light yes PLEASE), inverted flashbang (because good god flashbangs on a 24 inch screen is a nightmare).
I very much agree that mods can be amazing blessed tools, but they can be backfiring weapons. Your stance is a very good one I support.
As a solo only player, I use better bots and carry stacker to fill in for the lack of player characters, I use normal settings and only ever carry 4 bags at once (I know you can put bags on the ai, but thats janky and cumbersome) I wouldn't call that cheating per say, but I can admit that some heists are way easier with better bots
better bots and CS are both cheat mods as they replace skill
I 100% agree. Those mods are practically a necessity for solo players.
It's only really cheating if you're going to just use it to make yourself OP. QoL mods like that are very "use it, don't abuse it"
@@Bayonet_Silver the mods with tweaking aren't a cheat with drawbacks but cheaters use them to get unfair advantages by turning on all options
@@Bayonet_Silver
"skill"
>Moving 30 bags when the heist is done and there's literally 0 risk of fucking up
They replace tedium, better bots replaces Online since some have shit internet (but hey some spoiled first world city brat wouldn't know that problem)
I havent used mods before, but ive considered HUDs and damage numbers mods just to help me keep track of changes to my personal status as well as how powerful my gun is as a visible reward for effort.
I legit thought I was gonna see some spicy sydney and joy mods. Thank god it was just this.
i just think everyone is entitled to their own experience, but if your mods alter the fundamental part of the game, it should be in a private lobby
methhelper is great for speeding up the cooking process and not wasting half an hour of cooking because someone remembered bains instructions wrong
silent killer is fun but also just a power fantasy
huds are ok, i think base game should have most of those features anyway
bagstacking i can only justify for solo golden grin or when doing overdrill
Honestly I think that Carrystack, Better Bots and Silent Assassin are mods that aren't inherently cheating *with base settings*, but are abused by the players who use them.
Then again as long as they aren't using them in public lobbies I don't really see the problem with these types of mods, or even the busted OP perk deck mods.
Cool man, in fact I use all the mods that you mentioned LOL, except Huds
Silent Assassin became a *must-have* when it came to me and my scrub crew hunting achievements to access The Secret, and I don't know if I can ever go back.